Using a onboard and PCI soundcard at the same time

[Flux Deluxe]

Hey guys!

I need to use two outputs and therefore want to use my onboard soundcard on my Asus A8V Deluxe board together with my internal Audigy 2 ZS card. I've tried activating the onboard one, installing drivers etc. but it doesn't work. When I pull out the Audigy card it works, though. But as soon as I plug the Audigy card back on it "takes over" the onboard one. Is there anything I can do to make them both work?

Also, I installed some older soundcard (ALS4000) and this works, but the volume is very low and if I start turning it up it will distort. The card has been used for a long time in another computer where it worked like a charm. What's wrong?

Hope someone can help!

Thanks in advance!

[Kadaj]

the onboard will automatically disable itself(as an output source) when a PCI ad-in card is installed. there's nothing you can do about that. Just a question though. . . two outputs of what, and why do you need two.

[Flux Deluxe]

Oh, damn! :(
Well, I need two line outs, or what to call it. Need it for mixing (you know, DJ-ing) where one should be prev. output and the other master output. The prev. is what you hear on your headphones and the master is what everyone else hears. I was thinking about buying a soundcard which has two outputs but figgured I could use the two I already have in my comp. But that seems not to be possible...

Any idea what's wrong with the other PCI card? Cuz two PCI cards work but the ALS4000 I've put in is rather low in volume and distorts when turned up.

[PorkchopExpress]

The PCI sound card will not disable the on-board sound.

#1. What board do you have?

#2. Make sure you have the most recent BIOS.

#3. In the BIOS, go into PCI settings, and reserve an IRQ for the slot that is going to have the Creative card. This sometimes (depending on board) becomes necessary with multiple sound cards.

#4. Move the audigy from PCI slot to PCI slot.

EDIT: Also, what is the model number of the on-board sound (the ac-97 and codec.)

[Flux Deluxe]

Thanks for replying PorkchopExpress. I got a Asus A8V Deluxe board using the newest BIOS.
I've actually moved the soundcard down to PCI slot 5 (which is shared) - didn't help but I'll try with the IRQ thing! In the manual it says that IRQ 5 is for soundcard(s ) so I guess I have to set PCI slot 5 to IRQ5?

[PorkchopExpress]

Ok, it uses the realtek AC97 with 850 codec.

You may have to play with driver installation in order for it to work. Meaning... Try disabling on-board sound (so the drivers are effectively removed), and install drivers for your audigy. Reboot and enable the on-board sound.

I've had a few systems that have needed a clean installation in order to get the drivers straight.

[[XC] Lead Head]

i am not sure if you can do the same, i got Realtek codec too and it allows me to set any of the 3 sound jacks in back as an output,input, etc, likei can have 3 outputs, see if you can do the same. i think there should be some kind of realtek audio manage thing. mine is called sound manager

[PorkchopExpress]

Yes, but each device uses its own driver and management software. Whatever settings you have on the Realtek will not apply to the audigy.

Both devices have completely different PnP ID's (the string the INF uses to install the driver), and are treated as completely separate entities in the system (regardless of what type of device it is).

The only time this differs is when you're using multiple audigy's in the same system... Then the app will actually apply changes based on which device ID you want to modify.

[Flux Deluxe]

Lead Head>>>
Thanks! I'll see if I can do the same but first...

PorkchopExpress>>>
I start with disabling the onboard card then I set the IRQ and install drivers for the Audigy. After that I reboot and enable the onboard card again. I will try it this way...
Btw. do I have to uninstall the Realtek drivers before disabling or?

[PorkchopExpress]

Lead Head>>>
Thanks! I'll see if I can do the same but first...

PorkchopExpress>>>
I start with disabling the onboard card then I set the IRQ and install drivers for the Audigy. After that I reboot and enable the onboard card again. I will try it this way...
Btw. do I have to uninstall the Realtek drivers before disabling or?

I would... That way there are no traces of it in the registry or otherwise when you disable it in the BIOS.

