Getting the most out of the Prometeia.

[bldegle2]

Have mine up and running for about 3weeks now, been through all sorts of settings.

I increased the cooling slightly by adding extra washers to the screws, more spring tension, tighter contact with CPU surface equals lower temps, not much, but a couple of degrees C*. It took about three days for the temps to drop as the chiller head took a 'set' to the CPU. Doesn't really help with higher clockage, but it sure can make a difference with that last setting that works about 98% of the time, making it 100% stable.

Next phase will be to file a very small amount off each stand head, maybe only .25 mm, again, just barely enough to increase the chiller head pressure by allowing the tops of the stands to insert just a small bit further into the chiller holes when the screws are tightened down. This along with the extra washers are all that can be done mechanically.

Are there any other tweaks that will assist in getting the CPU temps down any further, such as adjustments to the chiller controls, especially the fans used for cooling the returned hot freon???

Just trying to get the most out of the setup. I have read the manual over and over again, and although it touches on all the control functions, I am still in the dark as to what to change, how much, which one.

I am particullary interested in increasing the fans speeds so the chiller head will knock down a few more degrees on a constant basis.

What I am trying to do is max the cooling so I can rest peacefully with a vcore of more than 1.95, a setting I have set as a limit right now for the clocking I am doing.

I can get more, but the temps shoot up a bit, cold boots cutout the first try (wait about 90 seconds, then refire, it works when that sequence is followed, but what about the summertime??).

So far, this has been the easiest major mod I have completed, they really have these systems well worked out, all I am trying to do is tweak it a bit more (clocker's mentality).

Any and all tips would be nice, I would then compile the information, possibily making a sticky out of it when all worked out, if the mods are so inclined.

I know these coolers can be tweaked, there is no way they are running 100%, a margin of saftey had to be built in.

Still, I think running @2.85 gig is pretty much a gas, and with a proper CPU, 3.0 gig everyday is right there, AMD wise.

Clock on.

baldy:p

[mike.elmes]

Hi Baldy,

Did you end up filing down the metal stands ? I was looking at doing the very same thing. I have the same cpu and am going to try it in an abit kd7 first before moving on to one of the nforce boards. I am also looking to mod the prom somehow,but was thinking the recharge with r404a route if the compressor will handle it.I may contact chipcon regarding this ist though.

mike

[bldegle2]

filed a bit off the stands, it helped some more, with temps. hard to tell at first, i have found the chiller head needs to take a 'set' after reassembly, so it is usually two or three days before you see any significant drops, that is why i kept a log when i first got her running, nice for comparisons later.

i am too, thinking about changing to r404a, and extra 8/12*c or more cooler at the head is significant, and under load it should work even better.

baldy:p

[mike.elmes]

I found a place that has the r404a in stock. I know the vapochill is charged with 65 grams of r134a , but I'm not sure about the prom. I will have to poke around to find the correct charge for the prom. I wonder if they can just measure the amount as they bleed it off ,before recharging the system with the 404a ?

mike

[DisposableHero]

Originally posted by bldegle2
filed a bit off the stands, it helped some more, with temps. hard to tell at first, i have found the chiller head needs to take a 'set' after reassembly, so it is usually two or three days before you see any significant drops, that is why i kept a log when i first got her running, nice for comparisons later.

i am too, thinking about changing to r404a, and extra 8/12*c or more cooler at the head is significant, and under load it should work even better.

baldy:p

i dont understand what you filed off? and what do you mean by taking a "set" after reassembly? thx

Nick

[TPR- Darwin]

Originally posted by DisposableHero
i dont understand what you filed off? and what do you mean by taking a "set" after reassembly? thx

Nick

On the plate that you bolt on top of the cpu, there is 4 little 'feet', I too sanded them down a little.

