Mastakilla
08-01-2005, 02:05 PM
INTRO
Ive been brainstorming and planning ALOT about watercooling my current and previous system, it just never got that far... :/
but i really wanne do it now... ive been irritated too :banana::banana::banana::banana:in long allready with all that damn noise and high temps...
thats right... not only low temps matter to me, but also low noise is VERY important for me...
SYSTEM
my sig is kinda outdated... im planning to watercool the following system:
DFI NF4 Ultra-D
AMD Venice 3200+
GF6600GT (might be upgraded someday ;))
2x 250GB Samsung SATA300 in RAID0
2x 120GB Samsung SATA300 in RAID1
and that all in a CoolerMaster Stacker Case with 2 HD-bays, a dvd-writer, a dvd-rom and a floppy drive
OBJECTIVE
My objective is to have a silent system which is OC'ed to the max reasonable speed...
With silent i mean i want it to be really low noise... allthough i do want it to remain realistic... fe: i have an OCZ powersupply, which has 2 80mm fans which are pretty silent, but still make noise... i also have 4 (silent?) HDs allready which make noise too... this means that my system can never be more silent these components... this means that for my system there might be no difference between runnin a 120mm fan @ 5V and runnin it @ 7V in noise... so bein realistic i should prefer runnin the fan @ 7V instead of 5V, even though theoreticly this should make more noise...
also im smart enough to see the hidden traps of going passive for everything... passive requires airflow, so if i make everything passive, i surely have to keep my cm stacker fans @ 12V to cool down all passive heatsinks... but if i avoid too much passive, i might be able to run ALL my fans (also the case fans) at 7V for example (which could result in less noise then having everything passive and the case fans still @ 12v)
With OC'ed to the max reasonable speed i mean that it shouldnt be OC'ed till the LAST possible mhz... i am not a benchmark dewd, or a World Record CPU-Z screenshot hunter... i want a 101% :banana::banana::banana::banana:IN STABLE system that can run prime, memtest, pifast or whatever i throw at it as long as i want and when i want (also with those HOT summerdays)... so if that means runnin a stable 2700Mhz@1.5V instead of allmost stable 2850@1.7V then i will do that...
i hope this long explenation of my objective is clear enough, so no one is gonna start advising me Delta 120mm fans, or one of those UBER strong waterpumps ;)
WHAT COOLS WHAT?
1) Case and 4 HDs:
My CM Stacker case has 1 outtake 120mm 1800rpm fan in the back at the height of the CPU
It also has 2 intake 120mm 1800rpm fans in the front (part of the 2 HD-bays i have of it) they are located below the dvdrom and dvdwriter which are in the top of my stacker... the floppy drive is between those 2 HD-bays...
there also is a 80mm fan in top of the case... this fan is the loudest of all, so ill prolly not run it at all or @ 7V
these case fans should normally be enough to cool down my 4 HDs and keep the case temp at a reasonable level...
i will also try running all these fans @ 7V (or perhaps 9V if that aint to difficult)
if the noise drop justifies the drop in cooling performance ill keep em at this lower voltage, else i wont...
2) DFI NF4 Chipset:
first i wanted to watercool this chip, but, especially here, lots of people are against this cause it kills the flow of the waterloop too much... so i started gettin more and more intrested in those zalman passive chipset heatsinks... but after reading this thread:
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6577&page=1&pp=15
i noticed the zalman heatsink is too small to efficiently cool a heavely overclocked NF4 system...
so now i want to mod my own chipset heatsink out of an old cpu heatsink and cool it passive with that...
3) DFI NF4 PWMIC / Memory:
I noticed during the numerous hours of testing and overclocking with my winchester that it really did matter quite alot for me personally to have ALOT of airflow over the PWMIC area... with the default case fans i described above i coulnt get my system higher then 2400-2460mhz, but with a VERY loud and powerfull 120mm fan pointed directly at PWMIC i could get till 2600mhz (these speeds were just quick tests, no 101% stable tests)
so im also thinking of placing an extra (120mm low rpm?) fan directly at PWMIC (since with watercooling there wont be a stock heatsink on my A64 blowing air over PWMIC)
4) AMD Venice 3200+ and GF6600GT:
these 2 i wanted to watercool! and about this im still very confused... this is because most advice on this subject is specificly for silence or specificly for performance... and these two often are completely the opposite... the problem is that i want the best of both!! :D i want a good performing AND silent system... this gives some HUGE dillemas: i could get a HUGE radiator (360 size) which can handle the heat allmost passive.. but then ill also need a more powerfull pump cause that radiator restricts the flow more... i could also get a lil smaller radiator (240 size) with ALOT FPI, which restricts the water less, but then ill need more powerfull fans to cool it down...
