who agrees aftermarket performance should be part of legitimate PC services????

[muzwa kai]

im not really sure how the hardcore clockers think about this. i want peoples opinions about the possibilty of the move to aftermarket performance and overclocking businesses. we know its possible, but why does it seem like it will never happen. to me the XS Forums seems to be the home of the major players in the overclocking scene. do people want the PC market to go to the next level? or are people happy the way it is?


mk....

[charlie]

:shrug:
I don't understand??

C

[Vincentvega18]

All i can think your saying from that is do we think overclocking should be more widespread, well yes. More overclockers, more people are pushing the boundries every day = more fun, if this isnt what your saying then im with charlie, sounds like an intel press release :fact:

[muzwa kai]

well, now im kinda confused....ummmm....

im talking about the possibilty for people who want their systems overclocked, but are too afraid to do it themselves. they would have the option to take their system to a computer store and get it done properly.
and who thinks they would be able to pull it off. yes its about getting it all more widespread, but as a legitimate business option aswell. the only thing is there is no place to get taught this stuff except forums like this. and these are the only people who could actually do it.


mk....

[Entity_Razer]

lol, true

I think he's trying to ask if we think overclocking should be considerd legale/ recognized by AMD/INTEL/ any other CPU manufacturer and also partially coverd (like with Redline ram etc)/warrantied?

[muzwa kai]

you got it. the main thing stopping this from happenning is all the dodgy stuff that has to be done to do it properly, so the process is not trusted. (dodgy meaning stuff thats not made readily available). when i say taking it to the next level, im talking about the general population of computer salesman and even a lot of the techies, who dont know bugger all. this IS the marketplace as it exists today.

they control virtually the lot of it. but what would happen if we could have some control, with our stuff we know. and accelerate the marketplace to a level that we see fit for mass consumption.


mk....

[muzwa kai]

i have already posted about this issue at devhardware forums.

for some reason i felt compelled to start spreading this propaganda like some crazy person.....

here is the majority of it: (some posts are left out if bits dont make sense)

by the way, how many people who are involved with the hardware industry, professionally, actually read all these forums looking for better ideas. i think they need to start listening more to what all of the hardcore users and performance freaks require for their system to function better. not the people who think that overclocking will kill their cpu. after all its the addicts who actually buy the high end hardware. if they made it all way easier for us, they would make a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of cash. every piece of hardware with overclocking options, but majorly the focus of cpu clocking and ram even. mobo clocking settings and hardcore cooling. anyone who knows the options available for faster systems, should have these options available from the major companies providing the hardware. not universal stuff, just easier options made available for those who know what they are doing. how many people hate the idea of mobo vmods cause of soldering skills and :banana::banana::banana::banana:. just make the voltage regulators in small sockets, like lan bootroms, and better mosfets and junk like that which is upgradable by choice, and knowlegde. they know none of this stuff is actually taught anywhere, so its up to peple like us to keep the extreme system followers informed of how the products actually perform, not just specs before release, but actual users who have to figure this stuff out ourselves and distribute the knowledge. what if someone is the first to try something and there is no onfo online, which happens. no one from intel or amd or ati or nvidia release the info. its all us users. and their sitting back with every option of tweaking they know, and what they actually make possible to do.

imagine crazy :banana::banana::banana::banana:e like motherboards with upgradable
northbridge chipsets, or video cards with changeable memory chips. think of how crazy it would be if we were in charge of major hardware sites telling the big boys what we actually need to be changed.

anyway im gonna shutup before i get banned....

mk....

all this cause im too stupid to get higher than 1.6v on my prescott 3.2.

sorry if anyone majorly disagrees, but i feel the people spreading all this forum knowledge need to be considered more for production. all the easy as things they could do with their eyes shut, that people want. think of the whole industry built for overclocking. anything better than default settings. the whole market is separated by those who feed the overclocking industry and those who limit it. i wonder how much it comes down to money or what intel or amd could actaully do to improve it. not just by making slower cpu's that clock higher. people dont care about that as much as clocking high end equipment. thats where the juice is. they make a fortune by releasing products of the highest quality, that dont overclock anywhere near the percentage of low end stuff. how is our money well spent. anything that clocks decent they release as top quality stuff, right, so we end up with poorly overclockable high end stuff, that really isnt worth the money we spend. do you really think they will ever release a cpu, say s775 3.8ghz, that will overclock 50% like many low end products do. people could clock there $1000(aussie) 3.8 to 5.7ghz. my $319 3.2 clocks to 3808 max stable with 1.6v. saves me about $600, apart from my watercooling which is good for a long time of cpu or gpu cooling. a new socket waterblock is like $100, for each new cpu. has anyone ever heard of intel or amd making bios options only available for watercooled setups. the whole cooling industry is enormous now, and none of the major hardware players (intel, amd) support the industry that only supports themselves. and noone else. it all need to be syncronised so there are better cpu features usable with better cooling. everyone think of what they could of possibly done to make the products better for this overclocking industry. basically anything that limits better performance. and how many locks and stuff do they have in place. i think its all the head honchos who only care for money and not the actual industry....

