Another noob... needing help choosing parts

[amrgb]

Hi folks,

Finally I'm one step from converting myself from air to water cooling.

The setup is intended to cool down a X2 3800 (possibly) that I'm about to buy, of course that as overclocked as I can put it to work. I don't plan to cool the gpu.

I've done my homework (read through XS, what else :p: ) and I already made up my mind regarding the cpu block, a Swiftech Storm G4, and pump, a Swiftech MCP655 (or laing D5, if I recall it right).

Following the (excellent) guide of MaxxxRacer I was thinking on going with a double pass 2x120 heatercore from voyeursmod (to mod one is asking too much from me), because I thoght I would get de max performance with one of those (forget those monster 4x120 because I do not have the space for it).

But yesterday I've found Cathar criticizing this hype around heatercores, arguing that purpose built radiators are better (although more expensive as well).

So I basically want to know which one is better. The aforementioned heatercore of a Black Ice Xtreme III? What do you recommend, up to 3x120? Money is not an issue here (although I do not have the money buy one made of gold :p: )

Now the reservoir (I'd prefer to stay away from T-lines). Does bigger means better, or basically anyone is fine? I'm considering a single or dual bay from Typhoon. Which one?

The fittings and etc can wait for another day. Thank you guys for your help.

[moonlightcheese]

If money is not an issue i'd grab a purpose built rad for several reasons.

1) they mount easier
2) they aren't nearly as big and bulky
3) they look a lot nicer

BIX3 is a nice rad... if you don't mind noise. the BIX requires more airflow since it's doublerow/doublepass. 70+CFM. i can't say which one would perform better although it seems (i read that same post you did) that testing shows there is little or no difference. in that case, the BIX3 should be the better performer since there is no heatercore with the same surface area.

after reading that post i wish i had gone with the BIX3 rather than the heatercore but... c'est la vi. the only reason people get the heatercores is for the price difference and... really... unless you mod your own there isn't that much difference.

[amrgb]

Yeah, you have the point, a modded heatercore is not that cheaper compared to a radiator.

And how does BIX3 compare to similar offers from Termochill?

And reservoir. Does it size matters (in such a system)?

[moonlightcheese]

the thermochills are supposed to perform slightly better than the BIX counterpart (although some others on the forum will tell you different). the main advantage is that the thermochills have a bleed valve and have tight seals around the fans. if you have a res and you mount things properly you will never need to use the valve anyway. surface area is the main thing you're looking for.

short version: thermochill is slightly better but it doesn't really matter IMO between BIX and Thermochill equivalent.

[amrgb]

And the size of the reservoir?

My guess is that the only effect of more water in the system is that temperatures will rise slower, but the max temperature after sufficient time will be the same. Is this correct?

If it is, I will go with a smaller reservoir to save space.

[beermanpro]

I recomend you to use a single 5.25" res, made of acrylic they look very nice, and if you mix ZEREX with 2 or 3 drops of UV DYE it looks really kool. Also you can buy the one that Danger Den and Swiftech sell too.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

volume of water in a loop has (virtually) no impact on overall temps.

[Manuel C]

Hi there (tao ma man, sou o WarLorD dos foruns la de pt), here in my setup i have one reservoir of a single bay.
oh by the way have you allready take a look into the new series of termochill the PA120 series. they seem to performe very well. wait one or two weeks to check the results of the rad's and then decide on wich one you will take your"hope".
VA cumprimentos :)

[amrgb]

Thank you guys. That's what I thought. But since I have no past experience, its always best to ask to the guys who know.

Yeah Manuel, I know that Thermochill is about to launch a new series (but thanks anyway). I will do as you suggested and wait a bit. I hope that Maxxx's wrong and they don't ask a harm and a leg for it :p:

Abracos ai para Braga :D

[Manuel C]

I hope that Maxxx's wrong and they don't ask a harm and a leg for it so do I... I am wondering my system with an PA120, but it is very difficult to get any kind of that material here in Portugal as you know... but i will wait for the new series and if they are that good, oh man, i will get one, oh yes i will :woot: but till that day, i will give my shoot with a BiX..
BTW when you get the pump, tell how it is about noise. because i have read that the pump is quiet but, i also knew that mcp600 was a big "turbine" in terms of noise, and i am not sure if it is silent or not...~(i am making other plans for my eheim 1250 :banana: )

Abracos para ai TB :toast:

[beermanpro]

well, thermochill rads are very expensive, so i think their new series will be even more expensive.....dammit fkn thermochill and their prices =P
I think that a small res is enough, the single one that i told you seems to be a good one, just think about it.

Saludos Amigos !

[.sentinel]

T-lines are cheaper and they don't crack like reservoirs do. Also t-lines have just a little bit more performance.

[moonlightcheese]

T-lines are cheaper and they don't crack like reservoirs do. Also t-lines have just a little bit more performance.
after owning a reservior i'm becoming aware that a T-line is probably a better option. it's actually more difficult to fill my res the way i have it setup, so when i rebuild my loop i'm taking the res out of the equation. save yourself some leaks, time and headaches and go with a T-line.