also the restrictiveness for the waterblocks cause huge dillemas: i can find HUGE amounts of information about the best performing waterblocks in this forum, IF i would use a very powerfull pump... but i wouldnt know what block is the best if my pump aint that powerfull and also has a videocard in its loop + a big radiator...
all these dillemas cause me to keep on doubting forever about what watercooling stuff i should get (this has been goin on since 1999 allready now i guess ;))
another point to keep in mind is that i dont have a rich dad and/or unlimited funds... i allways investigate VERY hard if the extra price is worth it... this doesnt mean i would never buy high end stuff, if it is really worth it, i dont mind paying extra (fe: im very glad about my "expensive" logitech desktop mx and cm stacker case)
i also live in Europe, so ALOT of US stuff aint available here or is REALLY :banana::banana::banana::banana:IN expensive over here!!
a last important point is that i want to have everything INSIDE my CM Stacker case
WHAT I HAD IN MIND?
radiator fans:
i am pretty convinced of using Papst 4412FGL fans... papst because they are the only brand i trust 101%... and that specific type because they run 1700rpm @ 12V and thus are quiet... other brands might have 1700rpm 120mm for a lil cheaper, but i doubt that they remain silent after a few years of runnin... i might reduce the voltage to 7V or 9V later if the noise drop justifies the drop in cooling performance...
the only thing that seems bad to this fans is that they are only 25mm thick, but i couldnt find comparable 38mm fans...
offcourse u may still try to convince me of other fans, if u know any better (= silent, reliable, no less performance)
Pump:
First i was COMPLETELY convinced that i would buy an Eheim 1048... I know these pumps are REALLY reliable and silent, which i both appreciate VERY much
sidenote 1: i once had a few fish in an aquarium and an el-cheapo aquarium pump in my room, and i still have nightmares about the UNSTOPPABLE noise coming from that thing
sidenote 2: if anyone even tries advising an unreliable Hydor pump to me, i certainly hope u get delusered ;) a pump is about the most important thing in watercooling loop that shouldnt brake down, so i DONT wanne take any risques what so ever with my pump... (even if 90% of the complaints about hydor reliability are false, i still wouldnt wanne try it)
but most xtremesystem people seem to dislike the eheim pump for its weak performance, so i started re-evaluting other possibilities again as well...
I found one pump that might suit me too: the Swiftech MCP350 (perhaps modded for more flow?)
but im not at all convinced of this yet... so can people with both Eheim 1048 and swiftech MCP350 plz tell me how they compare to eachother in terms of noise and performance and ESPECIALLY reliability
i would also like to know, of people who know what they are taling about, how the "extra-flow-mod" might influence its reliability...
the MCP350 costs 95 euro over here, the eheim 1048 55 euro... actually i think 95 euro is too much for a pump (i allready think those 55 euro is really expensive, but its worth it cause i know it will be reliable) but if its really that much better then i might still consider it ;)
and if someone else knows another pump that is VERY silent and reliable, and "better" then the above mentioned, then plz let me know
Radiator:
Ive been doubting about what radiator to get for ages now... I know a heatercore has GREAT performance, and doesnt restrict the waterflow very much, but i also know a heatercore needs ALOT of airflow to cool good... and since im planning to use 25mm thick 1700rpm 120mm fans, this heatercore might not be the best solution (i pm'ed weapon about this allready, but he seems quite busy atm (for a few weeks allready), and i didnt receive an answer yet)
So after looking some more i found out a black ice pro II (= a thin radiator) might be more intresting then a heatercore for this type of fans? but still im not at all convinced that this thin radiator really would give me better performance...
CPU waterblock:
this one all depends on what flow/pressure i have left in the total loop i guess... so it depends on what pump i use, what radiator, what GPU waterblock, what hosing, etc... since i dont have alot experience with watercooling, its impossible for me to make a guess to what waterblock i should need
i only know that i want NO alu what so ever in my loop :p
the problem is that most shops / manufactures dont mention at all if it contains anything else then copper, so i dunno what blocks are ok
plz enlighten me on this subject ;)
GPU waterblock:
same here... dont know much... dont want alu... and it prolly all depends on the flow/pressure i got left i my loop
OUTRO
damn what a huge post from me ;)
i hope i didnt confuse u as much as i confuse myself with all my question :D
and i hope some of u can help me out a lil with all my problems...
all remarks / questions are welcome
THX ALOT dewds!
