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zoom314
03-16-2005, 07:48 AM
HI

I must say the Sapphire version look great with a very lovely colour but my EQS M56K9-MLF is running smooth

ATi xpress 200 chipset(RS480) is the best chipset i seem so far , Value for Money.

Just last night I was playing Half Life 2 on it with the onboard graphics still running smoothly with DX 9.0 support from the Hardware.

Anyway EQScomputers.com is avaliable in Europe.
ATX version also out now called M58K9-MLF :banana:

Question is, What southbridge chip do You have in It and is It overclockable?

Abraxas
03-16-2005, 12:48 PM
Good, that means by July (my vacation month), all the bugs should have been found and rung out, so I can buy one with confidence (maybe). :slobber:

As long as its out before Quake Con, then alright! :D

zabomb4163
03-16-2005, 03:54 PM
And what exactly is that world record? :D

OPP

your guess is as good as mine. the highest HT ive seen is 450, but i dont think that was on air.

spytech
03-17-2005, 09:38 AM
is it safe to assume that this board will be out at the same time as the venice core? since i am waiting for venice i guess i can wait to see what the grouper can do paired with venice.

when will this board go out to reviewers? and the specs on the first page of this thread, will they be final?

Franky 4 Finger
03-17-2005, 09:44 AM
Is this board actually going to show up in the retail market?

zoom314
03-17-2005, 12:24 PM
I think Grayskull has said that earlier. And I'd hate to be disappointed really as I'm thinking of buying, Not one, But two of them. Asap when I can.

Caper
03-17-2005, 01:02 PM
It would be very dissapointing if this board doesn´t shows up in the retail market.
I know for sure that I am willing to be a "guinea pig" with this board!

Psyche911
03-17-2005, 03:58 PM
is it safe to assume that this board will be out at the same time as the venice core? since i am waiting for venice i guess i can wait to see what the grouper can do paired with venice.

when will this board go out to reviewers? and the specs on the first page of this thread, will they be final?

I'm quite sure it will show up after Venice. But hopefully close after. Possibly both next month, if I remember correctly.

zoom314
03-17-2005, 04:11 PM
I'm quite sure it will show up after Venice. But hopefully close after. Possibly both next month, if I remember correctly.

Venice? Nah, I'm waiting for San Diego later in this half of 2005, Mainly the FX-57 2.8GHz which should overclock to between 3.5GHz and 4.4GHz I've read, But of course that would be LightSpeed territory quite possibly.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/styleone/roadmap.gif

3FFeX
03-17-2005, 04:12 PM
*subscribing*

If one decides to use the full watercooling kit; wouldn't the extra heat from the mosfets added to the loop cancel out any potential OC-gain? Or is this system designed for separate cooling loops?

2 rads , 2 pumps 2 loops ; p

kraggy
03-17-2005, 04:51 PM
Ok, stupid question time. Last time I heard ATI was NOT gonna make a 939 socket mobo with the ATI chipset. I have not seen anything in this thread or the discription that says this mobo is a 939 socket mobo. Did I miss something??

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 05:05 PM
Yes, this is a different chipset.

clockedOut
03-17-2005, 05:07 PM
Ok, stupid question time. Last time I heard ATI was NOT gonna make a 939 socket mobo with the ATI chipset. I have not seen anything in this thread or the discription that says this mobo is a 939 socket mobo. Did I miss something??

ATI is NOT making ANY mobo's.... this is a Sapphire mobo. ATI is ONLY making chipsets for mobo's.

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 05:39 PM
I believe he was talking about ATI not releasing any more boards for 939 with the rs350 chipset, but i beleive this new motherboard is rs480, or xpress 200?

that last comment was not needed. That's like saying ati does not make graphics cards, or AMD does not make CPU's...in actuality, these companies just design the processors, so your point is rather redundant. :stick:

clockedOut
03-17-2005, 05:46 PM
Well Grayskull made it VERY clear that ATI would not be making any mobo. They are only making the chipsets.

Ummmm, last time I checked ATI did make video cards and AMD does make CPU's so I guess I dont get your point.
:toast:

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 05:52 PM
uh, sapphire/powercolor/tul make the boards for ati, AFAIK. TMSC makes the actual GPU. I still fail to see your logic.

perkam
03-17-2005, 05:53 PM
Doesnt really matter if ATi makes mobo or not, its gonna have the same chipset anyway. Also, macci, fugger, and opp were ALL overclocking on boards with the ATI chipset so I imagine they shouldnt be too bad :D Though the only thing that'll interest ppl to go RX48x over nf4 is the MVP boards which allow dual ATI vid cards.

Perkam

kraggy
03-17-2005, 06:11 PM
OK, my bad, I know that ATI just designs the chips/chipsets...actually Sapphire is now making all of ATI's so called in-house cards...all of them, ATI no longer makes cards. I read an on-line article about it a few weeks ago.

But anyways.....my point being that "is there or is there not going to be an ATI chipset mobo for AMD!"

The mobo featured in this thread is a Intel socket...right?

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 06:13 PM
no, amd. radeon xpress 200 will have incarnations in all a64 platforms, including 754, according to the original info given back in november. I think Xbit may have had an article...but here's ati's press release:


RADEON® XPRESS™ 200M drives a new class of integrated graphics and power management for PCI Express-based AMD mobile platforms

MARKHAM, Ontario--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb. 17, 2005-- ATI Technologies Inc. (TSX:ATY) (NASDAQ:ATYT), the world leader for notebook PC graphics, today announced the introduction of RADEON® XPRESS™ 200M - the industry's first integrated PCI Express DirectX 9 chipset for AMD (NYSE: AMD) processor-based notebook PCs. Designed to support a range of form factors, RADEON XPRESS 200M delivers industry-leading RADEON graphics and POWERPLAY 5.0 power management for a best-in-class mobile user experience. Flexible in design, RADEON XPRESS 200M supports all currently available Mobile AMD Athlon™ 64 processors and Mobile AMD Sempron™ processors. Due to its power management functionality, RADEON XPRESS 200M is ideally suited for thin and light notebooks powered by forthcoming AMD Turion™ 64 mobile technology.

RADEON XPRESS 200M for AMD will be available from such leading OEMs and ODMs as HP, Sharp, Medion, Acer, Targa, Gateway, NEC, Mitac, Arima, MSI, Compal, Quanta and Wistron.

"ATI is now offering a leading edge PCI Express mobile solution with excellent performance, lightning-fast onboard DirectX 9 graphics and innovative power management," said Marty Seyer, vice president and general manager, Microprocessor Business Unit, Computation Products Group, AMD. "Together with the upcoming AMD Turion 64 mobile technology, we're helping highly mobile PC customers embrace thin and light platforms for powerful system performance, broad connectivity and superior multimedia capabilities."

With the introduction of RADEON XPRESS 200M, ATI delivers onboard RADEON X300 class visual performance and features. This visual performance is complimented by POWERPLAY 5.0, an innovation in power management for PCI Express. Through new capabilities such as Dynamic Lane Count Switching (DLCS), power is adjusted on the fly to reduce GPU power consumption by up to 30 per cent.

"ATI has long been a pioneer in integrated chipset technology on notebooks," said Phil Eisler, Senior Vice President and General Manager, Integrated and Mobile Business Unit, ATI Technologies. "Through working closely with AMD on the development of these chipsets we have a compelling platform to harness the performance of present and future generations of mobile AMD processors."

RADEON XPRESS 200M is currently available from Sharp in their Mebius PCXG-70H and Mebius PCXG-50H media center notebook PCs.

About ATI Technologies

ATI Technologies Inc. is the world leader in the design and manufacture of innovative 3D graphics and digital media silicon solutions. An industry pioneer since 1985, ATI is the world's foremost graphics processor unit (GPU) provider and is dedicated to delivering leading-edge performance solutions for the full range of PC and Mac desktop and notebook platforms, workstation, set-top and digital television, game console and handheld device markets. With 2004 revenues of US $2 billion, ATI has more than 2,700 employees in the Americas, Europe and Asia. ATI common shares trade on NASDAQ (ATYT) and the Toronto Stock Exchange (ATY).

Copyright 2005 ATI Technologies Inc. All rights reserved. ATI and ATI product and product feature names are trademarks and/or registered trademarks of ATI Technologies Inc. All other company and product names are trademarks and/or registered trademarks of their respective owners. Features, pricing, availability and specifications are subject to change without notice.

For media or industry analyst support, visit our Web site at http://www.ati.com

CONTACT: ATI Technologies Inc.
Jon Carvill, Public Relations Manager,
Integrated and Mobile Business Unit
(905) 882-2600, Ext. 8477
jcarvill@ati.com
OR
Other ATI Contacts:
Porter Novelli Canada
Derek Baker, Senior Consultant
(416) 422-7158
derek.baker@porternovelli.com
OR
For investor relations support, please contact:
ATI Technologies Inc.
Janet Craig, Director, Investor Relations
(905) 882-2600, Ext. 2631
jcraig@ati.com

SOURCE: ATI Technologies Inc.


please note that this release is for the "m" version, and that should be 754 platform. There are 2 other versions for desktop, one with intergrated video, one without.

Finally, check out this article:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=88&type=expert

enough info for ya? :stick:

zoom314
03-17-2005, 06:20 PM
My next PC upgrade of zoom1 will have these parts(zoom4 will be nearly the same and be air cooled only):

zoom1: XP-M 2600+ cpu (2.59GHz @ 1.95vdc), DFI NFII Ultra Infinity A+(01/21/04 Bios)
JPAC 500w PSU, Kingston 256MB PC3200 Dimm
[Upgrade: Sapphire Grouper Motherboard[Radeon Xpress 200 chipset], OCZ 520w PSU, FX-57, Vapochill LS(FX-57),
CoolerMaster Aquagate Water Cooling System (ALC-U01) for NB Chip & Mosfets],
G.skill PC4400 512Mb Dimm, Lian-Li PC-7a black atx case(Modded for Vapochill LS)
zoom2: A64 3200+ cpu @ 2.34Ghz, MSI K8T Neo2-F(3.3 Bios)
Aspire 520w PSU(35A on the 12v rail), Buffalo Hynix 256MB PC3200 Dimm
zoom3: 2-244 1.8Ghz Opteron cpus @ 4.02GHz, MSI K8T Master2-FAR(1.35b Bios)
Enermax 460w PSU(33A on the 12v rail), Corsair CMX512RE-3200LL 512MB PC3200 Dimm
zoom4: soon FX-57 2.8GHz cpu, Sapphire Grouper Motherboard[Radeon Xpress 200 chipset] motherboard],
G.skill PC4400 512Mb Dimm, XP-120 & 2-120mm 220cfm fans, 1-80-120mm adapter, 20Gb 7200rpm hdd,
OCZ 520w PSU, Lian-Li PC-7a black atx case.

What do Yous gus think of this?

kraggy
03-17-2005, 06:23 PM
Thank you, I hope they release a ATI - AMR version in a 939 socket. If they do I will be dumping these 2 6800-U. :banana: :banana:

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 06:27 PM
should be here by fall, i hope. putting money aside for that build now!

kraggy
03-17-2005, 06:32 PM
should be here by fall, i hope. putting money aside for that build now!

Awwww man...I need to go change my shorts! :p: All this time I thought it was gonna be a Intel socket + AMR only solution! wOOOOOt! :banana:

Yeah! :D

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 06:38 PM
I don't think intel and AMR or SLi work well together because of the difference in mem control, but that's just my opinion. I also think that's why nvidia released the amd version first..because the amd version is faster. Anyway, there is no officail word on which cpu they will support, but AMD makes the most sense.

zoom314
03-17-2005, 08:10 PM
I don't think intel and AMR or SLi work well together because of the difference in mem control, but that's just my opinion. I also think that's why nvidia released the amd version first..because the amd version is faster. Anyway, there is no officail word on which cpu they will support, but AMD makes the most sense.

