Best 23"/24"+ 1920x1200 LCD?

[krille]

Hey!

I've decided to buy a new LCD for my computer, and I want to go with a widescreen 1920x1200 native resolution LCD (widescreen seems cool and might be more future proof too?). It will be used primarily for gaming, but also watching movies (via the computer) and normal desktop usage and some work of course. Price tag should be around $2000 (not cut in rock).

The Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW has caught my eyes. It seems to be a very capable LCD, very popular, however it's kind of cheap, which makes me question its quality (how can the best be the cheapest - makes no sense to me)? So basically, I was wondering if there's any better LCD out there with a minimum of 1920x1200 resolution, minimum 23" screen size and for around ~$2000 (specs are not rock solid) (if there is no better than the Dell I will get that). Also, I'd like a "minimum" of <16ms (since I like FPS games - please, don't suggest any CRTs they hurt my eyes), however I'd prefer lower response times of course, if possible without losing too much image quality (I do want an 8-bit display, not 6-bit fake).

Also, is there anything else I should think about/know/consider/be aware of/etc. before purchasing such an LCD (ie widescreen with 1920x1200)?

Thank you very much!

[Turok]

Im thinking about buying the Dell 2405FPW. If I get it, ill post about it in my "Best Gaming LCDs ≥ 19" thread found here
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66191&page=2&pp=25

The Dell 2405FPW uses the same LG tech that the Apple 23" Cinema HD has. I saw the 23" Cinema HD in persion in a Apple store and it looks amazing.

Today (June 02, 2005), these are the prices:
Apple 23" Cinema HD (23" Viewable) = $1300 (w/Student discount)
Dell 2405FPW (24" Viewable) = $960 (w/Limited 20% discount offer)

If you are looking for the best, this is the best I found:
"SPECTRE 23 SV-Naga 23" LCD (http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_x23sv_naga.htm)"

Specs look amazing, but its hard to find and I didnt see any reviews about it.
The few stores that have it sell it for about $1600. For me, that looks expensive.

[krille]

The specs sure look amazing. If they're anywhere near the truth, it might very well be better than the Dell. However, it gives me certain doubts that I can't find squat when googling it (no reviews at all). If this LCD was that good, the praise and glory should be flooding. Hmm...

But are you yourself going for the Dell? I heard some other guys in another forum say that it can't play 1080p? Why is this? Moreover they said I should consider a 1080p HDTV instead? Are HDTVs better and how does computers and games think of the 1080p resolution?

Thanks!

[lutjens]

I like my BenQ FP231Ws...they work very well and look good.

Didn't cost an arm and a leg either...:)

[krille]

Faster than any other LCD in this category - 16ms response
Enjoy a super fast refresh rate. FP231W is quite simply the best in its league. Nothing comes close. For pros where performance means everything, the 16ms response time makes images glide effortlessly into one another.To be honest I looked up what was listed in pricerunner, of more than 20 1920x1200 LCDs only two had 25ms, rest had 16ms. Big LOL.

Anyway, is this LCD better than the Dell 2405FPW? Better or not, glad to here you like your BenQ. :)

edit: Woah!!! nice rig there! and 2x23" widescreens... how does that fit? :D

About the Dell, I found one worrying thing:

mage Max H-View Angle: ±89°
image Max V-View Angle: ±89°

Does the ± mean the effective angle is 178° (89 degrees to each side), or does it mean that it's just 44.5° to each side from the middle (which IMO is very little).

Thanks!

[lutjens]

Anyway, is this LCD better than the Dell 2405FPW? Better or not, glad to here you like your BenQ.

I can't really say it's better, simply due to the fact that I've never used the Dell. But I'd expect it to be comparable at the least. When I went shopping for these monitors, I went with the BenQ due to the 16ms rating (where most had 25 ms). I went from CRT to the LCDs and was concerned about ghosting. I can say that ghosting has never been an issue with these monitors.:)


edit: Woah!!! nice rig there! and 2x23" widescreens... how does that fit?

