PDA

View Full Version : Removing the A64 IHS



Pages : [1] 2 3

Liquid3D
06-10-2004, 05:00 PM
I'm thinking of taking the "Road {much} Less Travelled" and walking that road naked. That is to say, without the protective IHS on my A64 3400.

Two problems:

1.) There's no definitive guide on the Net I've been able to Google

2.) This is a new 3-year warranty bird, and she's a very poor overclocker.

Solution A. Compromise my integrity, and return the chip claiming it's faulty, hoping for a better overclocker?

Solution B. Remove the IHS for another 5C (I belive the benefits of removing this 800lb Gorilla outwiegh that of Northwood temps after removal)?

Solution C. GET THESE DAM PROMETEIA'S FIXED (and give SIlverSink his).

HElp? Anyone Do this? Anyone do this on a Prescott? My 3.0C IHS removal gave me a 7C total temp reduction. My 2.4C only got about 4C. Both performed better, and better contact was made with waterblocks in each case though.

xxORBxx
06-10-2004, 05:34 PM
Number 1 :D

I hear the cores crush pretty easy but i dont know.

sandman
06-10-2004, 05:41 PM
They're pretty fragile. Screw integrity, go for the overclock.

xxORBxx
06-10-2004, 05:44 PM
lol are you just gonna send it back or try and kill it first, and how

bh2k
06-10-2004, 06:22 PM
Agreed, return it for a better clocker.

afireinside
06-10-2004, 09:43 PM
Kill it with static :D

xxORBxx
06-10-2004, 09:58 PM
lol thats what i was gonna do to mine.

pkrew
06-10-2004, 10:41 PM
Did it with my 3400+ gave me 7C better temps and about 50mhz better oc. Very easy to do. Take a standard razor blade make sure its parallel to the IHS. There's and area that's open, start there and very carefully work your way around.

Naughtyboy
06-10-2004, 11:15 PM
I´ve been thinking of doing this to....

Liquid Bro.. lemme know how I goes if you do it...and how you did it.

comment
06-11-2004, 12:10 AM
Here's a guide to removing the IHS on an AMD 3xxx+ 64Bit CPU (http://www.burn-it.dk/index.php?state=artikler_read&artikler_nr=38).

Edit: Link fix :)

It's written in danish but with lots of pictures.

DjTonic
06-11-2004, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by Liquid3D
My 3.0C IHS removal gave me a 7C total temp reduction. My 2.4C only got about 4C. Both performed better, and better contact was made with waterblocks in each case though.

I have also 3.0C with stepping SL6WU L342, can i safetly remove my IHS ? Because i have read some months ago, about issue with epoxy termal grase and destroyed EE (M0) core...

Naughtyboy
06-11-2004, 12:34 AM
Originally posted by comment
Here's a guide to removing the IHS on an AMD 3xxx+ 64Bit CPU (http://www.burn-it.dk/index.php?state=artikler_read&artikler_nr=38)

:toast: :toast:

comment
06-11-2004, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by DjTonic
I have also 3.0C with stepping SL6WU L342, can i safetly remove my IHS ? Because i have read some months ago, about issue with epoxy termal grase and destroyed EE (M0) core... You can't be sure not to harm the CPU by doing it I'm affraid. A fellow geek at overclocking.dk killed his P4 3.0C SL6WK trying to remove the IHS - it was soldered og glued to the core :(

HKPolice
06-11-2004, 05:10 PM
I just took the dive 'n removed the IHS on my A64 3200+ and I only saw about a 3C temperature drop.... Probably won't help further overclocking, but any gain is good I suppose. HOPEFULLY I'll get another 2C drop after the AS5 settles, but from my experience, it almost never happens.

Tip: Use a paper thin razor blade, this is the ONLY way to do it.

People who saw higher than 3C temp drops: From my experience with an SLK-948U, the pressure on the CPU die (with the IHS) is insufficient. I could still jiggle the heatsink slightly when it was securely screwed onto the backplate. Therefore I put 2 washers underneath the spring to increase the tension, until the heatsink wouldn't budge.

This is why I think I only got a 3C drop. Anyone using an thermalright heatsink should do what I did with the washers to increase the tension.

Regarding the P4 IHS: I'm 99% sure that ONLY the M0 (including P4 EE) cores are epoxied. All other steppings use thermal paste.

snowwie
06-11-2004, 07:50 PM
AS I UNDERSTAND IT:

I was under the impression that Intel has been shifting all P4 packages to have the IHS epoxied on, not just greased

the new packaging started with the P4-EE and subsequent M0 stepping cores, and then prescott packages had the epoxy too.

With the new 30 cap packages the newer D1 stepping cores are getting the same treatment too.

intel just sees it pretty simply: epoxy results in better thermal transfer than the grease they were using before. there are doubtlessly other advantages too.

also, if you look at pictures on the web, you can see that intel omits the nickel plating where the core comes in contact with the IHS, thus further improving thermal transfer.

In the case of the P4 (nearly most that are shipping today), the TIM joint added as a result of the IHS is most likely negligable, not worth pulling off (you'll kill the core), but probably worth lapping down if you're that much worried about it.

as far as the A64, I would pull off the IHS, but all depends on the person

Liquid3D
06-11-2004, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by DjTonic
I have also 3.0C with stepping SL6WU L342, can i safetly remove my IHS ? Because i have read some months ago, about issue with epoxy termal grase and destroyed EE (M0) core...

I wouldn't recommend removing the IHS if the processor was purchased in the last 7-months. Since the release of the EE's epoxy is used. Why? It's much better (providing it's silver epoxy) then the Shin-Etsu they were using.

Thank you all so much for replying. Sorry it took so long to get back, I had to edite my email address. I miss it here, and it just goes to shopw there's two sides to every story, issue, coin, Eastern Philosophy, and even your teeth have their back-side (which is often the most important because it's not seen, it's more important one brushes there). Anyway if you don't know what I'm speking on, I can't/won't say in the name of amends, and fairness.

I was thinking of returning the chip claiming it's not performing properly, as fabricating isn't in my spirit, but this has the truth in it. Do you think the Egg tests these returns, or simply ships another?

On another topic. I decided to spend $180 for a Digi-Doc and got this thing by Chaintech called the ZNF3-250. It's resembles a motherboard, but has very limited BIOS options. No multiplier access, and no BIOS updates as yet. Can anyone tell me what these setting do?

DDR Drive Strength
Feedback Drive Strength

options are Normal and 2X

also there's
DDR Skew Adjust
Feedback Skew Adjust

options are 1,2,3 and I beleive Disabled, or 0?

IvanAndreevich
06-12-2004, 11:20 AM
I have to warn that AMD SOI cores are very fragile. This is the reason IHS was introduced in the first place.

Goldlocke
06-14-2004, 11:49 PM
use some old AthlonXP or Duron rubber pumpers an the edges!

Naughtyboy
06-15-2004, 02:45 AM
Well... I removed mine...and with a SLK978 coupled with a Alu fan 80mm @12v i got 4C decrease in idle temps and about 10C decrease in load temps.

Before I removed the IHS I tried to remount the SLK 5 times just to be sure I didn´t got it wrong...but same temps every time.

So in this case I think the modd was worth it.

comment
06-15-2004, 03:54 AM
Originally posted by Naughtyboy
Well... I removed mine...and with a SLK978 coupled with a Alu fan 80mm @12v i got 4C decrease in idle temps and about 10C decrease in load temps.

Before I removed the IHS I tried to remount the SLK 5 times just to be sure I didn´t got it wrong...but same temps every time.

So in this case I think the modd was worth it. Did you get a higher stable clock too?

Demogorg
06-16-2004, 10:57 AM
do i have to cut this ihs off when i am using a prommi ??? i will pruchase a a64 in 1-2 weeks and i will purchase (just for this cpu) a second prommi with socket 754 kit (and sell my old prommi with socket a kit :D) so it would be cool to know if i have to cut this thing off

Demogorg

Naughtyboy
06-16-2004, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by comment
Did you get a higher stable clock too?

Yes about 80mhz

comment
06-16-2004, 11:38 PM
Originally posted by Naughtyboy
Yes about 80mhz Okay, a little better. It seems that the A64's are more clock-sensitive to removing the IHS than the P4's. My P4 didn't get higher clocks and others I've talked with on this issue had the same experience.

Naughtyboy
06-17-2004, 02:46 AM
But even thou I didn´t get any significant increase in clocks....I could run it at lower voltage than before even with thoose extra 80mhz added....a good thing IMHO

Huhn
06-17-2004, 03:11 AM
is it possible to mount the mach1 on a a64 without that spreader? because i´m thinking about getting a mobile 3200+ and throw it under my prommy. gonna use the retail mounting kit

Pejsen
06-17-2004, 04:54 AM
I removed one on a 3200+ i had, it yielded better results on air. Alot better temps actually, and i think around 50Mhz prime stable more.

Evil_Spork
06-17-2004, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Liquid3D

Solution B. Remove the IHS for another 5C (I belive the benefits of removing this 800lb Gorilla outwiegh that of Northwood temps after removal)?
HElp? Anyone Do this? Anyone do this on a Prescott? My 3.0C IHS removal gave me a 7C total temp reduction. My 2.4C only got about 4C. Both performed better, and better contact was made with waterblocks in each case though.


newer P4's have the IHS epoxy'ed on.... dont try to remove it. i think this may be that case with A64's aswell. if you remove the IHS, the core is comming of fthe package with it.

xgman
06-18-2004, 06:52 AM
I dropped 7-8 degrees (water) on a FX53-939 cpu, but the thing is that when you re-mount the exposed core you have to apply much less force that what is called for under the IHS spec. Do not overtighten and it helps to place a few pads around the core.

the chances of damage are compounded greatly if you plan on moving the cpu on and off fairly regularly. The top can be sealed back on if you are very carefull.

RoydRage
06-20-2004, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by HKPolice
Therefore I put 2 washers underneath the spring to increase the tension, until the heatsink wouldn't budge.

This is why I think I only got a 3C drop. Anyone using an thermalright heatsink should do what I did with the washers to increase the tension.

Regarding the P4 IHS: I'm 99% sure that ONLY the M0 (including P4 EE) cores are epoxied. All other steppings use thermal paste.

Shouldn't you also file down the standoffs, since the screws bottom out on them? That would compensate for the lower position of the heatsink with the IHS Removed.

As far as the Epoxy goes... Has anyone removed one from a *NEW* Athlon 64? I just finished a system for someone with a A64 +3200, and Gigabyte Pro nf3 250 board, and I would like to lower the temps, but I don't want to go destroying the chip.

Thanks,

Roydrage

saaya
06-20-2004, 10:26 AM
just cut the gum and try to remove the heatspreader very carefully... if it wont come off just leave it on :)

or ask sysfailure about it ;) and send him greetings from me :D

Jasonxxx
06-20-2004, 04:57 PM
I ordered my 3200+ CG 5AR about a week ago from newegg and just removed the IHS with no problems..

I have about 6C - 7C drop in temp with about 80mhz increase in a stable overclock...

Just need to be careful and patient...

saaya
06-20-2004, 05:12 PM
what cooling is that? do you have any pics of it?

6-7C° is nice! idle or under load?

Jasonxxx
06-20-2004, 06:20 PM
I'm using the Swifty 6400 V with 92mm tornado... I have the tornado running with about 6-7v.

I don't have any pics. I will have a new Cannon A75 Digi Cam on Tuesday. I don't think I will pull it back apart until next weekend. Summer term starts for me on Monday..

At stock speed my idle temp was 39 -40C with the system temp at about 34 -35C (using MSI ' s Corecell) Load temp was about 48 - 49C...

At 2400mhz my idle temp was at about 43 - 44C and load temp was 53 -54C..

