Not sure where to ask this, is it possible to...

[impulse]

Convert a regular home refridgerator into a phase changing setup. I know alot of you guys here use phase change cooling and was hoping for a little insight. I recently bought a townhouse where the person who previously owned it bought a new fridge, and put the old one(6 yrs old) down in the basement. I dont use it for anything in fact its unplugged. I was wondering if it was possible to gut it and use it for a water chiller or some kind of setup. My setup is the swiftech MCW462-UHT 226 pelt with a velocity T-3 700 GPH pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/a_pu_csl.asp?CartId=%3C%25=CartID%25) and a innovatek tank-o-matic res. As you can see im new to this forum have been trolling for a couple weeks now and am just amazed at the extremeness you guys go to...and i wanted to join. I apologize if this isnt the place for this but I couldnt think of a better place to ask, as you all seem to know a great deal about phase change. Thanks in advance

edit* have a black ice extreme rad 120mm fan
Srry im truly a moron i didnt scroll down low enough to see the vapor change forum. srry and thanks for moving it

[QuadDamage]

Welcome to the forums:)

Since i'm not an expert in building VPC units, i'd suggest you reading some guides in "VPC forums" i used compressor ripped from A/C Unit to make mine.

[impulse]

thx, im gonna go do some reading now. :) give me a couple weeks and ill be passing up dd. :O jk

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Impulse.. It seems that my fear has come true.. People are starting to think of "Phase Change" cooling as something different than "refrigeration". Refrigeration IS phase change cooling.. Infact, anything that takes a liquid, gas, or a solid and changes it to one of other said states is phase change.

So just the change from liquid to vapor is a phase change. In refrigeration, freon changes from a liquid to a gas to create the cooling power. The liquid aborbs heat and once each molecule takes up as much heat as it can hold.. it changes from liquid to gas.. just like when you boil water.. the water molecules take up as much heat as they can handle and they vaporize.. or steam off into the air.. releasing their energy.. condensing on another surface which is cooler.

So.. to answer your question.. YES you can gut the fridge and use the compressor in a refrigeration cooling unit for your PC :).

That is all you want is the compressor.. the dryer/filter on them things aren't good after you open the system.. they can't absorbs much moisture in the first place.

So take out the compressor.. is this a full size fridge.. as in a fridge/freezer combo..?

If so .. you are set! I'd recommend going direct die for the first time around as it's easiest to build.

[impulse]

I apologize if i worded my post wrong. I know what phase change cooling is. I understand the process, what i didnt understand and what i still dont is how to use the actual refridgeration unit to cool the processor. What i meant to ask i guess is, what do i do the the actual refridgeration unit to be able to apply it to my core. Im sure most refridgerators dont come with a socket 478 adapter :) Im just cluless as to how to make the unit into a cooler. Yes it is a full size fridge with freezer. Thanks for the help punisher any guides on how to make a direct die block?

added*

Originally posted by FUGGER
Parts list

blow torch w/ flux and solder $20.00
Half dozen 1/4" ID sleeves $2.00
Tube cutter with bur removal and reflare after cut. $4.95
50' of 1/4" soft copper tube $14.00
4' of cap tube from the compressor $4.95
35' of steel tube for condensor came with compressor
R-134A recharge kit from auto parts store $10.00 w/R-134A
2 shreader valves (1 spare) .95

Home depot prices

I am reworking a copper waterblock into a evaporator
I have access to evac and relaim system for freon.
I will have my HVAC cert next week. "mini" test required to get freon in larger quantity.
The condensor will be switched to a radiator type rather than 1/4" tube.
I have some seriously kick ass fans in ATM for 19" rack mount frames that I will use to cool the condensor.

And now comes the pictures, 56K warning

Gonna throw in pics of "toys" too so please install drool bib now.

Is it something like this that i should be attempting?

[aenigma]

Revised list:

Blow torch(I recomend JTH7) and brazing rods.No flux and no basic solder.