[DisposableHero]

Originally posted by TPR- Darwin
On the plate that you bolt on top of the cpu, there is 4 little 'feet', I too sanded them down a little.

you mean that square thing you put around the socket? thats the only thing i know has feet

[bldegle2]

with the Prometeia, you have two metal stands that come up from the clip plate that attaches to the ziff socket, these two stands take the allen screws when the chiller head is positioned over them and they are machined to a specific height allowing for supposedly proper pressure on the cpu core.

by filing a micro amount off, and adding washers to the springs device on the allen screws, one can increase the pressure ever so slightly to the core, improving heat transfer even more than normal.

the set i am talking about is the rubber seal that is getting compressed upon reassembly, it is pliable but takes awhile to really compress completely, and i have found out the temps take a day or two to drop to the lowest they will get.

to help with this, i took a tip from another post and stretched the sealer string so it was thinner, thus making the compression easier upon reassembly, i even recycle the stuff, it can be reused over and over again.

hope this explains what i wuz talking about.

baldy
:cool:

[Tom Holck]

Originally posted by mike.elmes
I found a place that has the r404a in stock. I know the vapochill is charged with 65 grams of r134a , but I'm not sure about the prom. I will have to poke around to find the correct charge for the prom. I wonder if they can just measure the amount as they bleed it off ,before recharging the system with the 404a ?

mike

The prommy have 58 grames of 134a.
404a is actually a blend of 3 differant refridgerants..r125 44% /143a 52% / 134a 4% these together make up r404a.boiling at -46.6c .now this stuff is great but it puts off alot of heat in the exchange (compression)process.

You have to sug it all out, before putting the R404 on. Don't put to mutch on, less than 40g, witout modding some!! other things.

It work well on the europa-model of the Prommy!! The Us model at 60mhz/110 Volt might not make it, you then by another prommy, and thy again.

same hardware: P3.04 IT7Max2 v2 corsair3500c2

Prommy 134a : 3910 mhz
Prommy R404: 4002 mhz
Prommy R404, also longer capillærtube etc: 4094
:banana:

[DisposableHero]

so the evap. temp would be warmer

[Bravo]

Just a quick question, would an R404a modification to a Classic Model vapochill increase performance? Is the BD-35 compressor compatible with such a gas? What would it cost?

Theres a serious lack of performance cooling down under Aus (with the Prommie costing more then 1600 AUD, or 700 USD, excluding shipping for the stand alone unit), and regassing my vapo with something more powerful looks to be a cheap way to improve performance :)

[Tom Holck]

Originally posted by Bravo
Just a quick question, would an R404a modification to a Classic Model vapochill increase performance? Is the BD-35 compressor compatible with such a gas? What would it cost?

Theres a serious lack of performance cooling down under Aus (with the Prommie costing more then 1600 AUD, or 700 USD, excluding shipping for the stand alone unit), and regassing my vapo with something more powerful looks to be a cheap way to improve performance :)

The classic vapochill is to week to do anything but a134
The modification on new Vapochill and Prometeia are complikated and expensive.

[Bravo]

Originally posted by Tom Holck
The classic vapochill is to week to do anything but a134
The modification on new Vapochill and Prometeia are complikated and expensive.

How so?

The PE features the BD-40 if im not mistaken.

[ZubZero]

Of course you can do it with the VapoChill compressor. The question is not if the compressor is weak, its merely a question about the engines power VS compressor (cylinder) volume.

Filling it with R404a requires a big starting torgue as the inside pressure is higher. It would be more likely that a large compressor will not be able to run with R404a.

After reading a thread over at vapochill forums (I think it was a Norwegian who did it originally) I got my BD35F compressor charged with R404a - they used a sort of glass to fill it, so I don't know the exact amount. In idle it cools to -34'C but under full load my CPU temperatures equals my Prometia. Even at full load I never saw temps above -6'C on the core. The few MHz difference I sometimes saw in speed before, is also away. I can reach exactly the same speeds with both, and it ourperforms my PE as well...

So actually the best and cheapest compressor system out there, would be a SE and have it charged with R404a - a 450$ power house :D It does consume a bit more power, but not more than my PE is doing anyway, and it's still only 1/3rd of the Prom.:D

[Bravo]

Interesting...

What amount of R404a did you fill your BD35 with?

[Tom Holck]

Originally posted by Bravo
How so?

The PE features the BD-40 if im not mistaken.

It vas the Vapochill Mark I

[TodB]

Originally posted by Bravo
Interesting...

What amount of R404a did you fill your BD35 with?

Yep, I wanna know the same thing :D

[ZubZero]

Actually I'm not 100% sure, as it was a tech who did it. He used a kind of glass to fill it... He told me he charged it to run at -40'C idle though :D

Both the VapoChill classic and the SE runs with the BD35F and the PE with BD50F. There is no such thing as a BD40 ;)

[Bravo]

If the BD35 can be charged with R404a, what possible damage am i looking at?

