Guide To Current WaterCooling Components

[MaxxxRacer]

In this guide I will give a listing of all of the current watercooling hardware on the market. For each item I will give a short description, along with the appropriate use for that item.

Most of the items in the guide are U.S. / U.K. based due to the largely english speaking and located readership. Also, most of the 'Euro' based components are not easily compatible with regards to fittings with 'American' components. As such, for simplicities sake I will omit them.

To purchase the items listed in this guide, check out my "stores" guide which is located here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67179).


CPU WaterBlocks


Non-IHS and Single Core IHS

1. Swiftech Storm - 75USD - this is the top performing waterblock currently in retail. It is better suited to more powerful pumps, but still performs well with low flow/power pumps. Apparently the Storm is no longer dsicontinued, but it seems there are now large price hikes, and somewhat limited availability.
Due to repeated incidents in which the storm is improperly installed, please be advised that the proper way to install the tubing on the storm is as follows: inlet in the center and outlet towards the outer edge.

2. Cooltechnica MP-05 LE - 50-65USD - a high restriction waterblock with excelent performance. while it does not outperform the Storm per pump power, its lower pricetag makes it an attractive choice. The newly updated LE version boasts higher performance per flow and keeps its price tage competitive with the Swiftech Storm. It is not know at this time, which one will take the performance crown.

4. Danger Den TDX - 52USD - while a good waterblock, it is not an optimum choice of waterblock for a high or low power pump system. I list it merely for completeness of the guide.

5. Danger Den RBX - 52USD - Again, a good waterblock, but not worth considering unless you have some desire for a 3 barb waterblock.

6. WhiteWater LE (all coper version) - 44USD - Origionaly designed by Cathar, this 3 barb waterblock performs well, but uses a dated design and is not optimal for maximum performance.

IHS Dual Core, Quadcore and Dual Die

NOTE:When using waterblocks on LGA775 boards I reccomend to use a motherboard backplate. You can purchase one made by thermalright HERE (http://www.jab-tech.com/Thermalright-LGA775-Bolt-Thru-Kit-pr-3605.html). It is called "Thermalright LGA775 Bolt Thru Kit"

1. D-TEK FuZion - 65USD - Semi-Controlled testing by some of our members have shown the FuZion to be an excellent performer with incredibly low flow restriction. An excellent choice for an SLI/Crossfire setup where all 3 blocks are on the same loop. Performance can be improved upon by adding a thin o-ring to the mid-plate as described HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=142998)

2. Swiftech Apogee GTX - 73USD - The top performing waterblock from Swiftech, the Apogee GTX is on top of the performance heap for its class, right along with the FuZion. The GTX uses a coated aluminum top, which Swiftech's Owner, Gabe had assured us will stand up to years of use and provides a lifetime warranty on the waterblock. Update: The black dye on the GTX does come off rather easily and it is suggested that the dye on the inside of the block be worn off with a toothbrush and mild solvent (say windex/dish soap) before use. The GTX has higher flow restriction than the FuZion, but overall is not very restrictive. The GTX ships with two O-rings, a normal sized one (installed) and a large one which will bow the base, improving performance. For more details on this go HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=142998) and check out Swiftechs Product page HERE (http://swiftech.com/products/ApogeeGTX.asp#).

3. Swiftech Apogee GT - 49 to 56USD - The vanilla version of the Apogee GTX, the 2 differences between the GT and GTX are that the GT has an all delrin top and the barbs are placed close together horizontally, whereas the GTX has the aluminum top and the barbs are placed far apart and positioned diagnally. The GT does perform a bit worse compared to the GTX but is slightly less restrictive (i should emphasise that the difference in flow is small) do to the closer barb placement. The different barb placement also means that orientation of the waterblock does make a difference with regards to performance, especially on dual die processors like Intel's Kentsfield. As with the GTX, 2 O-ring sizes are included.



GPU WaterBlocks


1. MCW-60 - 60USD (with ramsinks) 45USD (without ramsinks) - the MCW-60 is the next step up from the MCW-55. It uses the same base plate as the Apogee, and uses a molded delrin top. Currently the MCW-60 appears to be the top performing GPU waterblock and has very little waterflow restriction (lower than that of a Maze4). The 60 dollar version of the MCW-60 comes with 8 MCW-14 ramsinks, normally around 15 dollars. This waterblock is my first reccomendation for anyone shopping for a GPU cooling solution.


2. Danger Den Maze4 Acetal - 39USD - this is an excelent gpu waterblock with incredibly low restriction and great performance. I personally use one and generally reccomend them to everyone.

3. Cooltechnica MP-1 - 45USD - A newcomer to the gpu cooling segment, the MP-1 shows great potential, but with no publicly available data it cannot yet recieve my top reccomendation. With that said, sources say the waterblock performs several centigrade better than the Maze4.

4. Swiftech MCW-55 - 50USD - A revamp of the proven design of the MCW50. with improved flow characteristics it provides lower flow restriction and increased performance compared to the older, aluminum topped, MCW50. The waterblock performs on par with the Maze4. It should be noted that the performance data on this waterblock provided by swiftech should not be trusted. While their data is generally excelent, in the case of the MCW-55, it is.. in a word.. rubbish.

5. Cyclone Fusion HL - ~60USD - An Aussie waterblock of excelent construction and performance that is said to perform better than the Maze4. While this may be true there is no data as of yet to validate this. While an excelent block, expense make it a less attractive option. (As far as I know, Cyclone is no longer manufacturing waterblocks, but you can still purchase this waterblock at Petras Tech Shop while supplies last)

6. Danger Den Maze5 Acetal - 43USD - An update to the Maze4 design, the Maze5, according to Danger Den outperforms the Maze4. Currently there are no tests of the Maze5, but based on its design it should perform better than the Maze4 while being a bit more restrictive.

7. D-Tek FuZion GPU - 50USD - The newest GPU block to date, the FuZion GPU waterblock incredibly restrictive (by far the most restrictive GPU block on the list) and is not reccomended at this time.


Radiators

Before I list the products I will explain why I broke them up into two categories. There are generally two users out there: the gunho, tone deaf, noise doesnt matter, and the silent computerist. So to cater to this, I broke the radiators into the low noise and high noise orientated groups.

Note: With high power fans, the "high noise" radiators will outperform the low noise radiators, but when coupled with low noise fans the "low noise" radiators outperform the others.

Low Noise

1. HWLabs Black Ice Pro (1, 2 and 3) - 29-45USD - The Black Ice Pro's have been around for a long time and are excelent performers. Currently they are the only 2 and 3 fan radiators that are orientated to quiet computing.

2. Thermochill PA160.1 - 80-130USD (price varies wildly between retailers) - The PA160 is a revolutionary radiator designed in part by Cathar. It is a single 120mm fan radiator that performs close to that of dual fan radiators. Due to its expense (outside of the UK) to performance ratio its hard to recomend it in any but very special situations, but it is still a great radiator.

3. Thermochill PA120.X (120.1, 120.2, 120.3) - 80 to 120 USD - Described as the new king of cool, I highly reccomend these rads. They are pretty much the perfect radiator.. High cooling capacity while optimized for low noise fans.. Not much more you can ask for in a radiator. I should note that as of writing this there has not been any test data presented, but from calculations provided by Cathar, these radiators should not fail to live up to their name.

4. Swiftech MCR220-QP and MCR320-QP - 45 and 55USD - The creation of Bill Adams, formely of Swiftech, the MCR220-QP is an excelent low CFM optimized radiator. the MCR220 is positioned between the Black Ice Pro2 and PA120.2 with regards to performance. But the nice thing is that its very economically priced. At the time of writting, they are priced at 41.99 at CrazyPC. While a bit more expensive, than the BIP2, if you have the extra 10 dollars, it would be 10 dollars well spent. The MCR220-QP comes in two colors, black and blue. Currently, the MCR320-QP is the best bang of the buck when going for maximum cooling performance in a low noise setup.

5. CoolingWorks 22-T and 32-T - 44 and 60USD - Another radiator designed in part by Bill Adams, now of CoolingWorks, these two radiators have BIX like dimmensions, but have a lower FPI (12) which lends them to use with lower speed fans such as the yate-loons. No data is available at this time, but expect them to perform relativley similarly to the MCR series and Thermochill PA series (assuming same size radiators are compared; ie double, tripple) Their low price makes them an attractive option for those who cannot afford the PA series from thermochill.

High Noise

1. HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme (1, 2, 3) - 45-78USD - These radiators provide excelent high power fan (110+CFM) performance while having a lower pricetag than the Thermochill HE series. There are rumors that the HE's perform better than the BIX series, but I really wont make such a claim as I have not seen any test data to backup such claims.

2. Thermochill HE120.X - 80 - 120 USD - Formerly Thermochills main line of radiators, they are still an excelent choice if you plan to use fans that are over 110CFM. For users in the UK who want such a radiator the Thermochills would probably be a better choice (compared to BIX's) due to cheaper costs over there.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

Maxxx, good guide, but a couple things:
1) you make it sound like Fusion HL/SLs are impossible to get in the USA, but frozenmods (http://www.frozenmods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=19da6365cffa3349d4b863385f77da31) has them for 52 bucks. True, it's only one store, but still... It isn't impossible :)
also, what about pumps? I assume that's part of the "to be completed" :)

and you misspelled "acetal"... you really need to proofread your posts! :)

[HiJon89]

Maxxx, goof guide, but a couple things:
1) you make it sound like Fusion HL/SLs are impossible to get in the USA, but frozenmods (http://www.frozenmods.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22&osCsid=19da6365cffa3349d4b863385f77da31) has them for 52 bucks. True, it's only one store, but still... It isn't impossible :)
If you order tha block from FrozenMods all they do is send your order to Silverprop who machines your block and about a month later you should get it in the mail, not exactly the same thing as ordering a block from FrozenCPU and having it in the same week.

[MaxxxRacer]

as hijon pointed out, that is why i said what i said.. there is no quick way of getting the fusion hl in the US.. waiting a month for it is rediculous... just totaly rediculus..

I will proof read it when im done.. it will go into ms word at that point for spell checking...

yes there will be a pumps part too. BUT i DO have a pumps guide that is really long and detailed...

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

yes, yes, I suppose you do... but if C-Systems ever releases their "cathar's wet dream" pump I doubt there'll be a need for such a section ;)

[Mr. Tinker]

This is definately sticky worthy, but Maxx, I would refrain from recommending unreleased products (PA120.X). I know it's supposed to be great, but recommending it at this point is kind of like saying a movie that you haven't seen is great, even if you were talking about LOTR a week before it was in theatres. Dig?

[HiJon89]

I'm sure Maxxx has lots of info from Cathar on how it performs, that is, if Cathar hasn't already sent him one :p:

[MaxxxRacer]

Bloody, cooltechnica has the wet dream pump.. and it will be getting better if bruce can hammer out a better deal with panworld. What do you think of 130dollars for a crazy powerful 12v pump.. with low heat dump.

Tinker, its called Warez :lol:

anyone download a PA120.3 yet... i hear its on torrentspy :lol: lmao.

with regards to the pa120.3 performance, I have only spoken to cathar briefly about it, the rest of the info is on the forums... And unless Stew suddenly started lying to us all to sell products in which he has no vested interest, I believe we will have a new king of radiators on our hands.. just a crying shame it will cost and arm and a leg..

