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Sleepy Samurai
07-26-2005, 06:29 AM
Hello,

I have been reading this thread almost like it was a religion and have a few questions.

I am planning on getting OCZ EL DDR PC-3500 Gold GX Dual Channel Kit 1GB and have not seen any information on how it works with the k8n neo2 plat. Any comments?

I have hit FSB 230 at 3-4-4-8 2T @ 2.7v 4x HTT with the Hynix no problem and would like to test it further. What should I use to test the system for over clocking?

Is 5000+ rpm for the northbridge normal? The fan has started to make a whinning noise that comes and goes.

What can I use to monitor the system other than control center?


AMD 64 3200+ Veince w XP-90
MSI K8N Neo2 Plat. | 2x512mb Hynix BT-D43
200gb Seagatel | ATI AIW x800 xt | SB Audigy Gamer

Lestat
07-26-2005, 06:33 AM
sideeffect can you post a link to the Build that you have cuz the one i downloaded right off their download section doesnt include the NEO2.

I can't understand why they would lower the voltages even further. thats just well.. i wont say it. Only true reason for it would be stability issues with higher voltages so they forced people to keep them down to see if the issues go away. then raise them in the next version to see if they come back or not.
or quite possible pressure from AMD cuz people are frying chips from over volting them.

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 06:47 AM
Im using version 529 you update to it by holding down ctrl while clicking the update button within systool. Neo 2 was added in build 505 I dont see why u wouldnt see it. Its labeled MSI K8N Neo 2.

Sleepy Samurai use systool to monitor system. The northbridge fan doesnt make any noise for me but other people have also complained about that whining. You can try using Speedfan (http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php) to limit the speed slightly and it might take the noise away.

What memory chips are on that ocz memory because it really depends on the chips. If its samsung TCCD you should do pretty well with overclocking.

If it is TCCD when you get the memory download and use 1.8rev3 NFM bios set cas =2.5 trcd=3 trp =3 drive stength to weak and HTT multi to 3x and raise Htt till you max out. You might want to set a low cpu multi first so that your cpu doesnt reach its limit.

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 06:55 AM
I can't understand why they would lower the voltages even further. thats just well.. i wont say it. Only true reason for it would be stability issues with higher voltages so they forced people to keep them down to see if the issues go away. then raise them in the next version to see if they come back or not.
or quite possible pressure from AMD cuz people are frying chips from over volting them.

Yes possibly to keep it more stable i did notice a much more stable voltage reading when i ran 1.425 +10 percent rather than 1.45 + 10 percent. I doupt its pressure from AMD as the DFI boards and a lot of others go much higher than 1.65 volts.

Lestat
07-26-2005, 07:03 AM
yeah the AMD comment was just a passing thought.

and update ? hhmm guess i better look for that button lol. yup it works. Thanks!

the download page only offers 0.1 Build 496 too bad the northbridge temps dont work but you always get those temp readings when there is a sensor reader there but no sensor...
sort of like mobo's that have a 3rd or 4th system fan plug but no way to control the fan. It will show whacky fan speeds.

Would you ahve a theory why Prime fails totally at the speeds im at but everything else, benchmarks and games and such work just fine without a single reboot or lock up ? Is prime just that more discreet on the cpu ? where as those other things arent ?
For me a huge test of my memory atleast is Newsleecher. If my ram and sometimes cpu are pushed to far it will download items and they will be checked as bad. but the minute i lower my clocks and redownlaod them they check as good. The program is very ram intensive using anywhere from 100-500+ megs of ram.. and since it is handling and converting binaries... well.... you can see how ram that is pushed to hard might cause bad headers or articles when they really arent bad. (just like memory errors in memtest)

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 07:10 AM
For those having problems with high memory mhz and htt all i can say is you need to spend a lot of time messing with every setting to reach the max speeds.

It took me weeks of trying every setting with a64 tweaker before i got anywhere near the 275 im at now. And also the voltage of the memory plays into it as well.

These are settings that finally proved stable for my Crucial Ballistix but only at 2.65 volts.

http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios//mem.jpg

The settings that really effected stability were Trfc any other setting but 18 would cause crashes. Tras any setting higher or lower than 8 was a no go also. Trc also 13 was the sweet spot. And lastly read preamble at high HTT 5.0 was the best setting and allowed an extra few mhz.

Lestat
07-26-2005, 07:16 AM
i do believe he means OCZ VX there is no GX and the VX stuff is all Winbond UTT

its gunna take about 3.6v to get that memory up to 260mhz and it will run 2-2-2-5 but even at 3.6v the VX stuff has typically shown that it doesnt go much higher. some have gone slightly higher but its UTT not BH-5

you wanna spend a few extra bucks for some seriously high performance high voltage low latency ram go get some of the Mushkin Redline PC4000 its 196 at newegg and that stuff will pump 270-275 2-2-2-5 at around 3.6v and 300+ on a 166mhz Divider

Im trying to sell my gig OCZ PC4000 El Gold Rev 2 so i can get some redline. ($150 bucks for anyone whos interested) she just needs more volts than the neo2 can provide to go higher than 265


Sideeffect -

with those loose timings what your HTT mhz ?

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 07:17 AM
yeah the AMD comment was just a passing thought.

and update ? hhmm guess i better look for that button lol. yup it works. Thanks!

the download page only offers 0.1 Build 496 too bad the northbridge temps dont work but you always get those temp readings when there is a sensor reader there but no sensor...
sort of like mobo's that have a 3rd or 4th system fan plug but no way to control the fan. It will show whacky fan speeds.

Would you ahve a theory why Prime fails totally at the speeds im at but everything else, benchmarks and games and such work just fine without a single reboot or lock up ? Is prime just that more discreet on the cpu ? where as those other things arent ?
For me a huge test of my memory atleast is Newsleecher. If my ram and sometimes cpu are pushed to far it will download items and they will be checked as bad. but the minute i lower my clocks and redownlaod them they check as good. The program is very ram intensive using anywhere from 100-500+ megs of ram.. and since it is handling and converting binaries... well.... you can see how ram that is pushed to hard might cause bad headers or articles when they really arent bad. (just like memory errors in memtest)


Well i spent ages working on prime and now i dont use it anymore since i read a thread about a software bug within it causing problems with newer a64 cpus. Like sometimes for me it would run 6 hours without a error other times it would run 1 hour. That was with my old ram though that did prove to be slightly faulty :). The main reason I dont bother with prime now is because if it crashes after 6 or 7 hours then you have to change 1 little setting then its stable again for maybe the same amount of time and i cant be bothered to do so much testing as i use my pc to much.

As long as my pc never crashes during games like far cry and doom3 etc then im happy. I dont have any Important calcalations that need doing with pin point accuracy with the results of which would decide the future outcome of the world as we know it. If i did i would use stock speeds and maybe not a intel or amd and definitely not microsoft xp :p:

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 07:22 AM
BTW about systool make sure you hold down control when u click the update button and if its not showing new versions completly uninstall it and restart then get the newer version and try again.

Lestat
07-26-2005, 07:33 AM
yup its updated and working
and yes voltages are pretty accurate even the 3.3 and 12v http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_68.gif
sure wish there was a memory voltage sensor
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_63.gif

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 07:39 AM
Yes me to at first i thought there was one because of the way corecenter works showing the voltage but now i think thats not a measurment but a setting from the bios and thats why the vcore shows the wrong setting as well where as the reading is correct.

You could solder or grip a wire from the vddr measuring point and link it to a lcd screen and mount it on the front of the case if you were really bored :rolleyes:

Lestat
07-26-2005, 09:15 AM
ahh but then its about finding an LCD with the proper sensor in it to understand the signal.

but yeah i thought about getting one of those. I have the SuperFlower Fan/Temp controller and its a sweet piece of hardware but it doesnt have any voltage monitoring.
Now the Digidoc 5 i put in the girlfriends system has voltage, temp and fan monitoring but no way to control the fan speeds.....
i cant win for lose can i ?

I wonder,,,, hhmmm...... could on look around ebay for some old passive voltage gauges and use those. as long as you could verify that that the voltage reading they show is accurate. say compare it with a DMM
that would be nifty...

more modding i dont have the workspace for http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_2_49.gif

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 09:26 AM
hmm that Digidoc 5 sounds cool. You could make your own switches to control the fan speeds separately like 5volt to 7 volt to 12 volt switches. yellow to black, yellow to red, red to black.

If you find something cheap that works let me know cause i might consider it to :)

uniacid
07-26-2005, 09:29 AM
Hi guys Systool (http://www.techpowerup.com/systool/) has been updated to allow exporting to 3rd party apps so you can now make your own motherboard monitors for neo 2 that actually show the right +12v and +3.3v rails. MBM and speedfan and most other tools dont show the correct reading for the neo 2. Systool does though so try it out if you havnt already.

Heres mine :p:
http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios//monitor.jpg

hey side would it be possible to get that skin/config off ya?

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 09:49 AM
Yes i can send u the skin config and u can just change it to what u like. once u loaded it in sumurize you will be able to see what i did easier and make a better one im sure :)

Link to download (http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios//put%20these%20files%20in%20C-Program%20Files-Samurize-Configs.zip)

You will need to put all the files in C:\Program Files\Samurize\Configs for the pictures to work properly.

Edit - the samurize plugin works by detecting the available sensors enabled by systool and then aloting them a number. When you disable or enable different plugins in systool it changes these numbers to a different value. My numbers are based off cpuload.dll, hddtemp.ddl, lm78.dll, memory.dll and nvsensors.dll being enabled only. Also i have 2 hardrives so if you only have 1 it will change the numbering also.

Hoot
07-26-2005, 09:57 AM
If you rely upon an onboard voltage monitoring device, you will always be getting a subjective voltage reading. Pick up a Digital Panel Meter from a surplus house like MPJA and hard wire it. They have a .05% accurate unit for $18.95. To put that int perspective, Measure 2.70 Vdimm would range from 2.699-2.701. One of those and a rotary switch to select between Vcore, Vdimm, Vagp and LDT/Chipset voltages will take care of being at the mercy of bios and application variances.

You can fit the DPM and rotary switch in a drive bay knockout. Worse case would be to mount some banana jacks on a drive bay knockout, wired to the above-mentioned voltages and plug into your Digital MultiMeter. Every overclocking enthusiast should have a DMM. They have a million uses, both in the PC and around the house/car.

Hoot

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 10:07 AM
Thanks hoot going to try and find one in the uk.

something like this ? Link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=7532362784&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

uniacid
07-26-2005, 10:18 AM
hmm how exactly do I use the systool plugins in samurize? I copied the dll's over to samurize but when I try to load them it says "incompatible DLL"

Lestat
07-26-2005, 10:23 AM
that would work but it looks to be AC only no ac/dc

i couldnt agree more about having a meter but the issue with having one is knowing where on the various mobo's out there to test voltages. the popular boards can be found via google searches but the other ones would probably have to have a schematic emailed ot you via the mobo mfg'r
What i was actually thinking about doing the other day was similar to what Sideeffect said and simply solder a wire on the check points and then instead of a meter in a cdrom bay just run the wires up to the bay cover and drill a few small holes and mount female plugs there.. of course having the wires soldered to them along with a Ground. that way you can just grab your meter and test them any time you want instead of what i do which is lay on the floor with a flashlight in my mouth trying to see and maneuver thru my psu wires and other hardware. Same for a molex which with my OCZ Powerstream 600 i have a few extra of you could even mount a molex there to do tests of the psu under full load.

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 11:31 AM
hmm how exactly do I use the systool plugins in samurize? I copied the dll's over to samurize but when I try to load them it says "incompatible DLL"

Maybe you have the wrong version of samurize? try 1.62

uniacid
07-26-2005, 11:36 AM
gettin 1.62, I had 1.61 since the samurize site it down, didn't know which was latest

uniacid
07-26-2005, 01:28 PM
ok I tried 1.62 of samurize and it still says incompatible dll

any ideas? would it be possible to send me your whole samurize dir or tell me if theres any other options you used?

sideeffect
07-26-2005, 02:32 PM
Nope i just put SystoolSamurize.dll in the plugins directory of samurize. And it works. If it doesnt work for you then either the plugin you have is corrupted. Your not putting it in the right plugins folder. Or samurize didint install properly pehaps.

You are using windows right? Not that i think this is just for windows im not sure but it could be. Im not really an expert on samurize so pehaps ask at their forum if you cant get it working or contact the maker of the plugin in systool forum.

Hope you get it working :)

Lestat
07-26-2005, 04:18 PM
where is this systoolsamurize.dll ? that would explain why its not working

since the samurize webiste is down can you give us the dll ?

the cpu speed is showing but its wrong,

Lestat
07-26-2005, 05:34 PM
incase no one noticed a brand new version of Core Center Digi Cell and PC Alert were released today
and something called V Center was released on the 11th.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/software/swr/spt_swr_list.php?kind=1

Hoot
07-26-2005, 06:28 PM
Thanks hoot going to try and find one in the uk.

something like this ? Link (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4660&item=7532362784&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

With all due respect, I would not get that one. It is scaled for measuring rather high voltage. Also, be leary of DPMs where they specify the resolution, but not the accuracy percentile. This one sports a resolution of 1V at 600V. That means it can tell the difference between 600 and 601 or 599, but no reference to how accurate that actula voltage reading is. I'm sure the UK has surplus houses like Alltronics, MPJA, Surplus Sales, etc. also. Just a matter of finding the right site. If you know of a neighbor who is an Amateur Radio enthusiast, ask them. They always have the scoop on stuff like that. I know, I've been one since 1971. :)

You can't hurt a motherboard by simply probing points to determine where to get voltage readings as long as you don't slip and short out two adjacent conductors. Missing electrolytic capacitors are alwyas a good starting point as they are usually situated after the PWM circuitry and often close enough to the destination so as to give an accurate reading.

A lot of people make the mistake of using any point on the chassis as their meters return path (minus lead). That is not a good practice and the accuracy of the reading can be compromised. The more current the particular voltage you are looking at is drawing, the worse the error will be the further you have the probes from the load when taking a reading. You can thank Mr. Kirchoff for quantifying that phenomenon (Kirchoff's Loop Law).

Hoot

Lestat
07-26-2005, 07:11 PM
Hoot what do you recommend for a good common.... common ground...... ?
i have a spot sanded on the inside of my case that i clip the ground alligator clip to.

We all know or hope we know that grounding as close to the point of power or the device its self is best and that wiggling a ground can result in varied readings. and that a ground on the mobo itself is the bes tbut to say a nice little spot , one like mine that i sanded isnt good enough ? or MAY not be good enough ? i disagree.
sure if you just go slapping a ground any 'ol where yeah thats not smart. but a nice little sanded spot (to help with conductivity) on the side of the case, would suffice wouldnt you agree ? Especially since no motherboard out there can regulate the voltages with any sort of control or accuracy.
floating voltages is a hardware issue of motherboards that cant be fixed bu grounding properly or using a different positive lead on the mobo.
maybe someday when mobo makers start using GOOD voltage hardware including Caps and other regulatory devices then maybe we can get good voltages.
which by the way it still baffles me why mobo makers still use the same crappy hardware year after year when other boards have proven to have severely flawed voltage regulators.

anywho.. your electrical expertice is so much appreciated by all of us and your expertice in PC electronics is one thats hard to find. I say you start a website or some how to's with pictures for various common needs of the overclocker. voltages readings proper testing, proper equipment, pictures of where to test for those mobo's you have used.
proper setup of temp and voltage probes.

