Should I be getting better results? [Archive]

rupbert

07-30-2005, 10:05 AM

EDIT

Sorry mods, please move this to the relevant forum (XOC Q & A)...

EDIT

Hi guys,

New here, but already I am hooked!

San Diego 3700+
DFI Lanparty SLI-DR (618 bios)
1Gb (2 x 512Mb) Corsair XMSPro 3200
Asetek Waterchill cooling (cpu only)

I know this kit is probably run of the mill around here, however I am interested to see what your experienced opinions are.

Without increasing the memory voltage, it's Prime95 stable @ 2.47Ghz (11 x 225). Increasing the mem voltage to 2.9v (default 2.6) improves nothing. The default mem timings are 2.5-3-3-8...

CPU temp is 38 full load so I know it can be pushed further...

What is a realistic ceiling I should be able to hit with this setup? Is it worth the extra effort, or am I unlikely to get much more out of the cpu?

Many thanks in advance for showing interest to a newbie, I hope to enjoy the stay!

rupbert

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/cpuz.jpg

Ugly n Grey

07-30-2005, 10:09 AM

put a divider on the memory and gun for 2700-2900 prime stable. Your mileage may vary.

rupbert

07-30-2005, 12:27 PM

Thank you for the quick reply and correct advice.

I set the divider to 3/4, and I am currently running Prime95 stable @ 10 x 255...

I am taking it slowly, and will continue pushing.

Will report back with final results...

Thanks once again, much appreciated!

rupbert

Ugly n Grey

07-30-2005, 06:42 PM

No worries, I hope to see an OC addict forming, please do keep us updated on you efforts.
Ugly

rupbert

07-31-2005, 02:28 AM

^ :)

Well I seem to have hit a ceiling that with my knowledge I can't raise any higher...

Can't get the fsb past 260Mhz.

Have increased the dram voltage to 2.9v, tried the mem divider at 3/4 (150Mhz) and 7/10 (140Mhz) and still no joy...

The temperature of the cpu is still at 28c idle, but I keep ketting a blue screen before I boot into windows.

Any ideas?

thx, rupbert

EDIT

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/mem.jpg http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/cpuz255.jpg

cpulloverclock

07-31-2005, 02:38 AM

afireinside

07-31-2005, 02:50 AM

Have you lowerd the LDT multi to 3?

rupbert

07-31-2005, 03:17 AM

I understand the meaning of LDT, but how will it actually help with overclocking?

Well I lowered the LDT to 3, upped the dram voltage to 3v and I can boot into windows @ 260 x 10, it is not Prime95 stable though...

don_vercetti

07-31-2005, 03:37 AM

would raising the vcore help at all?

1.36 is quite low, maybe take it up to 1.4v-1.45v. And a BSOD is often a symptom of voltage too low.

Does he really need 3v to run the memory at 182mhz? I would have thought not.

killingspreez

07-31-2005, 03:58 AM

nono
with default v-core you should make the 2600-2700 easily but try 1,5v or so.
good luck, mine does 2850mhz stable and 3ghz suicide shot ;)

mfg

rupbert

07-31-2005, 04:02 AM

Thankyou don,

I lowered the dram back to 2.7v, reset the LDT to x5 and upped the vcore from 1.36 to 1.4v and it now seems Prime95 stable (will continue stability tests)...

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/cpuz26.jpg

I am 'xtremely' :p: happy with a 400Mhz increase! But will continue to push and see how much more I can get.

Would lowering the CPU multi to 9 and increasing the fsb even further be a better option? The memory is only running at 185Mhz...

Thanks again to everyone for their help thus far,

rupbert

don_vercetti

07-31-2005, 04:05 AM

n/p, you now have an fx-55!!

Keep raising the fsb a bit. With the DFI, you can probs get it to 300 or so, as long as the chip can take it. You may have to lower the multi, although your water cooling can probably take it. If it does start to get unstable, raise the vcore a wee bit more to see if it helps.

rupbert

07-31-2005, 04:19 AM

Still nervous about going 'too far', but will take your advice and increase the fsb slowly...

Temperature @ full load is 39c

Will keep updating my results...

rupbert

07-31-2005, 04:22 AM

[QUOTE=don_vercetti]...you now have an fx-55!!QUOTE]

I know the speed is the same, but surely it would not perform as well?