[Mr. Tinker]

Ok, my example was bad (I was thinking of a specific instance where a fellow student claimed that LOTR1 was one of his top 3 most influential films before he had even watched it) but I get your point.

Cathar's word is <STRIKE> good enough for an informal recommendation</STRIKE> gospel. Does he have his test bed up and running? What about yours?

Plus you left a disclaimer of sorts, so I'm satisfied. Sorry to nitpick.

[MaxxxRacer]

no worries.. nitpicking is needed.. always need ppl to check on what i write.. dont want to put garbage up there or anything that could be false..

my test setup is.. well its not a test setup.. I just got a job and after I get my car settled away (and a 3800 X2) I will start hording away money for a few grand in test gear...

and yes cathar has his test setup running.. afaik he has done alot of tests with the pa120.x and it.. well it pwns.

#incluide<iostream>
using namespace std
intmain()
{
if(!maxxxracer)
char mrTinker[999999]
{
cout<<mrTinker<<endl;
}
else
cout<<"woot I was not wrong\n";
return 0;
}

[Cathar]

I would still argue the description of the Storm, given that it is not bested in any reviews even when using pumping powers twice as weak as an Eheim 1046.

It's suited to strong pumps insofar as every block likes stronger pumps better. It doesn't just perform well with weaker/lower flow pumps, it is still unsurpassed even at this level.

Get yourself down to 1/4" tubing, an Eheim 1046, and a few other waterblocks in the loop, and now you're starting to get to a point where the Storm might be equalled by another block.

Yeah, I know I'm defending it 'cos it's my pride and joy, and I openly admit it, but given that time and again reviews show that it is unsurpassed even with pitiful pumping efforts I find myself struggling to comprehend the commentary that often gets associated with the block that it requires a strong pump to perform well.

It's my pet peeve. I spend months of development effort to create a block design that is not surpassed even at low flows, and still people categorise it as a high-flow strong-pump demanding block.

[moonlightcheese]

haha. maxxx has been taking some classes in C i see. *snickers*

oops... excuse the thread crapping

[/crap]

[HiJon89]

I would still argue the description of the Storm, given that it is not bested in any reviews even when using pumping powers twice as weak as an Eheim 1046.

It's suited to strong pumps insofar as every block likes stronger pumps better. It doesn't just perform well with weaker/lower flow pumps, it is still unsurpassed even at this level.

Get yourself down to 1/4" tubing, an Eheim 1046, and a few other waterblocks in the loop, and now you're starting to get to a point where the Storm might be equalled by another block.

Yeah, I know I'm defending it 'cos it's my pride and joy, and I openly admit it, but given that time and again reviews show that it is unsurpassed even with pitiful pumping efforts I find myself struggling to comprehend the commentary that often gets associated with the block that it requires a strong pump to perform well.

It's my pet peeve. I spend months of development effort to create a block design that is not surpassed even at low flows, and still people categorise it as a high-flow strong-pump demanding block.
But if you had a very weak pump the Storm might still perform best, but how would it affect the performance of any other blocks in the loop?

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

restriction goes down as flowrate goes down; something about an inverse square or something. So with lower flowrates initially, your netted flowrates would be less but not as significant a drop as if you were using like an MD100.
Also, Maxxx...
How does the AQX100/150Z stack up against:
10 meters head
3.3 gpm
25-30 watts
small (forgot the dimensions)

all posted by dave over at procooling.
But either way, theres some hawt new pumps comin up

[MaxxxRacer]

bloody... dont know if the AQX100Z can compete with that... those specs seem impossible.. the effeciency would have to be staggering.

it musnt get warm at all at 30watts of power usage as ALL of the power would have to go into pumping and NOT heat..


Hijon, that was my point exactly.. that is why i would choose the to go with the 6002.. the storm may beat it with nearly any pump, but the difference in performance would be incredibly small and would not overcome the detriminte (sp) to the rest of the systems performance (gpu waterblock, radiator and any other waterblock)

[Cathar]

You quantified that there MaxxxRacer?

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

how's this for a reason: MCW6002 is 35 dollars less than a swiftech storm.

[Cathar]

how's this for a reason: MCW6002 is 35 dollars less than a swiftech storm.

Was referring to performance only. I have no qualms about the MCW6000 being referred to as competitive at low flow, or even superior at extremely low flow, I just like things to be put into proper perspectives that's all. The Storm is no more suited to strong pumps than weak pumps, that's all I'm saying. Unless of course by "weak" we really mean so absolutely pathetic that the pump struggles to lift water even 30cm.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

true, true; the storm is the best across the board

[MaxxxRacer]

no, just theory.. examining the I still belive that the 6002 would be beneficial compared to the Storm to other waterblocks in a system.. especailly so if you are running dual gpu.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

if you're running dual GPU with a MCW6002 and an eheim 1046 or weaker, you might see better temps with the 6002 :-P

[Primoz78]

I prefere costum water blocks...here in my country there is a guy that makes water blocks and it is really a goog piece of copper...for NB, CPU and lately he made an GPU 6800/7800 full cover...he has also an home page...and sell the blocks in EU too...but I can`t put the link in here bacause it will be a commercial...and it is not allowed ;)

Regards,
Primoz

[Marci]

Maxxx... no biggie... was jus' wonderin' if you could amend this statement slightly:


Due to its expense to performance ratio its hard to recomend it in any but very special situations, but it is still a great radiator.

Just add "outside of the UK" in between expense & to :D

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

so get a good american supplier :-P
we NEED THEM!

[MaxxxRacer]

hmm... ill add it marci... lol. 45pounds isnt bad.. but when it gets over to america its like getting stabbed in the face with a CRT monitor...

bloddy is right on this.. we need a good supplier... there has to be some way to get around all those tarrifs and high shipping....

[Marci]

Cheers d00d...

Solution: Move to the UK :D

You're in the same boat now with our rads as we in the UK were 4 years ago with ANYTHING to do with watercooling... time will eventually resolve...

[Vandread]

How's this for a nice radiator solution:
http://www.moddershq.com/product.asp?idval=8
simple but effective..

[Brandon_Tyler]

How's this for a nice radiator solution:
http://www.moddershq.com/product.asp?idval=8
simple but effective..

Great rad, eh so so.. Shroud. Piss poor mounting system. Zip ties for mounting just isnt cool with me personally.

-Brandon

[MonkSP]

Thank you for this post. I am thiking to move from my XP-90c solution to WC. This clarified a few of my doubts.

[MaxxxRacer]

no problem Monk.

Marci: lol.. The UK is my families fargone homeland... But I think I would loose it with the insanely high taxes there.

Any chance of talking to a higher volume distrubutor?

[Vandread]

Great rad, eh so so.. Shroud. Piss poor mounting system. Zip ties for mounting just isnt cool with me personally.

-Brandon
Its cheaper then most solutions i have seen. And i dont care about "cool", i care if it works, is effective and solid ^^
Like i buy NMB 120x38mm fans which push 220m3/hour for only 6 euro's at a army dump shop, maybe they dont look cool (and bleu or something) but they sure blow nice and are relatively silent.

[Mastakilla]

how does the maze 4 CPU block perform compared to the swiftech 6002?

storm is waaaay too expensive, and i cant find the 6002 in the shop i wanted to shop...

[Eagleclaw]

Great guide, I do have a question about the Black Ice Pro, I am looking at getting a II or III but how do you recomment it be mounted on the outside or back of the case?

I suppose I could just get a Black Ice Pro "I" but the II and III look to be better.

[Marci]

Swiftech RadBox - or a homemade version thereof...

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCB-120.asp

[Phoenix-R]

Hey it was mentioned earilier by MaxxRacer that their was a pump guide already out for reviewing by the public. Anybody have the link for it?

[MaxxxRacer]

lol pheonix.. go to the main watercooling section of this forum. just one level up.. you will find all of my guides there

[Phoenix-R]

I knew that of course...I was just testing to see if you knew:rolleyes: . Gotta max sure you guys are up to scratch you know......that's what's newbies are for you know.

[MaxxxRacer]

of course phoenix.. lol.

[safan80]

what about adding a chipset and hdd cooler sections to your guide?

this one is suppose to be the Asus A8n chipset series
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=160&cat=46&page=1

you can also get it here and it's in stock
http://www.crazypc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=93911

me and a friend want to do WC but we want to cool everything chipset gpu cpu and hard drive (would also like to do ram)

[MaxxxRacer]

I guess i could add one, but I would add a disclaimer stating that cooling such items is not neccesary nor is it reccomended.

[safan80]

I guess i could add one, but I would add a disclaimer stating that cooling such items is not neccesary nor is it reccomended.

I would like to see you evidence as to why you saying that.

in terms of the A8n-sli deluxe a chipset cooler would be very beneficial with 2 video cards in sli. I've had both of the air coolers that Asus made for this board on mine and when the system is under full load the chipset gets close to 53C (idle is 36C). even with a 120mm fan the heat will tend to stay there because the chipset is like a pocket between the 2 video cards and it holds in the heat. Has there been someone that's cooled the the NF4 chipset and received no benefit? it just seems strange to me that no benefit would be had.

[[XC] leviathan18]

I would like to see you evidence as to why you saying that.

in terms of the A8n-sli deluxe a chipset cooler would be very beneficial with 2 video cards in sli. I've had both of the air coolers that Asus made for this board on mine and when the system is under full load the chipset gets close to 53C (idle is 36C). even with a 120mm fan the heat will tend to stay there because the chipset is like a pocket between the 2 video cards and it holds in the heat. Has there been someone that's cooled the the NF4 chipset and received no benefit? it just seems strange to me that no benefit would be had.


is uselss if you want better temps get a vantec icerberg 4 or disable the fan and put a 80mm diagonal to the chipset fan and you will see temps not higher than 40

[MaxxxRacer]

there is absolutley no gain from cooling the nf4.. absolutely none.. On the stock cooler you can get up to 450fsb. Infact I think the record for the nf4 was had using a dfi nf4 with the anemic stock cooler.

so yes, they are useless, and yes there is tons of data to support my statement.

end of story.

[FZ1]

Maxxx, goof guide
...
and you misspelled "acetal"... you really need to proofread your posts! :)

Am I the only one with a sense of irony? LOL.

Anyone know how the Apogees perform in comparison the Storm blocks?

[BRiT]

Anyone know how the Apogees perform in comparison the Storm blocks?

Yes. The Apogee blocks perform worse than the Storm blocks.

[Evil]

What to you think about this block: http://www.nexustek.nl/h2o2000.htm
Which one of these would be better: Swiftech Apogee or Alphacool Nexxos XP.

[MaxxxRacer]

That nexus block looks to be a dog. Cant be certain just by looking at it, but with the 3 barb design and micro tubing, its already a non-starter in my book.

Nexxos XP wil rape the Apogee, but the MP-05 is essentially a suped up Nexxos that uses larger fittings, and is cheaper, so really no reason to get the Nexxos if your in the USA.

[Evil]

I´m not in the USA and i can´t get the MP-05, so i´ll have to take the Nexxos. Thanks for answering, was very close to getting the Apogee.

[MaxxxRacer]

Nexxos is by far the best waterblock widely available in Europe AFAIK.

