View Full Version : Granite Bay...pffttt
This whole Granite Bay deal has annoyed me. It's late, it's expensive, and it might buy you 5% overall performance over an 845PE board at 3:4, IF that.
Let's see...8INXP vs. IT7MAX 2, at tbreak:
http://www.tbreak.com/reviews/article.php?id=168&pagenumber=5
Quake III - 325 vs 320, 1.5% faster
Sam II - 183.4 vs 184.7...whoops, it's 0.7% slower!
3DMark - 12281 vs 12184, 0.7% faster
UT2K3 Flyby - 202.4 vs 198.15, 2.1% faster
Blah.
To top that off, for builders like myself, who ship most of our systems non-overclocked, where the hell does this board fit in? It's slower than 850E/PC1066 across the board, and the same price for a 512MB configuration.
As for overclockers, I'm just not seeing the big deal. It's slower to 2% faster in games. And what if it doesn't overclock quite as well as an 845PE? What if you can squeeze 1-5 MHz of FSB more out of an 845PE than you can a GB with a given chip? Wouldn't the 845PE ultimately be faster?
Sorry if I'm being pissy about this crap, but GB has been all anybody can talk about for too long, I'm not seeing the big deal at all. And it's STILL not here.
If you've got a good 845 DDR setup or a RDRAM setup, wait for Springdale in Q2...at least then you'll be able to take the 800MHz FSB procs.
If you've been waiting, I'd seriously consider saving the dough, and going with an 845PE until Springdale, or an 850E/PC1066 if you keep your mobos longer than a year (i.e. DDRII tech will be out by this time next year).
That's my 1 ta 2 percents...
[]V[]orpheus
11-29-2002, 07:11 PM
Yup, I'm not impressed @ all, specially when you compare it to PC4200 RIMMS :)
Jupiler
11-30-2002, 01:07 AM
Yep, I agree with you about that.
I thought that performance would be much better compared to RDRAM and DDR. Apparently not. Looking at the small performance increase, it's not worth the high price, IMO.
That's why I got the Max2 v2.0 and I tend to keep it for a couple of months.
Guess that RDRAM isn't dead yet. ;)
deeznuts
11-30-2002, 04:11 PM
i have to disagree with you here Zroc. overclocking is where this board will shine IMO. so far, i have not seen a proper GB review where overclocking is tested, against other boards oc'ed as well.
the tbreak reviews only overclocked the board in question, while the other boards are usually left stock. as far as i can tell at least. with the 3:4 ratio you speak of Zroc (actually i think you mean 4:5 maybe?) you almost have to go with Corsair XMS line which is very expensive. right now i can get some decent PC2700, 512MB for $120. my friend just bought two (locally) and they do 180. 180 MHz is fine for me. so i save some money right there by not having to get XMS or other expensive ram.
also, anandtech got their GB boards to do around 160 or so without adjusting vcore at all. tbreak got their asus to hit 190 fsb. there is no reason to believe just yet that these new intel chipsets do not oc as well as the 845PE. intel has done it with their i845D, i845E, and i845PE. 190 is probably more than i need. i have a 2.8 coming, if all goes well, i hope to go past the limit RDRAM has, which is 155 or so (unless that's changed).
plus, i sell my stuff all the time, so this stuff will be easy to sell.
not every product will please everybody, but in my situation, i'm all for it.
Originally posted by deeznuts
i have to disagree with you here Zroc. overclocking is where this board will shine IMO.
You missed my point, deez. What I was pointing out is that, clock to clock, Granite Bay is showing that it's anywhere from slower to 2% faster than the 845PE in games. As in, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference for the price premium (and the gawd-awful wait). Being that they'll both probably overclock the same (though it is completely feasible that GB won't get quite as high, simply from dual-channel, but say it does), it just doesn't look exciting.
When I get mine in, I'll post the showdown, as I usually do, but I'm just saying...I'm not excited. If somebody already had a good 845 DDR board, I'd tell 'em to wait 4-6 months for Springdale and the 800MHz FSB tech.
FragMagnet
11-30-2002, 10:43 PM
ZROC, how ya been? Have you GFE to save for Christmas?
I think if GB is going to fill any gaps it will be with the lower multi chips. Have you heard anything more about upcoming RDRAM stuff, like PC1200 or higher, or DC ?
Tedinde
11-30-2002, 11:31 PM
Zroc old friend. I've been contemplating the GB too, and will buy one to try, The price is too high to build in customers non overclocked rigs, your right.
Low multipler chips this might shine. Since there arent many 850 or "e" rdram boards that crank high fsb, Cept my th7II of course.
My current 2.8 will go 178fsb+ a little more with good cooling. This board might be the one for me. But in the 160fsb range where everyone's hanging at. the 3:4 multipler boards make sense. or a good 850e with 4200 ram.
But then my 1.6a will do 196fsb in a vapochill for 3136mhz, Hmm will the GB's do that much, considering your using 2 sticks of memory which is harder. I havnt seen the few reviews going too high, but then maybe they dont have good chips?? Or scared of a few extra volts i dont mind giveing.
And you can save a few dollars on being able to get buy with out high $$ memory.
This chipset is just hard to make sense of, if abit releases a board, it will cut into their IT7max line, if they dont then people will buy their boards from other makers. I was looking forward to an Abit GB if it ever happens.
Man will there ever be a board worthy enough to make me take out my th7II.
Sad thing is for me is the ASUS GB is the only one right now between the 3 that looks like it may do what i want, but it's so hard to buy it after the p4t533-c and p4t533 i tried. And swore i would never buy another asus board.
But then i've been using the asus Nforce1 micro boards for cheap integrated customer rigs, work great "Asus A7N266-VM" amd. But for me it's going to be hard to buy another ASUS.
But as always, i'll buy the thing the first day i can, if it sucks, i'll just sell it off in a customers rig. If not i'll be the first to sing it's praises. I've got the chips to test it, if and when i can ever get it.
The wait is starting to be bullsh*t i agree though. Dammit if i could just get a high FSB pc4200 board, the hell with GB.
Originally posted by FragMagnet
ZROC, how ya been? Have you GFE to save for Christmas?
Zroc's GFE post in the P4T533 thread was a classic! I still crack up when I think of it. Actually makes a certain amount of sense for us "average" guys.:D
Originally posted by Tedinde
Well said, ted...you and I are in the same boat, my friend. GB is turning out to be merely a curiosity...I've got a 1.8 that does 3.06 on air, so it may be nice for that.
I'm just not 'excited'.
Originally posted by bmg, Frag
Zroc's GFE post in the P4T533 thread was a classic! I still crack up when I think of it. Actually makes a certain amount of sense for us "average" guys.:D
LOL! Yes, yes it was :)
For the Xtreme that don't know...
GFE means to Go Fat Early.
One Goes Fat Early if one is broke, trying to save money, on a bet with some friends (also called 'whaling'), or is just feeling like an utter pig.
By definition:
-To 'Go Fat Early' : The polar opposite of natural male mating tendancies. It is natural for man to enter a bar, and then proceed to buy pretty women drinks all night, in an effort to aquire prime real estate in their pants. By the end of the night, said man is typically in a drunken stupor, and finds himself in the arms of a rather large, unsightly woman.
The 'Go Fat Early' man, upon entering the establishment, promptly singles out the largest woman in the bar. This woman is quite happy with such a surprising advance, and proceeds to buy the 'Go Fat Early' man all the drinks he wants. By the end of the night, said man is typically in a drunken stupor, and finds himself in the arms of a rather large, unsightly woman...but hasn't spent a dime.
'Go Fat Early'...it's like getting paid to do what you were going to do anyway :)
FragMagnet
12-01-2002, 01:44 AM
Ted: Dam that's a nice 1.6 ! I'm still running the TH7-II, a little tired of this PC1066/PC800 mix just to run a high fsb. @ 170 fsb it reports 384mb @ 176 it's 448mb, it just bothers me knowing that I have 640mb installed. I wanted to try the P4T533, but no one would stock locally, and from the track record if I had to RMA across the border it's a pain with customs. I'm mildly interested in the GB, if some users report good things. I'd like to see how high this 2.26b goes on a good DDR board. It's comfortable @ 3Ghz and seems stable @ 3017 but I just leave it @ 3Ghz. I'm trying to hold off til we see some chips reliably over 4Ghz on H2O or air, maybe we'll have springdale by then?
ZROC: I'll have to rely on your reports :slobber: I've been married for 18 years, and it would be far too expensive to open a franchise here.:p
Tedinde
12-01-2002, 09:15 AM
I gave the p4t533 a try even though I got one 2 months after zroc and the rest, and i read the SI thread at hard from day one. I just had to give it a shot.
Im just running 2 128mb sticks of pc800 45ns samsungs for high speed,
and the same deal of a couple of 256 pc1066's in there for day to day work.
On BOARDS.
The chips i have just at a cross over point with ddr, my geil pc3500 craps out @ 172fsb on a 3:4 mult, So even though my chip will do 3750mhz, with ddr set @ 4:5 to get it to that. Im faster running @ 3600mhz on the 3:4 DDR. so I kept it there With my 2.8. on a bg7
But as always i just end up going back to my TH7II and a 3x, But even when the GB does come out and I end up faster, I always hit the wall like every one esle and what more, and have to wait on the next Wonder board or chip. Never satisfied.
But let me know when you guys finally say it's fast enough and i dont need anymore, hehe, that day will never come.
Hmm...I was just thinking on these upcoming 800MHz FSB procs/Canterwood. Wouldn't that just make it a sumbiatch to overclock 'em? I mean, take, say, a 3200/800MHz chip. Granted, that's going to be hella-fast. But that's going to be 16x200 DDR400 already....
Tedinde
12-01-2002, 12:18 PM
800MHz FSB procs/Canterwood.
Ok i guess that could keep me content for a few months as long as they quit teasing me with faster stuff that you cant buy for months.
deeznuts
12-01-2002, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Zroc
You missed my point, deez. What I was pointing out is that, clock to clock, Granite Bay is showing that it's anywhere from slower to 2% faster than the 845PE in games.
i got your point. but mine is to say that at stock speeds, yeah the difference between i845PE vs. GB is not that much, probably around the same. but as you go higher in FSB, i think the single channel DDR might be choking more of the FSB than at stock speeds. what i mean is, the differential between mem bandwidth of GB and PE at stock speeds isn't much, but grows greater at higher FSB's.
of course i don't know this because i don't have a damn board, but i am willing to wait a bit. my 2.8 for $199 hasn't come in yet:p
as for price premium, this has never bothered me in anything i buy, including non-computer parts. if i want something bad enough, i find someway to buy it. of course it doesn't make sense for customer's boards. i don't run a legit business, but i build a lot of computers for myself and friends (got 6 sitting here right loading of all things, Win98SE:eek: ), and boards like this, or any high end boards, dont' make sense unless customer specifically requests it. for instance, someone requested asus PE board, the one he chose costs around $150. i suggested an albatron one, for $85. he loves it.
Blue078
12-02-2002, 05:46 PM
Well I've been waiteing for GB thinking it's gona be the next big thing, but it ant here yet, and now I'm not to sure about it.
The INQ say's AGP is broke on E7205, and 7505 chipsets.
Take a peek
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6499
Tedinde
12-02-2002, 06:51 PM
Doesnt seem broke on all the reviews of granite bay boards with 3d tests??:confused:
Blue078
12-02-2002, 07:00 PM
Maybe AGP Prefetch Cache isnt to important??
Sounds like it would be though.
bigjohns97
12-03-2002, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by Zroc
Hmm...I was just thinking on these upcoming 800MHz FSB procs/Canterwood. Wouldn't that just make it a sumbiatch to overclock 'em? I mean, take, say, a 3200/800MHz chip. Granted, that's going to be hella-fast. But that's going to be 16x200 DDR400 already....
I plan on hitting 1ghz bus on my next rig.
Originally posted by bigjohns97
I plan on hitting 1ghz bus on my next rig.
A 3.2 16x200 stock chip at 16x250 4GHz would be pretty sweet indeed. Gonna have to be some hella memory, though, to hit DDR 500 dual channel :)
bigjohns97
12-04-2002, 10:34 AM
I am more worried about the limitations of the northbridge. On the front page i remember Cviggen or OPP reviewed some Giel memory and they hit very near 500mhz ddr, but i think by the time canterwood and 800mhz fsb NW's come out we should have some certified 250 mhz memory.
I hope :D
That'd be sweet, no doubt :toast:
Well, the only place that even mention Granite Bay board (myinfinity, for what THAT's worth) pushed it back another week.
Anybody think we'll see GB boards this year?
worthless
12-05-2002, 05:42 AM
Nope, which is why I broke down and ordered an it7max2 v2. I want something to mess with during the break between semesters.
Saw a mention about some of the lesser granite bay boards showing up in Japan, but no Asus or Gigabyte yet, and those seem to be the only two worth owning (so far). Hope canterwood gets here fast :P
PureBooYah
12-05-2002, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Zroc
That'd be sweet, no doubt :toast:
Well, the only place that even mention Granite Bay board (myinfinity, for what THAT's worth) pushed it back another week.
Anybody think we'll see GB boards this year?
Im guessing feb. it will be released and after reading this thread about 8 times and seeing that the board keeps getting pushed back has changed my mind in getting a GB board, im waiting to see what comes out next year and AFAIK i have the fastest computer here at CMU :toast: , which is really kinda sad. Everyone i know has a POS, except my roomie his isnt that bad. So what do i have to complain about. ;)
Tedinde
12-06-2002, 02:20 PM
Well, the only place that even mention Granite Bay board (myinfinity, for what THAT's worth) pushed it back another week.
Yes i get their lovely emails every other day now, pushing it up and if i want to cancel.
Funny now the price has been going up on their site every day. I got the deluxe @ $219 there, 2 days later it went to $239, now it's $259 there. Everytime the ETA goes up the price goes up.
Originally posted by Tedinde
Yes i get their lovely emails every other day now, pushing it up and if i want to cancel.
Funny now the price has been going up on their site every day. I got the deluxe @ $219 there, 2 days later it went to $239, now it's $259 there. Everytime the ETA goes up the price goes up.
lol! I just noticed that :)
Heh, I guess when the boards finally ship in February, they'll be $300 :eek:
Tedinde
12-07-2002, 09:44 PM
Man I need this board. I just ordered a 2.1 Celeron from the IPD program. $68 shipped, if anyone is on it buy one just cause it's so cheap.
And yes i know it's a celeron but. FYI, the 2.0 celeron i have now will do 3.2ghz with a factory heatsink and 1.7volts.
Celeron against P4 @ the same MHZ, i lose 4500 points in 3dmark with a radeon 9700 But for folding there's only about a 2% difference if anyone's interested in the performance.
TechTones
12-07-2002, 10:54 PM
Guys,
don't mean to thread crap but since I find my friends from Softocp here, how are you guys?
Has anyone migrated back to H? I haven't even been to the page
for any reason for approx 2-3 weeks now. How about you guys?
Raystonn
12-08-2002, 01:04 PM
With regards to Granite Bay, I will say this much: I have no plans to move from my RDRAM-based system over to Granite Bay.
-Raystonn
Friar Tuck
12-08-2002, 01:13 PM
It sounds like Raystonn, looks like Raystonn.. :eek:
I agree..I'm in no hurry to leave RDRam for GB.
FT.
Raystonn
12-08-2002, 01:16 PM
There are better things coming. :D
-Raystonn
TechTones
12-08-2002, 02:47 PM
Hey Raystonn
you're a site for sore eyes! So what system you still running?
Raystonn
12-08-2002, 02:51 PM
I still have an Abit TH7II motherboard. I currently have a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 Processor with 400MHz System Bus installed in it.
I don't plan on upgrading my motherboard at least until Canterwood arrives.
-Raystonn
TechTones
12-08-2002, 02:57 PM
I picked up a refurbed TH7-II from Newegg. Actually runs great.
I took it down to do a review of the Iwill P4HT-S at www.thenakedreview.com
I now have a 2.8 I got off Intel's IPD for $200. That hopefully will go into one of the newest P4T533 boards. I've seen one running and it was rock stable.
Had the new Richtek VRM on it and few other fixes.
Tedinde
12-08-2002, 08:30 PM
Hey Raystonn's still alive. Yeah it's gotta be raystonn.He wouldnt part with his Rdram for anything , but neither have i.
He seems to disappear for months at a time, Must be some secret intel stuff where he goes, Like with the aliens on their commercials or something, then he shows again?? Very mysterious.
Friend of mine told me hardfourms have been down for 4 days?? But i will not go back. I couldnt anyway or would want to.
Man that same old sig its gotta be him.
= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
And i will ask again as i did a long time ago Raystonn. You work for intel, i think you told me development . Why do you not have a wonderchip from them that does 5ghz on air or something like that??
There are better things coming.
Ok when, I'll bite. And what?? something after Canterwood??
TechTones
12-08-2002, 08:37 PM
Ted you got a Vapochill over a Prometeia? Why?
I have an EVA3 phase cooler.
Tedinde
12-08-2002, 09:02 PM
The vapo PE i have is going to be used in a rig im building for someone for xmas, so free usage till then, an
Needed something all in one case, I know the prometeia is in one case, seen a few condensation problems in the prometeia in all the 20 forums i frequent. He's taking it back home 150 miles from me. I cant afford any problems with it. So that's why the Vapo.
My own rig i can monitor, tear down and check.
Im selling my chip in it @ 3500mhz, the guy has $$$, but not a clue about hardware, he just wants a killer computer, going to use it to compile software or something. Doesnt matter, what im selling it for will pay for a prometeia for me and a 3.06 chip and even a few xtra $$'s to boot. $3000 if you must know, IT7max board and 1 gig of ram, my old 120 gig 8 meg WD's. Clearing out my old stuff too. if you do the math, im making out.
So im using the vapo to try out and test. My chip wont go any higher with the prometeia or 12c colder temps like i see from everywhere. Numbers are exactly the same as what asustek states on the front page, so i know what i was getting with it.
I've tried colder with my swiftech mcw462-ut 226watt pelt, and 20lbs of dry ice in a 5 gallon resovour. Temps of -29c on the die did nothing for my chip. extra volts up to over 2volts did nothing either. 3750 max no matter what.
This PE version is quiet, no problems in the 3 weeks i've had it.
But i'd rather have a prometeia for future chips. i missed the boat on the shipment here last month for the prometeia for pre order but i'll have one by the 15th of this month.
Right now my chill control is holding @ -17.5 with F@H running and CPU is @ +8.5 60% fan.
Prometeia's about the same between the Evap and the cpu 20- 24 degrees difference as i've been seeing. But the prometeia i've noticed will hold the evap @ high -30's so cpu should be around -5 celsius under load If my math is right and all else being the same.
The ASUS 533 that's stable you saw, is it a new revision that's out yet?? And what would it do Max if had a chance to see??
TechTones
12-09-2002, 08:34 AM
Well Ted,
the serial number was 2BZ...so it was made in Nov. It still says version 1.03 on it but the PCB is a different color now. Not much but different.
He only ran the board up to 142/4x stable because that was the top for his cpu. Well on a PE board the CPU could do a little higher but it seems most of the 850E boards don't allow the highest O/C on CPU's like the TH7-II.
But, I ran Prime95 and looped 3Dmark at a bunch of different FSB's and it was way stable. There is also this Vcore overvolt jumper that allows like 1.80-185v. I did the pin Vcore hack on the chip in the board for 1.85v, and the Asus only allowed up to 1.85v in the bios but in windows it was giving the chip 1.94v!! Yes they seem to have "overvolted" the vcore on the newer boards to allow for low voltages it was supplying before.
Here are the changes on the new boards:
1. The DC/DC controller (vCore) is changed.
On the old board it was a Intercil HIP6302, on the new it's a RichTek RT9241, both rated at 25A, vCore accuracy of +/- 1%
2. Two capacitors (the ones closest to the memorybanks are slightly bigger 560 microfarad vs. 510
3. The power transistors close to the CPU socket (on each side of the 7 capacitor group) is now a Philips PHB96NQ03LT and o the old board it's a Infinion IPB05N03LA
4. Two surface mount capacitors (I assume, it could be jumpers but it's most likely it's capacitors) on the back side of the board, close to the memory banks.
