Setting up LN2

[Charles Wirth]

Second day back from vacation and I have a grip of hardware to torture.

I am also testing SLI on 955x, no oohs and aaahs yet please as I have not had a chance to setup the cards and even confirm they work.

Intel 670 ES
Intel 840EE ES
Intel 630 Retail
ATI X850XT PE
Nvidia 7800GTX
OCZ 4200EB
Corsair 5400UL
Corsair 8000UL
Mushkin 6400
Enermax 651
OCZ 600ADJ

Asus P5WD2 and quite possible DFI 925XE

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37684

I will try to get to Dothan as I have a pair of mobo's and stuff to go with it.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37685

Chilly1 ran to get fittings, more images incomming as we setup.

[SIOUX]

Nice Fugger...cant wait too see some results:)

[.sentinel]

Holy 160 LIters thats 1600 minutes of pure benching heaven if my math is correct.

[Mr. Tinker]

How long should that supply last?

[b1tterman]

enough to bench& shoot some screens though:D

[.sentinel]

If I remember it is 10 minutes per liter so that is 1600 minutes and then 26.5 hours is what it should last. HAVE FUN :)

[Charles Wirth]

Dont be hating :nono:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37690

Will these bad boys run DX8 2K1? Each card is loaded with 12MB ram.

[k|ngp|n]

Fugger is back! :toast:
With 160l of ln2 you guys should do some serious damage with all that hardware. Are you guys going to run a looped ln2 system?

[Mr. Tinker]

12mb?

[[XC] DragonOrta]

VooDoo Power!!!! At least that's what I'd guess

[Charles Wirth]

Yep, we have aluminum blocks too. The pressure vessel is at 20 PSI and we will force liquid through the blocks or bursted blasts into the blocks like we did in Dallas.

Aluminum has superior thermal transfer properties to copper at cryo temps ;)

[cowpuppy]

I think I see WRs fallin here soon :cool:

[CRUSH-ER]

Lookin' good Fugger. :toast: Btw, those are 12 mb Voodoo2's in SLI. I *believe* there's a hacked Windows 2k or XP driver somewhere around for them. People running Doom 3 on them, albeit ugly. They're certainly not DX8 capable cards, but 3dmark 01 may work. Dunno....been so long. :slobber:

[metro.cl]

good luck breaking WR, thats a lot of ln2

[Kunaak]

I want to see SLI working on that 955X, with whatever secret method you got, and that CPU at 5.5 ghz benchmarkable.

let's see it :)

[charlie]

woooo-hoooo!!!

:toast:

C

[calcal]

wow i cant wait to see results

[afireinside]

:slobber: I want that dewar...

[Stuperman]

:slobber: :slobber:

That 840 will do some massive damage with multi threaded SLI drivers, too bad they aren't WHQL yet.

so what WR in 01' 03' and 05' for X850's 7800GTX's and voodoo 2's?

good luck and watch your fingers and toes with all that LN2

[JuanFlaiter]

Did you rent that Dewar or is it yours?

I want to see those 3D01 3DFX SLI numbers :D

[BB mods's]

my 630 is going under the LN2 tonight...wish it and all the other ES gear luck! were allmost ready to get this thing going...Fugger had to leave for a min,chilly1 is eating a cracker i think* and im sitting here getting my ES DFI mobo ready to do some damage!


edit::: you can change the *maby* on the dfi to a yes..ill let it go under the LN2 tonight :) got to take me some wr's!

[JuanFlaiter]

The endless night ^^

Are you all at Fugger's place?

[Major]

yea, you guys are getting a late start ! lol

Good luck ! :toast:

Don't quit until you have killed something :D

[dinos22]

woohoo...don't want to miss any of this action.....ever since PRTeamJapan started posting those massive OCs i couldn't help thinking where Fugger is :D...good luck...looking forward to some good results :toast:

[BB mods's]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37706

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37707

[Lando95]

Oh man, this is gonna be so sweet. Good luck guys!! :banana: :banana:

[jrw]

:slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:

I love you guys!

[$ilver]

hell yeah .. pure VooDoo Ownage :D

[\Karting_freak]

nice dewar +)
looking for benchies +)

[Vincentvega18]

Wow, looks like you got a lotta fun coming your way.....thats a hell of a test list.

[ilkkahy]

This is so sweet :cool:

That gpu container looks really nice and effective. How does that cpu cooler work? Is that hole above line where ln2 enters or is it going to be used as some kind of suction line?