[cdelong]

what's the difference between the MP-05 SP/Pro/Extreme waterblocks?? I see they look slightly different and have different nozzles? Are the nozzes the only difference? Most places are giving the optional nozzle kit for free along with the waterblock.

TIA

[skane]

other question: what do you think about this (http://www.com-tra.de/shop/de_DE/produkt/lID_is_3662_and_LICS_CPU-Wasserkuehler_MASTERFREEZER-2_M-II_ohne_Halterungen.html) block? according to some german sites, it performs better than the nexxos, but would that be because they use weak pumps?

[malvare1]

What do I need to buy ? This will be for an opty 170 ccbwe 546
Could someone list all the parts and where could I get them. I would like to buy the best performer or maybe the second best :)
Also how do I mount this this to my expert board ?
thanks

[MaxxxRacer]

cd, the difference is the top plate material. Delrin/Brass/Plated Brass...... SP/Pro/Extreme

[Budwise]

any info on the MCR220?

[ewitte]

Is there a good high pressure GPU block? I'm putting the CPU on phase change. So the GPU will be the primary focus on the water pump.

[Viktor]

Hello, soon I will be able to complete my first watercooling setup, I already have some of the parts at home, I thought I should write them down so you guys could comment them:
CPU: Swiftech Storm
Gpu: Maze 4
Rad: Bix 2
Pump: Laing D5

Now I have some questions, will the pump be able to provide good flowrates, enough for the Storm block to work properly ?
And then it seems like the BIx 2 rad is a bit dated, I'm not all happy with this one, will it be enough to get good temps w/ my X2 and 6800GT gfx card ?
Last of all, which fans should I get ? I've checked around and found a Papst fan with 88CFM rated @ 38dB which seems like a good level between sound and performance. Let me know your thoughts abt this setup, every little bit helps.

[Nicksterr]

You will have no problems with flow rates with that setup.

[nop]

sorry for asking. Will it be enough if i'll get BIX to go with Storm, Maze4 and MCP655 pump ? Thanks.

[Nicksterr]

Hmm a single 120mm rad for a CPU + GPU? It will cool your components OK, but your temps will be rather warm. For that setup, you're going to want a dual 120mm rad.

[nop]

thanks Nicksterr, so which one should i pick between BIX2 or MCR220-QP for best performance?

Would MCR220-QP with Nexus 120mm Real Silent (36.87 CFM) give me a better result than BIX2 with Panaflo 120mm Fan FBK-12G12LH (68.9 CFM) ?

[Nicksterr]

I have the MCR220-QP myself and it handles my CPU + GPU quite well. Are those 2 brand fans your only choices? I'd suggest the Thermaltake Thunderblade fans. They move 78 CFM's @ 21dba. Well, it's more like 30dba to be honest, but that's still pretty quiet.

[MaxxxRacer]

The thunderblades are pretty good fans, but they do have a bit more motor noise than I would like.

[nop]

how about Nexus fan with MCR220-QP MaxxxRacer ? Thanks.

[MaxxxRacer]

I use the nexus fans (Yate-Loon) on a BIX and it does great with My Opteron 146 at 2.7ghz and vmoded X800GTO, and these fans would work even better on the MCR220..

That combination is what I reccomend for good perofrmance, low cost and silence.

[nop]

:toast: Thanks MaxxxRacer :toast:

[Gascogne]

Im going to upgrade some parts in my watercooling system but I have some questions Im wonder I could get some light on. :)

Current setup: (comp spec in sig)
Rad: BiX 2 (two papst 120mm 55.3cfm 26dB)
Pump: Hydor L30
Cpu: Antarctica

(Yes its some parts are from Asetek WaterChill KT12A-L20 kit ^^; )

New parts (to buy)
Pump: Danger Den D5
Cpu: Swiftech Storm
Rad: ?
My question here is, would it be better with a BiP 2 than a BiX 2 for my setup?

*edit*
A side question:
Would two 120mm Cooltek aluminum fans (44.7cfm 19dB) work well with BiP 2 if one wants lower noise and keep good cooling?

[MaxxxRacer]

Not sure what those Cooltek fans are, but if you can find it the MCR220QP would be a better choice for achieving silence over the BIP2.

But with your papst, the BIX2 is fine. I use two yate loons on my BIX2 and it cools an Opteron 146 at 2.7ghz and a Overvolted X800GO, so you shouldnt have a problem with the rad.

[The Dome]

From what I saw the Apogee performs very well agaisnt the Storm. I moved from the White Water to the apogee and saw a 2C drop in idle.
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/7715/results1uc.jpg

[MaxxxRacer]

Dome, those numbers are totaly bogus...

I in the coming weeks I will have real performance numbers for all the current waterblocks.

[The Dome]

They very well could be, I have no way of proving if they were legit or not. Right now I have a TDX and WhiteWater I can bench along with the Apogee if you would like? My sig is a bit outdated, sold one of the GT's to move for a X1900XT. So when I re-drain her I'll run some tests for you guys:)

But here is another test done all of Switech's blocks and it shows some what similar results, I would have trouble thinking that two sites fugged results.
http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/3691/image313mu.gif

[MaxxxRacer]

Dome, IIRC the picture u just showed is from Systemcoolings review. Robotech even stated that the part of the review you posted was pretty much useless as it showed the Apogee, Storm and MCW6002 giving the exact same core temp and that taking temps from the side of the IHS is a dubious prospect at best.

And not to be offensive here, but any results you can show with on die sensors will be bogus as well. Please keep in mind that I am not trying to single out the Apogee here, rather this is a general statement. If your results show the White Water winning by 4C over the Apogee (or reverse of that), I wont change my statements.

[The Dome]

No offense taken, how would you like me to record temps down for you, I do have external sensor that can placed directly inbetween the core and block (IHS off mind you).

[MaxxxRacer]

what kind of sensor could you possibly put between the core and block without killing the mount?

In any case a sensor thermal epoxied to the side of the core works relatively well.

[Viktor]

Well, since I broke one fitting on my storm block while mounting it, I have to buy new ones. They are not available here in Sweden so I have to order new ones from USA, guess how much the fittings cost ? Well, I can tell you, about 1$, guess how much the shipping costs ? Well, 32$ freakin' green ones. That's just stupid. :(

[MaxxxRacer]

ROFLMAO....

that sucks hardcore but its stil funny. I suggest you buy like 10 of them.. might be able to sell them to locals who have the same problem as u.

[ReD.SkY]

lol viktor, that reminds me, i forgot to get some Ciramique and i dont want to know the shipping price on it as i already bought everthing else... anyone want to sell me a half empty Ciramique tube? lol

Note: i am not kidding PM me $3 shipped sounds cool for a half used one lol

[Viktor]

Seriously, I'm really sad. Sucks to live in Sweden if you enjoy computers.

[Jochenp]

http://www.artcooling.de/index.php?load=shop;id=2;shopcatid=71;shopitemid=3 08;5cdeaa82f467c26221dab15636d2bb2770AC2851A69D94C A66F0F682AF0B52E3
Could this waterblock perform on par/ better than the M1 or the maze4 gpu?
I think it would be worth it to check this guy out, has some innovative designs

[MaxxxRacer]

Based on my professional guestimation, that waterblock will perform about on par with a Maze4 GPU.

[Okda]

gonna be waiting for ur results in comparing the apogee to storm MaxxxRacer before ordering my w/cing kit

[douirc]

perhaps i missed it, but i don't see any reference to the MCW60 gpu block. anyone know if this takes the lead?

[creidiki]

We're waiting on Maxxx's tests. Expect the block lists to be updated when he's done.

[andersson.j]

You can get the Silverprop Cyclone Fusion (http://www.petrastechshop.com/siwa.html) GPU blocks over at Petra's Tech Shop (http://www.petrastechshop.com) and it doesn't cost much more than a MCW60, MP-1 or Maze4. Maybe you should update the guide?

[MaxxxRacer]

I will...

[[XC] DragonOrta]

Typo in the Title of Swiftech Storm. Typed "Swifteh Storm", missing the "c"

[MaxxxRacer]

thanks. must have just done that as i just edited the thread.

[ReD.SkY]

GPU WaterBlocks

1. Danger Den Maze4 Acetl - 45USD - this is an excelent gpu waterblock with incredibly low restriction and great performance. I personally use one and generally reccomend them to everyone.

2. Cooltechnica MP-1 - 45USD - A newcomer to the gpu cooling segment, the MP-1 shows great potential, but with no publicly available data it cannot yet recieve my top reccomendation. With that said, sources say the waterblock performs several centigrade better than the Maze4.

3. Swiftech MCW-55 - 50USD - A revamp of the proven design of the MCW50. with improved flow characteristics it provides lower flow restriction and increased performance compared to the older, aluminum topped, MCW50. The waterblock performs on par with the Maze4. It should be noted that the performance data on this waterblock provided by swiftech should not be trusted. While their data is generally excelent, in the case of the MCW-55, it is.. in a word.. rubbish.

4. Cyclone Fusion HL - ~60USD - An Aussie waterblock of excelent construction and performance that is said to perform better than the Maze4. While this may be true there is no data as of yet to validate this. While an excelent blocks expense make it a less attractive option.

5. MCW-60 - 45USD - the MCW-60 is the next step up from the MCW-55. It uses the same base plate as the Apogee, and uses a molded delrin top. No performance data is available, but it should perform on par with the top sellers, the Maze-4 and MP-1. For 45 dollars the MCW-60 is actaully an incredible value as it comes with 8 MCW-14 ramsinks, normally around 15 dollars.


Ok... Acetal is spelled wrong lol

and for MCW60, $45 is the block only, and no ramsinks :)

[MaxxxRacer]

I was wondering about the MCW60.. looked at a few websites and some had it for 45 and it seemed like it had the ramsinks but i couldnt be sure.

thanks for the spell check.

[ReD.SkY]

hehe noo problemo :D

[MadMikeSS]

I was wondering about the MCW60.. looked at a few websites and some had it for 45 and it seemed like it had the ramsinks but i couldnt be sure.

thanks for the spell check.

Swiftech's own web store sells it for like $65 with ramsinks and $45 without.

[MaxxxRacer]

good to know

[Monge]

Swiftech has released a new triple MCR320-QP $56.95:
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/MCR320-QP.asp

And new hwlabs Black Ice GT posted by Radical_53:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1358156&postcount=43

Estimated price range:
$36-$40 for the GTS120
$43-$50 for the GTS240
$53-$60 for the GTS360


Cheers Monge :)

[killxswitch]

I was wondering about the MCW60.. looked at a few websites and some had it for 45 and it seemed like it had the ramsinks but i couldnt be sure.

thanks for the spell check.

Most websites I've seen have the copied and pasted Swiftech company description, which mentions the ramsinks. But, none of them I've contacted actually sell the block with the ramsinks for less than ~$65. They really should edit the product descritption on these sites, as it's rather misleading.

[MaxxxRacer]

Indeed it is.

[Paapaa]

7. Swiftech Apogee ... please try to avoid it as EVERY other block on this list performs superior to the Apogee.

Just to keep things even slightly under perspective. See these reviews to see how good or "bad" Apogee is when used with actual processors:

http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-35-9.html
http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_apogee-12.html
http://www.ocia.net/reviews/apogee/page5.shtml
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/testsetup-apogee.htm
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1182813&postcount=249

(This has been discussed many times, I just want to make sure newbies get all the facts.)