[Tom Holck]

Originally posted by Bravo
If the BD35 can be charged with R404a, what possible damage am i looking at?


a new compressor! :frag:

[Bravo]

Vapochill Link (http://forum.vapochill.com/showthread.php?threadid=1404)

Im already in a position to need the thermal bus extended further then it already is. I believe i will go ahead and investigate the possibility of having the BD35F charged with R404a.

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by ZubZero
In idle it cools to -34'C but under full load my CPU temperatures equals my Prometia. Even at full load I never saw temps above -6'C on the core. The few MHz difference I sometimes saw in speed before, is also away. I can reach exactly the same speeds with both, and it ourperforms my PE as well...

Well if an R404a Vapo equals an R134a Prom, then this is the way to go :


Originally posted by Tom Holck

Prommy 134a : 3910 mhz
Prommy R404: 4002 mhz
Prommy R404, also longer capillærtube etc: 4094

[ZubZero]

Didn't fill my Prom with R404a, so I don't know 1st hand results with that combo. However my VapoChill SE with R404a gets just as good internal CPU temperatures as my standard Prometeia under full load - not too bad for a cheap system like the SE :)

[DisposableHero]

we should have OPP do it.. he has the crazy hookups and should be easily able to get a "test" prometeia :D

[bldegle2]

explains how to lower temps without changing any settings.

i was thinking of changin over to R404a, but i am now worried about compressor life span.

anyway, read my thread, it is quite interesting.

i am now able to actually bench @15x199, haven't tried the 200, it will run the 200, but any heavy benching will just kick out to the desktop, doing burnin again right now.

clock on.

baldy:D

[full loaded]

I am searching for r404a to.
couldn't find some plase to get the gas and full mijn prometeia whit it.
do you people know witch kind of shop I have to search for thinks like this?

[jon_win_xp]

It works :)

http://home.c2i.net/w-201899/forum/vapo/404/1.6/cpuid1.6.gif

http://home.c2i.net/w-201899/forum/vapo/404/1.6/404tmp.gif

[full loaded]

Originally posted by jon_win_xp
It works :)

http://home.c2i.net/w-201899/forum/vapo/404/1.6/cpuid1.6.gif

http://home.c2i.net/w-201899/forum/vapo/404/1.6/404tmp.gif

hey ware can I let my prometeia full whit R404a and howmutch G does work the best?

[TodB]

Originally posted by jon_win_xp
It works :)


More info on this? :eek: ;) :D

[jon_win_xp]

http://www.ocshoot.no norwegian page :)

[TodB]

Originally posted by jon_win_xp
http://www.ocshoot.no norwegian page :)

DAMN! :D
I can hardly get a single word ;)

[DisposableHero]

can anyone translate that? lol i dont think babelfish does norweigen...

and does this work for prommie!?!?!

[Twat]

Vapochill: OcShoot say that they use the weakest of the vapocompressors http://www.ocshoot.no/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=000072;p=1 (here) + they used some kind of manometres to fill it :confused:
And that they got more to show maybe the stronger vapo compressor ? They have also made a new version of the chillcontril program

Prometeia: they also say that the prometeuia cpu kit cant handle more than it does today without a upgrade. They did refuse to test the first prometeia which had no heat element in the back because they saw that the tech. was inadequate to prevent condensation. WHICH I KNOW FIRST HAND :mad:

They r also not very impressed by Oppainter that never mentionded condensation wit prometeia before he did a test of vapochill

[Xenogias]

Since R404a produces more heat in the comression process I was thinking about integrating (submerging) the condensor in a reservoir as part of a dedicated water cooling loop with 2 BIX radiators and 120mm fans. What effect would this have? Same as extending the capillary tubes? This would be for a prometeia btw. Is there any advantage to chilling the compressor ala cascading systems, or would that only be useful for refrigerants that put out even more heat than r404 in the condensation process?

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Twat


They r also not very impressed by Oppainter that never mentionded condensation wit prometeia before he did a test of vapochill

I guess they didn't keep tabs on my every word then :D

Here's a public statment I made about condensation back in September of last year on the Prometeia.
http://overclockers.com/articles618/index06.asp

And By the way, your link doesn't work.

OPP

[jon_win_xp]

Corect Url to OcShoot.no forums :) http://www.ocshoot.no/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=000072;p=1

[OPPAINTER]

Nice :)

To bad I can't understand a word of it.:D
What language is it, and is there a Proggy that will translate it??