After I removed the IHS my idle temp at 2400mhz is about 38C and my load temp hovers around 47C, that is with only 6-7v to the tornado ( my temps drop between 1-2C with 12v to the tornado)

saaya
06-20-2004, 06:30 PM
yeah, that heatsink is very nice! does a 120mm fan fit on it?

i have a bunch of 120 mm deltas here (38mm thick 2800rpm iirc) wich are extremely nice. at 12v they move 100cfm without making a lot of noise.

and at 5v they still move a lot of air (i guess around 50cfm or more!) and are almost completely silent!

you should try one of them if you can find them. should get you really nice low temps.

Jasonxxx
06-20-2004, 08:12 PM
Thats kind of funny you say that, because I bought the swifty instead of the thermalright, so I could use a 120mm X 38 fan..

I had a 120 X 38mm 130cfm fan mounted on it with a 120mm to 92mm fan adapter. It was a little quieter, but didn't cool as good.

I got the fan adapter from Frozencpu.com. I don't like it though. It said it was for a 120mm to 92mm adaption, but on the 120mm side the hole opening is a little to small. (cutting off some of the air flow from the 120mm fan. The 92mm side is just fine. It mounts just fine on the Swifty and the 120mm fan...

I would recommend getting one of the all aluminum built 120mm to 92mm adapters.
I will get one in next couple of weeks and try it again. I did like the quiet 120mm fan, but with the tornado at 6-7v it is pretty quiet, but not as much as the 120mm...
:toast:

aoc007
06-20-2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Jasonxxx
Thats kind of funny you say that, because I bought the swifty instead of the thermalright, so I could use a 120mm X 38 fan..

I had a 120 X 38mm 130cfm fan mounted on it with a 120mm to 92mm fan adapter. It was a little quieter, but didn't cool as good.

I got the fan adapter from Frozencpu.com. I don't like it though. It said it was for a 120mm to 92mm adaption, but on the 120mm side the hole opening is a little to small. (cutting off some of the air flow from the 120mm fan. The 92mm side is just fine. It mounts just fine on the Swifty and the 120mm fan...

I would recommend getting one of the all aluminum built 120mm to 92mm adapters.
I will get one in next couple of weeks and try it again. I did like the quiet 120mm fan, but with the tornado at 6-7v it is pretty quiet, but not as much as the 120mm...
:toast:

Get that Alu adapter
this:
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/delffb1212eh.html
and this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-999-903&depa=0
:)
That fan controller is really good Im ordering one today you can adjust fans from 0v - 12v. Does anyone know if theres a way to mount a 120mm on a SP-94 :D (that isnt really ghetto) also is SP-94 still the best retail S478 heatsink?

saaya
06-20-2004, 08:54 PM
just 20$? damn, cant find that fan here in germany....

termaltake just released an alu sp-94. its almost 2 times as big as the copper one though, so it could cool even better than the sp-94. i havent seen a review of it yet, though.

afireinside
06-21-2004, 06:33 PM
Sorry to bump an old topic but has anyone had an IHS epoxied to an A64 core? I want to take the IHS off my 3000+ CG core that I got retail from newegg when the VNF3-250 came out but I'm affraid it might be epoxied on...

saaya
06-21-2004, 07:12 PM
so far i havent heard of an epoxied ihs on an a64.

afireinside
06-21-2004, 07:14 PM
Ok now I just have to Vmod the board, graphics card, PSU, fit everything into a case, take the shim off my 9500pro, hope I dont kill the chip, and than hope everything works :stick:

xxmartin
08-10-2004, 08:17 AM
Hi!

Just wanted to thank you all for the useful comments & links on removing the A64 heatspreader. It helped me a lot.

Great temperature drop and much better overclock at lower voltage.

To see screenshots, just look here:
http://www.planet3dnow.de/vbulletin/showthread.php3?threadid=175268

Sorry, it's a german site. But I think pictures and numbers can be easily understood. ;)


Martin

saaya
08-10-2004, 09:12 AM
willkommen auf XtremeSystems martin :D :toast:

20C lower load temps are HUGE! :eek: thats really really sick...
was there enough termal grease on the core when you removed the ihs?

xxmartin
08-10-2004, 09:37 AM
Hi!

The heatspreader fitted very good, actually. And there was also enough thermal grease on it.

http://home.arcor.de/xxmartin/A64/a64_ihs.jpg

But not only the 20K temperature drop was great. The most important fact is

with IHS -> 2500 MHz only @ 1.600V primestable
with IHS -> 2600 MHz not primestable, even with 1.850V

without IHS -> 2500 MHz @ 1.500V (click me!) (http://home.arcor.de/xxmartin/A64/2500@1.500.png)
without IHS -> 2600 MHz @ 1.625V (click me!) (http://home.arcor.de/xxmartin/A64/2600@1.625.png)

It's just great. At the moment I am playing around with this
http://home.arcor.de/xxmartin/A64/2700.png

:D

Guess it's a quite good result with only standard watercooling.

Martin

xgman
08-10-2004, 11:07 AM
use A straight double sided edge rasor for slicing and then gently pry up each corner and edge till she pops.

aldamon
08-10-2004, 12:04 PM
Hmm, I might have to give this a try. With the number of Mobiles being sold, the cores can't be that fragile. If I take my time and mount my Cascade with even pressure, I think I'll be fine. The only thing that worries me is that the LR Cascade does not use springs when mounted on an A64.

StormPC
08-10-2004, 01:36 PM
I would leave the IHS on unless you have a really bad overclocker. If it overclocks well that means the IHS is making great contact and you won't see much increase if any. If it doesn't OC well it may be because the thermal paste was not properly applied or the IHS was not installed properly.

Also, when using an evap you had better be very careful. Personally I have not experienced any performance increase from removing the IHS. Also, the ClawHammers are less delicate than the Newcastles because they are larger. It's not worth the risk IMO. I run my FX-53 naked because I bought it that way, but I would never have removed the IHS myself because it made no difference on the 2 A64s I tried it on previously.;)

saaya
08-10-2004, 08:34 PM
no difference at all in temps and ocability?

thats odd.

i heard from several people who removed the ihs that they got at least a 1C drop, most got around 4C under load.

WesM63
08-10-2004, 09:11 PM
Ok, here's a question. I'm selling my 3200+ in favor of a great clocking 3400+. The 3400+ has the IHS removed, but will my waterblocks work with it off?

TDX and MCw-6002?

xxmartin
08-11-2004, 04:14 AM
Originally posted by WesM63
Ok, here's a question. I'm selling my 3200+ in favor of a great clocking 3400+. The 3400+ has the IHS removed, but will my waterblocks work with it off?

TDX and MCw-6002?
As long as your watercooler uses the 2-mounting-hole-screwing and NOT the retention modul there should be no problem at all.

I guess your waterblock is fixed with springs? That should work any way. However, be careful not to use same pressure as for an A64 with IHS. The SOI-dies are said to be very fragile.

aldamon
08-11-2004, 06:42 AM
Do the cores crush easily or just chip?

The reason I ask is that my Cascasde water block does not require springs in an A64 setup. I take my time mounting the block, so the pressure is very even. I don't stop until the screws stop moving. It's a very stable and even mount that's not likely to chip the core. If crushing is a possibility, I won't be removing the IHS.

xgman
08-11-2004, 01:12 PM
I quote A recent post by Cathar, designer of the cascade etc:

"Almost every single cooling device on the planet will perform better if the IHS is removed. The IHS is a hindrance to the removal of heat from the CPU die. It does nothing at all to help keep the CPU cool except in the very limited scenario of poorly designed and performing aluminium based heatsinks. Anyone remember the original stock all-aluminium P4 air-coolers? Anyone?"

aldamon
08-12-2004, 03:58 AM
I'm going to give it a try. My 3200+ Clawhammer won't budge past 2.4 GHz, even at 1.8V.

CodeRed
08-12-2004, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by StormPC
I would leave the IHS on unless you have a really bad overclocker. If it overclocks well that means the IHS is making great contact and you won't see much increase if any. If it doesn't OC well it may be because the thermal paste was not properly applied or the IHS was not installed properly.

Also, when using an evap you had better be very careful. Personally I have not experienced any performance increase from removing the IHS. Also, the ClawHammers are less delicate than the Newcastles because they are larger. It's not worth the risk IMO. I run my FX-53 naked because I bought it that way, but I would never have removed the IHS myself because it made no difference on the 2 A64s I tried it on previously.;)

lol, I must have one of those really bad overclockers :D

5 deg C drop in core temp and an extra 84 MHz from my 3400+/prommy setup :)

worth it in MO? It depends on how badly you want that extra Mhz :D

saaya
08-12-2004, 04:11 AM
what temps are you getting?

CodeRed
08-12-2004, 04:23 AM
CPU core temp running prime95 as follows:

Before IHS removal:

1.55V -11 deg C, -48 on the evap
1.60V -10 deg C, -47 on the evap


After IHS removal:

1.55V -17 deg C, -48 on the evap
1.60V -15 deg C, -47 on the evap

unfortunately I didnt take temp readings at the higher voltages, these are all that I wrote down.

Also, I didnt notice any significant OC gains at the lower voltages. The real benefit only became aparent at 1.8V and higher. At first I thought the mod was a waste of time (only tested up to 1.6V on the first night) , then the following night I did some 1.95V runs and got a SuperPi 1M at 3044 Mhz.

aldamon
08-12-2004, 04:22 PM
Well, I took mine off. I have to say guys, it was pretty easy. My first CPU "hack" was taking the cartridge off of my Slot A Athlon and this paled in comparison. It took me all of ten minutes with a razor blade. I even hard mounted my Cascade with no trouble or cracked core.

The jury is still out on its effectiveness, but we'll see how it goes. The temperature sensor on my 8KDA3J is obviously in socket because it goes up when I remove the side cover and its 120mm blowhole fan. With my water cooling in place, that's not sensible. I'll have to rely on improved performance rather than temperatures to judge its effects. I'm currently Priming at a speed that failed after two hours before removing the IHS. Hopefully the AS5 will cure a bit while Priming. I want 2.5 GHz damnit!

PS: Anybody else think the IHS would make a damn good keychain? :toast:

Flak
08-13-2004, 05:42 AM
Does anyone know if the alpha8150 will work once the IHS is removed? I'm currently getting 2.43 with two sticks of ram and 2.49 with one stick of ram. Hoping removing the IHS will put me over 2.5.

saaya
08-13-2004, 02:39 PM
welcome to XtremeSystems flak :toast:

well we can def say that removing the ihs doesnt decrease your oc, so even if the gain is small, its there :)

what mounting mechanism does your hsf use flak?

Flak
08-14-2004, 07:35 PM
the alpha8150 screws into the backplate. but the screws are setup such that they can only be screwed down so far. I'm thinking that for it to work I will have to find screws the proper length that will fit.

saaya
08-15-2004, 06:48 PM
they are all standardtised, so it sdhouldnt be a problem.

on videocards the holes are perfect for 4mm screws, dont know about cpu holes.

jess1313
08-16-2004, 03:40 PM
I had removed My IHS, but I couldnt get good contact with it off.
After this I put it back on with AS5 & gain 150mhz clock with 22c lower on idle.

This sounds like alot but I can clock way higher with less voltage now.

Mine was not making good contact with the IHS, there was a big bubble in the center of the factory clue.


Well worth it. I am on air BTW.

Also it helps to heat the spreader when cutting it off. Just us a cig lighter.

PanaBob
08-16-2004, 06:25 PM
So why not just get a 3200+ A64 M that comes without the IHS? Isn't "CG" supposed to OC better? Or do the newcastles OC better? I'll transition to A64 as soon as I learn enough about the new chipsets and the DFI board comes out :D

saaya
08-16-2004, 06:29 PM
there are newcastle c0 and cg chips, and clawhammer c0 and very few clawhammer cg chips afaik.

the clawhammer cg chips are what everybody is looking for afaik.

i think i will make this thread sticky

OC Detective
08-16-2004, 10:05 PM
No such thing as CO Newcastles they are disabled Clawhammers. (Newegg and others label them wrongly).

saaya
08-17-2004, 05:09 AM
ahhhh thx for correcting me :)

Jasonxxx
08-17-2004, 10:36 AM
:D :D

InsaneMan
08-18-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by xxORBxx
Number 1 :D

I hear the cores crush pretty easy but i dont know.