Summary: all the blocks perform practically identically when tested with real processors (using an IHS). The 1st test from Cooling Masters gives valid data for those who don't want to believe in integrated thermal diodes: Apogee heated the water more than Storm. So Apogee might even perform slightly better than other blocks (with processors having IHS: all new and future processors) but the results are most likely well within the error margin. I just think that a sticky should not use words like "superior" when that is obviously not the case. It should be mentioned that 14mmx14mm copper die simulator doesn't give results that correllate with real processor tests. Undoubtly the author already knows all this :rolleyes: (Let's keep the flame war elsewhere.)

[creidiki]

Lets keep the apogee out of it if we can, mmm?

I cant read french - if you can get me a translation, this might be the very first professional test of the apogee I see... but until then, all the data about it ive seen is dubious at best.

[Paapaa]

I cant read french - if you can get me a translation, this might be the very first professional test of the apogee I see... but until then, all the data about it ive seen is dubious at best.

You could try this:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

I also can't any French, but the translation should give you the idea what they did and measure. (eau == water :D ) Just ask if there is something which you don't understand.

PS. If 5-10 tests ("dubious" or not) all show that waterblocks perform practically identically, it should be clear that the "true" differences can't be very big. That is just common sense.

[MaxxxRacer]

Lee showed the apogee to actually perform worse on the calibrated test bed.

OCIA should be banned from the internet for their stupidity with regard to all reviews.

And Swiftech. While a great company it would take alot of convincing for me to really trust a companies word on their super duper fantastic product.

BUT the coolingmasters review is very good. While not the best way of measuring hte CPU temp, its alot better than some other reviews on the net. I would still have to say that the probe in the IHS is the way to go for real CPU testing. That or doing the diode mod.

[Paapaa]

Lee showed the apogee to actually perform worse on the calibrated test bed.

Lee also admitted that "Live CPU testing may be of more interest to the general water-cooling community who has no desire to remove the CPU’s IHS." Lee himself admitted that the "calibrated test bed" results don't seem to apply to modern processors with IHS. I also think that majority of users don't want to ruin the warranty of their processors. In my opinion you simply can't make any conclusions based on results from 14mmx14mm copper simulator. All the real CPU results support this view.


OCIA should be banned from the internet for their stupidity with regard to all reviews.

Maybe, but the data still showed 0 differences. If Apogee sucks big time, we would've seen even a very small difference. But no.


And Swiftech. While a great company it would take alot of convincing for me to really trust a companies word on their super duper fantastic product.

That is very true: I'd also take it with a grain of salt. But still, it still shows the exact same kind of results that all the other real processor tests.


BUT the coolingmasters review is very good. While not the best way of measuring hte CPU temp, its alot better than some other reviews on the net. I would still have to say that the probe in the IHS is the way to go for real CPU testing. That or doing the diode mod.

I think there are far better ways to test this so that we wouldn't have to rely on possibly misaligned temp sensors. A few ideas:

1. Test the overclockability. That is the ultimate goal: to run the processor as fast as possible and still stable. The only test has been made by Swiftech and it show a slight edge to Apogee.

2. Measure the temperature of the water: the more the water temp goes up, the better the block is. This can be done without radiator to remove that variable. Cooling-Masters most showed that Apogee heated the water more efficiently.

Bottom line: before we get better/more evidence you really should remove the comments suggesting that other blocks are "superior" to Apogee. That is just your personal opinion, not a fact based on test results. :nono: If you want to give all the facts, then state that Apogee didn't do very well on a 14mmx14mm copper simulator but does very well on real CPUs. If better tests come out, that can be changed to reflect the reality. I don't care whatever block is the best and worst but things should be kept in perspective.

[creidiki]

If 10 idiots tell you the world is flat, does it make them right?

[Paapaa]

If 10 idiots tell you the world is flat, does it make them right?

?? So you consider Lee/RoboTech an idiot? He made the copper die tests and he also said that they don't seem to reflect real world CPUs which have IHS installed. So I really don't understand your comment or your analogy. Could you elaborate? (lol, now I uderstand: you own Storm...)

A better analogy: 10 people tell the world is spehrical, 1 person tells it is flat but he also tells that his observation seems to be incorrect. Yes, I believe all of them.

[MaxxxRacer]

1. Test the overclockability. That is the ultimate goal: to run the processor as fast as possible and still stable. The only test has been made by Swiftech and it show a slight edge to Apogee.

2. Measure the temperature of the water: the more the water temp goes up, the better the block is. This can be done without radiator to remove that variable. Cooling-Masters most showed that Apogee heated the water more efficiently.

#1 is a VERY bad way to measure the performance of a waterblock considering how finicky overclocking is. you would need to use the same CPU and alot of CPU's degrade their overclock over time. Its just not even close to being reliable, and as far from scientific as you can get.

#2 is in theory a VERY good way, but the problem is that you need a 840EE at 5ghz (high volts too) and a HIGHLY accurate and calibrated RTD probe based system with atleast .01C resolution/accuracy. 0.001C resolution is preferable. And to be frank, i dont know of any publicly available products that give 0.001 resolution.

With a heat load of around 250-300 watts from an overclocked/overvlolted 840EE it would make the increase a bit larger than any other waterblock so measuring the dT would be eaiser, but still pretty dificult. Also, when you get up to around 3GPM for the testing, things would get even more dificult due to the dT decreasing

But in all seriousness, if you have a spare 100,000 dollars to spend on a setup like that (or however much it would cost as I have no real idea) then go for it as it would provide some VERY intersting data.

[Paapaa]

#1 is a VERY bad way to measure the performance of a waterblock considering how finicky overclocking is. you would need to use the same CPU and alot of CPU's degrade their overclock over time. Its just not even close to being reliable, and as far from scientific as you can get.

Of course it has to be done with the same CPU. But that way we would get actual data which should show the real difference between blocks. And who cares about "scientific" if the results don't have any practical meaning at all - as with Lee's results. If Apogee and Storm gave identical overclock on 10 different processors and Lee's 14mmx14mm copper simulator gives huge differences, do you still believe Storm is the superior block and everyone should "try to avoid" Apogee? Unfortunately we only have results from one single test (made by Swiftech and won by Apogee).


#2 is in theory a VERY good way, but the problem is that you need a 840EE at 5ghz (high volts too) and a HIGHLY accurate and calibrated RTD probe based system with atleast .01C resolution/accuracy. 0.001C resolution is preferable. And to be frank, i dont know of any publicly available products that give 0.001 resolution.

And the bottom line is again: if the differences (to one way or another) are that small, why would you recommend members to buy one block over another? I'm starting to believe that all who seem to reject all the real CPU data actually own Storm... I might be wrong.

[MaxxxRacer]

Of course it has to be done with the same CPU. But that way we would get actual data which should show the real difference between blocks. And who cares about "scientific" if the results don't have any practical meaning at all - as with Lee's results. If Apogee and Storm gave identical overclock on 10 different processors and Lee's 14mmx14mm copper simulator gives huge differences, do you still believe Storm is the superior block and everyone should "try to avoid" Apogee? Unfortunately we only have results from one single test (made by Swiftech and won by Apogee).
The biggest problem with using overclocking is that its not reliable. Not even close. You could for some wierd reason get better temps with a Maze1 than a MP-05/Storm/Whatever just based on the oddity of the CPU and the mounting system.


And the bottom line is again: if the differences (to one way or another) are that small, why would you recommend members to buy one block over another? I'm starting to believe that all who seem to reject all the real CPU data actually own Storm... I might be wrong.
Lets put things into perspective here. At normal flowrates (1.2gpm) the water does not heat up much per pass due to water high heat capacity. Because of this, even with a 10C delta in die temps, with my current equipment, I would most likely not be able to tell the difference. My equipment has a 0.1C resolution with accuracy worse than .1C. As pH (Derek) found out, the delta T for his 70watt heat load (not sure the GPM but i think it was 1.5gpm) was around .03C or so. so you see its VERY hard to meausre this, even if the difference between two waterblocks is large.

[omga14]

i can see the test here using the 14mmx14mm setup as most people here seem to remove at some point thier IHS to get a little(or alot in some cases) more overclock. you know, get a little more of an xtreme result:D

please take this as my personal opinion from what little i have read here in the forums and my still minimal knowledge in watercooling. just seems like at a forum like this where people are looking for that extra through any means the test Maxxxracer does is more relevant to the people here.

if three or four water blocks perform very closely with the cpu's IHS on but begin to show much different results with it removed. then it would be nice to know which block performs the best with the IHS removed. maybe if the funds and Maxxx's willingness are there, then there could be a test rig that would simulate a cpu with the IHS and another with the cpu naked. this way we could see both results and make our own decisions which way we will go in our purchasing choices.

in a nutshell, a waterblock that may not seem superior in one test will show it's worth in the other allowing the word to be used. especially when it comes to what i've seen as it is increasingly difficult to improve on watercooling blocks to any significant degree most would consider.

[Paapaa]

i can see the test here using the 14mmx14mm setup as most people here seem to remove at some point thier IHS to get a little(or alot in some cases) more overclock. you know, get a little more of an xtreme result:D

I agree 100%: if you remove IHS, then Storm is most likely the best block. The same applies to old Athlon XP which doesn't have IHS. But how many users really remove IHS ruining the 3 year warranty and possibly killing the processor? Is that really a common practice? It may also become more difficult if the IHSs will be non-removable in the future like in Pentiums - but that is just speculation.

And nevertheless this should be mentioned in the sticky!! My suggetion:

"If your processor has IHS, all the waterblocks will give you identical performance and you should buy the cheapest. If you remove IHS (and ruin your warranty) you will see some differences between various blocks."

[omga14]

haha, alot of the guys here don't really worry to much about removal of their IHS's. either way what you say is fair enough with me:D most(i won't dare say all) who do remove their IHS off the cpu are pretty well experienced with handling the procedure and know the penalties involved if they scew it up.

either way i can respect your arguement.

[MaxxxRacer]

"If your processor has IHS, all the waterblocks will give you identical performance and you should buy the cheapest. If you remove IHS (and ruin your warranty) you will see some differences between various blocks."

no offense but the first part of that statement is pretty ignorant and one that I will remedy in the not too distant future.

[Paapaa]

no offense but the first part of that statement is pretty ignorant and one that I will remedy in the not too distant future.

No offense taken, it really was meant to be provocative. It would be good if someone could shed a little light on this issue - IMO it is not clear at all.

[MaxxxRacer]

I am in the process of doing a waterblock review/roundup with an IHS capped winchester 3000 based system.. check my test rig worklog if u want some more info.