No 1/4 sleeves.

Tube cutter, flaring tool and an expander/sweller/swager etc..If you can't get an expander, then you can use copper sleeves, but an expander is much better.(For example it expands 1/4 pipe so you can fit another 1/4 pipe to join them)

You don't exactly need 50 feet of 1/4 pipe, but if you want to have more than enough you might as well get 50 feet :)

Cap tube you can order from Rparts.

No steel tubing...

NO 134!Find something else, and if you can't then use propane.

You can get schrader valves from rparts.com also.But you want at least 2, 1 low side and 1 high side.I get them in a 5 pack with 5/16 pipe and not the 1/4 they have.

[|PuNiSh3R|]

yea.. get the JTH7 torch at Home Depot or wherever.. it's from Bernz-o-matic.. GREAT torch.. use MAPP gas.. You need to get a waterblock and braze it closed.. it must have a copper top on it.

I wouldn't buy from RPARTS.. I am sure you have lots of local HVAC supply houses.. just go in and buy your stuff their.. say you are with the local community college (if you have one) and you are a refrigeration student.. they will sell to you for a decent price. I pick up 3 schrader valves for 3 dollars.. I get them with out the pre-soldered tube.

Definitly braze!

And who the hell wrote up that original part list?!

The compressor puts the vapor form hot refrigerant gas into the condenser.. the condenser cools the hot gas into a high pressure liquid.. the high pressure liquid leaves the condenser and goes through the cap tube which adds resistants to the high pressure liquid freon.. the compressor is pulling a suction on the evaporator side.. so when the high pressure liquid leaves the cap tube it's entering into a low pressure zone.. this causes the liquid refrigerant to rapidly expand and aborbs heat turning back into a gas and going back to the compressor.

Get a condenser.. and a waterblock.. seal the waterblock up put your 1/4" flare fittings in it.. put the cap tube in the inlet of the block.. and the suction line on the outlet of the block.. put the discharge line of the compressor going into the top of the condenser.. It can't get any simplier.. You are going to need refrigeration gauges and manifold along with the hoses.. a vacuum pump is pretty much 100% needed.. unless you use a way over-sized dryer/filter and another compressor to act as the vacuum pump.. but you won't get moisture out of the system that way. you need a good 2-stage pump to fully remove moisture..

[aenigma]

Well you dont NEED a vacuum pump, they help alot.But you can get by without one by being creative with valves.You can still remove the moisture from the system by heating the lines and either using a home made vacuum pump, or the compressor itself....

If you do have a refrigeration shop, might as well check it out.That is where I get my schrader valves, but not my capillary.So far I have only got capillary a strainer and a dryer from rparts....

Oh yeah, you can use the o-ring on the block.I have used a maze3 with a copper top I made and an o-ring and it holds.But when the block is cold, if it equalizes fast(open low side and high side gauges) it may leak.
Brazing is the way to go, but an o-ring will work....
But it only leaked on my 2 stage split, on an average single compressor system it would probably work fine.

[impulse]

Thanks alot for the information guys, it seems as tho it is a pretty big project. Im gonna start ripping this thing apart tonight. Ill try and keep ya posted on how its going. Is it possible that this unit will fit into a case(server) i was thinking of buying that new Lian-Li PC-7323 Server case (http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/Lian_Li_PC-7323/). its a pretty big case and i wanted to buy a prommy to throw in there but if i can save the money and have the satisfaction of making my own sub 0 cooling id rather do that. Howerver, I dont really want a big ugly condensor sitting next to my desk in my loft. If worse comes to worse i can just make a small container for it. is it possible i could make it fit into a case?

[Tweaked!]