Yeaaah..
Better Overclock :smileysex

jonspd
08-18-2004, 08:06 PM
Well I did it to my a64 3000 about an hour ago and idle temp's look much better have to wait for the AS5 to set to see what kinda max I can get now.

IvanAndreevich
08-19-2004, 10:50 AM
jonspd
How much lower temps are you getting already?

jonspd
08-19-2004, 11:26 AM
Well full load isn't hitting 50C+ anymore it's more around 46 and idle temp has droped over 5c lower then before as for the overclock I was able to run 236 before @ 1.7 and now I can run about 242 after with same volt's.

After AS5 set's I'am hoping for around 44c full load @ 2.45 with about 1.72 volts I will have to put the mod back on of course tho:banana:

aldamon
08-21-2004, 02:56 AM
Hi everyone,

Sorry for the delayed update, if anyone cares. The day before I removed my IHS, my gig of 3700EB arrived. Turns out, one of the sticks is bad. So while my initial results after IHS removal were "disasterous" because I never in a thousand years thought my RAM would be bad, they are now sweet with my backup RAM installed. That's what I get for changing two components in a system at the same time :)

Before IHS removal, I could not go higher than 2.4 GHz on 1.8V. I'm now Prime stable at 2.48 GHz @ 1.8V and climbing. I'm currently bumping it 20 Mhz at a time and Priming for 8 hours+. I know this means nothing for comparisons sake, but on my 8KDA3J with high-end water, I'm getting 40 - 42 degrees under load with an ambient temperature of 35 degrees. The temp sensor is not accurate though. The core temp goes up if I turn off my blowhole fan. The increased performance says it all IMO. I hope to get to 2.5 GHz and beyond, but we'll see.

aldamon
08-21-2004, 01:42 PM
Well, turns out 2480 wasn't stable. 2470 is though. I'll take a 70 Mhz gain for 10 minutes of work. Hopefully 2.5 GHz+ will be atainable in the winter months.

AZN
08-21-2004, 08:28 PM
is there any problem at all with contact pressure from a SLK948u on the epox NF3 board if i take the IHS off? also how delicate is the core? do i need to worry about it getting crushed without the IHS?

jonspd
08-21-2004, 08:35 PM
I'am using the same HSF without a problem about contact. As for the core it's pretty delicate. I would be sure to set the HSF a few time's before you set it for good or @ least thats what I did so I could see the contact it was getting off the patern of the hsf base.

AZN
08-21-2004, 09:47 PM
well i just took the IHS off and it doesnt help at all or very little for me. only thing i havn't tried are all the bios available. im still looking for 5-14 bios that i was recommended but having trouble finding.

tomati
08-22-2004, 12:03 PM
bios 5/14 HERE (ftp://ftp.epox.com/downloads/BIOS/kda34514.exe)

hope it will help you

Zeus
08-23-2004, 12:24 PM
Has anyone any ideas on how to glue the spreader back on?
Just in case the CPU has got to be RMA'd?

Reading this thread it seems an easy mod for a few free MHz.

jonspd
08-23-2004, 05:21 PM
I would assume it isnt possible unless you can get some of the same stuff they used @ amd to mount it with or something that look's the same.

=[PULSAR]=
08-23-2004, 09:41 PM
Yea...definitely being able to put the IHS back on to RMA it would be nice. I have a current max clock of 2.67ghz on air benchmark stable and will be taking off my IHS also get that new nanotherm PCM+ paste so hopefully better the temps even a bit more from this thread I heard a 60-80mhz increase in OC oh I would love to hit 2.75ghz on air. I will post back with results.

Zeus
08-24-2004, 10:45 AM
Argh!
Just removed the spreader, cleaned the core and removed all that black rubber-alike glue and reinstalled with AS5, my RBX on top and the nuts tighted up as firm as i dared. (almost as tight as with heatspreader. :eek: )

Guess what?

Just a lousy 2C gain idle and next to nothing under load! :(
Reseated the waterblock, no difference...

Maybe there is a small gain with more volts to the CPU, only tested with default voltage. :rolleyes:

jonspd
08-24-2004, 11:51 AM
I'am not sure if you can do this but Y not take some pad's from a old xp cpu put then on the A64 and leave the IHS off just be carefull when mounting the waterblock and dont overtighten it.

Zeus
08-24-2004, 12:56 PM
Well, the core is quit big, i think twice the size of a Barton core and looks pretty much the same material.

I've never cracked a Barton, not even with these very powerfull retentionclips of the SLK800.

This waterblock slides on and by tightening down the nuts about the same amount it should be ok, not too worried about cracking the core.

For some reason i don't think the contact is 100% so i will glue the heatspreader back on again as soon as i found the right type of glue.

To make matters worse, my max OC got down about 30MHz!! :mad: :(

pkrew
08-24-2004, 01:51 PM
You probably didn't make good contact with the core. Esp if you lost overclock. It can be tricky with the IHS removed and its very possible to get only a part of the core contacted. As far as glueing back on, I've heard that rubber cement works well, but haven't tested it.

saaya
08-25-2004, 02:52 AM
and dont forget, some people seem to not get a big improvement at all, some cpus seem to make good contact with the ihs and unless you are pumping some high volts through it you wont notice a big difference with or without the ihs :)

removing the ihs is only worth it if you going for 1.85v+ or have very high temps/a bad oc with the ihs.

=[PULSAR]=
08-25-2004, 07:28 AM
WARNING: Do not use the XP-120 with shim removed there isnt enought tension and since its using a P4 bracket there is no way to tighten it. Turned PC on and cpu was at 90c. Also accidently cut off part of those mini IC's near the core and cpu is dead now, trying to RMA it.

pkrew
08-25-2004, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by saaya
and dont forget, some people seem to not get a big improvement at all, some cpus seem to make good contact with the ihs and unless you are pumping some high volts through it you wont notice a big difference with or without the ihs :)

removing the ihs is only worth it if you going for 1.85v+ or have very high temps/a bad oc with the ihs.

This would probably depend on cooling. People on Phase change are most likely going to see the better results, but regardless of cooling you should never see a drop in oc unless you have a bad mount.

I'm not just talking about making contact or getting in tightly snuged down. You can still have a bad mount regardless. Its very easy with the IHS removed to have more pressure on one area over another on the core. With my LS the difference between a bad mount and a good one is barely stable at 2.7G to running 3d near 3G. With a bad mount the highest area of pressure is always off to one side.

This is also the best way to not crush the core. Its going to be much more difficult to crush a core when the pressure is evenly distributed then off to one side.

As far as benifit, I think its a benefit even if you have a good overclock. I started with 2.93 on my FX and took the IHS off an ended up with 2.98.

Zeus
08-26-2004, 10:55 PM
Glued the spreader back on, removing it did bugger all for me. :(

Now everything seems to be back to normal.
I used AS5 between the core and spreader but doesn't make any difference over the stuff AMD used even though it was quit hard and dried out.

Perhaps the AS5 needs some time to break in? :rolleyes:

CrazyXP1700
09-14-2004, 02:06 PM
i would try and lap both sides of the IHS... down to a mirror finish... see how that works out

and AS5 has got to burn in
i've done 5 IHS's soo far... mostly on P4's... been getting good results from all of them... :hehe:

next rig may have a A-64 FX or an Intel EE... i dont know yet
but the cooling will be a lapped to copper and mirror finish XP-120 with a 120mm delta :D and a Vapochill LS sometime afterwards

taco
09-22-2004, 07:48 PM
well.. i took mine off yesterday, and i must say, it was definatly worth the time, temperatures dropped DRAMATICALLY. may i note i have an xp120 w/ 90cfm pana.. you'd think it'd be "dangerous" to mount this heatsink on such a fragile core, plz.. mounted NO problem at all!! this is a 3000+ by the way. heres the results

heatspreader on w/ stock : 32/41c
then heatspreader ON w/ XP120 : 28/35c
THEN heatspreader OFF w/ XP120 : 21/27c !!! woo :D

taco
09-23-2004, 08:48 PM
thx spork :D

http://www.spork.1gigabyte.com/es/a64luvin.jpg

http://www.spork.1gigabyte.com/es/21cyo.JPG

=[PULSAR]=
09-24-2004, 12:34 AM
Taco how did you get the XP-120 to mount properly with the shim removed I had really bad contact.

DrJay
09-24-2004, 01:02 AM
I removed the ihs from a 3000+ last night. Cpu is a C0 stepping, 512k clawhammer, week 0343. It is indeed a failed clawhammer core as it uses the full sized 1mb die. Anyway, the ihs came off quickly and with no problems. I've only had a couple hours to test it out but the cpu is already running 70 mhz faster than its previous best overclock (2.6ghz vs 2.53) at approx. 6c cooler load temps. The before and after comparison may not be valid though as I used different heatsinks. The before was with a zalman7000-cu modified, using a 69cfm, 92mm fan and the after was with an xp-90 using the same fan. Gonna try this with a CG stepping core that overclocks a bit better....I wonder how the true NC core (being smaller)will transfer heat without the ihs.

Jay

krojczy
10-03-2004, 01:12 AM
Hi, i found at this forum 2 links to www with description about signs at A64, but i can't remember these adress, do you know where can i find it?
I think that it was writen by Karnivore or other advanced user.

RacerX
10-03-2004, 05:51 AM
Well finally got around to remove my IHS on my 3700+. Before with it on I maxed out around 2630mhz at 1.725v with my H2O setup. With it off I see a nice 70mhz jump and 4c decrease in temp. It took a few times reseeding my waterblock just making sure I don't crush the core. Never could run 3dmark at 2.7 no matter what voltage.

http://home.comcast.net/~phippy1/amd.bmp

Haven't ran prime yet but successfully ran looped 3dmark 10x without a single crash and SuperPI at 32. I'm assuming I'll need to drop it another 20mhz to make it prime stable.

Worth the removeable for me atleast.

bh2k
10-03-2004, 07:03 AM
Hey racerX that's a pretty neat little cpu program there. Where did ya pick it up?

RacerX
10-03-2004, 09:00 AM
Hey racerX that's a pretty neat little cpu program there. Where did ya pick it up?

Another member posted it here......http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=553728#post553728

scroll down towards the bottom, can't miss it.

Yes a neat little program indeed.

bldegle2
10-04-2004, 12:01 AM
"WARNING: Do not use the XP-120 with shim removed there isnt enought tension and since its using a P4 bracket there is no way to tighten it. Turned PC on and cpu was at 90c. Also accidently cut off part of those mini IC's near the core and cpu is dead now, trying to RMA it."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

i noticed something when i removed the sp-120 i am using, the heatsink had transferred some thermal paste to the bracket on one side. so, i got to looking and the heatsink definately hangs right above it, so when you removed the CPU covering, the heatsink lowered but was held askew a little bit because of the heatsink hitting the bracket. easy fixola follows.

so, i solved this and the retention problem with a little peice of sandpaper (80grit), i sanded the bracket between the stands so there was sufficient clearance, and then to help with the tension because of the lower setting, i took the same piece of sandpaper and counted twenty strokes on each bottom leg, then remounted it with no problems. i know this isn't scientific, but it works. you may want to actually sand the feet a little more, depending on your inclinations.

anyway, now you know why your temps skyrocketed to 90*c.

baldy :D

taco
10-04-2004, 12:36 AM
i had no problem at all mounting the heatsink onto it. i actually made a shim with some thin rubber material i had laying around, JUST to be sure it didnt crush, but it actually didnt make contact, and it would shutdown automaticly. so i took those off, and just mounted it "as is" NOT one problem at all, my temps are amazing and i highly recomend the heatsink without the spreader ++ :toast: just be careful

ill get some high res pics up soon!

