TEC power supply woes

[megatron]

220WPotted Peltier (TEC). Qmax=220W, Imax=26A,Tmax=65c, Vmax=15.8v, Size=50x50x3.6mm. Potted = Sealed for moisture protection. *** Use only a Power Supply with an adequate 'continuous' current rating ***.

I have water cooling an icicle tec capable waterblock. Can anyone clarify the power requirements for the tec above? Do you need a power source rated above or below Imax? Does the Vmax mean up to 15.8v? So 12v for example is okay?

I am guessing that a voltage lower than Vmax is okay and will give lower cooling performance with less heat out the hot side. I also guess that the power supply current should not be rated at less than the value of Imax.

Edit: I found a link explaining the relationship between power supply output and TECs specifications:
http://mcshaneinc.com/html/Library_...ml#MatchPwr2TEC

Now I have some links on peltiers theory and also an interesting peltier aircooler combo for sale:

http://www.marlow.com/faq.htm
http://www.wyntec.com.au/peltiereffect.htm

sorry if this is not allowed:
http://www.wyntec.com.au/peltier7.htm
I think swiftech has something similar in its product line.

I have been stuggling to find the explaination of peltier ratings, I hope you can help me.

I also got 4 PSUs for £25 but I tested one of the first pair and although the voltage was 14.8v the current was much too small.

P = I^2 * R where P is power (watts), I is current (amps), R is resistance (ohms) and I^2 means I squared ( I * I).

P = 0.31amps ^2 * 47 ohms = 4.5w (this was tested for a split sec ;D smoke was a warning!)
P = 35.1mA ^2 * 470 Ohms = 0.58w
P = 15.8mA ^2 * 940 Ohms = 0.23w

The above power supply was called Invensys/Weir SMLC110 04 00 found on this website:
http://www.frame-works.ndo.co.uk/electronic/page2.html
Just incase someone else is considering this model, I tell you now, don't waste your time.

I hope I am not flooding this post with too many lines of enquiry, but does anyone know pin outs of this PSU also found on that webpage:
Another Invensys/Weir mains supply Excel 100 01U with outputs of +5v, +15v, +15v and +24v.
It seems to be just bearly capable of running a peltier if I join two in parallel.
Here is the data sheet:
http://www.doomiii.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/+40vDC.jpg
You see the 15v output is rated at 10a and wiring two in parallel (checking for common earths) would give 20a @ 15v.

I dont know anything about the pinouts apart from the live neutral and ground pins.
I was hoping to find the excel listed here:
http://www.lambdapower.com/products/legacy_1.htm
Lambda - invensys wier seem to be the same company. Maybe I should give them a ring?
I think thats about it.
Ofcourse the easy option would be a properly rated psu from swiftech I think. Any links? Or an ham radio psu.

[Bushboy]

Ok for that 220Wer (I have one) you should be fine with a 12v or 13.8v PSU that gives over 20A. You can use PSUs that give slightly less ampere or voltage, but make sure it's not too much below. May I suggest an appropriate PSU, the one that I use, the Samlex SEC-1223 (http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/hamps/2423.html) PSU. It'll power up that TEC pretty well :)

On a side note, it would be better to have this posted in the TEC cooling forum, I'm sure a mod will be nice enough to move it.

[OPPAINTER]

Not sure of your Question, didn't really read everthing but, running a 226 pelt at 12volts works great. Get a 25 Amp Dedicated Power Supply and you'll be in the books.

OPP

[megatron]

Quote" ...I have had chance to test is the SPS-8400 LOWE Switch Mode 40A 3-15V DC PSU still on special at £99."

Jess from OCUK has recommended this in a thread I found. I think I will just buy it and save getting anymore unsuitable kit.

He said this also:
"The couple I & most of the TEc users have is the SEC1223 - this is ideal @25amps/13.8v for your 220W, but is £99.
Although you could try the "W-25SM Watson 13.8V Switch Mode Power Supply", I have not tried this , but its supposed to be an SEC1223 clone, and Watson do build good PSU's."

By the way I am from England so that 220w tec would have to travel a long way if you are in America. If you're closer I am interested, bearing in mind them are only £30 new.

Assuming the dimentions were okay (to fit the waterblock) could I run two tec's side by side in terms of power supply requirements?

[Bushboy]

When I said I had one I meant for myself not for sale lol, sorry I can see how you can get me wrong on that. I do frequently send packages to England though, costs me an arm + a leg. I'm not sure about that waterblock and using 2 TECs, I know the MAze 2-2 is made for that though.

IMO the Samlex is the best buy, works perfectly.

[megatron]

The price of the one I am looking at is £99 +£3 *17.5 VAT = ~£120.
Maybe I should have a look on ebay.co.uk since I am trying to keep costs to a minimum. On the other hand it would be nice to have a real adjustable bench PSU (3v-15v)just incase in comes in handy like. :D

What usually happens to power supplies when you put two tec side by side. The dimentions of the cold plate are:
60mm * 50mm ignoring screw holes or 48mm * 30mm.

[Bushboy]

Yes, they can be expensive, well hey are expensive :D You could try ebay, though I doubt you'll find one, but you never know. If you ordered the one from the link I showed you in USA for $90 (roughly 60pounds) and have it shipped to someone in US, then pay them for shipping charges (for something that heavy about $35 - roughly 22 pounds) you could save yourself about 40 pounds :)

[KnightElite]

The SEC1223 that was recommended to you is great, I use it myself. When you start getting into high current adjustable supplies, it gets expensive. At the store I bought my SEC1223 at, they said that for a 0-36V adjustable PSU that could deliver 25A it would cost around $4000 :eek:!

As to actual requirements, and actual amount of heat transfer at a given voltage, it is directly proportional to the voltage, so, with an SEC 1223, you would get:
13.8V/15.8V = 0.873
Therefore, cooling power = 220W * 0.873 = 192.06
Total current Draw: 0.873 * 26A = 22.7A
Total heat output (P = V*I): 13.8V * (22.7A) from TEC only = 313W
(You also have to add the heat output of your CPU to this number to figure out how much your rads will need to dissipate)

At least I think that's the way it works ;). Best of luck with your setup.

[megatron]

M8 thx for the info, do you have a reference for that (i.e. where did you get the information)?

I think this is a good reference for working out the heat generated by an overclocked cpu (and peltiers in general):
http://www.cheese83.freeserve.co.uk/athlon.htm

I am working in rule of thumb territory. I want to know the tec is powerful enough to cope with the heat from my CPU, and know that my watercooling system can cope with the cpu heat + peltier heat. I also want to know the my power supply is able to cope with powering the tec. After this - I don't want to know. :D

I am confedent that I have correctly estimated the power requirements above. I will keep you posted about the power supply ;D.

[KnightElite]

I checked my data with the things that his TEC simulation software brings up, and my method gives the same answers. So using my numbers, you should be good to go.

[megatron]

Zurich 30A, 0-15V DC PSU
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are bidding on a Zurich DC power supply which is capable of supplying 30A at between 0 and 15 Volts. It is excellent condition and requires a 240V AC supply. It has three DC outlets, one set of terminal posts and runs equipment to a maximum of 30A, the middle socket allows a 10A max. cigar lighter type connection and the third is for a maximum of 6A. They say a picture paints a thousand words so check out the image below!

I bid £52 and got it for £54 + shipping and packing.

I waiting final proce from seller - seem a reputable trader in ametuer radio communiction stuff.

[KnightElite]

Should be an awesome power supply. That's a really good price for a variable voltage supply.

[megatron]

Check out my sig for new pelt temps. Water temp is 16 deg c and so far looks at equilibrium.

[KnightElite]

Pretty good temperatures, though with a 220W TEC, you should be able to get better than that..... I hope anyway. I get similar temperatures, but not until I pump 2.15V, 1900MHz into the CPU, and that's with a 156W TEC.

[megatron]

Jess mentioned focussing the thermal energy and the insulation being there not just for condensation protection but for focus too. Any tips on this? BTW my cold plate cpu core interface is filled with shinitsu paste which does not spread as easily as the ACII. It also takes a day or two to bed in. I may have put too thick a pasting on. I do have neoprene on the cpu dye so this maybe taking pressure away from this interface.

My water temps are 16 deg c. What are your water temps?

[muzz]

I'm actually considering buying a 226 pelt, and have been reading up a bit regarding them here and at procool. I have a 35amp PS(5-12v) thats just sitting around waiting for me to do something with it. Dangerden sells them for $38 and I would need to get the cold plate with it $15, neoprene( how much )...... Knight you seem to know a bit about this stuff - am I missing anything ? I already have a maze2 running 1/2" . I will need to upgrade my RAD I'm sure of it, as I wanted everything in my case not outboard( right now it's bolted to rear of case right above PSU ), and bought that crappy cube that he sells. It works OK, but considering I have a 1250 and 1/2" it should be alot better. Now that I've upgraded to a 8RDA+, with 3500c2 memory I really want to take advantage of the water. What do you suppose I will get for temps with even an average rad in there instead of this thing, with a 226?

Edit: I found some info over at LN stating that the temps would only go down to about 25-30 with a better rad...... I dont believe I'm going to do this now, as it doesn't seem worth the the risk and work for only a small increase in cooling.


Thanks,

muzz

[KnightElite]

Originally posted by megatron
Jess mentioned focussing the thermal energy and the insulation being there not just for condensation protection but for focus too. Any tips on this? BTW my cold plate cpu core interface is filled with shinitsu paste which does not spread as easily as the ACII. It also takes a day or two to bed in. I may have put too thick a pasting on. I do have neoprene on the cpu dye so this maybe taking pressure away from this interface.

My water temps are 16 deg c. What are your water temps?

My water temps generally sit above 25ºC, I think. I don't actually have a thermal probe in the water, but I do measure the intake and exhaust air temperatures into the rads, and intake is generally ~20ºC and exhaust is ~25ºC, which is probably about where the water temperature sits. At stock 1400Mhz, 1.75V, at idle (with no WPCredit tweaks) I get 3ºC, load (running SETI@Home) I get 8ºC. At 1900MHz, 2.15V, I get 38ºC. All temperatures are from the socket, so they should be taken with a grain of salt.

[megatron]

Bad news: I replaced my r8500, xp1700, kr7a-133. Due to lack of petrolium jelly around the socket pins ( I used silicon spray which just does not do the job).
Good news: I got r9700pro, Epox 8DRA+, XP1700 AGOIA, (just noticed my r8500 is fine :D, and mobo too probably). The new CPU was ordered unlocked but - unfortunatly - its not. It has the silver on it, it just doesn't like anything but *11 and *7.5.

I can run 164Mhz (with my thermaltake active cool bog standard winbond pc2100) all day but 166Mhz and the CPU @ 1826 its unstable (I checked the memory for stability - 166fsb *7.5. It seems I need a little optimisation of my thermal focusing i.e. more well placed neoprene. The temp seems to run away when I up the voltage to make it stable at 1826Mhz. I think this should be achieveable by just finishingstacking neoprene round the waterblock and insulating the alu cap and some insulation for the tubes leading to out side the case.

It would be simple if I had a properly unlocked chip. You know the new beta bios for the 8DRA+ unlocks the Tbreds by default, but does it do the palminos too?

[KnightElite]

It will allow you to increase the multiplier above 12.5X once the CPU is unlocked through the L1s, but that still has to be done before you can change the multiplier.

[megatron]

What I mean is - I paid someone else to unlock it for me. £8.25 well spend IMO. Unfortunately as neat as it looks, it doesn't unlock the multipliers!:eek: :slobber:

[megatron]

I had an accident twice now with first condensation and then I assume not sufficient cooling the the variable voltage PSU. So I am giving up TECing. I wasted two xp1700. I am getting a xp2400 and just sticking to watercooling with my fans outside on the rad. I still can use the PSU for controling fan speed outside. From 12v fan up to 14.8v or down to 1v if you like. The ps doesn't get hot when pushing 3A instead of 25-30a.

[megatron]

Originally posted by megatron
Bad news: I replaced my r8500, xp1700, kr7a-133.

I didnt lose the 8500 afterall. Possibly not the kr7a-133 either but definatly the xp1700.

Sure it worked for a while. Maybe I just needed to cool my PSU. I cant justify taking the risk anymore. I will just get a faster processor and run watercooling.

My PSU got "tetchy" and didnt want to start and must have cut out when playing a game. If I come back to supercooling it will be in the form of a prometeia or similar. I don't ave plans to blow all my money at the moment though.

I cant really thing of any good uses for my TEC. Perhaps in the end - since I learned about condensation the hard way - all I needed to be stable was a little cooling for the PSU. That will teach me to buy cheap off ebay. Although using it for ametaur radio like its previous use would be fine. This is a critical application though.

[megatron]

I have a new improved setup. May venture into TEC land again though.