The real reason the Nforce4 for AMD came out 1st is cause Intel wouldn't give a license to Nvidia until Intel wanted to just recently as Intel likes to control who makes chipsets for Intels cpus, If that is what You are referring to that is. Me I'll stick with AMD, Intel makes chips that sound like they are quicker on paper, But in reality It's still the MHz myth coming into play still.

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 08:12 PM
lol..you telling me nvidia could have not delayed the release of SLI in AMD format until the same time as intel format? liscencing played a small roll, but it not all the story, imho. only nvidia knows the truth. They would not waste the money they spent if they could not get a liscence. These deals were formed months ago, not just recently. They just got the pci-e certification for the chipset, AFAIK.

uwackme
03-17-2005, 08:13 PM
The power of PCIe is immense. AMR SLI whatever. Its possible to take a board with 2 x16 slots, run them as x8 each (16 paths total) but assign x6 to CPU access on each and set up a x4 direct connect between the two boards to "stream" the video signal from board A to board B for incorporation into a net signal to a monitor.

NVidia's "SLI" bridge just removes the added burden from the PCIe lanes, but frankly as has been seen with the x16 x2 experiment on early DFI non-SLI hacked boards, the throughput to even a x2 video card is PLENTY, so x6 will be fine and leave open the AMR or SLI type feature without even bothering with a brdige board.

The ultimate would be 2 dual DVI X850XTPE's AMR'd and 2 30" Apple LCD's (each the equivalent of 2 DVI LCD monitors on one substrate) running a huge 7200x1600 desktop at immense speeds.

cadaveca
03-17-2005, 08:15 PM
80inch lcd, my man 80 inch.

HARDCORECLOCKER
03-18-2005, 01:34 AM
Venice? Nah, I'm waiting for San Diego later in this half of 2005, Mainly the FX-57 2.8GHz which should overclock to between 3.5GHz and 4.4GHz I've read, But of course that would be LightSpeed territory quite possibly.



:slobber: Where did You get that information from ??? :toast:

EQS-Bob
03-18-2005, 02:47 AM
no, amd. radeon xpress 200 will have incarnations in all a64 platforms, including 754, according to the original info given back in november. I think Xbit may have had an article...but here's ati's press release:



Hi EQS is going to have the Socket 754 on Ati Xpress 200 as well around mid april time

Here is one thread in the EQS forum:

http://www.eqscomputers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=347&sid=0b2f9e388ec5e5ddafde6bbf85907bda

:banana:

Ad Rock
03-18-2005, 02:51 AM
Just saw this thread and had to state how beautiful that board looks. If these boards prove to be more stable than the Lanparty's I think I might become a HUGE ati fanboy.

situman
03-18-2005, 05:03 AM
come on ATI folks, give us come updates. Its been a while.

zoom314
03-18-2005, 05:52 AM
Ok, stupid question time. Last time I heard ATI was NOT gonna make a 939 socket mobo with the ATI chipset. I have not seen anything in this thread or the discription that says this mobo is a 939 socket mobo. Did I miss something??

ATi just make Chips now, Sapphire is going to make this Grouper motherboard as It's their baby and It's a socket 939 as I'm sure Grayskull has or will back Me up on this as 754 is soon to be dead. There are pictures of this motherboard with a cpu and no waterblocks that show this to be a s939 motherboard on Hexus.net(CeBIT 2005 coverage), It's Not an Intel motherboard.

Quote Hexus: Under the Fatality heatsink and fan, we found an AMD K8 939 socket giving Support for Desktop and Mobile CPU’s.Un-Quote
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMDUw

http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationalevents/cebit_hannover_2005/store/grouper7.jpg

zoom314
03-18-2005, 06:00 AM
:slobber: Where did You get that information from ??? :toast:
The 3.5 and 4.4 was someones speculation I think on ocworkbench.tw, That's why I typed the word between, It may get there with a Vapochill LS and nothing less.

tictac
03-18-2005, 06:02 AM
if it is intel.., he wont post it on AMD forums :slap:

common sense

HARDCORECLOCKER
03-18-2005, 06:06 AM
ATi just make Chips now, Sapphire is going to make this Grouper motherboard as It's their baby and It's a socket 939 as I'm sure Grayskull has or will back Me up on this as 754 is soon to be dead. There are pictures of this motherboard with a cpu and no waterblocks that show this to be a s939 motherboard on Hexus.net(CeBIT 2005 coverage), It's Not an Intel motherboard.

Quote Hexus: Under the Fatality heatsink and fan, we found an AMD K8 939 socket giving Support for Desktop and Mobile CPU’s.Un-Quote
http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMDUw

http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationalevents/cebit_hannover_2005/store/grouper7.jpg

:D THX for the pic - now everybody who isn't plagued with blindness can spot the AMD CPU............. :toast:

Gokou
03-18-2005, 06:41 AM
The 3.5 and 4.4 was someones speculation I think on ocworkbench.tw, That's why I typed the word between, It may get there with a Vapochill LS and nothing less.
To get the A64 architechure to 4.4 you will need strain silicon, a beefy array of phase changers a hope and a prayer.

Not gonna happen. Maybe by the end of the single core line we will get to 4ghzish unstable.

HARDCORECLOCKER
03-18-2005, 07:00 AM
To get the A64 architechure to 4.4 you will need strain silicon, a beefy array of phase changers a hope and a prayer.

Not gonna happen. Maybe by the end of the single core line we will get to 4ghzish unstable.

:D Most of all hope and prayer........., even for 4GHz some day.

:toast:

kraggy
03-18-2005, 07:53 AM
Common sense doesn't happen to often on the internet...I learned a long time ago never to assume....you know what happens when somebody A.S.S.U.M.E.S. don't you.... :D

There is only one problem with the above pic.....its missing an extra PCI-E slot...if it had that it would be perfect!!

BTW, whats up with all of the 1x pci-e slots??? I havent' even seen any hardware that requires one...why do they put rthem on the boards, they are just wasting space.

zoom314
03-18-2005, 08:11 AM
Common sense doesn't happen to often on the internet...I learned a long time ago never to assume....you know what happens when somebody A.S.S.U.M.E.S. don't you.... :D

There is only one problem with the above pic.....its missing an extra PCI-E slot...if it had that it would be perfect!!

BTW, whats up with all of the 1x pci-e slots??? I havent' even seen any hardware that requires one...why do they put them on the boards, they are just wasting space.

The above pic looks fine to Me so why would one more pci-e or should I say Express slot make any difference? Most high end 16x cards that I've seen take up 2 slots due to their cooling fans using the 2nd slot as an exhaust port, So It looks fine as It is.

As to 1x slots, sure there are a whole two, later on someone will want a 1x card and so they are there, After all some are better than none I would think.

cadaveca
03-18-2005, 09:10 AM
if it is intel.., he wont post it on AMD forums :slap:

common sense


LoL nothing is obvious here. :stick: :D

HARDCORECLOCKER
03-18-2005, 09:13 AM
LoL nothing is obvious here. :stick: :D

:D lol :D

kraggy
03-18-2005, 12:25 PM
The above pic looks fine to Me so why would one more pci-e or should I say Express slot make any difference?


Hellooooo, Mcfly, are you in there?

Does the phrase "ATI-AMR" do anything for ya?? :stick:

Oh, thats right....there is no common sense here.... :p:

zoom314
03-18-2005, 12:38 PM
Hellooooo, Mcfly, are you in there?

Does the phrase "ATI-AMR" do anything for ya?? :stick:

Oh, thats right....there is no common sense here.... :p:

Now I know what PC, AGP, PCI-E, PCI-X and what ATi means, But AMR?

Please pray tell enlighten us oh wise ..... :banana4: :banana4:

jjcom
03-18-2005, 12:43 PM
I believe it stands for ATi Multi Rendering

jjcom

kraggy
03-18-2005, 12:44 PM
I believe it stands for ATi Multi Rendering

jjcom

Correct-a-mundo!!

zoom314...its a good thing you didnt' assume....Heh! :p:

HARDCORECLOCKER
03-18-2005, 12:47 PM
:confused: Always Many Rubbish............ :toast:

zoom314
03-18-2005, 01:00 PM
:confused: Always Many Rubbish............ :toast:

Always Many Reproductions............. :banana4:

Arkangyl
03-18-2005, 01:16 PM
Hopefully I'll be able to find a red, not white, version of this board somewhere. But I'm thinking this beauty may be my s939 upgrade path :P

nice work all you ATI guys, that board looks amazing

HARDCORECLOCKER
03-18-2005, 01:41 PM
Hopefully I'll be able to find a red, not white, version of this board somewhere. But I'm thinking this beauty may be my s939 upgrade path :P

nice work all you ATI guys, that board looks amazing

:D Try to cook it, gettin' red easily then...... :p:

:toast:

trakslacker
03-18-2005, 02:06 PM
apparently AMR is now going by the name MVP, and even this isn't the final name. Stands for Multiple or Multi-VPU.

LowRun
03-18-2005, 03:33 PM
Hopefully I'll be able to find a red, not white, version of this board somewhere. But I'm thinking this beauty may be my s939 upgrade path :P

nice work all you ATI guys, that board looks amazing

I'd even take it pink with green dots if it performs like expected :hehe:

SLaY3r07
03-18-2005, 05:44 PM
apparently AMR is now going by the name MVP, and even this isn't the final name. Stands for Multiple or Multi-VPU.

I think that might be Asus just trying to be different but I could be wrong...

Ad Rock
03-18-2005, 09:05 PM
Hellooooo, Mcfly, are you in there?

Does the phrase "ATI-AMR" do anything for ya?? :stick:

Oh, thats right....there is no common sense here.... :p:

Yep I noticed that too ( the lack of a second 16x PCI-E slot). Although perhaps they will be doing something similar to the Lanparty's with Ultra and SLI/AVR except being smart about it and NOT putting dual PCI-E slots on both mobo's.

I do not really care since I do not plan on running dual card's anytime soon, I just want this board!

SLaY3r07
03-18-2005, 09:09 PM
I do not really care since I do not plan on running dual card's anytime soon, I just want this board!

Same here. This board is too good to pass up :banana:

zoom314
03-18-2005, 09:26 PM
Yeah Me too, And from What I've seen, Nvidia I think said It would double the performance by having two cards, In reality I've seen about a 50-60% or less increase, Besides one card with 2 GPUs seems to do the same and with less problems due to heat from a 2nd card being trapped under the 1st or Top card. In any case I'll buy at least one of these Sapphire Grouper motherboards depending on How much cash I have when I'm able to do It.

Jort
03-19-2005, 05:46 AM
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Cebit2005/Day5/images/sapp_gruper2.jpg

anybody saw the power and resetbutton already? :D

dippyskoodlez
03-19-2005, 05:57 AM
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Cebit2005/Day5/images/sapp_gruper2.jpg

anybody saw the power and resetbutton already? :D


ooo... I hope they keep that... one of the best features of the dfi boards.... :D

Tony
03-19-2005, 06:07 AM
Been promised one next week maybe, if ATI let me post about it i will do a thread like the DFI etc.

I can also tell you many of the features on the board were implemented with the help from a few chosen enthusiasts, I helped with voltage regulation and ram overclocking, the mosfets being grouped and water cooled was just one of the things that made it to this board.

Lets hope it clocks as good as it looks ;)

eva2000
03-19-2005, 06:15 AM
Been promised one next week maybe, if ATI let me post about it i will do a thread like the DFI etc.

I can also tell you many of the features on the board were implemented with the help from a few chosen enthusiasts, I helped with voltage regulation and ram overclocking, the mosfets being grouped and water cooled was just one of the things that made it to this board.

Lets hope it clocks as good as it looks ;)
me wants one too :D

love the power/reset buttons a must!

SLaY3r07
03-19-2005, 06:23 AM
me wants one too :D

love the power/reset buttons a must!

I think a lot of people want this board too :banana:

HARDCORECLOCKER
03-19-2005, 06:33 AM
:D Hm, anyone found some test of pre-released sample yet ???

:toast:

LowRun
03-19-2005, 06:46 AM
Been promised one next week maybe, if ATI let me post about it i will do a thread like the DFI etc.

I can also tell you many of the features on the board were implemented with the help from a few chosen enthusiasts, I helped with voltage regulation and ram overclocking, the mosfets being grouped and water cooled was just one of the things that made it to this board.

Lets hope it clocks as good as it looks ;)

If the board performs, they could only benefit from such a thread, best bang for the buck marketing campaign by far ;)

mcnbns
03-19-2005, 06:51 AM
Dude! ATi would be insane not to give us a sneak peek. Keep the info, coming all.

Has anyone heard of a release date? Is my assuming a couple months from now a little optimistic?

Jort
03-19-2005, 07:11 AM
yeah the buttons are a must!
now i have to use a screwdriver to powerup and reset :p:

edit: can they replace it with some more solid buttons or is it just a preview of what kind of features the board has

zoom314
03-19-2005, 07:18 AM
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Cebit2005/Day5/images/sapp_gruper2.jpg

anybody saw the power and resetbutton already? :D

Yeah, seen It. Question is, What is that 8pin Dip socket for?

Jort
03-19-2005, 07:31 AM
thats for unlocking locked cpu's
or bringing your cpu to oc'ings heaven :D

Revv23
03-19-2005, 08:09 AM
lol i wish, that would be pretty nice :p:


im pretty sure i could make love to this board, i need a new mobo in 1 month, and i hope to god that this is out by then.

krille
03-19-2005, 08:16 AM
Man what a beauty! It'll prolly give DFI a run for its money. (Wc blocks bundled?)

Don't missunderstand me now, but has anything important been said in this thread? I mean, would it be worth reading the thread, or is it just full of "whoas" and rumors? When is the release date? You should put some sort of FAQ in the beginning.

:toast:

zoom314
03-19-2005, 08:20 AM
Man what a beauty! It'll prolly give DFI a run for its money. (Wc blocks bundled?)

Don't missunderstand me now, but has anything important been said in this thread? I mean, would it be worth reading the thread, or is it just full of "whoas" and rumors? When is the release date? You should put some sort of FAQ in the beginning.

:toast:

No. Air cooling is stock.

uwackme
03-19-2005, 08:23 AM
It says what it's for right on it.... SB PCIe eeprom.

Be nice to see these start showing up in the market. About fking time a builtin video motherboard had DVI connector.

If it were on sale today i'd buy it, then get around to nailing a X850XT pciE later.

Kosmic71
03-19-2005, 09:36 AM
http://forums.bigfootcomputers.com/images/smilies/tnfj/canada.gif

berk
03-19-2005, 10:21 AM
Nice board,eh?

gundamit
03-19-2005, 11:01 AM
yeah the buttons are a must!
now i have to use a screwdriver to powerup and reset :p:

edit: can they replace it with some more solid buttons or is it just a preview of what kind of features the board has Yeah! I need a big jumbo fluorescent (think Playschool) style reset button that I can stab at angrily every time I push the mobo too far. :p:

jjcom
03-19-2005, 11:44 AM
The buttons are a nice feature, if removed I wouldn't mind. I'm really liking the look of this board,mmm...dual core+this board= :drool: I hope

jjcom

EnJoY
03-19-2005, 11:47 AM
Don't missunderstand me now, but has anything important been said in this thread? I mean, would it be worth reading the thread, or is it just full of "whoas" and rumors? When is the release date? You should put some sort of FAQ in the beginning.


The first few pages have some good info, maybe read up to page 5?

Jort
03-19-2005, 01:30 PM
the 4 first pages are just people that are drooling on the board:D
including me and 10000 other.
wake me up its a dream :stick:

zoom314
03-19-2005, 01:58 PM
From what I've read the final version will not have 2 buttons on It, It will have in fact 3 buttons, They will be: Power, Cmos Reset and Reset. I found this little tidbit out at the following link below:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Cebit2005/Day5/2

Jort
03-19-2005, 02:27 PM
i read that article but must "over" read that
button to reset cmos is nice too :)

Nanobot
03-19-2005, 02:32 PM
I helped with voltage regulation and ram overclocking, the mosfets being grouped and water cooled was just one of the things that made it to this board.


Thank you Tony!
Now I won't have to cut and lap a bunch of small hs for all the mosfets anymore.
:toast:

zoom314
03-19-2005, 02:55 PM
Thank you Tony!
Now I won't have to cut and lap a bunch of small hs for all the mosfets anymore.
:toast:

It's about time they are "gruped" like this. ;) :banana: :banana:

Psyche911
03-19-2005, 03:28 PM
It is a good idea. Just as long as you don't try to run them naked like most motherboards come. All that heat in such a small area would make bad things happen...

What would be great, for those that don't want to add another block to their loop, is if someone made a small heatpipe cooler. One that was tall enough to be right in front of the rear exhaust fans. That would probably keep them plenty cool, and be completely passive...

zoom314
03-19-2005, 03:35 PM
It is a good idea. Just as long as you don't try to run them naked like most motherboards come. All that heat in such a small area would make bad things happen...

What would be great, for those that don't want to add another block to their loop, is if someone made a small heatpipe cooler. One that was tall enough to be right in front of the rear exhaust fans. That would probably keep them plenty cool, and be completely passive...

Yeah I wouldn't run them bare either. And yeah that would be good, But It would have to be able to clear both the XP-120 and the 7700 heatsinks so that all will work together.

Nanobot
03-19-2005, 03:48 PM
The board will come in various forms including one with a heatsink and fan on NB and mosfets I beleive.


http://img.hexus.net/v2/internationalevents/cebit_hannover_2005/store/grouper1.jpg

saaya
03-19-2005, 03:57 PM
this is the best looking mobo ive ever seen!

Awesome work ATI!

i'll second that! :toast:


=']Are we really going to be benefiting from watercooled mosfets?
we dont have to watercool them, the cool thing is that it has the standard isze for the nb heatsink so you can put and standard size heatsink on there as well :)


Also, considering that ATI is already demoing their SLI solution under NDA at CeBit, I'm surprised this doesn't have 2 16x PCIe slots. there will be full 16x for each card soon :D
the second 16x will be via sb wich isnt ready yet afaik.

Oh well, I'm not upgrading till the rivision E chips start coming out, so hopefully something will come out that's PCIe only.
rec e chips come out in 3 weeks :D

zoom314
03-19-2005, 04:07 PM
i'll second that! :toast:

And here's to Sapphire! :up: :up: Nforce4 can :stick: It, As there is a challenger to their chipset and from what I've read ATi has 5% or so market share in the motherboard chipset market. :p: :banana: :usa:

kraggy
03-19-2005, 04:19 PM
Yes, indeed, ATI has really come around within the last 2-3 years. I can remeber when they were TEH-SUCK! But not anymore, NV is THE-SUCK comparitively.

perkam
03-19-2005, 04:46 PM
NV is THE-SUCK comparitively.

uh oh...hopefully ppl wont pay too much attention to that statement :sofa:

nforce4 has a challenger now but no clue on whether ATi wil be able to keep their prices competitive while giving the same or better features on their boards.

Perkam

situman
03-19-2005, 05:17 PM
no word on when it will even come out yet. I have a feeln it will be NF5 vs ATI

saaya
03-19-2005, 05:42 PM
apparently AMR is now going by the name MVP, and even this isn't the final name. Stands for Multiple or Multi-VPU.

i thougt mvp is multiple vpu/card and amr is dual cards?

zoom314
03-19-2005, 07:04 PM
no word on when it will even come out yet. I have a feeln it will be NF5 vs ATI

There is no NF5. Just NF4a(AMD) or NF4i(Intel) and the NF4i does Doom3 at 46fps to 55fps, ATi for Me should do fine. From what I've read the thing holding back the P4 with the Nforce4 chipset for the P4 is the P4 cpu as It doen't have a built in Memory controller as the Intel version of the NF4 has the Memory Controller and even an updated A03 chipset can't fix that, See the Hexus Review link below..

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMDY1
http://www.nforcershq.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2625

SLaY3r07
03-19-2005, 07:22 PM
Yay, this is finally a sticky :banana4:

mcnbns
03-19-2005, 07:22 PM
From what I've read the thing holding back the P4 with the Nforce4 chipset for the P4 is the P4 cpu
Pfft. I think the Pentium 4 CPU is holding back the computing industry. The CPU design is like 4 years old! All they've done is add stupid instruction sets, shrink the die size, lengthen the pipeline and add a bit of cache. "Look! It's a new revolutionary CPU using never-before-seen technology! We at Intel believe we are teh w00t and AMD is teh suck. Dells are for cool people!"

I just realized that was very off topic, and I apologize.

dippyskoodlez
03-19-2005, 07:56 PM
Pfft. I think the Pentium 4 CPU is holding back the computing industry. The CPU design is like 4 years old! All they've done is add stupid instruction sets, shrink the die size, lengthen the pipeline and add a bit of cache. "Look! It's a new revolutionary CPU using never-before-seen technology! We at Intel believe we are teh w00t and AMD is teh suck. Dells are for cool people!"

I just realized that was very off topic, and I apologize.

Thats why we have the A64, and all these wonderful overclocking mobos.
:D

For those of us that realize a p4 is at its end, and want something actually useful.. :p:

Ad Rock
03-19-2005, 08:07 PM
Just noticed that the target price is about $150. If that is true I think Saphire is going to kick some serious ass with this new mobo. I also really liked how apparently OCZ had a lot of input when designing the memory configuration so we should see some nice and stable memory interaction.

I look at this board every day and still drool every day.

VulgarHandle
03-19-2005, 08:23 PM
the madness

zoom314
03-19-2005, 08:30 PM
Just noticed that the target price is about $150. If that is true I think Saphire is going to kick some serious ass with this new mobo. I also really liked how apparently OCZ had a lot of input when designing the memory configuration so we should see some nice and stable memory interaction.

I look at this board every day and still drool every day.

Yeah and OCZs VX ram is supposed to like voltages as high as 3.7vdc and the timings at DDR500 are supposed to be in the 2-2-2 range.

Psyche911
03-19-2005, 08:32 PM
$150?
Where'd you find that? If that's true, and it stays close to what the pictures show, I'll preorder the damn thing. I wont be able to wait for reviews to come in. :D

My BH-5 says "Please ATi, don't change a thing!"
Listen to the poor voltage deprived BH-5, don't turn your back on it. :(

kraggy
03-19-2005, 08:35 PM
$150?
Where'd you find that? If that's true, and it stays close to what the pictures show, I'll preorder the damn thing. I wont be able to wait for reviews to come in. :D

My BH-5 says "Please ATi, don't change a thing!"
Listen to the poor voltage deprived BH-5, don't turn your back on it. :(

BH-5? Why use BH-5 when you can have OCZ VX 4000??? :stick:

jjcom
03-19-2005, 09:00 PM
OCZ VX4000 uses Winbond UTT, or CH-5. BH-5 is better than CH-5. So at the same clocks, BH-5 will win :D

jjcom

zoom314
03-19-2005, 09:14 PM
OCZ VX4000 uses Winbond UTT, or CH-5. BH-5 is better than CH-5. So at the same clocks, BH-5 will win :D

jjcom

I highly doubt bh-5 will win and anandtech backs Me up.

