DFI using 5v rail for ram not 24/7 stable? [Archive]

boostdfd3s

03-20-2005, 06:49 PM

I read something about this in the ATi mobo thread and figured id ask...

Someone posted about how the DFI is not 24/7 stable using the 5v rail for vdimm, and that DFI recommends using the 3.3v rail for everyday use. Is there any truth in this statement? Do we just need to actively cool that heatsink with a 40-60mm fan, or is it really really bad to run it like that? Reason i ask is i use BH-5, and i need the high volts and i dont know one person that runs at stock speeds 24/7. Why would DFI put that feature on their boards and claim great overclockability, but not allow that OC to stay functional and stable for more than a few hours?

Someone please say that its okay to run the ram off the 5v line with active cooling and be stable 24/7

-Zach

bachus_anonym

03-20-2005, 07:02 PM

I believe, that some might be concerned because of the heat generated by switching to 5v rail. But, we won't know for sure since this board has been in the market for such a short period of time.

I've been running my DFI NF4 with switched vdimm supply for over a week now @ 3.1v on my TCCD. I know what you're gonna say now :D - I was just too lazy to switch it back to 3.3v supply after I tested my BH-5.
I have 2 80mm fans is blowing around dimm sockets area and mosfets. It's being almost 4 days under continous, 100% LOAD, crunching D2OL ( like folding, if you're not familiar ;) ) and it's doing great so far.
Time will tell ;)

mcnbns

03-20-2005, 07:11 PM

I heat sink the mosfets of any mobos I get, and I recommend people do the same for their boards (if they don't come 'sinked), no matter the heat or lack of heat they think the mosfets generate. It probably won't hurt to cool them.

Having said that, it would be stupid of DFI to release a board with a 5V-fed VDIMM circuit that would burn itself out in 6 months.

[G.N.U.]Fragman

03-20-2005, 07:14 PM

is folding stressing your cpu enough to call it a stabletest???? i know even though CS 1.6 uses 100% usage it doesnt really stress the cpu a lot....(someone tried to tell me why, but got to technically) BUT hl.exe actually freezes pretty fast if the system isnt stable....and thats a pretty funny way to test :)

Ailleur

03-20-2005, 07:19 PM

You absolutely DO need to actively cool it when using the 5v rail, it gets burning hot after an hour of half life 2. As for long term stability, we ll be set the day boards start to go up in smoke!

bachus_anonym

03-20-2005, 07:21 PM

Fragman']is folding stressing your cpu enough to call it a stabletest????
I can tell you one thing :) I don't remember how it was with FAH client (folding). It's been a while since I have run it... BUT.

My DFI NF4 / Winnie 3200+ (Prime95 stable up to 2670MHz under current conditions) have been running @ 290x9=2610MHz DDR580 7-3-3-2.5-1T under 100% LOAD for 96hrs now. Before that I have it set to 293x9, same timmings on mems, same volts. D2OL client crushed after 21st hour ;)

You've got the answer now...

boostdfd3s

03-20-2005, 07:32 PM

Well it comes sinked...should i peel it off and apply AS5 and a fan? Or should i put some of these copper ramsinks to use with AS5 for even better cooling?

bachus_anonym

03-20-2005, 07:35 PM

Well it comes sinked...should i peel it off and apply AS5 and a fan? Or should i put some of these copper ramsinks to use with AS5 for even better cooling?
I don't think it's worth the effort... I'm not even sure if it's any easy to remove them at all...
Just put some fan in that area and you should be OK... No need for overkill ;)

boostdfd3s

03-20-2005, 07:36 PM

no need for overkill?! *looks around* i thought i was on XS.org ;)

bachus_anonym

03-20-2005, 07:37 PM

no need for overkill?! *looks around* i thought i was on XS.org ;)
:lol: If it's not neccesary then what's the point ???

boostdfd3s

03-20-2005, 07:42 PM

Well, ill pull the 40mm fans off my Super Talent memory cooler job since im replacing those with 60mm's, and do a push-pull setup on the mosfet, and then monitor the temps with my digidoc5+....finally get to use one more of the 35378353 channels, lol

mesyn191

03-20-2005, 07:59 PM

Been running my RAM off of the 5v line on the DFI board for about a week now and I've gotten no stability problems and that area doesn't even get very warm, of course I do have a 120mm fan pointed at that area though so I bet that helps...

boostdfd3s

03-20-2005, 08:09 PM

Has anyone had to RMA a board due to this yet? Have there been any statements from DFI or any fine print that states using the 5V line will void the warranty similar to the Abit secret Fatality bios?

EMC2

03-20-2005, 08:14 PM

--- Bachus ---

In general, define "necessary" ;) Lower temp = longer life...

--- boost ---

Don't look too close, someone may be gaining on you :p:

Just an FYI... the heatsinks used by DFI on the NF4 MBs are soldered to the MB... not easily removed. That having been said, with a fan blowing across the stock Vmem heatsink it stays relatively cool. But... it is XtremeSystems, so you might want to think about putting a prommy on that puppy :p: :lol:

bachus_anonym

03-20-2005, 08:14 PM

Have there been any statements from DFI or any fine print that states using the 5V line will void the warranty...
Are you serious now??? Why would that be if they put it there in the first place :rolleyes: ???

--- Bachus ---

In general, define "necessary" ;) Lower temp = longer life...

You seem not to know how much heat-tolerant mosfets are...

EMC2

03-20-2005, 08:24 PM

Most are 150C, some 175C... doesn't change the fact that cooler temps = longer MTBF :)

Revv23

03-20-2005, 08:33 PM

well i really hope this board lasts 25 years so im not going to run off the 5v... :p:

while im sure the life will be longer, the fets are made to run that hot, and as long as its stable its cool enough in my book to live until im done with (ive never had anything die from heat, only be unstable from it)

i mean, it just doesnt make sense to me for dfi to use mosfets that arent capable of running 24/7, sure its hotter, which is why dfi insists you cool them, but they shouldnt die from it.

