Waterblock Internals

[Gogeta]

I just broke down my loop for some maintenance, and decided to crack open my Swiftech MCW-5002P and Dangerden Maze4 GPU. I thought some of you might be interested. :)

The "wear" on these blocks is after 9 months of being in the same loop - 8 months with water wetter additive, and 1 month with Prestone antifreeze.

Swiftech MCW-5002P

http://home.mchsi.com/~246gts/Pics/MCW5002_internal.jpg

DD Maze4 GPU

http://home.mchsi.com/~246gts/Pics/DDMaze4GPU_internal.jpg

There doesn't appear to be any corrosion on either block. From what I've read, corrosion would look like a gloppy white substance. However, there is some copper discoloration on the tops and insides of the channel walls on the Maze4 and the 5002. The black coating on the top of the block that sits above the maze design has also come off, which I'm guessing is the anodization of the aluminum top. This black coating didn't come off until I brushed my finger over it, which is why I kept finding little black pieces of "stuff" in my water when I emptied the loop. I'm definitely not putting this loop back together until I have a Fusion HL that I know wont fall apart like the Maze4 did. That freshly exposed aluminum top would definitely cause some damage.

Sorry Craig, no 4G update until the new block arrives. Better safe than sorry, especially with Cathar's blocks. :(

Thoughts/comments?

[stayfrosty]

what was your % of water wetter as like you say there is a neglegable ammount of corrosion or anything

And if you wanted to shine them up more theres this stuff called "brasso" it works wonders for cleaning copper off

[Gogeta]

I used a mix of 20:1 (WW:distilled water.) Am I right in thinking the black coating on the GPU block is the anodization...or is that just paint?

[Craig]

Very good timing M8! !

Trouble was just getting ready to begin. The black "stuff" is indeed the anodized coating. Note how it first releases where it's in closest contact with copper.

And not just in the Maze, note the 4 "thin" spots in the anodizing of the swifty on the lower edge of it. Now note the darkened 4 corisponding copper pins.

The Swifty is clearly better coated/anodized than the Maze was, yet it to would have started to react much faster soon.

BTW,

Swiftech recommends 25% anti-freeze with distilled water to prevent corrosion. Just a thought for others who still have aluminum in loops. Course 25% of anti-freeze is enough to also impact flow rates and cooling. A no win situation. :shrug:

Gogeta the force is with you! :D :up:

If I were you I'd connect my rad to a water line of some kind and flush the he[[ out of it to ensure none of the particles you saw in suspension remain to greet your Cascade. :eek:

;) :toast:

[Craig]

Sorry Craig, no 4G update until the new block arrives. Better safe than sorry, especially with Cathar's blocks. :(

Thoughts/comments?

Did you mean the Cascade, or did you order a G4 as well? LOL, man you'll soon have a draw full of blocks like some of the rest of us. :p: Not that that is a bad thing..... ;)

:toast:

EDIT:

3 sites that have the Fusion HL, the first only has the HL Fusion with brass top & Silverprop's NB block with a aluminum top. They don't carry the CPU blocks anymore. It's in Canada.

www.criticool.com

A pair of US sites with the Fusion SL in stock as well, same as the HL just lower for those not using RAM sinks. And these sites also have the brass toped Silverprop CPU & NB blocks, very sharp & no corrosion risk.

www.bestpcmods.com

www.frozenmods.com

Hope these are of help to some. These are all the sites listed in north america by the main Silverprop site. :toast:

[Torin]

What is the difference in the Fusion SL and Fusion HL? Obviously one has a smaller profile, but performance wise, do they differ at all?

[Gogeta]

Did you mean the Cascade, or did you order a G4 as well? LOL, man you'll soon have a draw full of blocks like some of the rest of us. :p: Not that that is a bad thing..... ;)

Hehe, I wish I had a G4 on order, but I was referring to the Cascade. I suppose if/when I switch to a socket 939 setup, I'll be in the market for a G4.

Phew, now I'm really glad I popped that gpu block open. Those black particles would definitely clog the Cascade's jets. As for flushing the rad out, I'll probably have to rig up something extremely ghetto with a gallon milk jug and my bathtub, as the Panworld is the only pump I have on hand.