OCZ ram is newer and BH-5 is not made anymore,
Here's OCZ EL PC4000 VX Gold Memory + DFI nForce4 = DDR533 at 2-2-2-6 (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2369)
Besides some of those near the top in overclocking are using It.

According to the Anandtech article, This stuff wipes the floor with BH-5.


What replaces "wow" when you realize that OCZ VX running at DDR533 outperforms the previous best running at DDR610?

qdemn7
03-19-2005, 09:33 PM
Just noticed that the target price is about $150. If that is true I think Saphire is going to kick some serious ass with this new mobo. I also really liked how apparently OCZ had a lot of input when designing the memory configuration so we should see some nice and stable memory interaction.

I look at this board every day and still drool every day.Is $150 USD or $150 CDN? And where did you see / read / hear that?

zoom314
03-19-2005, 09:40 PM
Just noticed that the target price is about $150. If that is true I think Saphire is going to kick some serious ass with this new mobo. I also really liked how apparently OCZ had a lot of input when designing the memory configuration so we should see some nice and stable memory interaction.

I look at this board every day and still drool every day.

And with OCZ PC4000VX Gold It's gonna feed some serious Ass to the NF4 crowd I'll bet, Most of which would need an OCZ DDR Booster, That's If It will work with their motherboard at all that is..... :banana: :banana: :stick: I wonder would they like that with or without salt? ;)

Psyche911
03-19-2005, 10:10 PM
BH-5? Why use BH-5 when you can have OCZ VX 4000??? :stick:

Because I bought it 18 months ago and it was the best thing at the time? :p

Still great RAM. VX PC-4000 has more bandwidth, which can help it win in some instances (like Quake 3 at 700fps...lol). But a lot of the time, the extra bandwidth doesn't necessarily help any more than a higher clock...which you can get with BH-5.

VX wont go above 255-260, right? With BH-5, some people can get a bit higher still at 2-2-2-5.

Granted, I am not one of those people yet as I've only got 2.85vdimm. :(

Ad Rock
03-19-2005, 10:33 PM
Is $150 USD or $150 CDN? And where did you see / read / hear that?

It is in this article that was on the page before here. (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Cebit2005/Day5/2) .

Even at a price of $150 usd (with what our exchange rate is at) that price is still about the same as a DFI Lanparty.

krille
03-20-2005, 12:40 AM
I'm Sorry I might appear ignorant, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Considering the active cooling of the mosfets, will you be able to use 4v vDimm (through the 5v rail i suppose?) stable 24/7 without any mods? (Which is *NOT* recommended on the DFI.)

2) What exactly makes this board *better than* the DFI? To me it rather looks like its ATI/Sapphire twin?

Might sound a bit sceptical, but I've never had no AMD board in my comp before, and now this - seems a bit too good imho. But then, Array Technology Inc. did surprise us with its R300 as well.

2fink
03-20-2005, 01:33 AM
I'm Sorry I might appear ignorant, but I have a couple of questions:

1) Considering the active cooling of the mosfets, will you be able to use 4v vDimm (through the 5v rail i suppose?) stable 24/7 without any mods? (Which is *NOT* recommended on the DFI.)

2) What exactly makes this board *better than* the DFI? To me it rather looks like its ATI/Sapphire twin?

Might sound a bit sceptical, but I've never had no AMD board in my comp before, and now this - seems a bit too good imho. But then, Array Technology Inc. did surprise us with its R300 as well.

i think most people like the design and the known facts about the board are really good (vdimm up to 4V and vcore up to 2V). nobody really knows how it runs and if its better than the dfi. but i think everybody hopes so ;)

dimasdw
03-20-2005, 02:32 AM
2) What exactly makes this board *better than* the DFI? To me it rather looks like its ATI/Sapphire twin?

.

we can put Water Block on the mosfet... :banana:
until now iam confuse how to put water block on my DFI NF4 :confused:

REDKEN
03-20-2005, 06:24 AM
I think the chip will do good and the sapphire board also.

Ati knows that it has to compete with an already well established chip, the nforce (which is a very good and mature chip).

They need to come out with a "bang" in order to establish themselves on the market. If they don't get it right the first time, their first "real" venture into this market will be a rocky one. Most people don't know them for their other chips, so I think that for the general public, this will be their "first" chipset. The tip of the lance.

That is why i believe they have put their ears on the ground and have probably done quite a bit of testing to get this board out with as few possible bugs (there will always be some) as possible.

I think that at the very least it will probably perform as well as the Nforce, but I hope that it will be better. Not so much because we need a "great" O/C'er, but because AMD REALLY needs a "rock solid" chipset on their side like Intel has right now. That is the mayor thing holding AMD back now.

Those are my 2 cents.

P.S.: I was just going to put a simple "Registering on thread" :), but I this thread reminds me of why I like the computer field so much... :toast: ...and also the joy of upgrading in may :p:

SLaY3r07
03-20-2005, 06:31 AM
I am still debating weither I should keep my TCCD OCZ EL Platinum Rev2 for this board or sell those and get OCZ VX PC4000 :censored:

situman
03-20-2005, 06:47 AM
Im deciding whether i should use my "new" OCZ PC3500 BH-5 or PC4200 EL PLat. TCCD :)

qdemn7
03-20-2005, 09:12 AM
It is in this article that was on the page before here. (http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Cebit2005/Day5/2) .

Even at a price of $150 usd (with what our exchange rate is at) that price is still about the same as a DFI Lanparty.Thanks for that info.

philter
03-20-2005, 01:19 PM
LOL- I missed the 450 SB part and was thinkin it uses the old 400!
My complaints 'bout this board were no HD Audio and SATA 2 and USB issues, seems they have been adressed so this board has moved up my list some!!!
I really do hope it lives up to everyones expectations, dunno why but NF4 just dosnt 'do it' for me, this board looks like it could be the one.
Time will tell......

zoom314
03-20-2005, 02:32 PM
Because I bought it 18 months ago and it was the best thing at the time? :p

Still great RAM. VX PC-4000 has more bandwidth, which can help it win in some instances (like Quake 3 at 700fps...lol). But a lot of the time, the extra bandwidth doesn't necessarily help any more than a higher clock...which you can get with BH-5.

VX wont go above 255-260, right? With BH-5, some people can get a bit higher still at 2-2-2-5.

Granted, I am not one of those people yet as I've only got 2.85vdimm. :(

533 /2 = 266.5MHz, At least with OCZ PC4000VX ram, BH-5 is obsolete as far as I'm concerned. :banana: :banana:

Wrong, In the Review I listed above in another link It went as High as 269MHz for this 1Gb pair of 512Mb sticks. :stick:

S0nic
03-20-2005, 03:27 PM
1) Considering the active cooling of the mosfets, will you be able to use 4v vDimm (through the 5v rail i suppose?) stable 24/7 without any mods? (Which is *NOT* recommended on the DFI.)

What?? u mean I can't use my PC4000 VX on my DFI NF4 board 24/7?

btw is there any ETA on this sapphire board yet?

jjcom
03-20-2005, 03:47 PM
yeah you can, The board can get power for the RAM from either the 3.3v rail or the 5v rail. So you can just power it from the 3.3v rail for 24/7 setup

jjcom

S0nic
03-20-2005, 03:51 PM
yeah you can, The board can get power for the RAM from either the 3.3v rail or the 5v rail. So you can just power it from the 3.3v rail for 24/7 setup

jjcom

So do I need to move the jumper back from the 5V position?

VulgarHandle
03-20-2005, 05:38 PM
my bh5 runs 250 7-2-2-2.0 w/ 3.3v on an nforce2 board :cool:

man, hope these ati boards produce results, it'll set a new benchmark for all motherboards

jjcom
03-20-2005, 05:41 PM
So do I need to move the jumper back from the 5V position?

yep,

jjcom

boostdfd3s
03-20-2005, 05:42 PM
Yeah whats this about the 5V not being 24/7 stable? Isnt that one of the premier features of the DFI board? Does the heatsink just have to be actively cooled? Hate to threadjack, but a quick answer would be great!

jjcom
03-20-2005, 05:46 PM
Yeah whats this about the 5V not being 24/7 stable? Isnt that one of the premier features of the DFI board? Does the heatsink just have to be actively cooled? Hate to threadjack, but a quick answer would be great!
You guys should start up a new thread...

When running off the 5v rail, the mosfets get *very* hot. So you have to have them sinked and with active cooling when running off the 5v rail. Plus its just more stress on them. Basicly, its better on the mb to run from the 3.3v rail for a 24/7 rig

jjcom

boostdfd3s
03-20-2005, 05:51 PM
You guys should start up a new thread...

When running off the 5v rail, the mosfets get *very* hot. So you have to have them sinked and with active cooling when running off the 5v rail. Plus its just more stress on them. Basicly, its better on the mb to run from the 3.3v rail for a 24/7 rig

jjcom


Thread was made 2sec before you posted :)

Revv23
03-20-2005, 07:03 PM
not recommended and not possible are very differerent things.

Revv23
03-20-2005, 08:51 PM
I highly doubt bh-5 will win and anandtech backs Me up.

OCZ ram is newer and BH-5 is not made anymore,
Here's OCZ EL PC4000 VX Gold Memory + DFI nForce4 = DDR533 at 2-2-2-6 (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2369)
Besides some of those near the top in overclocking are using It.

According to the Anandtech article, This stuff wipes the floor with BH-5.


they dont actually compare it to BH-5, i really dont know how they could possible have come to the conclusion that VX is faster then BH... and seeing as utt is CH based, and BH-5 is faster thn CH, i consider VX to be just as fast un interleaved...

but, since most of our BH is 256 and the VX is 512 sticks the interleaving does a good job...now lets see where thosee good clocking BH-5 512 sticks are and have a head to head, shall we?

zoom314
03-20-2005, 11:08 PM
they dont actually compare it to BH-5, i really dont know how they could possible have come to the conclusion that VX is faster then BH... and seeing as utt is CH based, and BH-5 is faster thn CH, i consider VX to be just as fast un interleaved...

but, since most of our BH is 256 and the VX is 512 sticks the interleaving does a good job...now lets see where thosee good clocking BH-5 512 sticks are and have a head to head, shall we?
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2369&p=4

krille
03-20-2005, 11:39 PM
ROFL!!

interesting way of putting a reply :D

Revv23
03-21-2005, 11:26 AM
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/ocz%20vx_03020540325/6511.png

show me which of those is BH-5... i know your not comparing the results from tests on the intel bed to the tests on the A64 bed, because we all know that the A64 has much better memory performance.


and that article isnt a good comparison anyways as the VX was tested on the NF4 DFI and everything else was done on an NF3 MSI...

zoom314
03-21-2005, 12:15 PM
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/ocz%20vx_03020540325/6511.png

show me which of those is BH-5... i know your not comparing the results from tests on the intel bed to the tests on the A64 bed, because we all know that the A64 has much better memory performance.


and that article isnt a good comparison anyways as the VX was tested on the NF4 DFI and everything else was done on an NF3 MSI...



OCZ is usually very open about chip sources, but in this case, they would only comment that the memory chips were made to their specifications and went through extensive binning at OCZ. Forums are claiming that the blank is a new Winbond memory chip.