[Ironmon1]

Hi, y'all. I've been reading this thread with a bit of excitement because i'm going to be water cooling my next rig, and don't want to spend more than I have to. I read all of those reviews posted a while back of the apogee, including the french one (no translation needed, since I happen to be a native speaker of french :) ) They compared the storm and the apogee on two pentium 4 procs (with the IHS on!), and found that the Apogee preformed marginally better :eek: .
http://www.cooling-masters.com/images/articles/apex/images/results1.png
http://www.cooling-masters.com/images/articles/apex/images/results2.png
translation: eau="water"; valeurs mesurees="measured values"; ecarts calcules= "calculated differences" [in temperature]; ventilos="fans" don't get freaked out by the comma's, european people use them instead of periods for decimals, so 35.1 is writen 35,1 by a european. P4 EE results:
http://www.cooling-masters.com/images/articles/apex/images/results3.png
They go on to say that the storm preforms much better for procs without an IHS (or with the IHS removed) because it provides intense cooling power concentrated in the center, over the core, where as the apogee should preform better on proc's with IHS, and especially on dual core procs, where the heat load is spread out much more evenly over the surface of the proc assembly, instead of just over the core. that actually makes sense to me, but all the reviews i've seen of the apogee are with single core proc's. Could some one do a test of the apogee against the storm, and also against a block in the apogee's price range (such as the RBX) to see which does better on a Dual core proc with an IHS. I really don't care how the storm preforms on other proc's because i'll be building my rig with one of the soon-to-be-released conroe proc's. :D
I actually hope the apogee does better, because wouldn't it be awesome to have a block for 5/8 the price of a storm that gave the same or better preformance?
EDIT: there is a disclaimer in the review that states that the comparisons were between the 2 swiftech kits, APEX and APEX ultra, not a pure comparison between the apogee and the storm.

[creidiki]

Which completely invalidates any comparison between the blocks from that data.
Especially considering the ambient temps were .5-1c higher for the stomr tests.

[Ironmon1]

true...but still, it would be nice to see a pure comparison between the two, with a dual core IHS proc. On a side note, for an SLI watercooling setup, is it better to put the GPU blocks in series, with one getting hotter water than the other, or in parralell, with each getting half the flow rate? Also, will I still be able to get good cooling on my 2 GPU's if I use a storm water block? those max out at 2 gpm, where as the apogee maxes out a 3gpm. I will be using a D5 pump.

[creidiki]

series.

[Paapaa]

Which completely invalidates any comparison between the blocks from that data.

No it doesn't: the only difference in the setups was the block. How does it make the data invalid?


Especially considering the ambient temps were .5-1c higher for the stomr tests.

How did you make that conclusion? The Air-column shows higher values for Apogee, not for Storm! And they don't actually tell (if I understood correctly) what Air1 and Air2 means. It really seems to be the temperature of air that exits the radiator, not the temp of air that enters - you can see it from the picture on another page. You can also see also that ambient was held constant between 22-23 C (told on that another page).

For some reason the water got significantly hotter with Apogee than Storm. Maybe this is because more heat was transferred to water by Apogee - maybe due to faster flow? This would also explain the better CPU temperatures. It is clear that Apogee was the better block in that test - no matter how much you hate to see that result :)

[MaxxxRacer]

No it doesn't: the only difference in the setups was the block. How does it make the data invalid?

Indeed that does not invalidate the results as they were using deltas. If they didnt use deltaT's it would invalidate the testing, but since they did use deltaT's its fine.


How did you make that conclusion? The Air-column shows higher values for Apogee, not for Storm! And they don't actually tell (if I understood correctly) what Air1 and Air2 means. It really seems to be the temperature of air that exits the radiator, not the temp of air that enters - you can see it from the picture on another page. You can also see also that ambient was held constant between 22-23 C (told on that another page).

For some reason the water got significantly hotter with Apogee than Storm. Maybe this is because more heat was transferred to water by Apogee - maybe due to faster flow? This would also explain the better CPU temperatures. It is clear that Apogee was the better block in that test - no matter how much you hate to see that result :)

The air temp was at the intake of the fans. Remember that fanas blow towards the 4 (or sometimes 3) support legs where the wires are routed. Here is a pic of their setup. Air1 and Air2 are the temps for each fan intake. Its best to have intakes on both fans so that you get more even handed results.

Intel suggest 3-4 thermocouples per fan (bread probes not the big honking ones used in this test), but that isnt realistic for 99% of testers who dont have the data collection units that are rather cost prohibitive, especialy for high accuracy ones. (For instance, the high accuracy RTD unit from fluke costs 15k)

http://www.cooling-masters.com/images/articles/apex/images/sonde3.jpg

[Paapaa]

The air temp was at the intake of the fans.

Ok, I though the fans were pulling air from radiator. Did they mention that the fans were pushing air into radiator?

Nevertheless, the ambients were thus higher for Apogee and yet the CPU temps were slighly lower/equal. Had the ambient temperatures been equal, Apogee would've been even slightly better.

[MaxxxRacer]

they didnt mentinon it, but that is indeed how its setup.. So I would assume thats how they did it unless they thought it would be funny to take the picture like that and set it up differently.. but the french are funny like that. ;)

[Dtess17]

Ok well i've been reading this post for a little while now and it has my interest. So interested that i signed up for an account.


i am fooling around with the idea of water for my rig, because my opty is running a little warm and i'm looking to overclock it more

i've looked around and found that swiftech overall is a well respected company and makes a damn fine kit.

I've been looking into the apex ultra alot, and i've also been looking into to some different blocks, i thought the apogee block was good and was gonna buy it.

Now i will be the first one to say i do not know much about water cooling at all...

http://www.overclockersonline.com/index.php?page=articles&num=360&pnum=7

that seems to hint that the apogee block CAN be better than the storm.
I've seen a lot of talk about that block not being too good. Why? All the tests i have seen show it to be a solid performer in low and high flow settings.

Could someone help me out here?

[Paapaa]

that seems to hint that the apogee block CAN be better than the storm. I've seen a lot of talk about that block not being too good. Why?

A few possible reasons:

1. Apogee is cheap, Storm is expensive -> how could Apogee be better?
2. Apogee is manufactured in China, Storm is manufactured in USA -> how could something manufactured in China be better than something manufactured in USA?
3. Apogee uses "old fashioned" technology, Storm uses high-tech-jet-impingement-system -> how could old technology beat a new innovation?

This is all about impressions, not about facts. All the real CPU tests so far (including the one you posted) show that apogee is equally good/slightly better than Storm. Yet these forums have so many Storm fanboys bashing Apogee. Go figure...

IMO the difference is totally, absolutely insignificant between most waterblocks out there. Buy the cheapest/most beautiful and buy a large radiator. Radiator has soooo much more influence on temps than the design of the block.

[Dtess17]

A few possible reasons:

1. Apogee is cheap, Storm is expensive -> how could Apogee be better?
2. Apogee is manufactured in China, Storm is manufactured in USA -> how could something manufactured in China be better than something manufactured in USA?
3. Apogee uses "old fashioned" technology, Storm uses high-tech-jet-impingement-system -> how could old technology beat a new innovation?

This is all about impressions, not about facts. All the real CPU tests so far (including the one you posted) show that apogee is equally good/slightly better than Storm. Yet these forums have so many Storm fanboys bashing Apogee. Go figure...

IMO the difference is totally, absolutely insignificant between most waterblocks out there. Buy the cheapest/most beautiful and buy a large radiator. Radiator has soooo much more influence on temps than the design of the block.

Thanks for your reply. I think i might just get the apex ultra then, regardless of block seems to be a damn fine system. I was just wondering if it was worth it to buy a different block, but i guess not.

and to the possible reasons if people are really thinking along those lines.

1. More expessive does not always = better. Scythe Ninja is a lot less expensive than the Zalman 9500 yet they perform on par with a slight edge to the ninja in some cases.

2. Although i love the USA, and like trying to buy things from this country, let's face facts. Many of the products we use everyday are from a another country. I'd say most of our computer parts are.

3. Old tech new tech. blah blah. Sometimes things are a step backwards.
Intel has changed over to what many consider to be a old tech for the new procs. does that mean they are no good?

now my next question if i may, i understand that the rad size has a lot to do with the performace of a given system.

if i only plan to cool my processor at this point (oppty 170) what temp differences would i see from a single 120 dual 120 or a tri 120?

Also overall how much heat does each new component add to the loop? say i add my gpu's can a 2x 120 rad still handle that?

[creidiki]

quite a lot from single to double, not much from double to triple , though you will be able to slow down the fans a lot on the triple.

you should really make a separate thread for thhsi tho :)

[timpanogos]

A few questions:

1. I'm moving from stock fan to a maze gpu block on a 7800gt soon. I guess I need ramsinks, these as good as any? - http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=122&cat=57&page=1

2. do I need active air on those sinks? I have two 120mm case fans (input and exhaust), a 120mm active on my ram and a 90mm active on pwmic.

3. and who can tell me anything about this radiator - http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=48&cat=14&page=1 - is it a "noisy rad" or "silent" type. does it even compare to the ones Max suggested? This is my current rad - I'm moving to the DDC+ pump and Storm CPU water block - currently on Mag3 pond pump and DD TDX cpu block

Thanks

Chad

[creidiki]

1/2. they work ok without but youd want the swiftech mcr14 sinks for best indirect ariflow performance. ive got those as well.

3. noisy, cores need strong fans

[timpanogos]

3. noisy, cores need strong fans.

Part of the reason I'm asking all these questions, is that my son is inheriting the components that I change out and building his own system, so I’m spoiling myself with better components.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience with the dd provided dual 120mm heater core linked in my previous link. Would it be considered a noisy (crank some cfm to it), or a quite – does fine with moderate cfm. Or do the w/c custom dual 120mm rads out perform the old car heater cores?

Once again, here’s the rad .. http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=48&cat=14&page=1

Thanks

Chad

[creidiki]

Once again:

noisy. cores need strong fans. more specifically high static-pressure fans, in push-pull if space permits.

[timpanogos]

cool,when I bought that rad, I bought the two fans they marketed with it. They are silver and pretty and quite, and likely the wrong choice (they do not move much air). I'll design new mounting for push pull.

creidiki - thank you very much for all of your input! Much appreciated.

Chad

[found404]

MaxxxRacer: Can you add a fans section to the component guide? Would be useful as it seems to be quite a common question.

[Okda]

maybe tubes section wil be helpful

are those good ?
7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing

will be used on 1/2 cpu , gpu block and pump

[ReD.SkY]

yes, they are great, and cheap too

[Okda]

ok thanks

here are the final items i am going to purchase probably from PEtra's Tech Shop as a support for this forum's member and also since there is not other place with nice prices and available items ;)
AquaXtreme MP-05 PRO Limited Edition w/ Derlin MidPlate
Swiftech MCW60 GPU Waterblock
Laing D5/Swiftech MCP655 Inline 12vDC Pump
Swiftech MCR-320 "Quiet Power" Series Radiator - Black
7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing => 12 feet
1/2" OD T-Fitting (for 1/2" and 7/16" ID Tubing) ==> instead of a Res.

Subtotal for Petra's Tech Shop: 257.84

any sug. or better things i can get for the same price range and from same site ? i won't mind if u can suggest anything which may be cheaper and won't decrease the performance

[eXa]

ddc+

with storm and mp-1 the highe head would be useful!

[Okda]

i can't find the DDC+ on petra's site , and i need to buy all of my stuff from one place

so should i change the vga block to MCW60 just to decrease the flow restriction ??

[eXa]

i would do that anyway. wont get any different gpu tems, and dont need that high restriction on the gpu!

[Okda]

ok thanks for ur tip :)

[Okda]

since the MP-1 CPU block has the same design as the MP-5 Pro LE

but it only costs 48$ , does that means that the MP-1 is the best bang for buck and that i shall get ti instead of the Storm for 80$

MP-1 ==> http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpuncpuwab.html

MP-5 ==> http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpproliedu.html

the rest fo the system i am planning to buy is in post #131

[creidiki]

MP-1 has the same basic design yes, BUT:

Lower pin count.
No injector plates.

