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MrIcee
10-30-2002, 12:04 PM
Hiya boys:)

Yep..you heard it right, Icee finally got his hands on a week 42 AIUCB 2400+ Rev B, albeit a borrowed chip until I get my own. I am awaiting the arrival of a KD7, so I flashed the bios of my old faithful KX7 and she booted up beautifully at 15x133Mhz. My first objective comes from the OPPAINTER school of overclocking....how high will she fly at stock volts...this is within an hour of removing it from the tray
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/XP2400%201.JPG
She's not looking too shabby:D

Randi:D

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 12:51 PM
Heres she is at 1.65v maxed out on Mhz...this is all she's got at 1.65v.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/XP2400%202.JPG
This is looking promising indeed...it's on to burning her in my friends:)

Randi:D

Wolf
10-30-2002, 12:52 PM
Don't hold us in suspense too long.:D I've been waiting for you to get one and max it out for a while.

mbrock
10-30-2002, 01:05 PM
I guess I am hoing to have to break down and buy a Prometeia. My ice water just is not keeping the thing cool enough. It is taking about 2.1 volts to get 2400mhz right now. Full load cpu temp in MBM is around 41C. Too hot and it melts my ice in no time. Can't wait to see your 3D scores once the 2400 is broke in.:toast:

PS of course if anyone out there has a spare Prometeia laying around that they want to donate.... I would not complain. LOL

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 01:27 PM
Marty my friend:)

Last year at this time I was experiencing what you are right now : My watercooler tho capable of freezing the water could not keep up when overclocking the XP1800+1900"s, even with a 156 watt pelt chiller inline to assist. Thats why I turned to phase change and looked for a suitable pre-existing, working cooling unit that could be converted. With the advent of the Prometeia, tho a bit expensive, they bring the goods:)

I'll have 3D as soon as I get a KD7 in my hands....I can't run my FSB yet up at 200Mhz because of the 15x multiplier....well....we'll see;) But I don't think it will be stable enough for 3DMark...LOL

mike.elmes:
keep me posted on that enhanced latency OCZ DDR....it looks to be pretty good stuff. I have a stick of their cas 2 PC3200 that runs right with my Corsair...they're putting out some good ram at this time:)

Randi:D

N8
10-30-2002, 01:45 PM
Looking good Randi!

go go go :)

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 02:05 PM
Ok....we're making progress up the scale....2300Mhz range was easy so I skipped it:p Burning in the 2400+ at it namesake..2400Mhz. It needed 1.92v at this point to sustain Prime95 indefinitely. I let it run for approximately 3 hours at these settings
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/XP2400Mhz%203.JPG
2400Mhz is no sweat for this girl...guess we need to take her up a notch ! :D

Randi:D

mike.elmes
10-30-2002, 03:03 PM
Thats right Randi.......BAM......


Kick it up a notch !!:toast: :toast:

Wolf
10-30-2002, 03:15 PM
Nice so far. I wonder if he will get it to 2600MHZ. :toast:

SKATAN
10-30-2002, 03:19 PM
MR Icee

Are you sure you are having good contact with the core ?

doesnt seem like it

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 03:29 PM
SKATAN:)

I believe I do as I've never had trouble before obtaining good contact, tomorrow I will take it apart and recheck my contact to the core. This CPU does run hot as the Mhz rise...but 11c under load isn't too bad under Prime at 2400Mhz.Ok....next up is Prime passed and ready at 2495Mhz

http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/XP2400%204.JPG

Whadaya think men?? Will she play in the 2500's...2600's???:D

Randi:D

Hardass
10-30-2002, 03:34 PM
Randi, That 11c temp is with the prom? I thought that equip would get alot colder temp then that!

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 03:43 PM
Hardass:)

It's idling in the -18c range but load temps are rising to 11c. This CPU runs hotter than my previous 2200+, especially after I surpassed the 2300Mhz plateau and raised the VCore to sustain Prime. That 11c screenshot was taken while running Prime and under load. SKATAN pointed out my core contact may not be optimum..so I'll be investigating that tomorrow:)

Randi:D

MuFf|n M@N
10-30-2002, 04:28 PM
WTG!!! Looks like a nice chip there :D :D Now really start fooling with it :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 04:39 PM
My belief is that these retail chips, as many have said, are not the "2400Mhz on air" chips we saw reviewed by any means. But as with the retail 2200's which didn't get a good rap when air cooled...my goal is to achieve at least 70% overclock as I have in the past with many AMD chips utilizing high performance cooling. I believe as they mature and the manufacturing process is refined that these puppies will replace the 1600+ as the econo clocker in a few months:)

Now I was asked, will he make 2500Mhz?? Why of course and run some Sandra benchmarks to compare against the 2.6B P4's
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/SandraCPU2510.JPG
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/SandraMultimedia2510.JPG

Heres a little memory bandwidth for your board cross comparisons...this running at 167Mhz maxed timings with Ultra CPU decode enabled
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/SandraMemory2510.JPG

We're gaining my friends...I'm running 1.98v VCore to sustain 2510Mhz on the KX7-333R. But just check out the incredible CPU and Multimedia benches...AMD still carries a nice punch in the gut !!:toast:

Randi:D

Jeff
10-30-2002, 04:44 PM
You really are fun to watch MrIcee. :toast: Very, very nice!

SKATAN
10-30-2002, 05:13 PM
a good 2400+ or a 2700+ will take us where we want to go :)


im aiming for 2.4ghz~2.5ghz on air (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzUwLDI=) even if I have to wait a while for good steppings

OPPAINTER
10-30-2002, 05:16 PM
Looking Good MrIcee:banana:
Keep it going my man :D

By the way look at this, you know what this is don't you;)

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 05:20 PM
My oh my OPPAINTER my friend:toast:

Why...thats a 2600+:D

Randi:D

OPPAINTER
10-30-2002, 05:36 PM
You know that :D

Heres some more stock voltage.

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 05:49 PM
Very nice my man...it looks like your chip has a little more headroom than mine:) Keep those results coming...looking like you might have a 2800Mhz chip there my friend:D

Randi:D

TheDude
10-30-2002, 06:01 PM
MrIcee,

I'm waiting to see how your KD7 does also. I'm dying to get my Prommy (in a few days),and am not sure which board to use with it. lately, I've been leaning towards my modded KX7 instead of my KD7. It's great to be able to see your results first!;)

Run for your lives..OPP has a 2600!:D

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 06:08 PM
TheDude:)

The only problem with the KX7 is that you only have the stock multiplier, 15x. I have no choice but to step up to the KD7 to gain access to the multipliers and be able to run at my normal 200Mhz+ FSB. I won't be using the native IDE controller nor the Highpoint. I will be using a Promise TX2 ATA133 IDE controller in a PCI slot, as the TX2 can handle 66Mhz PCI bus speeds. My theory in doing this is that I'll be able to explore FSB/Mem territory for benching that can't be achieved now without corrupting the drives. We'll see in due time:)

Randi:D

OPPAINTER
10-30-2002, 06:30 PM
Runs 3D solid at 2500 with 1.72 v. Can't do Prime, I'm sure it has something to do with the memory at 2.6v :D

This is a Iwill KK400 mobo by the way, V-mem only goes to 2.6V:rolleyes:

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 06:42 PM
OPP...guess I'll go check my evap contact...LOL

I ran 3Dmark at 2556Mhz but at 1.98v-2v to get there. Loving that 2600+ my man....heres a little 2600Mhz Lovin' from our friends at AMD...so far a 60% overclock on the 2400+...check out the numbers between a 2.6 AMD and 2.6 Intel:toast:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/SandraCPU2600.JPG
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/SandraMultimedia2600.JPG

Stay tuned folks, there's more to come from the OPP and Icee show:banana: :banana: :banana:

Randi:D

sysfailur
10-30-2002, 06:44 PM
MrIcee,

Don't be afraid to slap in like 2.2v--these chips can handle it. I did 2.08v on mine w/ aircooling and she ran fine--hot but fine.

I would actually want to go higher but I didn't have the ability to get the vcore higher than 2.22v. I'll give it another some other time.

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 06:53 PM
Sys:)

My board only has the pin 7 mod..so 2.15 is all it has to offer. With the addition of the KD7 I'll be able to extend my clocks a bit higher I hope....but I'm not doing too shabby at the moment:)

Randi:D

OPPAINTER
10-30-2002, 07:02 PM
Looking good Randi, Try some better contact, it may be worth a look. Could get you another 100Mhz if it's off a bit.

I'm at like 1.95 V-core now, got some AMD/IWill doing 2640 Mhz.

MrIcee
10-30-2002, 07:21 PM
OPP:)

What are the Vcore options on that board?? Hope you got enough juice left to take that puppy to it's limit;)
I'll match your last screenie with the 2400+ my man:banana:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/XP2400@2645.JPG

Keep up the great work OPP...looking like you have a gem of a chip there:D

Randi:D

QuadDamage
10-30-2002, 07:50 PM
dang!, very nice my friends! keep on clocking those chips as high as you can. i wish i had Prommy to to get more than weak 2.42ghz@1.7V....

bigdawginva
10-30-2002, 07:55 PM
Wow, good O/Cs. I guess I'm going to have to get a phase change setup to replace this Koolance in order to stay in the ballpark with you guys. However, I must admit I'm not surprised. I figured if I'm getting 2400mhz with a 1/4" line then you guys with phase change would probably get 2600-2700mhz.

dynetk
10-30-2002, 08:36 PM
Nice ocs, I can't wait till I get my hands on a prometeia and see if I can get the same results. My chip seems to be very similar in behavior to mricee's it loves voltages and runs hot. I have a very hard time keeping it cooled with my plain old water cooling need more cooling more voltage!

OPPAINTER
10-30-2002, 08:37 PM
Nice Clocks guys :)

MrIcee,

This mobo comes with up to 1.85 in the bios, I had to do a V-mod.
I should have plenty, I think:D

Heres some 2700 with 2.05V.

ABIT Marketing
10-30-2002, 09:27 PM
OMG 2700Mhz??? You need to come down to Fremont and teach me how to do it. :D

I will buy you a drink :toast:

OPPAINTER
10-30-2002, 09:33 PM
No problem, let me know when you get that new chip of your's,:D try and scoop on a couple while your at it;)

OPP

TheDude
10-30-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by MrIcee
TheDude:)

The only problem with the KX7 is that you only have the stock multiplier, 15x. I have no choice but to step up to the KD7 to gain access to the multipliers and be able to run at my normal 200Mhz+ FSB. I won't be using the native IDE controller nor the Highpoint. I will be using a Promise TX2 ATA133 IDE controller in a PCI slot, as the TX2 can handle 66Mhz PCI bus speeds. My theory in doing this is that I'll be able to explore FSB/Mem territory for benching that can't be achieved now without corrupting the drives. We'll see in due time:)

Randi:D

I see what you mean now! I didn't think I would see 16x and 2700 on this board!:D Should still get decent FSB @15x.
Looks like I will have to dig up another $300 when the prommy gets here! (depending on your results with the KD7)Expensive, but very exciting!

twiggy
10-30-2002, 09:42 PM
OPP,
what are the temps on that?

i wanna see that thing fold;)

OPPAINTER
10-30-2002, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by twiggy
OPP,
what are the temps on that?

i wanna see that thing fold;)

I can't get a temp reading, this is a Iwill mobo on a Abit OS :D MBM isn't reading anything correctly, I need to do a clean OS install for this thing to work better I think.

It should fold pretty good around the 2600Mhz district though:D

OPP

GreenBeret
10-30-2002, 09:50 PM
Nice OC, Opp and MrIcee, but you guys need to do something quick cos AMD's out of the 1st ORB page :p

QuadDamage
10-30-2002, 10:57 PM
my sorry a$$ air-cooling is holding me back. i will at least try to see whether a/c unit can help. it's at only 1.7V however.

http://home.attbi.com/~martinmaas/wpcpuid_2422mhz.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~martinmaas/2422_multimedia.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~martinmaas/10-5_220wpcpuid.jpg

i wanted to see what my old XMS3000 can do on KT400 mobo.

^^Gord^^
10-31-2002, 01:12 AM
Originally posted by MrIcee
The only problem with the KX7 is that you only have the stock multiplier, 15x. I have no choice but to step up to the KD7 to gain access to the multipliers and be able to run at my normal 200Mhz+ FSB.
[/B]

Can't you close the L3 bridge and then use the multipliers below 15? :confused:

Gord.

mackanz
10-31-2002, 01:29 AM
Some heavy amd oc has finally arrived!

MrIcee, on that KD7 and even on the raidcontroller, anything above 200 fsb is a nogo, it corrupts the hd like hell. I think it is because the KD7 has so much more aggressive memory timings than the KX7 has. Do you think that separate IDE card will help in that case? Even if the card can take 66mhz, the busmaster is still only 33mhz and the extra card is going through that. I might be wrong, but that is what i suspect.

Do you think you can try that card on the KX7 and see if you can gain more fsb stable?

Thanks and good luck,

mac

MrIcee
10-31-2002, 01:40 AM
Mack:)

I won't know until I get the controller card and KD7..but I'll be sure to keep everyone abreast:)OPP...looking mighty good my man:toast: Ok..Here's my final 2400+ screenshot until I get the KD7 ....some good ole 2400+ lovin'

http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/XP2400@2690.JPG

I'm off to work shortly...I'll be back later to see if I can eclipse the 2700Mhz plateau:D

Rani:D

Marci
10-31-2002, 03:32 AM
Nice one guys!


This is a Iwill KK400 mobo by the way, V-mem only goes to 2.6V

So ya got one then Opp... take it it's the KK400 and not the KK400+? Is it an improvement over the KD7 or about same? Noticed your screenies were all at fairly low FSBs... you know what I want... a board that'll let me have 220 FSB without knacking my HDDs...

DDTUNG
10-31-2002, 03:54 AM
Gentlemen, good to see you having so much fun. This is what ocing is all about.:)

Looks like I'll have to get me a Prometeia soon.:D

DDTUNG:cool:

JNav89GT
10-31-2002, 04:52 AM
Originally posted by MrIcee
Marty my friend:)

Last year at this time I was experiencing what you are right now : My watercooler tho capable of freezing the water could not keep up when overclocking the XP1800+1900"s, even with a 156 watt pelt chiller inline to assist. Thats why I turned to phase change and looked for a suitable pre-existing, working cooling unit that could be converted. With the advent of the Prometeia, tho a bit expensive, they bring the goods:)

I'll have 3D as soon as I get a KD7 in my hands....I can't run my FSB yet up at 200Mhz because of the 15x multiplier....well....we'll see;) But I don't think it will be stable enough for 3DMark...LOL

mike.elmes:
keep me posted on that enhanced latency OCZ DDR....it looks to be pretty good stuff. I have a stick of their cas 2 PC3200 that runs right with my Corsair...they're putting out some good ram at this time:)

Randi:D

Mr Icee: I was under the impression that water chillers were able to keep up with load temps on high oc'd cpus. My window ac unit dunked into a 46QT resevoir is almost complete and dang I don't wanna find out now it won't keep up with my 2400+@?. My evap gets to -20C so I am hoping for good temps with it. Am I dreaming? Is this a lost cause b/c I would rather bail on the project now and just convert that machine to water cooling than to sink any more $ into it. I would then buy or build a direct die evap phase change cooler ie prometia.