[kemist]

I may be mistaken but i think that Cathar's comments about heatercores vs custom rads were mainly in regards to cooling performance using lower speed quieter fans.

Since the fans that most people use are the axial low pressure fype rather than the loud high pressure squirrel cage type used in cars the thickness of the heatercore blocks much of the airflow. Whereas with a thinner custom rad like the BIP series the rad is only an inch thick vs a heatercore which is typically 2 inches thick. Some of Cathar's other comments have basically stated that the amount of air flow through the rad matters more than its total area. So a thinner core which is less restrictive will work better with weaker axial fans than a comparable rad which is more restrictive.

Thats my interpretation however and may be wrong, but basically i think that its correct.

Based on this the PA120 series are going to perform great with low speed quiet fans because they were designed around them. But they are likely to be real friggin $$$$. However, black ice just came out with single pass BIP cores that arent much more money than a car heatercore from danger den anyway though they are probably more restrictive than a PA120.

[moonlightcheese]

well, in addition to that, the rads will reach a point of diminishing returns in regards to airflow where a lot of airflow equals little performance gain. i think i remember it being around 100CFM or so. i don't remember.

[amrgb]

Ok, guys, lets sum up, to see if I can take my decision.

Is a system with a T-line, compared to other with a reservoir, significantly harder to setup for a beginner? Personally I would like to save the space, but it seems that it take ages for a system with T-line to bleed.

I plan to use Delta EFB1212SHE fans in my rad/heatercore (142CFM, 13mmH2O). With these fans which will perform better, a 2x120 heatercore or a BIX2? And how the heatercore compares to a BIX3?

kemist, do you think that the new PA120 series will not be the most adequate for high CFM and high pressure fans?

[moonlightcheese]

actually a T-line will probably be easier to setup for a beginner. it doesn't really matter that much tho. you're just connecting tubes... but almost ALL reserviors are leak prone. expecially the acrylic or plastic variants. and the others are too expensive and they are designed all wrong. tripnip's coming res is the only i'll consider buying.

i think a lot of the T bleeding woe's are myth.

as for the rad. unfortunately there isn't enough hard data out there to make a real decision yet... just a lot of opinions and speculation. there have been hints from the watercooling powers-that-be about performance levels at various airflow. but nothing concrete. just so you know, the heatercore is a bit less restrictive but pressure drop isn't an issue in your loop with the components you have. if i had to choose, i'd get the BIX2. i have a heatercore and one thing keeps me wishing i had gotten a purpose built rad... its f-ugly lol.

anyway... do the T.

[MaxxxRacer]

I will be testing the BIX3, 2-199 (weapon core), BIX2 (maybe) and 120.3 maybe tonight..

wont be anything real intensive, but a good comparison test.

[amrgb]

Thanks, moon

You saved me 30 bucks of the reservoir. Guess I'll go for the BIX3. Nervertheless I'll wait a bit to see how the PA120 performs.

[MaxxxRacer]

If i were you I would wait for the PA120.X series to come out.. higher performance than the HE series with quieter fans.. what could be better?

[amrgb]

And with high CFM fans? From what you know, will the PA120 series beat the others by the same margin?

That's because I'm currently with a noisy aircooling and I'm kinda used to it. Not that I like it, but I've learnt to live with it, and I want the best performance (without having to sell my house :p: )

PS: MaxxxRacer, I take the opportunity to thank you for your guides :toast: . All I know about WC I can thank to you and to the fellows that gave their contribution in this thread.

[kemist]

IIRC Cathar said the performance difference between a heatercore and a purpose built rad is less / heatercore may be better with high pressure/cfm fans like those deltas (it may have been better at 120cfm, not sure).

Im not sure what your criteria for your system are (max performance, price/performance, price). But if you are deadset on using those deltas then a heatercore would be cheap and performance would probably not be hurt. If you want good performance with some quiet low cfm fans however youd be better with a thinner core. If your goal is just max performance and price does not matter than a BIX3 / PA120.3 may be better. But if you do choose a PA120.3 theres not a whole lot of reason to use high flow fans because the best you can get to is only ambient anyway.

[amrgb]

The thing is that for me that have to buy a modded heatercore (from voyeurmods, for example), the price difference between a BIX3 and a 2x120 heatercore is almost zero. Both are in $70's.

If I can get the same performance from a PA120.3 with quiet fans compared to a BIX3 with louder fans, then unless PA120.3 is above $200 I'd rather prefer a PA120.3. I can take a lot of noise, but still I don't love it.

[kemist]

If price isnt an issue you should wait for the PA120's and go with quieter fans. Furthermore if you are looking for close to the best performance with $ as no issue and you want a quiet systme you should also look into pumps beside the MCP655 such as the iwaki pumps. Thats just my 2 cents.

Personally im probably going to build a system soon with the new single pass BIP3 (probably much cheaper than the PA120's) with either 2 1/2" inlet modded Laing ddc pumps or an iwaki md-20 pump. From what i have read this combo, with low speed fans, should give great performance with low noise.