My car's turn signal is screwy

[Foxie3a]

I am proud to say that as of 2 days ago I now own my first car. It took a lot, but it was worth it. I found a few I could afford that would last a while, but when my eyes landed on this one I knew I wanted it.

It is a 1993 Pontiac Firebird. It has a V6 3.4L engine. It's a hatchback with dark green paint. Whatever the case is, the engine looks spotless and the odometer reads 52K miles. I bought it because it would last me a long time, and it would still be fun, it's not "hyndai" or any other tiny boring car.

I bought it from a used car dealer, as-is. Just about the only thing I didnt check was the turn signals, because I just figured they would work properly. Big mistake.

I know computers, not cars. So I called up my friend and we tried to diagnose the problem. Here is exactly what is wrong.

The lights on the right side of the car(both front and back) are dimmer than the left side. It is hard to tell with the head lights, they actually might be fine. However, the orange lights in the front are obviously not the same brightness. The rear right lights are most noticably duller. I take off the plastic covering on the rear lights, and all the bulbs are good, but you can still tell the rights are duller. My friend and I switched some bulbs around, but there was no change.

We turn on the left turn signal and watch it. Every 10 seconds or so you will see the left side blink, that goes for the front and back. Turn on the right, and there is no blinking whatsoever. There is also no blinking in the car on the dash.

I went to the local car parts store and asked for some advice. I walked out of there with a new bulb and a new blinker thingie. Installed the new bulb in different places, no effect. I installed the new blinker unit under the dash, but it also had no effect.

This might not have any relevence, but the turn signal is very hard to move. I haven't driven too many cars, but I can say that this one is considerably harder to move than others. It's not really something you can tap with your pinky as you are getting ready to turn, it requires muscle. Is it possible that is related?

I am going to buy a manual for the car, and try to figure out the electrical system. Maybe I will be able to find something out of place. I am also thinking of taking my multi-meter out there and comparing the voltages going to each side of the car. I really wish it was just the blinker unit that was broken, I didn't want to be doing repairs on the car right after I bought it.

I have found two areas with fuses, one is on the side of the dash and the other is under the hood. The one under the hood has some larger units like the blinker, one has ABS written on it(controls my brakes I'm guessing). I can take a picture of the diagrams that are on the covers to these fuse boxes, I will do that tomorrow. There are a few fuses missing.

The car is mostly stock, the only new part I know of is the altinator, but I'm not sure how recently that was installed. Is it possible that the old altinator caused a problem, or maybe the new altinator is causing a problem? Maybe wires were mixed up in the process?

So any advice you guys have would help me a lot. I really don't want to take it in to a mechanic because I have absolutely no money. I'm hoping someone here has some experience and will be able to help me. Or maybe direct me to a good car forum?

Finally, here is a picture of the car, looks damn good for a 1993 doesn't it?

http://www.processorforums.com/Firebird/Firebird%201.jpg

Thanks! :)

[IFMU]

My first thought after reading all of your post would be there might be an issue in the actual arm of the blinker turn signal. The reason for my thinking on this would be due to your description of the difficulty of using the arm. Do some checking into it if you could, might help some.

[jjcom]

Good choice on car and that engine will last you a long time from what I've read. A long time, as long as you treat it right :) Hope the alternator isn't anything one in a 89 or 90 Z-24 though...they burn out pretty fast, not meant to charge the battery for long.[/OT]

I would guess there's something up with the turn signal switch, and my next would be a wiring issue.

For the alternator, I doubt that would cause the problem, but it couldn't hurt to check the wiring and look for any damage.

[Foxie3a]

How hard would it be to replace the turn signal switch? Also, how expensive are they usually? The switch also has the cruise control buttons on it, so that might make things complicated.

If the problem is only the actual switch, why is it that the right side lights are dimmer than the right, even when the turn signal is not on?

Where do you think the wiring problem would be? Could it be anywhere in the loop? Could it just be that the wires are getting old somewhere? If all the connections appear to be fine, I really dont want to go about replacing each old looking wire. I really need more insight into where the problem could be stemming from. I have a feeling this is going to be a very costly mechanic job.

[Rukee]

It`s not the alternator, try to pull the 4-way emergency blinkers and check all 4 corners of the car for flashing lights and to see if they`re balanced. More times then not when one side flashes normal but the other side doesn`t, the side that doesn`t usually has a bad bulb somewhere in the circuit. Check to be sure the side that`s not working has all the same bulbs lighting up that the good side has. If the car has a trailer hitch, be sure to check the trailer wire connector for corrosion or shorting out on the body anywere.
The blinker/cruze handle should pull straight out of the blinker switch and remain with the car if the switch needs replacing. The blinker switch itself plugs into the harness under the steering collum, you could try a new switch and just plug it in under the dash without installing it in the collum to see if that`s why they have different brightnesses.

[chew*]

Im a mechanic by trade and it sounds like you have a bad ground issue. Most likely a corroded ground wire near the fender in most gm cars. That is most likely the dim light problem.

You can try the hazard lights and see if they blink......It's very possible you changed the hazards blinker relay instead of the turn signal one......