Micutzu
10-31-2002, 05:48 AM
Wow , guys , everytime i come back around here someone amazes me with some great result . That 2400+ looks nice , MrIcee ! Can't wait to see Opp's 2600+ at full gas .

JCviggen
10-31-2002, 07:53 AM
so what kind of improvement does 200 MHz extra AMD clocks get you in 3Dmark ? :)

SKATAN
10-31-2002, 08:20 AM
take it easy

the quest has just begun

and these steppings aren´t very good

MrIcee
10-31-2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by JNav89GT
Mr Icee: I was under the impression that water chillers were able to keep up with load temps on high oc'd cpus. My window ac unit dunked into a 46QT resevoir is almost complete and dang I don't wanna find out now it won't keep up with my 2400+@?. My evap gets to -20C so I am hoping for good temps with it. Am I dreaming? Is this a lost cause b/c I would rather bail on the project now and just convert that machine to water cooling than to sink any more $ into it. I would then buy or build a direct die evap phase change cooler ie prometia.

I found my -30c chiller did just fine..the addition of the 226 watt pelt better...but neither is as effective as the Prometeia.

The watercooler I alluded to with 156 watt pelt chiller assist was a stand up Elkay that didn't have alot of capacity or chilling power.


JC:)

I don't have a board that I can bench 3DMark at this time. I am stuck at 15x multiplier so cannot use my 200Mhz FSB bandwidth. That will arrive in the next days in the form of a KD7 with which I can reduce my multipliers. Then we will get an idea of what 200Mhz or more additional will get us in 3DMark:)

Randi:D

OPPAINTER
10-31-2002, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by Marci
Nice one guys!



So ya got one then Opp... take it it's the KK400 and not the KK400+? Is it an improvement over the KD7 or about same? Noticed your screenies were all at fairly low FSBs... you know what I want... a board that'll let me have 220 FSB without knacking my HDDs...

Marci,

This Iwill is a POS my friend as far as features. There are no Multipliers to be found and the mem voltage goes to a big old 2.6v. Not much hope for this thing enless a Bios update helps alot of issues. For one thing I can't get this Raid to work:D

OPP

JCviggen
10-31-2002, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by MrIcee


JC:)

I don't have a board that I can bench 3DMark at this time. I am stuck at 15x multiplier so cannot use my 200Mhz FSB bandwidth. That will arrive in the next days in the form of a KD7 with which I can reduce my multipliers. Then we will get an idea of what 200Mhz or more additional will get us in 3DMark:)

Randi:D

I think it should get you to score in the low 19000s ... I imagine the radeon is fast enough, increasing the CPU speed (with enough memory performance on tap) should scale pretty linear. Dont think there are any more bottlenecks than that in an AMD system... i'll be looking forward to seeing the results :)

xgman
10-31-2002, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Marci,

This Iwill is a POS my friend as far as features. There are no Multipliers to be found and the mem voltage goes to a big old 2.6v. Not much hope for this thing enless a Bios update helps alot of issues. For one thing I can't get this Raid to work:D

OPP

I think Iwil said they are holding off on their version of a KT400 performance board for a 400a. They fully admited that the current one is a budget non o/c board.

dynetk
10-31-2002, 10:18 AM
Dang looks like I need to get my hands on a 2600+ OPP can you give out the stepping on that chip?

sysfailur
10-31-2002, 10:37 AM
Hahah I knew 2.7ghz would be possible on an AMD. W/ LN2 3ghz shouldn't be a problem!!!!!!

dynetk
10-31-2002, 10:42 AM
I don't think he's pusehd the max of that chip yet maybe will be able to get more out of it if he had it in a different board with the higher voltages available. How soon before someone get's crazy with one of these and ln2? :D

Dissolved
10-31-2002, 11:47 AM
i should sell my moms car so i can buy a 2600+ and some pc3500 :)

MrIcee
10-31-2002, 11:50 AM
JC:)

I'm thinking upper 19,000's possibly, my top score was only 140 points from 19,000...but it wasn't allowed to be published, that at 2316Mhz. It's just a wait and see game now...I think the best scores will be had on a 2600+ tho....I believe they will be about 200Mhz higher benching 3DMark than my 2400+ will allow. I've run 3DMark thru at 2556...but with more voltage 2600Mhz is very possible.:)

Randi:D

ExtremeAMD
10-31-2002, 12:06 PM
Very nice guys. Can you sniff 20k marks at all with that AMD setup? :)

JCviggen
10-31-2002, 01:16 PM
Randi,

you're probably right ... even a Northwood gains like 130-150 points per 100 MHz at equal FSB and memory. 19.600-19.800 should be very possible. That would close the gap with the P4 to only 1000 points. Although I imagine the 3.06 is going to change that again... I do not expect any trouble doing 3D at 4 GHz(+) with those...

Marci
10-31-2002, 02:25 PM
Opp... stamp on it for me when yer done with it then... lol

SKATAN
10-31-2002, 03:05 PM
you guys are forgeting nforce2 in the equation


seen reviews where it is 400~500mrks faster than kt333 and kt400


http://tech-report.com/reviews/2002q4/athlonxp-2800/chipsets/3dmark.gif

http://www.hardocp.com/images/articles/1033441653IhlYJefJEj_3_2.gif

not much , but it´s higher and every point counts ;)

let´s just hope nforce 2 ocs good and takes ram further than kt*** (á lá i845E :) ) ----> now that would be sweet

it doenst seem to have 1t time command so its a possibility :)

MrIcee
10-31-2002, 03:10 PM
Thats correct Skatan:)

BUT..the only thing we are unsure of is it's scaling capability on the FSB/Mem running the DDR Dual channel. OC Workbench has got the Asus up to 207Mhz, but it's unclear whether it's stable enough to run 3DMark. I anxiously await the Abit version, for if it is equipped with all the tweaking options of previous Abit boards, and scales the FSB well...we will all be in for an AMD treat:)
The other treat could come in the form of the KT-400A.

Randi:D

dynetk
10-31-2002, 03:21 PM
From the early pictures I've seen of the abit nforce 2 board it doesn't have the mounting holes for a water block. I hope it was just an early test version and they will have the mounting holes when the final board is out. If it doesn't have it I'll be looking at the epox board..

Marci
10-31-2002, 03:23 PM
Can all the 2400+ owners e-mail me/pm their chip serial numbers and steppings etc please... I'm starting a database of em and highest overclocks etc... need highest stable overclocks, voltage and fsb...

It'll all be going online... ta!!

MrIcee
10-31-2002, 05:03 PM
First let me thank SKATAN for suggesting I may not have optimum contact of my evaporator. I took it apart late last night and cleaned it up, lapped it a bit with 1000grit sandpaper and water...and reassembled the Micro-Freezer assembly using AS3 instead of the supplied Arctic Alumina. At stock speed and voltage I gained -4c to go from -18 to -22c idling. Kudo's my friend...for my next accomplishment is directly related to this adjustment....

OPP....may I join you in the 2700Mhz club??:toast:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/mricee/XP2400/SandraMemory2705.JPG

I needed all of my boards available 2.15v to achieve this result, with the additional available voltage of the KD7 I may be able to stay with OPP for a few more Mhz, at least until I can get my hands on a 2600+:D

Randi:D

Hardass
10-31-2002, 05:17 PM
Randi, Thanks my friend you really gave me something to look forward to.:) Outstanding job!:toast:

TheDude
10-31-2002, 05:30 PM
AMAZING RESULTS!:toast:

I have picked up a lot of tips in this thread and will apply them all when I get my prommie! I have a raid card around here somewhere and will try it on the KD7 to see how high I can get the bus. Also want a 2600! I have the advantage of seeing the great results you guys are getting here and using all your tricks. Probably go thru this whole thread, cut and paste and print!Thanks for sharing with us!:D

OPPAINTER
10-31-2002, 05:35 PM
MrIcee,

Outstanding Overclock my friend:toast:

I'm afraid the XP2600 is on the shelf at the moment, I couldn't handle the Iwill any longer so I'll have to find another Mobo that can run it, Abit says it must be a Engineering Sample, aparentlly they had bugs, somthing to do with the internal Diode. Heres what Abit said:

"Just got the feed back from Taiwan regarding the 2600XP issue you had. Currently the ENGINEERING sample of the 2600XP will not be supported by ANY motherboards that can detect the internal diode of the CPU because there is some kind of BUG of the engineering sample will not produce the correct temperature and cause the system not to boot at all."

So mean while I hooked up a AT72 and a XP2400, this chip sucks:D
Nothing like the XP2600, some great overclocks there MrIcee, I'd like to see you on the KD7, hopefully it doesn't lose any ground. But it will be interesting to find out.

OPP

MrIcee
10-31-2002, 05:54 PM
OPP:)

Thank you 'o overclocking guru:D

If it's a retail 2400+ take a day or 2 to burn it in. This one I have likes voltage and needs it to run up the Mhz scale, but be forewarned....it also runs hot:)

Randi:D

Sayajin
10-31-2002, 08:21 PM
nice guys very nice!
im loving these speeds!...

the 2400+ has only been in Oz for around 2weeks and prices are very high....cant wait till the 2600+ is released here so it will push the 2400+ price down....might grab one!

SKATAN
11-01-2002, 01:45 AM
MrIcee

wow :)

Im glad to have helped :) :toast:

2.7ghz on a not very good cpu (IMO) nothing short than amazing , whats the tops for prime95 or 3d ?

I can only imagine what you guys would be getting if you had the 2400+ that was on hardocp , 2.5ghz on air , 2.8ghz 3d would not be a problem

its just a mather of time till you guys get your hands on one like that :)

GreenBeret
11-01-2002, 02:44 AM
Well done and hurry up, guys ! :D We'd love to see those 2.7GHz babies on the ORB ! :D

:toast:

ouam
11-01-2002, 06:55 AM
wow!
could u run a CPUMark99 benchmark by any chance?
I'd like to know if u can beat a p4 2.8 C1 ..
238 @3.6GHz aircooling

xgman
11-01-2002, 07:48 AM
I am convinced that all of the XP2400-2600 samples were hand picked and running higher than the shipping versions. Hopefully by the time 2600 ships, the yeilds will be up.

MrIcee
11-01-2002, 08:40 AM
Yep...this 2400+ I have is a retail piece bought from Directron. To be honest with all of you, the 2700Mhz I attained is a top overclock and not stable enough to run benches. I have so far successfully run Sandra at 2600Mhz and Passed Prime 95 at 2511Mhz...along with so far looping 3DMark at 2556Mhz. Just waiting for the KD7 to arrive so I can take the next step up :)

Randi:D

QuadDamage
11-01-2002, 08:43 AM
how to avoid data corruption thing? it looks like my cpu and ram are having no probs booting at 200-240fsb, but the "c:\win\system32\config" folder gets nuked to death. maybe pci ata controller will help.

edit: i just read your post Randi. don't even think of getting friggin Epox 8k9a. waste of time and money.

ExtremeAMD
11-01-2002, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by SKATAN
MrIcee

wow :)

Im glad to have helped :) :toast:

2.7ghz on a not very good cpu (IMO) nothing short than amazing , whats the tops for prime95 or 3d ?

I can only imagine what you guys would be getting if you had the 2400+ that was on hardocp , 2.5ghz on air , 2.8ghz 3d would not be a problem

its just a mather of time till you guys get your hands on one like that :)

The hardocp guys have nice chips, but I really don't know why we never see them on the orb. Mr. Icee still has the fastest AMD 3Dmarks score to date, and no one has pulled that from him yet. No Hardocp user, and no other user. I respect Mr. Icee a great deal for that.

MrIcee
11-01-2002, 09:39 AM
XtremeAMD:)

OPP has the fastest AMD system on the ORB just ahead of me...and thank you for the kind words my friend:)

I posted this thread up in a news brief last night..and guess what?? HardOCP, AMDZone and AMDMB....3 sites I have high on my list of good reading...DID NOT pick up our record breaking overclock news of the highest clocked AMD's on the planet. The 2 AMD sites I thought would appreciate this accomplishment as it took alot of effort to achieve so far. Instead..they posted up Muropaketti's "great oveclock" on air of 23xx.Mhz....:rolleyes:

I would like to thank all the sites that did post up our achievement here..thank you all:)

Randi:D

docah
11-01-2002, 09:46 AM
Mricee, Maybey they envy you or something ... the combination of skill and luck to get great oc's on a regular basis is very hard to come by.

I find an overclock of 23** rather nice but you're talking an overclock 200mhz or worse slower than the ones posted here. Not particularly exciting. What's the pr rating on an athlon @ 2.7ghz ? 3200+ ? that's something to smile about.

MrIcee
11-01-2002, 09:49 AM
PR rating according to Sandra is 3800 at 2.6Ghz. You'll have to take it from there:)

Randi:D

SKATAN
11-01-2002, 10:41 AM
MRIcee or OPP :)

Could you do a super PI score on the highest OC possible with the Tbred B

JNav89GT
11-01-2002, 10:54 AM
what the freak. How you guys get such high 3DMarks. I get like 10-11,5k with a 1900mhz AXP at 10x190mhz on 8K3A+ or 8K9A and TI4200 at 300/600. Man my score always seems to suck compared to others.
Even my damm P4 setup suxs with Rad9700 I only get like 16k while others are pulling 17-18k with 2.9ghz cpu. :(

N8
11-01-2002, 11:09 AM
ouam,

Welcome to Xtreme :)

MrIcee,

Anxious to see your 3DMark'n once you get the mobo in ;)

MrIcee
11-01-2002, 11:56 AM
SKATAN:)

I have but it's less than my previous score due to running the FSB so low. I need 200mhz+ to get a decent score, which I can't do until my KD7 arrives:)

Randi:D

Twat
11-01-2002, 12:04 PM
[i]Rig broke down on a 21.2K run and wont be back soon
[/B]


ööööed with prometeia ?

I have now destroyed 3 cpus , 2 mobos and 1 gf4 with prometeia
:(
condensation suxx - this is getting expensive :rolleyes:

MrIcee
11-01-2002, 12:21 PM
It seems you have incorrectly setup the board and micro-freezer indeed. There should be no condensation issues whatsoever if the directions are carried thru completely. Of course high ambient humidity could become a problem which is only correctable thru conditioning of the air in your computer room.:)

JC's issue was not a condensation caused one. You are the first person I have seen post online with such critical and repeated problems, this seems more of user error than the fault of the Prometeia.

Randi:D

mike.elmes
11-01-2002, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Twat
ööööed with prometeia ?

I have now destroyed 3 cpus , 2 mobos and 1 gf4 with prometeia
:(
condensation suxx - this is getting expensive :rolleyes:

Hmmm....seems your doing something wrong....I've been running a vapochill for over 2 years and have only burned out a couple of psu's and one cpu just died. You may want to re- insulate your evaporator hose, because if your having condensation problems there are fixes. Try contacting Chip-Con , they're customer service is very good.:D

Twat
11-01-2002, 12:55 PM
I have followed the manual 100% - VERY THOUROGHLY

My first cpu died after about one month - all cpu pins were green
Same with second cpu also green and shorted cpu pins
then the gf4 started to get green on the resistors and thereafter died :(

now after 3 weeks my p4@2.53 died

This suck ' and my new friends :) I consider myself to be VERY experienced

EDIT: how long have anyone of ya used Prom with the same cpu ?

And a friend of mine have had his vapo running for almost a year with the same cpu and no problems :(

MrIcee
11-01-2002, 01:06 PM
Have you had any prior experience with phase change cooling?? Most who have cooled by this method including myself, and this is well known preparation, will fill the cpu pin holes and center of socket with dielectric grease. It is not normally necessary but a good preventive medicine indeed. The condensation you allude to is because you are not getting a good seal on the Micro-Freezer, allowing outside air into the chamber. If it is done correctly, it is hermetically sealed so no air can enter and contribute to condensation problems. But take my advice and prep the cpu socket...it will alleviate the green pin problem:)

I would contact Chip-Con as suggested , they have an excellent and responsive staff to help customers deal with these things. You should have made contact after your first failed cpu...one cannot afford this.

Randi:D

OPPAINTER
11-01-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Twat
I have followed the manual 100% - VERY THOUROGHLY

My first cpu died after about one month - all cpu pins were green
Same with second cpu also green and shorted cpu pins
then the gf4 started to get green on the resistors and thereafter died :(

now after 3 weeks my p4@2.53 died

This suck ' and my new friends :) I consider myself to be VERY experienced

EDIT: how long have anyone of ya used Prom with the same cpu ?

And a friend of mine have had his vapo running for almost a year with the same cpu and no problems :(

Twat,

Did you fill the Allen Screw holes with the putty??

OPP

Twat
11-01-2002, 01:20 PM
No I had no prior experience with extreme cooling so my vapo friend was very helpfull.
He suggested that I should use dielectric grease since this is recommended by vapo but not by prom so I decided not :mad:
I have extra insulated the cpu kit - but in idle I hit around -50 so condensation form on the outside of the cpu kit ! actually on the insulation stuff.

My friend is gonna upgrade tomorrow with his new vapo pe and p4 2.53 - if he hits 175 fsb stable i am gonna die since he has the same mobo as me (that was what i did) :(

Twat
11-01-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Twat,

Did you fill the Allen Screw holes with the putty??

OPP
yes - all done as suggested by chip con and some extra

Hose is fine 2 ( the build quality of the compressor housing is terrible :D )

Its-Freezing
11-01-2002, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Twat
I have followed the manual 100% - VERY THOUROGHLY

My first cpu died after about one month - all cpu pins were green
Same with second cpu also green and shorted cpu pins
then the gf4 started to get green on the resistors and thereafter died :(

now after 3 weeks my p4@2.53 died

This suck ' and my new friends :) I consider myself to be VERY experienced

EDIT: how long have anyone of ya used Prom with the same cpu ?

And a friend of mine have had his vapo running for almost a year with the same cpu and no problems :(


Hi' Twat,

first of all I am sorry to hear about your losses. I would suggest to you in future to instantly get assistance, when you see a problem, rather than continuing getting components destroyed one after the other.

If CPU pins and graphic card pins get green, it is most definately caused by formation of condensation. Since the CPU is inside a closed compartment, where there is (supposedly) no supply of moist air, condensation cannot form here. Only conclusion: there must be a leak, supplying the hermetic compartment with a constant supply of fresh air, the question is not if it is there, but where it is !

It can be under a component sitting under the bracket crossing the barrier into the cell, or it can be at the screwheads. Infact it can also be at the edge of the MB PCB, if the CPU socket is very close to the edge of the MB, vapour diffusion can occour through the glassfiber material itself. A little trick to prevent this, is to take a piece of Sealstring, and place it around the edge of the MB in the vecinity of the socket :cool:

I guess we can take it that your condensation problem must be originating from inside the cell (since you had corrosion on the legs of the CPU), and since I presume you have not found a lake of water inside the cell when opening it, it is likely to asume that the leak must be in the bottom of the cell (as you have detected corrosion on the AGP-card too), making me believe that condensate is running down from the cell onto the AGP bus.

Obviously not a very pleasant situation, I must admit :(.

However take it up with the support guys at Chip-con, that's what they are there fore. I presume you have contacted them on this already, and if so I am certain that you must also have received a reply (unless there has been an error in your mail responce address).

I am also in charge of the support department, and I do not take it lightly if an issue is not taken care of promptly and to the best of our ability.

I only know of one insident which look partly similar to your desciption here, and I know this has been dealt with, and that we are awaiting some feedback from this customer, in order to provide any guidance, or other further assistance.

I certainly hope that we can sort this one out too. So far if there has been a problem, we have always been able to find a solution. But it does require 2 way communication, which I am sure everybody will agree ;)

Kind regards
Steen

Twat
11-01-2002, 01:41 PM
Dohh thx Steen -

But maybe we shall discuss in open so other that have same problems can benefit from it ?

I have put sealstring around the outerface of the cpu kit towards the mobo.
The condensation forms there (on the sealstring) when the system runs idle for prolonged time
The temperature displays -50 celsius after a while in idle (roxx :banana: )

But shall also say that the backside of the mobo did get green spots after a while did I forget to say that I have killed 2 motherboards too ?

My quest is : what is the reliability of using prom longtherm ? Is the insulation technique good enough ?

Any1 with long term experience ??

mike.elmes
11-01-2002, 01:42 PM
Now that, my friends is excellent customer service!!

At a go Chip-Con.:toast:

Twat
11-01-2002, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by mike.elmes
Now that, my friends is excellent customer service!!

At a go Chip-Con.:toast:

my kills ? :confused:

OPPAINTER
11-01-2002, 01:51 PM
Hey ya Twat, you wouldn't happen to work for or be Affiliated with the Vapo Chill guys would you?? :D

OPP

TheDude
11-01-2002, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by mike.elmes
Now that, my friends is excellent customer service!!

At a go Chip-Con.:toast:

YES INDEED! Assures me that I made the right choice in ordering my Prometeia to replace my old Vapochill!:D

TheDude
11-01-2002, 02:09 PM
my kills ?

Twat,

He made some suggestions to try to help you, one of which was to contact Customer Service, have you? He also answered both of the questions that you closed your post with...long term use= (1 other customer that he is still working with) and insulation technique good enough ?= (yes..at least for all but you and 1 other guy.) You give the impression that you are just here to complain without following his advice? Makes it kind of hard for anyone to help you. You killed 3 CPUs, a vdeo card and 3 Mobos and now want the problem fixed thru a couple of posts on a forum? Call Customer Service as he suggested, I am sure they will work with you, if you will work with them. Good Luck with it.
:D

Its-Freezing
11-01-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by OPPAINTER
Hey ya Twat, you wouldn't happen to work for or be Affiliated with the Vapo Chill guys would you?? :D

OPP

Hmmm, hmmm, Opp, that was below the belt now, wasn't it ?

Unfortunately it is quite late here, so I am not up to much more for now, sorry.

The fact that there was also green spots on the rear, does suggest vapour diffusion is taking place somehow.

On the other hand, the last post of Twat's also indicate an other potential problem (maybe it would be a good idea to move out of the flat on top of the swimbath :D LOL, just joking of course :).

By the way -50 that's awesome, especially if it is a 220V version.
:toast:

Well back to the issue, Twat wrote about some outside condensation forming at prolonged idle. A couple of measures could be looked into.

1. check that the coolinghead is warm (otherwise there is an error in it ! )
2. Have a background task running, to prevent total idle, with such a powerful cooler (mind you I don't know at which freq and V-core this is happening)
3. control humidity in the room, if possible ( I am sure now that Twat is indeed the particular customer I was thinking about before, and I am also fairly certain, we never got any feedback on an old support mail, where we asked for a couple of extra details, in order to evaluate the scenario, as we also suggested some measures which could be taken, we were under the asumption the issue was closed, untill 1 or 2 days ago).
4. If humidity cannot be controlled, add additional insulation around the coolinghead (we can send some if you like, but as I described earlier we prefer to fully understand a problem before we propose any remidies towards its solution).
5. Send more information to Chip-con Support :) and get more suggestions.
6. Add additional heating in the rear cover.
7. If there is an error on the Prometeia, get a new one (at the risk it does not cool quite as good though :(. -50 that's really a killer, pun intended ! :p

I am getting too tired for this now, that's what is causing all the bad jokes in this post, sorry folks, and good night.

Steen

TheDude
11-01-2002, 02:35 PM
Good Night Its-Freezing,

Your efforts here are VERY much appreciated!

Thanks for taking the time to help and for going above and beyond your regular channels of Customer Support to post here. This is almost unheard service these days!
:D

Dissolved
11-01-2002, 02:53 PM
runnind idle to me sounds like the problem. i dunno why you would run a computer w/ awesome sub zero cooling and run it idle. i think he needs to join Xtreme's folding team. :)

Twat
11-01-2002, 03:46 PM
yeah well (after filtering out öööö)
ChipCon do advise that their system should be used in a air conditon enviroment otherwise it will generate problem (condensation) ?
Yes ?

And who have used prom for a month with the same cpu WITHOUT condensation ?
None ? YES ?

Why is the vapo system using a lot better insulation when it doesnt reach so low temperatures ?

My prom is put aside until I get trusty information - chip con will surely like to keep problems like this handled face to face so the world is not informed.
I belive strongly chip con have a major problem - I am no dumbass newbie as some of you already have started to cook up here.
And I have not been able to surpass any vapochill results I have seen either

emtp563
11-01-2002, 03:47 PM
If there is condensation forming (as seen with the green pins on the cpu), then ambient air is making contact with the cooler air near the cpu core- specifically near the evaporator. I have a Vapochill, and the only time I have ever experienced a problem is when my insulating teqniques were poor. If ambient air (especially when the humidity is high) comes in contact with cooler air, or even cool surfaces that are near the evaporator- CONDENSATION WILL DEVELOP- PERIOD. The only way to alleviate this is to insulate the entire area around the evaporator and any parts near the evaporator that may be cooled by it. The only way to achieve this is to prevent ambient air to enter these areas.

I believe your Promethia comes with a pin heater. If so, are you using it? I personally do not use pin heaters, I use dielectric grease in it's place. Put dielectric grease (the exact name for it is Permatex Dielectric Tune-Up Grease) in EACH AND EVERY pin hole in the socket. USE A LOT OF IT!!! Do not be afraid to skimp, smear the whole tube of it into the socket holes- the more the better. Think of getting the best blow-job of your life and shooting your load all over the öööööes face- that's how much grease you should use. Don't worry about getting it where it souldn't- it's non-conductive.The purpose of using this is to eliminate any air that may reside in the pin holes. The pins are going to be cooled along with the cpu core (to a lesser extent) and if they come in contact with ambient air while being cooled, condensation will form.

Next, insulate the backside of your motherboard. The entire socket area will be cooled to some extent, therefore insulate the area immediately behind the socket with insulation. I prefer Neoprene, but in a pinch, closed-cell foam will do. Cut a square out of a sheet that matches your cpu socket, get some 3M Silicone sealer/glue and glue it right to the back of your motherboard.

Next, I don't do this currently- but I have in the past. Put a bead of that silicone sealant around the ENTIRE outer perimeter of the socket. This will prevent any ambient air from getting in from underneath the socket and up in to the pin holes/underneath the cpu.

Next, cut a small square of your Neoprene/closed-cell foam and put it in the socket itself (where the thermistor usually resides). This will evacuate any ambient air from there and keep it out.

Also, on the Vapochill- over time the neoprene gasket that resides between the clamshell and the socket becomes crushed. It loses it's elasticity and eventually winds up like looking/feeling like a permanently flattened sponge. I actually cut a piece of closed-cell foam of the same size and siliconed it to my clamshell- for some added insulation- even now that is starting to become permanently "squished."

You swear you are following the insulating diresctions to the tee and you are a vetran overclocker. OK, we believe you. Maybe the Promethia is defective? I'm not familiar with the Promy. Is the housing similar to the Vapochill clamshell? If there is a crack in that, it will leak. Also, I experienced a leak in my insulated hose leading from the compressor to the evaporator. Vapochill has a crappy case design. The hose was in contact with the finger-guard on my power supply. With the ööööing crappy Vapochill design, you had to remove the power supply to get at the CPU. Well, after doing this about 100 times, the insulation on the hose eventually wore out and ripped. THis caused condensation to form, which dripped on to my graphics card. Luckily I noticed it, and fixed it before it fried the card. Is the insulation on your evaporator hose damaged in any way?

I have been phase-change cooling for two years now, I hope my comments/suggestions have helped. Hopefully you can learn from my mistakes ;-)

I got rid of that crappy Vapochill case and modded a Lian-Li. Here is my rig running the 2400+ @ 2500Mhz:

http://www.oc-athlonxp.com/web_images/lian/lian1.jpg
http://www.oc-athlonxp.com/web_images/lian/lian2.jpg

Do you have a digital camera? If so, can you take some pics so maybe we can see something wrong?

Twat
11-01-2002, 04:11 PM
Your rig is NICE man !

Thx for answering me polite :toast:

what is really scary is that i get condensation on the bacside of my mobo ! on the solderings outside the backside insulation
Cant say exactly when it happened but cpu motherboard died 100% after merely a month !

There is not a pinheater ? Should it be ?
Chip cons manual do not instruct regarding the insulation as you say ? Are their manual incomplete ?

emtp563
11-01-2002, 04:23 PM
Their manual is not neccisarily incomplete, I'm just stating my personal experiences. I do not know if Promethia even uses pinheaters, but Vapochill does. You don't need it if you use dielectric grease. I'm assuming you already have the backside of your mobo insulated, and that is where your condensation formed. That indicates air got in there somehow. Take the insulation off and get yourself a tube of silicone sealant from your local hardware store. You can use some sort of 3M silicone. I use Permatex "Clear RTV Silicone Adhesive Sealant", part# 66B. Put a moderately thick bead of it all the way around the square piece of insulation, then glue it to the motherboard. This is in effect making the part of the motherboard that the insulation is covering "air-tight."

The term "insulation" is perhaps a bit misleading. What you want to achieve with the insulation is an "air-tight" enviorment mainly. However, you are insulating also, but to a lesser extent.

Here is the Vapochill pin heater:

http://www.oc-athlonxp.com/web_images/lian/heater.jpg

Here is what you need to do with the backside insulation:

http://www.oc-athlonxp.com/web_images/lian/insulation.jpg

Put a bead of silicone all the way around it.

Twat
11-01-2002, 04:35 PM
manual is not neccisarily incomplete

aeee well since none of this countermeasures are mentioned it sure must be incomplete ?

have any1 dragged vapochill or chipcon to court + ever ?
I am figuring that my losses is about the same as if I file a case to court against prom ? and i am god damn tempted just now.

LBJGH
11-01-2002, 04:37 PM
I bow to your eminence!

:eek:

emtp563
11-01-2002, 04:41 PM
I'm sure there is a disclaimer in the manual somewhere :-(

Twat
11-01-2002, 04:55 PM
disclaimer doesnt apply if this is a repeatedly problem
My uncle is a lawyer and I am gonna check out this issue
I am not gonna sit here with a huge loss and pretend that I am happy customer ! Prom is responsible for inadequate insulation and manual.
And as expected none answered my longterm quest ! Because none have long term experiences ?

emtp563
11-01-2002, 05:09 PM
You should have got a Vapochill my man. They have been around for years. I'm a happy customer of two years :-) Don't let these pro-Promethia people fool you. Does Promethia cool a cpu more? The answer is YES. Does it make a difference whether a cpu is cooled to -20C or -40C? No, it does not. The bottom line is that you get what you pay for. Vapochill has the experience and has the better quality unit- in my opinion. Look at this thread in the Vapochill support forums. Out main man Oppainter is even participating in it. This thread is a MUST READ: VAPOCHILL SUPPORT FORUM (http://forum.vapochill.com/showthread.php?threadid=954)

Twat
11-01-2002, 05:47 PM
yeah


The picture is a lot clearer - and I am soooo ###

ChipCon ? u wanna replace my defect hardware and accept return of this "whatever" ? or do you want to see me assemble prometeia in a court room ?
Youre on + I am gonna drag your ass in there

No discuss 1-1 let the world see that u have a MAJOR problem

bigdawginva
11-01-2002, 06:13 PM
Can we get one of the mods to edit this thread and move the Phase Change portions to the proper forum? Or at least get it back on topic. I'm really interested in reading updates on the 2400+ O/Cs. Thanks.

emtp563
11-01-2002, 06:34 PM
You are right bigdawginva :D

Hardass
11-01-2002, 06:35 PM
It,s back on topic as of now. this is MrIcee,s thread it will not be altered until he ask for it to be changed. There will not be any more one man crusades in this thread.

Hardass Admin.

MrIcee
11-02-2002, 04:25 AM
Hardass:)

I would kindly ask that a thread be created in Phase change and all posts here regarding the Prom be moved to it. I appreciate it very much, and we will continue on with this thread under it's intended purpose, to report and discuss results of my 2400+ and OPP's 2600+, or more aptly, OPP's recently aquired 2400+ also:)

Thanks in advance !

Randi:D

Its-Freezing
11-02-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Twat
yeah


The picture is a lot clearer - and I am soooo ###

ChipCon ? u wanna replace my defect hardware and accept return of this "whatever" ? or do you want to see me assemble prometeia in a court room ?
Youre on + I am gonna drag your ass in there

No discuss 1-1 let the world see that u have a MAJOR problem


"Twat"

Apart from the fact that we all remorse you losses, I do find it strange, that you have kept mounting new H/W over and over again, and not getting back to us, with the information that we requested, in order to help you the first time you contacted us back in August. Not having heard from you since then, we were obviously left to believe that you were able to solve whatever problems you had, from the advise we gave you back then, on your own, and just forgot to write us back, as a few do from time to time.

Then all of a sudden you come forward again, now with an unbelievable amount of destroyed H/W, you destort or ignore the advise I am trying to give you here, and instead take advice from a kind individual who unfortunately does not have any prior experience with the Prometeia. You use whatever seem to fit your quest, whatever that may be, and forward threats here about a lawsuit etc. on the basis of his advice, instead of getting back to Chip-con Support staff, with additional information and feedback on our suggestions. I must admit I do find that very strange, and counter productive. What exactly is it you want to achieve ?

Did you just happen to remember your problems when reading a thread here at Xtremesystems.org that a little over 9000 viewers were following, or were there other interests that motivated this ?
Mind you, I am not accusing you, just trying to understand it.

You request that you want your problems and the way they have been dealt with out in the open, but do not reveal your identity.

Now I am not aware if your name is present here somewhere, but since we only had one customer with severe condensation issues, I was in no doubt of your true identity. Which of course I have not revealed here, as it is not up to me to do this but yourself !

This is why I have taken out the full corespondance from the support mails between Chip-con and yourself, then as you requested it is all out in the open.

Once you get through the reactions from users here in the forum, from your totally uncalled for attempt to :flame: us, you are of course welcome back at the support department, where I am sure they will de their best to help you out, as long as you provide the feedback they need in order to find a solution to your problems.

Edit: In the event, that you are not the same person, behind the postings here in this forum, and the communication below, your popping up here out of nowhere looks even more strange, as we do not have any other support issues even remotely like this one ! In fact we currently only had 3, whereof 1 was sorted out just before the week-end to the customers full satisfaction, one is about to find it's solution, and then this one. By the way the 2 other issues involved poor CPU contact.

Kind regards
Steen

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: C-C Support
To: xxxxxxx@acn.gr
Sent: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:44:42
Subject: Re: I have a problem with my Prometeia


Dear Xxxxx,

We are very sorry to hear that you are having renewed problems with condensation on your Prometeia.

We found your previous mail, and our response to it, and we realized that we never got any feedback from you, thus left believing that you had solved whatever problems you had yourself.

Please go through this previous mail again, so we know that you have understood it, and so we can get the information which we have requested.

From your description, and the picture you have included in your last mail to us, a possible explanation could be that the insulation on the thermal bus has been pressed up against the side panels. Please inform if this is true, as it will affect the solutions we would consider and propose towards your problem.

In case your insulation is pressed and thinner at a certain point, it does no longer isolate as good as it should do, thus resulting in condensation at the point you describe. It is easily cured however by just adding some additional insulation around that area. We can send you some self adhesive extra insulation, which you can apply. In order to avoid this to happen again, it is however important that you try to relocate the position of your thermal bus, perhaps by pushing it a bit further downwards into the cooling unit, to reduce the free length of the thermal bus in the PC case.

Please come back to us, with some feedback, and your current address, in case we need to send you some stuff.

Kind regards
Support department
Chip-con ApS


From: <xxxxxxx@acn.gr>
To: <Support@Chip-Con.com>
Subject: Problem with Prometeia
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:57

This is my 2nd mail about the problem i have with my Prometeia.
I have condensation problem in the section marked with red colour in the picture attached.
The situation is getting dangerous cause now i have more water drops than earlier in August.
I tried covering that section of the tube with tape...but didnt help much.
I really need a solution.

Also..is there a way to change the settings of my Prometeia
so that it wont be able to reach temps more than -20C or -25C ?

Sorry i forgot to attach the pic in my previous mail.

Thanks in advance
Xxxxx Xxxxxxx



----- Original Message -----
From: C-C Support
To: Xxxxxx
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: I have a problem with my Prometeia

Dear Xxxxxx,

first sorry for not returning to you any sooner, and sorry to hear about your troubles.

Due to the fact that you did not supply any serial number of your unit, we had to go back in the files to find out which model variant you have been delivered. We believe we have sorted this out, but to be quite sure, it would still be helpful if you supplied this information when you answer this mail.

Water forms from condensation, and condensation occours when the temperature of a surface gets too cold in relation to the surrounding air. Warm air can hold a larger amount of moist, therefore the probelm will eventually occour on any cooling system, if the surrounding temperature and humidity gets sufficiently high.

You wrote that you had up to 36 degrees ambient temperature, I presume the air was also very humid (which you typically detect, when it is difficult to swet to keep your body temperature down). Such conditions could be beyond the specifications of the product variant that you have, with the information at hand, we cannot tell. If possible please inform us of the relative humidity in your area on the day you detected the water dripping.

There could however also be another reason. On some mainboards it is possible to turn the Coolinghead the wrong way around, so the hose is not entering the Coolinghead (also called Microfreezer) in the upper half, which is essential to the proper operation of the system.

Please check that the head is mounted the right way around, and also please inform us which MB, CPU type and model, V-Core and Speed you are operating. These are important paramters to analyse the nature of your problem.

In the event the Coolinghead is mounted correctly there are still some means of getting around this problem, under such extreme operating conditions as yours.

By starting a background tast that loads the CPU constantly with some serious work when you are not utilizing all the performance from it yourself. Perhaps operate at a higher V-Core within reason of course) or a higher frequency if possible. This will prevent the temperature in the return tube (suction tube) to go too cold and thus reduce the chances of condensation under the conditions described.

Let me finaly asure you that if the Coolinghead is mounted so the hermetic cell is properly sealed, you do not need to worry about condensation inside the Cell where the CPU is placed, as that is not possible. Only if the seal is not made properly, and there is a small entry under an SMD component located so it connects the 2 areas, and not peroperly sealed off, only then would you get condensation iside the Cell.

When we have the requested information, we will be able to analyse the nature of the problem, and consider if you have a specific problem with your current system, or the cause is to be found somewhere else.

Kind regards
Support Department
Chip-con ApS


----- Oprindelig meddelelse -----
Fra: Xxxxx
Til: Support@Chip-Con.com
Sendt: 4. august 2002 19:57
Emne: I have a problem with my Prometeia


Hi there,greetings to all

Here is my problem.
I have seen water coming out of the mid section of the tube
Some little drops coming out of that black foam

Ambient temps here in Athens 32-36 C
The Prometeia settings are default.

My setup is in the attachment.

Thanks
Xxxxx Xxxxxxx

Pedro Rocha
11-03-2002, 01:56 PM
About that Twat post:

1- I consider Steen, Martin and the rest of the Chip-con team one the best support teams I ever deal in this business.

They help me a lot in the past when I have some problems with my Prometeia (even send me mails after dinner or in the weekends, clearly exceeding their professional obligations).


2 - About the above-mentioned condensation issues on the Prometeia:

As long as the hermetic cell is hermetically sealed, no condensation will form inside it

In the past I experienced some condensation build up inside the hermetic cell, because I have made an error when I mounted the cooler onto the MB.

Now I think I managed to get the hermetic cell completely sealed and have a very good contact with CPU - Idle less than -24º C (the minimal temperature on the motherboard sensor) and at full load never passed -12º C even a 3.700Mhz.

From times to times I check for outside condensation, touching the various surfaces to feel if they are damp or cold is always a good sign.

I also have some condensation problems on the thermal bus, the above-mentioned "little drops coming out of that black foam"...

By placing a piece of self-adhesive insulation material around the condensations points cures that, or at least don’t let the moisture cause any damage on the motherboard or any other component.

So to eliminate this "airpocket effect" I suggest all Prometeia users to put some self-adhesive in the thermal bus, please see photo bellow:

http://pprocha1.no.sapo.pt/PromeLI-IsolationTape.jpg

Tom Holck
11-10-2002, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Twat
yeah


The picture is a lot clearer - and I am soooo ###

ChipCon ? u wanna replace my defect hardware and accept return of this "whatever" ? or do you want to see me assemble prometeia in a court room ?
Youre on + I am gonna drag your ass in there

No discuss 1-1 let the world see that u have a MAJOR problem

Dear Twat

I was one of the first in Denmark that got the Vapochill, version 1.0 beta...At that time it was great.. The "rekords" are still there, I mixed with the "Dry Ice Cooling Boyes"
Going 1890 Mhz on Tbird 1333 on the old Abit KT7A MOB.

http://www.vr-zone.com/guides/Tbird/page2.htm

Later on, JC Viggen from Belgium also used Vapochill
He have done 2173 Mhz and I done 2130 on the Athlon-XP

http://www.vr-zone.com/guides/AMD/AthlonXP/page2.htm

Later I got my 2. Vapochill for a P4 system, The AMD was not performing so well at that time. Only Oppainter could get the XP2200+ to fly. At that time the Vapochill was "outdated" the cooling was inadequate on P4.
Then Prometeia came, it was great, as you all now, of course there are things to bee aware of.
I then got my 3. Vapochill the new Vapo PE, but it was not so god as the Prometeia. I have tried the same MOB and CPU on both systems, Prometeia is a clear nr 1....

When you change MOB an CPU all the time to tweeak the last performance out of your rig, there will always be fried CPU's MOB's and PSU's.

I have killed 5-6 AMD's on the bad mounting-system on the Vapochill-systems... and some boards too.
But that's what happends, I will newer claim anyone for that.

Twat, if you have "expirence" as you say, I am sure, that you have tried to kill a CPU with an aircooler... It happends...


Best OC regards


Tom Holck
Denmark

The Homeland of Vapochill and Prometeia

PS: I'll give you 2 vapochill for that great -50 Prometeia you don't like... I think you live close by here in Denmark...

:banana: :banana:

Tom Holck
11-10-2002, 01:54 AM
The same rig with P4 2.53 (old stepping)on Abit IT7 board

Vapochill P4 2533@3162

Prometeia P4 2533@3244

All the same, PSU, Mem, MOD etc. But my best Vapochill can only go 166, the Prometeia can go 170, that means that the men settings is 221 and 226

Tom Holck
11-10-2002, 01:55 AM
Best OC regards


Tom Holck
Denmark

sysfailur
11-14-2002, 12:08 PM
Well, looks like I'm getting a prom. hehe. And I'll be trying LOTS of different cpus in it. Gonna see if I can get my Duron 1.2 to 2ghz... previously I had gotten it to 1.66. Also gonna try my 1600+ Tbred and aim for 2.3ghz (previous 2.101), and of course then my 2400+ and 2600+. ;)

Is reseating the Prom tricky?