PDA

View Full Version : The OFFICIAL MSI K8N Neo2-939 tips and tricks guide thread



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

D3kMatrix
08-11-2005, 09:28 AM
LMK what you think about the 1.A3 MOD Millyons, I'm thinking about trying it because my CPU multi doesn't work with any of the 1.9 versions. And there is no 1.8 BIOS with all of extra memory timings unhidden.

Millyons
08-11-2005, 09:52 AM
well im just playing with it, i didnt want to flood the thread every min but its better for me, 1T works now, more options even though max HTT is around 360 (post) and multies work for me (well i only tried 5x and the stock 9)

Lestat
08-11-2005, 10:01 AM
millyons

what type of hard drive layout do you have ?

sata ide , ide controller card ?


i would like to flash with that bios again and trouble shoot why it caused my system to not boot.. it maybe somehting as simple as the Promise IDE card... but whats odd was that i had to disconnect power so the Promise bios wasnt loaded into memory.

i also did the raptor at the same time.. i wasnt thinking i was getting upset i should have done one at a time..

Millyons
08-11-2005, 10:04 AM
just one old hdd 20gb (with bad sectors :) ) and a CD rom since im just testing the parts and im just about to install win on there

edit: i flashed with awdfl833d


edit2: whats the temp bug with the Neo2 does it show higher temps or lower? and is there a way to monitor vdimm ?

sideeffect
08-11-2005, 10:27 AM
It shows higher temps like 265 degrees. With 1.6 - 1.8 bios the bios will lock up when i try to view temperature in bios when it reads 265. In 1.9 and after bios the bios setup wont even load.

So if bios wont load i cant set settings and so ussually cant get to windows or anything.

No way to monitor vdimm from windows or bios. But you can use a digital multimeter to measure vdimm look back a few pages for pics.

Millyons
08-11-2005, 10:34 AM
thanks, i guess i dont have a temp bug, thaught i might since cpu is 40c stock in bios, but its a stock cooler (i guess i forgot it sux :) )

sideeffect
08-11-2005, 12:44 PM
The e6 Venice are single core manchesters. The original venice was a E3 the san diego i have no idea if its E6 or E4/5.

So the E6 does have the 1T issue just like the san diego. So you can use 1.8 with 1t fix or the 1.9/1.A3 bios files to use 1T or just force it on start up using athlon 64 tweaker.

Good news is the E6 venice cpus look to be great cpus and will do good clocks on less voltages than the E3 venice cpus.

edit = cpu-z says san diego is E4, Revision = SH-E4

Millyons
08-11-2005, 01:01 PM
1.8 1T fix was no good either, 1a3 is dope, but for now my cpu doesnt seem to be too great i just tried 2600 and with 1.55v its erroring after few min in prime, the temps went up to alsmost 65c but thats on a stock newcastle heatsink so well see when i put everything in my case and stick my XP90 on it

Lestat
08-11-2005, 01:05 PM
thats really wierd man that 1T thing./..

when you boot does it say your memory is 2.5-3-3-8 1T or whatever you have it set to in the bios.

I've never heard of the 1T/2T actually missing.

Millyons
08-11-2005, 01:10 PM
ya all the settings were as i set them but like i said i had no 1T option after few reflashes and clearing bios few times, even with battery out, psu unpluged and drained

Lestat
08-11-2005, 01:17 PM
thanks for the info sideeffect thats defiantely good to know.

Millyons
08-11-2005, 02:36 PM
one disapointment is lack of power on by keyboard :( (or im blind)

Lestat
08-11-2005, 02:51 PM
no thats gone

syar2003
08-11-2005, 02:52 PM
no temp reporting in this mod BIOS version is also availible .

Revision 1A3 MOD4

Links/info through this post
http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=59711.0

sideeffect
08-11-2005, 03:07 PM
Thankyou syar2003.

The 1T fix bios wont show 1T on bios boot. It will however be set by the time you get into windows. You can check this by opening up a64 tweaker.

65 degrees at 1.55 volts and 2700 mhz seems very high. Are you sure the heatsink is mounted correctly. I got lower temps with my san diego on air and that was with stock cooling at 1.52 volts 2750mhz and the san diego has the extra l2 cache warming things up.

The E6 cores are manchester based so they have a starting voltage of 1.3 volts not 1.4 like the other venice chips so they shouldnt need the vcore.