I for one would dearly love to know how to get good temp readings with this Venice. I got to used to my CG Clawhammer that of course was a mobile chip without the heatspread so i stuck a probe right smack dab on the side of the die. you cant do this with these chips... :( so im a little lost on what to do. your little mod with the onboard temp probe is a peachy keen idea to me and id love to see some pictures and a "how to" on how to do it.
My super flower temp monitor is simply going to waste right now... it has 4 temp probes and i am not using a single on. Although tommorrow im going to put on on the Northbridge chipset.
and before i forget,, did i hear correctly that MSI has these northbridge HSF epoxied on ? is this true or was that another mobo. ?
I imagine Radio Shack has Epoxy for the sinks i have for various spots on the mobo but last time i went in there asking for a Solder Pen they had no bloody clue what i was talking about.

edit
i wonder how well jbweld transfers heat and if it will have a chemical reaction and hurt anything i stick it to... lol just kidding i would never jbweld anything liek that lol... although it is a thought.....hhhmmmm O_o

harpyboy
07-26-2005, 07:55 PM
incase no one noticed a brand new version of Core Center Digi Cell and PC Alert were released today
and something called V Center was released on the 11th.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/software/swr/spt_swr_list.php?kind=1

v-center thinggy.... tells me my mobo isn't support..

yes hoot tell us where is a good grounding point on the neo2...

Lestat
07-26-2005, 08:18 PM
yeah if you look at the supported mobo list i believe its nforce4 and 775 boards.

nothing new in corecenter for this board must have been stuff for nf4 boards.

but its still the only tool that will allow me to go up to 1.7v and higher. the bios no matter what i choose stops all voltages at 1.65v *yawn* oh well...


oh yeah has anyone had any issues booting with 2x HTT multi ? i cant i have no idea why but i cant... it just wont boot.

Hoot
07-26-2005, 08:49 PM
Hoot what do you recommend for a good common.... common ground...... ?
i have a spot sanded on the inside of my case that i clip the ground alligator clip to.

We all know or hope we know that grounding as close to the point of power or the device its self is best and that wiggling a ground can result in varied readings. and that a ground on the mobo itself is the bes tbut to say a nice little spot , one like mine that i sanded isnt good enough ? or MAY not be good enough ? i disagree.
sure if you just go slapping a ground any 'ol where yeah thats not smart. but a nice little sanded spot (to help with conductivity) on the side of the case, would suffice wouldnt you agree ?...snip

Regarding the best place to get your return. As you said, close as possible to the load. Even though the chassis is grounded through 9 or 10 standoffs to the board ground plane, minute amounts of resistance (milliohms), in the presence of large current flow, can cause voltage drops. I'll give you an example. Running Prime95 Torture Large FFTs, I took Vcore reading from different ground points and this is what I got:

DMM (Fluke 189) plus lead attached right next to the CPU socket on the missing capacitor + solder pad. Minus lead placed at the following locations:

Bare spot on chassis floor = 1.582V
Black wire at the ATX connector = 1.575V
Black wire right where it first emerges from the PSU: 1.567V
Minus pad at the capacitor where plus lead is attached = 1.570
Minus pad on a missing capacitor at the other end of the motherboard = 1.564

As you can see, the subtle variances in ground current effects DMM readings. Admittedly, the difference in readings can be small as long as the point is somewhere on the motherboard. The closer to the load, the better.

When I used to glue strip thermistors onto my CPU cores, in the days before the thermal diode, I used Arctic Silver epoxy and as little between the thermistor and the core as possible. Naturally, with an IHS over the core, external probes are worse than the so-so accuracy that the Winbond 83627 in my honest opinion.

The MCP heatsink is not epoxied to the chip. The TIM between them is just ornery. Heat up the heatsink with a heatgun and workit slowly in a gentle twisting back-and-forth pattern until you feel it start to give.

Off to bed now. 5AM comes early.

Hoot

Lestat
07-27-2005, 05:32 AM
thanks hoot.

as for your various voltages i think your aware that those readings are almost identicle to the the crapy floating voltages of this mobo. and other mobo's for that matter. I just want a product that matches its pricetag. one that actually regulates voltages. one that actually reads temps properly, which friends is a VERY VERY rudamentary electrical thing to do and yet we still pay up to 200 dollars for a mobo that can not do either very well.
anyways we all agree that grounding closest to the positive testing point is best.

and sorry for my lack of knowledge of terms but TIM by that do you mean the thermal tape they use on the back of northbridge and south bridge chips ?

as for epoxy on the cpu itself, no way i want to be able to RMA this chip if anything ever happens lol.
personally i have 2 types of probes. one is thing and has the gold colored tape surrounding the probe. the other has a bubble of ceramic or epoxy covering the tip of the probe. the 2nd type dont use. the first type is my probe of choice as its thin and more accurate in my eyes.

Sleepy Samurai
07-27-2005, 06:56 AM
i do believe he means OCZ VX there is no GX and the VX stuff is all Winbond UTT

its gunna take about 3.6v to get that memory up to 260mhz and it will run 2-2-2-5 but even at 3.6v the VX stuff has typically shown that it doesnt go much higher. some have gone slightly higher but its UTT not BH-5

you wanna spend a few extra bucks for some seriously high performance high voltage low latency ram go get some of the Mushkin Redline PC4000 its 196 at newegg and that stuff will pump 270-275 2-2-2-5 at around 3.6v and 300+ on a 166mhz Divider

The ram is GX (gamer extreme) although it is almost the same as VX. It is garrented to 3.1V ± 5% instead of 3.5V ± 5%.

I could also get TWINX1024-3200XL / DDR-400 (XMS-3200XL) / 2-2-2-5 but the LCD display maybe in the way of my HSF, an XP-90.

I have not tested the OCZ GX as I am testing some Hynix BT-D43 2x 512mb (selling them if any one is interested.)

My computer topped out at 285 fsb.

With the hynix at 240fsb 3-4-4-8 2T@2.75v. My CPU can do 2.25GHZ no problem and my ram can do 250fsb but put them together and it crashes.

Lestat
07-27-2005, 08:13 AM
yeah i looked up the GX stuff some get 250mhz 2-2-2-5 with 3.1v but not much more than that. its shown as a gamers ram since it has low timings which does indeed help but some reviews said its not the overclockers ram.. although 250mhz 2-2-2-5 at 3.1v seems pretty darn good to me. not sure how much higher it goes or what ram chips it has but with those volts its either UTT or the new BH-5 (which is not the UTT chips btw)

Hoot
07-27-2005, 12:06 PM
thanks hoot.

as for your various voltages i think your aware that those readings are almost identicle to the the crapy floating voltages of this mobo. and other mobo's for that matter. I just want a product that matches its pricetag. one that actually regulates voltages. one that actually reads temps properly, which friends is a VERY VERY rudamentary electrical thing to do and yet we still pay up to 200 dollars for a mobo that can not do either very well.
anyways we all agree that grounding closest to the positive testing point is best.

and sorry for my lack of knowledge of terms but TIM by that do you mean the thermal tape they use on the back of northbridge and south bridge chips ?

as for epoxy on the cpu itself, no way i want to be able to RMA this chip if anything ever happens lol.
personally i have 2 types of probes. one is thing and has the gold colored tape surrounding the probe. the other has a bubble of ceramic or epoxy covering the tip of the probe. the 2nd type dont use. the first type is my probe of choice as its thin and more accurate in my eyes.


1) Yeah, the voltages read all fall within the likelihood of what you might see using the onboard chip. The difference is you can trust what you read with the DMM, though often they only miss one another by a few hundredths of a volt.

2) Tthermal Interface Material. Which can mean Tape, Arctic Silver, Zinc Oxide, whatever. In the case of most motherboards, they use an easy to apply tape type material, but some use zinc oxide. Whatever they use, some are more prone to becoming adhesive in nature even when they are not old. Tape types fall into that category since they rely upon the device heating enough to melt them into place. Kind of like casein based "hot glue" but more thermally conductive.

3) I did some extensive study of the strip thermistors some time ago and published a good article at Overclockers.com. It may still be in their archives of older articles. The most important part of implementing them is removing the capton (yellow plastic) at the tip so that the actual thermistor is exposed. Otherwise the tape acts as a thermal insulator to a certain extent. I found three pictures in at my ftp site form that article, detailing the preparation and mounting of the strip thermistor. Here they are:
http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/digitemp/trim1.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/digitemp/trim2.jpg
http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/digitemp/trim3.jpg

Hoot

sideeffect
07-27-2005, 01:00 PM
Hoot what was that new bios like?

And to do that thermistors mod you would have to remove the heatspreader which im not so keen on doing. But i do have spare inputs for temperature reading for a thermistor on my vapochill so maybe in the future ill consider it. Thanks for the pics.

Lestat
07-27-2005, 01:23 PM
hoot -

dear god dont tell me that that thermistor is soldered to that chip cuz it looks exactly like a drop of solder was dropped on that and then its resting against the die. i mean how utterly foolish can one be ? hot solder sat down on the tip of a thermistor resting right against the silicon ? so much for the resin that covers the cpu die. i hope thats just silver epoxy.

and my super flower will not function with a thermistor that is exposed there is such a delicate amount of stuff that joins the tip of that thing. i already have one that i had to throw away as it got caught on something and tore just a tiny piece of the head of the thermistor tape open and exposed the metal tip and now the alarm goes off everytime i plug it in..
same thing for thermistors that im not using they will randomly throw up an alarm. and especially if they touch the side of the case or something another alarm..
there are times when i touch the tip and the alarm goes off and its not a temp alarm its something like a short alarm or sensor alarm thats not heat related.

again i paid for a warrenty that i dont intend to void by epoxying things on the chip no way no how...
temps on the venice are the least of my concerns they run nice and cool on water even at 1.7v its still 30-33 idle and 44-47 load.

toledo
07-27-2005, 01:30 PM
Hi Guys . I new here , first post :D

Does anyone know what has been changed in those last modded bios (v.1.a3mod and v.1.a) ? :confused:

The link :http://www.lejabeach.com/MSIK8N/k8nneo2.html

Thanks

Lestat
07-27-2005, 01:45 PM
im not even gunna go into that bios,,, its junk just like 1.9

USB issues,,, Temp issues,, RAID issues.... need i go on. also the voltages are limited to 1.6v as was stated here earlier unless they were raised in this release....
They need to go back to 1.8 and rework 1.8 instead of taking 1.9 and messing things up even worse. 1.8 kicks butt... and could do more if they really wanted it to.... but MSI wont.. they will just keep making things worse.

and its all in german lol... go use Babelfish and translate things and see if you can understand whats going on.

toledo
07-27-2005, 01:57 PM
im not even gunna go into that bios,,, its junk just like 1.9

USB issues,,, Temp issues,, RAID issues.... need i go on. also the voltages are limited to 1.6v as was stated here earlier unless they were raised in this release....
They need to go back to 1.8 and rework 1.8 instead of taking 1.9 and messing things up even worse. 1.8 kicks butt... and could do more if they really wanted it to.... but MSI wont.. they will just keep making things worse.

and its all in german lol... go use Babelfish and translate things and see if you can understand whats going on.


Ok . Seems to me that 1.8 1T moded is the best option so far . Witch one are you using ? I didn`t know that 1.9x is crap .... :(

Hoot
07-27-2005, 02:15 PM
hoot -

dear god dont tell me that that thermistor is soldered to that chip cuz it looks exactly like a drop of solder was dropped on that and then its resting against the die. i mean how utterly foolish can one be ? hot solder sat down on the tip of a thermistor resting right against the silicon ? so much for the resin that covers the cpu die. i hope thats just silver epoxy.

and my super flower will not function with a thermistor that is exposed there is such a delicate amount of stuff that joins the tip of that thing. i already have one that i had to throw away as it got caught on something and tore just a tiny piece of the head of the thermistor tape open and exposed the metal tip and now the alarm goes off everytime i plug it in..
same thing for thermistors that im not using they will randomly throw up an alarm. and especially if they touch the side of the case or something another alarm..
there are times when i touch the tip and the alarm goes off and its not a temp alarm its something like a short alarm or sensor alarm thats not heat related.

again i paid for a warrenty that i dont intend to void by epoxying things on the chip no way no how...
temps on the venice are the least of my concerns they run nice and cool on water even at 1.7v its still 30-33 idle and 44-47 load.


Naw, that's not solder, it Arctic Silver epoxy. The thermistor is mounted so that the active thermistor component on the end barely touches the edge of the core, but flatness is maintained such that it is not higher than the core. That way, it does not touch the face of the heatsink. If you look closely, you'll see the CPU in the picture is a 1.0 Mhz Tbird. That should give you an idea of the age of the pictures. If you look at one of those thermistors under a stereo microscope, you'll see it consists of two plates with a resistive material between them, just like an SMD resistor or capacitor, except it has leads attached to each plate. As long as you don't short the two plates together by having them touch a conductive material, it'll work fine. That's the beauty of AS epoxy. It's non-conductive. An issue that arises from exposing the active component inside the capton tape is the fact that is is a fairly fragile component. Without the tape to protect it, you have to be very mindful not to crush it between two things. It crumbles almost as easy as a piece of Grape Nuts cereal. Having the device actually touch the part you are interested in seeing the temperature of insures as efficient a transfer of heat to it as possible. As for IHS' (Integral Heat Spreaders) are concerned. They exist for one reason. To keep inept owners from damaging the core. No other reason. They add a layer of thermal resistance between the core and the heatsink that only serves to decrease the thermal transfer efficiency and as such, I remove them from any CPU I buy that has one. Admittedly, not until I'm satisfied that the CPU is not defective and meets the manufacturers specified standards. I do not RMA parts just because they don't overclock well. That is dishonest. I do RMA parts that fail under warranty or do not meet the manufacturers specified standards. Bogus RMA costs are passed along to us the consumers one way or another. Just like insurance fraud. I had my SD for about a week before I removed the IHS. There is a thread at ocforums about the endeavor. My temps dropped substantially after I did so because AMD pooched the IHS mounting job. Normally, it only buys you about 1-2C at idle and ~5C under load, but that 5C could be what's holding you from the next step up in an overclock.

Hoot

Edit: I almost forgot. The 1A3 bios still has flaws. One of them is the fact that as you work up an overclock, only restarting between steps, you'll find a stable overclock, only to discover that if you turn the PC totally off for a while, it won't pass POST. This does not happen if you don't overclock too far apparently.

sideeffect
07-27-2005, 02:24 PM
Yes i would have considered removing the heatspreader if they had messed up the contact but mine has pretty good contact as the temperatures are consistent with what the vapo shows.

Also mounting a vapochill on a chip with no heatspreader is an accident waiting to happen :)

Worst thing i ever had to do was mount a vapo on a socket A cpu and was so pleased that these new chips have some kind of protection.

Yes I agree they should have continued with the 1.8 bios for the venice and san diego cpus. Because they work best with it. They only needed the new bios for the dual core cpus. They made us poor san diego uses wait for ages for a bios just to fix the 1T issue that could surely have been fixed quicker.

