1gig bh-5 or VX ??

[Nube]

Hi.. im gonna build a new system soon..

AMD 64 3500 winchester
DFI NF4 ultra
ATi x850XT PE
2x 74gig raptors raid 0

Im planing to overclock my cpu to around 2600mhz~ on a good HSF

Should I get 2*512mb Mushkin pc3500 lvl2 bh-5 memory
or 1gig OCZ VX memory ?

would 1gig bh-5 overclock to 250~ with 2-2-2 timings like VX or only like 233

[derprof]

whats up with tccd ?

[amilian]

VX or TCCD. Don't get BH-5 you'll regret it.

[CrimeDog]

that board is supposed to have 4v vdimm so vx or bh5 would be a great choice. I'd say mushkin bh5 because it's the best bh5 and you should hit 260mhz pretty easily 222

[Torin]

BH-5 will not hit 260 in 2x512mb....

[CrimeDog]

if i have hit over 260 with a gig on nforce2 and 3.3v i'm pretty sure it's possible with on-die controller and more volts...

[Torin]

Show me a pic of 260 2x512mb on nf2...

[CrimeDog]

i have lost pics because of unexpected reformats, but it was dfi infinity, i ran 10.5x255 24/7 and up to 264mhz for benching.
Here's 3dmark with one 512 stick.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7654338
says 255 because i booted with that then used clockgen to raise to 260. could do sandra up to 264 before board maxed out.
I ran a gig stable at 10.5x255 folding for half a year.
why don't you post what you know about instead of speculating?

[Torin]

Still doesn't show me anything.. you could very well be using a divider. I speculate based on hundreds of people not getting anywhere near 260 2-2-2 with 2x512mb BH-5, especially with only 3.3V.

Edit: Also, that is only 1x512MB. Huge difference between that and 2x512MB.

[CrimeDog]

whatever. you can decide based on someone who's never touched the ram or someone who has gone through about 10 gigs of it.

[Torin]

Still haven't shown any proof of hitting 260 2-2-2 on 2x512mb. You'd think with as much experience as you say you have with BH-5, you'd have at least one screenshot of it.

And I doubt this guy plans on going through "10 gigs of it" to be able to do what he could on 1 gig of VX.

[amilian]

In my experience, it is a challenge to keep the 512 mushkin BH5 sticks cool to be stable at over 250fsb 2-2-2-5. But despite that, the chances are not good to get 2x512 over 230 or so, whereas the chances of hitting 290fsb 2.5-3-3-8 with 2.85v of TCCD are VERY good. I think NUBE, and most people for that matter, would be far better off going with TCCD over BH5. In fact, this is what I'm doing shortly....giving up this BH5 for TCCD. And when I want 1GB I'll switch to OCZ VX and pump up the vdimm, since many respected OCers here, including OPP says it's the best for high fsb with that amount of ram. I really think BH5 is history with all but a few people.

[conrad.maranan]

I, too, have never seen anyone hit 260MHz with 2-2-2 timings using 2x512MB modules of BH-5.

Back on topic, I think Nube would have a much greater chance of hitting higher memory frequencies using the VX modules.

[Torin]

I, too, have never seen anyone hit 260MHz with 2-2-2 timings using 2x512MB modules of BH-5.
On nf2 of all chipsets.

[conrad.maranan]

Well, it's not for me to decide if someone is being less than truthful with regard to the subject matter. I've just never heard or seen anyone doing that well with a gig of BH-5. On the other hand, we can take note of almost everyone else hitting at least 250MHz with a gig of VX.

[CrimeDog]

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37910
keep in mind this is back when we only had nforce2 and intel both of which were very harsh on bh5. the a64's are much more gentle, and don't have problems with dual sided sticks. that's a huge advantage.
here's bench of my corsair single channel:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9634
but i never uploaded my gig because that was when EB/hynix got huge and bh5 was discontinued.

keep in mind that hardcore overclockers are using 256 sticks so the 512 don't get abused as much (who wants to see the everyday rigs?)

obviously it's not common for bh5 gigs to do 260+ but it's very doable with a good set (mushkin usually are)

[conrad.maranan]

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37910
keep in mind this is back when we only had nforce2 and intel both of which were very harsh on bh5. the a64's are much more gentle, and don't have problems with dual sided sticks. that's a huge advantage.
There are two things I noticed in that thread: Your personal statement of benching 264MHz 2-2-2 in dual channel and megahurtz-oc running 250MHz 2-2-2 in dual channel on a daily basis.


here's bench of my corsair single channel:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9634
but i never uploaded my gig because that was when EB/hynix got huge and bh5 was discontinued.
I think Nube would be interested in seeing 2x512MB, but we already know that you never uploaded a screenshot, which is fine.


keep in mind that hardcore overclockers are using 256 sticks so the 512 don't get abused as much (who wants to see the everyday rigs?)
With all of the posts and threads concerning stability, I'm pretty sure there are still a good number of us that want to see everyday rigs. Not everyone has the resources available to keep and maintain a dedicated benching system. ;)


obviously it's not common for bh5 gigs to do 260+ but it's very doable with a good set (mushkin usually are)
With that said, I think VX would be a safer gamble.

Cheers!
:toast:

[blander]

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37910
keep in mind this is back when we only had nforce2 and intel both of which were very harsh on bh5. the a64's are much more gentle, and don't have problems with dual sided sticks. that's a huge advantage.
here's bench of my corsair single channel:
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=9634
but i never uploaded my gig because that was when EB/hynix got huge and bh5 was discontinued.

keep in mind that hardcore overclockers are using 256 sticks so the 512 don't get abused as much (who wants to see the everyday rigs?)

obviously it's not common for bh5 gigs to do 260+ but it's very doable with a good set (mushkin usually are)

i have postet the screens many times

2x512mb corsair xms3200c2 v1.1 (bh-6)
http://www.pc-tweaker.ch/Pictures/Corsair266@2-2-2-5.JPG

2x512mb mushkin pc3500 level2 (bh-5)
http://www.pc-tweaker.ch/Pictures/275@2-2-2-5.JPG

[CrimeDog]

With that said, I think VX would be a safer gamble.

Cheers!
:toast:

you're right and i know that, i guess it didn't come off in what i'm saying :(
i'm probably upgrading to 939 nf3 agp dfi when it comes out so i'll get my screenies then but until then I'll shut up!
can't go wrong with either ram, i'd probably go with proven overclockers or just what's cheaper. have fun

edit: blander's screenies are what i'd expect from good bh5. curious what volts though

[conrad.maranan]

edit: blander's screenies are what i'd expect from good bh5. curious what volts though
blander's screens were BH-6, if you want to get technical. ;)

On a side note, if we're going to talk about prices...there's always TwinMOS. Check out what trans am has been able to do in that respective thread. When he receives his 2x512MB kit and posts up results, it should be pretty interesting. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[CrimeDog]

blander's screens were BH-6, if you want to get technical. ;)


the second one (10mhz higher) is bh5 ;)

[conrad.maranan]

Oops. I didn't see that one. It was just a red x earlier. :confused: That second screenshot sure is a beauty, though.

[blander]

the second one (10mhz higher) is bh5 ;)

yes second is mushkin bh-5

[Jeager]

But not in dual ;)

[skate2snow]

blander's screens were BH-6, if you want to get technical. ;)
First of all, the more technical is to check everything(which you didnt), And Second, don't try to put down people that way(number1 was just an exemple;) :) ). And third, you could probably call BH5 and BH6 the same name...

And BH5's WILL do over 260MHz in about 40% of the times, and do over 250MHz another 40% of the times...(2x512)...

[hollywood]

I, too, have never seen anyone hit 260MHz with 2-2-2 timings using 2x512MB modules of BH-5.

Back on topic, I think Nube would have a much greater chance of hitting higher memory frequencies using the VX modules.


Word...VX or TCCD.

[skate2snow]

Higher speed.... TCCD... but better performance, VX....

[KaEL]

Hi.. im gonna build a new system soon..

AMD 64 3500 winchester
DFI NF4 ultra
ATi x850XT PE
2x 74gig raptors raid 0

Im planing to overclock my cpu to around 2600mhz~ on a good HSF

Should I get 2*512mb Mushkin pc3500 lvl2 bh-5 memory
or 1gig OCZ VX memory ?

would 1gig bh-5 overclock to 250~ with 2-2-2 timings like VX or only like 233

If you like benching and you don't care have extra heat on your system (case closed), OCZ VX is your best choice.

But if you like more to play, have some OCing potential (higher clock speeds) TCCD is your best choice.

BH-5's 2x512MB doesnt like to the A64's memory controller.

IMHO.

Regards,

KaEL

[jjcom]

Go after some OCZ VX, about 250mhz 2-2-2 timings will be nice

jjcom

[conrad.maranan]

First of all, the more technical is to check everything(which you didnt), And Second, don't try to put down people that way(number1 was just an exemple;) :) ). And third, you could probably call BH5 and BH6 the same name...

And BH5's WILL do over 260MHz in about 40% of the times, and do over 250MHz another 40% of the times...(2x512)...
Strange. I don't ever recall trying to put anyone down. I looked back at what I have posted and noted no such behavior. Not even you know who gets a flaming response from me.

At any rate, if I have ever offended anyone, I apologize. It's never my intention. ;)

[iboomalot]

get the VX

not saying BH5 can't hit 260 but testing 10 gigs of BH5 to get those primo sticks isn't what I would what to do especially since BH5 isn't in production.

good luck with your system

[Revv23]

get a gig of twinmos speedpremium 3200 :)

:p: id either get that or VX for 2x512, of course BH-5 may do it but who knows...

[Lastviking]

Still haven't shown any proof of hitting 260 2-2-2 on 2x512mb. You'd think with as much experience as you say you have with BH-5, you'd have at least one screenshot of it.

And I doubt this guy plans on going through "10 gigs of it" to be able to do what he could on 1 gig of VX.


:p:


http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload4/283mhzsisoft1gb.jpg

highest 2x512mb bh5?

[computersmsa]

OCZ VX = Winbond UTT
You can find this chip in Kingston Value PC3200 and Twinmos PC3200/Mtec for ~ 150$/Gb :toast:

[iddqd]

that board is supposed to have 4v vdimm so vx or bh5 would be a great choice. I'd say mushkin bh5 because it's the best bh5 and you should hit 260mhz pretty easily 222
I say OCZ BH-5 is better. Almost impossible to find, though.

[Revv23]

^ uhh i kinda feel like Bh-5 is BH-5 when you get to that high quality

even though your pair seems pretty amazing.

[spaceman]

:p:


http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload4/283mhzsisoft1gb.jpg

highest 2x512mb bh5?
:worship: :cool: I haven't used any of the newer RAM yet. Since I got my 2x512s of Mushky Level 2, I haven't been all that tempted, either. Nothing beats those nice tight timings. :D

[Revv23]

man, thats really impressive for an Nforce2.
if only it could do it with CPC on.

[Lastviking]

man, thats really impressive for an Nforce2.
if only it could do it with CPC on.

Yeah it´s sad, they do about 260 with cpc on

[WiCKeD]

man, thats really impressive for an Nforce2.
if only it could do it with CPC on....or stable. :rolleyes: People like to lie alot about their overclocks on here. Highest 1GB kit of BH-5 I have known to run stable hit 252fsb, and the person went through many sticks to find two that would.

I'd personally go with TCCD. Guaranteed to hit a high fsb and most of the newer stuff does well with juice also, maybe as well as the voltmasters do.

[CrimeDog]

wow, what an ass. keep in mind that nforce2 has massive problems with cpc (1t) and double sided ram, which is overcome with a64's ondie controllers.

[Revv23]

but still just getting to 260/283 on an nforce2 with 2x512 is a huge achievement.

[WiCKeD]

wow, what an ass. keep in mind that nforce2 has massive problems with cpc (1t) and double sided ram, which is overcome with a64's ondie controllers.Grow up, kid. LastViking has admitted to not running anything stable. Don't call names, because you don't like the truth.

[kryptobs2000]

I don't see why no one thinks you can run 2x512 with bh5 @ 250mhz+ I can run mine at 240mhz 2-2-2 1t with only 3.2 volts. I don't know how high it will go because my dfi's sata bus won't lock. I can post at up to 275mhz w/3.3v and I'm memtest stable at around 255mhz. I have a stick of muskin and a stick of hyperx. Didn't go through a lot to find them, maybe I just got lucky? I thought it was average for bh5 to do 250mhz. with about 3.3v

[CrimeDog]

benchable at 283mhz, usually stable speed isn't much over benchable speed (10-15mhz max.) did you have a bad experience with bh5 or just couldn't get any?

[Revv23]

Grow up, kid. LastViking has admitted to not running anything stable. Don't call names, because you don't like the truth.


i think his point was that the NF2 was the limit not the RAM...

[WeakSauce]

Well here's 265x10 with 2x512 mushkin 3500 lvl II. This is prime stable too. So whoever says 2x512 bh-5 can't hit 260 is a little off. Although TCCD is a better choice for higher clocks.

[derprof]

is it possible that vx runs 260 2-2-2-x and a divider that the cpu runs @ maybe 10*300

[bachus_anonym]

is it possible that vx runs 260 2-2-2-x and a divider that the cpu runs @ maybe 10*300
on A64 platform, 300HTTx10=3000Mhz; divider166 then mems will be @ DDR500 (250), divider183 - mems at DDR540ish (270ish).... BUT....

VX + Neo2 = forget about divider166 above 270HTT --> no POST :( at least with 2x512MB Dual Channel... also divider183 doesn't work above 250ishHTT

[amilian]

Well here's 265x10 with 2x512 mushkin 3500 lvl II. This is prime stable too. So whoever says 2x512 bh-5 can't hit 260 is a little off. Although TCCD is a better choice for higher clocks.
That ain't 1T, that's for sure :D
edit: just looked again and it's single channel.....so sry, maybe it is....

[Revv23]

^its still two sticks, which is a nice Oc indeed.

[Torin]

Well, by no means is 2x512mb doing 260+ the rule, rather it is definitely the exception. To address the initial question posed, VX is definitely more likely to do this.

[Revv23]

im curious to see how my 2x512 will do once i get some more volts too it, it was really limited on my NF2 but each stick did 255 by itself with 3.3v...

[ZL1]

Well here's 265x10 with 2x512 mushkin 3500 lvl II. This is prime stable too. So whoever says 2x512 bh-5 can't hit 260 is a little off. Although TCCD is a better choice for higher clocks.

nice results weaksauce !

by the way what skin is that on your xp ?



Thanks
Dan

[WeakSauce]

[QUOTE=ZL1]nice results weaksauce !

by the way what skin is that on your xp ?


Thanks. The skin is with a program called style xp. The actual skin is a firefox skin which is pretty cool. Go to www.themexp.org to download the program and all skins, wallpaper, icons, bootscreens, etc.

[amilian]

Hey weaksauce,
that screeny says single channel, but you said 2x512. What's up with that? Did you mean to run them in single channel? Can you do it dual?
THnx

[Wingless]

Hi.. im gonna build a new system soon..

AMD 64 3500 winchester
DFI NF4 ultra
ATi x850XT PE
2x 74gig raptors raid 0

Im planing to overclock my cpu to around 2600mhz~ on a good HSF

Should I get 2*512mb Mushkin pc3500 lvl2 bh-5 memory
or 1gig OCZ VX memory ?

would 1gig bh-5 overclock to 250~ with 2-2-2 timings like VX or only like 233
MAn with 250 Htt it is like 250*11=2750Mhz CPu...Man.. i wanna see u doing that with good HSF...If u manage to do that iam getting 3500 straight away!!!
What is ur system 4? If its 4 games then get a TCCD...higher clocks and Sauce said...

[Holst]

I think the TCCD is a better bet than the Bh5.

[Revv23]

im gonna disagree :)

[kryptobs2000]

bh5 > vx > tccd

[Mrki]

Kingston 2x512 BH-5 PC3500 3.15VDimm

http://mitglied.lycos.de/siedl/10x248_Kingston_bh-5_1024MB_2_2_2_6_37sekpi.jpg

[CrimeDog]

one thing i'd like to know, is how hot do the VX chips get compared with bh5? when bh5 was popular a lot of people were afraid to run 3.3v through them. with vx that seems like the minimum. are they cooler, or do we just not care anymore?

[Revv23]

well it took us a while to figure out that BH-5 could take 3.6 24/7 and not die, with VX, OCZ pretty much promotes the use of 3.4v, i think the warranty is effective up unitl 3.5v, so there is much less worries about killing the ram.

[meke]

I own both TCCD and BH5.
GSkill F1-LA, Vitesta DDR600, Patriot 3200 LL BH5, Muskin 3500 L2 BH5.

TCCD's run better at high fsb's with acceptable timings like;
@3.3V Vitesta's make dual 300 fsb 1:1 2,5-3-3-5
and it goes like 350+ fsb 1:1 3-4-4-8

BH5's are 2x512 sticks,
Patriot doesn't pass 255 fsb, but stable at 250 fsb 1:1 2-2-2-5
Muskins pass 255 fsb, I will try around 3.5+V to see the limit.

But I can easily say that;

TCCD or any other chip cannot beat BH5 at the same fsb with the same latency
I am not an expert on ram but as far as my experience on benchmark scores,

the same fsb and divider and latency match winner is always bh5.

Although I am using an intel system and don't have the chance like A64 ram tweaker, I believe that the difference depends on the other hidden latency values of the ram that I cannot control from an Intel system.

[ZL1]

I own both TCCD and BH5.
GSkill F1-LA, Vitesta DDR600, Patriot 3200 LL BH5, Muskin 3500 L2 BH5.

TCCD's run better at high fsb's with acceptable timings like;
@3.3V Vitesta's make dual 300 fsb 1:1 2,5-3-3-5
and it goes like 350+ fsb 1:1 3-4-4-8

BH5's are 2x512 sticks,
Patriot doesn't pass 255 fsb, but stable at 250 fsb 1:1 2-2-2-5
Muskins pass 255 fsb, I will try around 3.5+V to see the limit.

But I can easily say that;

TCCD or any other chip cannot beat BH5 at the same fsb with the same latency
I am not an expert on ram but as far as my experience on benchmark scores,

the same fsb and divider and latency match winner is always bh5.

Although I am using an intel system and don't have the chance like A64 ram tweaker, I believe that the difference depends on the other hidden latency values of the ram that I cannot control from an Intel system.

how about 1:1 vs divider ?
Im trying to decide on this right now
tccd 1:1 or bh5 5:4

Thanks
Dan

[Nube]

MAn with 250 Htt it is like 250*11=2750Mhz CPu...Man.. i wanna see u doing that with good HSF...If u manage to do that iam getting 3500 straight away!!!
What is ur system 4? If its 4 games then get a TCCD...higher clocks and Sauce said...
i have XP120 HSF, 22c idle, 38 load

I put the CPU multi to 10* rather than 250

but yeh, I had to RMA because i had a bad stick :( been waiting over a week easy... might just do it like 240*11 with the sickest timings and only 3.2v -3.3v or so

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:D In my opinion it's always a good idea to keep some older RAM - the time comes You'll need it again, just like it's now with the BH-5.

So I'm happy to have two kits, CORSAIR & MUSHKIN and also owning two kits of TCCD (G.SKILL & A-DATA) which also has been discontinued by now.

