black viper regestry patch

[pancake]

anyone know were to get it... site is under construction :slapass:

[EnJoY]

Feeling stupid because I used to know this, but what does this do again?

[mcnbns]

I believe it is some sort of a Super Pi tweaking thingy (not sure if it's only for Win 2000 or all Windows versions).

[Hombre]

It disables the services you don't need in Windows.
I have it, for WinXPPro. "Gaming" configuration.
I'll upload it to my server if you wish.

[EnJoY]

Like what services? Things that already can be disabled in msconfig or hidden ones or what?

[gclg2000]

do tell

[illidan]

There u go.

[jayjaya29]

Hmm I'm interested as well.

[Qkjhfhaiguihfma]

i believe these are services you can disable, under admin tools, services.

[pancake]

thanks illidan :toast:

[illidan]

u welcome

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:D Sounds interesting - can I use it for my OS? I use WIN XP corporate edition SP2.

And what does it exactly do? Don't want to download it and distroy somethin'............ :stick:

Someone with more informations about ??? :confused:

:toast:

[jumanji969]

It disables unneeded services such as messenger and such. Blackviper created registry patches for windows xp and windows 2k.

If you want to manually disable services goto:

start > run > services.msc

[Hombre]

Yeah, you can manually disable and stop every service through services.msc, the patch just do it in 2-clicks.

[isp]

There u go.
That's nice, but do you have the registry patch?

[LFATB]

run :: services.msc there are so many things you can lose in there

[CrimeDog]

he knows, he's looking for a batch file that'll disable all those recommended services i think :)

[afireinside]

So this does all the tweaks for you? Thats my kinda tweak :D

[pancake]

pretty much.. saves you doing it manually.. but cant find the actual patch anywere :slapass:

[Apocalipsis]

Better to create a new hardware profile to do that kind of tweaks, in case something go wrong you can always boot with your default profile.

[The Mofo]

http://www.tweakguides.com/

Try that out :)

[NiCKE^]

Do anyone got the patch?

[onemorekornkid]

You guys have no idea how many times I've gone throuh the services, an automatic tweak would be a life saver.

[isp]

Is BV's site down?

I remember he did have one quick registry patch up for DL, but I think it was gamer or something. Not the most tweaked/stripped down it can be.
:off:
BTW. Does anyone know if it's possible to do diagnostic reboot with win2k like for XP? If not is there atleast a 2k patch to kill all those unneeded services? Damn I don't wanna go through and do it one by one...:(

[cadaveca]

go to run, type: "services.msc"

from there you can manually disable/enable services, etc, and it gives a nifty explanation too.

[mcnbns]

I don't know about you guys, but I actually find it fun to go through all the services and disable them. :D Just double-clicking a reg patch takes the fun out of it! ;)

[NiCKE^]

Yeah but we're lazy and want a one-click program to fix it for us so we can be even lazier ;)

[isp]

go to run, type: "services.msc"

from there you can manually disable/enable services, etc, and it gives a nifty explanation too.
Yeah I guess I'll have to do that if there aren't any patches or diagnostic reboots. I was hoping for an easy solution hehehe ;)

BTW guys,
I found one of blackviper's patches on an old drive I had around here, so I'll share it...
http://cumrusky.dreyermachine.com/black_viper_super_xp_user.zip

[Touche Turtle]

I remember doing something like this a few years back - going through the services and manually disabling certain ones with the help of a guide. I remember it gave me an exta ~500 points in 3dmark0? (whatever it was at the time).

This weekend I tried again, on my current system, using blackviper's guide. I was hoping to break 6k in 3dmark05 (previous best was ~5950). Guess what? After tweaking my services for around 30mins and re-running 3dm05 the increase was....... Zilch! :D bah!

[nordik]

I'll have to give this a go...

[V4n{}u|sH]

Nice :)

[ante_ante]

Yeah I guess I'll have to do that if there aren't any patches or diagnostic reboots. I was hoping for an easy solution hehehe ;)

BTW guys,
I found one of blackviper's patches on an old drive I had around here, so I'll share it...
http://cumrusky.dreyermachine.com/black_viper_super_xp_user.zip

What exactly does this patch do? Disable services?????

[NiCKE^]

What exactly does this patch do? Disable services?????
Yepp, all unneeded services.

[geeman74]

heres the reg tweak i use :)

[KingYubbo]

So file sharing and LAN still works?

[Nosfer@tu]

Nice. Il give it a Trie

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

that patch is a POS, rendered my system basically useless, windows didnt load properely, network gone, POS!

[Nosfer@tu]

My sys works just fine, Its :banana::banana::banana::banana:ed alittel with my reg file but no biggy.

And i dident se any differens on preformance

[isp]

that patch is a POS, rendered my system basically useless, windows didnt load properely, network gone, POS!
It's for benching not like a 24/7 setup...