Try reaplying the heatsink pehaps change the stock fan for a 80mm fan and then set volts to 1.4 volts and overclock from there. I bet the errors your getting are from heat rather than the cpu not being able to do 2.7ghz.

there is another thread about the max heat limits of the cpus and a program has been made to show this. They think its something to do with how well the heatspreaders are applied and can effect your overclock so try out the tool HERE (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71044)

Millyons
08-11-2005, 03:19 PM
no thats gone


dont tell me it was in there and they took it out? :(



>>>>sideeffect

k mabey the 1.8rev3 1T worked then, i used it before i installed windows, now im on the 1a3 mod and i like it for the timmings, and also one strange thing with the 1.8 and the 1.3 (that was stock on the mobo) is that my CDrom wasnt getting detected most of the time on secondary or primary chanel but with 1a3 its all good.

ya it does seem a bit high for that cpu to run like that i heard they were pretty cool running, but it must be cause of my setup under my desk on the mobo box and no other fans around, anyway like i said in next couple of days its going in the case and i have a XP90 so well see what it does, my Newcastle with 1.75v goes up to 50c with it.........i just got to decide will i use my ddr booster or just do the 3.3 rail mod, just annoying that i cant monitor vdimm

msimax
08-11-2005, 05:01 PM
i have been fighting with this mb for a long time this bios is the best yet it does every thing i put at it.. and also i use winflash all the time never once had a issue just make sure u click every option. and the the 1t is in there





http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3015/itworks6wl.gif (http://imageshack.us) http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/3012/imga00107ho.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

sideeffect
08-11-2005, 05:07 PM
i would use the DDR booster the motherboard doesnt like the rails being changed as lestat will vouch for.

You can monitor vdimm by using a digital multimeter check this picture

HERE (http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/ne2p/vdimm.jpg)

I think youll find its set .05 volts above what the bios sets. So 2.75 volts will be 2.8 volts real.

sideeffect
08-11-2005, 05:10 PM
i have been fighting with this mb for a long time this bios is the best yet it does every thing i put at it.. and also i use winflash all the time never once had a issue just make sure u click every option. and the the 1t is in there



Nice clock msimax. Tell me were you having problems with the 166 divider before using 1.A3 bios? I have problems with my 166 divider and i hope this bios will sort it out ill try it tommorow.

Lestat
08-11-2005, 05:26 PM
jesus chrsit dude your desktop is not a download and storage location.. you know what having that much crap on your desktop does ? wow....

clean that crap up and use shortcuts


oh and btw ... i hate you and your friggin Negative cpu temperatures ... :P

msimax
08-11-2005, 05:38 PM
i was havin probs. it would go to 265htt anything after that it would radom reboot so i used to set it at 260 with the 166div and then i win i used clockgen to bring me back up but its pain to do that all the time. now it boots all the time at 320htt 166 div. i never had this prob till i got 1gig memory i used to use 2x256 bh5 so now i happy for now :) :)

Budwise
08-11-2005, 07:58 PM
my HTT seems to crap out at a measily 270. If i isolate the board it fails Prime at that speed and SuperPi goes out the window too. I may just have to sell my AGP card and this mobo and get a DFI with a PCIE...

sideeffect
08-12-2005, 06:24 AM
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Finally got some good memory from Crucial and am now stable at a decent enough clock so i can chill out now. Ram has flashing LED's too :stick:

http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios//cpu-z.jpg

Cpu-z validation (http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=32314)

Lestat
08-12-2005, 07:30 AM
i hate you dude i really do...

and i hate my 3200 venice

dont tell me 250 is the best you can get out of the XMS extreme

all i want is one good chip and i'll be at peace with myself.


*sidenote*

hey how were your results with the 1.36 Rev 4 im getting slightly better memory and cpu clocks out of it. vs the 1.8 rev 3.

my mushkin redline 4000 should be here today woot woot!!!

lysyn
08-12-2005, 07:46 AM
K8N NEO2 Plat. (7025) 1.A4 BETA


http://forum-g.msi.com.tw/thread.php?postid=141544#post141544

Lestat
08-12-2005, 08:02 AM
so far they are saying its no different from 1.a3

Quickboot still does not work properly, which means it still counts memory.
Deactivating IDE channels does not work, one guy deactivated unused IDE channels went back in and they were active again.

other than that have to wait longer to see what they say.

i for one dont see this as being anything more than a redone. refuxor'd 1.9 maybe good for X2's but only for certain people.

nweibley
08-12-2005, 01:08 PM
If I'm still on the older BIOSes with a Venice do I have anything to gain by switching to these new (seemingly unstable) ones?

sideeffect
08-12-2005, 01:15 PM
yes instability.

Lestat
08-12-2005, 01:42 PM
INstability lol

hey nweibley

im using the 1.36 Rev 4 modded bios and its working great. i was using the 1.8 rev 3 and it worked good but for ME atleast the 1.36 works better. slightly better not a huge amount but it is giving metter ram speeds and cpu speeds. meaning clocking higher.