LBJGH
10-04-2004, 08:23 AM
hmmm, I'm currently getting a 400mhz o/c out of my old (sept. '03) CO stepping 3100+ (1800-> 2200mhz) at 1.70v.

I used Tmod's biosmod to enable the Vcore setting of 1.80v on my Epox mobo but the extra voltage doesn't help at all o/c further.

Can I expect more out of this old chip or should I hold out for a new one. I don't feel like killing (and having to replace it) right now.

bldegle2
10-04-2004, 05:26 PM
and reinstalled the xp-120.

got a 4/5*c drop in temps. i reduced the vre another .025, still running the 9x284. gonna keep reducing the vre until i find out what the lowest limit it will run this setting, then work from there.

hey, in the world of clocking, any temp drop is good.

one may note, i sanded the base bracket the legs again reducing the height even more than before, and then i sanded the base of the mounting brackets where is makes contact with the MB, ie screw holes, one must do this to get a flat fit, after i sanded the legs, the bracket rocked. also, by doing all this, one does slightly increase the heatsink pressure on the CPU, the heatspreader is quite thick and much tension is lost when running nude.

the heatspreader came off in about one minute, the whole operation took less than 20 minutes.

the cpu core is rather large, so 'landing' buttons are not needed.

this was very easy to do.

the only note of caution is be real carefull not to penetrate too far with the razorblade, there are little units inside around the core that can suffer damage is one is too aggressive.

clock on.

baldy :D

=[PULSAR]=
10-04-2004, 05:44 PM
bldegle2 did you overclock increase at all? Yes be carefull with those IC's I cut a couple of mine, my friends tell me I'm impatient.

bldegle2
10-04-2004, 07:08 PM
"bldegle2 did you overclock increase at all? Yes be carefull with those IC's I cut a couple of mine, my friends tell me I'm impatient."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

that.

i am off to do an errand right now, will play when i get back. it would be nice to get an even 2600mhz out of this 2800+, only 4/5 more clicks on the clock and i am there.

i am thinking this chip would prolly do 2.9 gig on the prommie, but then i would have to get into heavy mem dividers, max multi is 9, so that would be a 322. i have had her running 7.5x320 FSB on air, but it was not so stable, maybe the extra chillin' from the prommie would make it possible.

baldy :D

bldegle2
10-04-2004, 07:48 PM
i am running 9x285, 286 balked. so far so good, but i am going to run some tests for stability.

i am not convinced this xp-120 as good as a 948U unit, but i have to say the 100cfm delta 120mm is very quiet, comparatively speaking to either a 92mm or 80mm of the HO variety.

upped the vre to 1.7 for the 285. i don't trust the cpu temp of 58*c reported by ITGuardian, this is with the 1.7, @1.6 it reads around 55*c.

it just keeps running and running.......................

i have plenty of case fans and a very clean box.

update, no go @285, back to 284. so it didn't help with the ultimate final overclock, but the cooler temps are always nice......... :D



back in awhile.

baldy :D

=[PULSAR]=
10-04-2004, 10:56 PM
BTW has anyone tried or know of someone that uses a TEC to directly cool the core no coldplate or IHS?

=[PULSAR]=
10-04-2004, 11:28 PM
So I might as well just leave the IHS on or would I see that much improvement switching to copper cold plate?

Dagalidis
10-05-2004, 01:55 AM
I'm thinking to remove IHS but ...... :(
I use EXOS watercooling with 300G waterblock.
If IHS removed will waterblock make good contact with core ???

Any of you with EXOS @ IHS removed ???

mad mikee
10-05-2004, 09:32 AM
saw many post and my own experience that you need to spend some quality time (and 220 Grit sandpaper for starters :rolleyes: ) to get flat base, usually comcave. (Maybe taking flatness lessons from nvidia?)
Follow w/ 400, 600, 1000 for better contact.

eagle101
10-09-2004, 04:55 PM
Kill it with static :D
you mean if you kill it with static and you have the retail,they give you a new cpu?

reject
10-10-2004, 07:15 AM
my new 3000+ seems to be really gay. it wont run 2.4ghz stable with 1.65v
my last one ran 2.5ghz 1.625v
is it the IHS making poor contact or does it need to be burnt in?
i will get another 3000+ when i rma the 2.5ghz one (which my kv8 pro fried)
so should i take it off or sell it if the new one is good?
in memtest i get 2 errors after 25 passes at 270x9, and windows lockups so im pretty sure its the cpu casue it is fine at 2385mhz (265x9)
any thoughts?

okay it crashed at 265x9 now im sitting on 270x8 1.55v

Liquid3D
10-12-2004, 07:13 AM
I think it's something else. I traded away my Athlon64 3400 and it's now beating me at my own game. I'm running a P4 530 at 260FSB 3.9GHz, running Hyper-X5400, on an Abit AA8, with a ATI X800 XT (watercooled CPU) and my friend JNav whom I traded away my Chaintech ZNF3, A64 3400 beat me last night with that system and a X800 Pro! I scored 24k and he scored 27k in 3DMark2001.

Bottom line, the on-die MCH is somewhat finicky, and the right memory is needed to get the right OC's. There can be so many different factors, but I'd be inclined to say it's your memory, memory timmings, or voltages. Cooling is a big issue, what are your temps, and your cooling method?

reject
10-12-2004, 07:34 PM
zalman 7000 alcu, temps are by probe on side of ihs: 37.5 folding and 30 idle. have seen up to 40 load in the afternoon
the hw monitor thingy says:53-58 load. but i dont trust that as it displays my voltages and psu rails lower than they are.
psu rails are 3.44, 5.17 and 12.24 measured by DMM.

Liquid3D
10-13-2004, 01:51 AM
I'd gaurantee in this case your temps are much closer to the internal thermal diode, then a diode placed on the sureface. For several reasons.

1st. Any thermistor even when placed optimally, has approximately 80% of it's sruface area exposed to air. Therefore your temp from that thermistor is taking the average from 10% of it's surface area contacting the CPU's IHS, 10% of it's surface area contacting the Zalman heatsink base, and the remainder of it's surface area exposed to air circulating around it. Another example of the inaccuracy of temp measurement comes from the graph below;

http://www.arcticsilver.com/images/measurement_resistance.jpg

source Arctic Silver (http://www.arcticsilver.com/measurement1.htm)
AMD and Intel have made strides to improve the accuracy of their internal thermal diode. While it's true the BIOS formula may be inaccurate, I would always be inclined to trust the higher, rather then lower temp of the BIOS reading over a thermistor. In this way your much safer.

From my personal A64 3400 experience these chips run warmer then the Socket-478 Prescott's at Idle. I found this to be true again and again. Another factor to conisder is the surface area of the IHS itself. Similair to Intel, your A64 IHS occupies 70% more surface area then the actual core beneath it. It's primary job is to "spread heat" hence the name Integrated Heat Spreader (2nd is to protect the core). So if your placing a thermistor on a IHS for temps, and it;s not about 2/3rd of way to the center, your measuring the temp of the IHS, not the core. And while the IHS may be transferring heat from the core over it's surface, it's also transferring the air-temp beneath it. Ever lok at waht's beneath the IHS at it's oyuter edge? Well it's basically the chip pacakage. And you wouldn't place your thermistor on the chip package to take a measurement.

I've never cracked an Intel core and I've easily removed two IHS's one from a 2.4C and one from a 3.0C, and I've cranked down numerous (at least four different) Socket-478 waterblocks onto those Intel cores. SO you can rest assured those IHS's are there because of exponentially increasing heat issues.

Measuring the temp of thermistor (because a thermistor only measures it's own temp) at the side would be analogous to placing the thermistor almost a full CM away (about a half CM) from the center of the IHS. Not to mention the air-flow above from the fan which is removing heat as rapidly as it's generated (if it's doing it's job). My recommendation is the following: watercool the A64 if you can afford it, and my honest opinion is the small amount you'll invest in an mid-level CPU watercooling system, will give you an immediate boost in performance far beyond what air-cooling can. More importantly, H20 would be a long-term investment extending the life of every CPU you cool with it thereafter. It would only cost a few dollars to switch to an Intel 775 or 478 mounting hardware down the road. If you want help, I can get you into a high quality water cooling system for under $180 (for everything needed) that will bring your temps down to a true 31C at full load, and 26C/27C at ilde if your room ambeint temp is 18C.
liquid3d@madshrimps.be

reject
10-13-2004, 02:48 AM
wow thanks!
so the gist of it is: if i keep air cooling id need to remove the ihs and then i could also put the diode on the side of the core
-or-
save some money and get watercooling. im thinking to go straight water first
maybe a swiftech 6000, silverprop fusion HL, mag 2 pump, clearfelx hosing and i wanna try evaporative instead of closed sys

WildKard
10-15-2004, 06:58 PM
Holy crap Im nude and loving it!

20c drop under load! OMFG

XP 120 with Panaflo medium(everyplace was sold out of 190cfm deltaS?)

with the IHS on I was getting 43c idle 69c load, I could bench and game at over 2600mhz but prime would fail instantly(other than that it was 100% stable odd)

Right now I am priming away at 2600mhz 1.65v @ 48c LOADED! I am amazed :) 38c idle 48c load, and I am hoping for 45c when the AS settles, and maybe if im REALLY lucky 40-43c when I get the 190cfm delta(with over 2x the airflow of whatI have now)

I think this chip might have 2750 in her on air now :) no complaints here

Dmytry
10-15-2004, 07:14 PM
Hey could you answer this: Is it safe to take off the IHS? I hear the cores are fragile. I don't want to kill my CPU. I'm using the venus 12 (very heavy heatsink).

WildKard
10-15-2004, 07:18 PM
Like anything, its ok if youre careful :)

Just take your time and dont be careless and youll be ok

aoc007
10-15-2004, 08:33 PM
Anybody know anything about removing the P4 IHS? I have a northwood c.

Perc
10-15-2004, 08:59 PM
Anybody know anything about removing the P4 IHS? I have a northwood c.


as long as its not MO stepping you should be fine. i ruined one it was a 2.4c MO and the ICh was glued to the core and i wound up shatering the core in like 600000 difernt pieces :( went from the mail box to the trash in 20 mins.... good luck take your time.

peace perc,

aoc007
10-15-2004, 09:10 PM
Mines a D1, anybody know anything about them, also would it crush easily when mounting a vapo ls to it?

reject
10-15-2004, 09:18 PM
well i got a new 3000+ today from rma, so ill try this.
if they both suck then ill remove the ihs off the old one

Liquid3D
10-20-2004, 10:40 PM
Anybody know anything about removing the P4 IHS? I have a northwood c.

I've removed two Northwood IHS's and had no problem. Northwoods manufactured after 12/03 may have been epoxied. However; if your not watercooling it's completely a waste of time, as only the smaller footprint of the waterbock removes heat by isolating impingement on the core. Also Aircoolers such as Thermalright or other aftermarket heatsinks use standoff's to ensure the heatsink base only tightens down so far. Once the IHS is removed your unable to tighten down the heatsink so it makes solid contact onto the exposed core. Once I tried booting up only to find the paste hadn't even been disturbed by the heatsink. I filed down the stand-offs removing the same amount of material to match the thickness of the IHS (about a mm). Northwood

The 2c to 4C drop in temps really isn't worth the potential damage, and there's simply more effective ways to drop temps then nit-picking at your Processor.

aoc007
10-20-2004, 10:45 PM
I'll be using a vapo LS, but mine was manufactured in january of this year so I wont mess with it.

hakme2deth
10-23-2004, 04:53 PM
With all of those IHS removed, has anyone thought to look at changing the multipliers with the exposed links?

(or can this be done somewhere else -excluding clockgen software)

Liquid3D
10-24-2004, 05:05 PM
Great idea and welcome, but the multiplers are open in most BIOS's

reject
10-25-2004, 06:36 AM
i think he means upwards

arj
10-25-2004, 08:23 AM
Got myself a 3000+ S939 2 days ago, cooled it with a DD TDX block. At 290X9, 2.61Ghz, 1.68v (cpu-z), the full load temp was 55 degrees. After I removed the IHS, the full load temp shot up towards 80 degrees! Tried resetting the block a few times but keep getting sucky temps.