EMC2

03-20-2005, 09:06 PM

:lol: Good one :) That's why I said "in general"... but run it with no cooling on the 5V rail for a week with Vmem set to 3V :p:

Didn't intend to imply the reg circuit would die from using stock HS and cooling with a fan bro :) Notice my comment that they run relatively cool with a fan as is. Just something about the word "necessary"...

bobmanfoo

03-20-2005, 09:10 PM

been running mine off the 5v at 3.4v since the day i got my board, no problems so far

Formann

03-21-2005, 01:58 AM

i mean, it just doesnt make sense to me for dfi to use mosfets that arent capable of running 24/7, sure its hotter, which is why dfi insists you cool them, but they shouldnt die from it.

I agree. Most likely the solder will come of before they die.

Had an old Technics amp a few years ago. With 2 PA-speakers AND a pair of Kirksaeter Hi-Fi speakers it got pretty hot. 3-4 Hours with Volume @ 70+% did the trick. Music went quiet and the red protect light went on. When I opened it the solder on the mosfets were gone and i could lift them rigt of the PBC.
Resoldered them and everything worked just fine :D

----

boostdfd3s: Applying AS5 to mosfets is a total waste of AS5 and your time. The amount of heat they produce per square inch is nothing compared to a CPU. In fact.. with a low-speed 80mm fan @ 5-7v over them, the sinks wouldn´t even be needed.

krille

03-21-2005, 04:21 AM

If your system is stable and smoke ain't coming out of your case - no worry. However, if you experience stability issues or insane temps you don't think are very healthy, you better switch back to 3.3v or put some active cooling over the mosfets.

Going by the 5v rail 24/7 is not recommended (without proper cooling), but it might work out just fine in your case (or with newer bios).

phobos

03-21-2005, 06:13 AM

I have only installed a 40mm fan over the DRAM mosfet and my system was stable for many days running DRAM at 3.6V. I'm at TCCD now and switched the jumpers back.

boostdfd3s

03-21-2005, 06:23 AM

alrighty then...looks like two 40mm fans will take care of it. Was thinking of more extreme measures after seeing the ATi board's watercooled mosfets. *shrug*

Revv23

03-21-2005, 07:27 AM

EMC2

03-21-2005, 08:11 PM

No worries bro :D "it" happens ;)

I really did get a good chuckle from the 25 year thing. :)

Peace :toast:

mdzcpa

03-21-2005, 08:55 PM

I've been running one of my DFI NF4 mobos at 3.4v since day one almost 4 weeks ago. No issues. Runs 24/7. Just a small fan on the corner is fine.

krille

03-22-2005, 03:31 AM

Excellent! (However shortening the mobos life and stressing it to max won't really show up in a few weeks, but hopefully it'll work out just fine.)

Hopefully the new Bullhead will have an active mosfet cooling solution stock.

DarkManX_BG

03-22-2005, 04:04 AM

Running off the 5V for 2 weeks so far (switched that jumper 20 minutes after getting the mobo :lol: ), no stability problems whatsoever...

I have NO extra cooling for the mosfets, only thing that cools the RAM is the fan on the XP-90...

cantankerous

03-22-2005, 05:38 AM

dang man. Have you ever felt that heatsink in the corner with no fan on it? It's dangerously hot.

bobmanfoo

03-22-2005, 05:49 AM

dang man. Have you ever felt that heatsink in the corner with no fan on it? It's dangerously hot.
is it hot all the time or just under load? anyway, i wonder why they opted to put a smaller heatsink there compared to the others

HKPolice

03-22-2005, 08:41 AM

What about the 3.3v rail = vdimm mod? Can it be safely done when set to use 3.3vrail for vdimm instead of 5v rail?

This is the most stable way of getting voltage to the dimms IMO.

Grayskull

03-22-2005, 08:44 AM

The "new" Bullhead as you call it, doesn't require any cooling. It uses a different architecture and runs cool. Even the very first bullheads were off the 5V rail without thermal issues.

Excellent! (However shortening the mobos life and stressing it to max won't really show up in a few weeks, but hopefully it'll work out just fine.)

Hopefully the new Bullhead will have an active mosfet cooling solution stock.

S0nic

03-22-2005, 10:31 AM

I still didn't receive my PC4000 VX to test how hot the mosfets will get, but I have an 80mm case fan at the top of the case (directly above the mosfets) which I hope will be enough cooling..

btw what's bullhead?

phobos

03-22-2005, 10:46 AM

DarkManX_BG

03-22-2005, 11:08 AM

dang man. Have you ever felt that heatsink in the corner with no fan on it? It's dangerously hot.
:eek:
Just checked it... trying to dig up an old 80mm fan right now. It's really VERY hot, thanks a lot for the hint!

Eversor

03-22-2005, 11:39 AM

I won't use the 5v rail other than for testing, even did a vdimm = vio.
When using from the 5v, even at 3.5v, when memtesting, the pcboard around the dimm mosfets on the top is REALLY HOT, even with a fan. It seems too much current there and the pcboard heats up alot. I personally will use vdimm = 3.3v.
For more consider a ocz booster, at least your board is safe.

It was enough for me when my nf2 lp B blown up 2 times the same pcboard trace probably due to high vcore.
And if Oscar says u cant use 5v for everyday, you can't! Even more for 24/7 load use.

If u have doubts just memtest #5 with a finger next to the mosfets and feeding from 5v, and you'll know what i mean.

mesyn191

03-22-2005, 01:40 PM

All you need is to have a fan pointed at it and it doesn't get very hot man, just my finger on mine and its only a little warm under P95 and I've got my 5v line overvolted a little too.

mdzcpa

03-22-2005, 02:01 PM

All you need is to have a fan pointed at it and it doesn't get very hot man

Yep, I have a small fan there and even under load the heatsink is a cool as a cucumber:) Now, without any fan, the heatsink gets damn hot!