[Frederik]

cant wait to see the results! don't blow yourselfs up tonight!

[Charles Wirth]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37712

[Stuperman]

I never knew that the long lost secret to LN2 success was a cut in hlaf water bottle.

Looks awesome, I can't wait for some HUGE numbers. (or small numbers in the case of Superpi).

[funkflix]

Dont be hating :nono:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37690

Will these bad boys run DX8 2K1? Each card is loaded with 12MB ram.

:slobber:

Hope u bench with this combi! :toast:

http://www.falconfly.de/3dfx.htm , there u can get all what u need for.

[cupra]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37712


AUA, and that is cool !
love the bottle :D
well done fugger like always :toast:

[dinos22]

I never knew that the long lost secret to LN2 success was a cut in hlaf water bottle.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[harleybro]

Very cool Fugger. :toast: Do you actually use a pump or do you metter it just by pressure and let it blled off to the atmosphere? If you can set the metering it would be killer for these cold bugged FX-s :)

[charlie]

He's doing a "metered" LN2 feed. You take a pressurized LN2 line and put the end over a solid copper cup, and feed maybe 5ml every 5 seconds or so...

C

[Charles Wirth]

It is a pressure vessel with bottom feed so it forces liquid out into a pair of sweet valves that do not freeze over. Each valve controls cpu or gpu's flow rate precisely.

The aluminum block shown overflows a little and the water bottle controls the splash and collects the liquid at the base of the block. The clear bottle lets me see the liquid level. so the waterbottle does not get more than half full.

There is a single 1/4" liquid feed line to the CPU for last nights testing. We are going to add the VC connection tonight.

Pictured below is another block as we were testing for capacity. It maxed out around 6.4Ghz on the block the size of a piece of bazooka bubble gum.

You can see the C clamp holding it down to the mobo. To the right of the meter you can see the discharge and some liquid blasting from the copper tube. You can also see 1/4 inch of ice built up on it. What you cant see is the large plume of LN2 exiting from the same point.

I will connect to the net and upload cpuid's and pi's in a few hours.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37748

[althes]

Let the fun begin WR here he comes

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

awesome. have fun...! :)

[JuanFlaiter]

Sweet :)

[BB mods's]

Ok tonight we go for the gold,Fugger and I are setting up right now with my 630 N0 for some ultra high fsb lovin,then we rotate to the ES chip's for WR's we have a ES 7800gtx and ES x850 xt pe to get some solid 3d benches in..more pic's comming!

[Evil_Spork]

well.... results?!

[$ilver]

jap :D get the results online :D cant wait to see the benchies

[harleybro]

The aluminum block shown overflows a little and the water bottle controls the splash and collects the liquid at the base of the block. The clear bottle lets me see the liquid level. so the waterbottle does not get more than half full.
Love the water bottle idea. I am guessing originally the space around the block was made to collect extra LN2? Once you're running and have the metering set what kind of temp. swings do you see? Really curious to see how this set-up works on something clod bugged like the 7800GTX. Very cool so far. :clap:

[afireinside]

Looks good! But uh... wheres the results?

[aasmaukr]

Awesome :banana: Looking forward to see the results!

[Supertim0r]

can't wait to see that Intel power :eek:

[\Karting_freak]

hehe. isn't is sunday already in the US?
where are the results then!? lol

[sang]

hehe. isn't is sunday already in the US?
where are the results then!? lol

heh,maybe in HK but in states its saturday morning/noon.
Its snowing already ,back there in mother Russia ? :)

[sin0822]

good luck!

[speed bump]

I think if you go to Las Vegas you will find 3 solid statues at Fuggers place. Either that or 3 people that are so mad even LN2 can't cool them down becuase the killed it all.

Then agian you could see some huge numbers creep up out of somewhere.

[AH^DK]

Good luck! :D

[IvanAndreevich]

Watching with anticipation

[Stuperman]

any results? between this and the hijinks going on at ibiza (sp) I fully expect SuperPi ranks and the ORB to be completely shaken up.

[SoF]

hmmm this is not good - still no results ^^
have you guys blown up your rigs???
or are you still collecting the WR pictures and sorting them??? :D :D :D
amazing setup with nice bottle idea and sweet temps - it is close to monday in Germany now...i think i will wait 2-3 hours before going to sleep...maybe there will be pictures?!