anyhoo sorry again, but that was just my major 2 cents beef. if this stuff actually happenned, think of where the whole industry goes. and who is gonna start the first guaranteed overclocking shop. all it has to be is guaranteed. and all those people who study and :banana::banana::banana::banana: wont have a clue whats going on. and there we are guaranteeing overclocked systems, faster and half the price of the normal shops. i mean how many people have had there majorly tweaked out systems without crashing since tweaking like 5 months ago.
how easy is it to clock it half as much, and say half the price and have to fork out for the guaranteed work from their earnings, which would be monumental. who would deny guaranteed overclocks. there would be a disclaimer and a few instructions for maintaining bios settings, and how to clock it down 50mhz if it should crash. whats stopping this from happenning. its all unqualified work. cause where can you get an overclocking certificate from, or f#*k the certificate, go for major overclocking domination - whats the highest qualification from a uni course. and look where all the knowledge lies at the moment. anyone who helps people in forums about stuff they allready know. which is mostly experience.

this is what it comes down to:
YOU CANNOT RUN RAM FASTER THAN DDR333 ON A 533FSB INTEL CPU SYSTEM this is where the knowledge lies.
(official knowledge)

THEN THERE IS US RIGHT.


sorry if i stepped on any toes, or if people strongly disagree, please dont kill my reputation. cause i feel very crazy just talking about this....

i would love to hear what people here actually think of the all that stuff. think about it seriously. we could retire helping people in forums and charge the suckers to do it all for them. how fun would overclocking systems professionally be to do. and we would blow away anyone trying to do legit systems. all it has to be is guaranteed. cpu specs....umm add $60 heatsink + fan and clock it up to default temps. save people $300 on the cpu alone. and imagine if all this happenned and what they would have to do to sell high end stuff when we can match it for half the price....

if anyone thinks im completely crazy, your right!!!!

mk....

EDIT: i am actually in a unique position to be able to try an overclocking business. im unemployed on the disability pension (a little crazy, not retarded) and can earn a certain amount on top of that before i get docked pay. im pretty sure im gonna start a small local home computer business, and have actually thought that when i have built my next system, completely tweaked in any way possible, when i know it all, to start a guaranteed overclocking service for customers who are game. (and who like games). what would people think of this move. agree or disagree. everyone who posts their 3dmark scores obviously know their stuff. please feel free to steal my idea. cause look at where the industry could go. whats the next 2.4c @3600 chip. all the same hardware setup systems with the major overclocking hardware. people would save a fortune. run a few benches and show the difference in performance, from a fully tweaked cheaper system to a stock high end system....
anyway i could very possibly do this if i run the home computing stuff for a bit to suss out the business stuff, (or get i girlfriend to do office stuff for free, hah!) and move into overclocking. think, we could all get payed, for the same info we give people here. it literally is crazy, but i think it could be very possible. and look where people with the same idea come for info. US. but we musnt give it....for free....

im not at all saying im the best at it, there is way more knowledge here than my own. i know that.

i asked a guy at a pc shop if the MSI 875p neo mobo has the ddr433 ratio in the bios, not just 400 to 500. he looked at the back of the box and said, no it only goes up to ddr400.

my purchases are getting to the literal point of the upgrade, when the reason for one product over another comes down to asking the 3 or 4 in the shop aswell as the 2 service guys in the back, whatever specs im after, and getting no answer. so f%#k em. i didnt buy the mobo. their loss right. well mine too.