D3kMatrix
08-12-2005, 01:44 PM
If I'm still on the older BIOSes with a Venice do I have anything to gain by switching to these new (seemingly unstable) ones?

What BIOS? and are u having problems?

harpyboy
08-12-2005, 02:59 PM
If I'm still on the older BIOSes with a Venice do I have anything to gain by switching to these new (seemingly unstable) ones?

1.9 and 1.Ax, the newer bios, don't seems to work better than the old ones..

although for the past week i have been running 1.9mod official and 1.A3 the last 2 days.. i didn't notice any problems so far.

Mrk200
08-12-2005, 06:46 PM
Has anyone managed ~230mhz on the memory with tight timings while using a divider? I picked up some value VX and a booster, and even 200mhz at 2-2-2-5 fails when using a divider (both 133 and 166), yet I can go to 230 1:1. I'm currently using 1.8rev3 bios.

Perhaps I should have gone with some tcc5/tccd. :(

Edit: After more testing, memtest works without errors at 230 1:1 2-2-2-10 and I can boot into windows, however, I can't even run SuperPI at 200 1:1 with 2-2-2-10. Any ideas?

Millyons
08-12-2005, 11:54 PM
more voltage?

DrJay
08-13-2005, 01:10 AM
Does any bios report accurate temps. for Venice?

desolator
08-13-2005, 03:38 AM
Hey sideeffect

dude i have a very similar combo, as in the rams and board is same, only im on a 3500+ venice

could u give me details of ur settings and bios, the default bios wnt even boot 220 FSB :(

im on crucial ballistix PC4000, any help would be appreciated, i need a bios recomendation?

also should i stick to 2T or move to 1T?

and could some 1 tell me the default volts for a venice 3500+

Thank You all
ali

DrJay
08-13-2005, 03:54 AM
Hey sideeffect

dude i have a very similar combo, as in the rams and board is same, only im on a 3500+ venice

could u give me details of ur settings and bios, the default bios wnt even boot 220 FSB :(

im on crucial ballistix PC4000, any help would be appreciated, i need a bios recomendation?

also should i stick to 2T or move to 1T?

and could some 1 tell me the default volts for a venice 3500+

Thank You all
ali

Default Vcore should fall between 1.36 and 1.38 volts.

Lestat
08-13-2005, 06:56 AM
and do NOT run 2T your performance will suck balls. since you have pc4000 you should be able to run 250mhz at whatever the ram says is defulat cas timings and volts. i dont recall if ballistix is old bh5 or new tccd.
if iot fails then drop your cpu multiplier down and down so that the cpu stays at stock.

you more than likely either got bad ram or a bad overclocking cpu.

do some testing to find out which one it is.


right now i have my mushkin redline pc4000 BH-5 running just fine 260 2-2-2-5

i am also noticing that the system doesnt like a memory divider for whatever reason.


dont forget that the value vX requires lots of juice. even though your running on a divider it shouldnt need extra volts BUT! ask in the OCZ section this is the wrong place. i think the ram rejects it.. i dont think they like dividers but i could be wrong.
my redline is goofy i havent come close to figuring it out.

sideeffect
08-13-2005, 08:38 AM
Hey sideeffect

dude i have a very similar combo, as in the rams and board is same, only im on a 3500+ venice

could u give me details of ur settings and bios, the default bios wnt even boot 220 FSB :(

im on crucial ballistix PC4000, any help would be appreciated, i need a bios recomendation?

also should i stick to 2T or move to 1T?

and could some 1 tell me the default volts for a venice 3500+

Thank You all
ali

Hi desolator what type of Ballistix are they cause it makes a difference. Look at the packaging if it ends in 503 then they are rated cas 3 at ddr500. If it ends in 505 they are rated at cas 2.5 at ddr500.

I have tried both and they are the hardest ram ever to get stable on the neo 2 in my opinion. Totally illogical ram.

The 503 will be single sided if they are 512mb sticks. The 505 will be double sided.

503 sticks wont do cas 2.5 at anything decent but will do cas 3 up to the 270 mhz range. 1T or 2T makes no difference. Use 1.8 rev 3 bios. set cas 3 trp 3 trcd 3 tras 8 in bios. Set 1:1 and set voltage at 2.7 volts. Set 250 HTT and 3x HTT multi and they should boot.

505 sticks set cas 2.5 trp 3 trcd 3 tras 8 2.7 volts, 250 htt 1:1.

The neo 2 overvolts the ram and the ballistix dont really like voltage so 2.65 volts or 2.7 is the best bet.