I havnt tried the v.1.a3. But like Lestat i found the 1.9 bios versions to be not as good as the 1.8. The best version of the 1.8 for a san diego is the NFM rev 3 1t mod version.

Lestat
07-27-2005, 02:49 PM
i cant recall if im using the 1T mod or the regular Rev3 ,,, hhmm i dont run 2T anyways no matter what,, its way way too large of a loss in memory performance. you ahve to overclock too high to make up for the loss.

and yes my CG Clawhammer had the thermistor smack up against the side of the die so i loved the accuracy but ugh dang heat spreaders id remove mine but i cant afford to replace this chip if it goes bad down the road, nor replace it if the heatspreader removal goes bad.

your mod with hooking a thermistor to the onboard temp gague is something id like to know more about is there any reference for this mod ?
although id have to start using the no temp modded bios's ...

h4nc0
07-27-2005, 04:14 PM
Edit: I almost forgot. The 1A3 bios still has flaws. One of them is the fact that as you work up an overclock, only restarting between steps, you'll find a stable overclock, only to discover that if you turn the PC totally off for a while, it won't pass POST. This does not happen if you don't overclock too far apparently.

Yeah, this BIOS also seems to be a bit wacky when overclocking. Clockgen set 2.6 and 2.7ghz runs prime-stable, but once BIOS set, it won't boot Windows. :slapass:

I've been following the German MSI forum, but I feel like I am completely ignored. :(

sideeffect
07-27-2005, 04:39 PM
If you post in english they will ignore you. Even though they understand what your saying. If you post in bad german they'll tell you to post in English :)

Lestat
07-27-2005, 08:48 PM
well murdok will reply in english but not very often. only if enough people talk in english hoot and i have asked in english and they have replied in english just not very much.


and yes if you set the bios to lets say 250mhz it wont boot into windows but you can set it to like 260 270 with clockgen and its fine.
the bios really has some issues...

SNIPoR
07-28-2005, 05:00 AM
yo guys . from where i can measure the 3.3v in my mobo??

Sleepy Samurai
07-28-2005, 06:57 AM
and yes if you set the bios to lets say 250mhz it wont boot into windows but you can set it to like 260 270 with clockgen and its fine.
the bios really has some issues...

Don't know if it makes a difference but I have the same problem with BIOS 1.8 250 is unstable.

Would 255 work?

Hoot
07-28-2005, 11:04 AM
yo guys . from where i can measure the 3.3v in my mobo??

There's two convenient places. I'm at work, so I can't give you a picture, but look right next to the ATX connector. There is a missing electrolytic capacitor, though its location is silk-screened on the board as a circle that is half-shaded in white. I believe you can read it there. Also, right next to the SATA3/4 connectors is another missing electrolytic capacitor. I also believe you can measure it there.

Hoot

Hoot
07-28-2005, 11:07 AM
Don't know if it makes a difference but I have the same problem with BIOS 1.8 250 is unstable.

Would 255 work?

that's interesting. I only see that issue using 1.9x and 1A3 bioses. Either 9,10,or 11X250 1:1 runs stable for me using 1.80 bios. These NF3 Ultra boards are a walking contradiction. :)

Hoot

Lestat
07-28-2005, 11:23 AM
just look in the bios under pc health thats a pretty accurate reading from what i can tell.

and thats hynix ram so 250mhz might not work for that ram are you also upping the voltage and cas timings on the ram ?

what brand and speed of ram is it ?

harpyboy
07-29-2005, 01:10 AM
im using 1.8 rite now ... all non-0.5 multiplier works fine for me as well.... 9...10..

finally got the chance to try out 1.9 official... i can onli say it is worse than the 1.9B5 i previously was running on.... not sure wat the heck happened to MSI tho...

guys.. i just jumped into the sandiego 3700+ for $260 deal on monarch... can't wait to put it onto the Neo2 :))))))))

kasius
07-29-2005, 04:59 AM
What about new 1.9 OFFICIAL??

- Support AMD E6 CPU.
- Support Cool and Quiet funtion.
- Update NVPXE version to 2.12.

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/bi...?UID=607&kind=1

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 05:08 AM
Yes we have tried it and its not as good as 1.8. Not worth it unless you have a dual core cpu.

Lestat
07-29-2005, 09:03 AM
san diego +neo2 = more issues

you will have to run the 1.9 bios in order for it to work properly or use one of the NFM 1.8mod bios with the San diego fix...

if i were you id stay with the 1.8 san diego fix bios... sideeffect can agree with that i think.

harpyboy
07-29-2005, 12:03 PM
hehe... i believe that is the where the fun begins isn't it... im already done and bye with the venice now.

Lestat
07-29-2005, 12:04 PM
more like frustrations instead of fun..... the San diego is the 1meg L2 right ? vs the 512k on the venice ? they more or less are the same cpu though aint they ?

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 03:55 PM
Well it seems to me that the san diego has less issues then the venice. Something to do with the memory controllers. But yes i can confirm the 1.8 with 1t fix is better than the 1.9. I might however be moving to the 1.36 bios as i need more vcore now to get any more out of the cpu.

What we really need is a good bios modder to work on the 1.36 bios to add the 1.8 romsip and the fixes made in that bios. But to keep the higher vcore :p:

Lestat
07-29-2005, 04:29 PM
i heard that a blend of 1.36 and 1.8 would be nice indeed.

Jhya
07-29-2005, 04:43 PM
Well it seems to me that the san diego has less issues then the venice. Something to do with the memory controllers. But yes i can confirm the 1.8 with 1t fix is better than the 1.9. I might however be moving to the 1.36 bios as i need more vcore now to get any more out of the cpu.

What we really need is a good bios modder to work on the 1.36 bios to add the 1.8 romsip and the fixes made in that bios. But to keep the higher vcore :p:

That's a great idea! Hopefully the NVRaid bios gets updated too! Is it possible to merge the nvraid module from 1.8 bios into 1.36b?

nfm
07-29-2005, 04:46 PM
Try "award bios editor" to replace roms inside bios

Lestat
07-29-2005, 05:48 PM
there he is...

how about is NFM... you wanna try merging the good stuff from the 1.36 and the 1.8 to make a super bios ?

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 06:20 PM
Yes its all possible to replace romsips and sata bios versions because its been done before for the DFI lanparty. Hellfire and Merlin from DFI Street were doing it and they made some fantastic bios files.

Unfortunatley i dont know how to do it (to stupid).

But NFM would it be possible for you to add 1T fix to the 1.36 rev3 that you made?

nfm
07-29-2005, 08:04 PM
Here you go sideeffect and others:

Link (http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios/index.php?dir=./need.for.mhz/v1.3B6%20Modded%20BIOS(s)%20with%201T%20fix%20for% 20A64%20San%20Diego%20CPUs)

This is 1T V1.3B6 BIOS for San Diegos only. I updated Nvidia's Raid within BIOS so watch out for this BIOS until it will get confirmed that it is working

Hoot
07-29-2005, 08:18 PM
Well it seems to me that the san diego has less issues then the venice. Something to do with the memory controllers. But yes i can confirm the 1.8 with 1t fix is better than the 1.9. I might however be moving to the 1.36 bios as i need more vcore now to get any more out of the cpu.

What we really need is a good bios modder to work on the 1.36 bios to add the 1.8 romsip and the fixes made in that bios. But to keep the higher vcore :p:

Good Grief, you actually want to throw more that 1.67V at that (not-cheap) San Diego? Even with the Vapochill, I would not do that other than for a brief moment to see how high it would go, then back down as quickly as possible. You can't, in good conscience RMA a chip you damaged from too high a Vcore.

Hoot

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 08:32 PM
Hi Hoot yes i know the dangers of to much vcore and 1.7 volts isnt it. Im running at 1.63 max not 1.67. But i would quite happily push 1.7 volts through the chip with a vapochill. People are using 1.7 volts with air so i dont see your point really. Its not like im trying to run 1.8 or 1.9 threw it.

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 08:33 PM
Thanks for the bios mod NFM. Ill test it out. :cool:

Lestat
07-29-2005, 08:44 PM
Good Grief, you actually want to throw more that 1.67V at that (not-cheap) San Diego? Even with the Vapochill, I would not do that other than for a brief moment to see how high it would go, then back down as quickly as possible. You can't, in good conscience RMA a chip you damaged from too high a Vcore.

Hoot


there is nothing wrong with 1.7v on these chips with good cooling. ESPECIALLY a vapo.... above 1.7 is that dangerzone though....

personally sideeffect you already probably know this but give the chip some time.
After 2 weeks im now stable at 2.75ghz @ 1.65v a week ago it was 2.65ghz and when i got the chip it was only 2.6 @ 1.65 volts.

what i do is not even burn it in... i just up the HTT a bit until it locks up or wont boot then lower a little then just go into windows and run normally for a few days.... if it crashes alot of course lower the HTT more but no need ot really mess with the vcore much.
i actually had to run at 1.7v @ 2.75ghz for like a day before 1.65v was stable.

now mind you Prime95 will not run but it is 1m Pi stable and all games are stable 100% never had a crash yet...
I have a feeling i may even be able to drop the voltages a little bit which i may just do here in a while or this weekend sometime....


SE.. let us know how the 1.36 feels... i personally have to stay with 1.8 cuz no other bios lets me get to 370 HTT for osme reason 1.8 lets me just crank the heck out of the HTT. i love it...

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 08:56 PM
Yes ill let you know soon. The HTT isnt quite so good for me either on the 1.36 but i think it will let me get to 275 ok. Think from last testing it crapped out at 290ish where as 1.8 would keep going.

Yes im not crazy i dont want to kill my cpu but the only problems i have read about are at 1.75 volts + as well. I just need a touch more than the 1.8 can give me (1.63) to fully stabilise the cpu at 3ghz+.

And have been burning in this cpu since i got it maybe a month ago and yes its helping me to. When i first got it anything over 2920mhz would crash with any vcore after a while but now it never crashes. Plays games fine and super pi is fine. Just prime needs a little more vcore.

harpyboy
07-29-2005, 09:04 PM
wow NFM ur the man.....

also i believe 1.7v should be still quite ok ... especially got vaporchill... or even water.... but i myself would settle for the safe 1.6x... this BIOS is really cool.. i can't wait to test it out....

it is said for sandiego onli... . any problems running it with venice here?

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 09:07 PM
No it will work fine for venice as long as your venice will do 1T. It Just forces 1T because san diego's dont have the option in the bios. But if you dont have a spare bios chip dont try it yet because its untested. Ill post back in 30 mins and let you know if it flashes ok.

harpyboy
07-29-2005, 09:29 PM
sure.. thanks a million.. i really appreciate it..

i won't be flashing it until tomoro... hehe.. downloading a chinese movie which i must watch tonite

Lestat
07-29-2005, 09:46 PM
hhmm your only getting 1.63 too huh
even at 1.55v +10% it bounces from 1.63 ~ 1.648

just wish there was a way around this.

so did you already verify that the 1.36 will let you go above that even with a higher VID % ?

on a side note.. i know it sucks but Core Center will let you go as high as you want. in my bios is .1.55 +10% but core center says 1.7 so when i go to 1.75v cpu-z says 1.7-ish with it running at about 1.7 under load.

i guess you could just up the settings in windows with that and clockgen if you really wanted to, although i dont like it,, its just a pain...

but it is nice for testing..

sideeffect
07-29-2005, 09:57 PM
Seems i bent a pin on my spare bios chip so i cant test this bios now....

Yes 1.36 has the higher percentages so allows about another 0.15 volts. I have tested with core center but dont really want to do that every time i boot.

1.45 +10% = 1.63
1.55 doesnt do anything cause maximum is 1.45

Lestat
07-29-2005, 10:46 PM
that voltage control is all in the bios.. VID or % over VID all MSI has to do is unlock the full voltage control and it should work fine.

the chip has no way of stopping the motherboard from giving it more volts other than built in voltage regulation or a signal to the mobo telling it to stop the voltage at 1.63~ 1.65. the % over VID was only a thing MSI and every one are doing cuz they are so :banana::banana::banana::banana:ing stupid and expect everyone to have a calculator in their brain to do %'s.

none of these boards need the % over VID the mobo makers just do that cuz they think its cool... its not.. its totally retarded. just give the stright up voltages.

the bios can be told to ignore the cpu i believe and volt it as high as it wants....
thats what core center is doing, its telling it to ignore the cpu and volt up to 1.7 and 1.75 anyways..

edit -

im so ready for a different mobo with better voltages and vdimm.. ugh....
btw my gig kit of ocz pc4000 is available. 145 usd shipped to your door.
if dfi gets that ultra-D straightened out i think im switching back to dfi. i miss my 250GB.

lysyn
07-30-2005, 02:25 AM
NMF can u make MOD - bios version 1.9 Official (2005-7-12)?

http://www.msi.com.tw/program/support/bios/bos/spt_bos_detail.php?UID=607&kind=1

sideeffect
07-30-2005, 03:19 AM
NFM has made a bios mod of 1.9 official lol.

And Lestat why would every motherboard designer use vid + a percentage if they could just choose a value. Its because AMD has looked the maximum VID to 1.45 like i said.

Maybe its the motherboards fault they cant unlock the cpu higher multis too ..... not.

lysyn
07-30-2005, 03:40 AM
This official 1.9 bios is different than that which was used by NFM.

Bios 1.90 - 08.07.2005
Official 1.90 - 12.07.2005

Lestat
07-30-2005, 06:44 AM
side effect.

the % over VID didnt matter with the winchester and newcastles correct ? maybe it did and i just was never told about why the % is there.
and the % over VID is nothing more than more VID its not saying, "lets sneak an extra 5% voltage in the back door and trick the cpu". thats impossible. its simply upping the voltage more than the 'VID' setting.

they dont need to have the %. Murdok made a bios where he had the % removed and the standard VID showed all voltages all the way to 1.7 and it worked...

i guess i can say ok yes the cpu is locked to not allow more vid than xxx amount. but if thats the case then i dont understand how the % is making the cpu not realise there is more voltage there.... unless the % stage is added in after the CPU VID Check.. which again is impossible in my thinking. the CPU would be constantly aware of what voltages its receiving.

you kind of see what i am saying ?

sideeffect
07-30-2005, 06:53 AM
No the VID does matter with newcastle its just that the maximum set by ~AMD was 1.55 instead of 1.45 because it was a different manufacturing process.

Thats why corecenter shows a reading of 1.7 when u set 1.6 with a 0.9nm cpu.

Didnt try Murdoks bios that used all values instead of percentages the only one I tried had normal method. But if he did do that then he is still using the percentages he just labelled them as values to make it easier for the end user.