Another point, the area heats up only under load. Email, web, and many other less intensive tasks don't heat up at all even without a fan.

Last, does someone have link where Oscar said that you cannot run the jumper in 5v everyday? I'd like to see that. Because if you email DFI tech, they will tell you that you can use the jumper as an everyday setting. They will only caution you that cooling the area should be considered.

boostdfd3s

03-22-2005, 02:36 PM

well, all i know is they better accept RMA's if the boards start to fail from everyday 5v use

c42

03-22-2005, 02:41 PM

I hope it doesn't turn into a problem. Mine is in route and should be here thursday. My vid card should ship out tomorrow, so hopefully by friday I can test it before I go out of town! I'm building this comp for everyday use, and got this board and the ocz vx thinking that I should be able to run 24/7 stable with correct settings. If I can't run the 5v rail for the vdimm 24/7 stable I'll be switching to tccd and perhaps a different board =\.

boostdfd3s

03-22-2005, 03:12 PM

Well if problems develop from 24/7 use, hopefully they will arise shortly after the ATi board reaches market, which the reps say the 5v mosfet doesnt even get hot from normal use :)

Eversor

03-22-2005, 03:12 PM

I won't use that for 24/7 operation. Maybe is just memtest #5 that really stresses the mosfets.

And what i said it's hot is not the mosfet sink, but the pcboard itself, on top, next to the mosfets. I garantee u running memtest with 5v you can't keep ur finger in that pcboard area. The boards traces get really hot, wich, i think, is nothing good.

EDIT:

I can't find the post, but it was one from OPB saying he was talking to oskar wu, and he told them the 5v rail should only be used for testing purposes.

mdzcpa

03-22-2005, 04:00 PM

I can't find the post, but it was one from OPB saying he was talking to oskar wu, and he told them the 5v rail should only be used for testing purposes.

Well that's 100% contrary to what DFI reps are telling everyone. And at least inconsistent to what the manual says.

BTW, my PCB does NOT get that hot. A small 40mm 2000 rpm fan is enough for me to keep my finger firmly planted on the PCB while running memtest #5. I just tested it now.

Common sense dictates that if it was a real problem to have the 5v jumper they just would not have included the feature there to use in the first place.

Everyone is being far too concerned about this.

bachus_anonym

03-22-2005, 04:05 PM

that's the post - http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=660464&postcount=1

Yeah, you guys are just too concerned about that... I don't think that they would give end-user an option like that if there was a significant danger of killing the board...

Eversor

03-22-2005, 04:22 PM

Strange, mine get's frekin hot. That's why i'm not using the 5v right now...

cantankerous

03-22-2005, 04:48 PM

stress or not its very hot for me. I dont use it. I wish there was a way to get it working from the 3.3v rail of the psu.

S0nic

03-22-2005, 05:00 PM

stress or not its very hot for me. I dont use it. I wish there was a way to get it working from the 3.3v rail of the psu.

there isn't?? can't we get 3.3V or 3.4V from the 3.3v rail if we adjust the rails?

c42

03-22-2005, 05:20 PM

Also the main thing he stated was that it would get extremely hot IF YOU USE 3.3 or LESS with the 5v setting! So there should be no need for this in the first place. They also stated that, yes, it does get hot with more than 3.3v on vdimm with the 5v option enabled, so to actively cool that area.

mdzcpa

03-22-2005, 05:25 PM

Strange, mine get's frekin hot. That's why i'm not using the 5v right now...

Dont get me wrong, mine gets hot too with no fan. Hot enough to burn I think. But a small fan seems to be very effective at dissipating the heat.

I'd never consider using the jumper without localized active cooling.

mdzcpa

03-22-2005, 05:29 PM

that's the post - http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=660464&postcount=1

Thanks for the link! :toast:

It seems Oskar never said anything about not using the 5v jumper for 24/7. Here's what was said:

oskar: However, even though user switch 5v rail source to do vdimm above 3.3v, the heat is still unbelivable hot there. therefore, that's why we use the 4000~10000 hours 105c very good caps on that area. I would definitely suggest users can give that area some air flow to reduce some heat from there.

So it looks like DFI has planned for heat and engineered it accordingly with better caps.

Well....I feel even better about running 24/7 now :banana:
Of course a fan on the corner is a must!

Ailleur

03-22-2005, 07:04 PM

Well, i found a purpose for the big wire clutter. This 80mm fan keeps the mosfet cool enough to touch and hold after an hour of half life 2, which is all that matters to me!

http://www.alienhax.us/uploads/Picture 006.jpg

I would definetly say a fan is a must. With one, im pretty confident about runing the 5v jumper 24/7, especially after reading the caps were stated to live through 105C. Id say the temp is about half that now.

EMC2

03-22-2005, 10:47 PM

I wish there was a way to get it working from the 3.3v rail of the psu.

There is... There have been posts in threads around here about one way to do it. Other ways will be forthcoming at a future time.

And with cooling on the area, it is safe to use the 5V 24/7 if you're using 3.x for Vmem... wouldn't do it with Vmem set to 2.6 or such though.

HKPolice

03-22-2005, 11:41 PM

Repost: What about the 3.3v rail = vdimm mod? Can it be safely done when set to use 3.3vrail for vdimm instead of 5v rail?

This is the most stable way of getting voltage to the dimms IMO.

Eversor

03-23-2005, 03:28 AM

Repost: What about the 3.3v rail = vdimm mod? Can it be safely done when set to use 3.3vrail for vdimm instead of 5v rail?

This is the most stable way of getting voltage to the dimms IMO.

Yup it can. Tough the bios will not read the dimm voltage right.
Like from 3.3v at 3.2v i get +-3.15v. with vdimm = 3.3v i get 3.25, tough the 3.3v rail reads 3.3v

But it works. Just don't use the 5v rail after u do the mod.