Ballistix dont really like any of the dividers except 183 so try and stick to 1:1 if possible.

503 sticks clock better for mhz got mine up to 273mhz @ 2.65 volts. They only work in cas 3 though.

505 sticks limit at about 260mhz but at 2.5. Cas 3 doesnt help.

Millyons
08-13-2005, 01:34 PM
Since 3.3v rail = vdimm mod is soldered to the cap does that stabilise the voltage or does it stay the same as 3.3 rail, mine fluctuates over .1v under load so wouldnt really like my vdimm to act like that. Unfortinatly im not sure how good my booster is also since i tested it long time ago on a abit AN7 and it was fluctuating over .2v witch is even worse, so im stuck dont know what to do before i stick everything in the case. I guess ill end up soldering a wire to the measuring point and seeing what is more stable.

Millyons
08-13-2005, 01:41 PM
i would use the DDR booster the motherboard doesnt like the rails being changed as lestat will vouch for.

You can monitor vdimm by using a digital multimeter check this picture

HERE (http://www.frontiernet.net/~hill195/ne2p/vdimm.jpg)

I think youll find its set .05 volts above what the bios sets. So 2.75 volts will be 2.8 volts real.


lestat what can u tell me about this that the mobo doesnt like the rails being changed? and what are u running with the BH5 booster or mod?

desolator
08-13-2005, 06:24 PM
Spread Spectrum disabled
htt multi lowered to 3x
Multi's tried 8x-11x
vcore tried: 1.38-1.47
vdimm: 2.7/2.65
Bios Upgraded to 1.9 (latest)
ram tried in all 4 slots

still no boot above 215 fsb :(

btw there is this thing in dram config called
maxmemclock which was 200 by default, i figured tht was holding me back so i upped tht to 250, still no diff :S, any 1 got more details on max memclock?

some 1 help me :(

Lestat
08-13-2005, 06:47 PM
well

1)
if you had read even the last page and a 1/2 of this forum you'd know that 1.9 is crap
2)
you'd also know that 250mhz does absolutely nothing but drop your memory down to 100mhz
3)
you sound as if you have a long road ahead of you for learning about these systems and what it takes ot overclock it.

You cant just raise the fsb and expect things to work. or raise the vdimm and vcore a :banana::banana::banana::banana:hair.

how about you start out by actually listing what your hardware is so we inturn know what directions to give you.

you need to go to the overclocking section also, those guys there are gunna be the ones who will be able to help you, this section is specific to the NEO2 board.
your issue is, and im sorry, a lack of knowledge.

again i didnt mena to ofend you, sometimes i just dont have the mentallity to sit and write out a novel for you to read where i try and show you every little step that you need to learn in order to overclock your system properly.

k ? dont be offended.

L

TMM
08-13-2005, 06:55 PM
lestat what can u tell me about this that the mobo doesnt like the rails being changed? and what are u running with the BH5 booster or mod?
with 1.9bios the board will fail to boot with out of spec rails (3.3v, 5v, 12v). with 1.8 or below bioses its fine.

Millyons
08-13-2005, 07:07 PM
thanks TMM.

Does someone know does vdimm become just like 3.3 rail or is it more stable since the rail is soldered to the capacitor, does that stabilize it or is there same fulctuations on the vdimm as on the 3.3 rail

thanks

Lestat
08-13-2005, 07:07 PM
Millyons -

There will ALWAYS be fluctuations in the vcore and vdimm. the only way around it is to do a hardware mod with really good voltage regulators installed.
normally people will get a .01 all the way up to .1 fluctuations.
.1 is bad,,, this will definately cause lockups and reboots.

I am running with the DDR Booster

i have the OCZ Powerstream 600watt and if i raise my 12v 3.3v or 5v rails out of spec. then the system ,, or rahter the bios goes pfpfpfpfpf and no boot.

right now i may try the 1.a3b4 as i need to experiement with the boot sequencer.

i have a Promise TX2 IDE controller. If i hook one of the drives up to it the system will not boot to anything, only the memtest floppy,,
A dos floppy wont boot, linux wont boot ( Grub WILL LOAD, but thats all, which makes it even more goofy, like very very goofy), Windows wont boot, Windows CdRom wont boot. for some reason only the memtest86 floppy will boot.
But once i disconnected my Raptor hooked to SATA 3, and the hard drive connected to the Promise controller it booted fine.
I should have done one at a time but i was getting angry cuz i was afraid i would never boot to anything like the romchip was toast.