[Charles Wirth]

Nothing blown up so far :) improving as we go.

Slept all day and went out last night.

Firing up again shortly

[SoF]

i would never even thought of you blowing up any hardware - you're just too good, I'm serious :D :D :D
ok have fun on the other side of the planet my girl is already sleeping next to me so i will watch this here again tomorrow morning (sorry even if i would like to do some ln2 staph i won't change with you - lol).
good luck to you and please do us all a favour and post pics as soon as you have something that might impress us :D

best regards
SoF

[Welz]

Nothing blown up so far :) improving as we go.

Slept all day and went out last night.

Firing up again shortly

sweet, cant wait

[2fink]

any news? :cool:

[afireinside]

It's been 4 or 5 days already... Where's the results at? This is kind of pathetic IMO...

[Jort]

yeah instead start a topic yesterday or day itself

[don_vercetti]

maybe he jus wants to give us results all in one go or something. Give him time.

[DeltZ]

the suspense is killing me :rolleyes:


anyhow...no doubt they bought so much ln2 they've frozen themselves and making slow progress :P

or doing a 24 hour marathon run and his house is now part of the artic circle :P

[mtb856]

sooooo curious

[CanDostum]

Good luck...:)

waiting for results,

[Stuperman]

If you wait until the same time as X1800 results are made public, and have a few huge numbers of your own, I may have some overclocking bliss induced "episode".

p.s. seriously any results yet?

[Charles Wirth]

Part of it is write up the other part is testing blocks. I am not running the old fashion copper cup on the CPU.

Im trying to catch Tom and the Japanese, not an easy task.

I still have a can of LN2 near full.

This block for example proved to be very strong and fits anything, by linking a few of them together with tygon hose for SLI/AMR

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38112

The only thing close to WR is Tommy's 630 @ 5.4Ghz

Going into temps where the system wont boot is fun, we are getting better a warming up and pretty much know each chip has a diffferent temp they will fire up at and restart.

The waterbottle block is very high capacity and I spent the most time trying to get a good grip on regulating my LN2 flow in an attempt to maintain a warmer temp than -192c

[Tycoon]

The only thing close to WR is Tommy's 630 @ 5.4Ghz


is that on LN2 ???
and good luck:)

[\Karting_freak]

off
sangboy
nope. it very hot +) it was +20C yesterday...

[massman]

off
sangboy
nope. it very hot +) it was +20C yesterday...

in russia ??

here in Belgium it was much colder :rolleyes:

ontopic:

nothing blown yet ? what a succes :D

[SoF]

looks like FUGGER won't show something until he has a new WR :D
I bet 5€ he'll get it *g*

[masterofpuppets]

Come on FUGGER, get some WR! We're waiting.

[$ilver]

d'oh ..... cant wait anymore

[Jort]

C'mon this takes too long :slap:

[Evil_Spork]

the LN2 couldnt last half this long whats the hold up?

[eshbach]

the LN2 couldnt last half this long whats the hold up?

the ln2 can last a while... the dewar we have here at my university holds it for 2 weeks...

[Martijn]

the ln2 can last a while... the dewar we have here at my university holds it for 2 weeks...

We have to wait a while, then... Hope he has got time now :slobber:

[Evil_Spork]

the ln2 can last a while... the dewar we have here at my university holds it for 2 weeks...
so he spends the money on the LN2 then decides to tell us about it, then wait around for the LN2 to "evaporate" for a week before doing anything. sounds like a good waste of money and hype to me.

[$ilver]

nothing new ??? no information ???

-->boring

[Martijn]

nothing new ??? no information ???

-->boring

Indeed, we want pictures at least!! :fact:

[don_vercetti]

RESULTS

thats what we want. Benchmarks, world records, pics, the lot!1

[zabomb4163]

this thread was made a bit early. imho anyway.

[lilsi]

RESULTS

thats what we want. Benchmarks, world records, pics, the lot!1

now, now, calm down!!!!! or i'll get the cage out!!!!!!

lol, give him time, he doesn't wanna jus post pics of summit u seen b4 does he!!!!! thats why he is waitin for the record!!!

[Martijn]

Lol, so he is just posting a thread to make us anxious :D

[Mowgli]

IMO, FUGGER is actually doing something, but then he wont post it till he actually reaches the MAX of his benching and OC n afer breaking a few WR...wuts d point of posting something dats already been achieved right? so we should just wait patiently for the results...hehe...