Keeping in mind that the non-LE versions of the MP-05 were very close to the storm, the LE with #3 plate should be equal at the least.

And the basic MP-05 is a little better than the MP-1 - more pins, and a midplate.

So youve got the whole gamut of block performance there, from mid-perforamance on a budget (MP-1) to peak performance at nearly storm levels (MP-05 SP LE or Pro LE w. #3 plate)

So, just decide how much cash you wanna spend on your CPU block, and buy the MP-05 that fits your budget (with delrin midplate pack or delrin #3 plate), or, indeed, just get the MP-1.

[Okda]

well if i can't find a better price to perfromance ratio block i will get the Storm for sure

but i don't want to buy it and find out that i could have got something cheaper which will differ only 1~2C @ load

ok then mp-1 is ot in my mind anymore

so from ur words the AquaXtreme MP-05 PRO Limited Edition which is 15$ cheaper than the stomr should give the same performance like the storm

if u were me which one will u get if money is not an issue ?


sorry for asking a lot and bothering u

[creidiki]

*shrug* for myself, i would get the MP-05 Pro LE and the Delrin Midplate Pack (for the #3 jet plate).

But thats aestetics, SP LE ends up consting the same (it comes with #3 already, just make sure to spend 1$ more on the delrin version), so the difference is all the top plate material, delrin or brass?

The MP-05 is more flexible as a block, imo, with the different midplates... and larger primary cooling area than the storm its not so naked-core-centric. But in the end you might as well choose which name youd like to have more in your sig.

Your choice.

If i dont manage to grab a Storm G7 ill probably end up getting myself an MP-05 to try on my opty :)

[Okda]

then the AquaXtreme MP-05 PRO Limited Edition it is with the Derlin Midplate :)

Thanks for ur help

but what about teh G7 ? where r u getting it from ?

My final list till now


AquaXtreme MP-05 SP Limited Edition w/ Derlin MidPlate
Swiftech MCW60 GPU Waterblock
Laing D5/Swiftech MCP655 Inline 12vDC Pump
Swiftech MCR-320 "Quiet Power" Series Radiator - Black
7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing => 12 feet
1/2" OD T-Fitting (for 1/2" and 7/16" ID Tubing) ==> instead of a Res.
Machined Delrin Fillport/T-Line Cap

[creidiki]

remember, you need the delrin midplate pack (7$) to get the #3(injector) plate with the Pro, it comes with the #2(X) plact as stock. if you cant get the plate pack @ petra you'll have to go for the SP.

G7? Im in the "interest list". I doubt I'll get in (cathar will be making less than 35) but one can hope :)

No, you dont need those for the pump, theyre for the MCW55.

[Okda]

ops seems that i won't be able to get the #3 from petra

then i will go with the SP

[andersson.j]

@ SaFrOuT: Your order from petras looks solid, but you should consider a few other alternatives too.

CPU block
Check out D-TEKs blocks, it's the same stuff as AquaXtreme. You can buy D-TEK from vcore.dk, they also sell nozzle kits (http://www.vcore.dk/shop/default.asp?SetLng=1&productid=1036). And why all this talk about MP-05 and noone mentions alphacools nexXxos XP? XP performs about the same as MP-05, slightly worse than storm. It's cheap too, only $50 from alphacool (http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/language/en/products_id/639/cPath/5_18_66_173/cpu-water-cooler-amd-64-am2/cpu-alphacool-nexxxos-xp-socket-754-939-940-fx-opteron.html).

Pump
I'd say this is the worst component in your list, why the D5? Sure it's better than most pumps, but I'd get a DDC-Ultra or 50Z instead. DDC-Ultra is cheapest at alphacool.com, they also sell 7/16" ID tygon (http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/language/en/products_id/4073/cPath/5_45_46/hoses---cutters/schl-tubing-tygon-r3603-15%2C9-11%2C1mm-transparent.html) (and nexXxos XP!). If you modify the original top (guide (http://systemcooling.com/mcp350_mod-01.html)) you can save a few bucks and buy the 18w DDC w/o plexi top. (DDC-1PlusT @ alphacool (http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_info.php/language/en/products_id/3739/cPath/5_26_267/laing-pumpen/pum-laing-ddc-pumpe-12v-ddc-1plust.html))

GPU block
MCW60 is a very good block, but at petras it doesn't come with MC14 I belive? Do you already own BGA sinks? A couple of GPU blocks that performs about the same is Danger Dens maze4, AQX/D-TEKs MP-1 and Silverprops Fusion. I chose Fusion because I like the way it looks.

Radiator
It's hard to beat petras price on Swiftechs rads! The closest thing here in Europe would be cooltek from ekwaterblocks.com, he also sells the best G1/4 1/2" barbs there is!

AquaXtreme MP-05 SP Limited Edition w/ Derlin MidPlate
Consider D-TEK and nexXxos XP too.
Swiftech MCW60 GPU Waterblock
What about BGA heatsinks?
Laing D5/Swiftech MCP655 Inline 12vDC Pump
A DDC-Ultra or 50Z would probably perform better?
Swiftech MCR-320 "Quiet Power" Series Radiator - Black
A good, cheap rad! Cooltek from EKs is the closest thing here in Europe.
7/16" ID (5/8" OD) Masterkleer General Purpose Clear PVC Tubing => 12 feet
I haven't tried masterkleer yet but it's supposed to be good.
1/2" OD T-Fitting (for 1/2" and 7/16" ID Tubing) ==> instead of a Res.
Keep in mind that it's 1/2" OD which restricts the flow. Vcore.dk sells 1/2" ID T-Fittings.
Machined Delrin Fillport/T-Line Cap[/COLOR]
Probably the best fillport there is. There's no european counterpart.

[creidiki]

Nexxxos: because hes buying from petras.

Pump: because hes buying from petras

GPU: because he's buying from... need I go on? hes having it all shipped to egypt as i understand, its gonna be a small fortune in shipping withoug using 10 different shops.

As for the barbs, MP-05 uses DD Highflow 9/16UNF thread 1/2 barbs which are the same barbs as sold by dtek *breathe*

(edited for capslock *punches keyboard*)

[andersson.j]

I know he's buying from petras. But sometimes you can get better performance at about the same price if you order from two stores instead of just one. Especially if the second store is located kinda close, like german alphacool. I'm not sure that's the case this time but he should at least consider it.

CPU block/Pump
Petras also sell the 50Z? An 18W DDC + NexXxos XP from alphacool and the rest from petras would probably give better performance at about the same price? He can probably get nexXxos XP locally too.

GPU block
Even if he's buying from petras he needs to cool the GPU mems? I just pointed out that if he don't already own memory heatsinks he should add a pack of MC14 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/swmcbgamerap.html). I also mentioned a few other blocks that's equally good. I'm not saying he should choose one of them instead but at least he should consider them.

Barbs
I know that AQX/D-TEK use 9/16-18" NPT barbs. But MCR-320/cooltek, DDC-Ultra use G1/4". (and maybe the fillport too?) EKs shipping is really cheap, at least to Sweden. So maybe a cooltek rad from EKs would be cheaper than a Swiftech from petras? I don't know but he should consider it.

EDIT: Btw crediki what's that hi-tech gun/space ship in your sig?

[creidiki]

Aye, to sweden. But i think i talked to him about shipping costs - or another dude from egpyt, and I seem to remembers its terribly expensive. And from what I understand someone else is actually buying the stuff from him, so keeping it simple is a concern.

Well, if he tells us it isnt then lets go crazy, DDC-Ultra and EK barbs and whatnot. Id still take the MP-05 over the Nexxxos tbh, but its a good alternative.

Well, thats why I havent been suggesting the stuff youre mentioning at any rate. As for the barbs, EK ones are very good, theyre nearly 7/16ID. You cant actually get 1/2ID G1/4 because the walls would have to be ~ 0.2mm thick or something.

The ship in my sig is an Armageddon-class Battleship from EVE-Online, screenshotted just after having blown up something BIG (hence the 'splosion)

[The_End]

thanks for the info, really helped :)

[andersson.j]

Well if he's only gonna buy from one store, petras sure is the one! If he sold 18W DDCs with delrin tops, ThermoChill or Coolingworks rads and more barbs and stuff it would be the ultimate wc shop!

I'd also choose MP-05 over XP since XP has a lots of narrow elbow channels in the top thanks to the stupid mounting mechanism. It looks kinda boring too. It's biggest advantage is that it's cheap and easy to get in europe.

EKs barbs are almost perfect. If they had a slightly bigger ID, a slightly sharper tip and where made of copper they would be perfect. :)

[Okda]

@ andersson.J as creidiki mentioned ( Thank you ) i live in Egypt and those stuff are for me personally and not gonna sell them ( maybe if i got them with a nice shipping + taxes + cutoms cost i may start getting other kits for selling but not this kit )

so the point is that i can only buy my stuff only from one site either from the USA or UK and nothing else and for sure i think USA is the better option

Petra also can ship directly to me while every other site in the USA will force me to ship to a friend and then he ship it to me which will cost more

so about the CPU block and GPU block and Rad i am pretty happy with those selections and if i will change anything it will be the cpu to Storm but i will follow creidiki and get the MP cause i trust him, and yes i already have ram sinks on my vga which came with teh VF-700 ( not the perfect solution but still enough )

about the pump Petra's have AquaXtreme 50Z-DC12 so will this be better than the MCP655 with the MP-5 in the lopp and a MCR-320 rad ?
if yes then i will get it cause i think 9w is for sure better than 24watt but will it be able ot handle the high res. cpu block and large Rad + the vga block

Also i have a friend who live in Netherlands and he can get me the stuff with no shipping or tax or cutoms costs but teh problem is that i haven't found anything good their to convinve me save and buy from NL and not the USA with the extra cost

can anyone living in the NL suggest me w/cing setup from any site there which SHOULD be as good as the one above form the USA or atleast not far behind ?

just foudn this site http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/491 bt i can't find a complete setup that will match the one i have chosen from PEtra

[creidiki]

Nah, esp with the recent 50Z batches being noisy, i say take th D5 for your triple rad. The head on the 50Z would cope with that loop fine though.

[Okda]

then it is the D5
Thank you creidiki very much for ur help

[drunkcarlos]

But thats aestetics, SP LE ends up consting the same (it comes with #3 already, just make sure to spend 1$ more on the delrin version), so the difference is all the top plate material, delrin or brass?


so other than the midplate difference and top plate being nickel plated brass or delrin, is there any other difference between the MP-05 SP LE or Pro LE? Is there a reason you'd want delrin over the brass or vice versa? I'm looking at picking up one of the MP-05 LE's, but not sure if one is more advantageous than the other. I realize everyone likes the #3 midplate and that would be my choice as well, but I'd still get the delrin midplate kit regardless.

[creidiki]

No. Well, brass is heavyer so I suppose it puts more stress on your mobo or die but its still a heck of a lot better than a 600g airsink lol.

[Okda]

in gas stations they seel the green ( sometimes it is blue ) water made specially to use in cars' radiater which is known to have better heat transfer rate than water + stop rust ( i know it is useless for computer's w/cing ) and has higher boiling point

is using tihs water instead of distilled water will be better or atleast won't give worse performance since it looks more nice that normal transperant water

and won't it harm the pump in anyway

[Okda]

no one have any info about teh green water used in the car's Rad ?

[phextwin]

in gas stations they seel the green ( sometimes it is blue ) water made specially to use in cars' radiater which is known to have better heat transfer rate than waterAccoding to whom? It just sounds like a standard antifreeze+water premix. Which would lower the heat capacity of the water and raise the viscosity (if it is an ethelyne glycol based soloution) and thus lower it's cooling performance. (ever so slightly though)
is using tihs water instead of distilled water will be better or atleast won't give worse performance since it looks more nice that normal transperant waterI'd bet money you wouldn't notice the difference cooling wise.
and won't it harm the pump in anywayPump will be fine.

[Okda]

thanks for the info

cause here in Egypt u can't get at all a di-ionized water + finding a REALLY distilled is very very hard and in the end it won't be as distilled as u imagine

and i forgot to order the HydrX with my order from Petras and it will cost me around 40$ to order it by itself

so i am searching for the best solution for me now

this coolant in the gas station has a label on it saying that it is made of Glycol G30 and there is another verison with G34 , does this make any sense ?

also due to our hot wether antifreeze and water wetter is not available any where

[phextwin]

You don't have distilled/demineralised/deionised water at your supermarkets? Have you looked at a mechanics too?

The coolant will be fine BTW.

[ReD.SkY]

just distilled will be fine...

[Okda]

demineralised/deionised is a dream

and i don't trust the distilled water which si sold in the gas stations at all

all i can use is this untrusted distilled water or the coolants sold there to be used in Car's rad

[ReD.SkY]

ur not near a supermarket.... water such as alhambra or arrowhead (if its exported to egypt lol)

[Okda]

no it is not
i did my homework and searched with ZERO results

i know someone who work in the swimming pool area, i will ask him what do they use to avoid algue

[dietwaterrr]

no it is not
i did my homework and searched with ZERO results

i know someone who work in the swimming pool area, i will ask him what do they use to avoid algue

Usually people just add drops of iodine to prevent algae.

[ReD.SkY]

yah, pool people use chlorine (almost bleach)

so iodine is what everyone recommends to me

[Okda]

i foudn the perfect solutiong, here in EGypt they sell distilled water for medicine stuff in the pharmacy, so i think i will use it

but what is that iodine ?? is it something related to pools ? like chlorine

and won't it break or damage the Cu or plastic in the loop ?

[Deve]

I dont wanna open new thread so i'll ask here.

I ordered some WC-stuff.. PA120.3 MP-05 PRO LE and DangerDen Maze 4 Standard Profile.. But the shop accidentally shipped me the Low Profile Maze 4. And now they aren't no more stocking that SP model of it for some reason. So i'll asked them to ship me that MP-1 GPU-block.

But since both MP-05 PRO LE and MP-1 are quite restrictive I would like to know if my pump (Laing D5) would be able to handle that restriction.. Or should I use that Maze 4 LP that I already got and shave off a bit from the ramsinks so they would fit nicely?

[Okda]

the MAze4 LP has the same performance AFAIK as the SP one,so yes keep it and start installing them, beside don't forget to show us some pic of ur setup when u finish it

[Jochenp]

No distilled water?
What water do you guys use to iron your clothes then?

[FLMJIGGY]

Hello and GREAT guide.

I'm just getting into WC and looking for a cpu block. I searched for the Swiftech MCW6002/6000 but they seem impossible to find. I was also looking for an all copper but that is hard to find too. What's a good block that can be "universal"? If that is not possible than what is the "next" best thing? Really don't want to go over high $50's. from reading it seems that pure copper is best way to go.

I have a micro case
Swiftech MCP350 pump
775 socket
Live in US

I'm getting the Swiftech h20-120 and looking for a different h2o Block. It comes with the apogee but looking for something "better" in the same price range or high $50's.
Should I just stay with the Apogee?

thanks

[Okda]

http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpuncpuwab.html

[Viktor]

Is clearflex tubing usable? Because I'm rebuilding my setup and Tygon is very, very expensive here in Sweden.

[Kain XS]

Is clearflex tubing usable? Because I'm rebuilding my setup and Tygon is very, very expensive here in Sweden.
Yes. it is.

[FLMJIGGY]

Thanks Safrout... :)

Anyone else an opinion???

I read the sticky and it doesn't seem to give the Danger dens such a good "rating".

Storm is too much (plus I don't hink the pump can handle) and the Swifties 600x impossible to find. Danger Den seem to be okay but for price and reading stickies seems that one can do better.

I have the Swiftech h20-120 kit coming and the Apogee will probably stay in New box.
I have a Qpack with an ATX board
Swiftech MCP350 pump
For 775 socket

[daze]

why in d 1st page..is Apogee so bad compare to others??

[daboogas94e]

im totally new to the water cooling relam and i've been doing some reading on this.

1. kits can be a pain when wanting to upgrade?

2. im looking for the best performance, period. what should i be looking for in pumps, rads, CPU blocks, and GPU blocks (im running SLi so thats an issue with space between the #1 and #2 card)

[septim]

http://www.petrastechshop.com/wacoki.html

highly recommended WC parts by the people reading this forums
also if you need upgrade, they'll probably have it too...

[ScottFern]

I am currently using a Koolance case for watercooling and we all know they have low flow pumps. However I wanted to maximize my cooling ability and I wanted to know if there is any other blocks besides the Swiftech STORM that will work better with my low flow setup?

I am currently using a Swiftech STORM block, but is it worth it to switch?

[rhkenji]

I am currently using a Koolance case for watercooling and we all know they have low flow pumps. However I wanted to maximize my cooling ability and I wanted to know if there is any other blocks besides the Swiftech STORM that will work better with my low flow setup?

I am currently using a Swiftech STORM block, but is it worth it to switch?

woo.. i dont think that your pump is good enough for the storm.. youre not really maximizing the storm's capability..

if you like you can ditch koolance's pump for another stronger pump. you can keep your radiator and fan with koolance's fan regulator.

[Batman!]

Perhaps something like apogee or the such for low flow? Like the above said. Sell the kit and spend that money to get something actually worth while. No point in wasteing your money over a lost cause..

[septim]

why not use ddc+ pump...

[ScottFern]

I guess I forgot to mention this. I have a Koolance watercooling case. It's all completely built in and I can't get new parts unless I get a completely new setup.

I need a better waterblock and thats the only thing I am considering. I need something 3/8" preferably.

[septim]

storm or apogee blocks with 3/8 fittings?

[ScottFern]

nevermind, I just ordered a MCW6000 with Socket 775 adapter.

[dimasdw]

1. HW Labs Black Ice Xtreme (1, 2, 3) - 45-78USD - These radiators provide excelent high power fan (110+CFM) performance while having a lower pricetag than the Thermochill HE series. There are rumors that the HE's perform better than the BIX series, but I really wont make such a claim as I have not seen any test data to backup such claims.


so BIX not perform well in fan with CFM is lower than 110 :(

[ReD.SkY]

so BIX not perform well in fan with CFM is lower than 110 :(

correct, a BIP will outperfrom a BIX with low CFM fans

[JoeBar]

BIX with low cfm fans needs a push/pull config and that just to be on par (or even a bit worse) with a BIP with push only.

[Timmay]

@ MaxxxRacer

I am currently building up a water kit for the system below.
The parts I have chosen are:

DangerDen D5 Pump
DangerDen BIP2 two pass RAD
Tubing to suit - all compontes are 1/2
I will not have a chip set block in my loop. And I highly doubt I will add a GPU block either.
I am currently looking for a CPU block and are in the process of reading through review ect. One thing that strikes me is you not recommending the Apogee.
Under the review found here (http://www.systemcooling.com/swiftech_apogee-06.html), they did a comparison between the Apogee and the storm, and found no real differance in end result temps.

http://www.systemcooling.com/images/reviews/LiquidCooling/Swiftech_Apogee/image32.gif

Gathering parts down in New Zealand is quite a task, especially more exotic ones. The Apogee is readly avaliable, along with the DD TDX/RBX - the Storm how ever is not. Is there that much differance between the two that would warrent the price jump (potentially twice the cost of an Apogee - if i could find one) for the Storm over the Apogee?

Awaiting your comments.

[creidiki]

Maxxx is very busy right now. Please make a new thread if you want to discuss something like that.

[Timmay]

Thanks.

[Demo]

What a rad box for ??

[flabeachbum]

to connect your rad to your computer

[eXa]

to hang the rad from the back of the case. just search a bit, look in the pic thread....

[septim]

like hanging your rad at the back of your case
from an 80mm - 120mm fan hole, attach radbox, attach rad...
or make some standoffs from long pcs of screws and some copper tubing
making sure that your screws will not pierce rad chambers!!...

[Reflex1]

why does the guide not include the Alphacool Nexxxos XP CPU waterblock? i have one of these and they perform very well. review:

http://www.procooling.com/index.php?func=articles&disp=132&pg=1

[JoeBar]

Cause maxxx is too busy right now... ;)

[_G_]

does anyone know if the
Low Profile Acetal MAZE4 (http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=161&cat=47&page=1) fits (along with the GPU) in two slots?
I have a x1900xtx that i gave up on finding a non crap aftermarket aircooler for it(AC makes a nice one for HIS but does'nt sell it aftermarket)
thanks

[JoeBar]

Yes it fits.

[MaxxxRacer]

I didnt include the Nexxos because it is essentialy a higher restriction, lower performane MP-05 (noting that hte MP-05 takes alot of its design from the nexxos XP) and for US residents the XP costs more, has lower availability and has less customer support (the manufacture resides in germany).

BUT with all of that said, if you are in the EU and dont have access to the storm or mp-05, then its an execellent block.

and as I say in my sig, please send me a PM and I will respond as quickly as I can.

Anyway, can someone get me the US pricing on the Nexxos XP. PM me with the info please. Once I get that I will upate the cpu block guide.

[JoeBar]

U're right maxxx as for Nexxxos XP rev1. Nexxxos XP rev2 is less restrictive and about the same performance with MP-01 (with MP-01's advantage in higher head pumps or less restrictive loops).
I haven't tested both blocks to have a proof of this, but according to Radical (who used both) this is the situation, more or less.

[Reflex1]

in europe (where i am) the nexxxos is the only decent block available directly. thats why i mentioned it. id prefer to use my original whitewater block but i cant find 775 mounting hardware anywhere ...annoying

US residence can order the nexxxos from the alphacool website. they ship worldwide if u have paypal.

[Jupiler]

The Nexxxos Xp can be had for 49.95$ at Performance pcs, so cheaper than the MP05.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=199&zenid=dd955df0d0106b45f459593ba1aa985b

And the Nexxxos Xp is a very solid performer, certainly on par with the MP05.




I didnt include the Nexxos because it is essentialy a higher restriction, lower performane MP-05 (noting that hte MP-05 takes alot of its design from the nexxos XP) and for US residents the XP costs more, has lower availability and has less customer support (the manufacture resides in germany).

BUT with all of that said, if you are in the EU and dont have access to the storm or mp-05, then its an execellent block.

and as I say in my sig, please send me a PM and I will respond as quickly as I can.

Anyway, can someone get me the US pricing on the Nexxos XP. PM me with the info please. Once I get that I will upate the cpu block guide.