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 04:50 AM

[QUOTE=don_vercetti]...you now have an fx-55!!QUOTE]

I know the speed is the same, but surely it would not perform as well?

Why not? If it's the same or faster speed, of course it will.

Don't be afraid of hitting that chip with volts under a water cooling system, consider 1.6 to be your upper deck for now and take it as far as you can go stable. Concentrate on overclocking one thing at a time. In this case the CPU first. Leave the RAM on a divider and worry about OCing it later.

Once you find the upper reaches of your gear, you can always come back to a point where you feel comfortable with heat and durability.

On your other question, leave the multi high, it gives more choices for overclocking the RAM later....

rupbert

07-31-2005, 05:09 AM

Okay thanks Ugly,

The reason I asked if the performance was the same was due to me lowering the LDT, I read elsewhere that this can creat a 'gap' in memory performance?

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 05:42 AM

Okay thanks Ugly,

The reason I asked if the performance was the same was due to me lowering the LDT, I read elsewhere that this can creat a 'gap' in memory performance?

I am unaware of this, maybe one of the other gentlemen here could fill us in.

You have a good chip, I think you'll end up with a fairly high stable OC in the end. :banana:

rupbert

07-31-2005, 05:50 AM

I know I am in good company when I see that dancing banana!

rupbert

07-31-2005, 06:35 AM

Just been told that my memory bandwidth will be slow due to the frequency it is running at, is this the case?

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/mem.jpg

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 06:47 AM

Yes at that frequency bandwidth is not all that great, but finding the upper limit of one or the other at a time is kind of the key. Then you combine what you learned and take it as high as a package as makes sense to you.

What rev is that Corsair RAM? I'm pretty sure those are TCCD chips so you won't be applying much voltage to them in any case, it will be more about adjusting the timings when you get there.

If you want to stop and work on your RAM for a while, knock the multi down on the CPU to 8 and starting from 200 Mhz start increasing the FSB on your chip with the memory divider set 1:1. When you hit a bottleneck loosen the timings a tad (so at anywhere from 225-260 depending on your RAM you might have to go to cas 2.5 , 3 , 3 , 8 etc...)

rupbert

07-31-2005, 06:57 AM

Don't know if the following helps with the rev:

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/spd.jpg

What exactly have I learnt though? That the CPU can run stable at this speed?

So is my objective now to get the cpu multi as high as possible?

11 x 220-5 would be better than 10 x 260? But then I have a lower CPU speed?

InSanCen

07-31-2005, 07:11 AM

The Revision of your corsair RAM is on the silver sticker on the front of it.

It'll also say the Model number, and rated speed(s), as well as "Warranty void if removed" in holographic writing in the background.

rupbert

07-31-2005, 07:18 AM

Thanks for the advice InSanCen,

CMX512-3200C2Pro
XMS3202v1.0
400Mhz CL2

rupbert

07-31-2005, 07:34 AM

Taking Ugly in Greys advice I have lowered the CPU multi to 8, reset the memorry divider to 1:1 and began raising the fsb from 200 (currently at 225).

Should the above be done with a manually set memory timing of 2-3-3-6? It's currently on auto (2.5-3-3-8)...

Jamo

07-31-2005, 07:37 AM

i'd just leave it on auto, i believe those are ch6 chips, but am not sure - there doesnt seem to be much info around on v1.0

edit: yep def ch6 chips, should respond well with between 3.3 - 3.5v however active cooling is a must at these volts

Supertim0r

07-31-2005, 07:43 AM

is this Winbond BH-6 or BH-5 ?
or according to the ram list
XMS-PC3200C2 Rev1.0 (2-3-3-6-1T) --chip--> Winbond CH-5

time to put some volt on this ram :D :slapass:

rupbert

07-31-2005, 07:46 AM

Jamo

07-31-2005, 08:00 AM

Anything I shouldn't go past?

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/frequency.jpg

Is the above frequency effectively running at 460Mhz DDR?

Also what is the best thing to use for stability testing, memtest or prime?

