X2 4400+ looks like I got a dud. [Archive]

GRAFiZ

09-01-2005, 10:24 AM

Well, got my X2 4400+ installed yesterday and have spent a few hours overclocking now. Must say I'm terribly dissapointed.

My system specs are in my sig, minus the 3500+ of course.

Anyhow, the stupid thing takes 1.55v just to 2 x prime stable 2400mhz. When I try for 2600mhz core 0 crashes in a matter of seconds where as core 1 keeps going for as long as I want to let it.

I'm using the big toe modded bios, 704-2BT.

I need to reach 2.6ghz stable or this thing goes back... well, lets say 2.4ghz at lower voltage might be fine too.

Settings are:

11x237 3x 1:1 2.5/3/3/5
VCore: 1.55v LDT: 1.3v VDimm: 2.7v

Thats it, I've even tried to run 11x237 at stock bios memory settings and it's a no go.

I know my system can handle high memory speeds, hell, look at where I was running before in my sig.

I'm using a XP90 /AS5 /Vantec Tornado at 3500rpm. Temps peg at around 52c to 55c.

I know those temps are a little high, but hell, it's summer time and it's around 78 degrees inside my house, the max temp program says my cpu pegs at 57c so I'm still under that.

Any hints?

BIOS tweaks?

Should I try another BIOS revision?

I'm looking for anything here folks, it's all appreciated.

Thanks! :toast:

Major

09-01-2005, 10:44 AM

I'd try removing the XP90 and trying it again with less
(or more) TIM, see if you temps improve.

GRAFiZ

09-01-2005, 11:26 AM

I'd try removing the XP90 and trying it again with less
(or more) TIM, see if you temps improve.

Thanks for the idea friend, but I've been using AC5 for years now and feel I know how to install it correctly. You never know though.

Frankly I dont think it's the temps really, sure cooler is better but, it can only get me so far on air.

More then likely I just got a crappy overclocker, I've been on a roll past year or so.

Not since my 2.4c have I recieved a gift from the overclocking gods.

Could be I have no idea of what I'm doing, or could be these CPU's just suck.

Who knows, I sure dont.

Anyhow, thanks again friend. :cool:

Absolute_0

09-01-2005, 11:31 AM

You're very temp limited, that much i can say

You can return the CPU and try to get a different one, or you can remove the IHS... that will certainly help temps a bit on a hot X2.

GRAFiZ

09-01-2005, 11:50 AM

You're very temp limited, that much i can say

You can return the CPU and try to get a different one, or you can remove the IHS... that will certainly help temps a bit on a hot X2.

Think so? I guess I dont know much about these chips after all.

However, I have seen others report with the same specs as mine running the same temps and still reaching 2.6 and beyond without much trouble.

I'm getting too old for this, overclocking used to be fun and quite a rush, now it's just frustraiting and depressing.

I might just return it and stick with my 3500+, I'm slowly growing sick of computers. lol.

Anyhow, thanks for the idea, I might give it another go using a different heatsink.

:toast:

jot

09-01-2005, 12:05 PM

Hey guy's just a thought but I had a 3800 on phase @-50c dual prime stable @ 3.1 I say stable could run it for 8+ hrs. But the load these stuiped chips put out are crazy. Use'n 1.62 vcore to do it idle temps at -48c to load temps of -31c my sh-- was on fire. The perfomance dual vs single my op single. If and when AMD lowers wattage and improves on dual core perf (like sep mem contoller) then they may be something to play with. Oh the best trick I found to increase clock's is alot of low vcore burn'n (alot)

xgman

09-01-2005, 12:19 PM

temp in the low 50's is TOO hot for overclocking the X2, but it does sound like one of your cores is a dud nonetheless. That part unfortunately, is more common than not.

Filter

09-01-2005, 12:47 PM

lol dude o/c is not a right its a privlage just because it dont o/c as high as you want doesnt mean you can just return it.

GRAFiZ

09-01-2005, 12:52 PM

temp in the low 50's is TOO hot for overclocking the X2, but it does sound like one of your cores is a dud nonetheless. That part unfortunately, is more common than not.

Yeah, I know, but others have shown good results at those temps... but, I understand, it appears Core 0 doesnt like the heat.

Oh well.

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 12:56 PM

I think you have a dud :( mine does up to 2.6 @ stock stable @ -15c..... then it is like expontial, like vcore skyrockets... :slobber:

GRAFiZ

09-01-2005, 12:56 PM

lol dude o/c is not a right its a privlage just because it dont o/c as high as you want doesnt mean you can just return it.

Of course, however, I purchased this CPU from a retail store that allows full 15 day return policys. They charge more up front to provide me that right.

I purchased this product, overclock or not, if I'm not happy it's going back.