desolator
08-13-2005, 07:14 PM
err sorry sir :$

oh well, never too late to start, and btw this is only my second system tht id be OCing, first was an intel tht i OCed totally with a friends help so expec me to be majorly n00bissh

ok so my specs:
Amd 3500+ VENICE week 19
MSI K8N NEO2
Leadtek 6200 128mb 128bit (unlcokable pipes)
crappy generic 40 watt psu, 16a on the 12v rail, 25A on both 3,3 and 5V
200GB seagate IDE
and air cooled case, with stock amd hsf for now

and the reason i dint get 1.9 is, tht i don have a formatted floppy ryte now with me, so i cnt do the bootable floppy trick, instead i just used live update for windows, and i dint get an option to install 1.8 tht way

ill try n read up more on the OC section,

so please, help me, enlighten me
thanx ali

Lestat
08-13-2005, 09:14 PM
ok

1)
you will never do anything with a psu like that so forget everything until you can afford a psu. MINIMUM 25v on the 12v rail.
Go to Newegg and grab a Zippy/Emacs PSU they are very generic looking but underthe hood is ohh so very much NOT generic,
2)
you need to list your ram.
3)
the cpu only supports up to 1.45v so set that and then use the 3.3% over VID.
3a)
you should be able to overclock the CPU up to and past 2.5ghz with only 1.4-1.45v
this is normal pretty much all venice chips can do it.
4)
If you have tccd based ram then you can overclock with 2.6 or 2.7 or 2.8v on the ram, up to 250mhz or higher 2.5-3-3-10 set the mem freguency at 200. not 166 or 133 or anything else.
5)
turn off spread spectrum
turn off aggressive timing
turn off ATI.Nvidia speedup


your really not gunna be able to do much with a yucky psu like that. i really dont recommend doing anything but running stock speeds until you can upgrade that.

what type and kind of ram do you have and what sizes, 256 ? 512 ? does it have chips on 1 side or both sides of each stick ?
what slots do you have them in you want them in the 2 slots closest to the cpu aka slots 0 and 1.

start there, let us know the ram and gog et a better psu tomorrow is you have a good pc shop in town and can afford it.

DrJay
08-13-2005, 09:47 PM
MINIMUM 25v on the 12v rail.

:D :D :D

desolator
08-13-2005, 09:49 PM
err sorry fornot mentoning the rams
i got Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC4000, i knw they aint great, but were the only 1s avilable locally, and i should also let u knw i do not reside in the us rather in Pakistan, thts why im on a crappy generic PSU, the only branded 1s here are antec which are ripoffs. Like $170 for a 550 watt and $120 for 480 watts :S
im ok with keeping it at stock for now, id be upgrading psu within nxt week hopefully, and also i was wondering is there anyway to update this boards bios thru windows, as in the odler versions.

and thnx for all the help lestat

Lestat
08-13-2005, 11:04 PM
yes you can download an duse Winflash.

ive only used it once long ago so i cant remember how to do it.. maybe one of the other guys can help ya.

you could always have an american or euro friend buy one and you pay him and ship it to you.. that would be cheaper maybe.

Lestat
08-13-2005, 11:22 PM
:D :D :D



lol hey if your gunna do it,, do it right...

FlyingHamster
08-16-2005, 07:10 PM
well guys, got some bad news. :( would appreciate it if u guys could help me out

I had been using the 1.36b bios and decided to give the 1.80 R3 MOD by NFM a try. I downloaded it and flashed using winflash (loaded optimized defaults before and after flash), but now windows wont load. everything stops loading after it POSTs and loads the raid array thing, and all i see is a little dash flashing on the screen. did i corrupt my bios? does my gskill tccd have anything to do with it?

any help would be greatly appreciated

D3kMatrix
08-16-2005, 07:26 PM
Hamster, My G.Skills won't run at the timings used in the R3 MOD BIOS. I tested them with A64 tweaker before flashing.

Yours might not like them either...

Are you still able to boot off a floppy? If so try flashing to a BIOS that doesn’t have modded timings.

FlyingHamster
08-16-2005, 07:31 PM
ah yes, I can boot off a floppy, good call D3kMatrix. :) cant believe I didnt think of that next, musta had a brain fart

I know this has prolly been asked a thousand times, but can someone PLZ give me the instructions to go about flashing from a floppy, like what I need on the floppy and what the command to flash is?

Lestat
08-16-2005, 07:33 PM
hey hamster do you have APIC enabled or disabled ?

If indows was loaded with APIC ENABLED then you MUST have it enabled now or windows wont load.

hhmm what else...

did you reset with the jumper ? if not do so and then reflash again.

personally hamster my pc4800 OCZ Plat worked better with the 1.36 rev 4 by NFM
i havent tried 1.8 R3 yet with the mushkin but i wont be able right now as the mushkin is having some issues..

but the ocz definately got a few more bumps from the 1.35 r3.