The future will bring a lot of improvements like dual cores, new FX-55, FX-57, 0,09 without subzero problems, new chipsets like ATI and god only knows what more so nobody can say definatly what RAM is to use in one year and the past has shown the "new" RAM is not always "best" RAM.

So go for BH-5, catch a use pair for a small price, buy some TCCD and maybe some VX.

Discontinued RAM I always sold for more money than I've spend myself so there will be no risk.

I remember the time I sold a pair of used MUSHKIN LV II BH-5 2 x 256 MB for $310, was some weeks after BH-5 left the market........ :toast:

[meke]

how about 1:1 vs divider ?
Im trying to decide on this right now
tccd 1:1 or bh5 5:4

Thanks
Dan

As far as I see, divider doesn't make any difference on the "same fsb: same divider, same latency" formula.

then if you will use divider, it will make no difference and bh5 will win.

Edit: Let me give you an example;

My Spi 1 M score is:

238 fsb 1:1 2225 BH5 = 28 Sec
255 fsb 1:1 2.5335 TCCD = 28 Sec

You can see that even the fsb is higher, it makes no difference than the latency issue. :slobber:

[meke]

The future will bring a lot of improvements like dual cores, new FX-55, FX-57, 0,09 without subzero problems, new chipsets like ATI and god only knows what more so nobody can say definatly what RAM is to use in one year and the past has shown the "new" RAM is not always "best" RAM.



You are right, but after some time, I feel myself like a jewelery shop owner, which replaces gold with TCCD and diamond with winbonds.

I believe chip makers will try dual core with normal fsb's like 166 to 250, then our jewels will make some rating again.

After that, DDR2 or another tech. will come and stay.

Look at the A64's, with the HTT option, even the TCCD's can hardly reach their 1:1 fsb requirements, AMD will jump to DDR2 with the new memory controller.

[funkflix]

Just put in my DFI a few hours ago and thats an quick result. :D

Only 3,6V !!
http://www.weber-steuerungstechnik.de/felix/dfibh53.jpg

[ZL1]

As far as I see, divider doesn't make any difference on the "same fsb: same divider, same latency" formula.

then if you will use divider, it will make no difference and bh5 will win.

Edit: Let me give you an example;

My Spi 1 M score is:

238 fsb 1:1 2225 BH5 = 28 Sec
255 fsb 1:1 2.5335 TCCD = 28 Sec

You can see that even the fsb is higher, it makes no difference than the latency issue. :slobber:

thing is I heard 1:1 is more stable, gives better oc results and so on
also Im in the 275 range, where mhz does win over cl and to get bh5 to that mhz Id need way too many volts

Thanks
Dan

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

You are right, but after some time, I feel myself like a jewelery shop owner, which replaces gold with TCCD and diamond with winbonds.

I believe chip makers will try dual core with normal fsb's like 166 to 250, then our jewels will make some rating again.

After that, DDR2 or another tech. will come and stay.

Look at the A64's, with the HTT option, even the TCCD's can hardly reach their 1:1 fsb requirements, AMD will jump to DDR2 with the new memory controller .

:D I really do hope so:

http://img159.exs.cx/img159/8340/wr9eb.png

:toast:

[meke]

:D I really do hope so:

http://img159.exs.cx/img159/8340/wr9eb.png

:toast:


OMG,

is that, is that, is is that fsb fake? :slobber:

[Umek]

for my this is a fake :stick:

[nebuchanezzar]

with DDR2 we may see screens like that before too terribly long but today, yes obviously a gag

[jjcom]

The FSB isn't a gag...just there's no real use for it...yet

jjcom

[kouch]

yeah A64 need low latency much more than they do more bandwidth. There is more than enough bandwidth anyhow as it is.

[kryptobs2000]

I would say that htt is real, but then I noticed it was a winchester rofl what a joke

[jjcom]

I found a shot on the CPU-Z validation forum thing, so it should be real. besides hasn't a few others gone and gotten HTT like that? Didn't OPB or someone?

jjcom