[OV3RCLOCK3R]

any 24/7 patches out there?

same as black viper so its one click:)

[Gray Mole]

any 24/7 patches out there?

same as black viper so its one click:)

Better off disabling one by one, mate...

Check after anything you're unsure of so you know what you've done...

If you lose something you need you might not know what or how to get it back...

I'd do a fresh backup first, as well, before you do any of it, just to make sure you don't have to redo eveything, especially on a 24/7 rig...

Gray

[teqguy]

Here's the minimum required services to load Windows(XP Pro) and get online via a broadband connection with a static ip address:

Plug and Play (Automatic)
Remote Procedure Call (RPC) (Automatic, vital for operation and can't be disabled anyway)
DNS Client (Automatic)
Network Connections (Manual)

For a connection with a dynamic IP address you need to keep DHCP Services set to Automatic.

For dialup, you need all of the previously mentioned, DHCP Services, and Telephony set to Automatic.

If you're wondering where your sound went, set Windows Audio to Automatic... as it manages your sound through an additional software layer(thanks a lot Microsoft).

In keeping only the services I mentioned enabled, I've been able to reduce my ram usage to less than 50MB for Windows(this is including Explorer.exe), which definitely gives your applications some room to play around with.


One last note: You need Cryptographic services enabled to install most Microsoft products(namely DirectX and Windows Media Player). I recommend keeping it set to manual. This way, the installation will call it when it needs it, while the rest of the time it's disabled.

[G H Z]

Does anyone know if it's possible to do diagnostic reboot with win2k like for XP? If not is there atleast a 2k patch to kill all those unneeded services? Damn I don't wanna go through and do it one by one...:(

All you have to do is copy msconfig from XP or server 2003 to Win2000.

Here's (http://www.perfectdrivers.com/howto/msconfig.html) a source if you don't have those OS's available

[teqguy]

MSconfig is absolutely the wrong way to go about disabling services.

If you disable services through MSConfig, you essentially wipe them out of existence from the rest of the operating system. This means if you screw something up, it won't be salvagable without a system restore or a third party tool.

However, if you use services.msc(which is available on Win2k and 2k3), Safe Mode can still be used to start the basic services and fix whatever went wrong.

[skuliaxe]

Is BV's site down?

It´s down, but you can use Google Chache to "view" some part of the site:

Put this in google:
"cache:www.blackviper.com" as the search string,

And you will get this:
http://216.239.59.104/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Awww.blackviper.com&lr=lang_en

Not browsable though :(

Here´s the WwinXP SP2 cache page:
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:KbbuCLAv4zEJ:www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.ht+service+configurations+blackviper+si te:blackviper.com&hl=en

[teqguy]

The Elder Geek has a cleaner looking list:

http://www.theeldergeek.com/services_guide.htm


However, if you want the absolute bare minimum running services, refer to the post I made above.

[GregP24]

I found from doing thse tweaks that on older systems(Athlon, Athlon XP, P4 A/B) with 512mb RAM or less, they help a great deal. However, on P4 C's and A64's with 1gb or more or RAM, they make zero difference.

[[XC] 4X4N]

I agree. I have tried benching with minimal services running, the diference is small. I also run windowblinds, which uses some resources. Unloading it and then benching also gives only minor gains.

[isp]

All you have to do is copy msconfig from XP or server 2003 to Win2000.
Here's (http://www.perfectdrivers.com/howto/msconfig.html) a source if you don't have those OS's availableThanks man, that's just the info I needed. :up:
Now for some cold weather for benching...

[teqguy]

I wouldn't exactly say "zero" difference.

The fact of the matter is, very rarely does an average user use more than 512MB of ram. However, when you actually have an application that requires those resources, you appreciate all the ram you can get.


I've attached an application from the Microsoft Resource Pack and a batch file I made to execute it.

What it does is flushes the stack of any application you specify without crashing the application, thus freeing the memory. It works on any application you throw at it, so feel free to add more applications to the batch(I just included the services).


For those who are a bit weary of downloading suspicious files, you can get Empty.exe from the Windows 2003 Resource pack, available here:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=9D467A69-57FF-4AE7-96EE-B18C4790CFFD&displaylang=en

Then just make a batch file that looks like this:
Empty.exe YourProgramName
(single entry per line)

[kev182]

just a warning guys, if you want to disable services manually use "services.msc" not msconfig.....Black Viper said this in big bold letters on his guide

[kristos]

http://users.skynet.be/MesjogemeH/SafeProAllstart.zip (don't remember what this one does)
http://users.skynet.be/MesjogemeH/SuperTProAllstart.zip (disables pretty much everything, also has pagefiledisable tweak and sets everyting to "performance", maybe more)
http://users.skynet.be/MesjogemeH/DefaultProAll.zip (this is a no-brainer :))
http://users.skynet.be/MesjogemeH/GamingProAllstart.zip (for gamers = mildly tweaked)

PS: tweaks are for win xp pro sp1

PPS: use at your own risk!! They may bork your OS

[teqguy]

just a warning guys, if you want to disable services manually use "services.msc" not msconfig.....Black Viper said this in big bold letters on his guide

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=835242#post835242




Kristos, as always, it's advisable to refrain from the use of automatic patches, because every system is different. What works for one system might entirely #&*% up another.