Lestat
07-30-2005, 07:26 AM
hhmmm i didnt know the max was 1.55 on the newcastles... interesting.
i figured it was just the mobo makers doing that to prevent massive over volting..

ill have to read up on how the % over VID actually works. id like to know how and at what stages its 'tricking' the cpu. as i just dont see howyou can trick something with a voltage lock to not know there are more volts going into it.

and yeah , his bios was flakey as are most of the ones he does lately.. sorry murdock but your slipping. and yeah i pretty much figured he just renamed the % and removed it then added them under VID but it was still the same thing as using a %.

i dont know somehow i can actually see AMD telling mobo makers,,, "dont you try to bypass or voltage locks cuz if you do,,, your in trouble" or its an actual stipulation from amd when making these boards. lol so they dont do it.

either way thanks for the info.. its rather early for learning especially on a saturday that should be nothing more than a "mindless overclocking with disregards to all limits of your hardware" type of day.http://smilies.sofrayt.com/^/aiw/crazy.gif

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_12_2.gif

Xyus89
07-30-2005, 07:40 AM
hiya,

couple of days ago I wrecked my pc
so I'm going to get a s939 setup (MSI k8n neo2 prolly)
I guess that nobody has any bad experiences with this mobo?
plz reply

xyus

sideeffect
07-30-2005, 07:45 AM
Its not so much tricking the cpu. The cpu is programed to have a maximum of 1.45 volts on the vid so the motherboard manufacturers use that because there is no point not to.

Then the motherboard makers can use percentages to set higher vcores to cpu the cpu doesnt have a limit of 1.45 in the sence of no more voltage can pass threw it. It just wont select more with the VID.

flenser
07-30-2005, 08:06 AM
Xyus

Read the thread. The last 40 pages are people griping about how the latest bios revisions suck and the board doesn't properly support venice, san diego, or the new dual core cpus.

If I was buying today, there's no way in hell I'd get this board. If MSI ever releases a bios rev that's as stable for me as 1.8 (works great for me anyhow) AND properly supports the dual core cpus, then I'd be able to recommend this mobo but so far it's been a bad purchase decision because it's just as much of a technological dead end as a socket 754 mobo would have been.

Hell, if I'd just gotten a 754 mobo instead back when I last upgraded, I'd have saved enough money to buy a new nforce4 socket 939 now to go with a dual core cpu.

Ibn
07-30-2005, 11:16 AM
My Venice works fine in this board with the 1.9 bios, it worked well with the 1.8 bios also, except for 'cool and quiet', which now works in 1.9...

I doubt a lot of these problems people are having are solely the boards fault.

flick
07-30-2005, 11:41 AM
My Neo2 doesn't work with the official bios because of my Prometia. It won't boot and give's the "warning have option rom can not be invoke" message, which is a bios temp problem found way early on. I can't believe they released the bios with this problem. 1.8 doesn't have this problem. I also have AGP problems with any of the 1.9 or 1.A3 bios'. My online gaming in BF1942 Forgotten hope starts to stutter after a couple hours of playing. Then, if I switch to single player mode, the game locks up after loading a map. It doesn't lock the system it just locks the game and I can't get out to the desktop, but I know everything is working because I can hear people in Teamspeak still talking and I can talk to them. Really weird because as soon as I go back to 1.8 everything's fine. I'm using a 4400+ and an X850 XT PE vid card. It's really frustating...stock or overclocked for memory or HT, it doesn't matter. It's definetly a bios problem because everything works right with 1.8, but I can't use the dual core with 1.8 which sucks. :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick:

corruption
07-30-2005, 01:09 PM
I doubt a lot of these problems people are having are solely the boards fault.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Most computer "problems" that I have come accross have been USER problems. Some people on this forum have it set in their head that their chip should hit a certain speed......it is simply the LUCK OF THE DRAW. Sometimes you get a sweet chip and a sweet board, other times you get a lemon. I believe that Lestat should have RMA'd his board a while ago if he is in fact having all the issues that he is. I do doubt that his board has that many problems though.... I'm not going to get into it, but when people without knowledge try to teach others, all you end up with is a bunch of people that don't know anything at all. (The blind leading the blind....."I see, said the deaf man to his dumb wife.) Anyway, that's my rant for today.....I personally have had no problems with this motherboard other than bad software voltage readings. My CPU however is a lemon.....needing 1.6v to hit 2.55GHz.

_root.x
07-30-2005, 01:23 PM
After reading all the replies and trying to figure out what BIOS to use I narrowed it down to three (1.41Mod -1.81t MOD - 1.9 Offcial). After trying all three it found that 1.9 gave me the best overclock/stable performance. The only problem I have now is that after flashing to the 1.9 I can't seem to get my Nvidia Lan working. I have tried to flash back to an early bios but it still will not work. My system is listed below, nothing special but it plays World of Warcraft superb.


A64 3700+ San Diego @ 2750mhz 1.5v
OCZ 1gb 3200 Rev2 Plat 2.5-3-3-5 @ 250mhz
MSi Neo2 Plat 1.9O
Ati x800xtpe


Does anyone have any idea on how I can get nvidia lan working again? I’m using the official Nvidia Chipset drivers.

sideeffect
07-30-2005, 01:48 PM
My Neo2 doesn't work with the official bios because of my Prometia. It won't boot and give's the "warning have option rom can not be invoke" message, which is a bios temp problem found way early on. I can't believe they released the bios with this problem. 1.8 doesn't have this problem. I also have AGP problems with any of the 1.9 or 1.A3 bios'. My online gaming in BF1942 Forgotten hope starts to stutter after a couple hours of playing. Then, if I switch to single player mode, the game locks up after loading a map. It doesn't lock the system it just locks the game and I can't get out to the desktop, but I know everything is working because I can hear people in Teamspeak still talking and I can talk to them. Really weird because as soon as I go back to 1.8 everything's fine. I'm using a 4400+ and an X850 XT PE vid card. It's really frustating...stock or overclocked for memory or HT, it doesn't matter. It's definetly a bios problem because everything works right with 1.8, but I can't use the dual core with 1.8 which sucks. :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick: :brick:


Hi Flick i have the same cold issues thats why We got NFM to make no temp mods of the 1.9 bios. So you can use them. I think Murdok has also started making no temp versions of the bios files he makes to. They stop the temperature showing in bios so the bios will load setup. Temps in windows still work fine :)

Lestat
07-30-2005, 02:41 PM
hhmm interested about the nvlan not working... does the Realtek lan work fine 100% of the time ?
try disabling that.
do not use NVLAN MAC in the bios leave that alone dont even turn it on.
hhmm whatelse.... just combinations of different things i guess.
also try NFM's 1.9 modded bios.

have you contacted MSI about this ?

Lestat
07-30-2005, 03:15 PM
S.E. -

you getting anywhere with your testing of the 1.36 mod NFM did ?
as in overclocking vs 1.8 and overall performance and stability ? oh and did your voltages go higher like you wanted ?

sideeffect
07-30-2005, 04:43 PM
Because i damaged my spare bios chip i havnt tried flashing any bios files yet. Think i might order another spare before i flash again. :stick:

Lestat
07-30-2005, 05:28 PM
oh thats right... you said you only bent the leg of chip did you do a full break on it.

where are you getting the chip from and how much ? i might have to invest in one.

uniacid
07-30-2005, 08:00 PM
Nope i just put SystoolSamurize.dll in the plugins directory of samurize. And it works. If it doesnt work for you then either the plugin you have is corrupted. Your not putting it in the right plugins folder. Or samurize didint install properly pehaps.

You are using windows right? Not that i think this is just for windows im not sure but it could be. Im not really an expert on samurize so pehaps ask at their forum if you cant get it working or contact the maker of the plugin in systool forum.

Hope you get it working :)

hey bro can you post that dll file since I can't find it anywhere

TurboDiv
07-30-2005, 08:21 PM
Any of you experiencing this video card freez for 5 seconds and than resuming of the game ? Any fixes for that yet, i am 99% sure its the NF3 chip and the crappy drivers for it. Thanks

harpyboy
07-30-2005, 08:31 PM
oh thats right... you said you only bent the leg of chip did you do a full break on it.

where are you getting the chip from and how much ? i might have to invest in one.

yeah might be informative to know where to get a bios chip from....


turbodiv:... did u have fast write disable yet?

TurboDiv
07-30-2005, 08:42 PM
long time ago. I have done all those little tweaks about it... I wait for ultimate solution

Lestat
07-30-2005, 08:51 PM
Turbo take it from me or not but i can guarentee you that the card is bad.
The freezing is caused by bad memory on the card. BFG has confirmed this is 100% fact several times with me on the phone and one of them was the Supervisor that i asked to speak with cuz i was on my 3rd 6800 GT with bad memory. He confirmed that the 5 sec stall is caused by bad memory on the cards and ALL 6800 series card makers are aware of this and nvidia is working with them to rectify it. but this was at ATLEAST 10 months ago......
I just got a eVGA 6800 Ultra and it does the same :banana::banana::banana::banana: and im mad as hell... basically most of them will run at stock speeds but any overclocking over stock will cause it to lock for 5 sec's

Lower your overclock on the card and it will go away.... if it does not then the card is REALLY bad...

RMA the card and dont go telling them its overclocked but express to them that its been shown on by several card makers that this issue is indeed bad ram on the cards.

Also be sure to make sure the heatsink screws are tight. If you really want remove the HSF and put some arctic silver on the GPU and ram ,, and of course remove the old white crap they use...

if that dont work just rma it. I went thru 3 6800 GT's before i actually got a good one and when i did wow she would roll at 450/1200 24/7
this ultra of mine starts locking at 435/1150 stock on the eVGA is 425/1100 so i might as well not overclock at all. but this card IS getting rma'd the bad ram may only show during overclocks but it WILL start to show at stock speeds within a month. The ram will start failing.

TurboDiv
07-30-2005, 09:07 PM
My card is one of the first LEadtek 6800s so my warranty is gone. The thing is that i changed 2 motherboard with this video card - DFI NF2 Ultra and now i am on NEo2 platinum and I experienced same thing on both boards. I actually take your explanation as locgical since my card does not overclcok its memory very well. Even at 800 memory i am experiencing red dots in my movies from time to time. The freez happens when i play for a long time usually 3 hours and i get 1 of those. I guess heat might the problem but i already put AS5 in there...

Lestat
07-30-2005, 10:22 PM
the trick is that you dont hear about ATI cards doing this so you know its not the mobo chipset.

are you positive leadtek doesnt have a better warrenty that card is only 2 years old. the 6800's havent been out THAT long.

harpyboy
07-30-2005, 11:45 PM
come to think about it... my 6800U also has this problem... since i BIOS flashed it to 425/1100... summer seems to be too much for it... the freezing went off after i downclock to 400/1000...

sideeffect
07-31-2005, 03:34 AM
Freezing on 6800 cards is a power regulation problem. I get it when i overclock to much. Some things you can do to solve the problem are

* Get a better psu
* Raise vagp voltage to 1.8v
* Raise AGP Frequancy to 81mhz
* Turn off Sideband Addressing ( Costs about 200 points in 3dmark 2005 )

After i Flashed my bios from 1.3 volts stock voltage to 1.4 stock volts my freezing went away also. Now i just got corruption when i overclock to much :p:

Make sure the motherboard isnt set to auto overclock the graphics card in bios !

sideeffect
07-31-2005, 10:06 AM
The plugin for systool and sumarize you can get from Systool website (http://www.techpowerup.com/systool/) in the forum section.

The bios chip im not sure yet i got the last chip from badflash.com but i might look for a cheaper one somewhere. Im also tempted to get a bios savour now instead of a spare chip as it saves swapping chips around all the time.

Xyus89
07-31-2005, 10:40 AM
Hiya guys,

I'm going to get an s939 setup and I'm finding it difficult to chose between:
MSI K8N neo2
&
DFI Ultra-D. (nforce 3)

I had the MSI K8N neo plat but the temp sensors were such crap! it reported 10 degreez to much.

& about DFI, is the 1T timings problem solved, I haven't seen allot of problem threads of this motherbord so I think it's okay? :confused:

So if you owners were to make the choice again of buying an Nforce 3 s939 mobo would you buy the MSI one again?

thx anyway,
xyus

harpyboy
07-31-2005, 11:16 AM
Freezing on 6800 cards is a power regulation problem. I get it when i overclock to much. Some things you can do to solve the problem are

* Get a better psu
* Raise vagp voltage to 1.8v
* Raise AGP Frequancy to 81mhz
* Turn off Sideband Addressing ( Costs about 200 points in 3dmark 2005 )

After i Flashed my bios from 1.3 volts stock voltage to 1.4 stock volts my freezing went away also. Now i just got corruption when i overclock to much :p:

Make sure the motherboard isnt set to auto overclock the graphics card in bios !

maybe.. but mine happened when it gets too hot.. around 75c... everything runs smoothly until it reaches tat temp... then the freezing occurs..... wat i think was... the freezing allows the card to cool down a little.. then it runs again... freeze again... run again... bla bla bla.... my 6800U is running 1.4v from bios....

sideeffect
07-31-2005, 01:05 PM
Hiya guys,

I'm going to get an s939 setup and I'm finding it difficult to chose between:
MSI K8N neo2
&
DFI Ultra-D. (nforce 3)

I had the MSI K8N neo plat but the temp sensors were such crap! it reported 10 degreez to much.

& about DFI, is the 1T timings problem solved, I haven't seen allot of problem threads of this motherbord so I think it's okay? :confused:

So if you owners were to make the choice again of buying an Nforce 3 s939 mobo would you buy the MSI one again?

thx anyway,
xyus


If i was buying now i would get a DFI because its newer and there is a big modding community for DFI with lots of custom bios files to choose from.

But i wouldnt bother switching from a neo 2 because its not really ny better. If i were you id go on price. There are some good bargains to be had on NEO 2's atm so maybe it can save you some money.

TurboDiv
07-31-2005, 01:35 PM
the trick is that you dont hear about ATI cards doing this so you know its not the mobo chipset.

are you positive leadtek doesnt have a better warrenty that card is only 2 years old. the 6800's havent been out THAT long.


Ya but also we dont see that problem that much with the NF4 and PCI-express version of the nvidia chip. Anyways, looks like my next card will be ATI + RDX200 Grouper. :D

Ibn
07-31-2005, 10:02 PM
The few times I have seen the freezing issue on these boards with 6800 cards I was able to simply solve it by turning off Fast Writes. I do that on every box I build now, and nobody has gotton back to me having that issue.

However, I know I can create the same issue by overclocking the gpu on the video card a little to far. I'd try improving the ventilation in the case or just not overclocking the card so much if thats your issue, expecially if turning off fast writes doesnt help ;)

Also, make sure that stupid NVIDIA\ATI speed up thing in the bios is disabled as well, I dont know what idiot decided that the motherboard should screw with the video cards clock, but he should be spanked wherever he is.

Good luck :)

Xyus89
08-01-2005, 01:51 AM
are the temp sensors better than the k8n neo plat (reported 10 degrees to much)

xyus

Lestat
08-01-2005, 06:37 AM
http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?PHPSESSID=b9d3b72e3aa49f3edddb13615908a0 ef&topic=84339.0

nice little discussion about the 1.9 official and the 1.A3 official which looks to be dated 7/22/05

the guy there has a bios he modded to fix the nvmac and usb issues.

go thru and read it, he also tells you how ot fix your nvlan MAC if you flashed and now can NOT us the nvLAN.

just more things to test. i never tried the 1.A3 and i frankly wont be....
until msi comes up with a magic gold plated latnum bios. (yes latnum... ok if your not a Deep Space 9 fan then you wont understand,,, lol) i am sticking with 1.8mod

I also came across an article saturday that briefly said there were discussions that the E series cpu which Venice's are have reduced the kick in the balls you get from 2T.
well its not true,, i lost nearly 1200 points on sandra when going to 2t lol. Maybe its for the X2 cpu's

nealh
08-01-2005, 07:25 AM
Also, make sure that stupid NVIDIA\ATI speed up thing in the bios is disabled as well, I dont know what idiot decided that the motherboard should screw with the video cards clock, but he should be spanked wherever he is.