[don_vercetti]

to keep us salivating

im always perfectly happy to look at high benchmark results, even if they aren't World Records.

[Welz]

you there Fugger? couldn't you at least give us a few pics!

[EZClock]

Im waiting on this also .. this looks sooo damn sweet.

[jrw]

You guys could simply subscribe to the thread and keep quiet.

That way, we would all be able to spend time on something else rather than spamming this thread AND would get the real news the minute FUGGER thinks he has something to share...

[k|ngp|n]

You guys could simply subscribe to the thread and keep quiet.

That way, we would all be able to spend time on something else rather than spamming this thread AND would get the real news the minute FUGGER thinks he has something to share...

heh. I hope this isn't considered spamming stryg :)

If the hadware isn't playing all that nice, there is not much you can do with full ln2 :(
I am really curious how the ln2 line feed is working for you guys because I really want to start working with something like this soon. I have been excited about it ever since chilly told me about it last year. What kind of loads /evap temps are you guys getting(details), specifically with some of the different cpu's you guys are running. WHat kind of temp ranges under load can you guys hold with valve psi adjustments.. DId you say you were havng a difficult time staying above -192?

[skate2snow]

I really like the pressure feed Idea. Hope you best of luck with your OC. Always fun when you have to worry about the temps not being too low instead of too high :)

[wicke]

Hope to see some results soon.

[Martijn]

Yeah, I'm off for 2 weeks starting from tonight, I want pictures within 4 hours :D


No, I'll check this thread anyway when I return home.

[Welz]

did FUGGER die?

[Tycoon]

did FUGGER die?

This is not funny man!!!!! :nono:

[Charles Wirth]

Im ok, still sitting with about 120L of LN2 and more hardware.

I have been busy updating all my scores on the vapo and gaming on a diff box.

Funny thing, the C19 maxes out at 300FSB only if you have a 1066FSB processor and my multi is 14x. Weee 4.2Ghz on a N0 core...

Completely useless for LN2 and overclocking and a good thing I didnt waste any LN2 on the SLI setup.

I broke out the DFI 925XE and came a few Mhz short of WR on BB's 630. I had a chance to fire up the 670 ES and the mobo liked it, good thing because there is no bios update available.

I also have a Fatality 925XE in reserve

[Vapor]

How about the ASUS board? Are you gonna try that one or is the DFI better for sure?

[Vapor]

Thanks man....new question arose though ;)

[SoF]

hey FUGGER good to hear you're still on it.
If you have not enough time hand me out some of your LN2 for getting my 3200+ Venice WR :D
With all this hardware and LN2 around you, it will be hard to stop you I think....

[KILLorBE]

Dont be hating :nono:

Voodoo Image (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=37690)

Will these bad boys run DX8 2K1? Each card is loaded with 12MB ram.
Did you get them to run 2K1?
If so, what OS and Drivers did you use?

I couldn't get them to run, the cards aren't recognized by either 2K1 or 2K, and 99Max won't even run (Keeps complaining that I should install DX6 orso :p: ).

BTW: I used W2K SP4 and the FastVoodoo drivers (Not sure about DX, probably 8.1).

[Charles Wirth]

#1 Intel/SLI on 2K3
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=4314931

The first two cards were a joke, they are voodoo2 DX7 cards.

[SoF]

HE DID it wohooooo :toast:

(hey proud to be the 1st saying congratz...does everybody clicking on the link right now? for some reason it won't work atm :( )
€: Ah I see now 30k in 03 WTH??????????????????? 3 times faster as me... ^^)?

[skate2snow]

Cool! What do you plan to try next? What are your current goals? :)

[mtb856]

Wow, that's sick.... congrats man :)

[wicke]

nice set up. Congrats to you

[Charles Wirth]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38342

[Charles Wirth]

Straight from Asus

Load bios 0519 and newest ATI drivers and plug monitor into primary video card

[Starks]

Oh sweet jesus...

But um Fugger, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Crossfire doesn't run in full unless one of the cards is master card. Cracked Crossfire is not guaranteed to work. Also, you need a modded bios to do cracked Crossfire as far as I know.

[Stuperman]

Oh sweet jesus...
took the words out of my mouth.

p.s. I think Asus knows enought to send him a working c-fire setup.