And after that happens, what dependencies does the user have to rely on?

[psy^]

Personally i prefer to do all this stuff manually.
Shame blkviper's site has been down so long, but here's (http://www.theeldergeek.com/services_guide.htm") a guide which is just as good. Just remember to play it safe and use a little common sense when disabling the "risky" services :)

Following that, i managed to get my 24/7 config down to 17 services.
XP x64 boots virtually instantly now :cool:

[bachus_anonym]

It has been so long and you guys still haven't found those patches?
Here you go then :) All three for Windows XP. Have fun!

[kristos]

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=835242#post835242




Kristos, as always, it's advisable to refrain from the use of automatic patches, because every system is different. What works for one system might entirely #&*% up another.

And after that happens, what dependencies does the user have to rely on?uhm, these aren't mine, these are blackvipers patches wich I still had on my computer and since so many were asking for them, I just uploaded them to my webspace...

i figured since this is XS, people would know the risks of using patches or anything else that might bork your system... but I'll add a note in my previous post...

[ZMarre]

Like I said allready a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of times before, nothing easier then using WinLite to strip your Windows install.

I decreased my 600MB installCD to 95MB :D

When I format my HDD, zeven minutes later I'm allready benchin' :toast:

Takes 60MB of ram on the desktop (9 threads) :toast:

[illidan]

Like I said allready a :banana::banana::banana::banana:load of times before, nothing easier then using WinLite to strip your Windows install.

I decreased my 600MB installCD to 95MB :D

When I format my HDD, zeven minutes later I'm allready benchin' :toast:

Takes 60MB of ram on the desktop (9 threads) :toast:
Can u show us a screen capture with Task Manager :)

[[XC] 4X4N]

this is junk :mad:
i had to reinstal windows god damn't...
blackviper my ass :slapass:

Great comment :rofl:
I have had this happen too. I am not a believer in these patches. Dealing with services manually is the only way to go.

[Jort]

used nlite to make a tweaked winxp proff with sp2

now i got this problem
while installing ati drivers "wxp-w2k-catalyst-CCC-8-121-050322a-022141C-english"

Setup can not start installing-engine.
The RPC-server is not available


http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=29596&stc=1

[Illicit Tweakin]

I don't use XP but it sounds like you have the "server", "rpc" and or "Workstation" service disabled. One thing you can't disable is the rpc stuff, it must be on automatic(except rpc locator can be manual). rpc is a key component of windows. Enable it in the administrator tools. As well, as always, look at your log files in Event Viewer.

[MaxxxRacer]

Jort i got issues disabling things with nLite... u have to be careful i went through like 5 disks before i got one that was good...

[RAndomaN]

Does anyone know if it's possible to do diagnostic reboot with win2k like for XP? If not is there atleast a 2k patch to kill all those unneeded services? Damn I don't wanna go through and do it one by one...

By 'diagnostic reboot' you mean safemode ? if so just tap F8 on startup like everyother windows OS

[psy^]

used nlite to make a tweaked winxp proff with sp2

now i got this problem
while installing ati drivers "wxp-w2k-catalyst-CCC-8-121-050322a-022141C-english"


Run services.msc
Scroll down to the Remote Procedure Call (RPC)
Makre sure it's set to start automatically, and is running.

You won't t need to restart.
:toast:

[ZMarre]

Can u show us a screen capture with Task Manager :)

U asked for it :)

Here ya go:

http://users.pandora.be/zmarre/mod/taskmanager.jpg

Although I have to admit this is with explorer killed. Explorer takes 10MB.

Just WinLite install :toast:

[teqguy]

I don't know if anyone is going to be able to beat this:

http://www.myfilestash.com/userfiles/teqguy/XPin4mb.JPG

(no, I didn't cheat, I just used the FlushWindows tool I posted before :D )

Oh... and it doesn't stay like this, Windows bloats itself up about 30 seconds after you run it. However, you can create a batch that's hidden and runs in a continuous loop if neccessary.

[ZMarre]

I don't know if anyone is going to be able to beat this:



Ehm dude... I just did :p: Just look the post above you :D



Oh... and it doesn't stay like this, Windows bloats itself up about 30 seconds after you run it. However, you can create a batch that's hidden and runs in a continuous loop if neccessary.

