Liquid Metal Thermal Paste

[Fairydust]

Liquid Metal Thermal Paste

Hey guys, after seeing a new Liquid Metal Thermal Paste (http://www.coollaboratory.com/) on ebay I decided to give it a go as it made claims to beat every other Paste on the market. The paste is a Gallium Indium alloy with traces of precious metals (probably as anti-corrosion additive), pretty similiar to what is used in the Sapphire Blizzard Cooling GPU System.

User reviews I've seen gave mixed results, so I want to make a usefull review. Some people complained about corrosion on aluminum coolers and a 1 or 2 even on copper coolers. The majority however doesn't seem to have any problems and report noticeable temperature drops. The user instruction explicitly discourages from using it on aluminum coolers and state it should only be used on copper coolers, look at attached pics as to why. Since it is Metal, it is highly conductive and needs to be applied with great care, as it is also liquid any overdosage might result in metal drops being squized out at cooler installtion and shorting out circuits.

So my plan for the next few weeks is to test it on IHS, lapped IHS and directly on die and see how it compares to everybody's favorite AS 5 on installation and after 2-3 weeks to glimpse at the long term performance and corrosive qualities.

A little demonstration on Aluminum, making it crystal clear why it should be avoided with aluminum coolers. It will not even spread evenly as the aluminum corrodes in seconds.

Aluminum foil and Coollaboratoy liquid metal.
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/metaltim1.jpg

Small grain sized drop of liquid metal.
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/metaltim2.jpg

10 Seconds after spreading it on the foil, already dark corrosion areas present.
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/metaltim3.jpg

This is what happened when I tried to spread it more evenly
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/metaltim4.jpg

After seeing what happens to aluminum foil, i will use an old and expendable Athlon XP for the on die phase of the test, the protective layers on the die should, well protect it I guess :P, but any corrosion might impair future installations. If you have any suggestions as to the testing procedure or general comments, go ahead.


Update:

I experienced a little setback, involving a cat, pee and my testsystem. Obviously the Gallium had a aggravating effect on the poor little kitten and after first scratching the rig, decided to mark it's new hunting ground. I was only taking care of the cat during the summer vacation of a friend, she is gone now, but left me with lots of scratched furniture and bad smelling carpet. Guess that's why I consider myself a dog person.

Anyway, my hardware scrapyard still had a MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum within and a poor overclocking Venice CPU (removed IHS, 2590 MHz max) with my spare TT Big Typhoon, so I reset the long term Test.

The little data I collected on the old System (Asus A7V880, Athlon Xp3200+ @ 2420 MHz, 1,85 Vcore, Thermalright SLK-800U) and the initial results of the New Platform after 4 Hours of Prime large FFTs :

Athlon XP, AS5 on installation Idle Delta T Idle 7 Kelvin, Delta T Load 18 Kelvin
Athlon XP, AS5 after a few Days Delta T Idle 6 Kelvin, Delta T Load 16 Kelvin (second test done before this long term test)

Athlon XP, Gallium on installation Delta T Idle 5 Kelvin, Delta T Load 13 Kelvin
Athlon XP, Gallium a few Days Delta T Idle 5 Kelvin, Delta T Load 13 Kelvin

Venice, AS5 on installation Delta T Idle 3K, Delta T Load 15 Kelvin
Venice, Gallium Alloy in installation Delta T Idle 2K, Delta T Load 12 Kelvin


Installation of the Gallium needs more care than AS5, the amount of Gallium needed is very small, excessive amounts will be squized out during installation, and considering it's conductive nature, you don't want any droplets building next to the CPU die. A very thin silvery coat is all that is needed, I reinstalled the Heatsink several times to check if the quantitiy was right, I need 2 tries to find the right amount.

I also have a few control copper plates to examine after the test is done. Some have a layer of Gallium, some AS5 and some straight copper, all stored in a sealed container. 7 Days into the test, I checked one of the Copper/Gallium plates for signs of corrossion. The surface still had the silvery mirror appearance of the Gallium. After cleaning off the Gallium with a cloth and isopropyl alcohol, the surface had no signs of corrosion.

My non final conclusion is that this stuff actually works, and the long term effects don't seem to be as bad as I first imagined (7 Days is way too short for a final assessment). Of course it still very much is only for extreme enthusiasts, and the application process needs to be done very carefully. But for water and aircoolers (with copper contact surfaces) looking for every single K improvement, it might be worth checking out. The limited temperature range makes it unsuited for chilled liquid and phase change users though. Next update in a week.


Final Update:

After 3 weeks on the second test platform it is time for the final results.

I am impressed by the effectiveness of the liquid metal. It consistently outperformed AS5 by a minimum of 3 K under load on the Venice platform. On the Atlhon XP the results were even better, I assume this is due to the bigger surface area. I might test it with a IHS CPU one day, but the nature of this material makes it an enthusiast only choice imho, many of which remove the IHS. The performance did not degrade or enhance over the period of 3 weeks, which indicates despite it's liquid nature it will stay in place over long period of time even in vertical position..

There are some bad news however. While checking the heatsink and control surface after cleaning, I did notice some hard to remove traces of the liquid metal. After trying to clean them of with isopropyl alcohol, aceton and even nitro paint thinner the traces remained. It seems some of the Gallium/indium bonds with the copper or its' impurities permanently. The only way I was able to remove it, was by lapping the surfaces. The CPU die also has several traces of the liquid metal, I don't know if these are the result of my mounting methods or a bonding effect with the protective layers of the CPU die, the uneven distribution lets me think it's the former. The consistency of the temperature measurements suggest that these traces do not affect performance greatly. My limited metallurgy knowledge lets me speculate this "cold alloying" only creates a thin outer layer that stops the process from continuing further into the material (if you had any metallurgic education, please share your knowledge).


CPU after 3 weeks, Liquid metal still with silvery appearance
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/lmfinal1.JPG

Cleaned CPU, traces of liquid metal circled
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/lmfinal2.JPG
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/lmfinal3.jpg

Control surface with thick layer of liquid metal
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/lmfinal4.jpg

Cleaned control surface with bonded liquid metal
http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/lmfinal5.jpg

So what's the verdict? It's conductive, doesn't like every material, is harder to install (you most certainly don't want too much) and leaves traces after a while, but on the other hand it beats other thermal interface materials hands down. Reminds me of of nitrous oxide, a nice performance boost, but if you are not careful it will blow your engine up.

