old skool fast rides

[8bit]

What are your choices amongst the golden oldies? :confused: :cool:

Datsun Zed (http://zhome.com/History/432Z2.htm)

Firebird (http://www.er3.com/firebird/67firebirdT.htm)

http://www.frankspontiacparts.com/20580e00.jpg

[Newbie_User]

Damned good choice 8bit ;)

Is that a Chevy on the picture?

I'm not too good at american oldies.

I would say :

Saleen cars
Shelby cars (Cobra/GT 350/GT 500)
'Cuda series
Plymouth Superbird
'vette
Mustang

[ToxicBug]

Some quick american sleepers to the untrained eye:

GMC Syclone
GMC Typhoon
Buick Grand National and GNX

Oldschool quick cars:
Ford Escort Cosworth
Mazda 323 GTX
Mazda MX-3 with a KLZE
Mustang 5.0 HO
BMW 850i
BMW E34 M5 (eurospec)
BMW E30 M3
1G Talon TSi AWD and same spec Eclipse and Laser
Honda CRX with a k20a2 swap :p

[[XC] leviathan18]

ferrari f40
mazda rx 7
toyota supra
nissan skyline
ford gt500
lamborghini countach (sp)

[ZX7891]

64 belvedere with the 426 hemi and 2 4bbl carbs damn,..its soo badass

http://www.1962to1965mopar.ornocar.com/nick64.jpg

[ciento44]

How oldschool fast are we talking?

I'm a big fan of Oldsmobile "442s" even though i don't know much about them.

For a little less old school, i'll go with a Ruf CTR "Yellow Bird."

For early 90s, i'll go with a Celica AllTrac.

[K.I.T.T.]

Pontiac GTO

[Rukee]

Pontiac GTO
I own a `65 GTO, 90% original, Factory Tri-Power, close ratio 4-speed. 5:81 gears, tinted windows, teal wood stearing wheel and gear shift knob, everything is in excellent condition and we drive it all the time in the summer time.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/gtoside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/gtoinside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/gtounderhood.jpg

after I put new Cragar SS rims and huge back tires on it this last summer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/GTO.jpg

[K.I.T.T.]

I own a `65 GTO, 90% original, Factory Tri-Power, close ratio 4-speed. 5:81 gears, tinted windows, teal wood stearing wheel and gear shift knob, everything is in excellent condition and we drive it all the time in the summer time.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/gtoside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/gtoinside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/gtounderhood.jpg

after I put new Cragar SS rims and huge back tires on it this last summer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/Rukee/GTO.jpg
Sweet ride man!! :cool:

[snq]

Fast and fast... Does ~120mph count as fast? ;) For me it's more the acceleration that gives the kick tho.

I bought a Volvo 244 Turbo a couple months ago in need of some fixing up. It's an -81 flathood, only 46 of those left in Sweden which is kinda cool. Pretty much the whole car needs fixing up, I'm going to build a garage next summer so I can be inside while doing that.

I estimate that it leaves somewhere between 180-200 HP (original is 155 without intercooler, mine has a larger turbo and intercooler), haven't tested 0-60 yet but I did buy a g-tech so I'll let you know once the snow is gone ;)
I have lots of plans with the engine, but that'll have to wait until I have built my garage. I'm aiming for around 250 HP to start with.

A friend of mine has a -69 Charger 440 and he thinks our cars will be a very close match when it comes to acceleration :D Haven't tried that yet because his car is in a million small bits now for a complete renovation.

Anyway here's what my baby looks like right now.. Only thing changed is that I put the hood on again and put a cover over it for the winter months. (btw not me on the pics)
http://gallery.volvo240.org/d/1779-2/PA100141.JPG
http://gallery.volvo240.org/d/1783-2/PA100142.JPG

[mnewxcv]

ill take a shelby cobra
81 yenko camaro

http://www.yenko.net/features/MW-TZ-big.jpg

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/190/2450/640/ac_shelby_cobra_427_replik_2002_blau_l.jpg

[Stewie007]

I was gonna say... is anyone gonna mention a Yenko?!?!