Lol, mine screenshot is taken after half an hour of windows-use :toast:

//EDIT/ ah ok now I see :D

I was looking at the 105MB on the bottom of the window. Now I noticed the usage in the section itself.

Hmmz, but that is maybe still aaah liettle chieting no? :fact: ;) (heck, system idle proces N/A :poke: :p: )

[teqguy]

Hmmz, but that is maybe still aaah liettle chieting no? :fact: ;) (heck, system idle proces N/A :poke: :p: )

System Idle Process is just above kernel level, so it doesn't need prioritization.

[Dani]

Whitch patch do I need for SuperPi8M and HexusPi etc. etc. :woot:
It comes to my bench hard drive but no 3D :D

I have WinXP Pro Corp with all Windows UpDates
A64 with nF4 DFI

Please, find me the fastest patch :toast:

[teqguy]

Those patches will either disable too much or not enough, because they aren't specific to your system.

So, in order to find a happy medium, you should do it manually using services.msc.

The configuration I use disables everything but 5 services, two of which are required, the other 3 being DNS Client, Windows Audio, and Windows Image Aquisition.

Here's the post I made earlier that outlines the minimum required services to not only boot Windows, but keep it functional:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=835186#post835186

[KoolDrew]

There is no reason to disable services at all. Especially for performance since there are no performance gains...

[teqguy]

There is no reason to disable services at all. Especially for performance since there are no performance gains...

If you do the math, you'll find that you free almost 30MB of ram used by unneccessary services that perform arbitrary functions nobody really needs. Not to mention, it reduces boot times.

If you have between 20 and 30MB of ram going to useless services, guess what? That's 20-30MB ram that you don't have for use somewhere else.

So, just because you didn't notice an improvement in performance from it, doesn't mean it didn't help functionality. Applications appreciate having more available resources, and nothing you could possibly say can dispute that.


Anyone who says differently probably has an antivirus suite like Norton running in the background, sucking up 45MB of ram to do what could be done in 5MB.

[ZMarre]

There is no reason to disable services at all. Especially for performance since there are no performance gains...

Haha, my rig is about ten times faster now. And I don't mean innoticable SuperPI times with that, but pure handling :toast:

[KoolDrew]

If you do the math, you'll find that you free almost 30MB of ram used by unneccessary services that perform arbitrary functions nobody really needs. Not to mention, it reduces boot times.

If you have between 20 and 30MB of ram going to useless services, guess what? That's 20-30MB ram that you don't have for use somewhere else.

So, just because you didn't notice an improvement in performance from it, doesn't mean it didn't help functionality. Applications appreciate having more available resources, and nothing you could possibly say can dispute that.

Anyone who says differently probably has an antivirus suite like Norton running in the background, sucking up 45MB of ram to do what could be done in 5MB.

Ok. The only thing you may benefit from is decreased boot times, but with enough RAM which all of you probably have there is no benefit. If the memory is needed for something else the memory used by that particular service will be next to nothing or none at all.

The point is that the NT kernel doesn't give scarce resources to things that don't request it. For example an ODBC service might take up lots of CPU and RAM and I/O on a busy transaction server, but if somehow it is enabled on your home PC it will remain idle and fully paged out. If the service is non-idle then you definitely don't want to disable it.

Also you can't even reclaim the amount of memory that the non-pageable ones take as it is part of the non-paged pool, and that's reserved for the kernel anyway. Stopping the services gives you no more memory for applications and no reduction in the OS's overheads.

Anyone who says differently probably has no idea how Windows manages memory at all. If the service is not in use it won't use any recources anyway and if it is in use you definitely don't want to disable it.


Haha, my rig is about ten times faster now. And I don't mean innoticable SuperPI times with that, but pure handling

It's called the placebo effect. There are no real world performance gains and I am glad Black vipers site is down as all he has done is convince people disabling services actually helps performance.

[ZMarre]

It's called the placebo effect. There are no real world performance gains and I am glad Black vipers site is down as all he has done is convince people disabling services actually helps performance.

Errr dude what do you think I am? A ten-year old boy?

If I tell you that I have a clean windowsinstall and a clean winlite install, and the winlite is much faster then the normal one, then it is like that ok? I did it, you didn't. So no point of wanting to be the I-know-it-better-then-you guy. ('betweter' in dutch, dunno how to say it correctly in english)

Remember, none of this is about RAM-usage. It is about disabled stuff. Heck, you can even feel the difference if you simply turn off all Themes, transluency, fading menus etc.

Damn, if I want to go to desktop properties (rightmouse click on desktop) I can't even follow with my mouse. And I'm clan-gamer ET, so my aim is quite good ;)

Everything just draws waaay faster. Period.

[KoolDrew]

You can disable themes within the display properties. So again disabling the service does not help at all.