You should'nt need any cap tubes as long as you use a piston rated for the right output, and locate it just before the block

[aenigma]

Originally posted by Tweaked!
You should'nt need any cap tubes as long as you use a piston rated for the right output, and locate it just before the block

I'm not on my computer now, so I don't have my refrigeration basics links...Check out how refrigerators work at howstuffworks.com

You need capillary(metering device), no if's and's or but's about it :)
The capillary meters the liquid refrigerant into the evaporator, keeps high side pressure high enough to condense the vapor into a liquid, and low side low enough to allow the refrigerant to boil.
Without it you would just have a closed loop system pumping gas.


impusle:
Yes you can definately make a system in that case.I have made one in a little generic case.You won't have a big ugly condenser sitting next to it.You can put it on the side of it :p

If you want to do it yourself, then get a condenser from an a/c unit and cut it downto size and braze the 180 fittings back in place.You can also make a watercooled condenser, or even buy a condenser.

[Tweaked!]

Originally posted by aenigma
I'm not on my computer now, so I don't have my refrigeration basics links...Check out how refrigerators work at howstuffworks.com

You need capillary(metering device), no if's and's or but's about it :)
The capillary meters the liquid refrigerant into the evaporator, keeps high side pressure high enough to condense the vapor into a liquid, and low side low enough to allow the refrigerant to boil.
Without it you would just have a closed loop system pumping gas.


That's what a piston is for. it's a more precise way of metering the flow. Either way would work, but brazing those cap tubes can be difficult for the brazing newb

[dmitriyaz]

impulse :)
welcome to the forums.
just thought i'd tell you,
the biggest amount of information on the subject (cooling computer components with phase change) all in one place is www.phase-change.com
especially the forums,
be sure to check that out before you start :toast:

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Brazing the cap tube is hard? Um.. not really.. You just put the tube into the 1/4" tube and then crimp it down to tightly hold the cap tube.. then heat that area and put the brazing rod there.. how hard could that be.. even for the newb.. brazing is exactly like soldering.. just at a higher temp and no need for flux when working with copper.

[aenigma]

Exactly, brazing is very easy.And if you have a good torch it goes alot smoother than soldering.

What your thinking of is a TXV, which would be a bad idea for direct die.

[impulse]

Just wanted to say thanks to you guys for taking your time out to help a self admitted newb to phase change. I'm trying to grasp all the information here. Let me try and clear something, try to put it in lamens terms for myself. In the past few posts you are talking about brazing a cap tube. Is this the part of the setup that will attach to the cpu? IE the line that is ran from the condensor(?) to the die on the cpu? i think that i am wrong in the assumption that the condensor is with the refridgeration unit already. I have to get a condensor from another appliance ie air conditioning unit? In other words i dont have everything i need for the setup alone in the refridgerator? sorry if i sound like a complete moron, i am. thx again fellas, and i didnt get a chance to get at the fridge my girl came over...you know how that goes

[aenigma]

Well the refrigerator already has a condenser, but they are big ugly steel things.You could use it if you want...The refrigerator has everything except for the evaporator.But it would be much better to get new capillary and maybe make your own condenser, or just buy one.

As for the capillary, yes it is the part that exits the condenser.It carries the liquid to the block and then returns through the suction line.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/refrigerator.htm

[|PuNiSh3R|]

well a condenser from a refrigerator wouldn't work worth §§§§ for this type of heatload.. you would need fans on it.. it would take up your wall.. lol.. I mean.. no fins.. etc..

Btw, Impulse.. I highly recommend using a Sporlan type dryer.. I believe model number C-32.. I will confirm tomorrow. They are good dryer/filters.. and a site glass (moisture indicator) is always a nice addition to the system.. Has helped me diagnose problems on my current phase change systems.. also lets you know if you still have moisture in your system.. moisture = bbbaaaddd.. in my case.. it let to blockage of the cap tube.. which stopped freon flow.. which = rising CPU temps.

Even after 5 hours of vacuuming with my 2-stage 5CFM vacuum pump AND heating the copper lines with my torch while the system was vacuuming.. the moisture was still there.. The moisture indicator said so..