After that I applied some AS5 onto the core, popped back on the IHS (didn't glue it, just place it back on the proc), the full load temp dropped 3 degrees! Before Prime would fail in 90 minutes but today passed 12 hours at the same speed and settings!

Will try to fiddle again with a naked proc and the block when I have the time.

reject
10-26-2004, 05:38 AM
i think i might try it this weekend but im a bit scared about my hs not fitting

Liquid3D
10-26-2004, 08:01 PM
Got myself a 3000+ S939 2 days ago, cooled it with a DD TDX block. At 290X9, 2.61Ghz, 1.68v (cpu-z), the full load temp was 55 degrees. After I removed the IHS, the full load temp shot up towards 80 degrees! Tried resetting the block a few times but keep getting sucky temps.

After that I applied some AS5 onto the core, popped back on the IHS (didn't glue it, just place it back on the proc), the full load temp dropped 3 degrees! Before Prime would fail in 90 minutes but today passed 12 hours at the same speed and settings!

Will try to fiddle again with a naked proc and the block when I have the time.

That I find to be odd? Not to doubt your finding's, it's just that the TDX has a verty small foot-print, and i've found it to be ideally suited for processor's with their IHS's removed. In fact I feel the AMD A64 IHS is so massive (larger then the PIV) that the TDX isn't the best block for the job. I bet you can see the edges of the IHS protruding from beneath the edges of the TDX. And remember that "cup" impingement zone only occupies about 25% of the total block's chamber. You were using through-board mounting correct? It seems as if something either prevented the TDX from making proper contact, amost as f there were stand-offs or something? I don't know what the S-939 socket looks like close-up, but I belaive most DD blocks rely on through-board mounting. Your not using mounting hardware which clamps down into the plastic retention bracket are you? What may happen is that the chip's core simply doesn't extrude high enough to clear the socket. Then the TDX would be tightend down onto the socket, and not so much the CPU. It may even be compressing the thermal paste, tricking you into believing it's making contact with the processor. Can you take a close up photo at an angle of the CPU locked into the socket with out it's IHS? This would give an indication if it's not high enough withot it's IHS to make full contact with the block.

saaya
10-26-2004, 08:16 PM
i removed the ihs of my pentium 3 tualatin 1.3ghz 2 weeks ago :D

all i can say is:

STAY AWAY FROM RAZOR BLADES!
they only scratch the package and bend and break off etc etc... only caused troubles for me.

go to a farmacy and ask for a scalpel :)
that should do the job perfectly :)

Dani
10-27-2004, 07:37 AM
all i can say is:

STAY AWAY FROM RAZOR BLADES!
they only scratch the package and bend and break off etc etc... only caused troubles for me.

No, it's the best way with razor blade :D
A64 3200+ Naked (http://koti.mbnet.fi/dani69/DFI%20nForce3%20250GB/A64%203200+%20ilman%20HS.JPG)

hakme2deth
10-27-2004, 01:31 PM
i removed the ihs of my pentium 3 tualatin 1.3ghz 2 weeks ago :D

all i can say is:

STAY AWAY FROM RAZOR BLADES!
they only scratch the package and bend and break off etc etc... only caused troubles for me.

go to a farmacy and ask for a scalpel :)
that should do the job perfectly :)

/joke mode on

Perhaps it should be made clear which type of razor....

This...http://www.premiumknives.com/knifefiles/Colonel_Conk_Shaving_Products/Mercur_Soligen_Safety_Razor_198_small.jpg is wrong

These... http://www.americancuttingedge.com/ACE%20Product%20Photos/Single%20Edge%20Blades.JPG Are right!

/joke mode off

:p:

saaya
10-27-2004, 02:22 PM
for me a razor blade worked bad... my scalpel worked perfectly... maybe the razor blade i used was too thin, it was bending all the time..

icywater
10-28-2004, 05:55 AM
I just removed my IHS, it is fairly easy with a raror blade. The temp drop between 4-10 Degrees.

Perc
10-28-2004, 03:36 PM
anyone want to sell me thier ICh that they ripped off thier cpu? im in need of one....

thx perc,

mikead_99
10-30-2004, 10:10 PM
Well this can only get better.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res6otqr/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/dscn0712.jpg

Exactly what I was hoping to find under there. :)
Unfortunately I won't have any results real quick. Still have to mod the prommie bracket and well, tomorrow is football day you know. I will post back to give my results in a couple days though when I have it done.

Perc, if I'm happy with the results, I'll shoot you a pm to get your address so I can send you my spreader. Your shared experience with the topless chip/DFI LP UT/prommie bracket mod will save me a lot of time in shaving bracket, checking contact. At least now I can shave it pretty close before I take a fit check. :toast:

mikead_99
11-02-2004, 10:03 AM
Well, it'd be great to tell you how well this all worked out, but my freakin' LP UT died on me. After all that work. I thought it must be the chip, or even though it looked like good evap contact, maybe that, but nope, it's the board. In my troubleshooting I put the spreader back on, used the retail cooler, switched to my 8KDA3J, and booted fine. Went back to the DFI, nothing. No idea wtf, but don't even get to post. Tried 1 RAM stick, clear CMOS, etc. Since I hate the Epox, and won't spend for another s754 board at this point in time, I guess my upgrade to s939 just got bumped up a few months. I'd love to give a temp compare after getting those bubbles under the IHS gone, but all my baseline temps were taken off the DFI board, although IIRC, even with the spreader back on, I'm around 10C cooler then I remember on the Epox. 3700+ already spoken for by a friend, with only air, but I'll post back if he gets any more out of it then I could on air.

NonProphets
11-02-2004, 11:09 AM
Hey guys, this is my first post, and I'm in need of some help. I removed the IHS and figured out that the heatsink doesnt make contact with the heatsink. So I go ahead and silicone the IHS back up with the processor, just to find out that I have killed my cpu. I need to know what was that black rubbery stuff AMD used to glue the IHS to the processor, so I can RMA it. Thanks.

mikead_99
11-02-2004, 12:10 PM
Shouldn't you just throw it away since you killed it?

saaya
11-02-2004, 12:40 PM
Hey guys, this is my first post, and I'm in need of some help. I removed the IHS and figured out that the heatsink doesnt make contact with the heatsink. So I go ahead and silicone the IHS back up with the processor, just to find out that I have killed my cpu. I need to know what was that black rubbery stuff AMD used to glue the IHS to the processor, so I can RMA it. Thanks.

welcome to XtremeSystem :toast:

please read the forum rules (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/announcement.php?f=120)

11. The management of this Forum does not condone theft, trading in stolen property, fraudulent return of merchandise, or the aiding and abetting of those who do. Any such discussions regarding stolen property or fraudulent returns will be dealt with swiftly, and the offending member risks complete loss of membership privileges in our Forums.

luisp22
11-04-2004, 10:20 AM
Hi. i received today my A64 3500+ " NewCastle", cananyone tell me if he is good for OC or should i make a change?

saaya
11-14-2004, 01:25 AM
if its 939 then get a winchester! if its 754 then keep it... maybe test it first and sell it if you dont like it.

luisp22
11-14-2004, 03:19 AM
well i think its good overclocker.. i have now 2700MHz :)

Perc
11-14-2004, 05:08 AM
Well, it'd be great to tell you how well this all worked out, but my freakin' LP UT died on me. After all that work. I thought it must be the chip, or even though it looked like good evap contact, maybe that, but nope, it's the board. In my troubleshooting I put the spreader back on, used the retail cooler, switched to my 8KDA3J, and booted fine. Went back to the DFI, nothing. No idea wtf, but don't even get to post. Tried 1 RAM stick, clear CMOS, etc. Since I hate the Epox, and won't spend for another s754 board at this point in time, I guess my upgrade to s939 just got bumped up a few months. I'd love to give a temp compare after getting those bubbles under the IHS gone, but all my baseline temps were taken off the DFI board, although IIRC, even with the spreader back on, I'm around 10C cooler then I remember on the Epox. 3700+ already spoken for by a friend, with only air, but I'll post back if he gets any more out of it then I could on air.

DUDE!! that is exactly what happen to me with this dammed DTR3400 and DFI mb! i had shaved the bracket down like i showed you and was 100% sure i had great contact but after like a day or two of running it like that i was in the bios and was setting some memory timmings i hit exit and save and poof nothing never booted again??? im just now getting the dran dfi back from rma and man wtf? that is why i needed a ICh cause im not going thru this again. fugger was kind enough to send me one he had ripped off his 2800 chip so now i have it all glued on my 3400DTR chip and im ready to try this again :) we should make a thread called "putting the ICh back on :) "

peace perc,

saaya
11-14-2004, 06:36 AM
well i think its good overclocker.. i have now 2700MHz :)

yes, thats a very good ocer :)

IvanAndreevich
11-14-2004, 01:00 PM
My Newcastle can only run 2.4 Ghz @ 1.7V. Temps are like 43 degrees load with uber watercooling. Worth taking it off?

Joe Camel
11-17-2004, 01:07 PM
i (tried) to read every post/page but havent seen anything on any winchester IHS's...
anybody tried on a 3500+ (939) winnie yet?

i know, i know:
(NO Joe, why dont YOU try it and tell us :stick: )

Liquid3D
11-17-2004, 06:06 PM
My co-worker at Legit Reviews has reviewed this CPU recently; http://www.legitreviews.com/article.php?aid=118

conrad.maranan
11-17-2004, 07:07 PM
i (tried) to read every post/page but havent seen anything on any winchester IHS's...
anybody tried on a 3500+ (939) winnie yet?

i know, i know:
(NO Joe, why dont YOU try it and tell us :stick: )
I actually gave it some thought when I was plugging my 939 back into my Neo2 this morning. I'll probably do it when I pick up a new heatsink next week.

Joe Camel
11-17-2004, 08:09 PM
cool :cool:

i was just thinking that this new 90nm core might be a little easier to dammage than the monster sized 130nm 64 cores...but then agan we've worked with similar (sized) cores all this time and you dont hear about A LOT of chipped/cracked pallys, Tbreds or Bartons.

GOOD LUCK conrad.maranan

mad mikee
11-18-2004, 07:29 AM
Tried on my 3200 and got a degree extra so far.

IvanAndreevich
11-18-2004, 05:05 PM
mad mikee
Taking the IHS off on 90 nm only yielded you 1C?!

CrazyXP1700
11-19-2004, 11:00 AM
mad mikee... you got any pics of it?

funkflix
11-20-2004, 01:27 AM
Hi

I can't go any higher before, then 2800MHz doesnt matter how much Volts!
Now i'm benchstable on 2930 MHz @ 1,66V :D

Gives me 6 - 8 °C under load!

burnhead
11-20-2004, 02:06 AM
hey...how fragile are the cores? how far can i go to screw my watercooler on it? until the screws are tighter than tight or whatever??

what about the idea of taking this little piece of metal from 3,5" disk instead of the razor blade?

krampak
11-20-2004, 02:13 AM
Does anybody removed the IHS of a FX-55?

=[PULSAR]=
11-20-2004, 02:21 AM
GravediggA what kind of cooling are you running?

funkflix
11-20-2004, 03:27 AM
Just normal Watercooling! :)

burnhead
11-20-2004, 07:26 AM
GravediggA, how tight have you screwed your watercooler to the cpu?? btw. translate your sig into englsih, my friend... i guess not everybody understands german... :banana:

funkflix
11-21-2004, 07:02 AM
Screwed it so hard as it goes.