[teqguy]

Ok. The only thing you may benefit from is decreased boot times, but with enough RAM which all of you probably have there is no benefit. If the memory is needed for something else the memory used by that particular service will be next to nothing or none at all.

The point is that the NT kernel doesn't give scarce resources to things that don't request it. For example an ODBC service might take up lots of CPU and RAM and I/O on a busy transaction server, but if somehow it is enabled on your home PC it will remain idle and fully paged out. If the service is non-idle then you definitely don't want to disable it.

Also you can't even reclaim the amount of memory that the non-pageable ones take as it is part of the non-paged pool, and that's reserved for the kernel anyway. Stopping the services gives you no more memory for applications and no reduction in the OS's overheads.

Anyone who says differently probably has no idea how Windows manages memory at all. If the service is not in use it won't use any recources anyway and if it is in use you definitely don't want to disable it.

You have absolutely no concept of how the Windows operating system functions.

Windows is divided into operating layers, as this chart shows:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Windows_2000_architecture.PNG


As you can see, the services are an integral subsystem of the Executive layer, found on the User mode layer.

While the Win32 enviornment and its subsystems POSIX and OS/2 are also a subsystem of the Executive layer and are found on the User mode layer, the applications run on a layer BELOW this, as the application branches from the enviornment subsystems show.

Each layer has a different prioritization, with the highest priority being the kernel. As far as memory management is concerned, it's entirely determined by prioritization. Since the services are of higher priority than the applications, there is never an instance where a service will reduce its footprint just to meet the requirements of X application.

Futhermore, SERVICES DON'T HAVE MEMORY MANAGEMENT WHATSOEVER!

Services are given a set minimum footprint that they rapidly expand far beyond, and once they expand to that, they don't shrink in usage.

You say that services that aren't in use don't use memory?

The easiest way to prove this is to set your theme to Windows classic and enable the Themes service.

Guess what?

The themes service, when unused, has a footprint of 200-500KB.

[ZMarre]

nice story + pic

Lol, that's exactly what I'm studying ATM for my exams within two weeks :toast:

Anyway, for the individuals that don't believe me on my word:
after my exams I will post some benchmark scores: one with standard WinXP install, one with same install with standard tweaks (themes off, process killed etc) and one with my WinLite install.

Stay tuned :toast:

[KoolDrew]

teqguy, instead of me arguing with you I went and asked someone who happens to be a kernal/driver developer anbd this is what he had to say.


Well, I don't know where he got his diagram or his ideas... but he has several problems. His diagram is wrong in a few important details, too. It looks like an attempt to present the same info that's in our standard architecture diagram, but modified to avoid copyright issues... unfortunately not completely accurate. For example, while the "security subsystem" (by which I guess he means the lsass.exe process) is indeed 'integral" to the system, the workstation and server "subsystems' are not - they are just win32 services, part of svchost, and you can stop them if you want to.

> As you can see, the services are an integral subsystem of the Executive layer, found on the User
> mode layer.

This comes from a confusion in terminology. Alas MS has in many cases used the same word for several different things. "Services" is one example.

The "executive services" are not the "service processes" we are talking about stopping. "Executive services" are simply APIs exposed by the exec for call from other components, and in particular for call from user mode. They do not have processes associated with them and cannot be stopped - they aren't "running" in the sense that a process or a thread runs. Threads just call them when they want to, and they execute in the context of the calling thread like any other function or procedure.

Nor are they "found on the user mode layer," they are in kernel address space (though they are mostly pageable - their code is part of the system working set).

The services we are talking about stopping are, by contrast, processes running in user mode. They are peers to application processes.

> While the Win32 enviornment and its subsystems POSIX and OS/2 are also a subsystem of the
> Executive layer and are found on the User mode layer, the applications run on a layer BELOW this,
> as the application branches from the enviornment subsystems show.

The arrows on the diagram may show that but it isn't reality. First off the OS/2 subsystem hasn't been around since Win2K, and you only get Posix if you download "Windows services for Unix" from MS. But anyway... although a Win32 application process (or service process) does depend on the Win32 subsystem process (csrss) for a few things, for almost all OS API calls, it interacts directly with the executive. An app or service process is a peer in terms of thread scheduling and memory management to the Win32 subsystem process.

> Each layer has a different prioritization, with the highest priority being the kernel. As far as memory management is
> concerned, it's entirely determined by prioritization.

Nonsense. There is no such concept as "memory prioritization," and the layers do not imply priorities. "Priority" in Windows applies to threads and processes, and is important for scheduling; the pager and working set manager take no notice of it. And some service processes run at LOWER priorities than some apps. Not that that matters for memory allocation.

What DOES matter for memory allocation is a process's page fault rate. If you're incurring a high fault rate your working set upper limit may be expanded, so you can hold more pages of RAM at one time, so as to reduce the fault rate. If you're incurring a very low fault rate, and the overall fault rate is high or the system is short on free RAM, your working set upper limit may be reduced, so as to free RAM for other processes to use.