Also.. i havent seen any issues with the TCCD/5 not liking the 1.8 infact just the opposite. as long as you reset the bios with the jumper it should work.

dont forget the raid stuff isnt set up properly after you flash along with a few other items.

try booting from a floppy does it do the same thing ? what about a cd ? if it does then its doing the same crap that the 1.9 bios does to me

unplug any uneeded ide or sata drives and only use what you need just to test.

Lestat
08-16-2005, 07:41 PM
AWFL833D biosname /py/sn/wb/cc/cd/cp/f

use awfl833d for 1.8 and below use awfl852 or higher for 1.9 and above

dont forget your limited to the 8 character dos limits so rename the bios to whatever. but if it shows as 180mod~1 in dos then the bios flash wont work cuz it wont see 180modrev3.bin if you use that in the command line so name it a shart name

Lestat
08-16-2005, 07:47 PM
oh and just so you know the timings are the exact same with 1.36 and 1.8 mod

if you were using the original MSI 1.36 then yes the timings are different.

arnemetis
08-16-2005, 08:16 PM
hey guys just wondering, is there any part of this mobo that would benefit from throwing some heatsinks on? I know people do this on some power regulation stuff in the past, dunno if theres any spots that would benefit? i see some little black ic's on the back of the board between the cpu socket and the rear io panel for example... I've got some stuff left over from a worthless purchase...heat spreaders for my ram. not only did the crappy retention brackets make the spreaders go on like /|\ instead of [|], but they came with these larger heat sink types as well, that are now useless to me. Just kidna bored, I don't think anything is overheating. (altho i will be water cooling soon and throwin more juice at my chip :D ) I still await a bios that may get around my chip's craptastic memory controller someday... :slapass:

Lestat
08-16-2005, 08:20 PM
yeah those are the only ones alone with any other chip opn the board.

there really isnt any benefit that i know of but it definately isnt gunna hurt to put them on... nope wont hurt at all but you wont see any improvements that i have ever seen from adding them.

mail them to me i could use them :)

Sonic9
08-17-2005, 04:36 AM
Hi all, there are my settings actually after few weeks of testing :(

Venice 3000+
Corsair PC3200 XLpT (chips TCCDs) 2x512M
Bios 1.A3MOD4 modded
http://sonic9.free.fr/sonic/PhotosPC/stable320.jpg

Now I will continue with my new GeForce6800GT ... but I have "freezes" bug ...

@Lestat: With your 6800Ultra have you got lags ? especially with SPEAR demo, no ? thanks

Lestat
08-17-2005, 05:32 AM
Sonic the Freeze bug is the card RMA it. It's a known issue with 6800 cards mostly the GT but some Ultra's
Contact the card maker and RMA it.

If your overclocking the card lower the Overclock and it will go away.
also look into better cooling like a waterblock or the NVsilencer 5 Rev 2. that will take about 15c off the temps. Water will usually do more.

no lag issues for me but this entire system performas like crap in video benchmarks.
i had a 3200+ CG clawhammer and a 6800GT and i used to get 6200-6300 on 3Dmark 05 with this venice at 2.7 and either pc4800 or mushkin i only get a MAX of 5700.


Also why are you running your ram so low ? that ram shoudl be able to do way way better which will increase your all around performance. Also raise the cpu voltage a touch and go higher on the cpu. that chip will handle more even on air.

Sonic9
08-17-2005, 05:53 AM
Yes, I think my ram can do best but if I use 1:1 I can up to 250fsb (not rock stable with 1,65v too), with the 166divider not stable too, I will retest my overclock but atm I must fix my freezes before the guarantee done ... (excuse for my language ...)
What settings on your ram Lestat ?

Lestat
08-17-2005, 06:08 AM
Sonic i dont recommend you use that bios that bios is really only for X2 owners.

with your system i recommend using either 1.8 original or Rev 3 modded by NFM
or
1.36 Rev 4 by NFM

the 1.9 which is what the 1.ax bios is... is known for horrible overclocking and massive failure at 250mhz...

use the 1.8Rev3 or 1.36 rev 4 and i bet you get a stable and more reliable and higher overclock..
no guarentees but handle your cpu voltages ram voltages and HTT and HTT multiplier properly and you'll be good to go.

cpu multi - 10x
HTT Multi - 3x or 2.5x
HTT - 250mhz
Ram Freq- 200mhz aka 1:1
Cas timings with your ram - 2.5-3-3-10 not 9 or 8 or 7 or 5 10 is best for NF3 boards. although 8 and 9 arent much difference but your ram may not like it.

cpu voltage 1.45
ram voltages 2.7 or 2.8 for tCCD

try out that bios i mentioned and see what happens guy... that bios really is crap and is not helping you, its hurting you.