[skate2snow]

Prove everyone that ATI is still the best =P

[Starks]

It'll only be Crossfire capable if Fugger has the appropriate BIOS mod flashed onto one of the cards.

2 Crossfire-Ready cards =/= CF (UNLESS YOU MOD THE BIOS OF ONE OF THE CARDS.
1 CF-Ready + 1 CF-Edition = CF

[Vincentvega18]

Wont it show up in benchmarks but not actually visually if one of them isnt the mastercard?

[skate2snow]

I am pretty sure FUGGER is already aware of all that :P

[Supertim0r]

Those cards are HUGE :mad:

[afireinside]

Nice... But wheres the ln2 runs?

[boostedevo]

Wow, that will be sick! What PSU(s) are you guys using to run all this? That 600W OCZ or do you have your own private nuclear plant in the back yard? :)

[IvanAndreevich]

just tow cards the mastercard doesnt improv per some but ti supposly works with two r1800xls alone.
Still need a master card with the X1x00's.

Looking forward to results and hoping you have a Master card, FUGGER. I hope you didn't get the bum-clocking XL's with the old revision of R520

[SrJabardo]

FUGGER, "my child"

Wanna trade? I have a 6600GT from Albatron! :D :D :D

heheh

Excelent RIG U got there, come on and surprise us once again ;)

[]'s

[wambas]

Insane :)

[EZClock]

I hope Fugger can forget the BIOs issues figured out for the Crossfire, also .. ln2 runs? :D.

[Charles Wirth]

No gain in 3D at all yet. It does see both cards and hints that operation may be possible after interconnect cable in installed.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38423

[T_M]

FUGGER, i notice in your 3D'03 score that GT1 score is quite low, how come?
My 3200+ Venice (water) + X850XT (water) setup beat your GT1 score by 1.5 points :?:

[G H Z]

Fugger am I correct in reading your post that ASUS said CF works on these without a master? Maybe it's a limited CF with only one or two of the rendering types available. Do you have a link or was this direct conversation with ASUS? Are you missing the interconnect or was that last shot done with one?

Damn, those cards look so frikin good :woot:

[boostedevo]

I'd like to know too! Fugger, are you using any type of Crossfire BIOS on one card or just the 0519 BIOS+latest ATI drivers? Inquiring minds want to know!!

I wish I could afford two of those things, but I think I am going to have to wait out x1600XTs in Crossfire or maybe one x1800XT :(

[Charles Wirth]

I was talking to an engineer at Asus and he said it was working and that I would need bios 0519 and a pair of cards in the premium board. I tried that and so far no go.

[Charles Wirth]

T_M GT1 from the SLI runs? weak system, I wasnt kidding.

[boostedevo]

Thanks for letting us know. If you can keep us posted on what happens (ie. what you "really" need to get it to work), I am sure a lot of us would appreciate it ;)

[T_M]

Not sure what you mean by weak system Fugger?
ALl im saying is that your #1 score there (30K) has GT1 score that is less than my single card venice based water cooled system, and was wondering why.

[G H Z]

I was talking to an engineer at Asus and he said it was working and that I would need bios 0519 and a pair of cards in the premium board. I tried that and so far no go.

Did he say it worked without an interconnect?

[boostedevo]

Fugger, I see that ATI released 5.10 Cats today. No mention of any x1x00 cards in the notes, but definitely "support for Crossfire" is mentioned. Just FYI in case you were using a beta or an older driver...

[[XC] moddolicous]

These look good so far Fugger, but why is the cpu speed only 4.2ghz?? Wouldnt benmching around 6ghz be possible?? That would give a score around say 35-36k probably.

[Charles Wirth]

mod, top stable fsb was 300 and top multiple was 14x

Ghz, not flashed to cf yet

[G H Z]

I think thats the missing key, problem is where are you gonna find an X1800 Master BIOS ;)

[JuanFlaiter]

Fugger, I see that ATI released 5.10 Cats today. No mention of any x1x00 cards in the notes, but definitely "support for Crossfire" is mentioned. Just FYI in case you were using a beta or an older driver...

5.10 regular Cats (available for download) don`t support X1K series.

[Revv23]

pretty weak fugger, this is almost as bad as your 7.2 ghz bios shot with a promise of windows screenies...

id like to see some screens even if they arent WR, youve got alot of competition and its great you are going for wr, but so is everyone else... even if you dont have a wr, im sure youve got some great clocks, and i for one would love to learn from your experience.