HKPolice

03-23-2005, 10:39 AM

Yup it can. Tough the bios will not read the dimm voltage right.
Like from 3.3v at 3.2v i get +-3.15v. with vdimm = 3.3v i get 3.25, tough the 3.3v rail reads 3.3v

But it works. Just don't use the 5v rail after u do the mod.

Great, then what's the fuss about? Just do this mod and crank up the 3.3v rail to 3.6v for 24/7 usage :)

S0nic

03-23-2005, 11:46 AM

so how would I get 3.3V vdimm using the 3.3V rail? What vdimm do I chose in the BIOS?

mdzcpa

03-23-2005, 05:44 PM

Great, then what's the fuss about? Just do this mod and crank up the 3.3v rail to 3.6v for 24/7 usage :)

But the real question is why bother? :shrug:

With the 5v jumper right there, the 3.3 mod is a waste of time.

S0nic

03-23-2005, 07:27 PM

Yup it can. Tough the bios will not read the dimm voltage right.
Like from 3.3v at 3.2v i get +-3.15v. with vdimm = 3.3v i get 3.25, tough the 3.3v rail reads 3.3v

But it works. Just don't use the 5v rail after u do the mod.

aren't those options disabled if u have the jumper in the 3.3V position? isn't 3.1 max?

Jasonxxx

03-23-2005, 08:29 PM

Can you turn your 3.3v line up to say 3.5 or 3.6v and be able to obtain say 3.4 or 3.5v w/o using the 5v jumper?

Revv23

03-23-2005, 08:30 PM

nope the options are still there, just wont work without a higher 3.3v rail.

S0nic

03-23-2005, 08:35 PM

nope the options are still there, just wont work without a higher 3.3v rail.

sounds good (can't test now because I'm still waiting for my VX), is there any disadvantages to doing it this way? if we can get 3.4-3.5 vdimm from our (adjusted) 3.3V rail then why would anyone want to use the 5V rail?

Revv23

03-23-2005, 08:42 PM

because who wants to take the time to mod thier psu to run thier 3.3v rail out of spec when you can just move a jumper and get same results if not better?

Jasonxxx

03-23-2005, 08:50 PM

S0nic

03-23-2005, 08:55 PM

my PSU has adjustable rails (OCZ PowerStream 520W), does that mean it's pointless for me to use the 4V rail even with cooling?

Revv23

03-23-2005, 09:03 PM

The only reason I thought of that is because it causes more heat to drop the voltage from 5v to ~3.5v than to drop .2 or .1 volts....

I'm assumming that you will only be able to reach with in .1 to .15 volts of your 3.3v line voltage, ie... if you adjusted you 3.3v line to 3.6v then you could ony get 3.4 or 3.5v max...Any able to confirm this?

I cannot confirm 100% but i am fairly sure you are right, but again, with the rail out of spec you will need to be cooling the fets anyways, so i dont understand why you wouldnt just use the 5v jumper, and save yourself the hassle of running your PSU out of spec.

S0nic

03-23-2005, 09:16 PM

I cannot confirm 100% but i am fairly sure you are right, but again, with the rail out of spec you will need to be cooling the fets anyways, so i dont understand why you wouldnt just use the 5v jumper, and save yourself the hassle of running your PSU out of spec.

Heat is why I'm considering using the 3.3V rail, if it's gonna generate the same amount of heat then obviously I'll just use the 5V rail..

DarkManX_BG

03-24-2005, 04:34 AM

nope the options are still there, just wont work without a higher 3.3v rail.
They aren't there for me :confused:

HKPolice

03-24-2005, 03:46 PM

Nope... 3.3v rail mod is the most stable source of power. Measure the vdimm yourself with a multimeter, even when using the 5v rail to supply 3.3vdimm, it will sag during memtest.

Using the OCZ PSU, you can adjust the 3.3vrail on the fly from outside the case, which makes this mod even easier to adjust.

Also, you don't have to worry about cooling those ram mosfets anymore, which pumps more heat into your case anyways.

But the real question is why bother? :shrug:

With the 5v jumper right there, the 3.3 mod is a waste of time.

mdzcpa

03-24-2005, 04:06 PM

Nope... 3.3v rail mod is the most stable source of power. Measure the vdimm yourself with a multimeter, even when using the 5v rail to supply 3.3vdimm, it will sag during memtest.

Okay, I just tried this and have no sagging at all running memtest using the 5v jumper :confused: I'm not sure your generalization fits here.

mdzcpa

03-24-2005, 04:11 PM

Update - Okay...there is some sagging. After 30 minutes I am getting a sag from 3.4v to 3.39v using a multimeter.

If that's the sag you are referring to, .001v isn't worth the time to do the mod.

S0nic

03-24-2005, 04:20 PM

I guess I'll try doing it with the 3.3V rail first since I don't have to mod my PSU, if it doesn't work or if it generates the same amount of heat then I'll just use the 5V rail..

Eversor

03-24-2005, 04:40 PM

I guess I'll try doing it with the 3.3V rail first since I don't have to mod my PSU, if it doesn't work or if it generates the same amount of heat then I'll just use the 5V rail..

The mod will produce ZERO heat from the mosfets, since they won't be transforming voltage anymore. In fact i think the vdimm vreg will be disabled, since the vsense it's receiving is higher than it's supposedly supplying thus lowering the voltage till 0.

The only thing that can heat up is the vtt vreg wich will still produce vtt voltage based on the 3.3v it is receiving.

At least the last time i did a mod on a nforce 2 it worked in this exact way.

@mdzcpa

You got me wrong, using 5v vdimm even at 3.6v, during memtest, and WITH a fan, the mosfets don't get so hot, but the pcboard burns my fingers. So I'm not confident to use it 24/7.

Don't want my DFI Ultra @ SLI to die on me prematurely ;)

Regards

Formann

03-24-2005, 04:55 PM

Soldering the 3.3v rail directly to the vdimm circut will never provide RAM with the clean voltage that the vdimm circut on the MOBO does. Fluctuations on the 3.3v rail is normal, and this can affect the stability of the RAM.