Ive been brainstorming and planning ALOT about watercooling my current and previous system, it just never got that far... :/
but i really wanne do it now... ive been irritated too :banana::banana::banana::banana:in long allready with all that damn noise and high temps...
thats right... not only low temps matter to me, but also low noise is VERY important for me...
SYSTEM
my sig is kinda outdated... im planning to watercool the following system:
DFI NF4 Ultra-D
AMD Venice 3200+
GF6600GT (might be upgraded someday ;))
2x 250GB Samsung SATA300 in RAID0
2x 120GB Samsung SATA300 in RAID1
and that all in a CoolerMaster Stacker Case with 2 HD-bays, a dvd-writer, a dvd-rom and a floppy drive
OBJECTIVE
My objective is to have a silent system which is OC'ed to the max reasonable speed...
With silent i mean i want it to be really low noise... allthough i do want it to remain realistic... fe: i have an OCZ powersupply, which has 2 80mm fans which are pretty silent, but still make noise... i also have 4 (silent?) HDs allready which make noise too... this means that my system can never be more silent these components... this means that for my system there might be no difference between runnin a 120mm fan @ 5V and runnin it @ 7V in noise... so bein realistic i should prefer runnin the fan @ 7V instead of 5V, even though theoreticly this should make more noise...
also im smart enough to see the hidden traps of going passive for everything... passive requires airflow, so if i make everything passive, i surely have to keep my cm stacker fans @ 12V to cool down all passive heatsinks... but if i avoid too much passive, i might be able to run ALL my fans (also the case fans) at 7V for example (which could result in less noise then having everything passive and the case fans still @ 12v)
With OC'ed to the max reasonable speed i mean that it shouldnt be OC'ed till the LAST possible mhz... i am not a benchmark dewd, or a World Record CPU-Z screenshot hunter... i want a 101% :banana::banana::banana::banana:IN STABLE system that can run prime, memtest, pifast or whatever i throw at it as long as i want and when i want (also with those HOT summerdays)... so if that means runnin a stable 2700Mhz@1.5V instead of allmost stable 2850@1.7V then i will do that...
i hope this long explenation of my objective is clear enough, so no one is gonna start advising me Delta 120mm fans, or one of those UBER strong waterpumps ;)
WHAT COOLS WHAT?
1) Case and 4 HDs:
My CM Stacker case has 1 outtake 120mm 1800rpm fan in the back at the height of the CPU
It also has 2 intake 120mm 1800rpm fans in the front (part of the 2 HD-bays i have of it) they are located below the dvdrom and dvdwriter which are in the top of my stacker... the floppy drive is between those 2 HD-bays...
there also is a 80mm fan in top of the case... this fan is the loudest of all, so ill prolly not run it at all or @ 7V
these case fans should normally be enough to cool down my 4 HDs and keep the case temp at a reasonable level...
i will also try running all these fans @ 7V (or perhaps 9V if that aint to difficult)
if the noise drop justifies the drop in cooling performance ill keep em at this lower voltage, else i wont...
2) DFI NF4 Chipset:
first i wanted to watercool this chip, but, especially here, lots of people are against this cause it kills the flow of the waterloop too much... so i started gettin more and more intrested in those zalman passive chipset heatsinks... but after reading this thread:
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6577&page=1&pp=15
i noticed the zalman heatsink is too small to efficiently cool a heavely overclocked NF4 system...
so now i want to mod my own chipset heatsink out of an old cpu heatsink and cool it passive with that...
3) DFI NF4 PWMIC / Memory:
I noticed during the numerous hours of testing and overclocking with my winchester that it really did matter quite alot for me personally to have ALOT of airflow over the PWMIC area... with the default case fans i described above i coulnt get my system higher then 2400-2460mhz, but with a VERY loud and powerfull 120mm fan pointed directly at PWMIC i could get till 2600mhz (these speeds were just quick tests, no 101% stable tests)
so im also thinking of placing an extra (120mm low rpm?) fan directly at PWMIC (since with watercooling there wont be a stock heatsink on my A64 blowing air over PWMIC)
4) AMD Venice 3200+ and GF6600GT:
these 2 i wanted to watercool! and about this im still very confused... this is because most advice on this subject is specificly for silence or specificly for performance... and these two often are completely the opposite... the problem is that i want the best of both!! :D i want a good performing AND silent system... this gives some HUGE dillemas: i could get a HUGE radiator (360 size) which can handle the heat allmost passive.. but then ill also need a more powerfull pump cause that radiator restricts the flow more... i could also get a lil smaller radiator (240 size) with ALOT FPI, which restricts the water less, but then ill need more powerfull fans to cool it down...
also the restrictiveness for the waterblocks cause huge dillemas: i can find HUGE amounts of information about the best performing waterblocks in this forum, IF i would use a very powerfull pump... but i wouldnt know what block is the best if my pump aint that powerfull and also has a videocard in its loop + a big radiator...
all these dillemas cause me to keep on doubting forever about what watercooling stuff i should get (this has been goin on since 1999 allready now i guess ;))
another point to keep in mind is that i dont have a rich dad and/or unlimited funds... i allways investigate VERY hard if the extra price is worth it... this doesnt mean i would never buy high end stuff, if it is really worth it, i dont mind paying extra (fe: im very glad about my "expensive" logitech desktop mx and cm stacker case)
i also live in Europe, so ALOT of US stuff aint available here or is REALLY :banana::banana::banana::banana:IN expensive over here!!
a last important point is that i want to have everything INSIDE my CM Stacker case
WHAT I HAD IN MIND?
radiator fans:
i am pretty convinced of using Papst 4412FGL fans... papst because they are the only brand i trust 101%... and that specific type because they run 1700rpm @ 12V and thus are quiet... other brands might have 1700rpm 120mm for a lil cheaper, but i doubt that they remain silent after a few years of runnin... i might reduce the voltage to 7V or 9V later if the noise drop justifies the drop in cooling performance...
the only thing that seems bad to this fans is that they are only 25mm thick, but i couldnt find comparable 38mm fans...
offcourse u may still try to convince me of other fans, if u know any better (= silent, reliable, no less performance)
Pump:
First i was COMPLETELY convinced that i would buy an Eheim 1048... I know these pumps are REALLY reliable and silent, which i both appreciate VERY much
sidenote 1: i once had a few fish in an aquarium and an el-cheapo aquarium pump in my room, and i still have nightmares about the UNSTOPPABLE noise coming from that thing
sidenote 2: if anyone even tries advising an unreliable Hydor pump to me, i certainly hope u get delusered ;) a pump is about the most important thing in watercooling loop that shouldnt brake down, so i DONT wanne take any risques what so ever with my pump... (even if 90% of the complaints about hydor reliability are false, i still wouldnt wanne try it)
but most xtremesystem people seem to dislike the eheim pump for its weak performance, so i started re-evaluting other possibilities again as well...
I found one pump that might suit me too: the Swiftech MCP350 (perhaps modded for more flow?)
but im not at all convinced of this yet... so can people with both Eheim 1048 and swiftech MCP350 plz tell me how they compare to eachother in terms of noise and performance and ESPECIALLY reliability
i would also like to know, of people who know what they are taling about, how the "extra-flow-mod" might influence its reliability...
the MCP350 costs 95 euro over here, the eheim 1048 55 euro... actually i think 95 euro is too much for a pump (i allready think those 55 euro is really expensive, but its worth it cause i know it will be reliable) but if its really that much better then i might still consider it ;)
and if someone else knows another pump that is VERY silent and reliable, and "better" then the above mentioned, then plz let me know
Radiator:
Ive been doubting about what radiator to get for ages now... I know a heatercore has GREAT performance, and doesnt restrict the waterflow very much, but i also know a heatercore needs ALOT of airflow to cool good... and since im planning to use 25mm thick 1700rpm 120mm fans, this heatercore might not be the best solution (i pm'ed weapon about this allready, but he seems quite busy atm (for a few weeks allready), and i didnt receive an answer yet)
So after looking some more i found out a black ice pro II (= a thin radiator) might be more intresting then a heatercore for this type of fans? but still im not at all convinced that this thin radiator really would give me better performance...
CPU waterblock:
this one all depends on what flow/pressure i have left in the total loop i guess... so it depends on what pump i use, what radiator, what GPU waterblock, what hosing, etc... since i dont have alot experience with watercooling, its impossible for me to make a guess to what waterblock i should need
i only know that i want NO alu what so ever in my loop :p
the problem is that most shops / manufactures dont mention at all if it contains anything else then copper, so i dunno what blocks are ok
plz enlighten me on this subject ;)
GPU waterblock:
same here... dont know much... dont want alu... and it prolly all depends on the flow/pressure i got left i my loop
OUTRO
damn what a huge post from me ;)
i hope i didnt confuse u as much as i confuse myself with all my question :D
and i hope some of u can help me out a lil with all my problems...
all remarks / questions are welcome
THX ALOT dewds!