If I had gone out and picked it up for a much lower price from an online store, yes, I'd keep it and live with it, but, then thats why I paid more... to get the return rights.

I'm not giving up on it mind you, I'm just saying that is my privilege as a customer. If they didnt want me taking advantage of that privilege, they wouldnt offer it.

I'm not new to this hardware game, I've been buying, upgrading, overclocking, modding, etc since way back 10 years ago with a Cyrix MII 233 that I set on fire after reaching the incredible speed of 300mhz.

If I sat down and counted all the money I've put into the business with this hobby you'd find I put several peoples children through college.

No reason to worry my friend, I pay more to get more. Simple as that.

GRAFiZ

09-01-2005, 12:58 PM

I think you have a dud :( mine does up to 2.6 @ stock stable @ -15c..... then it is like expontial, like vcore skyrockets... :slobber:

I'm willing to make a bet that if I could run my chip at -15 degrees I'd see much better results. :D

And yes, the vcore thing is crazy, but think about it, there are two cores, so, an increase from stock to 1.5v is like adding .4v or so as both cores see the increase. So, lots of extra heat.

Reminds me of my damn Prescott, lol... that old 3.4ghz chip would do 4ghz at 70c and never flinch!!!

Crazy electronics!!! :D

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 01:00 PM

I'm willing to make a bet that if I could run my chip at -15 degrees I'd see much better results. :D

And yes, the vcore thing is crazy, but think about it, there are two cores, so, an increase from stock to 1.5v is like adding .4v or so as both cores see the increase. So, lots of extra heat.

Reminds me of my damn Prescott, lol... that old 3.4ghz chip would do 4ghz at 70c and never flinch!!!

Crazy electronics!!! :D

Nonono, you'll see it acting even MORE crazy! I ran 2.95 @ 1.58V and after that, i can give it up to 1.75v and it won't move a bit... i did 3.1 @ 1.77 but i don't wanna run it that high.

GRAFiZ

09-01-2005, 01:03 PM

Nonono, you'll see it acting even MORE crazy! I ran 2.95 @ 1.58V and after that, i can give it up to 1.75v and it won't move a bit... i did 3.1 @ 1.77 but i don't wanna run it that high.

1.77v !?!??!?!!

Are you nuts???

Why dont you just go ahead and install a cast iron skillet onto your heatsink so you can fry eggs while you're benchmarking? :D :D :D

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 01:09 PM

1.77v !?!??!?!!

Are you nuts???

Why dont you just go ahead and install a cast iron skillet onto your heatsink so you can fry eggs while you're benchmarking? :D :D :D

Relax... ;) i saw someone running there's @ 1.83 3.3gig... i'm not running it @ 1.77, i was just testing if voltage helps out any, it doesn't..

don_vercetti

09-01-2005, 02:31 PM

these x2s love the cold, for volts as well as speed. Under my freezer 64 (silent but not the coldest) i can hit about 2.55ghz with 1.58v.

Just setup my watercooling on it today, temps at load are lowered 12c+ and i'm just running 2xprime95 @ 1.53v. Getting the volts as low as i can, then gonna start gunning for higher mhz. Doesn't breach 40c at the moment.

btw my Core0 is dud too, my Core1 is a real trooper (that was true under air at least). Hopefully Core0 likes the cold, and will toughen up a bit. Otherwise, will have to prepare for a long and arduoud burn in.

oooh, p95 is now on test2. Looking good for 1.53v stability!!!

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 02:48 PM

I agree on the cold part, the voltage part i don't. The X2's or maybe just mine hates voltage over 1.6... it just doesnt help it.. i can do 3.0 w/ 1.58v (haven't stablility tested it) but if i try to give it 3.05 @ 1.64v it won't boot.. did i hit a wall?

don_vercetti

09-01-2005, 02:51 PM

the x2s seem to hit very sudden walls, tbh. As long as you've got decent cooling, then they will run very high, normally hitting the wall at 2.8ghz roughly.

And it just failed prime at 1.53v 2.55ghz, so it looks like its time for some burn in. I aim to get it down to 1.5v, before i start going higher.

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 03:33 PM

Yah VERY sudden walls.... i couldn't understand how it was possible to do 2.95 @ 1.58v and then not do 3.0 @ 1.68...

don_vercetti

09-01-2005, 03:50 PM

it's weird...either heat suddenly increases dramatically (doesn't seem to) or some other invisible thing. My old XP-M did this, clocked to 2.8ghz then wouldn't go higher, temps were all under control. No amount of multi changing helped.

You have a DFI? Does it happen to everyone, or just us DFI owners? Could be a mobo thing...

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 03:55 PM

Yah i have a dfi, i don't think it's the mobo, i booted @ 350HTT x6 just to see if it's holding me back.. i get black screens after load, still trying to figure out what this means.

don_vercetti

09-01-2005, 03:59 PM

it wouldn't boot at 2100mhz? for 350x6?