Oh, the DFI won't let me set the dram voltage above 3.2v (currently set to 3v)...

you need to move the 5v jumper on the mobo, however there is reports of this killing some ram, i cant really comment much as i havnt had experience with BH/CH chips yet, yes the SS is running 460DDR, you might get better results with a 'burn in' there is info in this in the search function, as a basic guideline i wouldnt go past 3.5v for extended periods

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 08:01 AM

CH5 chips is what I come up with, later revs being TCCD. Leave it on auto where it's at for the moment. Don't be afraid to give that RAM the volts (up to 3.2 ish) to make it go fast. But as always see how far you can get on the voltage settings you have before bumping the voltages. Other folks have had that RAM go high but it is not likely to do too high at 2-3-3-6. Leave it where it's at and squeeze it for speed for now. You can expirement with timings later as always....

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 08:02 AM

Keep the RAM below 3.2 for now, there are many reports of ram deaths by moving that 3.3 volt jumper.... and yeah that is effectively DDR 466

Test with Prime for now

rupbert

07-31-2005, 08:33 AM

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 09:10 AM

Before you do anything, how far have you gotten the CPU, you say your RAM is doing 235. Now we have to figure out the closest combination of RAM/CPU available and see what happens.

rupbert

07-31-2005, 09:12 AM

CPU was prime stable @ 2.6Ghz

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 09:21 AM

Put your CPU back to 2.6, run your RAM at a 9/10 divider for RAM final of 234 and test again. Should all work together :).

rupbert

07-31-2005, 09:57 AM

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/cpuz2607.jpg http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/mem.jpg

Was able to push to 137 to get it past the 2.6 mark!

Will run extensive testing tonight to check for stability. CPU is only 2c higher than default!

EDIT

Can I assume buying new ram that could run at 245-260 would be the way to 2.7/2.8Ghz?

This corsair stuff is due to be sold, is there a guide on XS that gives a good recommendation? Crucial Ballistix, G.Skill etc...

xxxAgentxxx

07-31-2005, 10:18 AM

Okay guys,

Running memtest it brought up around 9 errors when at 240Mhz @ 3v...

I dropped it down to 235 and it seems stable now (spi, memtest, prime)

So, now what? Increase the CPU multi?

P.S I don't want to kill my ram, 3v is enough I think :)

the 3v is likely the reason why you got 9 errors... run it again at 240 @ 3.2v and see if you get any errors, I bet against it. Before cranking the voltage on these bh-5's I had errors (hundreds) @ 2.85v - 215 2-2-2-6, @ 3.4v 233 2-2-2-5 0 errors. bios limits me to boot @ 235, otherwise i'd test it higher.

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 10:21 AM

Congratulations!!!!!!!!! I hope it benches as stable :)

Your memory (the stuff you have now) will probably go faster with more voltage. If you want low voltage memory, stick to TCCD or TCC5 and there is some great information in the extreme bandwidth forum, where the resident experts can be of more assistance than I.

rupbert

07-31-2005, 10:44 AM

Thank you both for the replies,

It's stable on memtest, and spi:

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/spi.jpg

I will try upping the dram voltage to 3.2v tonight!

don_vercetti

07-31-2005, 12:42 PM

even with that Ram you can probably go higher, if you run a divider.

As they say, jack the vdimm up to 3.2v, it's unlikely to hurt, but will net you stability. Then up the htt a bit more, see if you can't hit 245-250 or so.

And i remember seeing some tests, where lowering the LDT had no effects until it got down to about 2x200. So yes, that is the same as an fx-55, get the memory above 200mhz and it will be faster (more bandwidth) although not by much.

And good overclock btw.

rupbert

07-31-2005, 12:51 PM

Thanks Don,

The vdimm is currently at 3.2v, and the system is spi 32m, memtest 10 pass stable @ 237 x 11...

I can boot into windows @ 246 x 11 (2.7Ghz) but it is not memtest stable :(

I realise running a lower divider I could reach 2.7Ghz stable, but I don't want to hurt the memory bandwidth (206Mhz)...

rupbert

07-31-2005, 12:55 PM

And good overclock btw.

You guys did it, I just pressed buttons :p:

rupbert

07-31-2005, 01:49 PM

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/cpuz2640.jpg

Not checked for memtest stability, but it's spi 32m stable.

EDIT

Also lowered the vdimm to 2.9v, as the memory is running at it's rated speed?

