Tec-Chiller thoughts, plz help...

[Karatekid]

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to find a way to improve the performance of my cooling equipment. This is what I use right now:
http://members.home.nl/jan.barelds/Karatekid's_System/Full-size_Pics/Coolunit.JPG

The temps this thing hands me are somewhat dissapointing. Water temps are @ 11 'C (52 'F) when not using the PC for a while, and climb to about 15 'C (59 'F) after a few hours of normal usage of the PC. The unit is rated @ 186W (1/4 hp), which is a little low if the evaporator isn't cooling direct-die, but 9 litres (2.4 gallons) of water instead. I should've used an A/C // dehumidifier unit, those weigh in at 2kW at least.

So I'm trying to find a way to easily lower the temps, without having to resort to huge funds, melting wall-sockets, or a great deal of work (again).
I came up with a few ideas to add a Peltier-Chiller into the system, and thought up 3 ways that might work for me.

Idea 1:
http://members.home.nl/jan.barelds/Tec-Chiller/Cooling.JPG
Using this setup the WaterChiller would only have to deal with the load of the Tec, not the CPU's direct load.
The Tec would only have to chill the water in the 2nd loop, which, when it arrives at the Tec-Chiller will only be a few degrees over room-temp. Thanks to the radiator + fan in the loop. The small volume of water to be cooled should add to it's performance. Downside is the need to power-up the Tec-Chiller everytime I wish to use the PC. Not that great for the bills I get to receive.

Idea 2:
http://members.home.nl/jan.barelds/Tec-Chiller/Cooling2.JPG
This setup would place the Tec-WaterChiller inline with the evaporative-waterchiller to CPU loop.
Positive side with this approach is that I don't HAVE to power the Tec-Chiller + it's cooling loop all the time, thus reducing my energy bills.
The negative side however is that the flow-rate & volume of the coolant will both hinder good cooling performance.

Idea 3:
http://members.home.nl/jan.barelds/Tec-Chiller/Cooling3.JPG
This approach would also provide the ability to turn the Tec-Chiller part off if not needed. However, to add any amount of performance, it would have to be switched on for a sizable amount of time. Mostly due to the high volume of coolant.

There you have it, 3 different approaches, all with their benefits and downsides. Maybe it's time for one more sketch of the Tec-Chiller I had in mind:
http://members.home.nl/jan.barelds/Tec-Chiller/Tec-Chiller.JPG
The big block on the cold-side of the Tec will be nothing more then just a standart heatsink, with an entrance and release chamber on each side, and sealed tight to become sord of a big waterblock. The HS-fins will be alligned with the flow's path. The block will be insulated too, if that appears to be nessecary during operation. The heatsink to be used can be both copper and aluminium, I have the resources to weld them both. (brother in aeronautical industry) It would be easier to be able to apply 2 rather then 1 Tec, as the same capacity can be archieved, but with twice the surface-area. Power-needs would also be easier to take care of.

That's all folk's.
Now let me know if you really like one of the above-mentioned setups, or maybe you have a better idea? Share it with me. Also I would like some advice on the Tec-power to be used. If you have a better idea on how to build the Tec-Chiller block, please let me know also.

Jan "Karatekid" Barelds
(btw, I posted the same question over @ Futuremark's forums, but QuadDamage said I should turn to xtremesystems. So here I am, and not for the last time...)

[wdd1040]

Welcome to Xtreme!
Someone will be with you shortly. :)
~Wes

[ARGON]

Why don't you want to put the TEC directly on the CPU?

I would invest in at least two 226 Watt pelts and put one directly on the CPU and the other in a pelt water chiller in series just before the CPU. Use the water chiller setup you already have to cool the water circuit that is cooling the water chilling pelt.