i have no idea which thread to talk about this stuff in. does anyone actually think there is anyway for people in these forums to have any impact on the overclocking industry, or are we literally stuck with having to do endless tweaks and mods, that are figured out by the few legends that can actually improve the hardware we are given, only spreading the knowledge to those who know what the problem is to look for. beyond that, no one knows hardly anything about it.
i may be preaching to the wrong choir, but im pretty sure most people know where im coming from.
i know it sounds like im bagging the whole industry, but i seriously believe the entire computer industry is the best industry in the world. i also believe the knowledge and understanding of it all is spreading universally. so the whole industry has to keep up with demand. this is where we come in to it. we seriously need input into minor development plans, pretty much for future releases of new hardware. those geniuses who develop the full on concepts and new hardware stuff are all doing better than they could possibly imagine, but its the simple stuff that we need that they dont care about. we just need a release so the ideas are put out there for consideration. i just dont know if its possible though to get enough people involved in the major performance tweaking area to have any impact at all. i dont even know if anyone here thinks im speaking complete crap, or if anyone thinks it could be possible in some way that we can have an impact at all. most people dont give a :banana::banana::banana::banana:e, but all the hardware releases need to advance as much as our knowledge of it all, which to me seems to be growing very quickly.

WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO PEOPLE, IS WE ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT COULD POSSIBLY UTILISE THE NEW FEATURES WE REQUIRE. NO ONE ELSE CARES BUT US. SO WHO ELSE IS GOING TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT???? NO ONE AT ALL. IT IS UP TO US TO MAKE THE DIFFERENCES THAT WE REQUIRE. NO ONE ELSE KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT THE STUFF WE NEED, OR WHAT WE WANT. ONLY US. SO HOW COULD WE POSSIBLY ADVANCE THE INDUSTRY TO THE EXTENT OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, WHICH ON THE MOST PART BEYOND ANY RELEASE. SOLDERING POTS IS GETTING A LITTLE BARBARIC.

------please give us mosfets in one spot so we can put one cooler on all of them. or a waterblock------

maybe 7mm heatsinks are ample for melting hardware????

what would happen if the xbox 360 price is too high, and people start realising that all the power it holds is equal to a low end pc that has to support 800x600 resolution games with 4x antialiasing. pretty high poligon capabilities though. not really sure exactly how the xbox 360 will perform, but how could we make a cheap pc, with good overclocking hardware perform as well, which is majorly tweakable, (not to mention upgradable). is tv-out with a small 15" monitor for loading, really that confusing. plus you have winamp supplying your stereo with 7.1 dolby music.

ooh. now gamers universally have to figure out how to use a harddrive (in the xb0x 36o). are they capable, or will the data copying process be locked in an unreachable bios, so people dont get confused.
it could all be a game for the pc industry, cause they know the move to the xbox 360 is bringing the world closer to computers. and look who designed the xbox360. IBM did the CPU, ATI did the graphics. i would love to see the marketing strategy behind the xbox 360, minor offshoots of development for consoles, using already outdated computer technology.
3 core cpu @ 3.2 ghz each (sounds filth) could possibly be anywhere near the performance of even a celeron, maybe not that bad.

it seems to be unused pc technology that didnt rate so they give the :banana::banana::banana::banana:e to the consoles.
then there is us. we are the core of the best possible gaming anywhere in the world.

and look at their technology used for consoles. tv's go to 800x600 right. xbox360 can do HD for plasmas and LCD's. how will that effect peformance of games.
and look how they keep people happy. most tvs will only do 800x600, so they add 4xAA. and that was pretty much the major improvements in cinematics. keep an eye out for the polygon count like i said, i think there will be majorly improved level design capabililities, and that seemed to be the best feature.

so what system would we have to build to blow it away. get more console users to computers with tv-out. and how would ATI and IBM react to that sort of action. it brings the people back to their main industry. and look where it leaves us. flocks of people looking to get a computer eventually, only having console experience. wanting the hardcore gaming systems (well what they think is hardcore) and who is best to provide these cheaper, tweaked out systems. US!!!! and imagine the hardware overclocking support released for us to supply the demand. they would be overun with the demand for cheap systems with high gaming performance. it all seems way too easy.


mk....

EDIT: how are consoles more simple than pc's. we set them up with simple guides for any thing we think is necessary. apart from that, they already know how to install games on harddrives, (those with harddrives). turn the pc on, and there is the desktop, full of single click shortcuts to however many games there hardrive fits. and how are ps2 games and similar, generally more expensive than most major new pc games.
i dont understand!!!!


muzwa kai....

[Vincentvega18]

Ok, i see your point now. That was a lot of reading..........thanks :D
Anyway im not sure about this overclocking for people who cant, i mean i do it for my friends pc's etc but i do it for fun and coz itll give them better performance, i dont think o/c should be done for money. Even sponsorship deals i dont agree with, i mean if some companies want to give away their hardware to people who can give it a good run thats ok, but not cash. Im sure a lot of people feel differently but this is exactly how i feel about games as well, professional gamers is just a joke. Anyway, thats taking it completely off topic but i mean i guess some people would prefer it.....