And guess what... this even applies to the pageable code and data in kernel mode. A high fault rate of a process -- even a low-priority process! -- may cause the memory manager to shrink the operating system's working set, causing file cache and pageable k-mode code and data to be pushed out of RAM in favor of the process.

> Incidently there is
> never an instance where a service will reduce its footprint just to meet the requirements of X application.
> Futhermore, SERVICES DON'T HAVE MEMORY MANAGEMENT WHATSOEVER!
> Services are given a set minimum footprint that they rapidly expand far beyond, and once they expand to that, they don't
> shrink in usage.

So I guess when my svchost's are taking a collective 40 MB or so, and then I run a big "hog" of an app and I see the svchost's have been cut down to 20 MB, I'm just hallucinating. Too many drugs, I guess.

> The themes service, when unused, has a footprint of 200-500KB

Oh gosh, half a megabyte. I wonder if I can stand it? Yes, this 200-500KB is the minimum working set size of ANY process, service or otherwise.

This guy, whoever he is, needs to attend one of our "Windows Internals" seminars. Where'd you run into him, anyway?

[teqguy]

If you want to enter a third party into this discussion, let him do it on his own terms.

You are the one that conjured up the nonsense that a service that's not in use does not have a footprint, not he. So, nothing you could possibly copy and paste could hold a grain of salt around here, let alone the respect of people with fewer posts than yourself.


Furthermore, your friend doesn't have a clue what he's talking about either.

+ The Windows kernel does not directly address subsystems or services... this was one of the improvements over NT that came with 2000.

+ OS/2 and POSIX are prevalent in Windows XP out of the box, obviously your friend has never heard of the WoW(Windows on Windows) 16bit subsystem.

+ If his accumulative footprint for SVCHOST is at 40MB, he's dealing with a virus.

+ Despite the amount of memory used, the bottom line is that services that go unused should logically be disabled.

+ Applied science shows that Windows XP operates better with fewer services enabled, so there is nothing you or your immature friend could conjure up to dispute that.

[ZMarre]

+ If his accumulative footprint for SVCHOST is at 40MB, he's dealing with a virus.

If I add my System, user, Local Service and Network Service svchosts, I get 50MB, and no-way that I have a virus :)

Btw, interesting discussion now, but as teqguy said, plz invite your friend here so he can participate directly and not via you.

IMPORTANT: plz no whining, flaming and so-on. This is a forum, all different kinds of ppl, respect eachother ok? Thx :toast:

Oh, before I forgot: youre friend did now everything exept answering the main question in this thread: does the disabling of services affect the performance? (Ok I know the answer from reality, but I'm curious about his answer :))

[teqguy]

If I add my System, user, Local Service and Network Service svchosts, I get 50MB, and no-way that I have a virus :)

There's no possible way those services could accumulate that much memory under normal circumstances without outside interaction.

You've either purposely enabled all of the services, have a virus, or are suffering from Windows' infamous memory leak.


In any case, most of those services shouldn't be enabled all the time or at all, let alone have ever been included by default in the first place.

[ZMarre]

There's no possible way those services could accumulate that much memory under normal circumstances without outside interaction.

You've either purposely enabled all of the services, have a virus, or are suffering from Windows' infamous memory leak.

This is on a regular install, with lots of processes running (of which 7 svchosts). Quite normal if you ask me. And absolutely no viri.


In any case, most of those services shouldn't be enabled all the time or at all, let alone have ever been included by default in the first place.

Nah, Windows is made to satisfy ALL customers in the whole world u know...

[teqguy]

Nah, Windows is made to satisfy ALL customers in the whole world u know...

Explain Fast User Switching, Background Intelligent Transfer, Smart Card, Remote Registry, Upload Manager, Web Client, UPNP, Windows Time, QoS RSVP, Error Reporting Service, NetBios Helper Service, and Messenger Service.


None of those appeal to a vast majority, and some of them are even exploitable.

Microsoft couldve at least left these set to Manual, but instead most of them are set to Automatic.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

explain how superPI times are quicker then with services disabled hmmmm? make me a graph for that one! :slap:

[teqguy]

Uh, they probably aren't... but SuperPI doesn't function like a typical application, so just because that application isn't affected, doesn't mean other applications won't be affected.

Besides, if you don't need them running, there's really no point in having them enabled, despite whether or not they affect performance.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

Uh, they probably aren't... but SuperPI doesn't function like a typical application, so just because that application isn't affected, doesn't mean other applications won't be affected.

Besides, if you don't need them running, there's really no point in having them enabled, despite whether or not they affect performance.