Personally, I will se it for benching new components, but for everyday use stick to my acrtic ceramique.

[Ugly n Grey]

I read up on it and gave it a pass, thermal paste should be entirely non conductive, period in my my opinion. I'll stick with AS.

[Fairydust]

I agree with you and will only use it to conduct a test, but hey this is xtreme systems and some people would use uranium 235 if it would keep their CPU any cooler. The conductivity is not my major concern though after all we run serious amounts of water though our PCs :D , long term corrosion would be a much bigger problem imho.

[naTTen]

What is it made of? A T1000 ? :)

[One_Hertz]

I agree with you and will only use it to conduct a test, but hey this is xtreme systems and some people would use uranium 235 if it would keep their CPU any cooler.

Will it? :D

Regardless wether it is conductive or not u still shouldnt put any on your components... Agree with fairydust corrosion would be a bigger problem.

[situman]

I read up on it and gave it a pass, thermal paste should be entirely non conductive, period in my my opinion. I'll stick with AS.

Only AS Ceramique is non conductive.

[BGP Spook]

AS5 is fundamentally nonconductive. But it is slightly capacitive, so it will interfere with a circuit it contacts.

Someone on another forum I frequent got some in some on his memory (custome watercooling his memory) and the memory stopped working. After he took them into the bath with him and scrubbed them down with a soft bristle brush and air dried them they worked again.

[cartmanea]

I'll stick with AS5 and Ceramique. I have yet to see more than 1 degree difference between these two on bare cores with heatsink lapped to 2000 grit, or on IHS cores with heatspreader and heatsink lapped. I usually use Ceramique as you can get a 22g tube for $7 :)

On contact surfaces that aren't as smooth (unlapped) AS5 pulls ahead slightly, but Ceramique does better on well lapped contact surfaces because it has smaller particles.

[skycrane]

when you tried to spread it out, did it compleatly eat through the aluminium foil???

[saratoga]

AS5 is fundamentally nonconductive. But it is slightly capacitive, so it will interfere with a circuit it contacts.

Capacitance is not really a property paste could have, particularly if its noncoductive. If you mean they'll be some compacitance between teh die and the heatsink, thats true of any paste, so don't worry about it.

[Fairydust]

when you tried to spread it out, did it compleatly eat through the aluminium foil???

Yes it did. I think it reacted with the aluminum to form a alloy which oxidises extremely fast. The oxide is very brittle and fell apart when I tried to spread the Gallium/ Indium alloy.

[alpha0ne]

Hmm very interesting, I look foward to seeing your results

When applied to aluminum does it give off any gases ??

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

i wonder if this stuff is toxic at all? and what about clean up and disposal of it? i use ceramique, since its cheap, works great, not conductive at all. so i dont need to worry about shorts if it somehow works its way onto pcb.

[Fairydust]

@alpha0ne:
I didn't see or smell any gas buildup at first, but since you asked i had to test for it. The simplest test i could devise, was to repeat the application under water. So i grabbed my scuba gear and headed down to to the north sea, finally there yours truly noticed he forgot to refill his cylinders, so back home I went. :p:

Arriving home I came up with a simpler approach, simply use a glass beaker, attach aluminum foil to the bottom and fill it with water. When I applied a drop of the gallium/indium to the foil, it would not spread at all. I think the lack of oxygen preventened the gallium from building a layer of gallium oxide, which is the sticky stuff that enables the initial adhesion to the surface. Instead it kept it's mirror finish in drop form and would simply roll around the foil.

In phase two i tried applying the drop of gallium/indium in ambient air to a wet piece aluminum foil. The application took longer than in dry conditions, I noticed some water turning grey, which I think is the gallium oxide dissolving in the water and not sticking to the gallium and foil. After 1-2 minutes a grey layer formed on top of the aluminum , shortly after that bubbles appeared in the water layer. After about a minute of bubbling away, I was left with these
fluffy gray remains (http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/metaltim5.jpg), 2 (http://www.honigtopf.mynetcologne.de/metaltim6.jpg)

I am more a physics person than chemistry, so I will not try to explain it and screw up badly.

@ WeStSiDePLaYa: It is non toxic, both indium and gallium in metal form are non toxic, I am not 100% certain what additives are added, but they are all in metal form and very few metals are toxic, all of which would have no use in this alloy. Edit: It appears there are some studies suggesting indium has very low toxicity levels in Swiss mice (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7589924&query_hl=2). So it's safe to say we shouldn't use it as a food supplement in large qunatities. But for normal usage, I havn't seen any reports about toxicity

[fareastgq]

that stuff may be better inside pipes that contain no O2.

[chinkgai]

rofl, u were gona do it in the sea...which woulda added salt to the equation ;)

anyways...how much did you pay for it and how much did you get?

also...when are we gettin results??? thanks!

[KILLorBE]

anyways...how much did you pay for it and how much did you get?

It's about $8.50 (€6.90) for 1.5 Gram.

[Fairydust]

The on die test started on Monday, i decided on 3 weeks duration. I choose the ondie first because there is less variables than with the IHS versions, so the temperature measurements should be more accurate.

Price is 6,90 € for roughly 1 gramm. You only need extremely small quantities for installation, so this wil definitely be enough for several installations.

[BGP Spook]

Capacitance is not really a property paste could have, particularly if its noncoductive. If you mean they'll be some compacitance between teh die and the heatsink, thats true of any paste, so don't worry about it.


Sorry for OT:
AS5 (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm)
If you follow the link and look under the heading "Not Electrically Conductive:"
You will find this:

Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.
(While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.)
Quoted from the Arcticsilver website.


I wonder what that gray fluffy stuff is.

[Fairydust]

I wonder what that gray fluffy stuff is.

Should be the oxyde fluffed up by the gas buildup.

[Ugly n Grey]

Only AS Ceramique is non conductive.
put a line of AS down on a piece of paper and then try and pass a current through it...

[moonlightcheese]

Sorry for OT:
AS5 (http://www.arcticsilver.com/as5.htm)
If you follow the link and look under the heading "Not Electrically Conductive:"
You will find this:

Quoted from the Arcticsilver website.


I wonder what that gray fluffy stuff is.
capacitative meaning it will hold a charge and release it at a slow rate. AS5 on VCC lines won't do anything, but spread across, say, memory bus leads, will cause data corruption. anything can have a capacitive property. batteries are basically capacitors that release a certain voltage and wattage. they are filled with alkaline metals and acids. AS5 has a similar consistency so it's ability to hold charge is not surprising.

[masterofpuppets]

AS5 is fundamentally nonconductive. But it is slightly capacitive, so it will interfere with a circuit it contacts.

Someone on another forum I frequent got some in some on his memory (custome watercooling his memory) and the memory stopped working. After he took them into the bath with him and scrubbed them down with a soft bristle brush and air dried them they worked again.

He took his RAM in the bath? :slapass: :nono:

[BGP Spook]

He took his RAM in the bath? :slapass: :nono:


Well it worked! The memory started working again. So no :slapass: or :slap: why not :toast: instead.

I wish I could find the thread but it appears to have "fallen" off the other forum so...

[MaxxxRacer]

this stuff is pretty freaky.. but i will stick with as5 and lumiere...

[skycrane]

this stuff is pretty freaky.. but i will stick with as5 and lumiere...


that might be the best Maxxx, i dont think i would try this stuff either, way to may wierd things going on for me.....

[chinkgai]

nooooo

at least try on something expendible like you said and report since you bought it already! ;)

[Reznik Akime]

Dude, I wouldnt even use it for anything. I would just keep it in a vial and shake it around to look at it. <<;

[chinkgai]

its gona haunt u if u dont try...

[IYP]

ki get like a gallon?

[Fairydust]

Update on Page 1.

[Major]

So whats the verdict ??

I'd like to know how it does using vapor phase ?

[Fairydust]

I wouldn't recommend it for phase change as it will expand as it solidifies.

[Major]

I wouldn't recommend it for phase change as it will expand as it solidifies.

Are you 100% about that ? almost all metals contract with cold and expand with heat.

[Fairydust]

I know gallium shouldnt be stored in glass containers because it will brake em when cooled to a solid. I would think this also goes for the gallium alloy.

I don't know how this cold soldering would affect adhesion to surface. I might be wrong in my opinion that it is unsuited for phase change. Still got 10 grams of the stuff, so if anyone with phase change and expendable equipment wants to give it a go, pm me.

[chinkgai]

it beat AS5 by a whopping 3-5 kelvin??? how much is that in celcius? :)

[Fairydust]

Kelvin is basically Celsius with absolute zero (–273,15 °C) as 0, so no negative values are ever needed. A delta T of 4 K is also a delta T of 4°C.

[IvanAndreevich]

Major
Liquid metal -> solid. Solid is crystalized, so the volume is larger. Same thing as with water -> ice. It's different from regular cooler -> less volume when there is a phase change involved (liquid to solid)

[One_Hertz]

Woa beat As5 by 3C at least :slobber:

How much do you want for it?

[KILLorBE]

Woa beat As5 by 3C at least :slobber:

How much do you want for it?
You can find it on eBay.de (German eBay) it's ~$8.50 (€6.90) + ~$5 S&H (US$).

[MaxxxRacer]

no discussing of selling/buying or prices on open forums.. take it to PM's if you want to purchase the gallium.

interesting that it beat as5 by so much. I'd like to see it tested on a calibrated test bench.

[IvanAndreevich]

Is there any website review of it?

[Fairydust]

There is only 1 Review I know of, at Allround PC (http://www.allround-pc.com/index.php?reviews/05103/bericht.htm) . But it's in german and the test methods are not spectacular.

[STEvil]

isnt gallium toxic guys?

...

[Fairydust]

That was already discussed in this thread. No it is not.

[Nubius]

wow that's some crazy stuff....like many of the others I'm sticking to AS5 myself lol...wouldn't want to try and mess with that.

Well I think putting that on an AMD64 IHS would prove to my friend that they aren't aluminum tops :D If they were aluminum it'd corrode them right? I believe I saw someone who lapped their IHS and it was copper....anyone else vouche for that?

[STEvil]

zinc plated copper, like all other IHS's.

You can weigh it and compare the mass to the same amount of aluminum if you want.


As to the toxicity - I was thinking of GalliumArsenide (I think) which is toxic.. and some others. Did some research on this a while back..

[Fairydust]

Final update added.

[freecableguy]

I bit, bought some....I'll give it a try. Seems good results. Who knows how well it will do with phase change...we'll find out.

[chinkgai]

Reminds me of of nitrous oxide, a nice performance boost, but if you are not careful it will blow your engine up.


:looksoveratnosbottle:

rofl, great line there

[Sentential]

I saw someone who lapped their IHS and it was copper....anyone else vouche for that?
Ya I can actually. My P4 lapped is copper as well.

[thegreek]

wow that's some crazy stuff....like many of the others I'm sticking to AS5 myself lol...wouldn't want to try and mess with that.

Well I think putting that on an AMD64 IHS would prove to my friend that they aren't aluminum tops :D If they were aluminum it'd corrode them right? I believe I saw someone who lapped their IHS and it was copper....anyone else vouche for that?
There is no big difference though, about 1-2 C better

[MaxxxRacer]

IHS can gain you nothing, all the way to 8C better depending on the contact the IHS was getting with the core.

[moonlightcheese]

think about it... you're lapping a piece of metal that sits between the die and the heatsink... so really you're just making a thermal resistor slightly less resistant at transfering heat from one surface to the other. but it's still a wasted piece of metal that no amount of lapping or changing will bring you ANY benefit. just take the stupid thing off XD

[Ray_GTI-R]

Fairydust & xtremesystems - thanks for the info. Have ordered some & will test it on a copper-cored Prescott P4 socket 478 heatsink.

Fairydust - what is the broken black stuff in "...lmfinal4.jpg"?

From the tiny info I've found so far on this product I've heard that Brasso is the thing to clean up LM - followed by the usual aclohol based cleaner followed by acetone just in case. The remains shown after "ordinary" cleaning in the pics that Fairydust has kindly recorded are encouraging to me. Logically, it seems that LM has found some pits and filled them?

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

think about it... you're lapping a piece of metal that sits between the die and the heatsink... so really you're just making a thermal resistor slightly less resistant at transfering heat from one surface to the other. but it's still a wasted piece of metal that no amount of lapping or changing will bring you ANY benefit. just take the stupid thing off XD
unless you lap straight through it to your core and only in the center. then it saves you from core-crushing AND you get the advantage of no IHS! :)

[moonlightcheese]

unless you lap straight through it to your core and only in the center. then it saves you from core-crushing AND you get the advantage of no IHS! :)
ROFL. you be the first to try it bloody haha!

[chinkgai]

unless you lap straight through it to your core and only in the center. then it saves you from core-crushing AND you get the advantage of no IHS! :)

roflmao

[Fairydust]

Fairydust - what is the broken black stuff in "...lmfinal4.jpg"?

Must be the camera angle. Despite the black appearance on this picture it actually was all shiny and silvery in reality.

[Nubius]

well I wasn't necessarily talking about temperature benefits of lapping the core, moreso I was just confirming that it was copper

[Ray_GTI-R]

Got some in the post today and I've been playing around with it ever since. This stuff is truly alien technology - it's doing my head in.

Fact:- it's very liquid and the hotter it gets the more liquid it gets
Fact:- as recommended, on aluminium it's very reactive. I'm not talking surface markings, this stuff just eats fresh aluminium
Fact:- put too much on and it will drip, if it gets hot it will drip more. Not a problem if your heatsink is parallel with the ground.
Fact:- at first sight it has a surface tension, just like water - when first applied to a bare metal heatsink it just sits there, you have to "work it" to get a thin film coverage like the ads. When I applied it with a cotton bud I was alarmed by what seemed to be impurities left behind - that's normal, just excess material, not impurities ... maybe the reason for my earlier question.
Fact:- it's very difficult to photograph with intense flash. It'll look black or just completely fool the camera focus, hence the question/reply by Fairydust
Fact:- neither petrol, alcohol nor acetone(!) will completely clean off this stuff. In my case, only Brasso does the trick. Reading the supplied instructions reinforces this. I've double-checked with an 8x jewellers' glass.
Fact:- it's conductive OK. In the course of playing around I obtained a 1" long thin layer with zero electrical resistance along that length.
Fact:- it won't dry out (I was hoping it would "cure" a bit to make a more pliant material). I played a hairdryer over a die-sized area and it just got wetter as the temperature went over the too-hot-to-handle boundary and blobs of it ran together & followed the direction of gravity.
Fact:- it won't shatter glass in the short-term. I wanted to see the results in action so I used a glass sheet to observe the way it spread on my copper core. When I finished I cleaned off the glass (with petrol, then Brasso, then petrol) and the glass was undamaged.
Fact:- it won't cure big imperfections with either die or heatsink but minor imperfections are handled OK. The instructions quote a layer of 0.003 to 0.005 mm. The Intel copper-cored heatsink I used had a huge dip at the centre (no wonder it was cheap - I've never seen anything so bad before, it was obviously a second). Small imperfections are handled very well.

Opinion:- if I were to use this (a big if at the moment) any setup would have to have a motherboard that is parallel & level with the ground. At the more usual 90degrees to horizontal I would have to be very sure that the amount that I had applied was right and that no drips would form when the CPU got hot.
Opinion:- The instructions say use on the heatsink and/or the spreader. I tested it on just one surface (the heatsink) and then on two surfaces (heatsink and a piece of clear plastic, just so that I could see what happens). I'd recommend using it on two surfaces, the joint just seems to "stick" better when applied on two surfaces.
Opinion:- while I've been typing this (took an hour!) I've had a sample in the freezer. Under -24C (limit of my thermometer) and it's still liquid!

Unknown:- does it expand significantly when cooled significantly below ambient? My guess is no???
Unknown:- does it give off a gas when in contact with aluminium? My guess is yes???
Unknown:- what it's made of. My guess is that it's definitely alien technology???

[Fairydust]

What is it made of: The Answer is 47.

The result of your freezer experiment are not what I got, mine frooze solid pretty quickly.

I didn't have any dripping problem during my little test, the surface adhesion and cappilar action held it firmly in place on my vertical testbeds. Finding the right amount initially took some tries, but after that it was pretty straight forward. I guess it's a little harder with the IHS as there is way more area.

Do some more temperature tests, that's all they ever want :P

[One_Hertz]

Do some more temperature tests, that's all they ever want :P

Yes, please do so I am quite interested.

[Ray_GTI-R]

Doing this stuff is all pretty new to me and after 24hrs, I'm still testing the physical side of LM before trusting it on one of my precious PC's (I don't have a testbed PC ... yet!). Also, I don't have any proper test tools/software for testing the temperature so my results will be very unscientific. I've got MBM5, Sandra Pro & Abit's hardware monitoring but that's it. All I can say right now is that Fairydusts results are OK with me and I'd use LM as my first choice for my next project, relegating my ShinEtsuMicrosi to 2nd place. When I get round to it I'll post my unscientific results.

[Ray_GTI-R]

unless you lap straight through [the IHS] to your core and only in the center.I understand that there is a layer of thermal pad material sitting between the core and the IHS. So this lapping method - as with complete IHS removal - eliminates both IHS thermal resistance and thermal pad thermal resistance. Unlike complete IHS removal, any excess pressure from the heatsink fixings is still taken up by the remaining ☺-shaped surround acting as a physical brace. Which is what it was designed for (badly, I know but we're talking mass-production engineering not "The Best"). Removing unecessary material whilst retaining physical integrity sounds like good, simple engineering practice.

I'd save time by cutting off most of the top of the IHS with my favourite zinc-copper removal machine/s leaving a roughly ☺-shaped surround, de-burr, remove any thermal material from the core then give a careful lap.

Now, seriously. Where can I get a zero-static sealed ZIF 478 socket to load the chip into during all this brutal work? (yes, I've seen the modified static bag method, thanks :stick: ).

[fareastgq]

Now, seriously. Where can I get a zero-static sealed ZIF 478 socket to load the chip into during all this brutal work? (yes, I've seen the modified static bag method, thanks :stick: ).

I call it electrical tape :)

[Ray_GTI-R]

I've taken a few pictures of the first 24/48 hrs of my playful experiments with LM (the physical aspects). I recommend first reading the tiny text file of my description of each pic before you download megabytes (just in case you are expecting something else). The text file is here;- http://freespace.virgin.net/ray.w/LM/lm2.txt

There are 18 pics here;- http://freespace.virgin.net/ray.w/LM/

Please note that these pics are around 500K each or thereabouts as I wanted to keep picture quality. FTP'ing them onto your machine first might be an option whilst also reading the descriptions?

Any/all comments welcome. Also feed me back if you have any problems accessing anything I've linked in this message.

HTH, Ray

[Ray_GTI-R]

Just read this elsewhere on the Interweb;-

"an alloy of 24% indium and 76% gallium is liquid at room temperature" &

"[this product] has no cure time.... it'll always be in a liquid state*, it is electrically conductive** ... toxicity shouldn't be a problem."

* I'm guessing that means "at moderate temperatures" like my something under -24C test.
** I agree, it's very conductive.

Also spotted on biomass & soot ... latest cutting-edge graphics card heatpipes with liquid metal in them - would require no mechanical pump, could be driven by magnetism making it very quiet, manufacturers won't say what the liquid metal is.

Do we want to know more?

[Fairydust]

I still don't know why your Metal didn't solidify in the freezer, how long was it inside? -24 C is way below room temperature, for melting points of Gallium alloys check out this site. (http://www.gselectronic.de/AIM-Specialty_Materials.htm)

In the discussion about the liquid metal graphic card coolers from nanocoolers (Sapphire Blizzard cards), we already knew it was a gallium based coolant. The nanocoolers website has been changed, and liquid metal cooling isn't even mentioned anymore. The Inq (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=25164) has a pretty good article on it. It just isn't better than water cooling in a PC application, but a lot more problematic and expensive.

[jackyl]

I'm very interested in using this stuff "I have a nitroused moped :slobber: " But It's nothing more than taking your time with it. Like using a phase change setup.

I've see the auction on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Coollaboratory-Liquid-Metal-heat-conducting-paste_W0QQitemZ6814178930QQcategoryZ46322QQrdZ1QQc mdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting) . I've read through countless articles on this stuff. And honestly I'm sold. But I just want to know if anyone can tell me what the difference between this (http://www.scitoyscatalog.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GALLIUM&Category_Code=H) and the stuff that is being sold on ebay is? If it's the same stuff I'll spend the 30bucks plus shipping and never run out of thermal compound :D applied with a model paintbrush kicks ass!

[chinkgai]

the 30 dollar pic is like the same size as the pic from ebay...but over twice the cost of the ebay syringe...

how much exactly is the 30 dollar one? did i miss the exact amount? it escapes me.

[jackyl]

Well if it's the same stuff, that glass tube that is between the fingers would fill about 50 syringe's. But that's just from the looks of what you get in a syringe. I'm just wondering if it's the same stuff or what? The main pics are the same. Hard to say I'm just waiting to see if someone knows.

[chinkgai]

from the OP


Gallium Indium alloy with traces of precious metals (probably as anti-corrosion additive)

sounds like its not the same as yours, since the link you sent states:


This element (atomic number 31)

pure gallium vs a mixed alloy

[Fairydust]

chinkgai is right. The $30 dollar container is pure gallium, no alloy.

[freecableguy]

I'm going to bring this thread back to life. I have installed a pair of DD Low Profile Maze4 GPU sinks on an identically clocked, identically volted 7800GTXs. In a few days they go into my new SLI watercooling loop. One has this new Coollaboratory Liquid Pro liquid metal thermal compound on the block and the die. The other has AS5 only. We'll see which one does better. I hope the answer is the liquid metal because it looks like it's going to be a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: to get off the Maze4 if I need to!

-FCG

[max_Jaker]

the card above the other card will run hottest,....

[Ray_GTI-R]

I still don't know why your Metal didn't solidify in the freezer, how long was it inside? -24 C is way below room temperature
Sorry for the delay .... I tried to reply ages ago - foiled, dagnabbit! A repair-install of XP that was o/s since March 2005 did the trick.

The LM was in the freezer for long enough to drop below -24C ... obvious, I know! But it was at least 30 mins, probably longer but not more than 4hrs.

I've done some more physical tinkering with this and it's soooo weird. I've had a blob on a cotton bud for two weeks with an ambient of +/-20C ... no evaporation. LM simply spread out no problem. This time I tried it on stainless steel. Still very liquid!

Then I dry-wiped it and then Brasso'd the remaining - um - smear (!). Polished up a treat!!???!!!

What's all this worrying about, then? Why bother?

Well, what I want to do is get an optimum application method (for myself, coz I'm a thumb-fingered so-and-so) that will ensure that I get best thermal contact with minimum potential damage, given that this stuff is truly very, very conductive. And very, very liquid after a reasonably long time.

Ponder ... As most other thermal "paste" is non-conductive - if I get that application wrong, the dangers are small. No other damage. With this stuff, if I get any drips anywhere conductive& we're talking "big cost", replacement of major components etc etc.

Shoot me down, I don't care ... but make it factual :)

[IFMU]

http://www.frostytech.com/permalink.cfm?NewsID=46586

[freecableguy]

^^ what a dip, the directions were clear...

[Fairydust]

At least he didn't kill his Pc with it. RTFM if you don't know what you are doing.

[Susquehannock]

Many thanX for performing the test & sharing your results Fairydust. :toast: :clap:

BTW ....... the reason Brasso works to remove traces of this product is because of the
abrasive properties. Any mild abrasive will likely work in a similar fashion.

Products like Brasso used for polishing usually contain protective additives (wax, oil, etc ...)
which must then be removed before reapplying a TIM. Personally I'd just lapp the surface with
wet sandpaper & clean water instead.

[aMp]

Hey FCG, any results?

[J-Mag]

the card above the other card will run hottest,....

Not true, my GPU1 is below GPU2 and it runs hotter (lian li inverted V series, case it is in)

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:confused: Any news about ???

Just ordered some of this stuff - some ppl with more experience here ?

:toast:

[Entsafter]

I tested it with watercooling and lapped cpu's! Very impressive results -> 8-10&#176;C drop under load compared to arctic ceramique :D

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

I tested it with watercooling and lapped cpu's! Very impressive results -> 8-10°C drop under load compared to arctic ceramique :D

:eek: Holy $hit........ - 8-10°C !!! So maybe 4-6°C to AS5, really impressive!!

Did U have some probs to clean up the surface of CPU & cooler ?

Regards to Switzerland - Bern is a beautiful town, but beware of the Aare............. ;)

:toast:

[MaxxxRacer]

8-10 isnt possible from merely different thermal paste unless you were in Extreme temperatures. IE 100C+ or -100C or less.

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:confused: Hm - so anyone else used that liquide stuff ? Plz post here - experiences welcome............. ;)

:toast:

[Thrilla]

LoL
AS5 is bad too, it fried my video card.

