Looking for a Radiator Upgrade

[Player0]

I currently have four BlackIce Extreme radiators running in series in my Cube case. Unfortunately, with 1100w of peltiers, they aren't working well enough. My water temperatures are like 45-48c degrees (with 25-28c ambient temps, which go up the longer the cube is running). With my XP2800+, im getting 6-7c full load at 2700mhz 1.85vCore, but I know I can do much better with this system. I just have to overcome this radiator problem.

I have the radiators mounted (see my gallery if you need pictures) so that two are sandwhiched against each other (one with the barbs mounted upwards, the other with the barbs mounted sideways). This rad sandwhich has two fans mounted on both sides, a 130cfm fan and a 90cfm fan. There are two of these sandwhiches for a total of 4 radiators in the case. The problem with this is that only two of the radiators are really getting fresh air. The other two radiators are getting the hot air from the first radiator blown over them. This is hardly very efficient.

They may work better in parallel as well, two rads, each on a parallel line. I am considering trying to reconfigure this. But, since its a lot of work, I may opt to just mount the radiators so that they each get fresh air.

And for that matter, i might simply choose to use larger radiators. They need to fit in the case. Im looking for radiators that fit 120mm fans (if they could fit two 120mm fans, that would be great). So a size of like 150mm by 300mm might be optimum. I need two like this. I would like something with 5/8" barbs, which I beleive will work best with my 1/2" tubed system.

Can anyone make any recommendations? Oh, and if anyones interested, I will have upwards of 3-4 BIX radiators for sale soon pretty cheap. If i think changing them out is the right thing to do.

[N8]

Maybe a couple of these?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4439

Not sure how they perform against the BIX tho...or that they'd even fit in your case...but they're surely neat :)

[Torinalth]

you you are really having a problem with temps like that I think you might need to move passed radiators and go toward something like bong/tower cooling. if you do have to keep a radiator setup then I'd have to agree with N8 and the lytrons.... way to expensive in my opinion though.... a tower can e built for less than a single lytron.....

Torinalth

[Player0]

Bongs are not an option, this needs to remain self contained. So im stuck with radiators.

[Player0]

Yeah, I saw those Lytrons earlier. They look promising, although I'd have to strip the 120v fans off, since I use a 24v fan controller. And the price is okay. But the tube size is too small for me. I'm looking for 5/8", not 3/8" ID. With 600GPH, water would accellerate so fast through a 3/8" radiator that I doubt it would work very well. But I could be wrong.

I'm leaning more towards actual heater cores. Although I wouldnt know what model number to get for the size i need. Something the size of those lytons or even a little larger would be perfect. They just look too constricting for my system. Looks like id have to buy from Ebay as well.

Any other options? I know ive seen double long BIX looking radiators before, but not sure from where.

[N8]

It might take some time, but I'd check out www.heatercore4u.com 's database to try to find a heatercore that might be the right size for you.

[Player0]

Excellent link :) Thanks, ill go take a look.

[Torinalth]

oh, here are a few...

http://www.heatercore4u.com/2-317.htm
http://www.heatercore4u.com/2-274.htm
http://www.heatercore4u.com/2-242.htm
http://www.heatercore4u.com/2-192.htm
http://www.heatercore4u.com/2-445.htm

hard to find 5/8 with a double stack.... but a few good choices.

Torinalth

[Player0]

That 2-274 looks really good actually.

I wrote the guy, and asked him to see if he can help me. Looking for:

Barb Size: 1/2" to 3/4"
Width: 6"-7"
Height: 9"-12"

The barbs should be on the top (the 6"-7" side)

[N8]

P.S. I wouldn't buy from that place...just get the heatercore's make/model(what car its for) and then go get one at a local auto-parts store. The prices are much too high at that site...I simply use it for reference. :)

[Player0]

Oh, so these model numbers are transferable?

Ive not used a straight heater core before. Is it good to put any ducting over them? What about mounting? What is the best way to do that?

[Torinalth]

a lot of people make shroud for the cores to put around the fan(s)

and the models rae prolly not resnferable.... but see the vehicle and talk to an auto parts store.... IE Ford Econoline 1984.... and they can get ya the core. usually around 30 max.

for mounting.... you can always have bolts stick out that it rests on, then take the top and use diagonal bolts to keep it in place... or weld it, use wire that holds the barbs in place.... or magnets....

Torinalth

[N8]

Not the model #'s....but you select them by MAKE/MODEL/YEAR just like in the auto parts store....and well, for example, I think they want $40+ for the chevette core, and I bought it @ Pep Boys for $18.

Shrouds are easy...what you use just depends on how pretty you want it to be. I used simple carboard & duct tape. And I highly recommend shrouds over no shrouds......there is a ton of air being pushed/pulled thru this core of mine thanks to the shrouds. You can see my poor attempt at my ghetto-shrouds in this very forum, just look for the thread w/ my water setup in it. Got new pics coming.....in the middle of fitting inside the case :D

[Player0]

I found that model number on Advanced Auto Parts for $30. So, looking good :)

I just wonder if its that much better than what I already have.

[N8]

Good question, lol. Are the BIX's the ones that look just like the chevette heatercores?

[bigdawginva]

http://thescoopstore.tripod.com/xlr120radiator.htm

Although this rad and shroud combo may be a bit out of your price range I'm confident two of these would be more than adequate for 1100w. I'm assuming you're still running dual pumps.

You could also email JP and he may offer some alternatives. Such as buy the heatercores at AutoZone and just purchase his shrouds. Each shroud will mount two 120mm fans and fit over the heatercore perfectly. I believe he uses a Chevelle heatercore but email him and verify.

Also, I don't know if your YY cube is big enough for these Lytron's but here's a bigger and cheaper version. I paid $22.50 for mine and he's constantly listing them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7321&item=1788464115&rd=1

Have you tried asking the gurus at ProCooling? They seem to offer some great advice for determining adequate surface area required for a specificed wattage (i.e., xxx inches of rad surface for 1100w).

[Player0]

Price isn't so much an issue. I do have $280 worth of BIX radiators in the case already. If $60 worth of heater cores does better, and i just need to work on some mounting issues, well hell...thats cool. Actually, I figgure I have like 1600w of actual heat to cool (only 1100w of TEC cooling power, they are a bit inefficient). But, yeah...I need to cool 1600w of heat down to like...30-35c. Thats like 2x the power of my microwave.

Who's JP, and where are his shrouds located? I figgure I can make my own shroud easy enough with some aluminum flashing or something.

What is a YY Cube? I guess the case? I dont think its a YY Cube, unless thats another name for it. Anyway, I have about a 7" x 12" spot to mount some radiators.

Those Lytrons do look interesting. I probably need something about that size too bigdaw. But im trying really hard to keep a self contained solution. I may be barking up a dead tree tho.

[Charles Wirth]

I will upload some good pictures of my Lytrons (yes I now own more than one) radiators.

Both have great qualities. The linked by Bigdawg has a Y splitter at each port so that water travels in opposite directions when it enters the radiator and meets on the backside. Exceptional design and the price is right.

[bigdawginva]

You cand find the Shrouds and his radiators at the link I provided above to the ScoopStore.

I have one of those rads/shrouds and it's one of the biggest rads I've ever seen. His rads are 11" X 7" X 2" and again, you can ask him what car he uses as you could save a bit of money that way, have your own size fittings put on, and just get his shrouds. If not, he can hook you up with rads, shrouds, and fans.

I have both of the below Lytrons as well as JP's heatercore and shroud. Here's the links to all three I have.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7321&item=1788580373&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=7321&item=1788464115&rd=1

http://thescoopstore.tripod.com/xlr120radiator.htm

http://thescoopstore.tripod.com/scoop_twin_120.htm

I am in the process of putting one or more of them in the following Maxtop $59 file server case that measures 26.5"H x 14.75"W x 22.5"D

http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage.asp?image=11-150-020-02.JPG/11-150-020-03.JPG/11-150-020-04.JPG/11-150-020-05.JPG

[Player0]

That thing is 11x7"?

It looked smaller...it can fit two 120mm fans?

hmm.

[bigdawginva]

Yes. Absolutely. I have it sitting in front of me as I type this. Measured it twice. Complete with silver shroud and two 120mm Adda fans. Pictures do not provide adequate perception of its immense size.

Email JP, he's a great guy or you can catch him in the MO Cooling/Modding forum.

[Craig]

You might also wish to check out this one, if it must replace 4 smaller ones you may need all you can get.

GM 2-223

NOW that one is big. But will still fit into your spec'd space. And if a core can get you what you want, this one can.

[Player0]

Thanks for the help guys. I found some heater cores that might work, i just need to figgure out which way im gonna go with this project. Sold two of the four BIX rads already, anyone else interested?

[SuperFreak]

I am with bigdawginva, These "Scoops" that JP sells are awesome. They have a nice eyecandy look to them too. http://thescoopstore.tripod.com/olshoppingpage.htm

http://www.thesuperfreak.com/images/champagnespecial.jpg

[KnightElite]

Big heatercores are for sure the way to go. I've got two monsters running in Parallel. Here are the rads:
http://hjertaas.duncans.ca/casemod/rads+case.jpg
With CD and 120mm fan for comparison:
http://hjertaas.duncans.ca/casemod/radsize.jpg
With them setup to run in parallel:
http://homepage.usask.ca/~kdh349/radbarbs1.jpg

If you check my photo gallery in my sig, you can get more pics. I've got a homemade shroud and am using two 172mm rotrons to cool these bad boys ;).

[bigdawginva]

Wow, those look even bigger than the Scoop/XLR. I was going to ask how on earth those fit inside a case but see you have a separate case just for the WCing components.

BTW Player0, I've started working on my first WCing project and you can get a better idea of the size of the Scoop/XLR with the pics I've taken.

http://home.attbi.com/~96impalass/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-439633.html

This links just one pic but there are several more at different angles on the site as well as pics of the case that's 26.5"H x 14.75"W x 22.5"D.

[Craig]

I was looking around at some rads and ran accross this beast, and remembered your 1600 watts.

2-417 GM = 103/4" x 61/8" x 21/2" It also has a 3/4" inlet which is larger than your specs but not hard to work with. The main thing is that the total volume of the core area of this core is 164.5" while the total area of 4 BIE is 111.4" a huge increse in cooling area.

Then add two Galaxy 127x127x38mm fans pushing 125CFM @ .35 H20 pressure (48dba:( ). These can ce found at: www.comairrotron.com/dcfans/Galaxy.htm

The high pressure rate on these fans make them great for fighting the resistance of both air filters and the small rad/core openings. And noise rate isn't that bad compared to many of the higher output 120mm fans, while giving a better pressue level.

With a 2-417 core for a rad and 2 Galaxy fans for air I'd love to see the temp improvement you'd get. 1600 watts is a LOT of heat, but this combo of fans & rad is also pretty extreme cooling as well.


Best of luck with your rebuild.

Craig

[Player0]

Thanks for the help everyone. I think Ive decided what I am going to do. I will be getting some new radiator models within the next few weeks which should meet my needs. The radiators aren't available yet, and Im not allowed to say much about them, but they look really promising.

The new system will have three radiators. Two of them are something like 6.5" x 16". They will take three 120mm fans each. I will mount these laying flat on the underside of my case (which I will lift up to provide good air flow). I will use 6 medium powered fans here. I will also be adding another 6.5" x 10.5" radiator vertically to the rear of my case (where the old BIX radiators were).

I'm debating on a fourth radiator. I have room for one more 6.5" x 10.5" radiator (dual 120mm fans) on the right side panel of the case (where I currently have two 80mm blowholes). However, this requires extra cutting and will really impede the whole side panel from coming off very easily, so I will save this upgrade for later if I end up needing it.

I will most likely keep all these radiators in series, and they should all be getting fresh air now, so Im thinking that this will definitely improve my temperatures. If I lower hot water temperatures from 50c to 30c, I should see -15c CPU temperatures at 2700mhz easy. Even if I only can lower water temps to 40c, my CPU should still be -5c so thats not too bad. Still no Prometia though.

I think im gonna give up on TEC coolign after this though. Its just to darn inefficient. Gotta learn me some phase change.

[Craig]

I understand you not being able to give to much out about a rad design you are testing. But could you give the thickness of this rad and perhaps design type?

This would interest me for a new rig I'm going to build. I'm going with a Z series Iwaki pump and was thinking about use of that heater core above. But I could also fit the rads 6.5 x 16" deminsions as well. VERY interested in how it performs once they are installed as well of course. Please keep us posted.

Craig

[Player0]

I wish I could for ya man, but I'm under strict orders from the guys soon to bring them to market. I've probably said too much already. But I'll be sure to test them out and let you know how they work. They should be quite awesome :)

Heater cores are definitely another good route to go. If you can find one in the 6.5x16" dimension range, I would be extremely interested to know about them.