The INF is going to be present in the c:\windows\inf directory though. It will be labeled as OEM# (number being 1-whatever), so don't be alarmed if it is picked up after you enable it in the BIOS (hopefully the Audigy will be working at this point :))

[Flux Deluxe]

Ok, here's what I've done.

I started uninstalling the Realtek drivers. Then I restarted and disabled it in the BIOS and also sat IRQ5 to "Reserved". Then in Windows I updated the Audigy drivers and rebooted once again and enabled the onboard card. When I got into Windows I installed the Realtek drivers again and rebooted - this should be right? Problem is it doesn't work...the Audigy card still works but the onboard card ain't showing up - neither in the Device Manager. So I tried the "Add New Hardware" thing and added the VIA AC97 Audio Controller sound drivers which then brought VIA AC97 Audio Controller up in the Device Manager but it says that the device cannot start (Code 10). I've read that this means that you need to reinstall drivers etc. but I've tried this and it didn't help...
...what the...:confused:

[PorkchopExpress]

The reason you are getting a code 10 for the VIA driver is because it is not a VIA AC-97. The VIA driver is used for actual VIA AC-97's that are on older AMD and Intel boards (like 3+ years ago).

Download the latest drivers from www.realtek.com.tw

Also, you say the device isn't showing up in device manager... Are there any "Unsupported devices" with a question mark next to it?

Try different IRQ's as well. If the on-board sound only tries 5 (which is now reserved) in order to initialize, that would be a problem :)

[nn_step]

Hey guys!

I need to use two outputs and therefore want to use my onboard soundcard on my Asus A8V Deluxe board together with my internal Audigy 2 ZS card. I've tried activating the onboard one, installing drivers etc. but it doesn't work. When I pull out the Audigy card it works, though. But as soon as I plug the Audigy card back on it "takes over" the onboard one. Is there anything I can do to make them both work?

Also, I installed some older soundcard (ALS4000) and this works, but the volume is very low and if I start turning it up it will distort. The card has been used for a long time in another computer where it worked like a charm. What's wrong?

Hope someone can help!

Thanks in advance!
Or you could just spend $5 and get a splitter

[Flux Deluxe]

nn_step >>>
If you mean like a splitter to use the same output but just for two speaker sets f.ex. then no - that won't work...I need to independant outputs - as I don't have a soundcard with built-in two outputs I figured I could use the two soundcards I got in my comp.

PorkchopExpress >>>
Hm, it's strange cuz I actually DID download the newest drivers from the Realtek site.
The only unsupported (or question marked) devices is the AC 97 one I add.
:confused:

Here's what I do in the Add New Hardware wizard:
1. Press Next (:rolleyes: )
2. Choose the "Yes, I have already connected the hardware" and press Next
3. Then I scroll down to "Add a new hardware device" and press Next
4. Then I choose "Install the hardware that I manually select from a list"
5. Here I choose "Sound, video and game controllers" and press Next
6. In the "Manufactor" list there's no Realtek so I choose Via Technologies and then to the right under "Model" i choose VIA AC'97 Audio Controller, press Next and it installs it but then tells me it cannot start.

I'll try changing the IRQ again... :S

[nn_step]

nn_step >>>
If you mean like a splitter to use the same output but just for two speaker sets f.ex. then no - that won't work...I need to independant outputs - as I don't have a soundcard with built-in two outputs I figured I could use the two soundcards I got in my comp.

Now I don't know what you want.. if you want more connections than 7.1 you can not do that..
if you want to hook up two different things but play the same stuff.. a simple splitter is all it takes

[Flux Deluxe]

No I don't need more than 7.1 connections - I just need to have two outputs. Some soundcards have those and the DJ mixing program wil regognize that so that wouldn't be a problem. But I don't have a soundcard with two of those therefore I want to use two soundcards because the program I use to DJ with supports the use of more than one soundcard. One soundcard then works as prev. and one as master. I don't know how else to explain it but it doesn't matter - I just need to have those two soundcards working.

[PorkchopExpress]

nn_step >>>
If you mean like a splitter to use the same output but just for two speaker sets f.ex. then no - that won't work...I need to independant outputs - as I don't have a soundcard with built-in two outputs I figured I could use the two soundcards I got in my comp.

