W/c Setup Suggestions

[fackinlogins]

So far I am looking for a good deal on the following:
Swiftech MCW6002-a
77' Bonneville Heater core
Home Depot Tubing until figure out how much I need
2x120mm fans
Tupperware shroud and Resivoir
Mag 3, or Hydor Pump
Hydrx Solution
Fittings, and hose clamps

Been looking at pumps, does the mag 3 have a reputation for being leaky?

Some recommend the Hydor L20 as it is cheap and needs no work for 1/2" tubing, but it looks puny compared to the Mag 3. 185 GPH compared to 350 GPH. Does this not have an effect? This is probably a stupid question, I remember something about GPH not mattering much or something. If it is good, I don't really care about the numbers.

The Hydor L20 is cheaper, but the L30 is in about the same price range as the Mag 3.

Anyone know of a way to get blue UV dye without buying a whole bottle of it?

Still undecided about: the 120mm fans (want moderately low noise, but good cooling efficiency), the Hydrx Solution(it's green, and I want blue, but its not that important), and the Pump.

I am running on a budget, so no $70 pumps, or waterblocks, $40 radiators, or $15 fans.

Suggestions?


I am building this system for an oc'd athlon xp 2800 on an aopen ak79d-400vn mobo, geforce fx5900 oc'd, dual 256 mb Cosair Platinum Twinx oc'd, 3 hard drives, one dvd burner, and OCZ Powerstream 420w psu.

My case is too small for much else, so most of this w/c will be running outside.

Thanks

[MaxxxRacer]

looks good. ghetto but good..

a few caveats though.

as you asked, the mag3 has huge leaking problems. the entire house sometimes flexes and has been known to literaly break in half.

the gph ratings mean absolutely nill for the most part. head pressure is what your after. the l20 has no pressure what so ever. unless you plan on running a maze4 cpu block you need a better pump. the l35 while also not being very powerful woudl be a better option. if you can scrape some money to gether the Aquaextreme50Z woudl be the optimum choice (that is short of an iwaki)

for fans.. the sanyo denkis were (Still are) the best option but availability is zero for under 25 dollars.. They used to be 4.99 a pop.. panaflows are the next best thing imo.. but they are expensive too... and you said no to that.. to be honest im not sure where that leaves you. dont know any good higher pressure fans that arnt vacuum cleaners and are low priced.. 10 dollars is a cheap as your gonna get... thinking cheapr than that is a hoop dream.

btw dont bother with hydrx. just get some zerex racing coolant from autozone for 5 bucks for a big container.. u get alot more for a better product with a lower price.

as for a tupperware res, you will NEED to use silicone sealer, or plumbers goop. not doing so will end up in certain computer death... be warned.

That HC is the one that weapon modifies and is very good for WC.ing. I would say go with the weapon gear but it seems anything except for bare minimum is out of your budget. so with that said go with the bonneville.

[fackinlogins]

I was pretty sure hydrx was unneeded but I thought I'd throw that out there for comments.

Weapons stuff does look like, well, the STUFF. :slobber: But I am looking to do this for around $120. So I'd rather make my own radiator since I have the welding tools needed. About the tupperware reservoir, I saw in a guide how to do it. Ya, I know, ghetto. But I tell myself ghetto homemade watercooling has to be better than nosiy air cooling, eh?

Well, I am new to the scene and only mentioned the Hydor pump because AngryAlpaca recommended it. Man, that AquaXtreme is pretty expensive for me, maybe because it is DC? I'm having all this outside of the case, so it doesn't have to be DC if that makes it cheaper. Any other pumps less than or near $50?

I also don't mind buying second hand to keep the cost down, so I browse ebay for all these things. If I could find a really good deal on one of those Aqua's, I'd go for it, but they seem rare.

I thought fans were easy to find for cheap, like I bought a silent 92mm for like $8 and its pretty nice. Maybe it doesn't have the kind of output though... BTW that $15 for the fans were $15 a piece, not together.

Dankis being the best fans for $4.99, now so expensive... talk about supply and demand. That shows you how much they can be made for though. Do you have any links to modding fans? I see that terminology but I never see any explaination. "..with the fans slightly modded..."

Any chance that Zerex is blue UV reactive? :D

Thanks!

Edit: I was probably going to do 1/2" tubing, so however that affects the pump, I know the mag 3 needed to have 1/2" fittings attached.

[fackinlogins]

How about if I could get the Eheim 1250 pump, ac relay included for $50, used for 4 months? Is this worth it? Would this be better than the mag 3, and hydor L30, (or any others that are around $50 new)?

[MaxxxRacer]

Well I would go with the hydor l35.. it is more powerful than the 1250 and is cheaper afaik... both are good pumps... personally I dont like relays after my experience with one killing my comp, but dont let that stop you.. it was an isolated incident.

The aquqextremes are hard to get, and even harder to get used for a good price.. so no go on that..

well you will need 120mm fans... Not sure of any good 120mm fans for cheap.. if you give me some links to ones you find I can let you know what i might know about them. (cant think of any off the top of my head as my brain just got fried by a 1/2page integral)

modding fans is just replacing the grease in the bearings... weapn does it for the denkis. apparently it makes them a twinge quieter and run a little faster.


zerex is pink when used in water... lol... sorry..

1/2inch is good.. with a low presure pump you will need all that you can get out of it, and 1/2inch will help keep restriction down. The mcw6002 is also a good choice with a low pressure pump as it doesnt need really high flow to perform. infact its really the only block that performs very well with a low power pump.

[fackinlogins]

Delta WFB1212ME 96.41CFM @ 38DBA $5 http://www.excess-solutions.com/SpecSheets/120mm%20Series.htm

The Panaflo M1A $12
http://www.jab-tech.com/customer/product.php?productid=2094&partner=froogle

I think that I own one of those Panaflos somewhere around here.

So you'd take the hydor L35 over the used Enheim 1250 with included relay... I can't get anyone else on the other forums to recommend Hydor except AngryAlpaca, everyone says they're terrible. But everyone is opinionated on these forums.

Pink.... I wonder how that blue UV dye would work in it, I found some somewhere for like $5. Maybe Purple?

One more thing, I have ran across several abbreviations, but what is "afaik".

And the best part is, I am supposed to be studying for a Differential Equations exam right now that I have to take in 9 hours :eek:

[MaxxxRacer]

the prince on the panaflow is good. i would go with them.. less motor noise than the delta.

i havnt heard anything bad about the hydors, but the eheims are of very high quality. u just pay a bit more for the same thing with a tiny bit less performance.

the zerex wont be noticed.. but blue uv dye doenst show up well AT all. one of the guys showed us and it was pathetic... not notiicable at all.. only the green shows up good..

afaik= as far as i know.

i got that quiz too... mine is 10 percent of my calc2 class. that is 2 weeks from now.

[fackinlogins]

Hey, I bombed the Diff EQ test today.... stupid!

Anyways over at oc forums I get

"don't cheap out on a pump for your setup, you truly get what you pay for - the hydor's purely suck flat out - they don't have the best flowrate or amount of head, and if you exceed the rated head of them, after a while the propeller just starts to spin and wobble mindlessly, not pumping any water, which isnt good"

Extreme overclocking:
"you recommed the Hydor L20, is this better than the mag3?"
"No, but it's cheaper and no work required, with less noise and similar(ish) performance.

"How about the Hydor L35 being better than the Enhiem?"
"nope, Enheim is better."

Here:

"Well I would go with the hydor l35.. it is more powerful than the 1250"

I have heard that mag 3's, the hydor's, and the enheims are all better than each other! Crazy!

My guess is that angryalpaca must be right

"ALL standard pumps perform about the same. By standard, I mean pretty much all pumps with flow between 180GPH and 5 feet pressure to ~400GPH and 12 feet pressure. In a typical system, consisting of a Procore and an MCW 6002, there will be NO measurable difference between these pumps. Changes start getting noticeable on the low end faster. The differences get larger with more blocks, and more resistance, but they’re still very small. "

Can anyone else back this up?

Would you recommend these enermax http://www.jab-tech.com/customer/product.php?productid=2292&cat=81&page=1
over the panaflo's?

[Ancient_1]

If price is a concern the Mag3 has the most bang for the buck, but does need the housing sealed as soon as you get it. Of the 3 quality wise the Eheim is best by far with the hydor maybe the worst of the bunch (if you discount the need to seal the mag3).

With the block and rad you are going to use the pump wont make a big difference in temps.
Here (http://forums.procooling.com/vbb/showpost.php?p=135418&postcount=36) is a link to a post from one of the watercooling dealers in the UK on his expierence with different pumps he has sold.

[MaxxxRacer]

Interesting ancient. I will have to make note of the low quality of the hydor pumps in my pumps sticky.

[Ancient_1]

What I like about the post I linked is that it was from a retailer. Just reading the forums and seeing so many conlicting statements on what is a good quality pump it really is hard to really know. Many people will have cheap pumps last years without problem and there will be plenty that have good quality pumps go bad and just asking on a forum you may get a totally wrong idea on how good a certain pump is.

[MaxxxRacer]

I know what you mean.. But one thing that I find odd is no returns or failures on the csp.

[Ancient_1]

Too new it sounds like for him to know yet. It will take a while for the seal problem to show its ugly head and I think they will come in waves. But I am sure a good percentage will work fine for quite some time and others will consider the pump disposible considering its price and the cost and hassle to return.

[MaxxxRacer]

I suppose... but apparently in that post he mentioned that they are making a mag drive sealess version of the pump that they are getting in stock.. sadly that still doesnt fix the aluminum problem.

[Ancient_1]

It will mostly I guess. They will have the pump chamber lined with plastic from what was said and it will just be the threaded area of the intake and outlet that will have exposed al.

[MaxxxRacer]

hmm... still why must they use al.. just use copper if you want to make it from solid metal... oy...

[fackinlogins]

http://www.ribacorp.com/Watercooling1.JPG

I hope this works, Trying to post a pic.

Well, I was drawing up a picture for suggestions, when I realized I never drew in my pump! It's an eheim 1250, so there is no way to put it inside the case.

Anyone have a similar setup as I am proposing?

Should I mount the pump behind where those red LED fans are now? or will I still need those fans?

This would make the tubing really effecient to run from the pump>cpu>gpu>rad>pump. Is this ok, or should I try something else.

Oh ya, I also forgot to draw in the t-line and fill port. Any Ideas where to put it?

I haven't actually found the box I am going to mount the radiator in like I drew, but if I find a poor lonely piece of electronics that fits the bill, I will hollow it out and cut those holes in the side. I am going to build a circuit to use an old thermaltake cpu fan control knob and mount it to the front. Maybe some bar graphs or something later on.

Here's the back of my case for reference:

http://www.ribacorp.com/images/Back.JPG

I will take any suggestions!

[idleuser]

I would mount the heatercore on top if you can sacrafice a few 5.25 bays if room is your issue a black ice pro 2 will just do fine for you. It cost 58.50 shipped (california) at http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/blackiceproii.html and does the job just fine. It may not be as good as a weapon/heatercore but if you can sacrafice a few temp degree that is less than 5°C differences then go for the BIP2 :)

[fackinlogins]

Haha, Money AND space are the issue. Shoulda put a disclaimer.

[idleuser]

well you would be better off with a black ice pro 2 it does the job just fine :) the 77 heatcore are use for towers with larger space imo.

[fackinlogins]

Black Ice ~$60
Bonne ~$20

I'm a man on a budget.

Bonne outperforms, and I don't mind the external setup, unless there will be some major performance loss. It seems it would stay even cooler though.

[MaxxxRacer]

it will be very cool.. as you mentioned probably cooler..

i dont suggest using barbs to get in in the case.. just do straight tubing.. the more barbs you ahve the more flow loss you get... just put straight tubing in from the outside to the inside...

[fackinlogins]

Well, I was kind of worried about the case cutting the tubes, since I am going to have to cut holes there near the side. That way too, If I ever needed to change my external setup around, I wouldn't have to touch the internal setup at all.

If its a big loss, I wouldn't do it.

Would it still restrict if, say, I got 5/8" barbs and stretched the tubing over it?

I don't know if this would help or not, I was just thinking those barbs would make things cleaner/easier.

Still don't know where to put the t-line at. Anyone got a suggestion? I don't want to put a hole in the top of my case for the fillport.

What do you guys think about mounting the eheim. I don't have it here yet, but I hear its big.

Man, are you guys asleep? How about my order of flow, any comments or suggestions?

[MaxxxRacer]

5/8 fittings would be fine. they are larger than the ID of the tubing so it will help. there will still be a little bit of turbulence but it should be too noticable with the larger fittings.

As to the t line. put it right before the pump.. thats all.

didnt realize you chose the eheim already. ohwell. mount it on the case floor i guess.

[fackinlogins]

Ya, I got a good deal on this setup:

$50 - Eheim 1250 Pump
$25 - MCW50
$25 - MCW6002
$8 - 2 120mm delt VHE's

Still have to buy the heatercore, and the tubing. And eventually probably quieter fans :) , but we will find out.

As far as mounting it on the case floor... there is no room unless I move all the hardrives up to the 5.5" bays.

[MaxxxRacer]

oh ic.. that sucks on the fitting.. got a pic of ur setup.

btw, the mcw500 is a gpu or cpu block.. i think you have the names mixed up... either way i suggest a good amount of zerex with that block as it will corrode.

[specialblend218]

Well, I was kind of worried about the case cutting the tubes, since I am going to have to cut holes there near the side. That way too, If I ever needed to change my external setup around, I wouldn't have to touch the internal setup at all.



Just make 1 inch diameter holes for the tubing to go through then add rubber gromments. You can get them at a Autozone for $1.50 for 4 of them.

[fackinlogins]

Ya, I might go with the rubber gromets, I was just thinking that if a freak accident occurs, and the rad box falls off the top, the tubes will just come off of the back of the computer, instead of possible pulling off the cpu or something and leaking inside.

The Swifty 50 is for the video card, like in the picture ^, the 6002 is for the CPU.

I have access to the glycol stuff they put in antifreeze, so I'll prolly use a mix of it and water.

[fackinlogins]

interesting... my images got changed to hyperlinks?

Anyone else have any pics of their external setup? I'm shopping for ideas.

[MaxxxRacer]

I suggest not going with the swifty gpu block as it uses an aluminum top. It will cause corrosion. even with using zerex, over time it will happen. I need to get rid of my alluminum top for my maze4 asap.

[fackinlogins]

Hmm... I got a good deal, $100 for pump and both blocks, so, getting a differant block is kind of out of the question, since I'm on a budget. I hope it doesn't corrode that bad?