Anyways, I've developed a liquid metal that does not eat aluminium :)
http://www.theubercomputers.com/reviews/computer/tim/paste.html

I've been using my own paste for a long time, pwns everything ATM, cuz it's really thin, works as an interface material rather than a layer of glue.

[MaxxxRacer]

Thrilla, all liquid evaporate.. that is a principle of physics. Just pointing that out as you said your liquid thermal paste doesnt evaporate.

Even mecury will evaporate, despite its very high atomic mass.

BTW, what material is your paste. You never mentioned.

[Thrilla]

Oh I never new that, but compared to the rate, it should be almost "non evaporating"
I do not want to mention the material yet, all I can say it's non toxic, and the MSDS (material safety data sheet) is pending, so far so good.

Btw thanks for the head up :)

[MaxxxRacer]

Ahh ic. Going to sell it or something? If not, why the hesitation?

[Trice]

Because someone will steal it!

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:confused: Any new experiences of cleaning? Don't wanna get a damaged surface on my copper cooler........ ;)

:toast:

[Fairydust]

After having used it on a few components, I found some which could be cleaned from the traces and some which required a bit of abrasive polishing, all depending on the durface quality. If you have a near perfect surface it comes off rather easily.

For what it's worth, I doubt the traces have any negative impact on performance as they mostly fill in the gaps of the surface.

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:D O.K. - here's some important news I figured out. Don't need to tell this stuff is best and all the blabla U already know but I found out a way for better cleaning the DIE.

This stuff is agressive and even if U use a copper cooler U will see traces of it after removing the paste........... :stick: - but no problem at all, tried 3 times a new charge of this stuff and had always the same good temps even the copper looks ugly now.....;)

But it's possible to clean the DIE. The first chip I used (Opteron IHS off) with the liqiud metal I tried to clean with a dry paper and after that with some Acetone. But I was not able to get the DIE clean - still some shadows on it.

On my second CPU (also Opteron IHS off) I tried a different procedure :

I didn't touch the DIE with the paste and I gave some drops of Acetone onto the DIE.

Waited 1 minute and then started cleaning it with a dry paper. Worked perfect for me, the DIE is looking like a virgin's :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: !!! :eek:

So maybe this agressive stuff first needs some time to react with the Acetone before it can be removed without leaving some traces......

:toast:

[Budwise]

what would you guys recommend on a bare core? Im using AS5 for now, but if there is some new stuff that is better im willing to give it a try...

[Thrilla]

Coolermaster NanoFusion is better, but not as sticky, takes some effort to apply it. But the good thing is it won't short close traces on a motherboard like AS5 would. :) I don't think it's out yet... or is it?

[MaxxxRacer]

AS5 isnt conductive, only slightly capacitive.

[largon]

This stuff is very close to galinstan (http://www.geratherm.com/en/technologie_galinstan) (alloy of gallium, indium and tin) used in liquid metal thermometers...

I think I'll grab one of those thermometers and "lure" the goo out...

[Cooper]

Hey guys ! Can I use this compound on CPU with HS on ? Or it`ll get messed up ? I have an Opty 146 here.

[Angry_Steel]

Coolermaster NanoFusion is better, but not as sticky, takes some effort to apply it. But the good thing is it won't short close traces on a motherboard like AS5 would. I don't think it's out yet... or is it?

So if you dont even know if its out yet, how can you say its better? Ive seen like one "review" for the stuff that was pretty much good for laughs is all.

As far as ruining something with AS5, I really dont see how unless you put the stuff on like peanut butter, or start dropping it all over the place.

[Ray_GTI-R]

After 5 months :eek: I've finally gotten around to trying Liquid Metal (LM) on a CPU.

The bottom line is that comparing LM to my "reference" paste - ShinEtsu Microsi (SM) there's no real difference in temperatures. I'm using just the BIOS, for "pure" temperature readings. Rather than stress the CPU to get variations in temperatures I took a different route ... to vary the speed of the "case" fans. So 100% fans give a blast of cool air while a minimal fan speed just keeps the rest of the components cool. This results in a spread of 5C, purely for comparison, to mimic a hotter CPU.

Initally in all the tests SM was 2 degrees C cooler than LM. Not satisfied, I took everything apart and checked. :slapass: I'd only applied LM to the cooler, the Intel IHS merely had tiny spots of LM. So, I cleaned the IHS (with Brasso & isopropyl alcohol) and applied LM to the IHS as I should have done first time. With both the heatsink and the IHS coated, this time LM performed better but was still very disappointing ... LM was still 1 degree C warmer than SM.

I also ran some windows benchmarks and they simply confirmed what the BIOS had already told me.

Conclusion:-
Maybe this is an extreme compound for extreme situations but my "average" setup just doesn't need it. Given that LM is electrically very conductive (= dangerous if not used carefully), hard to apply/remove properly, must never be used on aluminium & shows no improvement over SM ... I'm sticking with SM. I still have LM on my test rig and have no problem with that but next time I put it together I'll use SM.

HTH, Ray

Equipment used;-
Modified HSPC Tech Station V2, large (twin 120mm fans)
Intel 2.4C standard
Lapped Intel Extreme Edition HSF
Asrock P4COMBO
(other stuff which isn't relevant)

----------------------------------------------------

For the record, below are some snippets I found very extremely when deciding what to do ... my comments are in square [ ... ] brackets:-

Geeky 102-06-2004, 03:30 AM
Well, here's my take on the whole thermal compound debate.

First, most of the reviews that I've seen of various thermal compounds are totally worthless. They use CPUs as heat sources, which immediately invalidates their results. It is impossible to get a consistent heat output of known value from a CPU, at least with the tools available to virtually all enthusiasts. Intel or AMD can do it in their labs, but they have tools that we do not.

So, the only valid reviews of heatsinks, thermal compounds, etc., are those that use a fixed heat load of a known value. The most common way of doing this is to use a wirewound resistor that is attached to a heatspreader that simulates a CPU die.

Dan's Data (www.dansdata.com) and Frostytech (www.frostytech.com) are the only two places I know of off the top of my head that use this method. The only one of the two that has done testing on thermal compounds, to the best of my knowledge, is Dan's Data.

Dan of Dan's Data published "http://www.dansdata.com/goop.htm" an article on March 13, 2002, on this very topic.

His results are consistent with what I would expect, and what I've seen in my own personal experiences.

Arctic Silver in particular, and various other high performance compounds, may in fact outperform generic silicone-based thermal grease, but the difference is negligible at best.