[Rukee]

[pics]
I think I see that screwdriver I borrowed you.:woot:

[snq]

I think I see that screwdriver I borrowed you.:woot:
Hehe yea my backyard looked like a garbage tip that day.. More than usual that is :D It was my friends fault, he drops whatever he has in his hands as soon as he thinks of something else. And he admitted it ;)

[ToxicBug]

IMO a fast car is something that runs 13's and lower. Quick is 14's.

[8bit]

Re car above was the Firebird, but here is the Chevy Camaro version.:cool:

Early Camaro 1967 (http://www.camaros.net/years/67/newcamaro.html)

In television the Knight Rider car KITT was supposed to be fast,...200mph with turbo boost.:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/Timbuk2/best_picture_ever.jpg

[Soulburner]

I would have to say my favorites were the birds, but I may be a bit biased :cool:

[K.I.T.T.]

In television the Knight Rider car KITT was supposed to be fast,...200mph with turbo boost.:D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/Timbuk2/best_picture_ever.jpg

WTF you think my username stands for? ;)

BTW - 298 MPH in super pursuit mode :D

[perithimus]

The 427 yenko vettes were quick. Cuda with a 426 Hemi. 1969-70 Boss 429 with the 429CJ.

[mnewxcv]

camaro zl1

[i_jester]

65 lemans convertible - my baby.
Getting a 400 pontiac stroker next summer - 550hp

http://www.nthtechnologies.com/graphics/BerniceNew0001.jpg

[mnewxcv]

65 lemans convertible - my baby.
Getting a 400 pontiac stroker next summer - 550hp

http://www.nthtechnologies.com/graphics/BerniceNew0001.jpg


come on, give us an action shot! ;)

[CanadianTSi]

IMO a fast car is something that runs 13's and lower. Quick is 14's.

You must have alot of Honda's around :D

A fast street car would be low 12's and faster, any slower than that and it's just quick :cool:

[ToxicBug]

You must have alot of Honda's around :D

A fast street car would be low 12's and faster, any slower than that and it's just quick :cool:
How many production cars can you name that run low 12's and cost under $100,000?

[mnewxcv]

How many production cars can you name that run low 12's and cost under $100,000?


2006 corvette zo6 is $65k and does the quarter in 11.5
2004 cts-v is $50k 12.2sec
2005 crossfire srt-6 $45k 12.4sec
any dodge viper

[ToxicBug]

2006 corvette zo6 is $65k and does the quarter in 11.5
2004 cts-v is $50k 12.2sec
2005 crossfire srt-6 $45k 12.4sec
any dodge viper
Those cars aren't oldschool and the Viper isn't under $100k.

[Rukee]

How many production cars can you name that run low 12's and cost under $100,000?
My 40 yr old Muscle Car will!!


@ i_jester Nice vert!! and the same year as mine!! Sweet!! You should go for the Tri-power set-up on that stroker motor.

[ToxicBug]

My 40 yr old Muscle Car will!!


@ i_jester Nice vert!! and the same year as mine!! Sweet!! You should go for the Tri-power set-up on that stroker motor.
Is it 100% stock?

[mnewxcv]

Those cars aren't oldschool and the Viper isn't under $100k.


we were talking about hondas a second ago, and the viper is under $100k.

[Rukee]

Is it 100% stock?
all sept the paint and rims and tires, yes sir it is!!



and it freakin flys for a bone stock car, it`s what the whole Muscle Cars were about. The GTO was the GodFather of all Muscle cars, it was the one they were all trying to catch!! The first one to stuff the biggest big block motor they had into at the time, the smallest body they had and a whole new era was born!

[fatfreepork]

viper is around $85k, z06 corvette does 0-60 in 3.4.

im a jdm guy (nissans mostly), but if i had to pick an old school car, i'd choose a challenger, chevelle, camaro, 'cuda... in that order

[[XC] leviathan18]

old school for me is nsx LOL

well i love the shelby gt500 and perhaps any foose creation

[CanadianTSi]

I wasn't talking about stock cars...