OOOOOHHHHH! hey dude! can you give me the link then for how the placebo affect affects computer programs please! maybe if i get my computer to THINK its faster......... :slap:

dude, ive seen it happen myself, disabling services speeds up a computer,

[teqguy]

If you're just going to be sarcastic and condescending, don't bother posting.


The amount of services running has a direct effect on the amount of resources used; it's pure ignorance to think otherwise.

If you have resources devoted to services, that directly translates to less resources available for applications... and while you might not notice that in the applications you use, the applications I use could appreciate from having additional memory available to them.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

If you're just going to be sarcastic and condescending, don't bother posting.


The amount of services running has a direct effect on the amount of resources used; it's pure ignorance to think otherwise.

If you have resources devoted to services, that directly translates to less resources available for applications... and while you might not notice that in the applications you use, the applications I use could appreciate from having additional memory available to them.

wait wait wait, you went from saying disabling services has NO effect from disabling services to saying disabling services has a POSITIVE effect.

dude your hilarious, anybody else think this is rather entertaining? guess you an al gore wannabe?

[ZMarre]

wait wait wait, you went from saying disabling services has NO effect from disabling services to saying disabling services has a POSITIVE effect.

dude your hilarious, anybody else think this is rather entertaining? guess you an al gore wannabe?

Dude, if someone has to reconsider hisself, I think it would be you... I see three posts of you here, and two of them are just below-level. Seriously.

And he says that Windows in his whole content speeds up (it does! And if you don't believe me, well hell go outside and get a life); but maybe SuperPI doesn't because it only needs marginal use of RAM.

And if you would have read the whole thread, you would have seen that I will post all sorts of benchmarks men can think of, with full install, full install with services disabled, and nLite'd install.

BTW, didn't bachus_anonym post allready benchmarks? :confused: Seems like they disappeared? :poke:

[bachus_anonym]

Take it easy guys... That goes to WeStSiDePLaYa, Zmarre, teqguy...
I do not want to see anyone jumping at eachother or flaming, OK?

Anyway... I decided to run some SuperPi 1M & 16M calculations, to see how much difference it really makes as far as performance is concerned. Tests are done on my Internet PC with WinXP Home SP2. Startup items were disabled using msconfig. Benchmarks were run right after OS started and screenshots were taken in exactly same same order, after last run was completed (4th for 1M and 2nd for 16M).

So here we go:

-----------------------------------------------
SuperPi 1M

WindowsXP Home Default services started / no startup

1st run - 37.634
2nd run - 37.624
3rd run - 37.635
4th run - 37.624

WindowsXP Home - only 3 essential services started / no startup

1st run - 37.574
2nd run - 37.574
3rd run - 37.574
4th run - 37.564

As you can see, 1M does't really benefit from disabling services, but surely it freed 34-44MB of RAM space.

[bachus_anonym]

-----------------------------------------------
SuperPi 16M

WindowsXP Home Default services started / no startup


1st run - 15:17.178
2nd run - 15:14.916

WindowsXP Home - only 3 essential services started / no startup

1st run - 15:13.463
2nd run - 15:13.664

Again, 16M does't get too much of a boost from disabling services, slightly more than 1.5s.

Well, honestly I was a bit surprised by te results. When I get a chance I will repeat those tests on my Benchmarking PC, that has Windows Server 2003 installed as I do not really bench with WinXP. As far as I remember, on Server2003 I get ~4s difference in SuperPi 16M coming from default services to only 3 services left. I will post results as soon as I get a new CPU.

[teqguy]

Warned for flaming - conrad.maranan

[KoolDrew]

but there is proof that it does make a difference.

In syntehtic benchmarks, yes I do admit you ma see an increase in scores, but when it comes to real world performance such as gaming there will be no benefit from disabling services.

[teqguy]

And gaming is the end all to computing?

Try using several applications that actually demand resources and you'll see a difference.

[KoolDrew]

And gaming is the end all to computing?

I was using gaming as an example of a real world test.


Try using several applications that actually demand resources and you'll see a difference.

placebo effect ;) Unless you have ~128MB of RAM there will be NO real world performance benefit

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

Warned for flaming - conrad.maranan

buddy, i may not use proper puncution or spelling, but at least i have whats called reading comprehension, if you go and read my posts it says I ALSO THINKI DISABLING SERVICES IS A GOOD IDEA.


explain how superPI times are quicker then with services disabled hmmmm? make me a graph for that one! :slap:


hmmmm...... seems to me that my very first post is stating that superpi times are faster with services disabled.

[teqguy]

placebo effect ;) Unless you have ~128MB of RAM there will be NO real world performance benefit

Freeing up memory can't possibly have anything less than a positive effect, because you're increasing the amount of available memory for other applications.

This is by no means a placebo effect... and it's ignorant to think otherwise when the logic is presented to you on a silver platter.