Lol! Da sind gerade mal 2 deutsche Wörter drin.. Punkte u. einstellbar,
das werden die Leutz hier gerade noch überleben.

saaya
11-21-2004, 02:30 PM
Does anybody removed the IHS of a FX-55?
its just a normal clawhammer core, ´there are many posts of clawhammers without ihs in this very thread :D

and about the nekked winchester, WE WANT PICS! :D

so 6-8°C lower load temps with the winnchester without ihs? :slobber:

please keep it in english :P

IvanAndreevich
11-21-2004, 05:58 PM
>>so 6-8°C lower load temps with the winnchester without ihs?
That is what I would expect - MORE temp drops as opposed to the 0.13 cores.

funkflix
11-22-2004, 04:15 AM
Yes! My Loadtemp was ~ 50°C before and now it is 42-43°C! :)

p4z1f1st
11-22-2004, 04:41 AM
btw:

http://www.8ung.at/dresign/winchestercore.jpg

funkflix
11-22-2004, 04:54 AM
U should search for an new Webspace m8! Most of ur links in the last 2 weeks
won't work! ;)

Edit: Yeah, after 2 min watching this thread i see 1 cm of ur pic! :D

burnhead
11-22-2004, 05:33 AM
Screwed it so hard as it goes.



Lol! Da sind gerade mal 2 deutsche Wörter drin.. Punkte u. einstellbar,
das werden die Leutz hier gerade noch überleben.

do you want to p´lay a trick on me? then the core will break!? or is it that what you did?

scheiß drauf, hast recht, die wern das schon verstehen... sag mal, willste mich etz echt verarschen? die schrauben so fest anziehen wie möglich?!?! dann bricht doch der core, der soll ja bei A64ern besonders empfindlich sein!!

@ all others: is it true? screw the cooler on as tight as possible? and that WITHOUT IHS??!

funkflix
11-22-2004, 05:39 AM
No joke m8! Damn u really think i want that u break u core? :rolleyes:

As hard as it goes means, that i screwed it so far that the resistance, is
so hard, that u can't even do an half turn more on the screw without destroy
ur core! U must test that by urself, it's just a thing of feeling! :)

burnhead
11-22-2004, 06:16 AM
...just a thing of feeling! :stick: :rolleyes: :dammit: :bows: :explode: :bsod: :cord: :owned: ouhouhouh... i haven´t got a "good feeling"...

Huhn
11-22-2004, 06:21 AM
No joke m8! Damn u really think i want that u break u core? :rolleyes:

As hard as it goes means, that i screwed it so far that the resistance, is
so hard, that u can't even do an half turn more on the screw without destroy
ur core! U must test that by urself, it's just a thing of feeling! :)
just tighten the scrwes so the cooler has good contact.
[/ german]
ich glaube nciht dass viel druck viel hilft sprich dreh die schrauben so fest an bis der kühler fest sitzt und die ganze überschüssige wärmeleitpaste wegdrücken kann. wenn du dir nciht sicher bist ob du genügend druck ausübst: bau den kühler auf mit moderatem druck und schau auf die temps. nun dreh den kühler fester und achte wieder auf die temps. irgendwann ändern sich die temps auch nciht mehr ;)
[\german]

funkflix
11-22-2004, 06:30 AM
Got that experience from my XP-M and the 1A HV2! Temps rise if i lower
the pressure of the HV2! :)

reject
11-22-2004, 07:22 AM
IvanAndreevich
remount your wb i get that on quiet air (turned up loud) and 1.78v pretty stable

p4z1f1st
11-24-2004, 08:12 AM
U should search for an new Webspace m8! Most of ur links in the last 2 weeks
won't work! ;)

Edit: Yeah, after 2 min watching this thread i see 1 cm of ur pic! :D


give me a suggestion m8 ;)

i don't know y, but how u said, the last 2weeks my webspace is crappy slow....

IvanAndreevich
11-24-2004, 08:25 AM
reject
My chip is :banana::banana::banana::banana:, I think. Might require removing the IHS. But I am not sure I wanna :banana: with it, since I have a S939 board coming and going to be picking up a 90 nm chip very soon.

GravediggA
Excellent! Nice decrease in temp.
>>I can't go any higher before, then 2800MHz doesnt matter how much Volts!
>>Now i'm benchstable on 2930 MHz @ 1,66V
Wow that's a hell of an increase. I might have to do it when I get one :slobber:

p4z1f1st
Imageshack.us for hosting pics ;)

Liquid3D
11-30-2004, 01:44 AM
Be every careful tightening down those blocks boys/girls. This is why higher tension Springs are so essential. I've tried mounting blocks without springs and in my experience if your needing to tighten down ANY block using that much pressure, the problem resides in the four mounting bolts themselves, and/or rentention mechanism itself.

Here's what I do. When I mount a block, first I insert the four mounting screws/bolts, through the back of the motherboard flip the board over and screw down the surface tightening nuts, BUT without tightenting them. Leave them about 3-mm above the mobo surface. With the CPU in the socket (no paste) slide the waterblock down onto the four mounting screws/bolts which will then be equaly spread by the waterblock mounting hardware and postion the mounting screws equi-distant from each other. Slide the WB all the way down until it rests evenly on the CPU's surface. Then (holding the block firmly to the CPU surface taping it over the top may help) tighten down the surface fastening nuts which secure the mounting screws onto the board surface. This should require a few turns as you've slide the block over them already. With the block resting flatly on the CPU, tightening down those surface nuts willl ensure the four mounting screws/bolts will remain equi-distant, as guided by the waterblock mount.

It takes some time and nimble fingers to get used to this method, but recently I ran my P4 530 at 89C, panicking once I'd discovred this getting to the temp screen while setting up the BIOS. I shut-down the system to see that I'd tightened down those retention nuts so that they compressed the springs 100% and I'd placed a lot of pressure on the block believing it made solid contact, only to find the block hadn't even made contact with the thermal paste, which was applied in a dollup meaning it had about 1mm of height off the CPU!

The tension I did feel was the waterblock as it dropped down on the four mounting screws which were obviously spread further apart nearest the bottom (surface of the mobo). Even though those screws fit perfectly through the board's mounting holes, they still had enough play to make it impossible for the block to make contact with the CPU as it neared the bottom of the mounting screws/bolts. Feeling tension as the block was sliding down the screws (you'll feel the vibration as the block drags along with the screw threads) I thought I was ok because I'd applied so much pressure. I'd even stuck my head in the case to get as close as a look as I could to verify the Block was making contact. So visually inspecting it isn't always reliable.

This also happened to my friend JNAV89GT recently, who ran his PC for almost 10-minutes without the the waterblock making ANY contact with the CPU surface. As a result I'm writing an article in which I plan on running py P4 530 without an IHS! Thermal throttling and VID kick-in at a specific temp which is why everyone experiences the same 89C temp.

If the waterblock doesn't glide easily from the top of the mounting screw or bolts to the CPU's surface then the screws inserted through the back of the motherboard were secured off-center (inntheir perspective holes) by the mobo surface nuts.

By the way although somewhat off-topic try measuring the distance between Socket-775 mounting holes. Their just about equi-distant, meaning it's very difficult to decide how to rotate the block if you don't align the impingement area over the core under the IHS.

IvanAndreevich
12-20-2004, 03:56 PM
Right, so here I am - I picked up a 3000+ 90nm and struggling with it to get it stable @ 300 HTT. The temps I am getting is 50C with water. That's high after the ASUS which was showing 40C under same load on a Newcastle. However, obviously you can't compare temps going from board to board.

What kind of speed increases did winch users get from taking the IHS off again? 50 Mhz?

IvanAndreevich
12-23-2004, 10:32 PM
STUCK @ 297x9 = 2670. ANYBODY who has tried taking off an IHS on a Winchester? Do you think it will let me run 305x9 or so stable?

funkflix
12-24-2004, 12:19 AM
Whats ur Temps with 2670MHz 1,xxV ?

viccyran
12-24-2004, 12:21 AM
Right, so here I am - I picked up a 3000+ 90nm and struggling with it to get it stable @ 300 HTT. The temps I am getting is 50C with water. That's high after the ASUS which was showing 40C under same load on a Newcastle. However, obviously you can't compare temps going from board to board.

What kind of speed increases did winch users get from taking the IHS off again? 50 Mhz?
If that's the case, it can't hurt (- rmaing..), and as long as your HS can sink a bit lower due to lack of IHS, I say go for it. Your IHS might have bad contact with the core, which might be causing your temps to be higher on that chip.

funkflix
12-24-2004, 12:24 AM
Ok, by this Quote i see ur Temps. It's an issue of the most Winchester, that
they get unstable with ~ 52°C in overclocked condition! Try to remove the
IHS and u will get maybe an nice boost! My one stuck @ 2780 MHz with ~ 52°C
doesn't matter which voltage, after removing IHS ... U can see the results
in my Sig.! ;)

IvanAndreevich
12-24-2004, 12:25 AM
GravediggA
Just over 50C full load. I am not sure if this is high on this board, or low. My 3000+ @ 2.4 GHz @ 1.7V on ASUS K8N-E was getting just over 40C full load. Did you take off your IHS?

viccyran
I know it can't hurt, but there is always a chance something could go wrong. So, I don't see a point in doing it if it will NOT do anything for me. I don't care about a 5 degree drop in temp I care about, say, 50 mhz o/c increase. Yes, the waterblock will make good contact either way.

Anybody who actually took the IHS from their winch and noticed an o/c increase?

funkflix
12-24-2004, 12:26 AM
This rule is just for the Neo2. (temps)

viccyran
12-24-2004, 12:44 AM
GravediggA
Just over 50C full load. I am not sure if this is high on this board, or low. My 3000+ @ 2.4 GHz @ 1.7V on ASUS K8N-E was getting just over 40C full load. Did you take off your IHS?

viccyran
I know it can't hurt, but there is always a chance something could go wrong. So, I don't see a point in doing it if it will NOT do anything for me. I don't care about a 5 degree drop in temp I care about, say, 50 mhz o/c increase. Yes, the waterblock will make good contact either way.

Anybody who actually took the IHS from their winch and noticed an o/c increase?
It'll help, it gave me 50 on my older one. 5 degree drop = higher OC, mainly because winnies like lower temps, there's a point just like gravedigga said where if you're running too hot, doesn't matter what voltage you give it, it won't budge. I might remove my IHS again.. but meh.. making contact with my water block with the neo2 is a biznay.

IvanAndreevich
12-24-2004, 01:45 AM
GravediggA
Excellent info from ya, thanks. Can you tell me how many MHz removing the IHS give you? Also, if the CPU temperature is below 50, CPU voltage helps once again? I know it doesn't help me anymore :(

viccyran
Helped you gain how many MHz? I want to see some specific numbers :toast:

BTW, about the load temps.. try this -
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=644170#post644170
:)

funkflix
12-24-2004, 01:57 AM
after removing IHS ... U can see the results in my Sig.

;) From 50 - 150MHz.

IvanAndreevich
12-24-2004, 09:28 AM
GravediggA
I can see your OVERALL result. But just tell me 1 number -
1) How many mhz did it run exactly BEFORE removing
2) I can see how much it runs NOW (nice, btw :) )

Man.. 150 is A LOT. Even 50 is pretty good.

BTW, there was a link @ the begging of this thread, but it changed. The new link a GOOD GUIDE is -
http://www.burn-it.dk/index.php?page=forum_read.php&post_nr=375

IvanAndreevich
12-24-2004, 03:23 PM
Ok I did it -
http://img133.exs.cx/img133/1853/winch3000nakedcore014cz.jpg
http://img133.exs.cx/img133/4570/winch3000ihs026sw.jpg
http://img133.exs.cx/img133/1771/winch3000nakedcore036zt.jpg
http://img133.exs.cx/img133/175/winch3000cutting8jt.jpg

Temp down 7-8 degrees under load! Testing overclock right now. At first it was hard because I took a modelling blade which was waaay too thick. The thin blade I ended up using made it 100 times easier. I was easily done in 5 minutes. I bent a bunch of pins, so I had to bend them back.