I ordered a Fusion HL from Criticool last night, so it will be at least a week before I get everything connected again.


Gogeta the force is with you! :D :thumbsup:
LOL, indeed :bounces:

EDIT: Btw, I found out why my temps were so high. There was nowhere near enough AS5 on the cpu! Its always something simple. :D

[moosturdsoed25]

Did you mean the Cascade, or did you order a G4 as well? LOL, man you'll soon have a draw full of blocks like some of the rest of us. :p: Not that that is a bad thing..... ;)

:toast:

EDIT:

3 sites that have the Fusion HL, the first only has the HL Fusion with brass top & Silverprop's NB block with a aluminum top. They don't carry the CPU blocks anymore. It's in Canada.

www.criticool.com

A pair of US sites with the Fusion SL in stock as well, same as the HL just lower for those not using RAM sinks. And these sites also have the brass toped Silverprop CPU & NB blocks, very sharp & no corrosion risk.

www.bestpcmods.com

www.frozenmods.com

Hope these are of help to some. These are all the sites listed in north america by the main Silverprop site. :toast:

Actually, no. Corrosion will affect the aluminum, not the copper. If you added the cascade now with tap, it would not be harmed but for the floating black particles clogging the jets. In our cases, we have to worry more about the tops falling apart than the bases. :toast:

[Craig]

What is the difference in the Fusion SL and Fusion HL? Obviously one has a smaller profile, but performance wise, do they differ at all?


Performance is the same, just added height to allow for use of RAM sinks with the HL. The SL is lower profile that the Swiftech 50 or the Danger Den Maze 4. While those two blocks are tall enough to make a second PCI slot very hard to use, the Fusion SL can be used & blocks only 1.

So if you need all the PCI slots you can get, then the Fusion SL is the best choice, but you'll not be able to sink the memory chips under the inlet/outlet. If you want good memory cooling & RAM sinks then you want the HL, which was brought out for those who want that.

[Craig]

If you added the cascade now with tap, it would not be harmed but for the floating black particles clogging the jets. :toast:

But that is the point you see. Cascade's need to have water that is filtered and free of all lint dirt ect. Chips of anodizing and the gunk that then forms would choke the Cascade in nothing flat.

And the jets are tiny, if you've not seen one, you'd be very surprised how small they really are.

Storm will be much the same, most of all the G5 silver Storm, which has more and smaller jets than the G4 does. I'm not sure which jets would be smaller, the Cascades or the G5 Storm, but both have numerous tiny jets.

Copper does corrode, just at a much slower rate than aluminum. So you are correct that the aluminum gets eaten so much faster that the copper is seldom impacted enough to matter. But in the case of the Cascade & Storm with the very fine base features, ANY damage, even slight would have a adverse affect on performance.

If you do a extensive search at Pro Cooling you'd find some pics of blocks so eaten up, that the top did fail and leak. And the corrosion effects were so bad that the copper base showed pitting as well, although not close to the damage to the top.

I'm not sure how/if silver would be affected as it's even more stable than copper.

[Craig]

EDIT: Btw, I found out why my temps were so high. There was nowhere near enough AS5 on the cpu! Its always something simple. :D

How large a reduction did the remounting give to you? Did you then test to see if you could raise your O/C? Results if you did?

[Gogeta]

How large a reduction did the remounting give to you? Did you then test to see if you could raise your O/C? Results if you did?

I didn't have an opportunity to do a remount, as I had already emptied the water and was hell-bent on getting the cascade block in place so I could re-fill the following day. However, there was such a fine layer of AS5 that it only took one q-tip to thoroughly clean both the IHS and waterblock.

[Craig]

I didn't have an opportunity to do a remount, as I had already emptied the water and was hell-bent on getting the cascade block in place so I could re-fill the following day. However, there was such a fine layer of AS5 that it only took one q-tip to thoroughly clean both the IHS and waterblock.

Yeah, in hindsight it was a foolish question, all the above discussing what you'd found in your loop and all.

I hope your Fusion gets here quick! !!

Not only very much interested in seeing if you hit 4gig stable enough for 24/7, but how high 3D scores you can run. Will be a very strong water loop.