Good luck :)

I agree 100% :toast:

Lestat
08-01-2005, 07:29 AM
yeah i accidentally left that thing on once and woah i dont know how far it overclocks but it immediately starting throwing artifacts and locking my game.
i couldnt figure out what it was for bout 5 minutes until i realised i had reset the bios and forgot to turn that off.

anyone actually seen how far that overclocks your card ?

nealh
08-01-2005, 08:21 AM
yeah i accidentally left that thing on once and woah i dont know how far it overclocks but it immediately starting throwing artifacts and locking my game.
i couldnt figure out what it was for bout 5 minutes until i realised i had reset the bios and forgot to turn that off.

anyone actually seen how far that overclocks your card ?

I heard 20% somewhere..not sure if that is accurate seems a bit high??

Lestat
08-01-2005, 10:37 AM
well it depends on if its cpu or ram or both.
on an ultra 400/1100 would oc to 480/1100 which i can guarentee you that i have yet to see an ultra run that fast without being volt modded and water cooled or mini prommy as for the ram,,, yeah 20% would be insane and never work.

sideeffect
08-01-2005, 10:56 AM
Its not 20 percent. You can see if you have something running like atitool with a ati card. My set overclock was 418 core and it increased to 432 so its less than 5 percent.

Lestat
08-01-2005, 10:59 AM
ahh
good info.

SE have you tried that 1.A3 bios yet that i saw the fellas talking about at the msi forum.
I cant believe, beta or not that msi would let loose a bios, even internally where it wipes out your nvlan mac. Last one i knew that did this was the Asus K8N-E Deluxe. and Asus got ridiculed horribly for it. And they never even fixed it. We users had to do it ourselves.

sideeffect
08-01-2005, 11:51 AM
I dont know why they released it either because they just had that big issue with someone trying to sue them for a glitchy bios that supposedly killed their equipment.

I havnt tried it yet but im interested too because 166 divdier is supposed to be fully working now for people that were having problems with it. Ill wait for at least the 2nd version of this bios though.

Seems that they started this the day the 1.9 was made official so is it built on from it or have they just started again, again?

Well if they were continuing the 1.9 bios then why is the lan not working and why are there all these raid irq problems.

Starting Again would also be admiting that the 1.9 bios sucks but then i think most of us knew that :)

Ares323
08-01-2005, 12:18 PM
Today MSI and AMD lost a client, since I have A64 I only got trouble and nerves, that`s wont do it anymore. In three years of Intel customer I didn`t knew what the colour of BSOD is, but with AMD I guess it comes bundled. There are so many people here too who have tried there`s best to improve bioses, to give advices to others in "PAIN" but that was not enough without the manufacturers support. I appreciate every one of you for your work and support but I am at the end with my system. I have bought only high end hardware to assure a proper medium for overclocking and to have a stabile system but I with no succes :), what can I say anymore ? I tried the final 1.9 Mod bios and it only works with default settings, not 1 Mhz overclock,I tried every possible settings to my RAM, CPU, voltages, NOTHING, it wont boot. With bios 1.8 mod it goes up to 2.95 Ghz but I hoped in that this official bios finally will be good as it was expected. So, I rather loose some FPS in games and get, I hope, more stability with another brand of CPU. To bad for those AMD CPU`s, they aren`t bad but is a great lack in having a stabile motherboard.

sideeffect
08-01-2005, 12:25 PM
I know its bad but its never bad enough to turn to intel :p:

Lestat
08-01-2005, 12:30 PM
if you have a bios that lets it go to 2.95ghz then why in the hell did you go to 1.9
you obviously didnt read all the horror stories about how terrible 1.9 was.

just reflash back to 1.8 and be happy. Intel 32bit or 64bit will never run as good as a $145 3000+ Venice overclocked to 2.95ghz nope NEVER!!!!

again i ask why go back to intel when you have a 100% working bios with 1.8mod


If you go to intel you will go LGA775 ? then you will probably go DFI or ASUS mobo ? or ABIT. you think you have troubles with 1 or 2 bios from MSI boy you better prepare yourself because there are more issues with those chips and mobo's than any AMD64 board. the only bios you will use on those boards are modded bios's DFI still has problems they cant fix and ASUS and ABIT STILL have issues they havent fixed. It's just the way it is.

i say it again ... if you have a bios that is good for 2.95ghz then wtf are you upgrading to one of the worst bios's msi has ever released ? wth were you thinking ? dont you read the forums ? 1.9 is BAD!!!

Ares323
08-01-2005, 02:09 PM
Hey, chill, I`m still alive and back to 1.8 mod, and my CPu is 3800+ not a 3000+. Nevermind, now I`m chilled, but I dont want anymore of this mobo, NO MORE, I will upgrade and give a last chance to A64 on a DFI motherboard, that means that I must change my X800XT PE also to an PCI-E version, more money for just a chipset upgrade, so called :) This CPU stays in WIN at 1.6 volts @ 3 Ghz but it`s not stable, I just want 3 Ghz :)

sideeffect
08-01-2005, 02:16 PM
Yes maybe MSI didnt lable the 1.9 bios right but its really the first bios for dual core cpus. Its not for single core cpus as its not as good as 1.8.

You dont have to update to a newer bios just because its newer.

Ares323
08-01-2005, 02:20 PM
I just want a bios that supports Venice core, that`s all. I will smash my board in my car service and I will post the pics, hihihihi.

sideeffect
08-01-2005, 02:20 PM
Id be interested if you could post back after you have the New rig setup to see if that cpu that seems limited to under 3ghz like almost all other athlon 64 cpus on 1.6v volts except fx55/57. Id like to know if it magically became stable :p:

Seriously if you look through the threads about the 3800+ and 3700+ 4000+ only a very select few will do 3ghz at any voltage. Its not that the cpus are bad or the motherboards are bad.

Ares323
08-01-2005, 02:24 PM
Hmmm, I`m just mad right now, I tried 1.8 volts also to get it stable at 3 Ghz and that was a no go. 1.8 volts with Core Center. I just dont want to believe that I cant get to 3 Ghz.

sideeffect
08-01-2005, 02:29 PM
1.8 volts :stick:

hope your not on air.

Ares323
08-01-2005, 02:32 PM
Asetek Waterchill, Antarctica and GPU cooler also.

sideeffect
08-01-2005, 02:43 PM
I wouldnt personaly attempt 1.8 volts even with vapochill that i have now. 1.7 at the very most is still risky and should only be attempted if you except the responsibility.

The venice/san diegos dont like voltage like the old newcastles did. They are less stable at higher vcore and anything above 1.65-1.7 doesnt seem to help.

I think you should make the choice of what you want to do now.

*You can search for the best stable clock at under 1.65v with your current parts and relax and enjoy it.

*You could sell the cpu and try and buy a better stepping.

*Or you can buy a new motherboard and hope that its not the cpu limiting you.

Its not worth risking your parts. Good luck with what you decide.

Ares323
08-01-2005, 02:53 PM
It was just for a few minutes 1.8 volts. I`m at 2.7 @ 1.42 volts 24/7 but it`s just the magical 3 Ghz I want, anyway thanks for the cheer up. Good to be here. Thanks.

Lestat
08-01-2005, 03:24 PM
2.7 @ 1.42 is a SWEET overclock dude.. i have to be at 1.65v to get that.

im so mad i didnt get a 3000... these 3200's just dont overclock as good.

4rory
08-01-2005, 07:04 PM
I sapposidaly have a great stepping, and I can only get 3ghz for a superpi1 mill, maybe on another board, with better cooling.

Mrk200
08-02-2005, 09:56 AM
I recently purchased a 3000+ Venice which does 290x9 at 1.45v, but my crappy ram (2x512 of old twinmos ch-5) only goes up to about 220mhz. So I'm stuck running the 133 divider. If I try the 8x multi, I still can't get above 290htt stable (3x ltd) for some reason. It would be nice if I could get to 320x8 with the 133 divider, or have a 150 divider to use for 290x9. I'm currently using the 1.9 official bios. Any suggestions on improving htt?

sideeffect
08-02-2005, 11:02 AM
Boot with the 133 divider and set athlon 64 tweaker to set 150 divider on boot.

Also have you tested Max HTT with the 1.8 bios because for some of us it lets us clock the htt much higher.

Goone
08-02-2005, 11:30 AM
hi guy, just got a new mobo msi neo2 running with venice 3200, question where can i find the bios that would allow me to have more vcore for cpu current running official 1.9 and it only go up to 1.65 max, also my venice cpu sux.
thanks

sideeffect
08-02-2005, 03:07 PM
Here you go sideeffect and others:

Link (http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios/index.php?dir=./need.for.mhz/v1.3B6%20Modded%20BIOS(s)%20with%201T%20fix%20for% 20A64%20San%20Diego%20CPUs)

This is 1T V1.3B6 BIOS for San Diegos only. I updated Nvidia's Raid within BIOS so watch out for this BIOS until it will get confirmed that it is working


Try this Goone Its the 1.36 mod bios which allows up to a maximum of 1.8volts set in bios. Its also been moded to have better ram timings and newer nvidia lan.

Btw as a guide max on air should be 1.6 volts. With water 1.65, vapochill 1.7 and cascade maybe 1.8. Read the venice overclocking thread and you will see how people killed there chips running 1.7 volts on air after a few weeks of running. They just dont like voltage.

Mrk200
08-02-2005, 03:18 PM
Odd...I tried the official 1.8 and 1.8 rev3 bios and 250x8 with 4x ltd and 166 div worked fine, however 260x8, 3x ltd and 133 div wouldn't even post, and these settings work without any issues on the official 1.9 bios.

Goone
08-02-2005, 03:54 PM
Thanks will give it a try, I know not suppose to run over 1.6 volt but my damn venice only max out at 2.45

Lestat
08-02-2005, 04:11 PM
my LBBLE 0515 APAW is only stable up to 2750 1.7v on water.
Pi 1m 2m stable havent tested higher but Prime 95 fails almost immediately. i dont care about prime though all my games run great no lockups.

1.65v - 2.7gh
1.4v - 2.5

just a bad overclocking chip. i thought i had a real good chip when i first got it but its not... its crap... lol

Goone
08-02-2005, 05:24 PM
Lestat, what bios are you using?

Lestat
08-02-2005, 05:48 PM
1.8rev3 by NFM its the ONLY bios that lets be overclock with massive HTT values.
i can get stable with HTT up to 370mhz.

all other bios have horrible problems giving me htt values above 250~275.

voltage is checked on the motherboard. verified with dmm.

i CAN run 2.7ghz @ 1.65 but again prime will crash but Pi and all games and benchmarks run fine so basically i don't even try to use prime anymore.

i am just ready to get out of the NF3 market and into a nice NF4 board.

The chip started out needing 1.65 at 2.6 then 2.65 now 2.7 but i been running 2.7 for ohhh i guess a little less than a week and nothing has changed.
NFM has made a new 1.36 bios i might try that out.. but agin., just something about 1.8rev3 lets me get insane HTT which is cool for running a memory divider.

Jhya
08-02-2005, 06:43 PM
How bout a NFM v1.36b modded bios rev 4 with updated nvraid rom and 1t/2t options? that would make a perfect bios 1.36b.

Lestat
08-02-2005, 06:51 PM
he already has the updated nvraid and 1/2T has always been in the bios.... not sure why your asking for this if you go back a few posts he already has one made .. he gave us a link.

Jhya
08-02-2005, 07:10 PM
he already has the updated nvraid and 1/2T has always been in the bios.... not sure why your asking for this if you go back a few posts he already has one made .. he gave us a link.

That one is 1T fixed for the San Diego. We need a 1T/2T bios so i can run my 4X512MB rams for 2 GB total.

alexgontijo
08-02-2005, 08:52 PM
1.8rev3 by NFM its the ONLY bios that lets be overclock with massive HTT values.
i can get stable with HTT up to 370mhz.



Where can we download it? I'm runing the 1.8mod and its fine, but always trying to get better...

Thks!!

AleX

nfm
08-02-2005, 09:02 PM
http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios/index.php?dir=./need.for.mhz

EDIT: 136 Rev.4 is up, from now on I don't support and mod ANY v1.9 series BIOSes, period. Too many problems. I look forward to mod v2.0 BIOS series if they will be good.

harpyboy
08-02-2005, 09:47 PM
yes NFM.. i do agree not wasting any more time on the 1.9 for the time being...

did anyone see a thread about this guy overclocking a 3800+ x2... it really does look promising.. ... if the new BIOS really supports X2... i might give it a shot for X2

nfm
08-02-2005, 10:21 PM
Yea, his X2 kicks ass, upcoming bios should fully support all cpus, at least that's what i hope

uniacid
08-03-2005, 06:32 AM
I've been away for awhile and haven't been up to date on the bioses lately :o so I'm wondering what would be the best option for me to test out with my FX53

harpyboy
08-03-2005, 07:26 PM
i got my 3700+ SD... came out to be CABGE 0526APAW.. not that a good OCer though. max out at 2.75Mhz same as my venice.... but it does have a better mem controller..... im trying all means now to push it to 2.8ghz with 1.6v...

anyone knows if the 1.36 1T bios works better for SD ?

Lestat
08-03-2005, 07:53 PM
Uniacid get the 1.8 rev 3 modded bios

harpy - stay with the 1.8 with the 1T fix for San diego's unless Sideeffect says his san diego runs good on the 1.36


my LBBLE 0515 APAW 3200+ Venice wont hit 2.8ghz unless i run 1.7v and even then its touchy

i'd have to say if you can see the stepping on your cpu before you buy it dont get the APAW but you will also want to get out the venice stepping thread before you make a choice.

harpyboy
08-03-2005, 08:01 PM
Uniacid get the 1.8 rev 3 modded bios

harpy - stay with the 1.8 with the 1T fix for San diego's unless Sideeffect says his san diego runs good on the 1.36


my LBBLE 0515 APAW 3200+ Venice wont hit 2.8ghz unless i run 1.7v and even then its touchy

i'd have to say if you can see the stepping on your cpu before you buy it dont get the APAW but you will also want to get out the venice stepping thread before you make a choice.


lol... can't really decide on the stepping when u buy online though.. arrghh... oh well guess im stuck with this until i have got enough cash + Neo2 new BIOS to jump on the 3800+X2.......... i really don't have luck when it comes to CPU stepping...

i will try burning in the SD.. see if this myth really works a little

PureBooYah
08-04-2005, 05:02 AM
i got my 3700+ SD... came out to be CABGE 0526APAW.. not that a good OCer though. max out at 2.75Mhz same as my venice.... but it does have a better mem controller..... im trying all means now to push it to 2.8ghz with 1.6v...

anyone knows if the 1.36 1T bios works better for SD ?

i have the exact same chip...0526 APAW. Mine does 2.8ghz with 1.65v with my xp-90c. I'm using the 1.36 rev 4 bios right now (the non-1T version), and i think having 4 sticks of my OCZ plat might be hurting my oc. Anyone know if a SD can handle 4 sticks at 1T?

btw 2.8ghz for me is superpi 32m stable and i played 3hrs of BF2 at the speed last night. My current settings are 9x311 with 133 divider.

Lestat
08-04-2005, 05:31 AM
BooYah very good dude ESPECIALLY with 4 sticks of ram but dont forget you also have a 3700+ not a 3000 or 3200 like me. lol.

:banana::banana::banana::banana: my system wont even boot with 4 sticks of ram. all it does is beep at me.

and yes that 4 sticks, there is a very very good chance its blocking you from going higher. yank 2 out and see what happens. Does your ram auto run at 166 ? since its 4 sticks.

hhmm when my ram comes back from rma ill have to give the 1.36 a try.

Harpy - there are a few online places that will look at the stepping for you and hand pick it for you. dont ask me where but i definately have seen guys talking about them.

And yeah money is stopping me or i might have went for that 3800 X2 but also the fact that the dual cores arent really even utilized yet. its too new. give it until xmas or sometimes in January or Feb before you buy. AMD will have their Socket M2 chips ready i believe. which will also make all the other chips drop down in price.

Millyons
08-04-2005, 07:52 AM
sorry to ask this question like this but i dont have time to go throung all these pages...

I got the neo2 comming in few days and im wondering what is the best bios or modded bios for it.........ill be using it with 2x512 OCZ Gold BH5 ram and not sure yet if winny or venice cause i just ordered oem cpu

thanks

Lestat
08-04-2005, 09:56 AM
it dont matter if its oem or not you should have seen or can still see what the cpu is.
go to where you purchased it online that is and see what it is

what speed is it 3000 ? 3200 3500 ? and where id you get it.

not sure if its venice or winchester wow... thats like buying a grapefruit but not sure if you grabbed a grapefruit or orange.

and either way the 1.8 rev 3 modded bios found here http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios/?dir=./need.for.mhz/v1.8%20Modded%20BIOS(s)
will probably be your best bet.

toledo
08-04-2005, 11:03 AM
sorry to ask this question like this but i dont have time to go throung all these pages...

I got the neo2 comming in few days and im wondering what is the best bios or modded bios for it.........ill be using it with 2x512 OCZ Gold BH5 ram and not sure yet if winny or venice cause i just ordered oem cpu

thanks

For bh-5 bios 1.36b or newer should work well .

harpyboy
08-04-2005, 12:30 PM
i have the exact same chip...0526 APAW. Mine does 2.8ghz with 1.65v with my xp-90c. I'm using the 1.36 rev 4 bios right now (the non-1T version), and i think having 4 sticks of my OCZ plat might be hurting my oc. Anyone know if a SD can handle 4 sticks at 1T?

btw 2.8ghz for me is superpi 32m stable and i played 3hrs of BF2 at the speed last night. My current settings are 9x311 with 133 divider.

that's very cool... im going to try the BIOS tomorrow. Thanks for the headup.. :)

PureBooYah
08-04-2005, 01:18 PM
BooYah very good dude ESPECIALLY with 4 sticks of ram but dont forget you also have a 3700+ not a 3000 or 3200 like me. lol.

:banana::banana::banana::banana: my system wont even boot with 4 sticks of ram. all it does is beep at me.

and yes that 4 sticks, there is a very very good chance its blocking you from going higher. yank 2 out and see what happens. Does your ram auto run at 166 ? since its 4 sticks.

hhmm when my ram comes back from rma ill have to give the 1.36 a try.

Harpy - there are a few online places that will look at the stepping for you and hand pick it for you. dont ask me where but i definately have seen guys talking about them.

And yeah money is stopping me or i might have went for that 3800 X2 but also the fact that the dual cores arent really even utilized yet. its too new. give it until xmas or sometimes in January or Feb before you buy. AMD will have their Socket M2 chips ready i believe. which will also make all the other chips drop down in price.


i had a 0448SPBW 3200+ winchester before this that was stable at 9x308 (2.77ghz) with 4 sticks of ram too, but with the 133 divider...with 2 sticks it was stable at 2.82ghz 10x282 1:1 with 2T or 9x313 with 166 divider 1T.

Not going to have too much time to mess around with my SD until this weekend, but i did test to see if it defaulted to 166 with 4 sticks of ram and it does not. I put it down to stock speeds with the 200 divider and it gave me 200mhz memory.

Millyons
08-04-2005, 01:57 PM
it dont matter if its oem or not you should have seen or can still see what the cpu is.
go to where you purchased it online that is and see what it is

what speed is it 3000 ? 3200 3500 ? and where id you get it.

not sure if its venice or winchester wow... thats like buying a grapefruit but not sure if you grabbed a grapefruit or orange.

and either way the 1.8 rev 3 modded bios found here http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios/?dir=./need.for.mhz/v1.8%20Modded%20BIOS(s)
will probably be your best bet.


its from my close friend that imports parts from a different country, so it would be kind of hard to check in a wholesale store that has god knows how much buissnes in a day.....i dont really care (i would like a venice) but i just need something to hold me till grouper and r520 and probably a X2, i just need something new to play with............ya i guess i could have gotten the mobo and the cpu in my country but believe it or not it would have costed me almost 100 euros more just for those 2 things


oh ya its a 3000..........basicly getting that and the neo2 is gonna be the same price that i can sell my newcastle and epox s754 board for here

Millyons
08-04-2005, 02:04 PM
so basicly the NFM modded 1.36 rev4 or the 1.8 rev3 are the best bioses right?

harpyboy
08-04-2005, 02:59 PM
so basicly the NFM modded 1.36 rev4 or the 1.8 rev3 are the best bioses right?

yes. :)

Millyons
08-04-2005, 03:31 PM
thanks :)

harpyboy
08-04-2005, 09:46 PM
i have the exact same chip...0526 APAW. Mine does 2.8ghz with 1.65v with my xp-90c. I'm using the 1.36 rev 4 bios right now (the non-1T version), and i think having 4 sticks of my OCZ plat might be hurting my oc.?

btw 2.8ghz for me is superpi 32m stable and i played 3hrs of BF2 at the speed last night. My current settings are 9x311 with 133 divider.

im using the 1.36v with 1T ... and 2.8ghz is 32m stable as well with 1.66v. (1.45 + 13%).. im going to try bringing it down to 1.62v stable. thanks for advice pal.....

had u tried OCing with onli 2 sticks and getting a higher OC?

PureBooYah
08-05-2005, 04:17 AM
im using the 1.36v with 1T ... and 2.8ghz is 32m stable as well with 1.66v. (1.45 + 13%).. im going to try bringing it down to 1.62v stable. thanks for advice pal.....

had u tried OCing with onli 2 sticks and getting a higher OC?

not yet, later tonight i'll be able to play around with it :D

Lestat
08-05-2005, 07:37 AM
because of the power requirements of 4 sticks it should result in higher overclocks with 2 sticks but of course we all know thats no guarentee. but historically 2 sticks vs 4 sticks should result in more from the cpu.
you could always trade 4 512 sticks for 2 1 gig sticks... 2 1 gig'ers will still require more power than 2 512's but not as much as 4 512's. but the downside is 1 gig sticks dont overclock as well.

Havoc
08-05-2005, 08:25 AM
Hi guys,

I'm currently using the 1.8 official BIOS, and I'm having issues with my USB 2.0 IDE HDD Enclosure, it is recognized correctly but when I start transferring files, the drive just "disappears" after a while (like if I unplugged it). Very annoying and makes the thing unusable. I tried it on another machine and works fine, so it's gotta be my NEO2 acting up. All other USB devices I have (including a 512MB USB 2.0 flash drive) work fine.

Would another BIOS fix this? I heard good things about the 1.9mob3 by NFM, but since I never messed with trrd values and such I'm afraid I might lose stability (running a mild overclock here, a 3200+ Winnie @ 2400MHz, 1:1 with OCZ Rev2)

Lestat
08-05-2005, 10:05 AM
Would another BIOS fix this? I heard good things about the 1.9mob3 by NFM

im not sure where you heard that cuz its a lie.. no offense to NFM but he stopped working with that bios cuz its :banana::banana::banana::banana:...


go grab the 1.8 rev3 from his site.. its beautiful!!

have you tried using a different USB port for that hard drive enclosure ? hhmm ?

i have 2 usb hard drives both 120 gig drives and i have never had any issues.

reflash the bios with the Rev 3 and it should be ok

but its also possible that your hard drive or USB enclosure is bad or the cable.. <--- just a thought... :\

Havoc
08-05-2005, 10:33 AM
im not sure where you heard that cuz its a lie.. no offense to NFM but he stopped working with that bios cuz its :banana::banana::banana::banana:...


go grab the 1.8 rev3 from his site.. its beautiful!!

have you tried using a different USB port for that hard drive enclosure ? hhmm ?

i have 2 usb hard drives both 120 gig drives and i have never had any issues.

reflash the bios with the Rev 3 and it should be ok

but its also possible that your hard drive or USB enclosure is bad or the cable.. <--- just a thought... :\


Yes, i tried all my USB ports, and I tested the drive on another computer and it worked fine. So the problem lies on my computer.

Well, I'll try the modded BIOS and report back here. Should I try the 1.9 official?

Lestat
08-05-2005, 12:33 PM
*shakes his head and sighs*


nooooo i told you which to use. RESPECT MY AUTHORITAYYYYY!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_17_4.gif
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_15.gif

Havoc
08-05-2005, 03:24 PM
*shakes his head and sighs*


nooooo i told you which to use. RESPECT MY AUTHORITAYYYYY!!! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_17_4.gif
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_15.gif

Tried 1.8r3 from NFM, same problem (although everything else is fine, nice BIOS). Did not try 1.9 yet, though... maybe tomorrow.

Lestat
08-05-2005, 04:02 PM
Uninstall your nvidia drivers and reinstall them

yes thats right.
ive seen this on a time or two but not very often. when i saw it happen it was something with the PCI management bus that actually controls the USB ports and speeds. This really sounds like an overloaded usb port though.
what about device manager ? what does it say about your usb ports when this happens ? do you get a little error down by your clock when this thing goes goofy. ?

are you plugging this directly into the mobo or a usb hub ? If its a hub ... dont use it.
dont forget have you actually used the jumper on the mobo and reset the bios ?

there isnt anythingi n the bios that could cause this all the bios does is say on or off high speed or normal speed. and bootable or not.

CD 1986
08-05-2005, 05:18 PM
Yeh, doesn't sound like a bios issue. Stick with the 1.8mod rev3...its currently the best one out there. When you re-install the nforce drivers, make sure you don't have the nvidia IDE driver installed. :)

harpyboy
08-05-2005, 06:51 PM
not yet, later tonight i'll be able to play around with it :D

arg i give up.. i can't go pass 2800mhz with anything less than 1.66v. i have decided to run it 2750mhz at 1.6v 24/7 until the X2 comes down to $350.

PureBooYah
08-05-2005, 09:45 PM
arg i give up.. i can't go pass 2800mhz with anything less than 1.66v. i have decided to run it 2750mhz at 1.6v 24/7 until the X2 comes down to $350.

yeah, i've pretty much stopped at 2.81ghz. 11x255 with 166 divider works with my 4 sticks of ram after i used the settings for A64 tweaker in another thread here... http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70780 ....before those settings my memory had problems going over 207mhz, and 11x255 166 divider would freeze on startup. Now it's stable.

Havoc
08-06-2005, 08:17 AM
Yeh, doesn't sound like a bios issue. Stick with the 1.8mod rev3...its currently the best one out there. When you re-install the nforce drivers, make sure you don't have the nvidia IDE driver installed. :)

Well reinstalling the drivers almost destroyed my pc. I found out I HAVE to install the nvidia IDE drivers, otherwise my second SATA HD would not be recognized. After this reinstall, the computer now "halts" for a moment after windows loads, I can move the mouse and all but can't open a explorer window or enter the start menu... After a minute or so everything goes back to normal.

Now it seems I'll have to perform a full windows reinstall.
:mad:

AND it didn't help, the USB HDD is still not functioning. And I am connecting if directly to the mobo, there is no USB overload (I only use USB Keyb and mouse). And as I said it, no error occurs, the HDD simply "disappears" during the file transfer, exactly the same reaction if I were to unplug it while it was transfering files.

Ah well.... thanks for trying anyway guys, I appreciate it.

pcnet
08-06-2005, 09:57 AM
help me downloal bios 1.36b

mata2974
08-06-2005, 10:04 AM
so officially is there a bios thats supports 3800X2 specifically

sideeffect
08-06-2005, 12:12 PM
so officially is there a bios thats supports 3800X2 specifically


Well the 1.9 official bios does. And the Beta 1.A3 bios does. 1.A3 Bios is supposed to be better though even though its beta.

harpyboy
08-06-2005, 01:00 PM
had anyone yet runs a X2 on their neo2 btw ???

sideeffect
08-06-2005, 03:24 PM
had anyone yet runs a X2 on their neo2 btw ???

Yes lots of people on the german msi forum are using dual core cpus with neo 2.

rodman
08-07-2005, 10:29 AM
Can I run 2gb with my Winchester 3500@2.53 230HTT. I will just get 2 more PDP XBL sticks. Using bios 1.4

sideeffect
08-07-2005, 10:37 AM
Can I run 2gb with my Winchester 3500@2.53 230HTT. I will just get 2 more PDP XBL sticks. Using bios 1.4


You almost certainly will be able to run 4 sticks. The problem is getting a decent overclock with them. Winchester memory controllers arent so great so you will probably be forced to 2T but with bank inteleaving on there is little to no performance loss.

Youll have much better luck if all the dimms are single sided. So try and get single sided. Considered selling the 2 x 512mb sticks u have and buying 2 x 1gb sticks?

Crucial ballistix 2 x 1gb will do 250 mhz and some new ocz 1gb sticks are out to that are fast.

Jacke2k
08-07-2005, 02:31 PM
Hmm I'm woundering of getting mor ram. BF2 doest run good whit only 1 gig of ram. But i whant to do a good overclock to. You no of eny good mem for my setup ?

harpyboy
08-08-2005, 12:14 AM
edited:

gave wrong info... typed in the wrong window

2GB (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67762)

Sleepy Samurai
08-08-2005, 06:50 AM
I am having dome troubles achieving the guarantied speeds on my OZC ram. It is rated at 2-2-2-5 217Mhz and warranted at 3.1v.
http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/ocz_el_ddr_pc_3500_gold_gx_dual_channel

I let the ram run for a day at stock speeds and adjusted the times to 2-2-2-5 1T @ 200MHz 2.7v with no problems. When I go to over clock the FSB the system crashes.

The board can do 290FSB and the Venice can handle 2.7GHz no problems. I have had good result with my Hynix D-BT43 at 3-4-4-8 2T 240MHz @ 2.75v With 4xHTT

What is the weak feature on the bios and how much impact are the T settings (1T or 2T).

I am not an experienced OC'r so I maybe over looking some thing. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
S.S.