Performance of the OCZ EL PC4000 VX Gold was compared to all of the memory recently tested on the AMD Athlon 64 platform. While we did not test on an Intel platform, the performance results can also be generally compared to previous benchmark results on the Intel 875 memory test bed. More results are available in recent DDR memory reviews at: <br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2312" target="_blank">Corsair 4400C25: Taking Samsung TCCD to New Heights</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2235" target="_blank">PQI &amp; G. Skill: New Choices in 2-2-2 Memory</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2226" target="_blank">Athlon 64 Memory: Rewriting the Rules</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2215" target="_blank">OCZ 3700 Gold Rev. 3: DDR500 Value for Athlon 64 &amp; Intel 478</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2174" target="_blank">Geil PC3200 Ultra X: High Speed &amp; Record Bandwidth</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2145" target="_blank">= F-A-S-T= DDR Memory: 2-2-2 Roars on the Scene</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2130" target="_blank">Buffalo FireStix: Red Hot Name for a New High-End Memory</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2098" target="_blank">New DDR Highs: Shikatronics, OCZ, and the Fastest Memory Yet</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=2082" target="_blank">The Return of 2-2-2: Corsair 3200XL &amp; Samsung PC4000</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=2057" target="_blank">OCZ 3700EB: Making Hay with Athlon 64</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=2019" target="_blank">OCZ 3500EB: The Importance of Balanced Memory Timings</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=2015" target="_blank">Mushkin PC3200 2-2-2 Special: Last of a Legend</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=2007" target="_blank">PMI DDR533: A New Name in High-Performance Memory</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1998" target="_blank">Samsung PC3700: DDR466 Memory for the Masses</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1990" target="_blank">Kingmax Hardcore Memory: Tiny BGA Reaches For Top Speed</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1972" target="_blank">New Memory Highs: Corsair and OCZ Introduce DDR550</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1940" target="_blank">OCZ PC3700 Gold Rev. 2: The Universal Soldier</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1902" target="_blank">OCZ 4200EL: Tops in Memory Performance</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1887" target="_blank">Mushkin PC4000 High Performance: DDR500 PLUS</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1867" target="_blank">Corsair TwinX1024-4000 PRO: Improving DDR500 Performance</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1853" target="_blank">Mushkin &amp; Adata: 2 for the Fast-Timings Lane</a><br>
<a href="http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.html?i=1849" target="_blank">Searching for the Memory Holy Grail &ndash; Part 2</a><br>
<br>


So are any of the above BH-5?



<img width="500" height="337" src="http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/ocz%20vx_03020540325/6533.png" align="left" hspace="2" vspace="0">Some of you may recall in the last days of BH5 memory last year that BH5 actually performed faster than the new Samsung TCCD at the exact same memory timings. This is a pattern that we have seen before, but OCZ 4000 VX Gold blows the hinges off the door of this concept. What can you say about a memory that outperforms the fastest memory that you have previously tested, except "wow"? What replaces "wow" when you realize that OCZ VX running at DDR533 outperforms the previous best running at DDR610? There are no superlatives that really do justice to this kind of performance. We are absolutely blown away with the performance of the OCZ DDR500 VX.

Across the board from DDR400 to DDR538, VX manages to perform with stability in all our benchmarks at 2-2-2-6 timings. In addition, it is faster at the same timings than any memory that we have tested so far. This is why DDR533 outperforms the top TCCD memory - even those specially binned for highest-speed performance. We would also add that we did try slower timings to see where we could go, but this memory is very interesting in its performance curves. It can do, at 2-2-2 at high voltage, essentially the same as the highest OC at lower timings at any voltage. This is another way of saying that there is absolutely no reason to run VX at any timings other than 2-2-2 - unless you simply don't have the voltage to reach 2-2-2 performance.

In the end, OCZ VX Gold is the best performing memory that we have tested on the Athlon 64 platform. At the same speed and same timings, it significantly outperforms any other memory that we have tested on A64. VX does not run at the fastest memory speeds that we have found in our benchmarks - quite a few memories based on Samsung TCCD or Hynix memory chips reach significantly higher speeds than the DDR538 of OCZ VX Gold. However, at DDR534 2-2-2-6 timings, no memory that we have tested outperforms VX. VX is so fast that 533 actually outperforms memory that have achieved DDR600 or more in our memory tests.


According to anandtech It is the Fastest Memory for the A64. And that does include BH-5 according to them as this VX isn't the VX that OCZ had with the PC3200VX Dimms, This is a later Custom Batch and It is the cream of the crop of that custom batch of their newest VX chips. They only used the DFI NF4 motherboard as It was the only one then that could without any mods go to 4.0vdc, Now It has company and It's a Sapphire Gruper..... So I wonder how long It will be before the fish(Navy parlance for Torpedoes) are in the water and running hot and true?

zoom314
03-21-2005, 12:27 PM
Here's another review of PC4000VX ram and again they use a DFI NF4.

http://www.insanetek.com/index.php?page=oczgoldpc4000vx_1

zoom314
03-21-2005, 12:46 PM
Oh and I did find a review of some BH-5 ram, Of course It's OCZ PC3500 Platinum and heres the review below:

http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=1914

And yeah It's on an Intel system, But Super Pi there is slower than on VX ram on the A64.

REDKEN
03-21-2005, 01:16 PM
Interesting RAM. I'm keeping an eye on it

Nanobot
03-21-2005, 02:48 PM
This thread is getting :off: !

zoom314
03-21-2005, 03:16 PM
This thread is getting :off: !
Sorry, Ram debate for this chipset is all. :D

krille
03-22-2005, 02:36 AM
Now, does anyone know, will the gruper have active mosfet cooling stock? And will it (thusly) be able to push 4v 24/7 without extreme heat and stability issues?

Also,

This thread is getting :off: !
was even more :off: hehe...

Caper
03-22-2005, 02:46 AM
Back to topic.
Mailed Sapphire Germany when/if this board hits the retail channels and got this answer:

We showed it as a demo system, but if it will be available for the end-user market it should come in about 2 or 3 month. Decision is not finally made.

So stay aware to our and ATI’s press releases…

Best regards
Your Sapphire Team Germany

krille
03-22-2005, 04:21 AM
oh... talk about raining on the party... well, let's just hope for the best then. dang, them boards look(ed) promising

saaya
03-22-2005, 05:31 AM
There is no NF5. Just NF4a(AMD) or NF4i(Intel) and the NF4i does Doom3 at 46fps to 55fps, ATi for Me should do fine. From what I've read the thing holding back the P4 with the Nforce4 chipset for the P4 is the P4 cpu as It doen't have a built in Memory controller as the Intel version of the NF4 has the Memory Controller and even an updated A03 chipset can't fix that, See the Hexus Review link below..

http://www.hexus.net/content/reviews/review.php?dXJsX3Jldmlld19JRD0xMDY1
http://www.nforcershq.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2625

why do you post a link to a story on a website a and then a link from a website b who quotes website a and links to it? :Stick: :D


I highly doubt bh-5 will win and anandtech backs Me up.

OCZ ram is newer and BH-5 is not made anymore,
Here's OCZ EL PC4000 VX Gold Memory + DFI nForce4 = DDR533 at 2-2-2-6 (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2369)
Besides some of those near the top in overclocking are using It.

According to the Anandtech article, This stuff wipes the floor with BH-5.
bh5 performs the same or beats ch5 ,theres no way its faster than bh5.
bh5 production has started again some weeks ago and the new bh5 will be available soon.

zoom314, anandtech didnt compare the vx to bh5...
and please stop using iframe! :P

Revv23
03-22-2005, 06:49 AM
So are any of the above BH-5?



According to anandtech It is the Fastest Memory for the A64. And that does include BH-5 according to them as this VX isn't the VX that OCZ had with the PC3200VX Dimms, This is a later Custom Batch and It is the cream of the crop of that custom batch of their newest VX chips. They only used the DFI NF4 motherboard as It was the only one then that could without any mods go to 4.0vdc, Now It has company and It's a Sapphire Gruper..... So I wonder how long It will be before the fish(Navy parlance for Torpedoes) are in the water and running hot and true?


sorry for going OT one last time, but not once did they compare BH-5 to VX on the same platform, A64 always makes more memory bandwidth, you cant compare intel+BH-5 to A64 + VX and make claims that one is faster then the other, you just can't. Whatever anandtech says is just unbacked specualtion, and frankly im dissapointed in the website for it.

LowRun
03-22-2005, 07:15 AM
Back to topic.
Mailed Sapphire Germany when/if this board hits the retail channels and got this answer:

We showed it as a demo system, but if it will be available for the end-user market it should come in about 2 or 3 month. Decision is not finally made.

So stay aware to our and ATI’s press releases…

Best regards
Your Sapphire Team Germany

The board was not even working so i just can't see how one could call it a demo system, more of a concept if you ask. All this teasing just to learn that it may not make it to market :rolleyes:
Anyway, 2 or 3 months is too much for me so it'll prolly be DFI.

Grayskull
03-22-2005, 07:36 AM
The boards were working. They were not concepts. They were disassembled for some reason at the show.


The board was not even working so i just can't see how one could call it a demo system, more of a concept if you ask. All this teasing just to learn that it may not make it to market :rolleyes:
Anyway, 2 or 3 months is too much for me so it'll prolly be DFI.

eva2000
03-22-2005, 07:47 AM
I highly doubt bh-5 will win and anandtech backs Me up.

OCZ ram is newer and BH-5 is not made anymore,
Here's OCZ EL PC4000 VX Gold Memory + DFI nForce4 = DDR533 at 2-2-2-6 (http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2369)
Besides some of those near the top in overclocking are using It.

According to the Anandtech article, This stuff wipes the floor with BH-5.


BH-5 still faster sometimes but here's 10x 266mhz 2-2-2-6 BH-5 http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?p=768694#post768694 to compare

Anandtech 10x267mhz 2-2-2-6 DFI NF4 vs BH-5@ 10x266mhz 2-2-2-6 DFI NF4 SLI-D
Sandra unbuffered = 3470/3629 vs 3581/3775
Sandra buffered = 7554/7461 vs 7557/7475
SuperPi 2M = 71s vs 72s

http://www.fileshosts.com/DFI/NF4_SLI_D/results/3500_CAA2C_0505_APMW/OCZ/PC3500PlatLE/LDT3x/10x/266-266-2226-8-15-2212-1T-1.6-3.6-1.7-1.4_DS7_DDS4_iSkew255/superpi-2m_tn.jpg

note Anandtech cpu = FX-53 1MB cache vs my 3500+ Newcastle 512k cache hence difference in superpi time and fact 10mhz difference 2670mhz vs 2660mhz

sorry Grayskull for going off topic... heh

LowRun
03-22-2005, 07:54 AM
The boards were working. They were not concepts. They were disassembled for some reason at the show.

Ahh, ok, it's worth mentionning, thanks for the clarification Grayskull.

situman
03-22-2005, 08:37 AM
If its already working, why would it still take 2 to 3 months to come out? By then news about "NF5" will probably be leaked.

LowRun
03-22-2005, 10:45 AM
If its already working, why would it still take 2 to 3 months to come out? By then news about "NF5" will probably be leaked.

Well, given that the decision to make it to market has not been taken yet, 2 to 3 months seems correct. Hope they'll take the right decision, maybe time for a "Will you buy the Gruper if it performs" poll thread.

mcnbns
03-22-2005, 10:48 AM
I actually don't mind if it takes a couple months for this board to come out, if they make sure it is released with a good BIOS and no bugs to speak of. The problem I have with delays is when they don't seem to fix anything while we wait.

jjcom
03-22-2005, 04:18 PM
I actually don't mind if it takes a couple months for this board to come out, if they make sure it is released with a good BIOS and no bugs to speak of. The problem I have with delays is when they don't seem to fix anything while we wait.

yep, I'm with you. As long as the has few bugs and is stable with all these options I can wait.

jjcom

zoom314
03-22-2005, 04:26 PM
yep, I'm with you. As long as the has few bugs and is stable with all these options I can wait.

jjcom

Me too, BTW: Nice Cat avatar. Is the cat still alive or?

My nephew had His Black cat Sargent die recently at age 17(It was a 17 year old cat). :(

saaya
03-22-2005, 04:34 PM
i just heard that the waterblocks from DD will cost around 40$, just like their current blocks

lets hope DD or some shops will offer the board with one or two blocks bundled so the price gets lower. maybe 199$ for the board with 2 blocks? :D that would surely be nice

jjcom
03-22-2005, 04:49 PM
Me too, BTW: Nice Cat avatar. Is the cat still alive or?

My nephew had His Black cat Sargent die recently at age 17(It was a 17 year old cat). :(

Cat's still alive and his older brother is as well :D He's...9 years or so old. He's a blue gray...or whatever...same type of cat as Kazoo's, but mine's a guy.

jjcom

slayer899
03-22-2005, 06:38 PM
i just heard that the waterblocks from DD will cost around 40$, just like their current blocks

lets hope DD or some shops will offer the board with one or two blocks bundled so the price gets lower. maybe 199$ for the board with 2 blocks? :D that would surely be nice

oh man if it ever did cost $199 for the board AND two blocks i think....well i dunno what i'd do, but i'd be happy :D

zoom314
03-22-2005, 08:00 PM
oh man if it ever did cost $199 for the board AND two blocks i think....well i dunno what i'd do, but i'd be happy :D

Ditto, Ditto. :toast:

Ad Rock
03-22-2005, 08:50 PM
i just heard that the waterblocks from DD will cost around 40$, just like their current blocks

lets hope DD or some shops will offer the board with one or two blocks bundled so the price gets lower. maybe 199$ for the board with 2 blocks? :D that would surely be nice

It would be amazing, but I really doubt it will be that cheap. Maybe the board plus 2 blocks for $269. But we really are just speculating, I just want some more info on this board.

matt9669
03-22-2005, 09:09 PM
There were working Bullhead boards at the ATI event, the available settings looked very impressive. Beyond that I'd better not say. I have no doubt the Sapphire board will be a force to be reckoned with.

situman
03-23-2005, 05:05 AM
Sapphire cannot be a force to be reckoned with when its not even producing anything forceful yet, lol. The board needs to come out soon.

Revv23
03-23-2005, 06:22 AM
it appears this board is not coming out soon enough for me... :(

maybe ill go DFI 754 and put off my big upgrade for a few months ? :p:

jjcom
03-23-2005, 11:12 AM
yeah, get a DTR chip, a DFI 754 board. Would be a nice setup, then you can always just use the same RAM, and drives and sell the vid card :D

jjcom

zoom314
03-23-2005, 11:56 AM
yeah, get a DTR chip, a DFI 754 board. Would be a nice setup, then you can always just use the same RAM, and drives and sell the vid card :D

jjcom

Me I'll wait as I have no choice right now. Drool mode on.... :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:

jjcom
03-23-2005, 12:12 PM
:slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:

you know, thats a great mode to be in when looking at that motherboard :D

jjcom

saaya
03-23-2005, 12:42 PM
It would be amazing, but I really doubt it will be that cheap. Maybe the board plus 2 blocks for $269. But we really are just speculating, I just want some more info on this board.

why 269? didnt somebody say the board will cost around 150$? this sounds about right, with 2 blocks 40$ each that would be 230$, and since its bundled we can expect it to be cheaper, so 220 maybe... your right, 199$ with two blocks was a little too optimistic :D
DD still wants to make some money :D hehe

fareastgq
03-23-2005, 04:12 PM
This will be just in time for summer so I can hack apart my water rig, I hate anticipation... heh. Anyone know who else is going to make this board besides sapphire? Is ATI going to be making it's own board like it does cards too?

zoom314
03-23-2005, 04:19 PM
This will be just in time for summer so I can hack apart my water rig, I hate anticipation... heh. Anyone know who else is going to make this board besides sapphire? Is ATI going to be making it's own board like it does cards too?

ATi(Grayskull) has already said that They are only making Motherboard Chipsets, No motherboards.

mcnbns
03-23-2005, 05:33 PM
I NEED RELEASE DATES!!
/me runs around screaming

Sorry about that. I'm really looking forward to this board but I'm not sure I can wait long enough. My current setup is limping along on a RAM-crippled 9600 Pro "Advantage".

Go Sapphire! Go Sapphire! It's your birthday! :eleph: :banana:

SLaY3r07
03-23-2005, 05:34 PM
I NEED RELEASE DATES!!

Werd. I have been waiting ever since this thread was made. But I will definitely paciently wait for this kick :banana: :banana: :banana: board to come out.

Revv23
03-23-2005, 07:33 PM
yeah, get a DTR chip, a DFI 754 board. Would be a nice setup, then you can always just use the same RAM, and drives and sell the vid card :D

jjcom


hehe, i have a single 512 stick of Bh-6 that does 260 on 3.3v all day on NF2 ready for this baby.

im still on 9800pro so ill ride that out until its time to go ati+939, and hopefully ill be looking at r520 by then... just wonder if turion is worht the wait...

Sorry for OT once agian :(

Ad Rock
03-23-2005, 10:43 PM
why 269? didnt somebody say the board will cost around 150$? this sounds about right, with 2 blocks 40$ each that would be 230$, and since its bundled we can expect it to be cheaper, so 220 maybe... your right, 199$ with two blocks was a little too optimistic :D
DD still wants to make some money :D hehe

Yep I guess you were a lot closer than me for pricing. I forgot that the msrp was $150, $199 actually seems possible now.

I just want this board released now.

jjcom
03-23-2005, 11:02 PM
yeah, I know what you mean, but if they release it now, I wouldn't be too surprised if we found serveral bugs right off the bat. I'm hoping that they'll have the time to tweak the board so it runs real nice. BH-5 :banana:

jjcom

krille
03-24-2005, 12:12 AM
i wanna see some prometeia on those mosfets

yaaaarr!

Ad Rock
03-24-2005, 03:42 AM
i wanna see some prometeia on those mosfets

yaaaarr!

Well this is the right forum if we are ever to see something like that happen :D.

derubermensch1
03-24-2005, 12:08 PM
Subscribing to thread, just read every page, dying : )

SLaY3r07
03-24-2005, 12:09 PM
Subscribing to thread, just read every page, dying : )

I did too, the first time I read this :toast:

zoom314
03-24-2005, 12:18 PM
Subscribing to thread, just read every page, dying :)

Heck, If You're dying, I've been dead and will be a restless spirit until It comes out and I can buy It and the 2.8GHz FX-57 cpu. Then I can rest in peace. :rehab: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :slobber: :rehab:

derubermensch1
03-24-2005, 12:20 PM
Hmm, trying to think of a way to explain to my work what I was doing for the last 17 pages ; ) Hehe...

Circaflex
03-26-2005, 07:18 PM
cant wait for its release, didnt feel like reading through 17 pages anyone know when its supposed to come out for retail?

zoom314
03-26-2005, 07:32 PM
cant wait for its release, didnt feel like reading through 17 pages anyone know when its supposed to come out for retail?

Umm, Let's see, How about on April 31st. ;)

chefnr1
03-27-2005, 12:52 AM
in sweden it's available 2005-05-01, i have already preorder it

LowRun
03-27-2005, 04:58 AM
Back to topic.
Mailed Sapphire Germany when/if this board hits the retail channels and got this answer:

We showed it as a demo system, but if it will be available for the end-user market it should come in about 2 or 3 month. Decision is not finally made.

So stay aware to our and ATI’s press releases…

Best regards
Your Sapphire Team Germany

Didn't see any new Sapphire or ATI's press release so how come people now have availability dates?

chefnr1
03-27-2005, 06:41 AM
Didn't see any new Sapphire or ATI's press release so how come people now have availability dates?
in the webshop the date said 2005-05-01 (not confermed)

LowRun
03-27-2005, 07:33 AM
in the webshop the date said 2005-05-01 (not confermed)

But the board has no official name so how can it be referenced :confused:

DryFire
03-27-2005, 07:43 AM
But the board has no official name so how can it be referenced :confused:

If you say sapphire motherboard i think people in the buisness will know what you're talking about. It is the only one they have right?

LowRun
03-27-2005, 08:00 AM
If you say sapphire motherboard i think people in the buisness will know what you're talking about. It is the only one they have right?

How would we know?

zoom314
03-27-2005, 09:01 AM
If you say sapphire motherboard i think people in the buisness will know what you're talking about. It is the only one they have right?

Actually at Cebit They had shown 3 different motherboards, Two green Sapphire motherboards were shown on Ocworkbench in taiwan and the grouper was shown on Hexus and Techpowerup.com.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Cebit2005/Day5/2

As to when They will start selling them and when a place like Newegg will have It for sale is anyones guess, April Fools jokes not with standing of course. As there is no such date as April 31st, I could have said February 29th too and It would be just as fake, At least this Year It would be.

Caper
03-27-2005, 10:53 AM
I don´t think the Sapphire boards listed at Komplett in Sweden are THE one we are looking for.
It´s listed here:
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=307925&cks=PRL

zoom314
03-27-2005, 11:16 AM
I don´t think the Sapphire boards listed at Komplett in Sweden are THE one we are looking for.
It´s listed here:
http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.asp?sku=307925&cks=PRL

I think You may be right, It may turn out to be the other two boards and not the Grouper which I think is for the North American market only, If I'm wrong, so be It. :cool:

chefnr1
03-27-2005, 11:34 AM
I think You may be right, It may turn out to be the other two boards and not the Grouper which I think is for the North American market only, If I'm wrong, so be It. :cool:
i've mailed them for speqs so that i know what board it's turn out to bee, but it's easter holyday now so i cant get an answer until tuesday, and it's just wait and se what sort of board it is..

LowRun
03-27-2005, 12:22 PM
the Grouper which I think is for the North American market only

And then another funny statement.

jagt
03-27-2005, 02:50 PM
Yay, this board looks absolutely stunning. It also looks like it will hit the marked just before my yearly summer upgrade.
Must say this board + r520 + san diego will make a fine upgrade :banana:

zoom314
03-27-2005, 07:34 PM
And then another funny statement.

I said I think, Meaning I don't know one way or another. So how is that funny?

chefnr1
03-28-2005, 12:20 AM
Yay, this board looks absolutely stunning. It also looks like it will hit the marked just before my yearly summer upgrade.
Must say this board + r520 + san diego will make a fine upgrade :banana:
can you see the board on komplett in norway,and what do you say is it THE board or....

jagt
03-28-2005, 03:29 AM
Yeah, as you know, Komplett's main stock is in Norway, so they hold the exact same info as komplett.se.
Here: http://www.komplett.no/k/kl.asp?bn=10482 Scroll to the bottom. I really doubt this is "the" board. First of all they do not mention "Gruper", which is the board's name, secondly, it's way too cheap to be the Gruper. I mean, under 900NOK for the costiest one? Doesn't sound right.

Edit: Though, I'm sure I can fire off an email to komplett and ask what boards these are.

chefnr1
03-28-2005, 04:18 AM
Yeah, as you know, Komplett's main stock is in Norway, so they hold the exact same info as komplett.se.
Here: http://www.komplett.no/k/kl.asp?bn=10482 Scroll to the bottom. I really doubt this is "the" board. First of all they do not mention "Gruper", which is the board's name, secondly, it's way too cheap to be the Gruper. I mean, under 900NOK for the costiest one? Doesn't sound right.

Edit: Though, I'm sure I can fire off an email to komplett and ask what boards these are.
ok i've checked it and it's the same as in swe, and i have mailed them and ask what board it realy are, and i agree with you thats way too cheap to be the real gruper, well it's just to wait untill they answer,they can be a little slow here in swe to answer on mail though.. :( but you can test mailing them and see if you can get a faster answer :stick:
but where can we check how to get this special board???

situman
03-28-2005, 04:57 AM
It didn't come out yet.

jagt
03-28-2005, 04:57 AM
but you can test mailing them and see if you can get a faster answer :stick:
but where can we check how to get this special board???
As said as done. Komplett usally answers within a day or two.

LowRun
03-28-2005, 07:23 AM
I said I think, Meaning I don't know one way or another. So how is that funny?

Well, that's prolly because i'm not a native English speaker but that's the first time i see someone saying "i think" meaning "i don't know". Generaly when i think something is about to happend, that's because some elements point to that direction otherwise this is just random thinking and you could just as well have said they would be released in Vanuatu only.

Rolle2k
03-28-2005, 07:48 AM
chefnr1: sorry to say this, but it ain't the right motherboard.. i also pre-ordered it, and then mailed Sapphire and asked if it was the same.. this is the answer i got:


Hi Robert,

They are not the same board, the one you seen @ Xtreme Systems is design for over clocking and we don’t have a product number for this board yet!


Best regards,

Sapphire tech

So it will probably take a while before we will se this :( Anyway, i will keep my order so they won't send my other stuff i ordered. Will wait until they get this on the market.. will be nice with 4x512 Twinmos 3500 Speed-Premium and this board. Then i'll probably add an ATI-vid and a Venice core A64. ;)

chefnr1
03-28-2005, 09:13 AM
chefnr1: sorry to say this, but it ain't the right motherboard.. i also pre-ordered it, and then mailed Sapphire and asked if it was the same.. this is the answer i got:



So it will probably take a while before we will se this :( Anyway, i will keep my order so they won't send my other stuff i ordered. Will wait until they get this on the market.. will be nice with 4x512 Twinmos 3500 Speed-Premium and this board. Then i'll probably add an ATI-vid and a Venice core A64. ;)
well too bad that theyre not the right board :(
IN SWE (men varför ska du ha ordern kvar de e ju bara o logga in o stryka den på ordern,eller du tror att dom ska vara någe bra dom brädorna på komplett?? o vet du om de e för svenska marknaden eller bara för US för jag ska bara ha tag i den brädan)

chefnr1
03-28-2005, 11:22 AM
As said as done. Komplett usally answers within a day or two.
ok thanks :)

Rolle2k
03-28-2005, 02:40 PM
well too bad that theyre not the right board :(
IN SWE (men varför ska du ha ordern kvar de e ju bara o logga in o stryka den på ordern,eller du tror att dom ska vara någe bra dom brädorna på komplett?? o vet du om de e för svenska marknaden eller bara för US för jag ska bara ha tag i den brädan)

Yes, thats truly bad, but hopefully it wont take long before they start producing the OC model.
IN SWE - (Jag ska ha kvar ordern för att dom då inte skickar mina övriga saker jag beställt, dvs minnen osv. Dvs när dom(minnena) kommer in på lager reserveras dom till min beställning. Och sen när dom får in det "Bra" sapphire moderkortet så lägger jag till det i beställningen och avbeställer det gammla. På så sätt så kommer minnena ligga och vänta på min beställning och jag får dom även om dom skulle vara tillfälligt slutsålda när moderkortet finns i lager. Jag är ganska övertygad på att om dom släpper brädan så gör dom det överallt, jag menar det blir ju bara större vinst.)

chefnr1
03-28-2005, 03:04 PM
Yes, thats truly bad, but hopefully it wont take long before they start producing the OC model.
IN SWE - (Jag ska ha kvar ordern för att dom då inte skickar mina övriga saker jag beställt, dvs minnen osv. Dvs när dom(minnena) kommer in på lager reserveras dom till min beställning. Och sen när dom får in det "Bra" sapphire moderkortet så lägger jag till det i beställningen och avbeställer det gammla. På så sätt så kommer minnena ligga och vänta på min beställning och jag får dom även om dom skulle vara tillfälligt slutsålda när moderkortet finns i lager. Jag är ganska övertygad på att om dom släpper brädan så gör dom det överallt, jag menar det blir ju bara större vinst.)

yep me too :)
IN SWE (ok på så vis ja då får vi bara hoppas dom tillverkar o släpper den här värsting brädan snart)

IRQ Conflict
03-28-2005, 03:26 PM
Hi Robert,

They are not the same board, the one you seen @ Xtreme Systems is design for over clocking and we don’t have a product number for this board yet!


Best regards,

Sapphire tech

Lets help them out shall we?

SG-AXE200 and SG-AXE200P how bout this? I break it down like this; Sapphire Gruper-ATI Xpress Enthusiast or Extreme 200/P chipset.

I thought AXE would be a better name than a fish ;)

Fzero
03-28-2005, 03:30 PM
i really want one of these for my next rig :)

i do have a question tho how do you all know the name of the board is gruper when sapphire dosnt even have a product number for it yet?

none the less wicked board and i love the air/water cooling options it offers cant wait for it to hit e shelfs :p:

IRQ Conflict
03-28-2005, 09:26 PM
Fzero, I think "Gruper" is just the name they gave the pre production board.

Ad Rock
03-29-2005, 12:39 AM
Fzero, I think "Gruper" is just the name they gave the pre production board.

I thought Gruper refered to the chipset codename that was used on these boards?

iplo20022
03-29-2005, 02:28 AM
anyone hear about new radeon R520 gpu card.Someone new informatioin for this card.

jagt
03-29-2005, 03:17 AM
ok thanks :)
Okay, got a reply from komplett. As expected:

Heisann,

Det er ikke Gruper kortet vi har liggende ute. Etter det jeg har fått av info så burde de kortene komme i slutten av mai.
--
Per Øyvind G
Salgsavd.
Komplett.no
Translated: "The board in the webshop isn't the Gruper board. After the information I've gotten, the Gruper should be out by the end of may."

chefnr1
03-29-2005, 03:54 AM
Okay, got a reply from komplett. As expected:

Translated: "The board in the webshop isn't the Gruper board. After the information I've gotten, the Gruper should be out by the end of may."
ok thanks, is just to wait then :p:

iplo20022: youre in wrong thread this is all about the ATI xpress 200 board

IRQ Conflict
03-29-2005, 07:48 AM
Ad Rock, You may be right, I was just guessing :D

Revv23
03-29-2005, 12:00 PM
I thought Gruper refered to the chipset codename that was used on these boards?

no the chipset is the Xpress200, no need for code now, grouper is the code for the saphhire version of that board.

jjcom
03-29-2005, 12:16 PM
End of May...so not awhole lot longer. Are they're any other product being released at the time? (like a high end graphics card, new processor, etc?)

jjcom

FireDragon
03-29-2005, 12:23 PM
Lets see Venice...this board and fudo (R520) in a few months...hmm YES!!!!

SLaY3r07
03-29-2005, 01:53 PM
Lets see Venice...this board and fudo (R520) in a few months...hmm YES!!!!

Yeah, thats a recipe for total own4g3 :rocker:

jjcom
03-29-2005, 02:11 PM
yeah, IF Sapphire releases the board at the same time at the R520, then that would be good for sales. A card like that, plus if the board lives up to the specs, than it would be a great buy.

jjcom

RoyaL
03-29-2005, 09:03 PM
i really think that ati wants to realease the board when the new r520 is out.. with all that thing like AMR ..

chefnr1
03-29-2005, 10:44 PM
Here is what they said wheen i contact them.
Q
Hi! i'm very interested of that new motherboard Radeon Xpress 200 Enthusiast Board "gruper" s939 that been shown at CeBit sapphire are going to build, and i wonder when it will be finnish and ready for market, and will it be available in europe aswell..
best regards..
Tommy..
A
Hi Tommy,

ETA is May 2005; please contact your local retailer for more information or preorder.

Best regards,
Sapphire tech

And i phoned the company that import sapphirecard, Ingram Micro and they wont say a word about the new R520.Its just for resellers they said yhey could'nt answer privat person that :)

cadaveca
03-29-2005, 10:46 PM
R520=AMR. MAybe..just..maybe?

Nanobot
03-30-2005, 03:39 AM
And i phoned the company that import sapphirecard, Ingram Micro and they wont say a word about the new R520.Its just for resellers they said they could'nt answer privat person that :)


Thanks for the info chefnr1

These distributors can be a bunch of jacka** .What's it to them giving an ETA on the cards;it's not like you asked the cost price :rolleyes: .

Ad Rock
03-30-2005, 04:29 AM
Thanks for the info chefnr1

These distributors can be a bunch of jacka** .What's it to them giving an ETA on the cards;it's not like you asked the cost price :rolleyes: .

You will never get a definite answer from them in a situation like that. They dont know who you are and if they will be qouted as saying "The card will be out by May 5th". Then you take that date and post it up here and when its not out by then we are start crapping on saphire saying they are a bad company that can not realease a product on time.

Vague answers are a manufactures best friend for unrealeased items :D.

chefnr1
03-30-2005, 05:17 AM
You will never get a definite answer from them in a situation like that. They dont know who you are and if they will be qouted as saying "The card will be out by May 5th". Then you take that date and post it up here and when its not out by then we are start crapping on saphire saying they are a bad company that can not realease a product on time.

Vague answers are a manufactures best friend for unrealeased items :D.
no one said anything about may 5th they said to me in May, it could be May1th and oterwise May 30, they did'nt know exactley when it's release date was.
and they get that i was a private person otherwise i had to log on in an area that resellers only can do :p:

FireDragon
03-30-2005, 06:19 AM
This is DEFFINITLY going to be my Next mobo with a Fudo and a Venice...UMM FAST!!! MAN THAT WILL SCREAM...but yeah relesing the Fudo and this at the same time will a sweat deal (well not really a deal but you know what i mean...) so that is my next system on water of course...

BLHealthy4life
03-30-2005, 02:40 PM
This mobo will be definitely be sweet.

Let's see....sell the DFI Ultra-D, X850XT PE, FX55 and re-up with a Sapphire Xpress 200, R520, and FX57 and I'll be ready to rock.

Ad Rock
03-31-2005, 01:36 AM
no one said anything about may 5th they said to me in May, it could be May1th and oterwise May 30, they did'nt know exactley when it's release date was.
and they get that i was a private person otherwise i had to log on in an area that resellers only can do :p:

Hrmm there must be a language barier stopping you from understanding what I meant by that. I was using the qoute of "may 5th" as an example that they will never tell you a specific release date since they do not want to be held responsible to uphold that specific date.

chefnr1
03-31-2005, 02:07 AM
i knew what you meant! i was just meanig it could be anytime in May and it could be as far as june too.

revenant
03-31-2005, 02:02 PM
wow... I was planning out a new DFI SLI rig, but this changes things a bit... I think I might hold my wad and wait for this board and the Fudo to come out... not only are the stats amazing, but it's so purrrrdy too. :)

EDIT :: WHOA!! http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22203

this is crazy!! so you can fill up all your PCI-E slots with ATI (multi VPU compat) video cards if you want. lol!!

"While NVIDIA SLI splits the screen into two parts and one GPU renders each half, ATI's solution breaks the screen into little squares. Remember the chessboard effect you had when pipelines were bad with the softmod?
That's how it is going to work, just on a bigger scale, called "Super Tiling". Any GPU from R300 and up supports Super Tiling in hardware and they can be mixed when in SLI mode.
However, ATI most probably will not enable SLI for GPUs other than the R4xx and R520 series.

ATI's SLI is also not limited to two video cards. There will be one master card which presents the rendered data to the screen and coordinates the slaves which transfer their rendered data into the master's framebuffer. A physical PCB to link the video cards is not required, everything is done via PCI-Express bus."

found here - http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=2584

That's pretty smart though... they work it so it behaves like a computer "cluster".

zoom314
03-31-2005, 10:31 PM
Here's a comparison I found of the ATi Radeon Xpress 200 chipset versus the Nforce3, Nforce4 Ultra and the Via K8T800 Pro chipsets. Mind You this is before the Sapphire Grouper (or in non-english Gruper) was even mentioned of course.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/530/page1.html

pro7070
04-01-2005, 07:55 AM
Subscribing to thread

mcnbns
04-01-2005, 11:54 AM
I still don't know how much better you can get than the DFI board, though. Still, I'll probably end up waiting for this board before I upgrade. (Venice can only get better in the meantime, right? :D)

Muppetmower
04-01-2005, 07:01 PM
Heh its a very Canadian patriotic board if you ask me :D

Revv23
04-02-2005, 02:12 PM
I still don't know how much better you can get than the DFI board, though. Still, I'll probably end up waiting for this board before I upgrade. (Venice can only get better in the meantime, right? :D)


you kidding? the specs on this alone make it better then the DFI in my book.

but i just pray that it delivers, many times you see boards with this kind of promise and they stink when they arrive.

zoom314
04-02-2005, 02:35 PM
you kidding? the specs on this alone make it better then the DFI in my book.

but i just pray that it delivers, many times you see boards with this kind of promise and they stink when they arrive.

Considering that the ATi chipset has been found a little bit ago to be slower than the NF4 chipset at this website> http://www.behardware.com/articles/558/page1.html I think unless the Sapphire Grouper is faster than the DFI Nf4 Ultra-D, I would then rather get the DFI and a 6600 express card instead. Note I saw It on a website somewhere and I'd thought I'd saved It, So the above may not be the one. :(

Psyche911
04-02-2005, 03:06 PM
Considering that the ATi chipset has been found a little bit ago to be slower than the NF4 chipset at this website> http://www.behardware.com/articles/558/page1.html I think unless the Sapphire Grouper is faster than the DFI Nf4 Ultra-D, I would then rather get the DFI and a 6600 express card instead. Note I saw It on a website somewhere and I'd thought I'd saved It, So the above may not be the one. :(

I just skimmed that and didn't see anything about the ATi chipset. That's the VIA K8T890 chipset, which is widely accepted as not being the performer the NForce 4 is. It's a bit cheaper though, so it works great for a value board.

zoom314
04-02-2005, 05:39 PM
I just skimmed that and didn't see anything about the ATi chipset. That's the VIA K8T890 chipset, which is widely accepted as not being the performer the NForce 4 is. It's a bit cheaper though, so it works great for a value board.

Yeah, I realized that after I typed that, Sorry. I did see a comparison of the Radeon Xpress 200, Via K8T800 Pro, Norce3 and the Nforece4 Ultra and the Nforce4 was on top, But I have no idea where I saw It at, Only that It was at a major website. Although this website does have some bearing on this matter: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_xpress_200/page14.asp

zoom314
04-02-2005, 05:58 PM
I just skimmed that and didn't see anything about the ATi chipset. That's the VIA K8T890 chipset, which is widely accepted as not being the performer the NForce 4 is. It's a bit cheaper though, so it works great for a value board.

I found It, And wow was that hard to do.

http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/530/

TurboDiv
04-02-2005, 07:31 PM
It seems like nForce4 Ultra is slightly faster than ATI Radeon Xpress.

Revv23
04-02-2005, 08:17 PM
^thats not what i read, from what i read the ATI did better in DX and the nf4 did better in open GL, kind of funny actually, as the video cards are the same way.

chefnr1
04-03-2005, 09:14 PM
I found It, And wow was that hard to do.

http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/530/

Thats not the Gruper board thats linked there, it's the test version from Nov- 2004, Gruper is a totally other board and the real specs is'nt released yet..

zoom314
04-03-2005, 09:25 PM
Thats not the Gruper board thats linked there, it's the test version from Nov- 2004, Gruper is a totally other board and the real specs is'nt released yet..

I was talking abot the ATi Radeon Xpress 200 chipset vs the Nf4 chipset, Not the Sapphire Grouper motherboard that is based on that same ATi chipset.

Gsus_Freak
04-05-2005, 02:02 AM
ok yall. I haven't read the first 18 pages but i dont care. Wanted to tell yall that the x200 chipset has been relesed by MSI board at Best Buy. It has the integrated graphics of course, and an pcie 16x slot. have an 3200+ in there. Not bad for an emachine. I plan to install a game on it this thursday, so I will get to test the video. This might be the first machine that you can game right out of the box for a prebuilt system. And with 4 sata connectors and raid 0,1+, and dual channel memory installed already...its a kick at machine with upgradablilty!!!

chefnr1
04-05-2005, 02:16 AM
I was talking abot the ATi Radeon Xpress 200 chipset vs the Nf4 chipset, Not the Sapphire Grouper motherboard that is based on that same ATi chipset.
ok :)

Psyche911
04-05-2005, 10:17 PM
ok yall. I haven't read the first 18 pages but i dont care. Wanted to tell yall that the x200 chipset has been relesed by MSI board at Best Buy. It has the integrated graphics of course, and an pcie 16x slot. have an 3200+ in there. Not bad for an emachine. I plan to install a game on it this thursday, so I will get to test the video. This might be the first machine that you can game right out of the box for a prebuilt system. And with 4 sata connectors and raid 0,1+, and dual channel memory installed already...its a kick at machine with upgradablilty!!!

Do you mean this:
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=RS480M2-IL&class=mb

That's not the board this thread is about. That's a Micro ATX board.

But can someone tell me what the heck the difference is? The chipsets are the same, Radeon Xpress 200. Right? But it's not the enthusiast board? It is the same chipset in the enthusiast board though, just a different board itself?

zoom314
04-05-2005, 10:29 PM
Do you mean this:
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=RS480M2-IL&class=mb

That's not the board this thread is about. That's a Micro ATX board.

But can someone tell me what the heck the difference is? The chipsets are the same, Radeon Xpress 200. Right? But it's not the enthusiast board? It is the same chipset in the enthusiast board though, just a different board itself?

The MSI uses the SB400 southbridge chip and was designed mainly for HP and has No native overclocking ability without an ECS Bios upgrade(It's been done), The Sapphire Grouper uses the much better SB450 southbridge chip which has better Azailia audio and USB 2.0, The SB400 is considered buggy.

Grayskull
04-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong!

There is nothing special required in the southbridge to support overclocking. The reason why the current MSI board is not overclocking friendly is because of their choice of clock generator. A simple clock chip swap would transform the board into an easy clocker. The next obstacle is voltage options on that board or lack thereof. The chipset is exactly the same as what you've previously seen on Bullhead. This should be an indication of how board design is important when it comes to overclockability.

As for the SB400, you will find it on many oem designs. Big oems will never accept a "buggy" chip of any kind. That said, the SB450 is an evolution of the SB400 with Azalia audio support and a few other tweaks.



The MSI uses the SB400 southbridge chip and was designed mainly for HP and has No native overclocking ability without an ECS Bios upgrade(It's been done), The Sapphire Grouper uses the much better SB450 southbridge chip which has better Azailia audio and USB 2.0, The SB400 is considered buggy.

Psyche911
04-06-2005, 08:00 PM
So how will people be able to discern the enthusiast board if you've got low end and high end board with the same chipset? I certainly hope Sapphire wont be the only one with this board.

At least with the (cringe) nForce 4, you've got NF4/NF4: Ultra/NF4: SLI

I hope this all becomes more apparent in time.

zoom314
04-06-2005, 08:02 PM
Wrong, wrong, wrong!

There is nothing special required in the southbridge to support overclocking. The reason why the current MSI board is not overclocking friendly is because of their choice of clock generator. A simple clock chip swap would transform the board into an easy clocker. The next obstacle is voltage options on that board or lack thereof. The chipset is exactly the same as what you've previously seen on Bullhead. This should be an indication of how board design is important when it comes to overclockability.

As for the SB400, you will find it on many oem designs. Big oems will never accept a "buggy" chip of any kind. That said, the SB450 is an evolution of the SB400 with Azalia audio support and a few other tweaks.

Then I was misinformed, Ok. From what some MSI owners who have the motherboard with the sb400 chip, They mention that the Bios has no overclocking options in It. Oh well.

IRQ Conflict
04-06-2005, 09:36 PM
Big oems will never accept a "buggy" chip of any kind.

Now theres a can of worms. Asus P5-a comes to mind :stick:

The SB400 southbridge works but it uses far too much CPU and is slower than most if not all other USB 2.0 solutions, if you do buy a board based on the 200 chipset buy a board with the newer SB450 southbridge, it has decent USB and Azalia audio support.

zoom314, the boards your pals have won't have those options in bios because the clock generator and lack of voltage adjustments won't allow it (overclocking) as Greyskull pointed out.

zoom314
04-06-2005, 09:57 PM
Now theres a can of worms. Asus P5-a comes to mind :stick:

The SB400 southbridge works but it uses far too much CPU and is slower than most if not all other USB 2.0 solutions, if you do buy a board based on the 200 chipset buy a board with the newer SB450 southbridge, it has decent USB and Azalia audio support.

zoom314, the boards your pals have won't have those options in bios because the clock generator and lack of voltage adjustments won't allow it (overclocking) as Greyskull pointed out.

I see, Well that's all cleared up.

Grayskull
04-06-2005, 09:58 PM
Guys, there's no comparison between the qualification that happens on a big OEM's motherboard as opposed to a retail channel motherboard. The big OEM boards are tested much more thoroughly.

Also, there is a difference between "buggy" and performance. There are many situations where others have flaunted performance numbers but have many skeletons in the closet when it comes to compatibility and robustness. I can't tell you how many SATA drives I've wiped out on another vendor's platform wheras to date I haven't wiped out any on SB400.


Now theres a can of worms. Asus P5-a comes to mind :stick:

The SB400 southbridge works but it uses far too much CPU and is slower than most if not all other USB 2.0 solutions, if you do buy a board based on the 200 chipset buy a board with the newer SB450 southbridge, it has decent USB and Azalia audio support.

zoom314, the boards your pals have won't have those options in bios because the clock generator and lack of voltage adjustments won't allow it (overclocking) as Greyskull pointed out.

googles
04-06-2005, 11:06 PM
thats fine but when is this enthusiast board going retail?

amd and intels rush to release dual core cpus recently may suggest that socket m2 cpus will be out on time or even earlier than the projected 1st half (qtr?) next year.

so how many months do you expect to sell this board before all "enthusiasts" switch to a socket m2 mobo?

mcnbns
04-07-2005, 03:10 AM
so how many months do you expect to sell this board before all "enthusiasts" switch to a socket m2 mobo?
I don't think "all enthusiasts" will switch to an Intel mobo because of dual core. AMD is doing the dual core thing, too.

Jackass
04-07-2005, 03:44 AM
I don't think "all enthusiasts" will switch to an Intel mobo because of dual core. AMD is doing the dual core thing, too.
isnt m2 an amd ddr2 socket of the future?

FireDragon
04-07-2005, 04:18 AM
You are right not all will unless the performance diff is HUGE...but by that time DDR2 will have a nice foot hold...but the thing is it is like 754 or 939 just in this case it is 939 or M2...where one has DDR2 support and better CPU's (maybe better cpus)

Psyche911
04-09-2005, 05:16 AM
For those of you saying the nForce 4 is faster, that may be at the time of that review. But that review was posted on November 8, 2004. Here it is, April 9, just over 5 months later and the hardware isn't even finalized. Once it is, probably 6-7 months will have passed, along with 6-7 months of driver improvements.

I think it's safe to say we currently have no idea how the board will perform. ;)