So you are basically going to have two water circuits :

1. Pump1 >TEC (water chiller) > TEC (CPU block) > Radiator

2. Big box water chiller > Pump2 > TEC (water chiller) > Radiator

[Karatekid]

ARGON,

Using the big-box waterchiller to cool 2 226W Tecs, would put an enormous strain on the waterchiller, as the returning water would be allways a few degrees over roomtemp. (well, at least quite shortly after initial powering up) I'm having a hard time believing it's able to do anything positive in this case, considdering the time it takes that thing to cool the coolant down by even 1 'C...
The setup you proposed would actually work I guess, but I'd have to invest in yet another Tec, and an extra radiator.
I want to keep it as straight and simple as I can...

[Karatekid]

I came up with yet another method of archieving my goal.

How'bout if I were to lower a huge amp-style aluminium heatsinks in the coolant. That thing is to be cooled by 2 Tecs, which in turn receive their cooling by a Maze2 - Rad+Fan setup.
The top of the heatsink is to be leveled exactly with the coolant surface.

Would that be an idea?

[Bartje]

I would not invest in this cooling anymore...
The tec won`t be able to get the water temp down more than 5C.. So its really not worth it...

I`d keep all stuff as it is now and start saving for Prommie, ones you got it you can use this chiller for the GPU...

BTW, hey bro, left FM as well??

[wymjym]

I have been chilling my water for some months now. I choose to operate at around 8degrees below ambient. This lets me avoid the condensation thing and I also like the shiny clean looks of no anti condensarion materials. My chiller, with one 156watt and one 70 watt pelt is capable of bringing the water down to <20 degrees of ambient (typical room temps of 75~85) while driving my xp2400 @ 2350mhz, 1.95V.
You can see it here (http://westech.home.mindspring.com/chiller/mychiller.htm) and maybe get some ideas of your own.
wj

[Karatekid]

wymjym,

All that cooling from just a 156W and a 70W pelt? Seems pretty good to me. Added up it brings 226W to the table. Let's assume them tec's deliver 80% efficiency, that would be about 180Watts of cooling power. ('bout the same as my 186W phase-change box) If I were to add the same setup to my allready excisting stuffs, I would about double it's capacity. (Needless to say, it wouldn't double performance, I know)
Very nice and neat job, I "favorited" your link ;D

Bartje,
I'm not planning on spending lots of cash, but I'm aiming at a low-cost yet effective way to improve the current setup. Besides that, I just like to keep busy :)
btw, saving up for a prommie won't even allow me to spend a lot meanwhile.

[megatron]

As a general rule, I think its accepted that to directly cool the CPU with TEC is best for performance. I would try to keep high flow past the TEC CPU with your best pump and have a big res being chilled by your chiller to maximumise the time in the chiller (since the cooling is closer to the CPU, its the same principle as above of keeping your active cooling closest to what you want to cool).

If the chiller just can hack being in the primary loop then swap the chiller to the second loop and the rad to the primary loop (in the first example I had the Rad in a second loop, although I didn't say so). This way the secondary loop with chiller assists the primary loop with CPU TEC and Rad.

Or have one loop and put rad(s) after the CPU TEC to drop the temps for the chiller to cope. You could also try to optimise your TEC CPU interface by excellent use of a lot of neoprene to keep the cold from escaping!

I had a TEC in the past but was a bit unfortunate with it and decided to go back to watercooling with my current setup. I may try TECing again. I will soon have enough parts to test a set up away from my new stuff.

[Player0]

Ive tried to do this. Ive been using chilled water to cool a MCW462-UHT waterblock with its own 226w peltier. Its definitely best to mount the peltier right on the CPU. But, your chiller needs to be really powerful to handle this. I use a 700w peltier/water chiller, which was enough to handle the CPU/226w pelt combo. Unfortunately, my radiator system was not up to the job, and im in the process of replacing it.

You may have more luck with a phase-change water chilling system...But you will want a chiller capable of handling 600-800w of heat to get good results. Also remember that the efficiency of a peltier goes WAY down the tubes when operating in cold environments. You may only get a 10-15c lower temperature by using the pelt because of this loss.

Good luck :)