I've used Arctic Silver's products for years, and I still do, but I do not think that their thermal compounds are the be-all, end-all solution to heat problems, which people (not here, mind you) sometimes seem to think.

The net effect of switching from generic white silicon-based grease to Arctic Silver might be 1-3*C, if you have a decently powerful HSF. (I would expect a larger decrease from a less powerful HSF, though) The reason why I use Arctic Silver's Ceramique in preference to "normal" thermal compound is that it's not much more expensive ($6 for 22g), and the performance may in fact be a bit better. But the price premium for AS5 is just too high to justify the negligible (if any) decrease in temperature, IMO.

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Nevin House 02-06-2004, 08:24 PM
Arctic Silver, Inc.

Geeky1,

The drawbacks to Dan's test are that his synthetic die had a large contact area of approximately 1 square inch (625 sq. mm), the heat was spread evenly across the entire contact area and relatively low power (50 watts) was used for the test.

An actual core on a modern CPU is between about 90 sq. mm and 190 sq. mm. But unlike a synthetic test unit, the heat is not spread evenly across the core. It has been documented that modern CPUs dissipate about 90% of their thermal energy through less than 40% of their top surface area. The cache area for example, dissipates very little thermal energy yet takes up a significant amount of space. The P4's heat spreader and Athlon64's CPU cap actually do very little heat spreading; they just protect the core, keep the heatsink flush and allow higher contact pressure.

The temperature gradients that exist across an AMD or Intel CPU core are well documented and understood by the people developing state of the art cooling solutions. http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20031006S0028

If other factors remain constant, every time you double the contact area, you cut the thermal resistance of the thermal joint in half. Conversely, if you cut the contact area in half, you double the resistance of the thermal joint.

So if two different compounds are tested on a large contact area like Dan used and the joint has thermal resistances of 0.05C/W and 0.07C/W (0.02C/W difference) depending on which compound is used, then reducing the contact area in half will increase the thermal resistances to 0.10C/W and 0.14C/W (0.04C/W difference). Cutting the contact area in half again will result in 0.20C/W and 0.28C/W (0.08C/W difference).

Ultimately, the difference that seems so insignificant at the large contact area becomes very significant at real-world contact areas. Dan uses a contact area almost 5X larger than the entire area of the average CPU core and about 12X larger than the contact area of a CPU that actually transfers the majority of the heat. There is no dispute about the accuracy of his measurements, it is just important that people to understand how his data needs to be properly scaled to be relevant to thermal compound performance on an actual CPU.

This is basic science and math and we can use math to scale Dan's test results to where they are relevant to actual CPUs.

THE FOLLOWING ARE BASED ON DAN'S ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS.

Dan measures...
50 watts through 625 sq. mm 0.02C/W Difference
Temperature difference = 1C (0.02 x 50 = 1)

Lets cut the contact area in half .

50 watts through 312 sq. mm 0.04C/W Difference
Temperature difference = 2C (0.04 x 50 = 2)

Lets cut the contact area in half again.

50 watts through 156 sq. mm 0.08C/W Difference
Temperature difference = 4C (0.08 x 50 = 4)

(This is getting close to the actual CPU contact area, but still does not account for some parts of the CPU core being hotter than other parts which would increase the difference between the compounds.)

Now you also have to adjust the differences for the actual power output of modern CPUs which is in the 70 to 105 watt range, not 50 watts.

Adjust for power and you end up at 5.6C and 8C differences at a realistic thermal transfer area of 156 sq. mm and CPU power dissipations of 70 watts and 100 watts respectively.

So ultimately Dan's measurements are accurate, it is just the incorrect interpretation of them that has made his review a favorite of people who want to believe that there is no difference in thermal interface materials.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Anon undated
Artic Silver 5 will [eventually???] dry out, leaving the cpu unprotected. Ceramique and GC type 44 (Spectra Cool) do not "dust away" or quit working. Spiral cut brass [assumes no lapping, no ambient "working" of the paste into the heatsink/IHS] is [best] filled by:
Wax
Platinum Flux
Silicone
Zalman's paste will do it
Heated Artic Ceramique (apply hot!-mount hot!-big mess!)
GC type 44 (Spectra Cool)

[I actually like the idea of pre-heating paste on the heatsink ... you see the result and if you don't like it you can reapply.]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Anon undated
Chip manufacturers [specify] phase change pads - they don't dry out or creep as some types of paste will. Silicone based paste does have a tendency to creep and many silver based pastes can dry out over time. There are only three types of paste to my knowledge that have proven to stand the test of time, Arctic Silver 3, GC Electronics Type 44 and Shin Etsu MicroSi.

Of the three mentioned, AMD gives an official ok to Shin Etsu for 'testing' purposes and Type 44 is an industry standard heatsink compound that is well proven in many areas of use. AS3 has probably been the most used paste other than the generic silicone and I have yet to hear of any drying or creeping problems.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Wikipedia current
Type 44 is Ester based rather than Silicone based.
[Ester: A general term for any organic molecule produced by combining an acid with an alcohol.]

--------------------------------------------------------------------

[Finally, of the more unusual experiments, I've heard that hardcore overclockers have used thin oil like the stuff used for sewing machines. This needs constant re-applying.]

[Ray_GTI-R]

Oh dear!

Oh dear, dear, dear!

Went to swap-out the motherboard on my test rig. Heatsink would NOT budge. Tried heating, tried freezing. No joy. Tried a TINY bit extra force on the frozen heatsink and AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH! The CPU came out of the socket. Frantically checked for broken/bent pins ... all OK. Phew!

Recap & advice.
a) Liquid Metal gave slightly sub-standard temps but mechanically OK when applied to ONLY ONE SURFACE (heatsink or IHS).
b) Liquid Metal gave slightly sub-standard temps but mechanically BAD when applied to BOTH SURFACES (heatsink and IHS).

More, miscellaneous info:-

Once removed from the motherboard socket it took a LOT of force to part the CPU from the heatsink. Checking the IHS & copper core I found that the Liquid Metal had taken on the consistency of Super Glue i.e., it wasn't liquid anymore and the two surfaces had hard patches of Liquid metal. I tried Brasso but had to re-lap the heatsink - also there seemed to have been a small reaction with the copper and the once-mirror surface looked - um - "wavey". Cleaning the IHS was a nightmare, as you can imagine. All in, getting rid of the Liquid Metal from the heatsink and IHS took 10 hours with every technique, material and chemical known to man. That includes a little bit of lying down to stop getting angry! And recalling how conductive Liquid Metal is, I was mindfull to be extremely careful about residues at every stage of the cleaning process. I'm not entirely convinced that I've removed all traces of this stuff from the IHS but it is now very, very shiney.