Ugly n Grey

07-31-2005, 02:37 PM

Might as well if you are keeping the RAM low or you can also try going to 2.5 3 3 7 to get the stability, that RAM should run 240 no problem....... Frequency matters more than latency in this case the margin is so wide (40Mhz) you'd be better off at 240 2.5 3 3 7/8 than 200 2 3 3 6. You can test memory bandwidth with Sandra Sisoft tools

rupbert

08-01-2005, 03:30 AM

That's a good suggestion, I will loosen the timings to 2.5-3-3-7/8 and run some tests at 240/245Mhz...

Will report back this evening

rupbert

08-01-2005, 12:53 PM

Well I began testing at 246 x 11 (2.7Ghz) @ 2.9v 2.5-3-3-7. Memtest failed on the 7th pass.

I will test the above with 240, I predict as you correctly assumed that it should be stable.

I think if it runs stable at 237 X 11 (2.6Ghz) @ 2.9v 2-3-3-7 I will choose this over a slightly faster cpu but lower memory latency of 2.5-3-3-7...

So after all of this testing, can I assume that it is my memory that is holding me back? And would the move to PC4400 (OCZ/G.Skill) resolve this?

rupbert

08-03-2005, 12:09 PM

Well I am glad to say that the settings I would be happy with are indeed stable:

237 x 11 = 2.6Ghz
9/10 divider
2-3-3-7
2.9v

Idle 29c, full load 38c

:)

http://www.dot-tek.co.uk/memtest10pass.jpg

Ugly n Grey

08-03-2005, 12:57 PM

That's a really nicely balanced OC dude, you can pat yourself on the back, you just built a system as fast as a stock FX-55 and saved a considerable amount of cash. With the low voltage and temps, your case shoudl be easy to keep cool as well.

You could in fact get some better RAM if you wanted, but if you are a gamer, a better upgrade is always video card in terms of bang for the buck.

Again, nicely done. Welcome to the madness.

rupbert

08-03-2005, 01:16 PM

Thank you for the kind comments, it's nice to know that my basic OC is appreciated amongst this sort of company :)

I saved over £300 on the cpu!

I just got a new X800XL, not top spec but seems a very reasonable performer :)

I am getting some new RAM, as the Corsair I am using is the only existing component from my last system. I have been advised to go for OCZ or G.Skill (4800, TCCD).

I am beginning to wonder though if 2 x 1Gb would be better for the future, as games like battlefield 2 are already showing the weakness of 1Gb. I am aware though that it is much harder to push 1Gb sticks...

Oh, and thank you for your help, it was greatly appreciated and I have learned a lot in the last few days. Xtreme Systems is a wealth of knowledge and considerable talent :)

Ugly n Grey

08-03-2005, 01:25 PM

rupbert

08-03-2005, 01:33 PM

2x 1Gb is always a good buy, there's some threads going around in the forums debating this and what brand etc.... For my own desktop I use 2 Gig, but a gig for benchies and such.... performance difference in the real world is minor in speed terms, 2Gig gives you room for more bloatware and gets you ready for dual core lovin...

Are going to OC that card? (HEHEHHEHE)

I may just hold off for a month or two and wait until a highly praised 2 x 1Gb set comes out.

Well I was thinking of adding the GPU into the WC loop, I am only using the CPU waterblock at the moment. Concerned about the ram sinks though, I assume I would have to buy some copper ram heatsinks?

Ugly n Grey

08-03-2005, 01:40 PM

Cooling a GPU is tough on a basic kit, I think I might stick with air and try for mild OC's. RAM sinks help a little, not much in my experience really. Many cards have 10-20% more in them than they are shipped at stock, so it never hurts to try without modding anything. My x700pro give me an extra 20% with no mods whatsoever..... but then I only do it to play, I'm not a gamer

rupbert

08-03-2005, 01:42 PM

Well it looks like I have an excuse not to go out this weekend :)

don_vercetti

08-03-2005, 02:16 PM

yeah oc'ings good for that. X800xl aren't really renowned for being the best clockers, the core normally hits 440-450 without vmods, and memory i can not remember.

Worth having a play with, of course.

surfasb

08-11-2005, 12:21 AM

I'm glad you got your 3700 to where it is. I'm running at 250x11 with 2G of ValueSelect Ram. It loads at 57C max and I upped the voltage to 1.64 to get it Prime stable.

So many people dog the 3700 because it's so much more expensive than the 3200 and 3000 which alot of 3700 haters have. But I like my 1m of cache. Good luck too ya :toast: