Problems Getting Sub Zero Temps with Prometeia... help.

[Kunaak]

after some testing, my temps are averaging 11 C.

I have tried to tighten and losen the allen nuts to the Microfreezer, and looked on, MBM5... but I can't get that program to ever work...

looked at ABit's winbond monitor, and it shows 11c.
looked at Speed fan and it shows -17 c.

I am not sure what one to believe here...

:confused:

[Kunaak]

and SPeedFan...

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Heh.. Actually I don't think you are having a problem.. sounds average for prometeia .. vapochill would be even worse. Although.. the -17C sounds right to me.. what is your OC and vcore and all that good shyt?

[KnightElite]

Have you tried MBM at all? And what does the BIOS tell you for temps? Could be the Abit software isn't thinking straight.

[Kunaak]

yes, I tried MBM5 and I simply can't figure out how to use it, theres too many tiny options and I try to get rid of the useless features in the display thing, and I can't get them to go away, I try to add things I actually want to see and I can't add anything...
basically I just don't understand how to use it.

as for my Prometeia...

it's now sitting behind me.
turned off, hasn't started in over 2 hours.
I took the Micro feezer off, to redo that part...
see if I did anything wrong.
got everything back together...

and now it powers off after 3 seconds.

I redid all the connections, the power supply is a 480 watt antec true power thats a week old.
double checked the motherboard connections...
so I have no idea whats going on now.

gonna email chip-con tonight and see whats the deal with this.

today, has not been much fun...

[dynetk]

Hey man the kd7 reads the temps way off. I was getting similar results as well. If you look in the bios you'll notice that there's 2 temp readings cpu surface being one of them. That one is inaccurate is was way off for me. I was getting 4-9c idle 2400+ at stock speed. The other one will usually say 0 I forget what the actual name is but it's really the internal chip diode. Thanks to OPP I was able to get the correct reading. Download mbm5 and instead of selecting the winbond diodes select remote. That will give you the correct reading for your chip temps. As for the powering off after 3 seconds do you have your chip at high voltages? If you do the prometeia might not be able to get sufficently cool and if it reaches 40c it'll auto shut off as a safety precaution.

[Kunaak]

ok, heres the latest for me...

built it, turned it on, wasn't impressed with the temps.
turn it off, inspect everything, connections and all.
everything appears fine.
so I was gonna go get MBM5 and give that a second try.

turn it on, it turns off in 3 seconds.
feel the compressor panels and it's hot as hell...
like hot coffee in your hand kinda hot.
so I read to the section where it says it's got a thermal protection thing, and to leave it alone for a few minutes.

turned it on a few minutes later, same thing...
leave it alone for 3 hours...
same thing.
power on, power off, 3 seconds later.

I take it apart, rebuilt the thing, microfreezer connections and all.

turn it on, it works...
for a minute.

then shuts down, and now I am back at square one.
it shuts off in 3 seconds.

so I seperate all the connections from the prometeia, and test the motherboard and 2 different CPU's and they all work fine.

I then take the Prometeia, seperate from all Hardware so it's the Prometeia alone...
take a spare power supply and test it, by shorting the 13-14 pins of the ATX connection, and sure enough the Prometeia alone worked fine, got down to -44 like normal...
so I power it down.

reconnect everything back to where it goes, so the computer and prometeia are one again.
and...

it doesn't work.
shut's off in 3 seconds.

email chip-con, they are fast with a reply, but they now tell me I have to get a "ATX power conditioner"

now I just spent 753 dollars, only to get something that I am now being told is imcomplete.
cause without this conditioner, it might not work.

so, my last 24 hours have been less then amusing...

[will_perdikakis]

Oh no, Prometeia horror stories already.

Where did you get yours from? Chip-con should definitely supply you with what you need. That is just not fair.

[dynetk]

Try lowering your on the chip first or better yet run it at stock speed then overclock it after the prometeia has gotten sufficiently cool. I had the same problems when I was running the chip at over 2.1v. Now that I set the chip back to default if I'm going to power down for a long time I haven't had any problems since. I guess that power conditioner thing will help out with the high voltage setups, it'll let the proemteia get cool enough before it starts to power up your system.

[JCviggen]

I dont think a power conditioner will help you. I read over everything quickly but it sounds to me that you arent getting good CPU contact. That would explain the shutting down of the system after a few seconds. You cant fry a P4 remember...

A compressor always gets pretty warm/hot. I believe it is spec'd to operate until temp levels where you're going to actually burn your hands. I dont think there's anything wrong with your prom since it works fine without CPU ... so my bet is bad contact.
If you happen to have a coldplate lying around, put it between the CPU and coolinghead and see if it helps. This is just a quick way to determine if its bad contact or not...

[Kunaak]

ok first off...

the computer is cleared, CMOS has been cleared so that it's at whatever default usually is.

rebuilding the computer 4 times, hasn't helped.
including removing and redoing the microfreezer 2 times with new seal string and all.

there is nothing overclocked cause I can't even get into Bios.
cause it doesn't even work for 3-4 seconds.
it needs 2-3 minutes to get cold enough to boot at -33.

I am gonna take the microfreezer off one more time...
but I know it's making contact cause the artic silver on the microfreezer has a impression of the top of the chip each time I have taken it off, and reapplied more and redid the microfreezer connection.

but I really don't seem to have many options...

[Kunaak]

I would like it if they did supply the ATX power conditioner to me, if thats what I need.

but thats not gonna happen.
most places are like this, once you buy it, it's your problem.
I know if this things broken they are gonna make me send it back.
which logically isn't fair.
they sent me a broken one, they should replace it.
not make me spend a of 850-900 dollars on this thing...

thats if this is broke though...
which I doubt.
cause alone, it works.
just hook it to a computer and it doesn't.

as for getting a ATX power conditioner, for free.
not gonna happen.
like I said, its my problem now.
atleast thats the impression I get.

who I bought it from?
it's not thier fault this is happening, so I won't go pointing the finger at them. it's not like they can open each one, inspect it and test it, they just sell it...
plus I have orderd from them in the past, and know they are fine.
with this particular order I got mad cause I felt like I was being ignored for weeks on end...
but it was some virus they had that made them not get emails or something like that.

[JCviggen]

From what you are saying, I cant see it being a problem with the actual Prometeia unit m8... 2-3 minutes to -33 is the normal startup time too, and the compressor is supposed to get pretty warm. You said it goes to -44 on its own.... so thats really not the problem and its the mainboard which shuts everything down, not the Prom... the prom cant do a thing on its own...

MrIcee and OPP have the KD7 + prom as well so it should work... maybe they can add smth to this... the KD7 has a protection which should shut it down in case temps get too hot. I still think that is exactly what is happening. Also, just because you see a nice print in the AS3 doesnt always mean you're making contact. It can touch the core while you're mounting it, but not anymore when its mounted... try and lower the coolinghead somehow, use extra spacers, or stick a coldplate between CPU and evaporator. That would be the best way to determine bad contact...

[Kunaak]

thats not what chip-con thinks....

Quote:

Hi’ Eric



Here are a few things you could try.



1) Check that the micro freezer is mounted in the right direction according to the manual.



2) Try boot your computer from another power supply than the one the Prometeia is powered from, if that works you would need an ATX power conditioner.





If none of the above solves your problem, please fill out the attached claim report with all the requested information and we will find a solution to your problem.



Best regards

Chip-Con Support Department





-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Kunaak
Sendt: 17. juli 2002 09:19
Til: support@chip-con.com
Emne: turns off after 3 seconds.



I got my prometeia tonight...



hooked it all up, turned it on, wasn't getting good temps, 11 c... at 1.9 volts on an AMD 2700 at 2.5 ghz...

so I took it apart to redo the micro freezer connection.

got it back together...



and now it won't start again.

it stops after 3 seconds when I turn the power button on.



I checked the motherboard connections between the wires, those are all fine.

checked a few other things, like to make sure where the power cord wasn't plugged into a fan line, it wasn't...



the power supply is a Antec 480 watt True Power.

less then a week old and I know it's fine...



I thought it might have been the tempeture protect thing on the compressor.

so I let it cool for the last 2 hours, and it's still doing the same thing, turns off in 3 seconds.

[JCviggen]

Well


2) Try boot your computer from another power supply than the one the Prometeia is powered from, if that works you would need an ATX power conditioner.
this would be correct , but the missing part of the sentence is that you need to boot the prom first until a low temp, then power on the mainboard.

But I am still saying its bad contact. Could be wrong, but I dont think I'm not

[|PuNiSh3R|]

I know on my asus board it reads rediculously high.. LIke -25F on the core is what I was getting.. and the mobo was saying 30F.. The probe was under a thick piece of neoprene and silicon though.. and the probe is tiny.. so i couldn't cut a hole in the insulation and have it go through the insulation anyway..

Hey, you could get a CompuNurse.. they do -40C and have the CPU style probe.. that will tell you exactly what you are getting on the core.

Btw, the prometeia runs from the power supply??? Is it an AC compressor that runs from a DC/AC converter? or is it a DC compressor? I always thought it was an AC compressor..

[Kunaak]

Btw, the prometeia runs from the power supply??? Is it an AC compressor that runs from a DC/AC converter? or is it a DC compressor? I always thought it was an AC compressor..

I am not sure about the specifics, but heres how it gets power.

on the back of the lower portion where the prometia is housed, there is a power cord that goes from there to you Computer PSU, the actual plug in from wall power is going into the Prometeia, then out to the Computer PSU...

not very clear is that?

[Kurupt]

"Chris

A couple of things to check my friend:

These things draw some juice when starting up and can sometimes trip a safety circuit inside the Prom...unplug the Prom from the wall and hold the Power button in for 10 seconds. Plug the Prom back in and try it.

Also, if it's warm in the room the Prom is in...if it reaches 40c when starting up, it will autmatically shutdown, which will necessitate do the procedure above also. If this doesn't fix it let me know and I'll contact Steen ASAP.

MrIcee"

Mine was doing the same thing try this out and see if it helps.

[ZubZero]

I got the power conditioner - it's nothing but a very simple hand made PCB, which looks like something made as a school project. They should have included this in the package if there is a chance some one needs it. Judging from its build quality and the very simple design, it couldn't cost more than 2$ to do...

[JNav89GT]

just a shot in the dark but is the option in bios enabled to shut down pc if cpu fan isnt detected?

[JCviggen]

Originally posted by Kunaak
Btw, the prometeia runs from the power supply??? Is it an AC compressor that runs from a DC/AC converter? or is it a DC compressor? I always thought it was an AC compressor..

I am not sure about the specifics, but heres how it gets power.

on the back of the lower portion where the prometia is housed, there is a power cord that goes from there to you Computer PSU, the actual plug in from wall power is going into the Prometeia, then out to the Computer PSU...

not very clear is that?


The only thing from the prom that runs on your PSU is the chip controller which hardly draws any power. The compressor is powered by the internal power supply which is fed by a 220 (here) or 110V (there) input

[Caper]

My friend also have some problems with his Prometeia but I am not sure what it really is yet.
I´m the mechanic :slobber:

Sent an email to Chip-Con support a couple of minutes ago, this is from the mail:

*snip*
Yesterday I picked up one unit för a friend of mine wich also has EPoX 8K3A+ and XP2400+.
The CPU was unlocked by closing the last L3 bridge so it allows multipliers up to max 12.5
Everything was going well until we noticed that 12.5 multi was not enough, his mobo is capable of running 193 fsb that gives ~2412 Mhz.
Therefore we removed the connecting of the L3 bridge so we could run default (15) multi, no problems.
Found 169x15 to be stable, no more(~2530 Mhz)

Good benches but we didn´t like run that "low" fsb so I though I should try lowering the multi and get higher fsb...that´s where the problem started.

Tried lower multi wich just resulted in that the board never fired up.
Cleared CMOS jumper
Waited 5 minutes and this time when the Prometeias released the reset at -33 we just got some signals and the rig shut off.
Reading the manual I suspected the overheating protection kicked in so I waited 20 minutes....same signals upon release -33 and it shutted off.
Waited 30 minutes, same thing.

1.5 hours and it finally fired up.

Tried another low multi and the same thing happend, hard lock and when trying to start again I got those signals and rig turns off.
Waited 45 minutes, same thing.
Waited 1 hour same thing.
This is where we stand right now, we will let it be until tomorrow.
According to the manual it should be enough to wait 15-20 minutes??

Also, that CPU did 2300 Mhz using 2.05 vcore on air cooled by Thermalright SK-6.
2530 is max stable speed with the Prometeia and we must use MAX vcore (2.2)
Is this normal behaviour??
I expected a bit more from such cooling...

The display reads about -27 Celsius at that speed and the motherboard reports about +10 with MBM under full load.
EPoX 8K3A+ reads the internal sensor but I noticed that when we run those XP2400+ with aircoolers at this board we VERY high temp readings so I really don´t know how accurate the readings are with the Prometeia either.
*end of snip*

Stange behaviour...maybe it feel better tomorrow?
And also I must say the OC was kinda dissapointing :rolleyes


Any thoughs about his problems?

Thanks!


:

[Kunaak]

I am glad to finally see I am not the only one having problems with this thing... in a sad sort of way that is...

well, for the 6th time...
I took it apart.
tested everything individually again, the power supply, motherboard, 2 different CPUs with my volcano 9 the ram on my second computer.
everything works.

I put it all back together, and I have no idea what happens, but it stays on this time.
I was smiling, but thinking, I am never taking this thing apart again....

then...

it won't post, cause it won't get colder then -29...

in my apartment, the heat is never on.
it's maybe 60 in here at the moment so thats definatly not an issue.
to be honest, I am losing confidence in this thing, I feel like I bought a junker, like I was at a car lot, bought a car only to have it break down two blocks later, cause I have had it for 2 days now, and it worked once...
for 20 minutes.

now it just stalls at -29 for a half hour before I just gave up on it.

on a slightly brighter note.
I got my Swiftech MCW50 waterblock for my R9700.
I really got to say the things a solid little chunk of metal and I can't wait to try it out.
atleast when I turn on my watercooling...
it stays turned on.

[dynetk]

Have you tried it with 2 psus. Short the one that is hooked up to the prometeia first then when it's cool enough power on the pc.

[Kunaak]

it used to turn off randomly after 3 seconds.
now I can get it to turn on and say on, with everything connected to the computer and all...
it gets to -41 degress.
then won't post.

this is the 10th or so problem I have come across in this thing.

1. wasn't getting good temps, 11c, so I turn it off, that was the first time I turned it on, and it hasn't started since.
2. it started powering off at 3 seconds.
3. the compressor gets extremely hot and takes about 8 hours to cool down.
4. using the supplied artic alumina, makes the compressor stall at -29 and it doesn't get any colder. I switched it to artic silver 3 and now it gets to -44 sometimes.
5. I get error warnings randomly, from the err3 and err4.
6. it works sometimes, then doesn't.
7. the power and reset connections aren't clearly marked what are and aren't postive connections, so it's really just taking a guess.
8. the instructions are very vague, and of little help when I get a problem.
9. I turn it on, and the tempture rises like a rocket and shuts off...
10. I now have it where it can stay on, get to -41 and it does nothing.
11. I tested the power supply, it's fine, I removed the prometeia and tested it alone, and it works. I test the computer and all parts individually, it all works, but hook it all together and nothing happens.
12. getting the microfreezer to make contact seems to be a matter of pure luck, after assembling and disassembling the microfreezer about 8 times in the last few days, only a few times was there clear full contact to the CPU.
13...........

[ZubZero]

Sounds like Maxxxpert :(

[Caper]

Our problems solved.
Don´t know fore sure what it was really but I suspect it was a mainboard issue.

EPoX 8K3A+ doesn´t support multipler changes with unlocked XP 2400+, when trying lower multipliers than default 15 the board "hardlocks" and we have to clear cmos jumper.

Even though we did it with the Prometeia connected it didn´t help...but we let it be over night with cmos jumper on "clear" and without PSU power cable connetcted to the mainboard.
Mounted an aircooler and next day it fired up.

Mounted the Prometeia again and now it runs like it should again.

[DaGooch]

GJ Caper! :D

[Its-Freezing]

Originally posted by ZubZero
I got the power conditioner - it's nothing but a very simple hand made PCB, which looks like something made as a school project. They should have included this in the package if there is a chance some one needs it. Judging from its build quality and the very simple design, it couldn't cost more than 2$ to do...

This is really great news Zubsub, I would be more than happy to buy them from you instead then, I would even pay you 5$ each, so you can make 3 buck on each and every one of them, considering what you say is true, we would be needing plenty, Just realise: plenty * 3$ what that will turn into $$$ :D

OK, since it's you, I will make you an even better offer. I will actually share with you the total profits from it, when we subtract the total production cost from the sales price, now that just has to be an irresistable offer, doesn't it ?

It might however result in you having less time to present your so un-biased thoughs everytime the word Prometeia gets mentioned, but we can't have it all can we :rolleyes:




Originally posted by ZubZero
Sounds like Maxxxpert

Is it only me, or are you just getting a bit too predictable in terms of providing "un-biased" comments at each and every opertunity you see fit in connection with the word Prometeia.