The voltages on the DFI nf4 isnt fluctuating at all. Im really impressed by the voltage regulation on this MOBO. Its perfect. No fluctuations what so ever. I dont get why anyone would want use a 3.3v mod on this DFI.

When im running 3.3v the mosfets are about 50-55c. This temp is no match for them as they are made to run twice and over three times as hot without any problems.

mdzcpa

03-24-2005, 06:51 PM

@mdzcpa

You got me wrong, using 5v vdimm even at 3.6v, during memtest, and WITH a fan, the mosfets don't get so hot, but the pcboard burns my fingers. So I'm not confident to use it 24/7.

I understand your concern. Mine just doesn't get quite that hot....and if it did, I'd be inclined to go the same direction as you have:)

However, that said, the point is now MOOT for me. I'm not going to continue with the OCZ VX anymore. I'm going to sell it. After trying the Gskill LA, some older Corsair BH5, and then the OCZ VX with some decent results, I decided to try a pair of trusty Gskill LE. BAM! Right to 295 2.5-3-3-7 at only 2.8v rock stable. It would do way more but my 3500+ chip is maxxed at 295 x 9 for 2650. I was running the VX at 260-265...but it took 3.5v +/- to get there. And even at 2-2-2-8 it could not compete with the Gskill LE at 295 2.5-3-3-7.

EMC2

03-24-2005, 07:55 PM

--- Eversor ---

Where specifically are you getting this hot spot on your MB, in the area of Q60 or over by D8 or ???

Lifthanger

03-25-2005, 05:20 AM

on my board this spot is on the upper edge of the board. It's hot enough to burn your finger. In memtest only of course.. gaming and folding doesn't get nearly as hot.
I don't mind, because my NF7-S was just as hot around the vdimm circuit below the memory banks.
Maybe I'll try to rearrange the cooling, but I don't think ~80C (maybe more like 70C and memtest only) could damage a PCB in the long run.

Eversor

03-25-2005, 05:02 PM

--- Eversor ---

Where specifically are you getting this hot spot on your MB, in the area of Q60 or over by D8 or ???

Q62/61, but lower, closing in to the mosfets.

I didn´t tried 5v when running like gaming or prime, may do so, and if it´s not too hot, my consider giving my bh-5 3.5-3.6v for 24/7.

Jasonxxx

03-25-2005, 06:58 PM

I would think that when using the 5v rail to supply voltage to the memory that the higher the voltage to the memory, the less stress it would put on the mosfets...?

Can anyone confirm that you can indeed adjust your 3.3v rail on your power supply up to say ~3.5v and then just select say ~3.4v or ~3.5v for the memory in the bios and it be just fine?

Can you actually obtain the same voltage as the powersupply is suppling the mosfet? Meaning if you adjust your p.s. 3.3v line up to 3.5v can you actually supply 3.5v to your memory by selecting 3.5v in the bios?

S0nic

03-25-2005, 07:07 PM

I'm would also like to see someone confim that, I'm expecting to receive my RAM on wednesday so if no one confirms this by then I will..

bachus_anonym

03-25-2005, 07:41 PM

Jasonxxx

03-25-2005, 08:23 PM

thank you, that definately confirms it :D

fareastgq

03-25-2005, 08:31 PM

You guys are worrying too much, I have literally used the 5 volt setting non stop for a month, I don't turn my comp off because I don't pay for electricity, but I do pay for my 3MB connection, so I download anime when I am at work, the board is fine :P If it dies within stock parameters and you cooled it properly, stop worrying :P Btw, when I run 2.8 volts or less, I don't cool the top right sink, when I run 2.9+, I do, also, in my experience, the 5 volt setting is more stable for a hardy OC than the 3.3 setting.

EMC2

03-25-2005, 10:51 PM

Q62/61, but lower, closing in to the mosfets.

I didn´t tried 5v when running like gaming or prime, may do so, and if it´s not too hot, my consider giving my bh-5 3.5-3.6v for 24/7.

Those are the Vmem FETs ;) The copper plane under them acts as a HS (tab of package soldered to MB) and the MB dissapates more than the finned HS on top. No worries there... that's why you want your fan blowing from the "top edge" or better the "right edge" of the board across the MB surface, not from directly above the HS ;)

--- Jason ---

You can get within 150mV of the rail safely (set in BIOS 0.2V less than rail). Regarding options in BIOS with 3.3V rail... it has been done... but many have no problems using the 5V rail.

Skratch

03-26-2005, 09:20 AM

I dont know what dfi was thinking with the 5v jumpers.There is no way you can run this board stable that way.

I just tried the 5v again but this time with a temp probe.

with the jumper at 3v I can run my bh5 at 243 Tight timings at 3.2v and that mosfet stays at 84 F benching for over an hour (closed case).

Now with the jumper at 5v I can run my ram @250 tight timings @3.3v but get this the mosfets after 3 min of memtest hit 160 d F with open case and fans blowing on them.

can someone mod the bios to get at least 3.3v with out changing the jumper.

DarkManX_BG

03-26-2005, 09:38 AM

160F (70C) is not that much, considering that the stuff there is supposed to take 105C...

Skratch

03-26-2005, 09:56 AM

160F (70C) is not that much, considering that the stuff there is supposed to take 105C...

Lets see to go from 3.2volts on the ram to 3.3 I got a 60F increase.That was with open case with fans and only 3 min.

I tried for 3.4volts but the board would shut it self down before it could post.

mdzcpa

03-26-2005, 10:04 AM

I dont know what dfi was thinking with the 5v jumpers.There is no way you can run this board stable that way.

Sure it can. I ran my for weeks at 3.4v 24/7.

So the area gets a bit warm...so what...just add a small fan :shrug:

Skratch

03-26-2005, 10:07 AM

Sure it can. I ran my for about 4 weeks at 3.4v 24/7.

So the area gets a bit warm...so what...just add a small fan :shrug:

Mine shuts down after like ten min,thats why I said its not stable.

mdzcpa

03-26-2005, 10:14 AM

What do you mean "shutsdown"?