They also come flashed with the latest 1005 bios that enables HT for the 3.06 and have enclosed a sheet of paper explaining it. If you're going to order one only do it from Newegg. They have the latest, newest stock.
Raystonn
12-09-2002, 11:05 AM
And i will ask again as i did a long time ago Raystonn. You work for intel, i think you told me development . Why do you not have a wonderchip from them that does 5ghz on air or something like that??Because then everyone would want one. :eek:
Ok when, I'll bite.Some time next year. ;)
And what?? something after Canterwood??It looks like some information on the Canterwood has already leaked out. Interesting.
My next upgrade will be the Prescott, with 800MHz System Bus, and a Canterwood chipset motherboard. The balanced memory bandwidth/FSB will offer the same benefits with DDR400 that we currently enjoy with RDRAM. The Canterwood will offer a high performance northbridge, edging out better memory performance than the Springdale chipsets, but for a premium. It also comes with other goodies.
-Raystonn
Tedinde
12-09-2002, 05:51 PM
Man i finally got info from raystonn. Guess were a smaller group here. You can give up the tapes.
Where you been hiding at. I know you cant keep your "personal" views quiet!!hehe
I usually upgrade if theres a chance of it being 1% faster, hehe, and usually burn something up in the process.
And will upgrade to whatever new chipsets come out in the future from day one.
The "new" 533 sounds better TECHTONES, but i had the 533-c and the 533, sold them both in customers computers stock. Both of them left a bad taste in my mouth with ASUS MB's
But I did order the Asus "granite bay" Vaporware board from Myinfinity, just in case it is a wonderboard. and as always they moved the ETA up again today. Not that i really ever expected them to have it.
Man i hate waiting for stuff.
The Gigabyte ga-81nxp just show up in hong kong for about 215usd
Phalanx28
12-13-2002, 10:06 AM
And in Australia as well - no word on price.
http://www.asusboards.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31064
Phalanx28
worthless
12-13-2002, 12:35 PM
ARGH!! Wouldn't you know, I finally break down and order an it7 max 2 v2.0, and now the gigabyte granite bay is showing on pricewatch from Royal Computers. A company I have dealt with before so I know they are legit.
They have it listed for $231 though OUCH. But I would pay it heh. Eta of 12/31 unfortunately.
Tedinde
12-13-2002, 11:03 PM
Has anyone migrated back to H?
Yeah right. If anyone was to go back, they should get "Sissy Fairy" put under their name.
I was the second one banned i think after JC.
And worthless, dont believe an eta. My ETA from My infinity moves up 3 days every time the ETA day gets here.
They're getting close, ted. I can get the MSI GNB Max, but from what I've read on it, I'm not touching that sucker.
8INXP is listed at major distros now too. No sight of the Asus, though...maybe myinfinity bought them all :)
TechTones
12-13-2002, 11:31 PM
Oh damn you don't know how conforting it is to see you and Ted in the same thread again :toast:
deeznuts
12-14-2002, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by Zroc
They're getting close, ted. I can get the MSI GNB Max, but from what I've read on it, I'm not touching that sucker.
8INXP is listed at major distros now too. No sight of the Asus, though...maybe myinfinity bought them all :)
woohoo! maybe i'll hold off on the PE for now, and wait till end of next week for the 8INXP. i've got a 2.8 so i'll probably won't need extreme FSB speeds anyway.
Aaron
01-01-2003, 08:44 PM
The gigabyte is at 269.00 right now and the Asus is back down to 229 at mycrapfinity (which strangly enough is still the only place listing them) I guess you guys were right they must have bought out Asus's entire inventory :stick:
I've read good reviews of both boards, sounds like alot of you like the Gigabyte over the Asus, I was gonna go with the Asus, only becuase I've never used Gigabyte before. Tell me, why do so many of you prefer the Gigabyte board?
Aaron
jdmcnudgent
01-02-2003, 02:15 PM
from the other thread i saw, here, i would say that it looks real nice for ddr. i dont like the price however.:(