[JoeBar]

It's only downside, according to my liking, is that it uses plastic clips (like the ones on the intel retail hsf). They are very convenient (u can change cpu without removing m/b) but they haven't a "secure feeling" and the plastic wears easily if u swap cpu's often.

[marauder16]

just one question guys: Is MCW60 better than MAZE4 in terms of performance?

[Okda]

no they are all teh same

the MCW60 is only less restrictive

[marauder16]

no they are all teh same

the MCW60 is only less restrictive
thnx for teh replay

[rpg711]

basically the guide can be summerized like this, aquaxtreme rules
MP-1 and MP-5 rules
THERMOCHILL ROCKS UR SOXORS

[Okda]

Storm 2 Rules more than MPs :P

[creidiki]

Actually the restriction of the MCW60 and Maze 4 are much the same... the Maze 4 is possibly a little less restrictive and a little less performing, but as there's about 1c diff between a Maze 4 and an MP-1 on an X1900XTX...

As for MP-05 LE vs. Storm v2, the storm wins on performance but looses on barbs and mounting - and if you get an MP-05 Pro LE from Petra's, price as well.

[Exedy]

triple radiator has big difference to dual? And thermochill HE is so much better than Black ice xtreme 3 ?

:)

[creidiki]

Its better.. dont know if its that much better, not much interest in radiators designed for 130CFM+ per fan these days... probably on account of 3 150CFM deltas make your room sound like a car assembly line.

[Foxy_PT]

Hey dude,

I&#180;m going to buy a new WC sistem, but i was wondering if the guide is still up to date, i ask this because im buying acording to it...
Need some help on the chipset also.

[septim]

http://www.petrastechshop.com/wacoki.html

here's a link, go choose from it what kit you require, and start a new thread or read some previous thread (september thread) that has almost the same questions answered by us...

Petra's kit are highly recommended here.

[Foxy_PT]

Thanks man :)

Im going to do a little search :banana:

[krueml_]

Good evening ;)
could you tell me the exact size of a Thermochill FG 120.3 (PA) please?? Thank you.. :)

[andersson.j]

Good evening ;)
could you tell me the exact size of a Thermochill FG 120.3 (PA) please?? Thank you.. :)
ThermoChill.com holds all the answers.

But here's a PDF (http://www.thermochill.com/guides/PA120-3.pdf), more info can be found in the Thermochill Faq & Detailed Dimensions (http://www.over-clock.com/ivb/index.php?showtopic=5900) thread over at the O-CuK Forums.

[krueml_]

aah great. Thank you.. :)

[afireinside]

As for MP-05 LE vs. Storm v2, the storm wins on performance but looses on barbs and mounting - and if you get an MP-05 Pro LE from Petra's, price as well.

Not like you can't switch the barbs if you can't deal with plastic and it's the same mount, just stick 4 springs on 4 rods and use 4 nuts to tighten them down.

[rpg711]

Thanks man :)

Im going to do a little search :banana:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/pecogpuel.html
thats the one i would choose

[Xion X2]

Is the Storm compatible with LGA775?

[thunderstruck!]

Is the Storm compatible with LGA775?
It's compatible with every socket..

[Bad213Boy]

Not like you can't switch the barbs if you can't deal with plastic and it's the same mount, just stick 4 springs on 4 rods and use 4 nuts to tighten them down.

i know im switchin as soon as i can get my hands on some EK barbs :dammit:

[Seanie's Show]

I recently purchased a Swiftech Apogee swapping from a DD TDX block as I unfortunatly brought the BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD info on the Swiftech web site.

Ive been using this block now for a couple of months, however a couple of days ago I was stress testing my CPU (AMD X2 3800+) using Stress Prime orthos edition, opened up core temp, I noticed that one core temp was around 55oC and the other was upto 72oC :slapass: , any how this CPU has recently died and gone to heaven, (Mrs's nagging fault) :fact: , so I nicked the CPU out of her machine an AMD X2 4400+ :D , started overclocking it, while stress testing once again with orthos edition of Stress Prime, and Coretemp runing, I noticed I have the same problem with this cpu, one core hanging around 55oC and the other upto 70+oC :mad:

I find it very strange that 2 different CPU's can be suffering exactly the same problem. :confused:

Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

My water cooling set up consists of the swiftech water block, Swiftech Hi flow Micro Res, Laing D5 Pump, and a Black Ice II stelth dual 120mm Rad.
A DFI Ultra-D mobo, AMD X2 4400+ CPU, 2gb Team Xtreem Microns, all bundled into a Gigabyte Poseidon Case, with a Gigabyte Geforece 7600GT Silent Pipe II GFX Card, 2 x WD Raptor 36gb HD's in Raid0, Sony DVD-/+ R/RW/RAM drive, sorry sig needs updating :p:

[popobag]

I have this setup for my system I'm going to buy but I would like your opinions about what I chose since I'm still noob in this :P.
Maybe I should get other cooling components or more ?
Link: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124976

[septim]

popobag i would suggest starting your own thread in the water cooling section
and close that thread you have in the open discussion.
so that we here at the water cooling section could give you advice.

[popobag]

ok I will

[Fixt00l]

I am so confused...everyone says different things here...What should I do to get my hands on a very good and SILENT WC?!

[serialk11r]

theres this pump, its sold on dangerdenstore.com, called the mag 2 LE, which performs sorta crappy but is supposed to be reli small and reli quiet. Its like diameter of a mouse. 2 of them should pump as much water as a single strong pump, and silenx fans, plus decent radiator.

[Okda]

according to some owners review on this forum the mag is very noisy

[serialk11r]

according to some owners review on this forum the mag is very noisy

Hmmmm... Some other review said it was very quiet.

[Methylphenidate]

The Mag II LE is respectable for the price, but quiet it is not. It vibrates far too much to be silenced easily.

Subjective listening tests between the MCP350, MCP655, and Mag II LE put both of the Swiftech pumps *much* quieter.

[septim]

if you say vibrates too much then there are ways to remedy that, proper decoupled mounting, gel pad, neoprene pad....

now if you say the motor and impeller is noisy when running (fully Bled loop), then there's no remedy to it, buy yourself a new pump.

[spudnik]

Friend bought a Mag-II LE, loved it at first but then it got really noisy after a month or two.

Buying a cheap pump is like buying a cheap pacemaker IMO

[Viktor]

When using the EK fittings on a storm block, am I suppose to use the original o-rings that came with the block aswell as the o-rings that came with the Ek fittings?

[cdelong]

Upgrading from a 120mm BIX...... How about a Black Ice GT Stealth 240mm?? It's profile will fit inside my case with the fans. The 240mm BIX-II may not fit inside and if it does it will be really tight. I think I'm limited to these two choices for price and size.

Any other ideas in the $50 range for a radiator?

So far it between the GT Stealth or BIX-II 240mm rads. Would a BIP-II be a consideration as well? I don't care about the noise- just the cooling. I'm only using this for the CPU and I thought a BIX would handle it, but load temps around 50C kinda scare me on water. I'm looking for mid 40's under load.

[TheJollyFellow]

The GTS radiators are the best bang-for-your buck by far, and they work well no matter the CFM of the fans. However, a BIX or GTX radiator will perform the best with a high (100+) cfm fan.

[BigBen2k]

The GTS radiators are the best bang-for-your buck by far, and they work well no matter the CFM of the fans. However, a BIX or GTX radiator will perform the best with a high (100+) cfm fan.
Not quite sure how you're getting that: the GTS is actually very restrictive, for both coolant flow, and air flow. It'll give you the best performance, with a hefty pump and a powerful fan (most likely noisy).

I've always advised that best bang for the buck is a standard car heatercore. Add the most powerful fan whose noise you can tolerate, and call it a day.

For more info:
http://www.cooling-masters.com/articles-38-0.html
(in french, use a translater)

[L33T]

Would the Stealth GTS 240 Black Ice also be considered "High Noise"?

[jabski]

if i can get a swiftech storm is it still the best cpu block ??
Its going on a E6400
Many thanks

[Ironmon1]

nope. for cooling the new quad-cores, the best block out is the D-Tek Fuzion.

[jabski]

nope. for cooling the new quad-cores, the best block out is the D-Tek Fuzion.
does that count for the E6400 (dual core ) as well then ??

[Ironmon1]

well, I'm not sure, exactly. the old apogee and the storm rev. 2 were within 1 or 2 degrees of each other on dual core cpus, with the storm in the lead, but the Fuzion is better than the apogee. I would get the fuzion, because it should give you the about same or better preformance, much better flow (it's not impingement, so its much less restrictive), and its 25$ cheaper ;) . besides, E6400's don't need extreme cooling to be OCed to their limits; most people can do it with a Tuniq tower.

[jabski]

yeah got a tuniq tower on it at he moment. Hit 3.6Ghz but temps were 50c idle. Did it quickly so didnt see how low i could take the volts thou.
Just wanted to put it on water cos of noise really.
I think i will order the Fuzion
Many thanks

[ZL1Killa]

This apparently is now the top block, as it has been tested and shown that its better than the storm.


Swiftech Apogee - 45USD - The newest block from Swiftech that takes a step backwards in performance. It is essentially a MCW5000 respun with a new manufacturing process (cheaper), and new delrin top. While Swiftech says its the best thing since sliced bread and Television, please try to avoid it as EVERY other block on this list performs superior to the Apogee

[creidiki]

Tested by who?

I haven't seen a test made under appicalble conditions with those results, mainly because there are so few people who actually have the know-how and the equipment and the free time.

[serialk11r]

Tested by who?

I haven't seen a test made under appicalble conditions with those results, mainly because there are so few people who actually have the know-how and the equipment and the free time.
There is a thread called "has anyone seen the D-Tek Fuzion?" its buried somewhere in this forum. Someone used scientific equipment stuff and concluded that fuzion beat storm by 0.2C at 100W (which isn't that great) but had like 1/10 the restriction or somethign!

[creidiki]

Fuzion might well beat a storm in some conditions - its an improvement over the 6002 after all - but the Apogee is an improved 5002.

I havn't seen tests but I would take a Fuzion over a Storm for a Ketsfield, a Swifty Storm probably won't cope too well with a split die of that size.

I haven't seen data on the GT, but the standard version will be outperformed by a Storm or MP-05 (or Fuzion, likely as not) as soon as you start OC'ing seriously.

[IanY]

For what its worth, I bought two FuZions and one Apogee GT. The Apogee GT is being used and the FuZions are in my closet. I find Apogee GT just plain better, not to say that the FuZion is a bad block.. as in better than anything else out there.. sorry.. except for the Apogee GT. If you can find me a G5 to buy for less than $300, I'll buy it and let you know how it does. I don't dwell on theoretical exercises because I cannot get my hands on a G5. And I know for sure that a Storm Rev2 G4 is inferior to the Apogee GT on a Kentsfield.

Its my Kentsfield, so maybe the Apogee GT is better on my Kentsfield only. Whatever. The FuZions are going into lesser PCs. Just my contribution.

[ZL1Killa]

I will find the post about the Apogee GT... i saw it on here. and it whoooooooops but

[serialk11r]

Fuzion has higher flow I think, but with the fat o-ring the apogee gt wins, performancewise.

[aspms*]

I'm about to buy Danger Den 4101 Water Cooling Kit! It includes TDX Universal CPU Block- could it be mounted un S775 or not?