[Rukee]

old skool fast rides were stock cars! :p

[i_jester]

Bernice is not stock anymore, although I have every stock part.

The suspension has been redone. New spindles, springs, a-arms, front and rear sway bars, converted to '84 camaro front disk brakes, lowered 1-1/2" in the front, 1-1/4" in the rear. Underside of the car was completely stripped and repainted, the wheelwells have been recoated in undercoating.

The wheels are Weld Wheels, One piece Billet Aluminum, 17" X 9" rear, 17" x 8-1/2" Front. The interior is almost completely stock. All new vinyl, all the glass is either new or perfect, not a single nick. New carpet, the top is 5 years old, and the electric top works perfectly.

Engine is the stock 326, with 130,000 original miles, with the stock 2 speed automatic tranny.

I replaced the broken steering wheel, installed aftermarket kickpanels with focal speakers in them. I have an Alpine deck mounted in a custom enclosure I made for the glovebox. The trunk has a enclosure with two 10" subs, and a custom pontiac cutout with a blue neon that lights it when you open the trunk, and the stereo is driven by a JL Audio 300-4 under the passenger seat.

I have documentation of every single thing that has been done to the car since day one, including the original 1965 title and build sheet.

[thE-maEsTrO]

This is heaven

http://digilander.libero.it/hfalex/colle.jpg

[thE-maEsTrO]

HF integrale ......

http://www.riminituning.it/img/bott/rally/bolidi/foto_max/evoluzione_3max.jpg

[thE-maEsTrO]

sorry the last...

http://www.omniauto.it/awpImages/photogallery/2004/3377/photos/delta_012.jpg

[Rukee]

Bernice is not stock anymore, although I have every stock part.

The suspension has been redone. New spindles, springs, a-arms, front and rear sway bars, converted to '84 camaro front disk brakes, lowered 1-1/2" in the front, 1-1/4" in the rear. Underside of the car was completely stripped and repainted, the wheelwells have been recoated in undercoating.

The wheels are Weld Wheels, One piece Billet Aluminum, 17" X 9" rear, 17" x 8-1/2" Front. The interior is almost completely stock. All new vinyl, all the glass is either new or perfect, not a single nick. New carpet, the top is 5 years old, and the electric top works perfectly.

Engine is the stock 326, with 130,000 original miles, with the stock 2 speed automatic tranny.

I replaced the broken steering wheel, installed aftermarket kickpanels with focal speakers in them. I have an Alpine deck mounted in a custom enclosure I made for the glovebox. The trunk has a enclosure with two 10" subs, and a custom pontiac cutout with a blue neon that lights it when you open the trunk, and the stereo is driven by a JL Audio 300-4 under the passenger seat.

I have documentation of every single thing that has been done to the car since day one, including the original 1965 title and build sheet.
Sweet! I`d realy like to convert mine to disk brakes too, but I hate to take away from the originality of the car. I redid the suspension with new bushings and springs and ball joints, but left the original drum brakes. For the rims I went 15x9 in the rear and 14x7 in the front. I like that raked look too.
You wouldn`t have to lower the front end if you`d just drop in a big block. ;)

[speed bump]

My daily driver is a 68 mercury monteray, pretty much all stock although I am going to an igniter ignition soon with an MSD box.

Otherwise my dream car is a 70 chevelle SS.

or a 69 dodge charger.

Also stock old school cars that did 12s Corvettes with either ZL1's or LS1 or LS6's Camaro's with the same engines.

Also dozens or muscle cars are capable of these times with modern tires.

[i_jester]

Originally posted by rukee

You wouldn`t have to lower the front end if you`d just drop in a big block.

Aha. A non pontiac guy. There is no difference between a small block and a big block pontiac. They are the same.

[Soulburner]

Aha. A non pontiac guy. There is no difference between a small block and a big block pontiac. They are the same.
Pontiac had both small and big block engines.

[funkflix]

http://www.mbnz.org/gallery/pics/12_1449496_41200544115AM.jpg

560SEC

[Rukee]

Aha. A non pontiac guy. There is no difference between a small block and a big block pontiac. They are the same.
The LeMans only came with the 326 2bbl.
The GTO only came with the 389 4bbl or Tri-Power.(optional 421 from the dealer)
You could not buy a LeMans with the big block or a 4bbl.
You could not buy the GTO with a 326 or a 2bbl.
Also the 389 had alot of high performance features like oiling thru the push rods rather then thru the rocker arm stud like the 326, screw in rocker arm studs instead of the press fit ones like the 326, also the 389 had a clutch fan, the first Pontiac to run one.

[i_jester]

Physically, the Pontiac 326, 350, 389, 400, 428 and 455 are basically the same size and weight.

You might want to do some research before talking.

http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/pontiac/0209PHREMPontiac/

[mnewxcv]

http://www.mbnz.org/gallery/pics/12_1449496_41200544115AM.jpg

560SEC


AMG?

[Rukee]

Physically, the Pontiac 326, 350, 389, 400, 428 and 455 are basically the same size and weight.

You might want to do some research before talking.

http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/pontiac/0209PHREMPontiac/
Research?? Please, dude, I`m an auto tech!! There are some similarities, but they are different. Besides the ones I already listed, the bore, crank, heads, cam and lifter, intake, distributor, fan, oil pan, rear axle are all different. The parts ARE interchangeable, but the Le Mans engine is NOT the same as the GTO. You might wanna do some research before talking, or simply ask some questions maybe. ;)

[i_jester]

Originally posted by rukee

Research?? Please, dude, I`m an auto tech!! There are some similarities, but they are different. Besides the ones I already listed, the bore, crank, heads, cam and lifter, intake, distributor, fan, oil pan, rear axle are all different. The parts ARE interchangeable, but the Le Mans engine is NOT the same as the GTO. You might wanna do some research before talking, or simply ask some questions maybe.


I have been working on Pontiacs since 1979. I do know what I am talking about. I never said anything at any time about the GTO and the lemans having the same engines. I am not even sure why you brought it up.

I was talking about the post that said I wouldn't have to drop the front end if I put in a big block. I was making the point that there is no big block. The terms 'Big Block' and 'Small block' are for engines that have physically bigger and smaller engine blocks. Pontiac is not one of these. That has nothing at all to do with the displacement of the engine.

Dropping a 455 in would not change the stance of the car one bit as the weight is basically the same as the other engines.
Duh.

[Mr. Manka]

best old school ride is either the 70' Chevelle LS6 454

or the Yenko SC 69' Camaro.

[Rukee]

I have been working on Pontiacs since 1979. I do know what I am talking about. I never said anything at any time about the GTO and the lemans having the same engines. I am not even sure why you brought it up.

I was talking about the post that said I wouldn't have to drop the front end if I put in a big block. I was making the point that there is no big block. The terms 'Big Block' and 'Small block' are for engines that have physically bigger and smaller engine blocks. Pontiac is not one of these. That has nothing at all to do with the displacement of the engine.

Dropping a 455 in would not change the stance of the car one bit as the weight is basically the same as the other engines.
Duh.
Duh righ back at yeah.
At the time, they didn`t use the same engine, you could not get the same engine in both cars, to get the big block in a `65 Lemans you had to order the GTO option.

If you`ve been working on them that long you should know the lingo. Even though they may have been the same block, which they weren`t even the same block, yes you could bore a 326 out to a 389, 400 or 455 but they`r not the same as they were released from the factory. Build and date codes etc. The difference in the Pontiac small block and big block was it`s displacement and the high performance heads. The 326`s were called a small block and the 389 was called a big block, you can argue size and specs all you want, doesn`t change what the factory or dealers called them. Pick up any old Pontiac book or GTO book it`ll tell you the same thing. You`ll never see a `65 LeMans listed with a 'big block' from the factory.

[8bit]

Chrysler Corp,...quality you can trust!:fact:

Aspen R/T equals snazzy.:toast:

http://geocities.com/magnesium_/78rtad.jpg

[funkflix]

AMG?

Could be, dunno. Maybe only optical tuning. :)

[Susquehannock]

While it's true they were not the fastest cars off the showroom, I have always been partial
to the late '60's GM muscle cars.

Pontiac Tempest GTO - Oldsmobile Cutlass F-85. Both '69's. :D

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/9145/dway10xy.jpg

The GTO has '70 400 Ram Air 3 block and '67 400 H.O. heads, 4-speed Muncie manual tranny, and 3:55 12 bolt rear
from a '71 Chevelle. Engine completely balanced & blueprinted by yours truely of course. Could pull off
mid 12's if I shifted right. Had it set up for the street more than the track as you can probably tell from the rear gear ratio.

The F-85 is pretty much stock - 350 Olds Rocket engine and 2-speed Jetaway auto tranny.

[Susquehannock]

Hmmm ... I can see the usual misconceptions about Pontiac engines preside here - big block/small block :rolleyes:


Pontiac had both small and big block engines.
Nope. If you place a 301 and 455 block side by side you would soon discover they are the same
size external casting. If anything the Pontiac V-8 can be described as an "intermediate block".
i_jester explained it nicely :::

- - >"The terms 'Big Block' and 'Small block' are for engines that have physically bigger and smaller engine blocks. Pontiac is not one of these. That has nothing at all to do with the displacement of the engine."<


The LeMans only came with the 326 2bbl.
The GTO only came with the 389 4bbl or Tri-Power.(optional 421 from the dealer)
You could not buy a LeMans with the big block or a 4bbl.
You could not buy the GTO with a 326 or a 2bbl.
Also the 389 had alot of high performance features like oiling thru the push rods rather then thru the rocker arm stud like the 326, screw in rocker arm studs instead of the press fit ones like the 326, also the 389 had a clutch fan, the first Pontiac to run one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Duh righ back at yeah.
At the time, they didn`t use the same engine, you could not get the same engine in both cars, to get the big block in a `65 Lemans you had to order the GTO option.>>>>>>>>>
Sorry but you are wrong on several points ... i_jester is correct.
If you like I can take the time to point out each misconception. :)

Trust me! Safe to say I have machined & built more engines in a month than most
people have seen in their entire lives. Furthermore, back in the day people came
from several states to my shop to have their Pontiac engines worked since they were my specialty.

Plus I have owned several Le Mans/GTO's. And a few other A-body GM cars of that era as you can
see from the post above.
_______________
P. S. - lets please try to keep this discussion friendly. My only intention is to disseminate misinformation.

[Rukee]

Hmmm ... I can see the usual misconceptions about Pontiac engines preside here - big block/small block :rolleyes:


Nope. If you place a 301 and 455 block side by side you would soon discover they are the same
size external casting. If anything the Pontiac V-8 can be described as an "intermediate block".
i_jester explained it nicely :::

- - >"The terms 'Big Block' and 'Small block' are for engines that have physically bigger and smaller engine blocks. Pontiac is not one of these. That has nothing at all to do with the displacement of the engine."<


Sorry but you are wrong on several points ... i_jester is correct.
If you like I can take the time to point out each misconception. :)

Trust me! Safe to say I have machined & built more engines in a month than most
people have seen in their entire lives. Furthermore, back in the day people came
from several states to my shop to have their Pontiac engines worked since they were my specialty.