So around 50 MHz gain from me :toast: Not much, but FREE

funkflix
12-25-2004, 07:09 AM
Nice work! :D

Bevor removing my Winchester stucks @ ~2790 MHz, doesn't metter how
much voltage!

IvanAndreevich
12-25-2004, 12:18 PM
Did anybody make a keychain out of the IHS?

funkflix
12-25-2004, 12:22 PM
Me not! :D

JohnFish
01-18-2005, 05:18 PM
I suppose that in case we fail we can make the whole processor a keychain. :P

Eversor
01-21-2005, 01:49 PM
Ok, i wanna take the IHS out of my 2800+, it's stuck at 2600MHz with 1.85v, and i want more!!

The problem is i can't get a razor blade. Where's the most common place to get one? A barber shop?

regards

Eversor
01-21-2005, 05:21 PM
Took the blade of a gillete and removed the ihs with it.
The result is the board will turn off almost imediatly as i turn it on. But the cpu looks fine! The core isn´t crushed, and i didn´t touched any of the ic´s.

If i take the cpu out the board will stay on.

Now what?!?

Zeus
01-22-2005, 02:38 AM
Very likely you have bad contact.
Try to reseat your heatsink and make sure it isnt sitting on the retention bracket.

Eversor
01-22-2005, 07:52 AM
Very likely you have bad contact.
Try to reseat your heatsink and make sure it isnt sitting on the retention bracket.

I´m using a asetek antartica. And it has proper contact because the paste is spreading evenly.

Think i´ll buy a used cpu to see if it´s cpu fault, but it´s strange cause it doesn´t seem damaged.

IvanAndreevich
02-10-2005, 12:50 AM
Please see attached. It carries a WARNING :stick:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=24349

funkflix
02-10-2005, 03:20 AM
OMFG! :stick:

A_X
02-10-2005, 11:07 AM
Some ppl... Just be a little carefull... It's really not that dangerous...

But even so I still would not recommend removing it...

Shaotai
02-15-2005, 07:35 AM
Just thought I would post up my experiences...

I just upgraded to the DFI Ultra-D from an MSI K8N Neo2. With the MSI, I was running at 2.5~2.6Ghz stable for everyday use. So swap my stuff over to the DFI, got a new vid card. Everything worked fine at default voltages and up to 250htt. Wanted to go higher, (and I knew I could) so I pushed the voltage up to 1.5. But for some reason, my temps were idling at 50C and higher.. I'd try to boot into windows and the machine would shut down hard. Watching the temps in the bios, and it went as high as 80C before shutting down hard again!! I must have reapplied my AS5 10 times, trying to figure out what the heck was causing my temps to be so high... Nothing worked. (I'm no nobbie either... ;))
So I figured I'd strip my chip of it's cover and go nude.
Followed the directions on taking the IHS off, took my time and 5 mins later, it was off with no damage. Cleaned off the termal paste that was on there, made sure my HS would fit without making any mods,(XP-90) and put it all back togeter. Pushing the volts up and it was idling at less that 30C. Load temps never go over 42C. Played with it an hour and I'm now sitting pretty at 2.7Ghz stable!! Here's my setup:
DFI Ultra-D 2.09 bios
Winnie 3000+ 300x9 @1.55v 2.7Ghz!
2x256 Corsair XMS (very old BH-6) @ 2-2-2-2-7 245FSB @ 3.3v.
ATi X800 XT PCI-e
misc....

It was a totally worthwhile mod for me. Still haven't figured out why my temps were high and killing my system when the IHS was still on. But after I removed the IHS, everything is back to "normal" and working better than ever.

IvanAndreevich
03-08-2005, 05:37 PM
Awesome - your chip is just like mine Shaotai :)

nOx34
04-02-2005, 08:35 PM
Ok that's it i'm doing it . I'm getting crazy load temps with my WC setup ( 50°c + ) at only 1.55v .... and 2.6ghz max , no matter what voltage... Let's hope I dont keel the sucka :stick: :slap:

nfm
04-02-2005, 11:25 PM
yo yo ocers, new member :) Say Hi

Woah, I'm impressed with temp. results! :toast: If I remove IHS, can I get rid of old thermal paste that came with cpu, apply AS5 and put IHS back together? Will IHS get glued back together? I got a TT Venus12 cooler, very heavy, will removal of IHS work? From what can I see, IHS is about 0.5cm thick, with this, will there be a good contact with clever pushed to max on my heatsink?

Take care ocers

Esmein
04-03-2005, 06:40 PM
I'm wondering why dont you just sand off a mm from the IHS. Its getting lap and the heat travels a mm less. Maybe its worth trying.
And aswell it wont be as fragile as with removing the IHS.

sandybeach
04-03-2005, 06:45 PM
I hope you know the TIM amd uses is used to FILL VOIDS in the imperfections of the core..

They use a chalky like TIM that is alot better than AS5/Ceramic for large voids "dips and so on" to level the surface of the core itself ;)

thats why some see no gains or "LOOSE" clocks from removing th IHS..

ones that will gain are ones that have perfectly flat cores so the as5 or ceramic does its job awsome..

Trust me it can "MAKE" a cpu or it can "BREAK" a cpu's max clocks. ;)

If it clocks worse you can't jsut add the IHS back on as you dont have the TIM AMD uses ;)

Esmein
04-03-2005, 06:47 PM
I hope you know the TIM amd uses is used to FILL VOIDS in the imperfections of the core..

They use a chalky like TIM that is alot better than AS5/Ceramic for large voids "dips and so on" to level the surface of the core itself ;)

thats why some see no gains or "LOOSE" clocks from removing th IHS..

ones that will gain are ones that have perfectly flat cores so the as5 or ceramic does its job awsome..

Trust me it can "MAKE" a cpu or it can "BREAK" a cpu's max clocks. ;)

If it clocks worse you can't jsut add the IHS back on as you dont have the TIM AMD uses ;)


There are not supposed to be any imperfections on core(maybe there still are) as the cpu manufacturers "grow" diamond on it, and its flat like hell :)

Maybe the differences are all depending on the mood of master Gong Ciao Peng while puting(putting?) on the IHS :D

sandybeach
04-03-2005, 06:53 PM
I can say from exp. that I have a machined to .0001 inch copper sink and on a few of my fx/a64 chips after you remove it you see the voids "spots" left on the core and HS from the viods ;)

the ones that clock highest and take the voltage and don't change temps quickly under load have the perfectly flat cores no voids ;)

Ive used about 30+ a64 chips almost "ALL" the IHS has came off, hehe

the 90nm winnys have the closet to void free cores :)

saaya
04-03-2005, 06:56 PM
I can say from exp. that I have a machined to .0001 inch copper sink and on a few of my fx/a64 chips after you remove it you see the voids "spots" left on the core and HS from the viods ;)

the ones that clock highest and take the voltage and don't change temps quickly under load have the perfectly flat cores no voids ;)

Ive used about 30+ a64 chips almost "ALL" the IHS has came off, hehe

the 90nm winnys have the closet to void free cores :)

what do you mean with void free cores?
and the chips that change the temps under load slower than the ones that jump up higher are better ocers? do you think the cpus that get a lot higher temps all the sudden when put under load have bad contact with the ihs and thats why the temps go up so fast?

Esmein
04-03-2005, 07:06 PM
I can say from exp. that I have a machined to .0001 inch copper sink and on a few of my fx/a64 chips after you remove it you see the voids "spots" left on the core and HS from the viods ;)

the ones that clock highest and take the voltage and don't change temps quickly under load have the perfectly flat cores no voids ;)

Ive used about 30+ a64 chips almost "ALL" the IHS has came off, hehe

the 90nm winnys have the closet to void free cores :)


Sanding the die with toothpaste ?...

nOx34
04-03-2005, 07:34 PM
Well I cielled at 2.6ghz before ..no matter the volts

Now

http://199.202.73.113/mb/0365578/IHS/IHS_P95.JPG

I STILL don't understand why my load temps are so fricking high...47°c !
Set vCore to 1.225 + 133%.

I'll check my WW for clogging .

conrad.maranan
04-03-2005, 07:51 PM
I STILL don't understand why my load temps are so fricking high...47°c !
Set vCore to 1.225 + 133%.

I'll check my WW for clogging .
1.225V + 133% = 1.63V
47C at load is far from high for air cooling. If you're checking temperatures with a software application, the readings are inaccurate anyway. ;)

nOx34
04-03-2005, 08:50 PM
1.225V + 133% = 1.63V
47C at load is far from high for air cooling. If you're checking temperatures with a software application, the readings are inaccurate anyway. ;)

I'm watercooled , see sig :p:

conrad.maranan
04-03-2005, 09:26 PM
Well, if you're relying on a software-based application to check your temperature readings, you might be better off just taking a guess. I recommend a CompuNurse Advanced digital thermometer. They usually run for less than $20. :)

nOx34
04-03-2005, 10:09 PM
Well, if you're relying on a software-based application to check your temperature readings, you might be better off just taking a guess. I recommend a CompuNurse Advanced digital thermometer. They usually run for less than $20. :)

I'll chek it out thanks buddy :toast:

conrad.maranan
04-03-2005, 10:22 PM
Here's a link (http://www.frozencpu.com/tmp-09.html) to the unit that I'm talking about.

nOx34
04-05-2005, 01:57 PM
Update , 2.7ghz broken . Stable

http://199.202.73.113/mb/0365578/IHS/IHS_P95_2.JPG

This is great ! :banana:

Esmein
04-09-2005, 05:53 PM
Update , 2.7ghz broken . Stable

http://199.202.73.113/mb/0365578/IHS/IHS_P95_2.JPG

This is great ! :banana:
If I could say that its mine, Mmmmm... I would be a happy overclocker :D

killingspreez
04-10-2005, 11:05 AM
Hi,
i've read every thread in this forum which is about this topic.
but i still miss few facts.

1) is there anything (exept the deepth of the cut) that i should take care of?
2) is there really an improvement of the clockspeed or "just" the temp?

i wanted to know these things before i destroy my a64 :D
now it's win/game/3d stable at 2700mhz but not prime95 stable!
would it be reallistic to expect an improvement of at least 50mhz?
some said the gained 150mhz! that's an miracle, isn't it?

and sorry for this thread. but i couldn't find these answers in other threads.

mfg

Holst
04-10-2005, 11:16 AM
The most important thing is not to scratch the surface of the chip with the knife.

I did read about people using dental floss rather than a knife. (I dont remember where)

You should get some sort of an overclock increase, its hard to say how much. It depends on how "bad" the contact is with your IHS.

On some motherboards the highest part of the CPU socket is higher than the CPU core so you might need to sand the socket down a bit to get a good contact.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

killingspreez
04-10-2005, 11:24 AM
thank's
i think the contact won't be a problem cuz i use an adjustable watercooling without this strange rentation module...

mfg

brandinb
04-10-2005, 11:44 AM
im going to do the same thing as soon as a venice replacement is available just in case hehe good luck and report on your findings
________
MEDICAL CANNABIS (http://medicalmarijuana.us/)

killingspreez
04-10-2005, 11:56 AM
yap
i'll keep you informed!

cu good n8

mfg

Holst
04-10-2005, 11:56 AM
thank's
i think the contact won't be a problem cuz i use an adjustable watercooling without this strange rentation module...

mfg

I dont think you understand me.

The top of the SOCKET might be higher than the core.

The white bit that holds the cam end of the ZIF socket lever.

This is not a problem on all boards, but it was on my DFI UT and ive read of similar problems on other boards, ic 939 ones.

The height difference is only a faraction of a mm but it does affect the mount.

killingspreez
04-11-2005, 04:16 AM
umm now i understand......i'll have a look at the weekend!
thx 4 advice!

mfg

FireDragon
04-11-2005, 10:13 AM
It will drop your temps by about 8-12 deg c...you might see a clock increase but it is not set in stone...i my self never say a temp drop....

JuanFlaiter
04-11-2005, 12:19 PM
Awesome - your chip is just like mine Shaotai :)

Did you put back the IHS? Or did you just leave it naked?