This rig is destined to be replaced very shortly...I've been running the CPU and the motherboard for well over a year (CPU since Feb 2004). I plan on replacing the motherboard, CPU, power supply, memory and video card in the very near future.:)

The dual screens are very nice, especially when you are gaming and need a quick and easy reference for the cheat codes...:D

Half-life 2 is awesome with oddball resolutions and dual monitors. If I reconfigure to have resolution of 3840x1200, the game adapts to it and will actually run decently (I need to turn down some eye candy though;). It looks stunning at that resolution, although the split in the screens is a little distracting at first(although you do get used to it quickly). What is really nice is gaming while watching a DVD. I tried watching some Xvid while gaming, and although it worked, it was very choppy.

Which should be solved by the upgrade...;)

[JasonE4]

I'm pretty sure that ±89° means an effective 178°. I really doubt that these monitors would be so popular if it was an effective 89°, too.

[krille]

lutjens >
Nice to hear! Guess you are going for a dual-core then? Me too actually, I've preordered a 4400+ which never seems to show up though. Must be awesome dual-screen gaming, although, does the crosshair get split in half between the screens? I mean, aiming, anyone? :D


especially when you are gaming and need a quick and easy reference for the cheat codes...:D:bounces:

if you today, had to choose between a new Dell and a new BenQ, which one would you go for? so far everyone's spoken so well of the Dell, but none's even mentioned the BenQ, but in general BenQ screens seem to be great for gaming (Dell's too btw). so, what's your opinion?

Moreover, the dell too has 16ms, so I guess no ghosting will be experienced on that one either? Even read of some crazy 8ms specs for the Dell in AnandTech forums. Don't know if it's based on anything substantial, though.


I'm pretty sure that ±89° means an effective 178°. I really doubt that these monitors would be so popular if it was an effective 89°, too.Sure hope so, because some guy at another forum (widescreengamingforum.com) chose some Phillips screen over the Dell due to Dell's lousy viewing angle. He had never seen the Dell though, only somewhere learned the viewing angle was 89 degrees effective, he might have been wrong though. Not really sure. With all the Dell's supporters, it must be a good (better) display. Wacked viewing angle's should have upset this. Anyone with the actual Dell who could help me out on this one (how is the viewing angle)?

Thanks! :)

[Vapor]

Viewing angle is a complete 180 degrees, minus what the border blocks (so 176-178 or so). Not too sure about vertical viewing angle though, never tried.

I love my 2405fpw, but in my opinion the HP L2335 has the better panel. I didn't get it because it did cost a significant amount more than the Dell at the time of purchase.

[lutjens]

Nice to hear! Guess you are going for a dual-core then? Me too actually, I've preordered a 4400+ which never seems to show up though.

Yeah, I will be going dual core...in a rather big way. I will probably be going with a dual Opteron 275 with 2xBFG 7800 GTX. It's overkill for what I need it for, but it seems to be the best choice for my SCSI drives. I considered the X2, but the Athlon X2 motherboards still use the old useless 32bit, 33 MHz bus and the only way around it is to use SATA. Plus, the Opterons have NUMA support which will be nice. The only real issue I have right now is the video cards. Take the GTX now, or wait for the Ultra?? Decisions, decisions...;)



Must be awesome dual-screen gaming, although, does the crosshair get split in half between the screens? I mean, aiming, anyone?

Yes, the crosshair is right in the middle. You can see it split between the screens. Kind of a pain, but the awesome resolution more than makes up for it (at least IMHO). One thing with dual screen gaming...you have to sit back quite a ways (or else you're constantly panning your vision across both screens).


if you today, had to choose between a new Dell and a new BenQ, which one would you go for? so far everyone's spoken so well of the Dell, but none's even mentioned the BenQ, but in general BenQ screens seem to be great for gaming (Dell's too btw). so, what's your opinion?

Dunno...I'd probably go for the cheaper of the two, or for the one with the least restrictive pixel warranty.

My $0.02...;)

[Necromonger]

lutjens, do you run your 2xBenQ FP231W 23" widescreen LCDs in analog D-Sub or in DVI, because I thought that DVI only supports a max resolution of 1600x1200.