Lestat
08-08-2005, 07:15 AM
samurai...

that GX stuff is just entry level ram that isnt designed for overclocking. I can agree that anything over stock and it crashes is pretty bad but the GX stuff is cheap. they call it gamers ram cuz of the 2-2-2- timings... which help in games.

with that in mind set the ram to 2.8 and try it which the ocz website says to do.

then go 2.85 which is the max this board will do. it SHOULD work.

if your using SATA drives be sure they are plugged into the SATA ports that are right beside the CPU.
Turn OFF Spread Spectrum
Turn OFF NV/ADI Speedup
Set HTT Multiplier to 2.5x
start with 200mhz and then run memtest and use test #5 for 30 min.... start memtest then hit, in this order... C - 1 - 3 - 5 - Enter - 5 - 3 - 0
that opens the configuration, maually selects Test #5 and tells it to only report number of errors not every single error and its error location... although if the ram is bad,, a screen shot of that too ocz will be needed.

then go to 205... 210....

and dont forget that if the system will no longer post there is no need to reset the bios with the junper just tap the Insert Key over and over a few times and that lowers the ram freq and puts the system into safe mode where you hit Del then go into the bios to fix things...

run only 1 stick at a time you could have 1 bad stick..

put the ram in slots 0 and 1 or 1 and 2 as most people call them (but its not technically its called 0,1,2,3)

reset the bios using the jumper to clear anything goofy out.

reflash the bios with 1.8 Rev 3 from NFM

you can TEST 2T but this ran will run 1T fine the drive strength of normal or weak,,, honestly i have found no benefits or reprocussions from using that so i leave it on normal all the time.

Sleepy Samurai
08-08-2005, 09:31 AM
OCZ web site does not provide allot of information. The timings are listed at 2-2-2-5 at 217MHz and the ram can do 3.1v

The boot failure tip you provided will come in handy. An I will make good use of it. :toast:

The one thing that interested me was your comment on entry level ram. Do you mean entry level performance ram? Could you explain Lestat what you meant?

Thank you,
S.S.

EDIT:

I just read an review and found out why I am having troubles. The ram is rated at 2T timings. And they were able to reach 225MHz with the ram oced.

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/ocz3500gx/

EDIT:

I lowered the HTT, increased the voltage, and changed the timing to 2T. Once I raised the FSB the computer blue screened. I am starting to think the ram or some thing is buggy.

Lestat
08-08-2005, 11:26 AM
entry level performance ram is a better term to use yes.
its cheaper,, its not an overclocking designed ram from the reviews of it i have seen.

basically games perform better with 2-2-2- timings and not all 2-2-2- timing ram is cheap so i imagine OCZ put out this entry level performance ram to move people over to OCZ and let them experience the 2-2-2- performance that others with higher performance ram have seen.

i just havent seen good OC results with this ram but post your question in the OCZ section here,, the guys over there are great.

and dont run the ram at 3.1v that just is a warrenty thing they do.. if its TCCD or TCCC hynic then 3.1 volts will do no good at all and can harm it.

more than likely what it is is TCCD DDR400 that failed their tests but runs fine at up to around 220mhz....

so they take it and put it into the cheaper ram and sell it for less.

if it is infact TCCD then voltages above 2.9v are worthless.. it wont do any good and infact can kill TCCD based ram.

Millyons
08-08-2005, 02:08 PM
GX isnt entry level ram (its almost as expencive as their VX PC4000), they are BH5 chips they should work at the stock speeds if not rma them, but if they are ok, and if u can supply them more voltage u should be able to get them anywhere in 240-260mhz and mabey more

Lestat
08-08-2005, 02:11 PM
millyons --

woah they ARE bh5 ? wow no kidding ?

i say entry level performance stuff cuz what i have seen for overclocking i havent seen too much good... i dont know if they are failed VX stuff or what...

but hell yes if they are BH5 crank the volts and give them hell!!! lol

but if they wont run stock use one stick at a time to see if you can find the bad stick or what not...
thanks for the info millyons!

Millyons
08-08-2005, 02:18 PM
they are not failed VX (wich are new CH5/UTT dye) they are the new BH5 dye and and basicly the same as OCZ PC3200 Gold witch some ppl have and are getting around same results as with the VX ..... OCZ Gold GX are just a new product so that is why there isnt much about it on the forums...............and ya about neoseekers thing about being speced at 2T i dont think OCZ speces any of their ram 2T specialy since that is more of a chipset / cpu thing ........... i for one had old BH5 KHX 2x512mb that did different 1T speeds on 3 different NF7-S all up to 215mhz and then they did 230mhz top on my nforce3

Sleepy Samurai
08-08-2005, 02:24 PM
Thanks guys,

Emailed OCZ and they replied in under an hour :clap:

The tech said raise the timings to 2-2-2-10 at 2.75 volts and if the does not work they will RMA.

I lowered the timings and it wouldn't do 205MHz 2-2-2-10 2T@2.75v so RMA we go.. To bad because they are brand new.

Millyons
08-08-2005, 02:31 PM
ya OCZ has awsome customer support.........dont feel bad about rma its better than having flakey ram

Lestat
08-08-2005, 02:51 PM
yeah its just getting flakey ram right out of the box that buts a persons undies in a bunch...

but yes 2-2-2-5 or 10 and run then at different HTT values @ 2.75 and if they wont run then they are shot.

and that is really cool to know that they are the new BH-5 stuff... again i just have not seen any good overclocking results for this ram.. but defualts speeds that do not run yes... definately rma them..

Jhya
08-08-2005, 04:53 PM
yeah its just getting flakey ram right out of the box that buts a persons undies in a bunch...

but yes 2-2-2-5 or 10 and run then at different HTT values @ 2.75 and if they wont run then they are shot.

and that is really cool to know that they are the new BH-5 stuff... again i just have not seen any good overclocking results for this ram.. but defualts speeds that do not run yes... definately rma them..

I think the Neo 2 just hates BH-5 rams, especially the 2x512MB flavors. I have 2x512 old school BH-5 Kingston rams that will do 2-2-2-10 @ 2.6V on the Neo2 at 200 HTT. But anything higher than 205 HTT is a no go at whatever the voltage (i have tried a ddr booster at up to 3.5v), bios settings or bios versions. This is with a 3200+ Winchester.

And, i have never read anyone that has good luck overclocking with 2x512MB BH-5 with the neo2 at 2-2-2-10 (even with a ddr booster).

sideeffect
08-08-2005, 05:27 PM
For some strange reason Core center wont work anymore for me says. Core center doesnt support your board.

Also in cpuz it doesnt say motherboard name anymore its just blank.

I did install new nforce drivers not to long ago. Version :devil:6.66:devil: i think it was but im pretty sure core center worked after that not certain though.

Anyone else had this ?

Lestat
08-08-2005, 06:02 PM
hjhhmmm 6.66 never hear dof those i use the 6.xx beta or 6. something or antoher beta...

wierd... i bet those drivers are for nforce 4 only cuz unlike what people say those NForce 4 drivers do not work properly for nforce 3 chipsets..

TMM
08-08-2005, 11:54 PM
Corecenter has always worked fine for me with both 5.10 and 6.37B drivers

Sleepy Samurai
08-09-2005, 07:28 AM
I think the Neo 2 just hates BH-5 rams, especially the 2x512MB flavors. I have 2x512 old school BH-5 Kingston rams that will do 2-2-2-10 @ 2.6V on the Neo2 at 200 HTT. But anything higher than 205 HTT is a no go at whatever the voltage (i have tried a ddr booster at up to 3.5v), bios settings or bios versions. This is with a 3200+ Winchester.

And, i have never read anyone that has good luck overclocking with 2x512MB BH-5 with the neo2 at 2-2-2-10 (even with a ddr booster).

Has any one else had problems with BH-5 chips on their MSI board?

This may explain why the ram is fine at 200MHz but fails at anything over 2001MHz at any timings.

It is not to late to return the ram if it is no good for my setup. What should I get in it's place? In the $240 Canadian range.

Lestat
08-09-2005, 07:57 AM
its no good dude id say the ram itself is bad..
the BH-5 has ram fine upwards and over 250mhz depending on the ram..

the mushkin redline will run massive speeds.

you gotta remember the AMD64's love tight timings... just look at the OCZ VX stuff that windbond UTT which is not nearly as good as BH-5 ram and it will run 260mhz 2-2-2-5

i say your ram is bad .

you need to increase the voltage on that ram crank it to 3.0v and see what happens.. its not gunna hurt the ram.

i could be wrong but i stick with the ram being bad...

have you ever run any tccd ram in that board ? at 2-2-2
have you lowered your HTT multiplier to 2.5 or 3 or 2 ?

whats your cpu voltages ?

turn off spread spectrum.... have you tried the 1.8 rev 3 mod that NFM has ?

Jhya
08-09-2005, 11:11 AM
its no good dude id say the ram itself is bad..
the BH-5 has ram fine upwards and over 250mhz depending on the ram..

the mushkin redline will run massive speeds.

you gotta remember the AMD64's love tight timings... just look at the OCZ VX stuff that windbond UTT which is not nearly as good as BH-5 ram and it will run 260mhz 2-2-2-5

i say your ram is bad .

you need to increase the voltage on that ram crank it to 3.0v and see what happens.. its not gunna hurt the ram.

i could be wrong but i stick with the ram being bad...

have you ever run any tccd ram in that board ? at 2-2-2
have you lowered your HTT multiplier to 2.5 or 3 or 2 ?

whats your cpu voltages ?

turn off spread spectrum.... have you tried the 1.8 rev 3 mod that NFM has ?

I speaking out frustration from my own experience with BH-5 rams on the NEO2. The MSI K8N Neo2 just HATES BH-5 rams.

Have you actually tried the BH-5 on the NEO2 with 2 512MB sticks??? I like to see you run those at 250MHz!

To be honest I dont even think the redline or VX sticks will run 250MHz at 2-2-2-10 timings on the MSI K8N NEO2 either.

Can anyone confirm that?

Garrett
08-09-2005, 11:20 AM
My BH5 runs @ 270 on my Neo2... so no it doesn't hate it.

I don't have redline or VX, but my 2nd set (1st set is 2x256bh5) is UTT 2x512 "so called ch5" and does 267 without problems...

Lestat
08-09-2005, 11:33 AM
BH5 and neo2 dont mix dude you just have crap ram and a crap board.

im not sure what your issues has been with the bh5 you have had but if it dont work on your board then its bad ram or a bad board end of story

the neo2 loves BH5

Vega
08-09-2005, 01:57 PM
I can easily run fsb250+ in memtest but in windows I can only hit fsb234. Everything higher than that result in "freezing" when OS load!

I use 2-2-2-8 timings, 3.3~3.4V
The CPU is not the problem!
I cool my memorys and booster with a 120mm fan.

I adjust my rails today but nothing changed!

3,4V
12,2V
5,1V

What more can I do?
How can I raise my chipset voltage?
System in sign.

Thank´s

Jhya
08-09-2005, 02:01 PM
My BH5 runs @ 270 on my Neo2... so no it doesn't hate it.

I don't have redline or VX, but my 2nd set (1st set is 2x256bh5) is UTT 2x512 "so called ch5" and does 267 without problems...

I like to see some screen shot please. And it must be 2X512MB of BH-5. It's pointless if you got 2x256MB BH-5 to 270MHz cuz anyone can get to that.

Please post your system setup also please! That will help others that are trying to get to 250+ MHz on their 2x512MB BH-5 ram.

Lestat, I notice you're using the OCZ PC4800 ram in your sig. From my understanding those are samsung memory chips. Have you ever tested 2x512MB BH-5 RAM in your Neo2 personally? If not, you don't get to make that conclusion.

If Sleepy Samurai is trying to narrow down the problem on his system, it is not helping him if you just conclude blindly his OCZ rams are bad without considering other factors such as incompatibility between the ram and Neo2 motherboard.

Lestat
08-09-2005, 02:57 PM
Jhya its not helping by you saying that the neo2 hates bh5 thats bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: and you know it.

this board has been around long enough and so have i and the FEW people who have had issues with BH5 it was either a goofy mobo or goofy ram

your conclusion that ALL bh5 is bad for the neo2 is rediculous!

there is nothing wrong with BH5 and the NEO2 and YES i have ive tested Mushkin Redline 4000 265 2-2-2-5 it wasnt mine but i wished it was :)

dude i have offered possible fixes if you have tried them and they dont work then RMA the ram... the GUARENTEE that stuff to run a certain speed at a certain voltage and -

1: Unless you ahve a DDR booster the NEO2 does not offer enough volts to make that BH5 ram run...
2. go to the OCZ section this isnt the right place to ask... there is a specific section with OCZ Technicians here who help people such as yourself who aer having issues.

the UTT is absolutely no different from the bh5 besides the fact its not bh5 and its not as good as bh5...

if your claiming BH5 is no good are you gunna tell me that before 1 year ago when TCCD came out that EVERYONE was using Samsung and Hynix chips on their NEO2's ? thats rediculous..

2virgule5
08-09-2005, 03:19 PM
to answer #2193 /2194, I've been running an X2 - 4200+ (that is 2.2 GHz w 512k L1 for each core) on my Neo2 Platinum for the past 7 days.

My previous CPU was a 3200+ Winnie, I was able to get 2.6 Ghz prime stable with the same mobo, with vcore at 1.55+10% in bios (260 HTT x 10), and a Zalman Reserator passive watercooling.

My X2 works well with either 1.9 or 1.A3 bios. Default vcore is rated at 1.29 / 1.30 v (given that this value is read correctly by CPU-Z). First I was unable to set default vcore to any other value than the "startup" one (no boot), what I did was to flash again the bios with the "updtae all" option (DMI, Bootblock, etc. with Winflash). Now, with 1.55 v +10% selected in bios, the actual vcore indicated with CPU-Z is in the range of 1.53 to 1.58 (seems quite unstable). Otherwise, at this vcore, a stable overclock at ~ 2600 to 2650 came on quite easily (260 to 265 HTT x 10 multiplier). As my RAM cannot be used at higher speed than 220 fsb (Corsair Value PC3200 CAS 2.5), I had to use the "166" divider and relax some of the timings to get it perfectly stable. Any higher overclock led the core 0 to fail in Prime95, while core 1 can stay Prime95 stable at 2700+ MHz.

The only and main issue with this is about cold boot : once oveclocked and after the shutdown, I cannot boot again without clearing the CMOS and setting up the bios correctly. This does not happend with default non overclocked values, it happends with both 1.9 and 1.A3 bios. It seems that any overclock with HHT higher than ~220 is causing this cold boot issue. Even modified 1.9 and 1.A3 with no temperature mod are useless to fix this.

It is a shame for now (from an moderate overclocker perspective), but we can hope that this will be fixed in a future bios revision. Other than that, I'm quite pleased with the stability and performance of those new dual-core CPU on an almost 2 years old MB.

2,5

sideeffect
08-09-2005, 03:42 PM
Im also getting this cold boot issue now. But only because im using 300htt. At 275htt it always booted fine. Now i have to boot and wait and it starts defaults then i quickly enter bios and save and it boots fine. Stable. (1.8 bios)

Hopefully they will add the load from defaults option to the 1.A3 bios so that u dont have to clear cmos all the time, that must suck.

h4nc0
08-09-2005, 09:52 PM
Try using different Vcore setting. 1.55v option resulted in the cold-boot problem, so I switched different setting, and now it works. (Both combo gave me around 1.35v for running X2 4400+ @ 250x10)

2virgule5
08-09-2005, 11:05 PM
#2222/2223

Thanks, I'm going to try different settings.

sideeffect, how come that you can enter the bios after a cold boot : nothing happends for me if I wait...

sideeffect
08-10-2005, 03:26 AM
Its because with all the bios before 1.9 if the bios cant boot it will boot with slower settings.