That's weird. I've not tried getting my HTT high, since i'm fairly confident it'll go higher than i'll ever need (300mhz+).

We need to see if the Asus and Abit owners are having trouble.

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 04:02 PM

Nono it booted @ 360, i mean overclocking in general i get black screen even @ stock.... i have to shut down for about 5 minutes then it will login into windows.

don_vercetti

09-01-2005, 04:05 PM

oh. That's weird. No ideas here.

[cTx]Philosophy

09-01-2005, 04:16 PM

Im with you here too grafiz the overclocking gods have taken a dump on me as of lately as well..

But im just gonna rma shi until I get what i want and thats it, ima let multi millionaires at newegg handle with my misfortune..

My problems have been mostly memory related I keep getting buh bh-5 so ima switch and go with TCCD for a try and see if i can get into the 3g on air club..

Thats mostly my main objective.. Once there ill be good

s7e9h3n

09-01-2005, 04:18 PM

Relax... ;) i saw someone running there's @ 1.83 3.3gig... i'm not running it @ 1.77, i was just testing if voltage helps out any, it doesn't..
He's right, that is a crazy vcore to be running on an x2. Even if you're only doing it for a short period of time, it doesn't take too long to kill a cpu with voltage. Ideally, try to stay below 1.65 to be safe. For reference, here's one of my old 4600+'s @ 1.488 Vcore :cool: :
http://img193.echo.cx/img193/3263/3300cpuz1zw.jpg

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 04:25 PM

:slobber: you got one hella chip there man... i can do 2.95 @ 1.58 and then i hit wall, cascade cooling?? :D

s7e9h3n

09-01-2005, 04:46 PM

:slobber: you got one hella chip there man... i can do 2.95 @ 1.58 and then i hit wall, cascade cooling?? :D
Nope, stock mach2 ;) Here's the other 4600+ I had....
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1917/11x288sandracpu8gl.jpg

BTW, I had sold these cpu's long ago and just happens that my the first 4600+ is PCMark04 #1 and this 4600+ is PCmark05 #1 (Don't believe me? Check the credits on both the scores ;) )

don_vercetti

09-01-2005, 04:46 PM

old? you do get through them fast. And yeah cascade or colder?

EDIT

Sorry, posted at the same time, and questions answered. Very nice.

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 04:51 PM

s7e9h3n

09-01-2005, 04:53 PM

You ran 3.3 @ 1.44v, yet you run 3.1 @ 1.54? Anyways, nice chip there man... i'll top like @ 3.0... although you have a 200mhz head start.... :clap: your PSU is @ 111c? :confused: or is that your mosfets?
Read what I wrote again, especially the last line. And just in case you still don't figure it out - these are 2 diferrent cpu's ;) And that 111C is bugged. It's the pwmic on a dfi board..... :p:

don_vercetti

09-01-2005, 04:54 PM

i saw that...must be a dodgy reading.

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 04:56 PM

Read what I wrote again, especially the last line. And just in case you still don't figure it out - these are 2 diferrent cpu's ;) And that 111C is bugged. It's the pwmic on a dfi board..... :p:

I figured it out ;) big diffrence between cores though, big diffrence.... also what's w/ the PWMIC temp?

s7e9h3n

09-01-2005, 05:32 PM

I figured it out ;) big diffrence between cores though, big diffrence.... also what's w/ the PWMIC temp?
Actually, not as big of a difference as you might think. The first 4600+ definately has a stronger memory controller, but the second 4600+ runs cooler than the first. I've seen idle temps with the second 4600+ @ -38C evap - which is only about 6C warmer than if I just booted the mach2 without a cpu under the cooling head........

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 05:38 PM

s7e9h3n

09-01-2005, 05:53 PM

Well, nice chip anyways, may i ask what happened to the first chip? Also, i wanna go head to head w/ a 4600+ to see what kinda scores a 4400 vs a 4600 would put out... same speed, to see if the 2mb cache will make the diffrence.
Read my post again :rolleyes: :p: It's curently (and will be for quite some time) #1 Pcmark04 which means it's THE 10K Pcmark Cpu and is owned by OPB - I sold it to him. Show me a 4400 bench, I'll see if I have a screenie to show you the difference.... ;)

eBoy0

09-01-2005, 06:22 PM

Read my post again :rolleyes: :p: It's curently (and will be for quite some time) #1 Pcmark04 which means it's THE 10K Pcmark Cpu and is owned by OPB - I sold it to him. Show me a 4400 bench, I'll see if I have a screenie to show you the difference.... ;)

Well... @ 05 i score 9.6k w/ 2.55 x2 and 561/1450 7800GTX.