Is the core too fragil? Im not worried on messing it up doing the mod, but im worried of braking the core installing my waterblock.

Jamo
04-11-2005, 01:26 PM
It will drop your temps by about 8-12 deg c

i think thats a little optimistic, i havnt seen anyone achieve such drops yet, maybe 3 - 5*C at the most

c7775
04-11-2005, 02:43 PM
i think thats a little optimistic, i havnt seen anyone achieve such drops yet, maybe 3 - 5*C at the most
ive seen a temp drop of 6C so about that much :woot:

cadaveca
04-11-2005, 02:57 PM
i think thats a little optimistic, i havnt seen anyone achieve such drops yet, maybe 3 - 5*C at the most


i got 10c. But i knew i would, as voltage increases @ cpu did not increase water temps. :fact:

killingspreez
04-13-2005, 10:29 AM
hi all
i've made it!
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/killingspreez-yyyyyyy.JPG
no troubles at all. it was a little bit tricky but it is possible to do!

well now the default-v-core looks quiet well :)
http://server3.uploadit.org/files/killingspreez-newvolt.JPG

tomorrow i'll go for the 27xx mhz i hope!

mfg and thx 4 advices! the razorblade was really helpfull!

ozzimark
04-13-2005, 12:08 PM
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=851884
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=857220
that was a while ago.

also, here's what my core looks like now, after lapping it :D
http://www.freewebs.com/ozzimark/core.JPG

coop
04-14-2005, 01:41 AM
wow, how much did you take off? also, that origami swan on your desk, I have two. About three years apart. :)

reject
04-14-2005, 03:47 AM
why did u lap it, was there a scratch?

killingspreez
04-14-2005, 03:58 AM
my core isn't very even, too.
but 2730mhz prime/pistable is okay.........i hope the cooler fully touches the DIE.
-_-

mfg

mongoled
04-14-2005, 06:01 AM
Nice one ozzimark, tht takes some balls

:D

My 2.7G chip has died after a bios flash and I have a new chip with me now, tis a 0502 BPMW one and is currently at a prime stable ceiling of 2650mhz with 1.73 volts, watercooled.

The temps are arnd 43-45C full load, and im thinking of taking the shim off again, only problem is if im unfortunate enuff to kill another CPU with bios flash I may be able to RMA it, by removing the shim I cant.

So the question is, (and I should know the answer too this) should I take the shim off this new CPU? Will the temp drops equte to an increase overclk.

I just wished amd had designed the shim to have gaps in the side, so tht the heat building up within the shim would have an outlet to escape!!! I also thought it may be possible to pass a tiny tube between the gap in the shim (yup as u peeps know there is a small gap in the center on one of the shims sides) so tht air may be passed down here cooling the core. Very difficult or improbable to do but would be an idea if someone had the right tools

mong

ozzimark
04-14-2005, 10:01 AM
wow, how much did you take off? also, that origami swan on your desk, I have two. About three years apart. :)
eh, probably like 1/4 millimeter? not much

i did it cause the core was really rounded. i could place it die down and spin it like a top. plus, my heatsink was rocking whenever i bumped into it. i was honestly surprised at how.. un-flat it was. so i took a few passes of 1000grit then a couple more at 2000 to try to get everything flattened out. sadly i was afraid to use water, so the surface isn't terribly shiny when it's cleaned off... though it seemed to work pretty well after it was flattened out. :toast:


disclaimer: if you do this too, don't be surprised if you kill your cpu. i was very lucky

coop
04-14-2005, 11:31 AM
That is what was a little startling was the color. Not that I knew if they were polished like an XP or not. I have seen pictures of what is inside of the chip, but do not know where all of the components are located in there. Like how far down, are they in the center or torward the bottom or layered throughout. I'm glad your works, have you been able to see any difference yet. This also brings up something I've thought about but never to the point of doing any research. Inside of a ram chip, what is in there? Is it just material or is there actual structured construction of columns and rows. All the legs on the sides, do they actually connect to a column? Is the chip separated into columns and rows or does the electrons just behave in a manner that keeps everything separated, stored, what determines the various rows?

killingspreez
04-15-2005, 03:14 AM
so at the end i can#t report a huge gain of mhz!
now i'm able to clock 30mhz higher....not much but the temps/voltages dropped a lot!
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/killingspreez-newclock.JPG

mfg

motoolfan
04-15-2005, 04:34 AM
I was able to get another 100 mhz with same volts and same temps. I should be able to get higher, with better cooling.

http://img20.echo.cx/img20/6642/28edit8ni.th.jpg (http://img20.echo.cx/my.php?image=28edit8ni.jpg)

mongoled
04-16-2005, 06:07 AM
Ive gone and done something i said i wouldnt do and tht is take the shim off

:blink:

bye bye warrenty, 2.65ghz just was not stable enuff for my liking, temps were causing the CPU to crash, removing the shim has enabled me to run 2700mhz with 1.75volts, not quite prime95 stable, but seems stable enuff for all the other stress test programs and games.

My temps have also gone down in respect to clockspeed and voltage. I can am now running full load (S&M) 38C, prime dosent go over 37C, and all this with my fans at 5V

:)

I just wish AMD sold some chips without a shim, so we could still have the warrenty, hehehee, 100mhz extra is nothing to laugh at!!

Just hope i dont end up killing this chip inadvertedly, needs to tide me over until Venice, can then shift it ebay or online forum, i know there are peeps out there who would like a shimless CPU, even without warrenty

IvanAndreevich
04-20-2005, 01:30 PM
JuanFlaiter
I left it off. My waterblock fits nicely on it. However, I sold that chip to a friend and when he brought his system to a shop to diagnose his mobo, the morons in there chipped the chip. Now it can only run stock :(

I am now running a 3200+ which does better than the 3000+ with the IHS off :) I would take it off for 2.8 GHz stable but I'll probably just go dual-core or Venice so I decided not to bother.

THunDA
04-21-2005, 09:42 AM
Ok..

Just read this whole thread and I think im taking my fx55 IHS off later..

I bought it from someone that has taken it off already and put it back on..

Right now im totally prime stable @ 275x10 with about 1.59vcore.. Temps are about 38c idle and 48-52c load running prime.. I can boot to windows alot higher (2900mhz or so.. but not totally stable.. ) 280x10 is stable with most benchies but not prime..

Im hoping for some more MHZ and mostly to lower the temps... I have a 3400 mobile on my 250gb with a slk948 also and im pretty confident in mounting the sink on it without issues since its basically the same size core and all..

Plus with the IHS off I can place my temp probe next to the core like im used to doing on my 3400m...

Well wish me luck and I'll post my results later as long as I dont chicken out..hehe..


edit..

Maybe I shouldnt have did a search about removing IHS's.... getting scared just thinking about it after reading some of the stories.. :eek:

Then again there was some success stories..

THunDA
04-21-2005, 05:14 PM
Whew.. Ok that was scary ..lol.. what a hell of a rush..hehe..

But its all working and im gona test it out tonight.. Ive been using MBM for temps and it seemed to already shave off about 5c and the AS5 isnt even broke in yet .. I also put a probe next to the core to test .. here are some pics.. :)

http://img250.echo.cx/img250/4563/picture002medium3xy.jpg

http://img250.echo.cx/img250/4040/picture004medium6vt.jpg

sandybeach
04-21-2005, 05:33 PM
I would have shipped it with it off if oyu wanted it that way ;)

Looks to me it was on there DAMM GOOD from the way the cermaic is spread :)

Good luck with the clocking and just rem to "FILE" the socket where you see the

"SOCKET 939" down if your sink doenst make perfect die contact..

call me if you have any questions :) :woot: :woot:

Disposibleteen
04-21-2005, 05:37 PM
nice, you planning on cleaning that up at all, kinda looks like poo but thats an aestitic issue not performance.

THunDA
04-21-2005, 05:42 PM
I would have shipped it with it off if oyu wanted it that way ;)

Looks to me it was on there DAMM GOOD from the way the cermaic is spread :)

Good luck with the clocking and just rem to "FILE" the socket where you see the

"SOCKET 939" down if your sink doenst make perfect die contact..

call me if you have any questions :) :woot: :woot:

Hey dude ..

Yes it was on there good....I checked the part of the socket and its all good.I read this whole thread today at work.. :)

Still testing it.. I had a raptor that died a slow death and was giving me much instablity and I didnt know that was it. But so far 275x10 is totally stable with whatever I do.. Gona be testing with my bh5 and a higher multi this week..

edit..

nice, you planning on cleaning that up at all, kinda looks like poo but thats an aestitic issue not performance.

I didnt bother cleaning it , maybe next time its off.. I was just happy it came off fine with no issues..


:banana:

Disposibleteen
04-21-2005, 05:44 PM
sounds like fun, keep us updated with results!

coop
04-21-2005, 06:53 PM
Are these cores made from the same material as the ones on mobile xp's. If so, without the IHS can they be handled treated the same. In other words no special precautions need to be taken as far as mounting water blocks and air coolers? I noticed a few post above someone mentioned chipping, and I did not know if these were more brittle/fragile.

sandybeach
04-21-2005, 07:06 PM
you can use huge force as with reg mobile chips just go down strait not at an angle.. Ive used coolers that weight upwards of 8lbs "4x 7700cu zalmans for reference", lol..

its when you dont go down strait you chip/crush the cores :)

VenuS
04-22-2005, 03:03 AM
Hi guys ! I read the whole thread and seems that i didn't payed attention on wich boards people were succeeded to remove the IHS and installed their HSF.

Can anyone confirm it on DFI NF4 Ultra,D,DR boards?
And maybe someone had a luck to use the Zalman CNPS-7000B HSF after removing IHS ?

Tnx everyone !

Disposibleteen
04-22-2005, 03:11 AM
if you are really worried about cracking/chipping the core just get some little sticky foam circles like the ones on the mobiles and put them on there. You can find them at any hardware store in the same section they sell cabinet hardware (knobs and handles and such)

mongoled
04-22-2005, 06:07 AM
if you are really worried about cracking/chipping the core just get some little sticky foam circles like the ones on the mobiles and put them on there. You can find them at any hardware store in the same section they sell cabinet hardware (knobs and handles and such)

Yup thats spot on, ive done exactly the same thing to my CPU and GPU :). Spongy material on each corner is the way to go, as well as along the small resistors, you dont want to damage those

;)


Whew.. Ok that was scary ..lol.. what a hell of a rush..hehe..
Heyup THunDA (from dfi-street??),

Good to see you had a successful dismount of the shim :). Takes great care and some *alls :), but once its off, dont drop your guard taking precautions, the cores do chip quite easily, so always be cautious

:)

mong

THunDA
04-22-2005, 06:27 AM
Heyup THunDA (from dfi-street??),

Good to see you had a successful dismount of the shim :). Takes great care and some *alls :), but once its off, dont drop your guard taking precautions, the cores do chip quite easily, so always be cautious

:)

mong

Yup thats me.. :)

Im not too worried about it because im used to mounting my other slk948 on the 3400 mobile chip thats on my 250gb.. Was just a little scarey taking it off.. I almost gave up when I started..lol..

After some testing last night the temps are definitly better..

Before.. idle 38c load 48-52c
After ... idle 33c load 43-44c

Also with the probe i placed next to the core it reads 32c idle and 40-41c load..

So it was well worth it for the temps.. :)

Ive been using the 30min test in OCCT .. And before the highest I could pass it was at 275x10 with about 1.59vcore.. Now after this its passing at 280x10.. This is also the highest it will pass when not using a high htt also..

Before prime would also error out in 3-5 min's at 280x10.. But after this it ran 4 hours last night before an error.. I know Sandybeach..hehe.. im not being one of them running prime all the time..lol.. just wanted to see if this changed anything.. It does pass all 3dmarks at 280x10 with no crashes at all.

This weekend im gona finally install some games and see how she does at 280x10..