If it was'nt because your style was so easily detectable, you should perhaps consider a new alias ;)

Steen - Chip-con (<-- just in case)

[killersushi]

If anyone is comparing chip-con with maxxxpert, they obviously have not dealt with both of them. They are the exact opposite, chip-con is very straight-forward, offers great and fast support and they are very uncomplicated. Maxxxpert on the other hand... well you know the stories. I am one victim myself, they still owe me money that I payed them a long time ago, for a unit that I never got. No it didn't break down, I never got one at all. And they don't seem to feel like answering my mails or paying me back. And of course they had major quality issues, it frightens me that they still exist and seem to be still selling stuff.

[PiLsY]

Heres something to try - had this recommended to me bya friend of mine and it works a treat.

Tilt your actual prometia unit about 45 degrees to the side until you "feel" a clunk from inside. Prop it at this angle with the hose and evap head directly upright and leave it for a good 3 or 4 hours (preferably overnight). Tilt it back to normal and connect it up.

This basically lets all the lubrication drain out of the hose and evap and back into the compressor where it should be. Apparently its a well known trick in the refrigeration industry.

PiLsY.

[Its-Freezing]

Some additional Install tips. ;)

When first time users (newbies) are to prepare for an installation with the Prometeia, it could be a good idea to first have some reference knowledge of the hardware you are going to use.

Have your PC started up with a standard heatsink and test it for OC’ability, just at nominal V-core voltage. This will give you some idea of what your CPU should be able to cope with at higher than ambient temperatures.

If your CPU is an AMD, it might also be an idea to end up with a reduced CPU speed (under-clocked) at a reduced V-Core level. This will further protect your CPU, if you happen to have a poor thermal contact on your first installation.

Turn off the system with these settings, and prepare your installation of the Prometeia according to the instructions in the manual, be sure to read these instructions carefully, so you don’t miss an important point.

After having performed a test upstart without any power to the MB, and verified that the cooling system goes below –40 degrees at no load (typically between –43 and –48 depending on 115V/220V model), you are ready to start up with the MB and CPU connected too.

Please be sure to wait a couple of minutes before restarting the system (otherwise the Compressor might not be able to start, and you will end getting an Error 3 and 4, and a very hot compressor).

If the PC turns off within a couple of seconds after powering it up, you have most likely made an assembly error, and a bad case of thermal contact with the CPU. Only the MB health monitoring functions are able to turn off the system so quickly. Do not try to restart the system again, to find out if what you saw was really happening, otherwise you run a great risk of damaging your CPU permanently, take it instead apart, and inspect your mounting, and your thermal imprint on the evaporator.

If you are using an Intel P4, recheck in particular that the screws holding the mounting bracket in place (from the rear cover side) are firmly in place holding the mounting bracket firmly down against the MB on it’s feet, otherwise the Microfreezer cannot be held properly in place.

If you are using an AMD processor, recheck that the bracket around the socket is level with the MB, and that none of it’s legs are standing on an SMD component, otherwise the Microfreezer cannot be seated correctly.

In both cases, make sure that the thermal bus has been shaped and placed, so that it does not present a major pressure in one direction.

With the system started and running, you now increase your clock speed and V-Core and compare with your previous results without the Prometeia. If they are not better than before, the most likely reason is still that of bad thermal contact, in which case you perform above-mentioned steps.

If they are better, you can continue increasing these.

Note until now we have not payed much attention to the CPU temperature as measured by the MB, this is because a lot of MB’s simply are not able to measure temperatures at that level reliably anyway, they may even report a possitive temperature instead of a very negative one ! If the CPU temperature reported by the MB (BIOS) is either steady or lowering when applying higher V-core and speed, this is a significant sign of an incorrectly reported CPU temperature !

As a final note please observe: That although it might be possible to increase OC’ing the CPU further with a higher V-core, Chip-con does not recommend a V-core above +20% for prolonged 24/7 operation.

If you want to try with a higher overvoltage, you should at least take the precaution of using an ATX-power conditioner, for added protection, preventing the CPU from being applied such excessive overvoltage until it is well below the freezing point.

It is typically in the start-up process with temperatures rising to over +30 degrees (up to +50 in the core) until the cooling kicks in, that the combination of an overly excessive V-core together with the relative high temperature will kill a CPU.

Hope this information will be helpful to all the newbies in this field. :cool:

Kind regards
Steen, Chip-con