[Highland3r]

There's a number of problems with offering a paid overclocking service.
Firstly its the gaurentee (*sp) that the system will remain stable in 5 years time, when the case is full of crud and all the fans are blocked up. If the system were to crash, then important documents/data might be lost. This may not be to do with the overclock, but chances are it'll be blamed upon it.
Secondly, for the average joe who actually buys a pc from pcworld or "uncle bens super computer shop" round the corner knows jack all about the inside of a pc. If they did they'd have built one themself. This same type of person, really isnt going to notice the difference between 3 and say 3.4ghz. Or 3,4,4,11 and 2,2,2,5. For them its wasted money, + overclocking will void the warranty they have, and chances are the kit inside is running at max capacity as it is.
Pre-overclocked pc's would be a viable solution, they can be extensively tested, and would be built to be overclocked. Using decent componenents and good cooling. Again though many people are scared by overclocking so might be somewhat put off by buying a pre-overclocked pc.

As for the comment "the more people overclocking the better" (or words to that effect) to a certain extent thats true, we'd get more of the kit we wanted, and a better price, however that would also lead to a MUCH larger number of people jumping on the overclocking bandwagon. Wondering why their system wont overclock as far as Fuggers, or why their new 700 quid graphics card isnt number 1 on the ORB.
Have noticed this effect already to a certain extent here, and more so elsewhere.
Overclocking is a mystical thing, its easy to overclock, its much harder to be good at it. Its also something that you can't learn overnight.

Bah, have rambled on enough now... so I'll stfu :P

[muzwa kai]

i see the points you's are making. it would be dodge to try to overclock peoples pc's that they already have. cause of there hardware choices or simply what was chosen for them. it would really need to all be done by us, from scratch. could be a standard line of systems. meaning every setup we sell could all be exactly the same, with tested and proven reliability and performance. that would make it all very easy. there could be 3 setups we sell. budget, medium quality and high end systems that cannot be equaled by any hardware at default speeds.

also with charging people, the cost could be nearly as much as the better hardware.


mk....

[zabomb4163]

it would also force companies like intel to make overclocking impossible because it would cut into revenue WAY too much and the RMAs would go crazy. legitimate returns to newegg would now require a lot of paperwork ect...

[muzwa kai]

i thought extreme overclocking was way more widespread than it really is.
no one cares about it at all. this will never happen. ive lost my faith in this being able to be done at all.
im just going to go back to my method of looking for info online that doesnt exist. and being happy with the fact that no one has ever done the things i need to know about. and getting as much out of my hardware as they allow.

ill just set my system back to default settings and play unreal tournament at 640x480.
i might upgrade in ten years when i can no longer load internet explorer.

sorry to waste everyones time with this idea.

im going back underground.

mk....

[Ugly n Grey]

There are companies that sell OC'd ready to ship product. No one has stopped them yet. No one is going to. OC freaks may be a small piece of the pie, but we are a piece and we count. Neither company wants to eb the first to shut us out. Besides, it's only tech, there is always a way to OC, always some trick. I knew this was true from the moment I boosted my first 286 by 4Mhz.....

As to your original question, you can pay people to OC for you, but it's not a widespread practice.....best Buy isn't going to offer a service no one uses, but some of the guys here might.

[Vincentvega18]

Yes, some pc-makers do sell pre-oc'ed hardware, but i can pretty much guarantee you they dont xtreme o/c it, itll be something like an amd 4000+ @2.5ghz etc, we all know itll do a lot more just as stable but they want to be safe, i mean your selling pre-overclocked hardware, try rmaing something to a company that knows your doing this when a customer breaks it........ironic thing is they probably charge more than you buying all the higher clocked hardware yourself. interesting concept but just too risky for more companies. :fact:

[fatfreepork]

who is forgetting bfg?

[mcnbns]

Why the hell would you want overclocking mainstream and easy to do? It's the elitism, skill, and the thrill of the hunt, baby!

Volt modding, fearing losing every bit of your money invested in hardware, raising the voltage that one 0.05V more to get the record....

We all know that overclocking would commence sucking ballsack as soon as Joe Sixpack can do it as well as we can.

The name of the following url accurately describes how I feel about myself and the XS community compared to average Dell users:
www.elitebastards.com

'Nuff said. WORD!