PorkchopExpress >>>
Hm, it's strange cuz I actually DID download the newest drivers from the Realtek site.
The only unsupported (or question marked) devices is the AC 97 one I add.
:confused:

Here's what I do in the Add New Hardware wizard:
1. Press Next (:rolleyes: )
2. Choose the "Yes, I have already connected the hardware" and press Next
3. Then I scroll down to "Add a new hardware device" and press Next
4. Then I choose "Install the hardware that I manually select from a list"
5. Here I choose "Sound, video and game controllers" and press Next
6. In the "Manufactor" list there's no Realtek so I choose Via Technologies and then to the right under "Model" i choose VIA AC'97 Audio Controller, press Next and it installs it but then tells me it cannot start.

I'll try changing the IRQ again... :S

Even if he uses a splitter, it only gets around the problem, doesn't fix it :)

Flux, there won't be a realtek selection there because it isn't supported in-box windows XP. You need to select "Have disk", and manually point to the driver package (where the INF is located).

Then it will load the correct driver. That's why you are getting the code 10. It sounds like both devices are there, you're just not getting the correct driver on the on-board adapter.

[enzoR]

Do you use virtual DJ? you can hookup the master to the soundcard "front" channels, and your headset to the rear channel. thats with a 5.1 soundcard, which is what i do.

[Flux Deluxe]

enzoR >>>
Nope, I use MixMeister - there, I can choose two soundcards for the prev. and master output. Can't do the same thing in MixMeister like you can in Virtual DJ.

PorkchopExpress >>>
Ah, well that sounds more logical. But hmm, when I choose "Have Disk" and locate the folder where I've unpacked the drivers, there's a whole bunch of inf files and none of them seems to have any information about the soundcard. When I choose one of them and press Open there's nothing. Can't choose any manufactor etc. :confused:

[PorkchopExpress]

Then you'll have to use the executable included with the driver package.

To make it easier, remove ALL audio drivers, and try to install the latest Realtek driver.

You're hitting some type of weird issue installing multiple drivers.

Go into c:\windows\INF and do a "dir oem*"

You'll find all of the 3rd party driver INF's that have been installed for the system. Find ALL audio drivers INFs and delete them along with the matching PNF (located in the same directory).

Example-

C:\WINDOWS\inf>dir oem*
Volume in drive C has no label.
Volume Serial Number is 000D-D0F3

Directory of C:\WINDOWS\inf

02/11/2005 11:50 AM 6,272 oem0.inf
08/06/2005 11:58 PM 14,810 oem0.PNF
02/11/2005 10:08 AM 4,936 oem1.inf
08/06/2005 11:58 PM 10,250 oem1.PNF
08/02/2005 03:35 PM 27,378 oem10.inf
09/04/2005 06:48 PM 51,988 oem10.PNF
01/11/2005 03:32 PM 3,966 oem2.inf
08/06/2005 11:44 PM 8,146 oem2.PNF
01/11/2005 03:32 PM 18,432 oem3.inf
08/06/2005 11:44 PM 24,402 oem3.PNF
07/27/2004 03:14 PM 563 oem5.inf
08/07/2005 12:23 AM 4,184 oem5.PNF
07/27/2004 03:14 PM 997 oem6.inf
08/07/2005 12:23 AM 5,566 oem6.PNF
07/27/2004 03:14 PM 1,361 oem7.inf
08/07/2005 12:23 AM 5,048 oem7.PNF
04/06/2005 02:09 AM 4,074 oem8.inf
08/07/2005 12:23 AM 8,378 oem8.PNF
04/20/2005 11:08 PM 18,871 oem9.inf
08/07/2005 12:23 AM 24,474 oem9.PNF
20 File(s) 244,096 bytes
0 Dir(s) 145,725,358,080 bytes free

C:\WINDOWS\inf>

; NVIDIA Windows 2000/XP Display INF file
; Copyright (c) NVIDIA Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Version]
Signature = "$Windows NT$"
Provider = %NVIDIA%
ClassGUID = {4D36E968-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}
Class = Display
CatalogFile = NV4_DISP.CAT
DriverVer = 08/02/2005, 7.8.0.1

By looking at the beginning of OEM10, I can see this is the display driver.

If this was the audio driver, you'd delete both the INF and PNF (after uninstalling all devices in device manager).

This effectively resets the device installation for the audio devices (a driver will no longer automatically be picked up.)

If this is a bit too complicated, just do a clean install and see if that helps.

[euclid]

it should definately work alot of people keep onboard sound for windows system sounds so they dont interupt the pci card output. just keep trying to figure out the BIOS/driver situation

[Flux Deluxe]

Sorry for not replying earlier, but I just tried out what you said, PorkchopExpress. I uninstalled drivers for both cards and deleted all inf/pnf files that had something to do with Realtek and Audigy. After that I rebooted and installed the latest Realtek drivers. Rebooted again, still not showing up. Installed Audigy drivers - Audigy card works again but still nothing from the Realtek card. It wil show up when I take out the Audigy card but as soon as I put it back in the onboard card will disappear :confused:

Don't know what else there's to do :S

euclid >>>
Hm, yeah it should be possible for me too, just don't know really what else to do. I've been trying out some stuff in the BIOS but with no luck (IRQ f.ex).

[PorkchopExpress]

euclid >>>
Hm, yeah it should be possible for me too, just don't know really what else to do. I've been trying out some stuff in the BIOS but with no luck (IRQ f.ex).

Certain BIOS settings (PnP and some powermanagement) will not actually change until you reinstall a build.

Delete the reserved IRQ in the BIOS, and then re-install your OS with BOTH devices enabled/installed.

Setup will generate a setup log. It's called setupapi.log (in your windows directory). Once setup is done, you can search for the device ID of both audio devices in the log. If only one is found, it certain that you have a hardware compat issue. (All devices are scanned during setup, so it will generate an entry for each device).

If there aren't two devices in the device manager at this point (both will be yellow and banged out), and you only find the device ID for the device in device manager, then you have a device compat problem.

At that point, you can only call asus and hope for the best. Maybe they can go over BIOS settings with you, or recommend something to fix it. I can't really give you advice on the BIOS, as it's been a few years since I've had the board.

[nn_step]

It'll only happen with the right software.. period

[PorkchopExpress]

It'll only happen with the right software.. period

If the device isn't even showing up in the first place (which is verified with the setup log, and device manager), then it has nothing to do with software. A device, supported or not, will always attempt to be installed, and then started.

Hardware, device firmware, motherboard BIOS, or motherboard settings.

A correct driver may not be loaded, but the device will still be there.

It's been that way since Windows XP. The closest thing to Manual installation one gets to now (since the end of ISA and EISA) is installing a non-signed driver or a driver that doesn't have a matching PnP-ID.

EDIT: Flux, just to be sure (because this is very important). When you deleted all of the INF's, and you had both sound cards installed. Were there 1 or 2 unsupported devices? (meaning, did you see one or both of the audio cards, even though they didn't have a driver.)

[nn_step]

Dude just spend the $50 and get the correct software..
it would be a hell of alot cheaper and take a hell of alot less tlme

[PorkchopExpress]

Well if the device isn't being seen, I doubt he'll have any other choice :)

[Flux Deluxe]

Again, sorry for this late reply!

PorkchopExpress >>>
After I had all INF's etc. deleted I could still only see my Audigy card =/

I've tried a lot of different things and nothing seems to work - but also, I've found this review:

"Only one problem, that may be fixable by a bios upgrade: No matter if the onboard audio is enabled in the bios, as soon as there is a PCI soundcard detected, the onboard sound get disabled and there's nothing you can do. Those like me wanting to use 2 soundcards are out of luck until this is fixed in the bios."

(link: http://www.bytewizecomputers.com/products/7/7/717/6126 )

So it seems like they've done something in the BIOS that does not allow onboard and PCI card to work at the same time :(

But thanks for your help! Much appreciated!

And to you all, Merry Christmas! :banana: