How do i "break myself into" linux

[Skip]

i'm only 18, but i have been around windows all my life, and never really explored programming at all. but have always been interested with the guts of a computer.

but recently i've been wanting to get into linux. so what i have done so far is download and install slackware 10.1 but with the 2.4.xx kernel, as it was the one on the cd. so i guess one of the first orders of business would be to update the kernel. any good guides for that?

also i'm having trouble setting up my interent, the netconfig of slackware seems pretty crappy, i went about halfway through the gentoo installation before giving up, but getting online was easy, i just listed all the net drivers, figured forcedeth meant nforce4, and did modprobe forcedeth, and then i set up the internet from there, but slackware asks me for domain, and host and all that crap, while gentoo set up a lot like how you could set up internet explorer with ethernet, you say dynamic *in my case* ip addres and autodetect everything else.

so how do i get the network up, i'm sure there is a better way that netconfig, i just haven't found it yet.

thats all my questions for now. i just perused KDE a little bit, seems like it won't take that much getting used to.

thanks for any help anybody provides on either of my 2 questions. please remember i'm a total newb at this :)

[smokey]

Well, let's start with the kernel... that's a good place. Since you're already using Slackware 10.1 (2.4.29 kernel), you don't really need to _upgrade_ the kernel (as that is the current 2.4.x version) so much as maybe _configure_ it. On Slackware, I generally follow these steps to recompile a 2.4.x kernel:

You'll need to be root from here on out:

Download the latest kernel from kernel.org (or a mirror).
From the directory into which you downloaded the kernel do:
`mv linux* /usr/src` (without the backticks... obviously)
Now, unzip the file:
`tar xzf linux*.gz`
Change directories into the _new_ kernel's directory:
`cd new_kernel_dir`
Now, there are several thoughts on this... this is the easiest way, imho:
`vi Makefile` <-- edit the Makefile
`/#export INSTALL_PATH` <-- find the line to edit
Type 'i', do enter insert mode, then 'l' to move over one spot, then Delete, to
remove'#' from that line. Hit Esc. Then type 'ZZ' to save and exit vi. This will now install your kernel to /boot for you. (saves some steps later).
Now, edit lilo.conf so that you can boot from the old kernel, if you need to:
`vi /etc/lilo.conf` <-- edit lilo.conf
Notice how lilo.conf is setup. Get down to the bottom of the file and add the following:
image = /boot/vmlinuz.old
root = (same as the first entry's root)
label = Linux.old
read-only
Type Esc to get back to Command mode, then type 'ZZ' to get out

Copy your old .config file to the new kernel directory by doing a:
`cp ../linux/.config ./`

One final little 'maintenance' task, before we begin with the actual kernel:
`cd ../` <-- get back to the /usr/src directory
`rm -f linux` <-- remove the old kernel source link
`ln -s linux-2.4.version linux` <-- where version is the last number of your new kernel
`cd linux` <-- get back to where you were

Now, on compiling the kernel:

First, it is recommend to do a 'make mrproper' in the kernel directory before you do anything. This is to 'clean up' any inconsistencies within the directory. This may not be necessary for the first compile, but it's a good habit to get into. Now do a `make menuconfig` to get to the menu-based configuration system. This will use your old configuration as a starting point, and you can customize anything you want from here. Once done, follow the menu to exit. Back at the prompt, do a `make dep clean bzImage` and a `make`. You may need to just leave it and go find something to do, if you're on a slow computer. Once the actual compilation of kernel main is done, do a `make install` to install your shiny, new kernel to the proper place (note that when we edited the Makefile, it told it to install to /boot _and_ run lilo for us, thus saving us a few steps here). Now do a `make modules modules_install` to compile the new kernel modules and install them in the correct places. You may now reboot and enjoy your new kernel. If something goes awry, you may always reboot to the new kernel through lilo (because we added that option named Linux.old to lilo.conf). Your all set from here! You may need to recompile ALSA or reinstall 3rd Party video drivers, if you use them.