Plus I have owned several Le Mans/GTO's. And a few other A-body GM cars of that era as you can
see from the post above.
_______________
P. S. - lets please try to keep this discussion friendly. My only intention is to disseminate misinformation.
The only thing he is right about is the overall weight of the motors are similar, although the blocks may be the same outside dimensions, the motors in the Le mans and the GTO were not the same motor. As I`ve already explained, the block casting #s, bore, the heads, cam and lifters, intake, pistons (running higher compression) oil pan (holding 6 qts not 5), high volume oil pump, different pick up screen, oiling the heads through the push rods rather then the rocker studs, the clutch fan, the distributer, the GTO only coming with a posi rear end, etc were all different between the two. The 'big block' (okay, maybe the wrong term for a Pontiac, but the one used) 389 4bbl. was the GTO option for the Le mans. You could not get the `65 Le mans with the 389, a 4bbl, or a tri-power. I suggest you read 'The Big Little GTO Book", it explains alot of the differences between the two and the history of the car, a good read.
If you think they are the same motor, just try to sell a `65 LeMans motor to a guy trying to restore an original `65 GTO, he`ll laugh at the thought that they are 'the same' motor.
Sorry for pointing that out.

*edited for spelling

[Susquehannock]

My copy of "The Big Little GTO Book" is well worn thank you.
A better reference book would be the "Pontiac GTO Restoration Guide" by Zazarine & Roberts.
Both of which I have met in person actually.

The whole point that i_jester was trying to make is that Pontiac does
not have a "big block" or "small block" V-8. What you are saying about GTO
vs. Le Mans block casting #'s being different is correct, but not what we
were talking about at all.


The only thing he is right about is the overall weight of the motors are similar, although the blocks may be the same outside dimensions, the motors in the Le mans and the GTO were not the same motor. As I`ve already explained, the block casting #s, bore, the heads, cam and lifters, intake, pistons (running higher compression) oil pan (holding 6 qts not 5), high volume oil pump, different pick up screen, oiling the heads through the push rods rather then the rocker studs, the clutch fan, the distributer, the GTO only coming with a posi rear end, etc were all different between the two. The 'big block' (okay, maybe the wrong term for a Pontiac, but the one used) 389 4bbl. was the GTO option for the Le mans. You could not get the `65 Le mans with the 389, a 4bbl, or a tri-power. I suggest you read 'The Big Little GTO Book", it explains alot of the differences between the two and the history of the car, a good read.
If you think they are the same motor, just try to sell a `65 LeMans motor to a guy trying to restore an original `65 GTO, he`ll laugh at the thought that they are 'the same' motor.
Sorry for pointing that out.

*edited for spelling
Sure it is important to have the proper casting #'s if you are doing a complete
restoration. But to say that the blocks & most of the internals are physically
different from GTO to Le Mans, & non-interchangable is just plain wrong.

You are right that a GTO and Le Mans engines could have different intake,
compression ratio, rocker studs, valve sizes etc, etc ...
But that does not mean they are not "the same motor".
If you only knew how many times I have interchanged said parts for my circle
track customers in the shop. And in my own Pontiacs for that matter.

And you should read that book you referenced again. Particularly where Pontiac redesigned
their engines in 1967-68 ... 389 became the 400 etc.
You might be surprised. The "L76" for instance. High compression 326cid - 4bbl, dual exhaust.

Now, this is not to say that certain hi-perf Pontiac engines didn't have key
design differences. Like the round port "Ram Air 4" and "Super Duty" 455 for instance.
And I don't even want to talk about the piece of crap that was the 301.
Yet I can assure you they are not wholely different & are basically the same
engines with MANY interchangable parts.

[Rukee]

the internal parts are physically different between the 326 and the GTO 389.
It`s not that they 'could have' different intakes and such, they did have different intakes, compression ratio, rocker studs, etc etc, making them diffrent engines. The ONLY thing the LeMans and GTO engine have the same is the outside dimension of the block, everything else on the inside and bolted to the outside with the exception of maybe the water pump, intake vally pan and timing cover, is different. Saying they are the same motor is not right. IMO.