[Foxie3a]

I just went out there and put my hazard lights on. They all blink in perfect unison, however the right side is significantly dimmer than the left. It's not that a bulb is out, it's that each bulb is only at like half the power of the left side.

Where would this ground line going to the fender be? Should I go looking under the car for it? Am I going to have to take things apart to find this ground wire?

Hmm, I might have changed the hazard light blinker instead... The peice I put in had the same numbers as the one I took out though. Maybe I should take apart the dash again and take a look around.

I've been focusing on the rear quite a bit, do you think that it's possible the bulb problem is in the front? I don't know how to take apart the front, it'll be quite a task.

And on top of things, my ignition seems quite loose. It is difficult to put the key in and even more difficult to take the key out. The key has a microchip on it to prevent theft, but it just makes things more complicated for me. I only have one key and I would like another in case if this one ever is lost or breaks. Have any idea how much the GM dealership will charge me for a new key?

Okay, so tomorrow I find the ground cable and see if it's eroded. Maybe I will also look under the steering column again for another blinking unit to replace. Not really sure how I can check each bulb for a problem since they all seem to work, just not as bright as others.

Each bulb lights up, so none are broken. However, each peice that the bulb goes into looks very old and used, maybe even corroded. The peices are all quite dirty. Is it possible that the peice the bulb goes into is creating the problem? It would be difficult for me to blindly replace each connector that each bulb goes into, especially since I have no idea how to get to the front lights.

Since the left side seems to be fine except the rate of flashing, can I rule it out as being the side with the problem? I'm saying, does that mean the bad bulb(if this is the case) would have to be on the right side? It doesn't seem like it is a bad bulb though if the left side has less of a bad effect, yet still a problem. The ground issue is sounding more and more like it could be the problem.

[Reznik Akime]

Im a mechanic by trade and it sounds like you have a bad ground issue. Most likely a corroded ground wire near the fender in most gm cars. That is most likely the dim light problem.

You can try the hazard lights and see if they blink......It's very possible you changed the hazards blinker relay instead of the turn signal one......

Yep, sounds like that or increased resistance in the wires somewhere. Pull out that multimeter and get to proddin, buddy. If you know how to read schematics, try to get a haynes manual and look at the electrical system and see if you cant pinpoint where the fault could be.

[IFMU]

As a suggestion, get a Haynes and a Chilton? I think that is what its called? Sorry, cant recall right off hand. I have had to do some serious work on my blazer and noticed rather quickly one will have excellent info on certain parts while crap info on others. Noticing that together, they cover it rather throughly, but seperate, they are rather lacking.

[Reznik Akime]

Yeah, Clithon.. or whatever is a good one too although ive always used the Haynes for my blazer. How I love it.

[Foxie3a]

I bought a Hayne's manual on ebay. I got a little carried away on bidding, it probably would have been worth the $3 or so I saved and just bought it at an auto parts store, oh well. Atleast I bought a new one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8008975275&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT

I plan on taking the car to the GM dealership on Saturday. I only have one key, and it has a microchip in it, so I want to have a spare in case if I loose this one. While I'm there I'll see if they have any ideas on the problem, and maybe get an estimate. From there I'll see what the local mechanic has to say, and hear his estimate. Then I will take the information gathered from all my sources and start hacking away at my car with the help of the manual. :)

The part that the bulb plugs into looks very dirty and worn, even a little corroded. I am thinking that it might be a good investment to just go ahead and spend like $25 and replace all the lights, wouldn't have to worry about it again for a long time, aside from burned out bulbs. Who knows, maybe that's even the cause of the problem.

Anyone want to take a guess on how much these mechanics are going to try charging me for this? I think that if it ends up not being a quick fix it'll be like $400 or up.

[wdrzal]

Bad Ground

[trance565]

have you tried replacing teh fuses?
bad or weak fuses can cause things like that to happen, and seeing as it's an old car, you probably have some fuses that need to be replaced

[Soulburner]

Good choice on car, check out http://home.neb.rr.com/soulburner/My%20Ride/ for pics of my bird ;)

They are not exactly current as the car looks a little bit different now but i'll update it eventually...

Hope you get your issue figured out.

[Foxie3a]

I did look at the fuses before, and they looked like they were still good. But since they're very cheap I might as well replace the ones associated with the lights.

My manual should arrive any day now.

My plans to go to the mechanics didn't work out because of the DMV's stupidity. I was depressed about not having a car for a while, so I put off getting my license once I turned 18(since my parents wouldn't sign it when I was a minor) My appointment was for last Friday, but when I got there they said that I didn't have an appointment. After a minute of them searching on their computers they told me that my appointment was in Palm Springs, which is on the opposite side of California. It really pissed me off that I can't drive my car even longer now. I'm not risking driving it because I don't want it impounded. My next appointment(Hopefully they didn't switch it to Palm Springs again) is on Thursday, so hopefully later that day or on Friday I'll get some other mechanics' opinions and be able to buy replacement parts to figure out the problem.

Soulburner, that's a nice car you've got there. I want my hood to have intakes like that too eventually. You've probably got a powerful engine in there though like a V8, right?

[NickS]

That sir is the V8. You can tell by the RAM Air hood & dual exhaust :D.