Crashes? Reboots? BSODs?

Its likely something specific to your hardware....like your memory not liking that much voltage or the timings you are running. It can be a number of things. You hafta find the sweet spot. If its your memory that just doesn't like the voltage perhaps the jumper isn't for you. But as far as stability of the power supply using the jupmer...its pretty darn good. Someone recommended that I test the sag with a multimeter which I did. I was shocked to see a very stable voltage coming off the 5v jumper set up.

Skratch

03-26-2005, 10:30 AM

fareastgq

03-26-2005, 11:41 AM

It just shuts off completely.It might be my psu.I have a 500watt xconnect.My ram loves the volts but the system just shuts down like a min after booting.

You should test with a known good psu and brand. The Ultra psu's are pretty light weight compared to alot of the other psu's I've seen (I'm speaking literally). When I say light, I'm comparing them to my pcp&c 510 deluxe, fortron 350 and 400, ocz modstream, even a thermaltake 420 silent purepower was heavier. I was actually suprised the ultra was so light for a 500w psu. This is in no way any means to gauge really how a psu performs, but most of the time weight & quality go hand in hand. Again, they run fine stock, but I don't think I would expect too much out of them.

Revv23

03-27-2005, 03:24 PM

i would take a fortron 350 over a 500w ultra any day.

Eversor

03-28-2005, 06:22 AM

Jasonhk

03-28-2005, 06:27 AM

How do you do that mod details please :)

Lifthanger

03-28-2005, 07:08 AM

Radelon

03-28-2005, 08:38 AM

I just tested this over the weekend. I had been using the 5v for my tccd @ 2.6v DDR590 and it was 100% stable. So after reading this thread I switched to the 3.3v and now it's not stable at DDR560 with all exact same settings in bios. So for me, the 5v route is way more stable. I'll switch back to 5v tonight and see if stability comes back. I mean who knows, it could be another Winny with IMC goin' bad.

pershoot

03-28-2005, 08:49 AM

yup +5 is more stable in regards to voltage supply then +3 is. however, be warned, that you should not run below 3.3 while on +5. as an example, i was testing on +5 and went to 3.1 while #5'in it in memtest. after a few passes, the caps in the dimm area started hissing/making a repeated charge noise from this (which was loud, hehe).

blackjok3r

03-28-2005, 06:01 PM

Mine was fine on the 5v for a while. But it ot waay too hot. I need a fan thats all. With a fan on the right corner angled across the board, it would cool the mosfet and the pcb area Eversor was talking about.

S0nic

04-03-2005, 11:52 AM

well I finally got my VX and did some testing, I have a 80mm fan directly above the mosfets area and I find the at full load it heats up so much it's kinda scary, couldn't leave it running overnight while I was sleeping because I was afraid it would start a fire or something, I tried using the 3.3V line but that won't work, max I can get out of it is 3.2V which is not enough for my VX, do the newer revisions of this board run cooler or something? I bought it the day it came out so I have the first revision..

EMC2

04-03-2005, 01:12 PM

If you can, position your fan so it blows *across* the board, not from above it. It'll run much cooler in the Vmem regulator area that way ;)

brandinb

04-03-2005, 04:52 PM

I can't even get 210MHz stable with Twinmos SP running 3.2V from the 3.3V rail, while I can do 230MHz at 3.2V and 250MHz at 3.3V when running from the 5V rail.

Did someone else experience this problems?

It seems as if the 3.3V rail can't deliver that clean current than the 5V rail.

thats because your 3.3 volt line isnt high enough to supply 3.2 volts correctly. i had the same problem then i turned my 3.3 line to 3.45 and it was rock stable at 3.2 off the 3.3@3.45 just like off teh 5v
________
BDSM MOVIE (http://www.:banana::banana::banana::banana:tube.com/categories/8/bdsm/videos/1)

saaya

04-03-2005, 05:59 PM

sticky :)

Revv23

04-03-2005, 06:12 PM

i really dont think this needs to be a sticky, weve got enough already imo.

well I finally got my VX and did some testing, I have a 80mm fan directly above the mosfets area and I find the at full load it heats up so much it's kinda scary, couldn't leave it running overnight while I was sleeping because I was afraid it would start a fire or something, I tried using the 3.3V line but that won't work, max I can get out of it is 3.2V which is not enough for my VX, do the newer revisions of this board run cooler or something? I bought it the day it came out so I have the first revision..

the lower the voltage the hotter the board gets, on the other hand your ram gets hotter with more voltage...

S0nic

04-03-2005, 07:35 PM

If you can, position your fan so it blows *across* the board, not from above it. It'll run much cooler in the Vmem regulator area that way ;)

that actually helped temps a lot, thanks

the lower the voltage the hotter the board gets, on the other hand your ram gets hotter with more voltage...
you're right, lose lose situation, and the 3.3V can't provide a stable 3.2V for me so that's also out of question (besides I can't get 250mhz with 3.2V) I'm thinking of just ditching this stupid VX anyways since my sticks can't even do 250 2-2-2-x stable (PC4000 version) and they already screwed up my windows installation (along with all my game saves :() really bad that I can't even get into windows no matter what now, I tried the repair console and still nothing :( . The heat and headache generated by these sticks is just not worth it imo, TCCD is much better and more stable, I got like 50 BSOD's trying to get this :banana::banana::banana::banana: stable

DAMN YOU VX!!! :mad: :mad:

Tibu

04-03-2005, 08:06 PM

Um if it doesn't do 250 you should contact one of the very friendly and helpful ocz employees on this forum.

S0nic

04-03-2005, 08:09 PM

I did, a little too late but I did..

Tibu

04-03-2005, 08:10 PM

A little late? Don't those sticks have lifetime warranty?

S0nic

04-03-2005, 08:33 PM

no i meant the corrupt windows installation :(
I''ll try to exchange them for some TCCD, and reinstall everything..