[Susquehannock]

the internal parts are physically different between the 326 and the GTO 389.
It`s not that they 'could have' different intakes and such, they did have different intakes, compression ratio, rocker studs, etc etc, making them diffrent engines. The ONLY thing the LeMans and GTO engine have the same is the outside dimension of the block, everything else on the inside and bolted to the outside with the exception of maybe the water pump, intake vally pan and timing cover, is different. Saying they are the same motor is not right. IMO.
Dude, I am not disputing the differences you mentioned. Only that just
because it has a different intake, stroke, or compression ratio doesn't make
it a completely different engine.
Sure the 326 has a smaller bore than 389, plus smaller valves, and 2bbl
intake. That doesn't make it a whole other design. They are both Pontiac designs with MANY simularities.

Like it or not the 326 and 389 are the same stroke, just different bore. Look it up. :)
They both use the same connecting rods & crank. The difference is in how they are balanced.

And things got even more interesting after '67 with the advent of the 350/400/428/455.
Did you know that the Pontiac 326, 350, 389, and 400 are the same stroke & the cranks & conn rods
are interchangable provided the reciprocating mass are balanced correctly?

[Rukee]

yes, but saying the `65 LeMans and the GTO used the same engine is as true as saying the Chevy 305 and the 400 are the same engine. Just cause you can swap the basic parts around, doesn`t make one the same as the other. The power difference alone that the two makes makes them different if nothing else.

[i_jester]

Rukee:

You are off on some wild tangent from what I started out stating. I never said one word about the LeMans and GTO having the same engines, or that the internals of the engines were the same (although you can interchange much of them, and all you have to do to fit a 455 crank in a 400 is grind the journals down .250), or anything else to that matter. I simply responded to your statement that implied a 'Big Block' pontiac was heavier than a 'Small Block'.

The original statement from you was that I wouldn't have had to lower the front end if I dropped in a 'Big Block'. I simply responded that that was incorrect as a 'Big Block' Pontiac weighs roughly the same as a 'Small Block', hence there would be no weight difference, and no difference in the stance of the car.

No knowledgeable person would ever argue that the LeMans had the GTO engine, or vice versa. The GTO at that time was an upgrade package to the LeMans, with the different engine and other assorted add-ons.

Buick was the same way. The 350 and 455 are not much different in size, and the heads can bolt on either.

If you want to use the term 'Big Block' to refer to a 'Mid Block' with a larger displacement, go right ahead. Just don't expect those of us that build and race Pontiacs or Buicks to jump in with you. We just call them by their displacement.

[Rukee]

Rukee:
You are off on some wild tangent from what I started out stating. I never said one word about the LeMans and GTO having the same engines,



Aha. A non pontiac guy. There is no difference between a small block and a big block pontiac. They are the same.


I was talking a GTO engine compared to a Lemans. Any GTO owner I know considers his engine a big block when compared to the Lemans 326 counter part. Maybe I should have passed on complementing your car, I dunno.

[join nbk]

Some quick american sleepers to the untrained eye:

GMC Syclone
GMC Typhoon
Buick Grand National and GNX

Oldschool quick cars:
Ford Escort Cosworth
Mazda 323 GTX
Mazda MX-3 with a KLZE
Mustang 5.0 HO
BMW 850i
BMW E34 M5 (eurospec)
BMW E30 M3
1G Talon TSi AWD and same spec Eclipse and Laser
Honda CRX with a k20a2 swap :p


GMC Syclone
GMC Typhoon
Buick Grand National and GNX

guess what cars my uncle are building, and a 6 beater quad hairdryer buick special down to 3/4 ton

[David Coleman]

Some quick american sleepers to the untrained eye:

Mazda MX-3 with a KLZE



Hey! I drive one of those :) That's funny you mentioned it...yeah, it is quite the sleeper(especially in pink) :)

http://www.davidandjemma.com/mazda/images/PinkPowa.jpg

[Newbie_User]

To ToxicBug : you mentionned BMW M5 E34 (evo) eurospec....
it's a fast nice car...
340 hp's and 400 Nm torque....

Some of these should be available @ low prices.....

Unfortunately.....those fast cars are litteraly captured to Eastern Europe countries.....
Or the few ones that you'll be able to find have been misused....:(

So rule number one :
Take car of your car....