View Full Version : Going to get dry ice now.. Any last minute tips?
afireinside
03-13-2005, 10:52 AM
I culdent get the tube to braze so I emlers glued it on. Charlie if this doesent hold I'm gona be pissed :p: So far so good but no ice yet. Leaving for some now. Anyone have anything important to tell me about it before I do it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/zero-IGN/P3120005.jpg
I know I forgot the plastic under the block...Hope it doesent bubble over :stick:
Vincentvega18
03-13-2005, 11:35 AM
Have fun........and remember not to put any in your drink, unless you want it "cold".
Evil_Spork
03-13-2005, 11:56 AM
becareful and have fun?
gclg2000
03-13-2005, 12:15 PM
elmer's glue?? Why couldn't you get it to braze?
twilius_basic
03-13-2005, 12:18 PM
I just tried it myself a few days ago for the first time. Make sure you insulated well; although I got my Claw up pretty high, it was acting flakey the whole time, and for a while afterward on the air-cooler. I think it was either a need of more insulation, or maybe my mounting wasn't optimal. I will try again sometime.
But yeah, load her up and have fun! :cool: It's a blast to use.
2fink
03-13-2005, 12:26 PM
open the windows if you make it indoor :)
have fun :toast:
Mag Master 21
03-13-2005, 12:27 PM
ill be waiting for results..
alexio
03-13-2005, 12:27 PM
Good luck :toast:
I just hope the glue holds at such low temps :stick:
afireinside
03-13-2005, 12:31 PM
I couoldent get it hot enough to braze... Is it supposed to make a grinding noise after I drop it in for a bit?
jkabaseball
03-13-2005, 12:35 PM
good luck, hope it goes well, don't forget pictures!
afireinside
03-13-2005, 12:39 PM
Taking lots :)
condensation will form very quickly, hope you have everything insulated and water-proofed.
afireinside
03-13-2005, 02:58 PM
Ok I had horrible mounting so I took the springs off and used just thumb nut things. -16C in BIOS but 15C load... wtf?
your bios is probably reading it wrong ;)
gclg2000
03-13-2005, 03:10 PM
you don't have a temp probe?
Geforce4ti4200
03-13-2005, 03:10 PM
your elemers glue is preventing the cold from making its way to the cpu. you need something with good thermal properties and make physical contact on the metal
afireinside
03-13-2005, 03:19 PM
Do you know anything about DIce? The heat transfer is done thru the plate mostly :stick: cant be hurting me much. BIOS idles 2C now. 3ghz is in the bag now for more. Gota try more Vcore...
You can do a "pre-heat" by setting it on the eye of a stove for a while if your torch won't get it hot enough to braze on it's own ;)
If you must "glue"... use Arctic Silver Epoxy...
afireinside
03-13-2005, 03:31 PM
I'm gona get a hot plate and braze it for next time. I need help now tho. BIOS temps are wrong yes but not completely. I had it at -20C for a bit but now its 5C...
IvanAndreevich
03-13-2005, 03:53 PM
afireinside
Those temps are too high for dry ice, aren't they? I have never done it myself, just my impression..
afireinside
03-13-2005, 03:57 PM
Yes they are... Theres something seriouly wrong here :stick:I shut it off, added some ice (I figured out how small to make them at last) and booted at -11C...
Howcome the 150 and 140 ram dividers show up as -300 fsb on my board?
Pi at 3030 I'm getting somewhere... 5C load now. I think my DIce pieces have been to big.
afireinside
03-13-2005, 04:17 PM
Was getting something in windows anmd the plate defrosted. What am I doing wrong?
conrad.maranan
03-13-2005, 04:34 PM
What are you mixing in with the DI?
The Doctor
03-13-2005, 04:35 PM
Was getting something in windows anmd the plate defrosted. What am I doing wrong?
Did you use a liquid like acetone or ethanol?
Geforce4ti4200
03-13-2005, 04:36 PM
My friend Mike used dry ice and he was getting -68c with his fx55 and hit around 3.5GHz, supprised and impressed him too. 5c isnt even good, sorry to say
Kunaak
03-13-2005, 04:39 PM
you used elmers glue to make a dry ice container ?
whats the level of your fluid to dry ice?
you barely need any fluid, about a half inch or so at best.
alittle does alot better then too much fluid.
the fluid will last along time, the more you put in, the faster it eats up the dry ice and the worse your temps are.
in this case, less is more.
afireinside
03-13-2005, 04:58 PM
Ok I took it off and contact was HORRIBLE. How do I get the thermal greese to stick to the cold plate so I can remount?
Geforce4ti4200
03-13-2005, 05:12 PM
use arctic silver or alluminia and springs or screws to bolt it down to the cpu and mobo
afireinside
03-13-2005, 05:20 PM
I'm using cremique and bolts... I'm not stupid. The cremique wont stick to the plate. Is it to cold?
lalPOOO
03-13-2005, 05:41 PM
You're going to have to dry the tube off and warm it up. If its cold already then theres a probably a layer of water on the bottom of it preventing proper contact.
You didn't seriously use this stuff did you?
http://wardsci.com/images/150/159806webM.JPG
It doesn't need to stick to the plate... put it on your processor, use a razor blade to spread it evenly and thin, be sure the plate is dry, then remount that puppy and fly :)
afireinside
03-13-2005, 05:50 PM
torched the plate warm and it worked. Now my computer isint working :stick:
Woops forgot to plug pump in for GPU... Still not working :(
Video card is fine. 9600xt doesewnt work either. This isint good...
Read this (http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=55919) to see about revival ;)
twilius_basic
03-13-2005, 06:26 PM
Afireinside,
I used the same mobo, with the latest stock BIOS on it (If/when I mod PSU 3.3v rail or get new PSU I'll need a modded BIOS). I don't have a temp probe, so I just had to trust the BIOS, Smartguardian goes ape:banana::banana::banana::banana: with DI, says 209C or something :D My temps were -40C to -42C at stock Vcore, -36C to -38C with 1.725-1.75V. I don't know if that's actually right but I also don't have a way to check. I didn't really know if my mounting was good (completely flush) or if I used enough spring tension.... I did crank them down decently. Anyways, I just trusted it was ok and went ahead. It did frost over and stay frosted during my benches. My unit has a 2.5x4in. base that is 5/16" thick, brazed to a 2.5" copper tube..... works ok, not as good as Chilly1's, but it was cheap :D
I think you should be getting at least *somewhat* better temps... maybe try remounting it?
Hope you get things working again :)
Oh yeah, before I forget, I was using Acetone as the liquid. Don't know if that would hurt your Elmer's or not....
afireinside
03-13-2005, 06:38 PM
Charlie said elmers glue is fine. When the DIce hits it it freezes rock solid. I can swing the tube around with the base staying on no problem.
afireinside
03-13-2005, 07:26 PM
Well I'm done. No clue if my mobo still works or not. Back was a bit damn. Round 2 next weekend. Need better insulation, brazed tube, and gpu vmods.
lalPOOO
03-13-2005, 07:52 PM
Bust out a hairdryer and heat your mobo up :)
afireinside
03-13-2005, 08:23 PM
Already done. Not enough time to try water again tonight. Want to let it air out anyway...
gclg2000
03-13-2005, 09:38 PM
Dude you've got to lose the elmer's glue, i'd be scared of that. If your desperate, ship the tube to one of us and we can braze it for you. Many of us (including me) have oxy / acet torches.
OR...
There is this green compound i used once, to to join brass fittings to copper surface. It's "oil" and "glue" like. Anyways, you put it in the oven and heat it to 250 F for 30 min then let cool. I used that on my water block's i custom made a while back. I don't remember the name of the stuff, but maybe someone can recommend it. Not sure how good it would work at -70 C though.
afireinside
03-13-2005, 09:49 PM
I'm gona get a hot plate this week and braze it. How much are oxy and acetylene tanks and where do you get them filled? The torch kits are pretty cheap on ebay but I need the gas...
gclg2000
03-13-2005, 10:05 PM
Welding shop/supply store. The gas itself is cheap.
Susquehannock
03-14-2005, 02:37 AM
If you're gonna get oxy/acetylene bottles you may as well get the CO2 as well.
One of those bag attachments to make the dry ice is only about $20 last time I looked.
Damn we used to have fun with those and some 2 liter plastic pepsi bottles. ;)
Y.H.Pats
03-14-2005, 03:24 AM
Ideal scenario : do it outside on a freezing cold day - little chance of condensation (anything condensible is already condensed).
Next best : Get your room as cold as poss, to reduce condensation.
afireinside
03-14-2005, 05:57 AM
If you're gonna get oxy/acetylene bottles you may as well get the CO2 as well.
One of those bag attachments to make the dry ice is only about $20 last time I looked.
Damn we used to have fun with those and some 2 liter plastic pepsi bottles. ;)
Link? I want one :D
gclg2000
03-14-2005, 07:11 AM
Not sure of teh quality...but....
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3395
charlie
03-14-2005, 07:40 AM
hehehehehe.... the elmers glue works fine! I've done it a zillion times!! In fact you know my FX55@3709 w/ LN2, that's with glue!!!!! I do it because i have different tubes and different baseplates that I swap around....
It's not the BEST, but it certainly DOES work.... hehehehe...
yee of little faith....
See piccie: indeed I ASSURE you it works :D
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23855
charlie
03-14-2005, 08:31 AM
For curious peeps, thought I'd give some more info:
Do the math! The surface area the Dry Ice/Fluid contacts is the inner diameter of the tube, 1.25x1.25x3.14=4.9in2
Now calculate the area of the thinwall copper tube that contacts the baseplate
7.85x.0625=.49in2
The amount of surface area of the tube/base is 10% of the base contact area with the DI. Now, the copper tube STILL contacts the base physically when "glued", but certainly not with the kind of contact as when brazed. So IMO, brazing the tube will give approx 5-8% more contact area with the DI/Fluid.
In my case, I ordered from onlinemetals.com and got a LOAD of different baseplates, from .375 to .750 thickness in shapes that would fit A64/LGA775/S478 applications. I also got thin walled, thick walled copper pipe from 2" - 3"...
I have several brazed DI tubes, and honestly see no performance edge compared to my temporary "modular" tubes.... having said that, it is merely a temporary way of testing a new baseplate or pipe and shouldn't be considered a permanent solution. The acetone or alk will damage the glue and after it thaws it will basically fall apart. ln2 is SOO cold that sometimes it simply cracks it... so you have to use a bit of caution when doing it this way, it's MY WAY of testing parts and pieces, but that's just ME.
charlie
03-14-2005, 08:35 AM
Afireinside,
Here's your likely problem, were you using DI chunks or pellets? If you had 1 or 2cm of fluid in the bottom and you broke up maybe 6 irregular chunks maybe 1/2" x 3/4" you will have terrible temps. The area of the ice that touches the tube is too small, in fact the area that touches the heat transfer fluid is too small. You NEED crushed DI or pellets... maybe 1/3 to 1/2 tube full of pellets and 1 or 2 cm of fluid.
And condensation certainly WILL end the show early.... most of the time the rig will work when dried.... unless condensation got under caps in which case, poof!! You should NEVER have a naked mobo contacting the baseplate, always use insulation and fans in the area!
xxORBxx
03-14-2005, 09:59 AM
Charlie, you truely are a Dry Ice master.
Afire did you get all your HW working again? What was the prob. Hopeuflly the next run will go a little smoother.
uclajd
03-14-2005, 11:56 AM
Going to get dry ice now.. Any last minute tips?
"Do not lick."
:lol:
afireinside
03-14-2005, 11:56 AM
I have to go get my mouth drilled and stabbed with needles by the dentist soon so I'll try on water when I get home.
I figured I wasent getting good contact with the liquid to chunks but by the time I figured out that I needed way smaller pieces it wouldent work :(
The first time is always just a learning experience from what I've read from Kunaak/charlie...takes a couple runs to get the hang of it...:thumbsup:
You got any pics to share though anyway? :cool:
afireinside
03-14-2005, 03:15 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/zero-IGN/P3120006.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/zero-IGN/P3120011.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v448/zero-IGN/P3120009.jpg
Gavinni
03-14-2005, 05:43 PM
Holy crap are u still alive? Is there any air that can get out of that tube? If not you got quite a lethal bomb on your hands.
gkiing
03-31-2005, 05:58 PM
Holy crap are u still alive? Is there any air that can get out of that tube? If not you got quite a lethal bomb on your hands.
I do hope you didn't seal off the top too. If you can't get it hot eneough to braze just use silver solder or lead-free solder and a flux paste. You should be able to solder that with a regular hand held propane torch. You don't need an oxy/fuel torch for this.
twilius_basic
03-31-2005, 06:44 PM
I do hope you didn't seal off the top too. If you can't get it hot eneough to braze just use silver solder or lead-free solder and a flux paste. You should be able to solder that with a regular hand held propane torch. You don't need an oxy/fuel torch for this.
Lol @ thread resurrection.
Actually, when I had some local welders braze my pipe+base together for me, they said that it required a lot more heat than they initially thought it would, and that the copper just kept sucking and sucking up the heat :cool: He eventually put away the handheld set and got out his oxy set to do it.