I have no clue why Liquid Metal is OK when applied to just one surface yet works so differently when applied to both mating surfaces. It's almost like it's a different compound :confused:

Anyone?
BTW I have photographs ...

Cheers, Ray
Always Look On The Bright Side Of Life Part II - I now have a lapped IHS :banana:

[Radical_53]

Well, I never had any problems with that stuff. Even when applying it to both surfaces (I do so if I use a block that hase been mounted before as it has a scratched surface).
Temps were around 3-4°C lower compared to some normal stuff like AS5, so I think performance changes drastically if you put the stuff on some really hot chips.
Strangely, I got the best difference when using it on my laptop's Centrino (1.5GHz Dothan running at 0.908V max).I gained 10°C there... compared to Ceramique.

[berk]

I think ive asked this question before,but have you tried putting a little bit of that LM into some AS5/ceramique?

[Ray_GTI-R]

I never had any problems with that stuff.

Yes - I'd not had any problems with it until now. Like I said, I took photo's and if anyone wants a look, hop over to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liquid-Metal and click on "Photos" in the left-hand menu. Membership approval will be necessary in order to stop pranksters & spammers!

Cheers, Ray

Update:- no one hopped so I've removed the Yahoo group.

[Radical_53]

Well, I've been using this stuff for like half a year at least. As I said, no problems ;) With no chip and no block I put it on.

[Ray_GTI-R]

Hey! I got solid material here. It glued my heatsink to my CPU and I proved it :stick:

Plus, I know it reacted with my copper core - I had to re-lap it back to flat.

OK, maybe I did something stoopid but what :dammit: ??? I did nothing radical. No sub-zero superconducting / bong / magnetic / peltier stuff. Just a stock CPU with a stock, lapped HSF. I swear! :wth:

I suspect Liquid Metal has reacted very badly with something that I used in the initial lapping/cleaning process. I used Brasso for the final polish, lighter fluid as the initial cleaner and finally, as ever, isopropyl alcohol to remove any residues. I know Liquid Metal hates cleaning fluids like petrol & acetone because it just sits there, does nothing and goes all moody. BUT Brasso shifts it really quickly although http://www.public-health.uiowa.edu/baecps/factsheets/Stoddard%20solvent.pdf says that the main ingredient (Stoddart Solvent) is a "... general cleaner and degreaser."

TIA, Ray
FWIW Brasso is said to contain Sodium Hydroxide as well as Petroleum Distillate. It is supplied to the UK Ministery of Defence ("won two world wars") & The Queen. Does that make it OK for Liquid Metal :confused: Not much more info here ... http://www.setonresourcecenter.com/msds/docs/wcd00004/wcd0045b.htm & here http://pages.slc.edu/~aschultz/chemical_hygiene/MSDS/facilities%20msds/POLISH%20BRASSO.PDF

[Cooper]

I know it reacted with my copper core

Well never experienced something like that with 3 mounts. Maybe these cleaning stuff surely left some and made such reactions

[Radical_53]

@ray: Well, as Cooper said I think you did something wrong there... I've been using this stuff for quite a while on a couple of chips, numerous mounts without any problems.

[Ray_GTI-R]

OK, thanks peeps.

I'll get back to the supplier and see if I can track down what I did wrong. If I get any feedback I'll update this thread.

Cheers, Ray

[Ray_GTI-R]

1st try at researching this problem ... found this at http://www.coollaboratory.com/manuals.shtml ;-

"Im Zeitraum von etwa 48 Stunden nach dem Auftrag (abhängig von der Dicke des Auftrages) verfestigt sich das aufgetragene Coollaboratory Liquid Pro".

Which, via Babel, translates into ...

"In the period of approximately 48 hours after the [?] (dependent on the thickness of the [?]) the laid on Coollaboratory liquid pro solidifies itself."

Hmmm ... my 1st attempt with this stuff I KNOW it was on for less than 48 hours and it was still liquid. My 2nd attempt I KNOW was on for more than 48 hours - 2 months more like (check my posts ... 03-16-2006 - 04-13-2006).

I just disposed of the remaining material, responsibly.

HTH, Ray

[Radical_53]

Why didn't you use this one? http://www.coollaboratory.com/Anleitung_ENG_NEU.pdf

The manual there only says something about what the stuff will do one a heatsink. There it gets solid, and there you'll have to use a metal polish to get it off.
But it doesn't bond everything together...

[Fairydust]

Coollaboratory announced (http://www.computerbase.de/news/hardware/gehaeuse_kuehlung/2006/oktober/erstes_waermeleitpad_metall/) a Metal Thermal Interface Pad today, available end of October. Seems to be a different alloy which melts above ambient and can also be use with aluminum. Will order a sample and test it, once it becomes available.

[Radical_53]

Yes, sounds interesting. Just like the "Ultra" version they announced.

[Bad213Boy]

I experienced a little setback, involving a cat, pee and my testsystem. Obviously the Gallium had a aggravating effect on the poor little kitten and after first scratching the rig, decided to mark it's new hunting ground. I was only taking care of the cat during the summer vacation of a friend, she is gone now, but left me with lots of scratched furniture and bad smelling carpet. Guess that's why I consider myself a dog person.

rofl, lololol
:kitten::kitten2::slash:

[Ray_GTI-R]

With the greatest respect ... I tried that NEW, SHOCK, HORROR page via Altavista's Babel translation - and it failed 3 times with an error decoding the text into English. Anyway, with my limited German - that's simply ONE review. Ask users what they think when the product solidifies, causes the CPU to be inadvertently ripped out of the motherboard and needs to be scraped off - Oh that's me. And I said that already.

Anyway - for the record ... I will never use any product from Coolabratory (or whatever they call themselves) ever again. Consider, if you will:- why produce a new heatpad product when you've already got the greatest thing ever invented? Hmmmm ..... I wonder if this thread has been hijacked by a couple of salesmen?

[Radical_53]

The pad seems to be for people that might fear to spill something of the stuff. The pad should be nearly the same stuff, just solid on normal temperatures.

Btw., how did you get the stuff to be solid again? Tried it on a chiller or something like that?