Although probably because of my dryer being full of moisture.. once I put in a new dryer and vacuumed the system for a few minutes the site glass indicator changed to Dry.. and the cap tube block stopped..

[impulse]

ahhhh, now im starting to grasp what needs to be modified in order to make the fridge into a cooling device. I was confused when told to get a compressor because I thougt that it already had one(which apparently it does). I just need a different one. its all becomming clear now, its not gonna be easy. :) i think its within my ability tho, especially with the help of a friend who's good with anything mechanical. oh and btw what the f*** are these two smiley faces doing, they freak me out whenever i go to post :stick:

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Why.. They are jerking!

You just need a different compressor? Why? You are taking the one out of the refrigerator.. maybe I'm lost somewhere.. but I think you is a bit confused again?

[impulse]

sorry, meant condensor :p wtf is jerking lol

[aenigma]

Originally posted by impulse
sorry, meant condensor :p wtf is jerking lol
Choking the chicken, cleaning the pipes..Ok back on subject here.

punisher:
I think I know what condensers your talking about, the ones that take up the whole fridge right?I was thinking more along the lines of those 4-5 row steel condensers with steel rods for find.They don't work very good to say the least, but at least they don't take up a wall! :stick: :D

[|PuNiSh3R|]

I was talking about those.. the ones that go on the back of the fridge and have the rods going vertical across it.. Then you have the kind that are built in the walls of the fridge or freezer that go around the whole unit.

[aenigma]

Yeah thats what I thought, I was thinking of the condensers underneath the freezer/refrigerator.They are also garbage, but they should work....

[|PuNiSh3R|]

"should" work.. heh

Aenigma, you know any sites that I can convert tempurature (C, F) to BTU or watts? I am trying to find some way to simulate 150w on my evap block.. Also I took one of my digital temp probes from radio shack n un-soldered the temp probe and put a digi doc probe in it's place.. but the damn digital display always reads at 125F.. it goes up and down a bit.. but it isn't reading at the correct temp.. it's 75F to high...

[dmitriyaz]

punisher,
temperature can not be converted to energy.
its like converting time to speed--
they do depend on one another,
but there are other factors that determine one given the other.

[impulse]

Originally posted by |PuNiSh3R|


Btw, Impulse.. I highly recommend using a Sporlan type dryer.. I believe model number C-32.. I will confirm tomorrow. They are good dryer/filters.. and a site glass (moisture indicator) is always a nice addition to the system.. Has helped me diagnose problems on my current phase change systems.. also lets you know if you still have moisture in your system.. moisture = bbbaaaddd.. in my case.. it let to blockage of the cap tube.. which stopped freon flow.. which = rising CPU temps.

Even after 5 hours of vacuuming with my 2-stage 5CFM vacuum pump AND heating the copper lines with my torch while the system was vacuuming.. the moisture was still there.. The moisture indicator said so..


thx for clearing that up pun, can you recommend a retailer that may carry this item? or shoudl i check local resellers of HVAC stuffs. Also do you have a ballpark price of one of these units? im still sorting out my funds after owning my house for 6 months money is a little tight.

[|PuNiSh3R|]

Go to a local shop.. and do what I told you.. with the local college thing..

Anyway.. I pay 8 dollars for a sporlan dryer.. C-32 model.. almost 100% it's the C-32.. and I pay the same price for the site-glass.. I get 10' of .028 cap tube for 5 bux.. .. schrader valves 3 for 3 bux, 50' of copper tube for 10, 15% silver brazing rods, 28 for 35 bux or cheaper.. etc.. i buy a lot of stuff though.. so i go to 2 places i know .. i'm a frequent customer at these places.

[aenigma]

I also use a sporlan dryer, I got it from http://www.rparts.com

<edit>
Yeah if you have a local refrigeration place that is willing to sell to you and actually has what you want, go for it.