Radiator choice.

[jinu117]

With silence in mind, here are few variety of radiator I am looking into while trying to balance performance as well.
Fans used will be Panaflo M1A with about 7v running through it (not much air but not too little either, by overclocker's standard, it will be on smaller side of airflow)
Options of radiators,
Weapon core (not the monster one :P), BIX3 (or Thermochill 102.3), or BIP3.
Bit iffy to figure out which one will do best with above mentioned fan speed. (due to restriction, thickness, vs heat dissipation capability) One thing I noticed with weapon core is that it is awesome with good flow, but once panalfo is ran @ 7v, my water temp goes up during load by good twice the delta :P (12v = 2c delta, 7v = 5-7c delta from ambient) Another factor is noise of air through radiator but it won't probably be much issue with above mentioned airflow.
Thinking about putting raditor for top of my case but weapon raditor will be just too thick to go in nicely....

[AH^DK]

I would say the 2-302 Weapon core.

[Paxi]

The Thermochill 102.3 is also really good, but it depends where are you from.. because you cant get it everywhere. For example i also wanted to buy the Thermochill 102.3 before but i couldnt get it anywhere in my country so i bought me the Watercool HTF3 Tripple X, which also really rules.

[Craig]

For really low noise/pressure fans you need to consider tha Black Ice Pro. The Pro version is thinner & will allow a lower pressure fan to still get some air through it.

The 120.3 Pro with Panflow M fans @ 7v would be my first choice for what your goals seem to be.

Would not get to as close to ambient perhaps as the core with fans at 12v, but should do better with fans @ 7v.

[jinu117]

Will give it a shot with Black Ice Pro 3 and let you guys know :) I can afford to lose 1c or so temp when aesthetic on 24x7 rig is much better due to it :P (man, I am getting milder day by day instead of extreme)

[MaxxxRacer]

if your looking for a low noise solution that will look good i would also suggest the BIP3. its great for this kind of situation. the weapon HC is for the overkillers like craig and myself. if you want max performance with bedamned silence, then the weapon core is the way to go. but if you want to go with something that will be as silent as humanly possilbe the BIP is a very good choice with the appropriate fans.

[zeebs]

Agree with max, use the BIP for silence... You can use lower power fans since there is less air resistance, plus since it is thinner and the fans don't have to work as much, you will probably get less noise from air turbulance through the fins.

[V I P E R]

And what will be the temp difference between BIPRO 2x120mm and Wepon core it they had to dissipate lets say 200W?

[MaxxxRacer]

sorry, but no exact numbers. and it all depends on what fans you use.. if you use quiet fans that are low pressure its possible the bip would outperofrm the weapon core due to the cores high airflow restriction.

[jinu117]

Honestly I don't think BIP2 will ever outperform Weaponcore... ever :P With fan's running extremely low, maybe BIP3 has chance... I don't know... I will soon find out... :) Parts should start arriving early next week. There are few conditional differences as in ambient temp, etc which need to be taken into account. But even approximation will be good thing to find out. Going to compare between 2x Panaflo M1A at 12v, 7v, 5v (on weapon) and 3x Panaflo M1A @ 12v, 7v, 5v (on BIP3)
Now I think BIP might have slight advantage in 5v scenario as restrictiveness and having extra fan probably will help BIP3. 12v scenario, most likely weapon core.
Think delta of water temp vs air intake are of radiator about 2cm away from radiator is good choice on this? (what I've been using for measuring temp all the time)

[Psyche911]

sorry, but no exact numbers. and it all depends on what fans you use.. if you use quiet fans that are low pressure its possible the bip would outperofrm the weapon core due to the cores high airflow restriction.

Now this intrigues me.
I understand the reasoning for this, but I still have questions.

First off, I want silence. Hell, right now my motherboard temp reading wont pass 38 degress. Sure, that's completely unreliable, but it would seem that I have a capable system here for dissapating this Northwood's heat. I doubt I'd see any performance improvement with watercooling as I'm not trying to squeeze the last bit of performance out of this system.

But when I first asked this question here, all I got recommendations for was the Weapon core/shroud.

If I end up with a watercooling setup louder than my current setup, I'm not going to be very happy regardless of performance.

Let me ask you guys this. I have the San Ace fans, and I'm familiar with their noise. But is it worse once they're sucking air through a heatercore? And if so, by how much?

Maybe I should be considering the BIP. :(

[V I P E R]

I think that I'll go for 2xBIPRO because I'll use more quiet fans and it will be more flexible if you have many blocks.

[MaxxxRacer]

jinu, the bip2 will outperform the weaponcore with papst fans. with stronger fans the heatercore will win though.

the sanace fans wil get noiser on the bip as they are close to the rad. on the heatercore they will not be louder pulling air through as they are moved away from the face of the core by 1.5inches.

[jinu117]

Oh, hell no i am going to do direct installation to BIP3 (note not 2 :P) with fan. Going to make my little shroud to give it breathing room. As for SanAce, it is great fan. Only problem is if you really want absolute quititude, the fan doesn't really start up at around 5-6v. And even at 7v it does move quite decent amount of air. So if quietness is important, Panaflo wins out IMHO. As for Papst, I cant really recommend it due to
1) Cost
2) Build quality (some are really quiet some makes ticking noise)
I've tried papst about 3 years ago and never looked back. Other than Panaflo fan, if you are set on 25mm fan, those bling bling aluminum fans actually do have really good sound characteristic at lower speed. (not as much air as panaflo due to thickness of fan)
Should be getting radiator by monday and start hacking the case.

One thing though, is there anyplace to get this other than at SNT?

http://snt-systems.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=48

I can make perfect 120mm hole (can you say hole saw? :P) but I know how that looks in end result over time... Would much prefer the above grill and cut the case based on that instead of working on it twice :P

Thinking maybe shroud should be made out of plexiglass stacked up about 3/4" inch glued than just holesawed :p Would be quickest...

[eva2000]

i have 2 sets of Thermochill 120.3 with Panaflo 103cfm fans and very quite compared to air cooling hehe

[jinu117]

i have 2 sets of Thermochill 120.3 with Panaflo 103cfm fans and very quite compared to air cooling hehe

Ehhh? Rheobus? or... you talking air cooling of tornada ? :)

[idleuser]

only place to get an airplex grill is through snt-systems unless you do a direct import which will cost you more :(

[jinu117]

Oh lord, this SNT-systems personnal is taking their time on it aren't they.
2 e-mails since couple days ago and one phone call today and no response as of yet. I personally have problem with ordering place like that (sounds like someone's home owned business with priority not on business)
Well, cost is always issue but I wouldn't mind ordering it from outside US granted I can actually read their site and reputable store over someplace where I am having hard time getting even response back. Any recommendation? (Don't think shipping will be too much anyway ) :P

[The Mofo]

I know the dude waits for shipments direct from Germany. I know getting through customs is time consuming, as i work within homeland security, things have to be checked. Im not sure whether or not if he works out of his house. Ive seen pictures of his inventory and its quite impressive. I do know however, AquaComputer stuff is very expensive and he does spend quite a bit of $$ on inventory. He seems to be an upfront guy from what ive read about him, although, ive never purchased from him.

[jpm8o4]

Oh lord, this SNT-systems personnal is taking their time on it aren't they.
2 e-mails since couple days ago and one phone call today and no response as of yet. I personally have problem with ordering place like that (sounds like someone's home owned business with priority not on business)
Well, cost is always issue but I wouldn't mind ordering it from outside US granted I can actually read their site and reputable store over someplace where I am having hard time getting even response back. Any recommendation? (Don't think shipping will be too much anyway ) :P

I can vouch for Dan @ SNT-Systems...I've bought alot of aquacomputer products from him and he is great to do business with. I would try emailing him again or if you want, I can give you his aim sn so you can ask him about avaiilability. PM me for the information.

I have the dual 120 grill and its a quality product. You might have to do some modifications to get that to fit on a thermochill or BIP. The mounting holes are for the Aquacomputer Airplex Evo radiators...

[Psyche911]

The owner of SNT systems posts over on the HardOCP forums, btw. I'm PMing you the link to his profile there. You can check his recent posts, or it also lists his AIM/ICQ/Yahoo screennames.

[jinu117]

Well reputable or not (I still don't trust e-tailors with no phone numbers listed on their site, i had to dig it up from aquacomputer.de), he doesn't have any in stock and has no ETA. That leaves me only few options. Do one of you guys talk German or some other language Aquacomputer products are sold and can find out how much it would cost to ship to US with you product purchased from there? or ship directly from e-tailor there to US? :) Thanks in advance.

[jinu117]

leftclicks.co.uk reputable? They seem to have it in stock there. (UK, I guess I won't have to pay VAT if I buy it from there right?)

[jpm8o4]

You can try also :

www.computer-4you.at - sales@computer-4you.at

www.aqua-computer-berlin.de - info@aqua-computer-berlin.de

I heard aqua-computer-berlin also ships worldwide. I've emailed computer-4you.at and they are pretty responsive when you email them. Good luck finding your grill.

[HiJon89]

A Weapon 302 HeaterCore with shroud and 2 Sanyo Denki fans pushing about 100CFM each would outperform a BIP2 right?

[Psyche911]

By far.
People say it will out perform a BIX 3 with high performance fans. (Don't they? :) )

[MaxxxRacer]

we do psyche

[jinu117]

I actually would like to see head to head comparison from someone on same setting. (avg blocks in there as well) with same heatload and measure water temp after 30 min of full load, etc.

Got the BIP3 in, 3 panaflo m1a (instead of 2 I had with weapon core) running 7v and I am actually getting temp that is 2c better on water temp. (reflects to rest of temp, GPU, CPU unsure yet as AS5 didn't have time to cure up but it is comparitive)
Reason why I think this works better is not only less restrictive radiator, but also 3 fans instead of 2. Funny enough, there was no noise difference from before (have to do with having enclosed case to now somewhat open at top... and DFI chipset cooler isn't the quietest in town... :P)
Will play with 12v setting tomorrow to make some decent comparison with more airflow. Now, again, having 3 fan might yield something unexpected result is my guess but I will have to wait and see (not beating it but getting pretty close... don't think 2c above ambient water temp is that easy to get ;P) Quite satisfied with BIP3 setup for time being.

[idleuser]

nice jinu :) I wish I would of gotten a BIP3 with my server tower before I cutted a hole on top to mount my dual core radiator... now I would have to spend more than I would including buying a new fan grill ect... are you just testing this on a RBX?

[MaxxxRacer]

jinu, I will be doing some testing. I just need to get HWlabs and thermochill to send HWLogic (website i review for) some radiators. Once i get them I will do some testing. I cant garuntee useful results though as some of hte guys (who are very good testers) havnt been able to get worth while results from rad testing.

[Weapon]

I finally got bored enough to order some commercial rads. ;) As soon as I have some free time, I am going to test them along with some other toys with a number of different fans.

[jinu117]

Woot! :) You guys are the best on these :)
I've pondered over BIX3 as well to put inside case but... as you can see, the panaflo @ 7v idea limits the possibility. Well time to turn up the fan and see how close it can get to ambient.

[jinu117]

Well, it seems to be performaing on par... amazing... time to run games and see....

[Weapon]

jinu -- can you shed some more light on the cooling loop you are using?
type of pump, tubing ID, length of loop, temp meter you are using, measuring points, etc.

I'm trying to build up some info for the testing I will be running soon with a new Fluke, 2 different pumps, different tubing sizes, etc.

[jinu117]

jinu -- can you shed some more light on the cooling loop you are using?
type of pump, tubing ID, length of loop, temp meter you are using, measuring points, etc.

I'm trying to build up some info for the testing I will be running soon with a new Fluke, 2 different pumps, different tubing sizes, etc.

Type of pump. 2 MCP 600 running in series, length of loop 3.5 - 4 foot, 1/2" ID, temp meter is compu nurse stuff in middle of t so inside the water loop, only using T-line and no reservoir, blocks, G4, Silverprop Fusion HL, order...
pump->pump->HL->G4->Radi->T->back to pumps.
Temperature under load on 2x 12v Panaflo M1a on weapon is withint +/- 0.5c of 3x12v panaflo M1A on BIP3 (no additional shroud I got lazy :P)
On 7v, BIP3 seems to do about 2c in avg better on cooling the air.
Now I seriously doubt higher speed fan on BIP3 will net you better result, thing is already flowing over 300 CFM through surface as is now.
On the other hand I know for fact weapon core do have room for better temp with more flow... (san ace fans...) (talking about another 2c diff on waterloop) Another cone for middle of roaders with BIP3 is the fact there are 3 fans :p At 7v, 2 or 3 fans are about even. But when in 12v... there is significant difference.
Seems one thing is for sure, you can't get away with noise vs cooling ever :P For now, I set the system up so that it is in rheobus 2+1 fan setting meaning i can turn off either 2 fans or 1 fan (or All :P) for regular use while turning on all 3 fans for gaming ,etc :P
Thanks again for suggestion on BIP3 guys :P Working better than I thought. I fully expected to get higher temp when i moved in all honesty.

[jinu117]

Time to revive old thread for some information I dug up. It seems to explain why I get better result with BIP3 than Weapon dual core with shroud with low noise fan. (I would think Panaflo M1A with 7v equivalent to Papst 12v)

http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=121490&postcount=105

Seems HE102.2 with low noise fan does worse than the thinner rad with lesser fin density. Since it is generally believed heatercore is even more restrictive than BIX or HE 102 series on airflow, it isn't surprising to see the difference... with the way I run my setup.
Something to mull over. BTW, I am pretty sure I am going Dual BIP3 setup on custom made case to completely kill my noiselevel now. Been thinking about it for some time to begin with, stopped due to cost and laziness, but even 3 panaflo 120mm @ 7v is starting to get on my nerve and I could use those couple of degree better performance. I will probably end up making BIG shroud for 2 radi with 4 panaflo 120mm pulling inside case from bottom with car airfilter in middle to make case dust free. All kind of sound reducing skills I've learned will come handy and I expect not to hear the computer 6ft away from it in middle of night when I am done while maintaining temp of top end water cooling system. (oh, my back will hurt when I need to move this though)

[MaxxxRacer]

jinu, is that you on pro cooling. you less?

[jinu117]

No, I "think" I have account there as jinu117. I was just browsing around and found that... :P Lot of times, there are old jewels hidden in these forums. I myself have found few interesting tidbits I found on compatibility, etc as well as quirks somewhere here (VX divider issues with certain mobo, AN8SLi earlier bios not locking HTT, etc) which people keep asking over time again. (dead but thread with good info)
If you see jinu117 on most HW/SW forum, that would be most likely me :P I don't use another nick since it is same as my heatware and e-bay id if I don't have to (which I didn't find any issue yet :P)
BTW, Maxxx how is your proposed testing of radiators going along?

[MaxxxRacer]

ahh ic.

rad testing is not coming along at the moment. no rads to test. but that should change soon. As it stands I am now part of XS review team as a website (www.hwlogic.com) that I review for merged with XS. this happend before I even got any reviews done for them. kinda funny. It happend pretty sudenly. But thermochil, and hwlabs will be more inclined to send me rads to test now that I'm at XS.