[smokey]

Now, onto the network. netconfig _is_ probably the easiest way to get your network running for the first time in Slackware. First, we'll need to check to see that your ethernet is detected and operational (if not, we'll debug that in another post ;)). ifconfig will tell us all we need to know. Go ahead and type `ifconfig` into the terminal. You should see an entry for 'lo', your loopback (127.0.0.1 or ::1), and one for eth0. You may have more or less entries based on your specfic configuration. It's eth0, though, that we need. If you don't see it, post here, and we'll go from there. Now, run netconfig... You'll need to answer all of those hairy questions, now. Your Hostname is whatever you'd like to call your computer; you could use 'HAL' if you'd like. Now, your Domain is probably going to be foo.local, so it really doesn't matter what you put there, either. Just put something. netconfig will ask you if you'd like to setup DHCP, then just follow the guide onscreen. If there are any other questions you'd like answered, just post. ;)

[Skip]

hmm... well i guess i did have the network setup when i tried teh last time. just never checked to see if i did it right.

is there like an extensive manual for slackware like there is for gentoo? i printed out the manual for gentoo and it was like 100+ pages.

it would really help if there was just a manual that would say how to install stuff. i have the tar.gz files for firefox and thunderbird sitting on my desktop and i would like to install them. but i really don't want to have to come here for every little quesiton, maybe just for the nuances and problems i come up with. like the kernel thing. but i'm sure if there was a good manual i could figure out most everything i would care to know.

[sllywhtboy]

unfortunately, slackware isn't probably the best distribution to start with. :) there's a couple other recent threads in this section about what would be best to start with.

--slly

[sjohnson]

For an easy to setup and use distribution, I'm still saying MEPIS wins. Like Knoppix, it has a live CD (boot from CD to try it out), very good hardware detection and automatic support, and a nice mix of applications for browsing the web, listening to music, ripping CD/DVD's, installation "wizards" etc.

D/L link: http://www.mepis.org/book/view/1462 - SimplyMEPIS 3.3 was just released yesterday. Download the ISO, try it out, then install if you like it.

[smokey]

Guys, he's already got it installed, and that's half the battle. Let's give him some support, instead of telling him what we think would be easier for him - I'm sure he isn't stupid. It's comments like those that make the image of installing and using Linux/UNIX day-to-day more daunting for new users.

sjohnson: There are plenty of resources for Slackware help online. Some more dated than others, but things really haven't changed very much in Slackware. There's always the Slackware Essentials book at http://www.slackware.com/book/; it will give you some direction. Some of my favorites for help with Slackware are:

The 'Man': `man <command>` usually will tell you enough to get started - use this _first_!
Jack Lai's site has some great tips for beginners at http://members.cox.net/laitcg/new/intro.html.
Userlocal.com - the 'official' online Slackware community site.

You can find plenty of packages for install using Slackware's pkgtool system at linuxpackages.net and www.slackware.com/pb/. I tend to only use packages from the slackware.com address, as the inconsistency of lp.net's packages has been an annoyance to me in the past. If there isn't a package available, you can always make one! Look for a tool called checkinstall - it's worth your time, every time.

[Skip]

okay, thanks for those links, i bookmarked all of them. so when i downloaded firefox and thunderbird from the web initially, they were tar.gz files, and i guess slackware only will do .tgz files, and using that package finder i found that the new KDE 3.3.2 has both firefox and thunderbird it it. so my first little project will be to install the new kde.

or actually now that i see it, there is on that linuxpackages.net they have firefox as a .tgz file. so if i were to go and install that new kde, would it just overwrite the initial one that was installed with my slackware install?

http://www.userlocal.com/articles/slackwaretools.php this getting to know slackware packaging tools was a good help.

i actually have kde 3.3.2, so i'll just go and see if i can install the firefox and thunderbird from the linux packages site.

do you guys recommend me using that Konsole thing that KDE has? or should i not screw with that.

[sllywhtboy]

my tip of the day: google for linux problems. search for your problem and add $flavoroflinux howto at the end. seems to help me through most problems.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rls=GGLD%2CGGLD%3A2005-05%2CGGLD%3Aen&q=forcedeth+%22slackware+10%22+howto

as for updating the kernel, i haven't compiled my own since i was using slack 8.1. i just go grab my current distribution's current kernel binary package for the flavor i'm using and install it with the flavor's package manager. slackware hasn't traditionally been all that user-friendly. i haven't messed with it in 2+ yrs though.

--slly

[Skip]

the links smokey gave me will shut me up for a while :)

[sjohnson]

Guys, he's already got it installed, and that's half the battle. Let's give him some support, instead of telling him what we think would be easier for him - I'm sure he isn't stupid. It's comments like those that make the image of installing and using Linux/UNIX day-to-day more daunting for new users.
...
.
I couldn't disagree more with that. All the rest, smokey, in complete agreement.

I've "Handheld" new users too many times to be able to agree with "make what you have, work."

Just like a new anything, the more work put into it before enjoying it, the less likely someone is to stay with that new something.

[Skip]

i don't mind even if i have to read a book about it. i'd rather have a nice book which would be good for future reference to have. except i doubt that there are any books that are worthwhile that are about learning slackware.

so how did all you guys learn linux? its not like its something your born with. and its not gui based until you are like finished. so what did you guys do?

edit: i do some shopping at amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=stripbooks:relevance-above&field-keywords=slackware&search-type=ss&bq=1&store-name=books/ref=xs_ap_l_xgl14/104-0564361-7456710

hopefully that takes you to the search i see. i just typed slackware, and then made it search only for books, any of those books worth while? should i also maybe get a book that is a broader topic than just slackware?

[sjohnson]

I believe the first book in your google link, Slackware Linux Essentials, is the printed version of the online book linked to by smokey. Since it's online, buy it or not as you see fit.

It appears you're in Illinois. Is that right? If so, consider joining a Linux User Group. Use "Illinois LUG" in google and pick an active group near you. You'll likely find folks who will be able and willing to do some hands-on with you and your PC, to get you the experience you need and your PC configured the way you want it to be.

My first computing experience was on CDC mainframes, but my first real computing work was at the Bell Labs, doing UNIX in the documentation, development and system administration areas. So, Linux came naturally to me and MS PC's were the system I struggled with :).

Over the 'net isn't nearly as good for learning as working or playing with like-minded people, so a LUG would be my recommendation. Not that folks won't try to help over the net.

[Skip]

yea i'm in illinois.

so like slackware for dummies isn't good? or any of those amazon books?

okay, i'll look into the user groups. but just so everybody knows, i was expecting a struggle with all of this new stuff :)

[smokey]

I've never owned a 'Slackware' book, honestly. In fact, I've read through a couple of 'Linux' books from the Library, and have been impressed (technically speaking) by very few. From a beginner's standpoint, things can be hard, but as Linus Torvalds has said before, "do it yourself." This has generally been my outlook. I grew up at the command line, and have been a UNIX user since... Well, before Reagan, that's good enough, I think. With regard to dead tree material, I have few recommendations for the Linux user: for the nontechnical issues I choose 'Linux and the Unix Philosophy' by Gancarz - great stuff. For the technical side, nothing beats a good mentor. If you can't figure it out on your own, and you just want to throw your hands up and say 'Uncle', a good friend or colleague's support, if only in spirit, can make all the difference.

[Skip]

well, i can't do anything if i don't know what to type in the command line. i already understand some of the ideas, of how to go about doing stuff, i just need to know what to type. which is why i'd like some type of manual or reference. and since i've found already that different distro's have different commands for the same thing. i might as well set out trying to learn slackware.

well i guess maybe i'll check a book out at the library, or buy one. i'll see if i can find a good book review and then buy that one.

thanks for all the help already though.

[smokey]

You may want to check out www.linuxcommand.org. They have some guides to using the command line. Also, google around for BASH (Bourne Again SHell). That is the default shell on Slackware. All Linux distributions have _most_ of the same commands; after all, they are built atop of the same GNU toolset.

[Skip]

oooh, this is like exactly what i wanted. bookmarked. i'll have to sit down next weekend and go through all these bookmarks. this ought to answer a lot of my questions.

thanks smokey for all these awesome links.

[smokey]

No problem. I'm sure there are many more laying about the Wibble, but that should at least get you started.