[lutjens]

I run them both in DVI. I thought DVI had a max resolution of 2048x1536... :confused:

[Necromonger]

lutjens, well I learned somthing today @ xtreme system, I always thought the max was 1600x1200. Thanks.

[Turok]

Viewing angle is a complete 180 degrees, minus what the border blocks (so 176-178 or so). Not too sure about vertical viewing angle though, never tried.

I love my 2405fpw, but in my opinion the HP L2335 has the better panel. I didn't get it because it did cost a significant amount more than the Dell at the time of purchase.

Hey Vapor, could you post some pics on your 2405 FPW here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66191&page=2&pp=25)?
What tech does the HP L2335 use?
How old is this LCD model?
What does it have that is better than the 2405FPW?
Do you see ghosting in games, any dead pixels, any problems with the 2405FPW?

[Turok]

Look at this CNET search
Here you have some nice > 22" LCDs rounded up
Click here (http://reviews.cnet.com/4502-3174_7-0.html?tag=pick&orderby=-7eRating&qt=&100021id=&1000036id=&500152id=&500259id=&500315id=&500373id=&500603id=&501104id=&500166id=&500161id=&500146id=&500160id=&500149id=&502318id=&500031id=&502336id=&500022id=&502337id=&500324id=&500140id=11411794)

Dell looks like the one with the highest rating and the best price.
Looks a bit too good to be true, thats why I ask if the 2405FPW is as good as they say

[krille]

lutjens > :slobber:

Perhaps you should buy one 7800GTX now, sell it when R520/G80/7800U comes and then X-Fire/SLI the better pair of those? That's how I'm going to do, at least (if the upgrade in the end will be worth it, of course).

Turok > Yeah, that's my concern too! But looking at what everyone says (everywhere I've looked, everyone but some very few have praised the Dell, and those who hate it haven't even seen it IRL/in action). So what do think, should we go for it?

Btw, thanks for the Cnet LCD Shootout, interesting and yes, the Dell won it ofc.


Vapor > Interesting, could you tell me some more about this HP L2335? Why is it better? What better panel has it, why is the very panel better? etc? I'd love to hear some critical thoughts of the Dell as well. Thanks!

[lutjens]

Perhaps you should buy one 7800GTX now, sell it when R520/G80/7800U comes and then X-Fire/SLI the better pair of those? That's how I'm going to do, at least (if the upgrade in the end will be worth it, of course).

I could, but I'm still trying to figure out the specs of the Ultra...and the ETA. I've yet to hear any sort of consensus on the rumors... :(

I suppose I could just buy two of the BFGs and sell when the Ultra arrives...something tells me that the Ultra won't arrive at the GTX's price point or drive the price the GTX down significantly. It'll probably establish its own...somewhere about $1000. :rolleyes:

And, with the SLI bridge to the K8W-E seemingly missing in action until you call Tyan and wait a month, who knows...one GTX might be the solution.

[krille]

I think the Ultra will end up around $700 to compete with R520, which ATI's said will end up around that price point. Probably will drive the price of the GTX down a bit, but as you say probably not that much. If you can afford the potential hit on two (2) GTXs, I'd say go for it! ;)

Sorry to hear about the SLI bridge.

[Turok]

I think the Ultra will end up around $700 to compete with R520, which ATI's said will end up around that price point. Probably will drive the price of the GTX down a bit, but as you say probably not that much. If you can afford the potential hit on two (2) GTXs, I'd say go for it! ;)

Sorry to hear about the SLI bridge.

Why are ATI and nVidia raising prices so much for newer cards?
The high send cards have been ~$400, afther that $500 was the high end, then it became $550, now the 7800gtx is for $600 and the r520 and 7800 Ultra will be $700 afther that.

How can people aford this. If they keep it up, people wont update too ofthen and they will be forced to lower their prices. They also may end up lowering production on these cards because no one buys them or they will release another model to cheapen production.