OPP

[JCviggen]

A Vapochill with R404a is about the equal of a standard Prometeia ... an R404a Prom however is in a league of its own ;)

Those OCshoot guys crack me up btw... I'm one of their all-time enemies, and basically they dont believe a single thing I do or say :D

[jon_win_xp]

It`s norwegian.
I have tryed out a few engines now to translate but its no good.

Welkome here is translated with welcome does not hit ?
in Norwegian Velkommen hit

[jon_win_xp]

Hi JCviggen

Se you Have tryed your Prometia with P4 with good results.
what 3DMark score did you get ? compare link ?

[jon_win_xp]

hehe tryed Overklokking the Hole computer in a frezzer MB -2 ?

http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/20021216/p4_41-04.html

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by jon_win_xp
Hi JCviggen

Se you Have tryed your Prometia with P4 with good results.
what 3DMark score did you get ? compare link ?

P4 3.06 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5300380 (was the top score from early december to early februari I believe)

XP 2100+ (1733 MHz), this was not a maximum run, just for fun ;)
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5988989

and the stupid 3D 03 http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=249084

However, the OCshoot head guy figures my results must be fake, since he cant get them :rolleyes:

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by JCviggen


However, the OCshoot head guy figures my results must be fake, since he cant get them :rolleyes:

JC, what kind of crap did they say about me??

OPP :D

[jon_win_xp]

i have the ekstrem 3DMark03 here :) hehe not musch to compare with

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=198688

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
JC, what kind of crap did they say about me??

OPP :D

not sure, but my understanding of this "NilsG" guy is, that he reckons I am bought by chip-con, and that basically anyone who would take the Prom over the Vapo and say so in a review, would be biased or bought. He compared the vapo SE to the Prom, and could not get a better OC with the prom. then the whole condensation thing etc... he once claimed I actually used LN for my benches and screenshots lol

I think he probably thought the same about you until you did a favourable vapochill review ;)

I like Norwegian ppl as a whole though, just that guy needs to learn how to seriously overclock instead of whine about not getting the same results. Sorry for the rant but that bloke has been on my cap for a bit too long

[Dissolved]

JC, Can you clean you pm's out? i need to ask you somethin =)
thx

[Twat]

Originally posted by JCviggen
not sure, but my understanding of this "NilsG" guy is, that he reckons I am bought by chip-con, and that basically anyone who would take the Prom over the Vapo and say so in a review, would be biased or bought. He compared the vapo SE to the Prom, and could not get a better OC with the prom. then the whole condensation thing etc... he once claimed I actually used LN for my benches and screenshots lol

I think he probably thought the same about you until you did a favourable vapochill review ;)

I like Norwegian ppl as a whole though, just that guy needs to learn how to seriously overclock instead of whine about not getting the same results. Sorry for the rant but that bloke has been on my cap for a bit too long

Where did he write that ? I also saw in the www.overclockers.com forum that u were accused for using nitrogen by another promm user but cannot find it at the www.ocshoot.no forum ?

Ocshoot do safe overclockin with no extreme voltmod and so on - they are doin reviews and no sirkus :)
If they get time sometime to play sirkus they have 3 vapochill and a prometeia . And besides they sell nitrogen onluy 5 minutes from where he live he says.

sorry for my §§§§ty english :D

[jon_win_xp]

NilsG have today Thrown in the Glowes.

He anounsed today that the site is going down on Wednesday :(
He is sik and tierd of §§§§ from other sites :( Espesialy from http://www.overklokking.no


So too you all NilsG is Done with http://www.ocshoot.no

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by jon_win_xp
NilsG have today Thrown in the Glowes.

He anounsed today that the site is going down on Wednesday :(
He is sik and tierd of §§§§ from other sites :( Espesialy from http://www.overklokking.no


So too you all NilsG is Done with http://www.ocshoot.no


sad to hear that.

But in all honesty, he seemed to me like a guy who took offense to anyone who thought differently than himself... which is maybe not the perfect attitude to manage a site

still, sad to hear

[jon_win_xp]

he have argued with this site 4 over a LOng period of time.
@worst they put his site inn the Metatag to get more hits on their own page.

this was the 1 and the best OC site in Norway.
so too us it is a BIG loss