Lestat
08-10-2005, 06:17 AM
Its because with all the bios before 1.9 if the bios cant boot it will boot with slower settings.

did they actually fix that ?
i thought only the 1.8 and lower had the "safe mode" setting. when overclocking fails.
i LOVE that about these bios's if it fails 99% of the time you just shut down and start up again and start tapping Insert and its in 'safe mode' which is just a lower speed on cpu and ram. unlike sooo many other mobo's where you have to reset the bios.. ggrrr...

redline 4000 is on the way... mmm finally i get to own a set and not just test it.. mmmmm cant wait..

sideeffect
08-10-2005, 07:30 AM
Thats what im saying lestat i have 1.8 so safe mode works for me fine when i get cold boot bug. 2virgule5 has 1.9 bios so he has to reset cmos everythime it cold boots.

Lestat
08-10-2005, 07:42 AM
ohh i thought you said 1.9 had it.

man what do we lol or should i say NFM gotta do to put that safe mode back in.. once again its a feature i could kill MSI for removing.. i mean frankly thas just retarded...


im testing the 1.36 Rev 4 right now... ill let you know how it goes

i can tell you right now though the temp bug is sooo obvious lol omg 38c idle at default voltages ?!! i think not.. that should be reading 30c

does the temp bug cause the cpu to throttle back ? i hope not...

Budwise
08-10-2005, 08:28 AM
so far 1.A3Mod by Syar seems to be my favorite. Lots of extra options, and defaults are set a bit different. Most of all it fixed my CPU Spread Spectrum bug.

Zeus...
08-10-2005, 09:26 AM
Just got back off Holidays - has the 1.9 Bios sorted out the issues with the Venice core - or is it still having issues - sorry havnt time to read all the post since at home

Lestat
08-10-2005, 09:29 AM
so far 1.A3Mod by Syar seems to be my favorite. Lots of extra options, and defaults are set a bit different. Most of all it fixed my CPU Spread Spectrum bug.


can you provide a link to this bios ?

and what 'extra' options are there ?

link link link lol...

sideeffect
08-10-2005, 10:02 AM
Just got back off Holidays - has the 1.9 Bios sorted out the issues with the Venice core - or is it still having issues - sorry havnt time to read all the post since at home


No Zeus the 1.9 bios isnt that great. Its not terrible but not as good as the 1.8. The 1.A3 bios looks promising though.

Zeus...
08-10-2005, 10:42 AM
Thats for that sideeffect :) :)

Looks like we r :horse:

havn't been over at DFI street yet - has the 'DFI LanParty UT NF3 Ultra' got the bios sorted yet? will take even longer to get though those posts :rolleyes:

Millyons
08-10-2005, 12:20 PM
whats the best way to flash the neo2 bios, what i mean do any switches need to be used if flashing from fdd

Lestat
08-10-2005, 12:25 PM
here is what i use

just replace the rom name with whatever you call yours

AWFL833D 180Rev3.BIN /py/sn/wb/cc/cd/cp/f

i make a bat file, rename it to flash.bat and paste that into the bat file then in dos just type flash.bat

Sleepy Samurai
08-10-2005, 12:27 PM
I need to replace my South :rolleyes:bridge HSF quickly, what should i buy?

I am looking at the Vantec Iceberq Copper VGA/Chipset Fan.


MSI sent me a tiny little thing as a replacment saying they were out of stock. The heatsink is smaller than the stock fan of the MSI NB.

Lestat
08-10-2005, 12:28 PM
yeah a vantec one will work for now just watch your temps and its a southbridge not a northbridge lol..

just really watch those temps

Millyons
08-10-2005, 12:31 PM
thanks well i just got the neo2, 4 sticks of OCZ Gold and a 3000 e6 so the fun starts :) although i did read a bit that the gpfw steping that i god might not be to great :(

edit: does anyone use a E6 Venice with a pre 1.9 bios and is it stable since i rather use 1.8nfm

Lestat
08-10-2005, 12:46 PM
yeah dont use the 1.9 i think everyone here pretty much sticks with the 1.36 or 1.8 if they have a venice

4 sticks of OCZ ouch this board aint gunna like that...

Millyons
08-10-2005, 12:58 PM
naw im just gonna run 2 stick the other 2 sticks are for other system / backup since from my country it would be hard to do an rma if i need (god forbid)....i just said 4 since im gonna use the best 2 in the neo2



is there a difference between 1.8 and 1.36b for OC with BH5?

Lestat
08-10-2005, 02:43 PM
so what is this 1.A3Mod by Syar this dude was talking about can someone provide a link ?

Lestat
08-10-2005, 03:16 PM
nm i found it

lol im scared to try this bios lol

Millyons
08-10-2005, 03:45 PM
well my "playing with new stuff" didnt start off to well so im calling it a night.....can u guys imagine i couldnt stick on a atx connector from a new chieftec PSU, i tried one of my enermaxes that is hacked up (missing fans, wires sinniped with missing pots) and it conected OK, so now i got to wait till tommorow to pull out my working enermax.............

sideeffect
08-10-2005, 04:50 PM
Lestat post link to bios and info then :rolleyes:

Lestat
08-10-2005, 05:04 PM
oops sorry i lost my head there. didnt mean to horde it all to myself :\

http://f2.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/budwise321


i havent tried this yet i dont have the guts any and allll 1.9 bios's have reacted VERY VERY violently to my system and hardware. meaning refuses to boot to anything.. voltages must be exact or below spec or system wont even finish post and on and on and on..

anyways this isnt 1.9 its almost like a 2.0 i havent tried it yet if someone else wants to... go for it.


btw the 1.36 Rev 4 seems to run really good... just as good as 1.8 rev 3 if not slightly better using the ocz PC4800 but still cant go over 260-ish with this ram without running 2T which is total bullsh|t i have NEVER EVER seen aNY ram fore you to drop to 2T at such low crap overclocks... ESPECIALLY when the ram is rated at 300mhz..

msimax
08-10-2005, 08:33 PM
1.A3 bios is a good bios it allows me to get 320htt with the 166 div this is with muskin redline 3500 before with the 1.8r3 i could just to the 265-270 before things got hairy. now using this bios you cant jump the gun i did and scewed my bios up reflashed it and took baby steps 10mhz at a time and it works.so one success story here :) :) :)
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9188/imga00037vy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Budwise
08-10-2005, 08:34 PM
there ya go, thats it on my yahoo briefcase. I was just about ot post it. Its scary how i can post my briefcase on a site and it will spread to others within hours. When i posted 1.9 before it came out i posted it on one site, and within 24hours it was EVERYWHERE. This bios has LOTS of goodies in it. Drive Strength, all the memory timings you could want, ATI/Nvidia speedup, a spot to input your MAC Lan address in case it gets erased like 1.9 did, and more. This bios was given to me by Syar on MSI HQ and it was one that he modded for his personal use. He has the defaults set a little different, but i believe it will be to most people's liking, no voltages timings etc are changed some some very basic stuff. (EX: Spread Spectrum is disabled, Full Screen Bootup disabled, etc.)


Enjoy! Its a good one!
Chris

msimax
08-10-2005, 08:35 PM
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/817/imga00015kv.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4021/imga00079tc.jpg (http://imageshack.us) http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3012/imga00107ho.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

D3kMatrix
08-10-2005, 11:35 PM
I have an archive of NEO2 BIOS's going that I try to keep updated for everyone to use. Easier to have all them in 1 place with some information about them =)

http://www.msi.sploitz.com/

And as new BIOS come out or you find anymore info then I have listed, it would be great if you could send it my way so I can keep the site up to date.

Feel free to spread it around for people to use.

sideeffect
08-11-2005, 05:41 AM
Does the 1.A3Mod by Syar have the no temp mod added. If someone using it could go into bios and look and see if it shows the cpu temp and mainboard temp etc or not please.

I cant flash a bios with temps showing because it wont work.

Lestat
08-11-2005, 05:48 AM
MSIMAX - awesome to hear you got your HTT up.

1.8 Rev3 was the best for me but 1.36 Rev 4 seems equally good.
no other bios other than 1.8 Rev 3 has allowed me to reach 370mhz HTT.

looks like i will have to give this new one a try and see what happens.

D3kMatrix welcome and thanks for the database and the time your spending doing it.

MSIMAX i got some of the special Redline coming around Saturday maybe even tommorrow.. 1.5-2-2-0 265mhz 3.6v :) i realise i highly doubt the neo2 will let me push it that hard but im gunna try.
It's gotta be better than this PC4800. Ive never had ANY ram that required you to run 2T at 265 and up..and ive had alot of ram.. not even their PC3200 Plat TCCD required you to run 2t on a NON DFI board. im a bit angry right now but i feel some of it is the bios's *maybe* ill try the new one and report back


Does this bios require the NEW awdflash ? the 1.9 did because its a different layout and style of bios.. it required the flash tool to be updated.. ?

Millyons
08-11-2005, 06:55 AM
i just hooked up my neo2 and my e6 venice, i flashed to 1.8rev3 but my ram is at 2T (i only stuck in 2x256) i cant find an option for 1T so do i need the 1T bioses even though i dont have a sandiego?

Lestat
08-11-2005, 07:13 AM
you cant find the 1 t ? dude go into dram configuration is has it right there...

reset your bios using the jumper also but 99% of the time you dont have to.



and im tellin you what fellas this 1.a3 whatever is total crap

its doing the same :banana::banana::banana::banana: the 1.9 does it REFUSES to boot to a cdrom a hard drive OR a floppy!!!

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AARRRRGGGGG i cant even reflash... last time i tried the 1.9 it took over 2 hours to get into a floppy to boot up.......

omg!!! screw that bios. Sideeffect.. YES the temps are there and the temp bug is also there!.. man oh man what a crap bios..

sideeffect
08-11-2005, 07:20 AM
use winflash lestat. Thanks for letting me know about the temps ill get them removed before i try to use it.

Im more interested in the supposed 166 divider fix that it provides. I get my ballistix back again tommorow. Sent them back 3 times so far. Hopefully ill get a good set this time.

Lestat
08-11-2005, 07:31 AM
i cant use anything now cuz the f u c k e r wont boot to ANYTHING!!! omg you have no idea its the same anger as if you had a failed flash without a backup chip

right now the only thing it will boot to is memtest floppy and i have no idea why..
it wont boot to my hard drive,, it wont boot to ANY cd not even the XP cd.. it says it is but then nothing happens.
the only thing thats happening is memtest floppy and it boots to grub once i choose a selection in grub nothing happens it just sits at a blank screen...
with a floppy,, a dos floppy it reads the floppy but nothing happens.. my gawd i cant be the only one this happens too...

this is the same b.s. that 1.9 did to me and there was no fix it just all the sudden went to a floppy for no reason.. damn it i dont have the time for this this morning!!!
i need in my pc

im on the g/f system right now

Lestat
08-11-2005, 07:37 AM
there its in a floppy now

all i did was unhook my Raptor and my the hard drive hooked to my promise TX2 133 IDE controller

so one of those things it definately does NOT like...

so im done with this bios regardless of stability or what it can and cant do .. if it fails cuz of my raptor OR promise ide card i have no use for it... i need both of those items..

well back to 1.36 Rev 4 for more benching

sideeffect just so you know

temp bug is still there
-12v is STILL friggin being reported as 7v
USB memory crap is still there that needs to flippin go
there are NO 1/2 cpu multipliers
the "above 200mhz" Memory options are there but all they give you are 100, 133,100,100 they are worthless not sure why they are there.
oops forgot.
the IR function is always on just like before...

other than that there are some nice memory options but since i cant even bench with the bios i have no way of knowing how well they work

Millyons
08-11-2005, 07:47 AM
Im serious there is no 1/2T option in bios and i flashed to 1.8rev3 and cleared it fo like 30min with psu unpluged and still nothing, mabey its my E6 rev CPU

Lestat
08-11-2005, 07:55 AM
are you using a san diego or venice ? or X2 ?

1T 2T has nthing to do with your CPU,, menaing if 1T 2T is showing.


reflash it... hit f! to reboot... once you get into the post screen.. and its going thru post power off.

reset the bios with the jumper. - you only need to set the jumper to reset for 5 sec's actually 1 sec,, thats all it takes.. but i do 5 sec. then go into the bios and see if its there.

my chip is an E3 and i see it just fine..

you should have memory freq - 200 166 - 133 - 100
1T 2T auto
2 - 2.5 - 3
and then the other three... in that order...

do you see the other memory options ?

h4nc0
08-11-2005, 07:57 AM
Does the 1.A3Mod by Syar have the no temp mod added. If someone using it could go into bios and look and see if it shows the cpu temp and mainboard temp etc or not please.

I cant flash a bios with temps showing because it wont work.


temp shows. so no temp mod.

Millyons
08-11-2005, 08:06 AM
are you using a san diego or venice ? or X2 ?

1T 2T has nthing to do with your CPU,, menaing if 1T 2T is showing.


reflash it... hit f! to reboot... once you get into the post screen.. and its going thru post power off.

reset the bios with the jumper. - you only need to set the jumper to reset for 5 sec's actually 1 sec,, thats all it takes.. but i do 5 sec. then go into the bios and see if its there.

my chip is an E3 and i see it just fine..

you should have memory freq - 200 166 - 133 - 100
1T 2T auto
2 - 2.5 - 3
and then the other three... in that order...

do you see the other memory options ?


ill reflash but ya thats how i flash except i left it of for a while cause i had to do something, i got all those settings except the Comand rate, the cpu is E6 Venice, so thats like a single core manchester i think

Lestat
08-11-2005, 08:23 AM
hhmm interesting go grab the 1.8 w/ San diego fix that will force 1T no matter what

D3kMatrix
08-11-2005, 08:27 AM
hhmm interesting go grab the 1.8 w/ San diego fix that will force 1T no matter what

Agreed, I was about to recommend the same thing.

Millyons
08-11-2005, 08:30 AM
god its just a hasle cause i dont got a fdd on there, got to burn CD for every different bios

is there a way to stick various bioses on one CD and flash, since i make a bootable fdd and burn that, if i add files to the cd it cant see them after without cdrom drivers and ofcourse i cant copy more than 1.4mb to a fdd

Lestat
08-11-2005, 08:36 AM
wow guy ebay yourself a floppy or head down to walmart if you got one.
technically if you have a USB thumb drive just throw the bootable files on that and it will boot into dos that way

Floppies arent going away anytime soon. although they been talking about it for the last 5 years

you can also ebay yourself a usb floppy.

use a cd-rw lol

if you have an old win98 disk boot up to that and choose boot to dos ,,, then when your there if you have a hard drive that has a fat32 partition just browse to that and flash from a hard drive...


use winflash i dont like it but i have never had anything bad happen..

just be sure to check reset cmos

Millyons
08-11-2005, 09:16 AM
hehe i got a fdd its just im my main system and i dont feel like taking it out, unfortinatly i dont have any cdrw atm so i got to do it like this...............but that is not important....

more important for this thread is that even with 1.80rev3 1T bios it still puts it 2T and i dont have an option of changing it, i flashed to 1a3 mod now to see what it does since the 1.9 brought rev E6 cpu support.............with initial teseting (posting :) ) with 1.8rev3 board was going to around 380 htt