Revv23

04-04-2005, 09:10 PM

S0nic

04-05-2005, 07:01 AM

you need 3.3 for them to run 250....

did you try 3.4 or so off the 5v rail, 2-2-2?

and what were you thinking installing windows overclocked? should have ran 200x whatever on 2.6 2.5-3-3

i never install windows with my overclocks on, even if i already know its a stable overclock.

I didn't install windows overclocked, I installed it with my old TCCD and it was perfectly stable, then comes the VX and ruins everything, actually i'm pretty sure it's because the sticks are defective, when I get my TCCD back I might be able to load windows, only problem is in frustration I reformatted :(, I know it's was stupid of me, but I initially didn't think it was the sticks fault since I expected them to at least run DDR400 stable, oh well :(

btw I tried voltages ranging from 3.1-3.5 so voltage is definately not the problem, the sticks are just defective, already sent for exchange..

krille

04-05-2005, 07:14 AM

DUDE!! how come my stupid comment lead to this sticky? well, why is it a sticky??

S0nic

04-05-2005, 07:37 AM

DUDE!! how come my stupid comment lead to this sticky? well, why is it a sticky??

your stupid comment? have u even posted in this thread?

I actually think it's a good idea to sticky this for a while because the heat generated from the mosfet could be dangerous for 24/7 use, it's ok for benching or maybe a little bit of gaming (preferrably with the case open) but 24/7 use is not recommended, and like DFI says "use at your own risk"

krille

04-05-2005, 09:24 AM

your stupid comment? have u even posted in this thread?

I actually think it's a good idea to sticky this for a while because the heat generated from the mosfet could be dangerous for 24/7 use, it's ok for benching or maybe a little bit of gaming (preferrably with the case open) but 24/7 use is not recommended, and like DFI says "use at your own risk"

I meant this thread, and yes I have (several times) if you read the thread. If you read the first post, it refers to a post in the sapphire gruper thread, which was made by me (the reason for the guy starting this thread). anyhow, that is quite unimportant, my point was that i thought it odd for this to be sticky, that's all. (sorry for the confusion.)

mdzcpa

04-05-2005, 09:59 AM

I actually think it's a good idea to sticky this for a while because the heat generated from the mosfet could be dangerous for 24/7 use, it's ok for benching or maybe a little bit of gaming (preferrably with the case open) but 24/7 use is not recommended, and like DFI says "use at your own risk"

This is bad information to be passing off as fact.

First, Official DFI support said the jumper is indeed fine for 24/7 use. DFI Street has the linkage.
Second, Oskar said the same thing as long as some active cooling was used
Third, there are plenty of folks who already run this 5v jumper 24/7 just fine (including me).
Fourth, I can't even recall a single failure as a result someone using the 5v jumper

Frankly, all the concern about the heat on the corner of the mobo where the 5v jumper is borderlines on hysteria. The pwm gets hotter and has no active cooling. The caps in the 5v area were designed to handle the temps.

No where does DFI say using the 5v jumper is "not recommended" for 24/7 use.

pershoot

04-05-2005, 10:04 AM

there is more heat produced yup. however, the design of that area, allows for tolerance of this heat buildup. otherwise they would not have included the option;) oskar even stated that they put high qual. caps in that area (100K life???).

and to further add, +5 is most definitely more stable then +3 is in terms of voltage. the downside is, the heat buildup.

i have run on +5 for month and a half now. no issues from it.

S0nic

04-05-2005, 12:38 PM

First of all one month and a half is hardly enough time to say that no damage is being done to the board, also DFI says "use at your own risk" which implies that this could cause trouble and that it isn't covered by warranty, also u don't just need active cooling on that area, u need a very well ventilated case to keep system temps reasonable. What kind of cases are u using the 5V rail in 24/7?
it might be possible to use the 5V rail 24/7 for months without problems, but it's definately not recommended, even by DFI employees, that's why I think this thread is worth stickying, because not all people might want to take that risk, I wish the board had a better way of delivering more vdimm to the ram..

I personally prefer TCCD over UTT/BH-5 because it can give the same performance using less voltage = less heat = quiter system & longer life, at least until there is a better way of delivering vdimm.

my 2¢..

pershoot

04-05-2005, 12:43 PM

your right 1 month and a half is not enough time to incur any damage. i go by the presumption that they have tested it thoroughly and if breakage happens, they will warranty it.

S0nic

04-05-2005, 01:07 PM

I don't remember where I saw the "use at your own risk", might be confusing it with something else, can anyone confirm if damage caused from using the 5V rail is covered by warranty?

mdzcpa

04-05-2005, 03:21 PM

Sonic, with all due respect you read like a house on fire.

Read the thread again, your answers are within.

DFI does NOT say "use at your own risk" in reference to the mobo itself
DFI does NOT say that using the 5v jumper 24/7 is not recommended
DFI does NOT say using the 5v jumper voids your warranty

Where are you getting this from? How about some links?

Head over to DFI street were you WILL get the official word from DFI. And that word is that you can use the 5v jumper 24/7. It is only recommended that you use active cooling. Furthermore, any failures caused by using the 5v jumper is waranteed. This is per DFI.

Please stop presenting your opinion as fact. I've personally discussed this issue with Vivian at length via email and I tend to beleive her (a senior DFI USA employee).

EDIT - I checked with Vivian again. The only thing they are referring to when they say use at your own risk is damage that can be caused to the CPU or RAM using high voltages. This is no different than any other mobo with OC options. The mobo is fully warranteed.

S0nic

04-05-2005, 04:28 PM

DFI does NOT say "use at your own risk" in reference to the mobo itself

I guess I misunderstood them, thought they meant using it could damage the mobo..

DFI does NOT say using the 5v jumper voids your warranty

I didn't say it did, that's why I asked in my post right before yours..

Furthermore, any failures caused by using the 5v jumper is waranteed. This is per DFI.

I can't find this in dfi-street, could u provide a link? or was it Vivian that said that?