The bottom line is that there is absolutely no reason to have unused services running, so despite whether or not you or anyone else notices an inherent benefit from disabling them, you can't possibly sit there and contest that they should remain enabled simply for the sake of justifying your point.


It's obvious that you don't have and have never used applications where 512MB is near the minimum requirements, and 1GB is closer to the recommended requirements.

Try playing around with XSI, Premiere, CCE, or any professional software and tell me if you can still function with a memory insufficiency.




buddy, i may not use proper puncution or spelling, but at least i have whats called reading comprehension, if you go and read my posts it says I ALSO THINKI DISABLING SERVICES IS A GOOD IDEA.

Uh... then what was that whole "placebo effect" statement you made in one of your posts?


OOOOOHHHHH! hey dude! can you give me the link then for how the placebo affect affects computer programs please! maybe if i get my computer to THINK its faster.........

[ZMarre]

Hell, how many times I still have to say it??

If I tell you that the difference between a full 595MB WinXP install and an install of 95MB is so huge that I almost fell of my chair, THEN IT IS LIKE THAT damned

I did it, you didn't so WHY THE HELL DO YOU DOUBT MY EXPERIENCE?

(not to one particular person, but to all who keeps saying that it can't be)

And if you don't call Windows-navigating real-life, then WHAT for godsake men can call real-life? :poke:

To proof that I'm no way under placebo-effect: I standard underclock my PC's (my PIV 2.4GHz is at 1.8GHz ATM for example) because I don't notice a single performancedrop between 2.4GHz and 1.8GHz.

If ricky and pedro say that by changing your ACPI uniprocessor driver into multiprocessordriver you gain something with SuperPI, everybody just nods and praises them. But when I say that with a uber-lite Windows everything speeds up, almost everybody screams like 'that can't be true, you're lying, whatever'... *sigh*

[teqguy]

ZMarre, don't worry about it.

If you look at every single post KoolDrew and Westsideplaya have made, you'll see that all of their posts are single sentences that lack any real insight or depth to them.

So, if you're worried about anyone actually taking them seriously, I find it very unlikely.

I mean, come on, they're arguing against logic and tangible proof. :rolleyes:

[BMORIN]

ZMarre,

I'm still waiting for you to bench '01 to test the different settings you mentioned before (normal winxp, winxp & standard tweaks, winlite). Hopefully you'll get some time to give us some results. Why not try doing the same with win2k pro as most people use that to bench '01. It's been my experience that the OS tweaks never really benefitted my scores, but would like to see some real-world results. Seems like this always gets discussed but noone really ever goes to the work to make solid tested comparisons.

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

ZMarre, don't worry about it.

If you look at every single post KoolDrew and Westsideplaya have made, you'll see that all of their posts are single sentences that lack any real insight or depth to them.

So, if you're worried about anyone actually taking them seriously, I find it very unlikely.

I mean, come on, they're arguing against logic and tangible proof. :rolleyes:


i was saying DISABLING SERVICES HAS A POSITIVE EFFECT.

[runmc]

flaming edited by staff

This sort of talk belongs in a PM, not on open forums. "NO MORE" - please :nono:

[ZMarre]

ZMarre,

I'm still waiting for you to bench '01 to test the different settings you mentioned before (normal winxp, winxp & standard tweaks, winlite). Hopefully you'll get some time to give us some results. Why not try doing the same with win2k pro as most people use that to bench '01. It's been my experience that the OS tweaks never really benefitted my scores, but would like to see some real-world results. Seems like this always gets discussed but noone really ever goes to the work to make solid tested comparisons.

I will, no worry :) But I have exams ATM, so... (and guess what my exam monday is about: Operating Systems :D )

But I don't have a copy of win2k ATM, so I doubt I can bench with it as well
:( Will do my best to get my hands on some anyway :)

Stay tuned ;)

Oh and btw, because I'm studying this ATM, I'll try to get some time tomorrow to seek for some explanations in my 600page handbook about this stuff :)

[KoolDrew]

ZMarre, don't worry about it.

If you look at every single post KoolDrew and Westsideplaya have made, you'll see that all of their posts are single sentences that lack any real insight or depth to them.

So, if you're worried about anyone actually taking them seriously, I find it very unlikely.

I mean, come on, they're arguing against logic and tangible proof. :rolleyes:

We are discussing about disabling services and you start talking about the content of our posts.

How can anybody take you seriously when you have no idea how the Windows operating system handles memory at all. I will even quote you.


Services are given a set minimum footprint that they rapidly expand far beyond, and once they expand to that, they don't shrink in usage.

Anybody who had any idea how the Windows operating system functions would know that is completely incorrect. You also said a kernel developer has no idea what he is talking about. :rolleyes:

Do yourself a favor and pick up a copy of "Windows Internals". You might actually learn a few things about how windows atually does function and realize you are in fact wrong.