[krille]

Or they simply won't by the baddest models, and perhaps get a lower bin which still outperforms the last-gen flagships. ;)

Why? Well, ask them. I'd say it's because people are willing to pay more and more for the best. PC Graphics are getting more and more life like, so perhaps the abolute quality (not just relative to last-gen) also affect your willingness to pay? There's quite a difference between Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3 and Quake 4 if you ask me.

[dnavarro]

Guys, the Dell 2405FPW is far and away better than the HP or the Apple. I know because I have had them all. Also, the DELL does not use the LG panel, it uses the new samsung 24" panel (this was confirmed at the Samsung website and pointed out at the HardOCP forums, the link escapes me at the moment). I actually sold my Samsung 240T (which is a great panel also just slower reponse) to get the Dell (which I got for 800 bucks when they had a crazy coupon in March). The Dell also is better than that other one you guys showed previously (the one nobody can find info about). It has a 500 cd brightness (the other was 400) and a 1000:1 contrast ratio (the other was a 800:1). And I tell you the difference was night and day when I first got mine. I noticed no screendoor effect whatsosver, extremely even blacks, awesome contrast. This was in comparison to my Samsung which was already an awesome monitor. Previously my Samsung 240T replaced the HP/Apple.

Trust me, you can't go wrong with the Dell. Just because the price is cheap doesn't mean it is not worth getting. The others (HP/Apple etc.) are just rip offs.

D

[Turok]

Guys, the Dell 2405FPW is far and away better than the HP or the Apple. I know because I have had them all. Also, the DELL does not use the LG panel, it uses the new samsung 24" panel (this was confirmed at the Samsung website and pointed out at the HardOCP forums, the link escapes me at the moment). I actually sold my Samsung 240T (which is a great panel also just slower reponse) to get the Dell (which I got for 800 bucks when they had a crazy coupon in March). The Dell also is better than that other one you guys showed previously (the one nobody can find info about). It has a 500 cd brightness (the other was 400) and a 1000:1 contrast ratio (the other was a 800:1). And I tell you the difference was night and day when I first got mine. I noticed no screendoor effect whatsosver, extremely even blacks, awesome contrast. This was in comparison to my Samsung which was already an awesome monitor. Previously my Samsung 240T replaced the HP/Apple.

Trust me, you can't go wrong with the Dell. Just because the price is cheap doesn't mean it is not worth getting. The others (HP/Apple etc.) are just rip offs.

D

Nice nice :up:
Now I know its the best :fact:

Could you show us some pics, so I can see how it would look like on my desk? :D

BTW, its kinda hard for me to get that kind of money right now. They have repeated the 20% discount 2 times in a row now, and it ends today (Dont know if they are going to repeat it again). When would I expect another offer like that? Where can I get coupons and stuff? At what time of the year does it get the cheapest?

Turok

[JasonE4]

It'll only get cheaper and cheaper. I heard someone say that their quarter ends at the end of the month and that there'll be some pretty good sales around then.

[Danne980]

I just ordered this: SyncMaster™ 242MP-Silver
Thaught it is the same display as the Dell but with speakers and tuners. If i am wrong please tell me quick so that i can stop the deal.

Otherwise it looks nice.

[Turok]

I just ordered this: SyncMaster™ 242MP-Silver
Thaught it is the same display as the Dell but with speakers and tuners. If i am wrong please tell me quick so that i can stop the deal.

Otherwise it looks nice.

How much are you paying for it? It looks expensive and I dont think its worth it. The thing is a HDTV 24" Wide screen at around $1700.

If you are planning on getting a TV, then in that case I may recommend a CRT TV since you are going to be looking at it from long distances, but for monitor use that looks like a rip-off

[Danne980]

Its not much more then a Dell 2405 fpw about 15%. And it will be used as a monitor mainly (i think its worth it when i dont have to wait 1 month just to get it, and the tv tuner, remote and speaker are neat). The lcd tv´s arent good for that high resolution (1280*768).

Just i wish its the same panel as the dell because i have read so much good about it and i dont want to get a monitor that cant handle games good.