Please stop presenting your opinion as fact.
I didn't present any of my opinions as facts (at least that wasn't my intention), I might've misunderstood a few things if what u're telling me is true, but that isn't my fault, they could've worded things better, my point is that using the 5V rail generates a ridiculous amount of heat that could be harmful to more than one component of a computer. RAM that requires high voltages usually generates a lot of heat, so the last thing u need when using it is another component generating even more heat. I hear the ATI board won't have this problem, that means that DFI could've done this differently..
after using the 5V in my rig for about 1 hour full load the side panel of my case heated up a lot so I got worried and opened it, everything inside was really hot, btw my case is a coolermaster wavemaster with 2 80mm intake and 2 80mm exhaust (plus XP-120 cooling ram and 80mm fan cooling mosfet), what kind of case can u run ur setup for using the 5V rail 24/7?

Ailleur

04-07-2005, 01:26 PM

Ive been running my ram on the orange line for a month or so at 3.3V 255fsb cas 1.5 with a 80mm fan blowing right on the mosfet. Today, it started crashing in games. Then after a while, i couldnt get windows to boot, its crash after the initial loading screen to a blue screen that said something about memory (no time to read it)

I clocked all the way down to 200mhz cas 2 at 3.1v and it was still no go, so i decided to switch from orange to yellow line.

Seems to be running okay, it booted back to 250mhz cas 1.5 and ran spi8mb.
Im gonna hold off >3.2vdimm for now. Im not saying thats what caused it but maybe ill wait a couple of weeks to see others experience this problem.

mdzcpa

04-07-2005, 01:47 PM

I can't find this in dfi-street, could u provide a link? or was it Vivian that said that?

All of my above comments were based on direct email exchanges with DFI support and Vivian.

I didn't present any of my opinions as facts

Well, I am addressing the way you presented your post in which you clearly indicated that "DFI says use at you own risk" and that "it might be possible to use the 5V rail 24/7 for months without problems, but it's definately not recommended, even by DFI employees". This just isn't true.

I apologize for "jumping on you" if you feel that way at all. Its just very important that we do not put representations into the mouths of vendors which they did not make. Less experienced members will mistake your "understanding" as official DFI communications.

That said, I agree with you that the heat is an issue some may feel uncomfortable about. But many are running 24/7 just fine with the jumper and zero failures have been reported. That's not to say that there is enough voltage available to fry your memory...which is why they say use at your own risk.

BTW, I use a simple plain jane no name case for my daily rig. LOL....I just moved back to Gskill TCCD from the OCZ VX I was using because running all that voltage to get TCCD type results with the VX wasn't worth it:)

S0nic

04-07-2005, 02:14 PM

sorry for the way I presented my post, just didn't want ppl to go through what I had to go through, was very frustrated...I hope DFI addresses this issue on their later revisions of the board if possible..

I just moved back to Gskill TCCD from the OCZ VX I was using because running all that voltage to get TCCD type results with the VX wasn't worth it:)

I did the same thing, switched back to my good old OCZ Plat. Rev. 2 :)

S0nic

04-07-2005, 02:18 PM

Ive been running my ram on the orange line for a month or so at 3.3V 255fsb cas 1.5 with a 80mm fan blowing right on the mosfet. Today, it started crashing in games. Then after a while, i couldnt get windows to boot, its crash after the initial loading screen to a blue screen that said something about memory (no time to read it)

Same thing happened to me with the VX after only 2 days, except I didn't think of switching to yellow, I thought it was a problem with the ram not the mobo, I hope no damage was done to the slots, but if so then I guess I can just use the yellow slots when my TCCD arrives (tomorrow)

Ailleur

04-07-2005, 05:44 PM

Yellow ones are working just fine (up to now anyway) Ill try the orange ones again tomorrow morning, see if the hardware godmother fixes it during the night.

Well to follow up, i noticed when i got back to the bios that the memory option were as if the 5v jumper wasnt set (it was) and i was stuck at 3.2v.

Shutdown the pc, switched the 5v jumper back and forth from on to off back to on and the vdimm options came back. Weird stuff.

[XC] 4X4N

04-07-2005, 09:31 PM

I have been running this board with 3.4 or 3.5 volts since I got it in feb. I do have a fan over the ram and one over the corner of the motherboard. I game for hours, record from tuner card for hours, run prime overnight, memtest overnight, ( always trying to get more out of it :D ) I have had no problems whatsoever. I don't see how dfi would give you this option if it were not ok to use it.

FireDragon

04-08-2005, 06:30 AM

I was running mine at 3.4-3.6 for days at a time...no problem the mosfet was reaching upwards of 120 deg c...so it IS hot...it MUST be a 175deg c fet as at 3.6 it makes it run WAY WAY to close to the 125 deg thermal limit...I am planning on changing the HS and the chip that is up and to the left of it gets in the 100 deg c range also I plain on cutting a has so that it cover them both then putting a mini blower on the to keep them cool...as I am going to have SUB 0 ram here and 4v will pretty much be a given through my UTT...so…it is going to need some other type of cooling then stock…I plain on holding the hs on with AS epoxy…

But in truth anything over 3.5 volts need some better passive cooling or stock with at least a fan on it.

Dragon

MAValpha

05-26-2005, 08:52 PM

Sorry to resurrect a dead thread, but do any of you know how to get a VDIMM=5V railmod going? My BH-5 is a hair's-breadth away from DDR600 (DDR550 @ ~3.5V, CPU limited on my soon-to-be-replaced 754) but I would need 4.2-4.3V to do it reliably.

I'm switching to NF4/939, so I will definitely get/modify an NF4-D or Ultra-D.

MrBean

07-30-2005, 03:25 AM

Hello Guys,
Something disturbing I have noticed concerning possible another voltage issue, based on my own, and a few local's experiences....

See thread here: http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18416

Is it possible Saaya/OPP or one of the Mods create a new thread for this, as I am not allowed?

Thanx,
MrBean.