[[XC] moddolicous]

Any updates fugger?? I wanna see some intel action on the orb soon, other than dothan.

[Charles Wirth]

I did a lot of testing with LN2 to prepare for the WR runs. I cold bug tested, block tested, condensation proofed, capacity tests and froze a lot of objects around the office.

I proved to myself that the tripple stage is superior to LN2 for capacity and on the fly adjustability. I never knew my temp range was near perfect.

The smallest block proved to be the best block, I had the 3.73 @ 6.3Ghz weee. I wasnt impressed.

I have a bunch of screens saved on the HD I never posted. Nothing to beat my current bests and most likely the reason I never posted them.

[zabomb4163]

Not trying to be rude but we could care less about the WR. We just want to see some benchies and results.

he already has benches posted of higher clockspeeds. why dont you try using the search and looking at them?

[Starks]

I did a lot of testing with LN2 to prepare for the WR runs. I cold bug tested, block tested, condensation proofed, capacity tests and froze a lot of objects around the office.

I proved to myself that the tripple stage is superior to LN2 for capacity and on the fly adjustability. I never knew my temp range was near perfect.

The smallest block proved to be the best block, I had the 3.73 @ 6.3Ghz weee. I wasnt impressed.

I have a bunch of screens saved on the HD I never posted. Nothing to beat my current bests and most likely the reason I never posted them.
You're hiding something from us... Come on, tell us what got damaged.

[harleybro]

Really curious about this staement.

I proved to myself that the tripple stage is superior to LN2 for capacity and on the fly adjustability.
I seem to be able to hold my 670 using LN2 and a MOUSEPOT within a few degrees c while running. As for adjustablitlity I boot up at -118c or so and drop down to -130 - -140c for running purposes. I have no capacity or adjustability issues the only problem is IF I do crash it takes awhile for the tube to warm back up even empty. ;)

[n00b 0f l337]

Damn those mousepots get cold. And they are not hard ot control temps in.

[Charles Wirth]

Feeding pressurized LN2 worked better than letting it boil off.

Noob, LN2 gets cold... And there is no way to control the temp other than to pour at a moderated rate requireing a lot more attention. If you read his comment on warming up, it does take more time and using a heat gun will melt ice and run moisture into those areas you were trying to keep frozen.

Where I have a knob to adjust temps on the three stage with roughtly +- 40c swing that adjusts near instantly to the new temp.

Some of the advantages to cascade besides never running out of coldness.

[harleybro]

Feeding pressurized LN2 worked better than letting it boil off.
Does this mean piping it as opposed to using a conventional tube? IF so can you expand a bit as to how it was better.

I admit running LN2 is much more tedious and time consuming. It is just hard for me to understand or see where it is truely better. Being an HVAC tech. I have often thought about building a cascade but the only advantage I have really seen is cost. (the point of not having a re-occuring cost that is) With so much hardware running at differant cold bugged temps. IMO LN2 is still the way to go. Actually W/O it I wouldn't have known my Opteron had issues anything below -28c. My FX-57 liked -79c and my 670 won't boot below -118c. Just those three chips alone show me a 100C differance. So to run each at optimum temps. you would need 3 differant systems or pulling gas and changing the configuration of the cascade breaking to single or duals as needed. So basically I am just looking for or trying to understand why so many are die-hard on cascades. :)

Some of the advantages to cascade besides never running out of coldness.
Hehe with this I don't run out of coldness easily. ;)
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8731/picture1244hv.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture1244hv.jpg)

[Charles Wirth]

Cap, A lot of my WR still stand today.

I hold many of the top Intel/SLI spots across 3Dmark.

I hold #1 spot for bandwidth (1800Mhz bus) and FSB (450FSB 5:4 or 404FSB 1:1) speed. Not just a suicide screen but 32M at top speed.

I am setting up my 3.73EE back up on the vapo for some X1800XL runs, it is equil to a FX 57 @ 3.5Ghz max w/ max FSB and tight timing. I am running the DFI CF board under the vapo atm with the X2 and I am so disappointed in E4 revision. It is so weak and stalls. I know what you guys mean about re-running PCmark to get a score because tests fail. I didnt get one complete bench @ 3.1Ghz and when I did get a score it was messed up. Overclocked the 3.73EE beats it with hyperthreading. Yes I installed patch and confirmed startup string changes.