Sonic9
08-17-2005, 06:18 AM
okay I come back to 1.8nfm ... and I havn't the 3000+ unlocked ;) ... so I will test with x9 ... thanks for tras tip.

Goodbye.

Millyons
08-17-2005, 07:54 AM
Lestat do you got a link about the 1.ax bioses and how they act since i used it for a bit and didnt notice anything u described, only that htt droped from 37x ish to 36x ish

Lestat
08-17-2005, 09:11 AM
all you gotta do is look thru this thread, pcperspective and the msi forums to see all the poo about the 1.9bbios tne 1.a3 is better but still shows alot of the same issues.

Sonic.

i dont know what you mean by you dont have the 3000 unlocked ?
maybe you just mant you havent tried other mutlipliers ? lol ?

you said you would try 9x have you been running on 8x or something ? again that will alow for higher HTT and memory but you loose cpu speed which with AMD 64's is key ,, the faster the cpu the faster the memory thruput. i mean thats the same for almost all cpu's but the amd64's really kick in with high cpu speeds giving high memory speeds.
atleast thats been my testing results.

Sonic9
08-17-2005, 03:57 PM
cpu multi - 10x (typo I think ...)
HTT Multi - 3x or 2.5x
HTT - 250mhz
Ram Freq- 200mhz aka 1:1
Cas timings with your ram - 2.5-3-3-10 not 9 or 8 or 7 or 5 10 is best for NF3 boards. although 8 and 9 arent much difference but your ram may not like it.

cpu voltage 1.45
ram voltages 2.7 or 2.8 for tCCD

try out that bios i mentioned and see what happens guy... that bios really is crap and is not helping you, its hurting you.

re, I have the 1.3b6 Rev4's NFM bios and I have tested this :

260mhz sync 2.5/3/3/10 cpu@1,45v ram@2,7v (htt3x) [multi x9]
In OCCT about 2 min to make error. the cpu is around 2,34ghz so it's too bad ... with that :
8x320 async133 (ram215) 2/3/2/10 same voltage htt3x.
In OCCT fully passe 30min test. the cpu is around 2,56ghz and the high fsb and frequency make more perfs, it's my result ...

The new divider (216,233 ...) is intersting to testing the ram I think but doesn't work here, anyone can use those dividers ?

I have a friend with DFI nf4 / OCZ VX ... I will do some test with his platform this weekend ...

Lestat
08-17-2005, 04:18 PM
if your ram is TCCD and your at 260mhz on an NF3 board you need to be @ 2.8v
2.7v isnt gunna work. now someone else may say differnetly but the nforce 3 boards,, its been my experience are really goofy with TCCD ram. but that may just be me and my crappy board.

if your running 1.45v @ 2.58ghz that is really good keep going.

my 3200+ if i go 2.6 i have to go to more volts so..

those 3000 chips are magic they overclock really good.

Sonic9
08-17-2005, 04:28 PM
I think too my tccd don't like my msi ... another friend has DFI/nf4 and runs 300mhz with same tccd (not mine but other same model) @2,7v but just in memtest (no errors) but impossible to boot in windows xp :(
I want to test some others ram but it's hard to find someone has this ...

(question: I'm french and it's 01h24min AM here, what about you Lestat ?)

Lestat
08-17-2005, 04:30 PM
its 1825 here 6:25pm i am Central Time -6 GMT

i have had 3 sets of TCCD on this mobo and they all hate this mobo. but i can take the same ram,, atleast my old gskill LA and put it on a DFI board and it loves it.

BowedToothDoc
08-17-2005, 05:48 PM
I know that this question may be a little OT but I just got a new Logitech 5:1 speaker system from DELL and my digital sound outputs are not working! Any help appreciated and if you want a killer speaker system for your PC check out slickdeals.net on how to get the Logitech system from DELL. You can also get a color printer for 4$

Lestat
08-17-2005, 06:11 PM
ahhh the Z5500's i have the Z5300's and those jack a$$e$ at logitech screwed us all out og digital.

you also need to install the proper realtek drivers, enable them in the bios and then you must choose the digital output in the realtek driver control panel, the little icon down by your clock for the realtek controls, not the little speaker.

the best way i have found to do the realtek stuff with digital is to put it on autosense. you will see it.
and then be sure to put it at 5.1 speakres or some actually call them 6 channel instead of 5.1 the .1 is the sub so they just call it channel 6.

anyways thats how you make it work as long as your speakers actually have a digital input. otherwise you have to use all the color coded ones. which will match the colors of the cables on your speaker plugs.

btw your not gunna get much better quality with the crappy realtek sound chip when you use digital. with analog you still get all the dolby digital sound and all that, its just converted to analog, you might get a slight better bass and treble but thats all. and then you have to have a nice set of speakers to notice it.

BowedToothDoc
08-17-2005, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. The system acutally has both optical and coaxial digital inputs but I guess that I have never downloaded the proper drivers unless they came with the MOBO. Anyway I will see what I can do.
Thanks Again.

Lestat
08-17-2005, 06:35 PM
yeah they would have come with the mobo but they are REALLLLYYYYYY old

go to realtek's site or jsut as easy go to MSI's site and grab the latest from there.

the realtek site is gunna have the newest so maybe check their first just make sure you ge tthe right realtek chipset first.

BowedToothDoc
08-17-2005, 06:44 PM
Thanks,
How do you enable the drivers in the bios? I downloaded the most recent drivers and wnnt into the bios and could not find a place to enable?

BowedToothDoc
08-17-2005, 07:16 PM
OK,
I found it in the bios and it is enabled. But syill not working for me.

Tyrvidar
08-18-2005, 01:12 AM
Ok I am at 2.2 ghz steady on a Venice 3000+ with 2.5 cl on the ram I get a blue screen every now and then. How should I go about tweaking my ram and keeping the 2.5 cl. It is 2.0 Plat OCZ Rev. 2. Setting suggestions?

Should I just set it to 3.0 to crank it up to 2.4 and beyond? I'm not too familar with tweaking the ram much more then just changing the CL

Sonic9
08-18-2005, 05:47 AM
Try to change other Trcd / Trp / Tras, with 2.5/4/4/10 you have bad timings but you can test high clocks ...

Sonic9
08-18-2005, 07:21 AM
I re-switch to 1.A3 mod4 by Syar ... not stable with 1.3b6 ... but the 1.A3 seems to have a coldboot bug (with high fsb) ... I will do some test before confirm it.

msimax
08-18-2005, 09:26 PM
does anyone know of a ovp mod for adj the vore i just did it but when i go higher than 1.8 it just reboots

Lestat
08-18-2005, 11:33 PM
thats cuz your cpu wont handle it dude
none of the amd64 cpu's will handle that kind of voltage unless your on vapo

but the mobo itself maynot handle that high.

now i maybe totlly wrong,, but ive tried it and the same thing happens.
1.8 is just insane and even alot of vapo chillers dont even go that high

kta
08-19-2005, 10:45 AM
Hello all neo2 users.
I have been now reading about the bests bios with venice and tccd memorys.
But im still in same place...what bios shuld i use too get best o/c?
Im now with 1.36mod bios old 1:(
And i cant hit over 300HTT and i cant use htx2 or ht x2.5 but x3 and x4 and x5 works nice when i need too changes.
My comp want boot with x2 or x2.5 in ht:(
So please what bios shuld i try?
And where cant i get it from?(link)
EDIT:
I use TT bigwater cpu cooler to get my temps ok..if that helsp to find good bios for me.
//kTa

Lestat
08-19-2005, 10:55 AM
ok first

1)
whats your CPU ? what voltages are you using ?
1:1 your not gunna get that high of an HTT value. if you can get 300mhz 1:1 then bro you are lucky. Thats personal experience and also research talking. The neo2 just dont go that high 1:1
run the ram on a 166 divier and drop your cpu down to 8x and run the HTT @ 2.5x see what happens, then try the same but change to 133mhz ram.
TCCD ram needs 2.85 or 2.9 or 2.95v on this board to go that high. 1:1 and most of the time you wont get that high anyways.
2)
what ram do you have ? what voltages and what timings are you using.
3)
i personally recommend and the other guys will probably agree. use the NFM bios's 1.8 rev 3 or 1.36 rev 4. i am using the 1.36 rev 4 and its great. i get slight better overclock on BH5 and TCCD. plus it allows up to 1.8v cpu incase you have a cpu you want to fry ;)

i can run 370mhz HTT 7x cpu multi and ram @ 133mhz. (for me 8x multi is the sweet spot but 7x is perfect also)
cas timings are totally dependant on your ram. tccd start with 2.3-3-10 and then 2.5-4-3-10 then 2.5-4-4-10 then 3-4-4-10 until you find the spot that works best. btw the way there is absolutely no speed difference in 2.5-4 and 2.5-3 none i did a bunch of tests last night and the only thing it does is cause the ram to be a little tighter and cause errors if you have a high mhz ram like 265mhz+ switch to 2.5-4-3-10 you wont loose speed but it relaxes the ram and should let you go higher HTT

Vega
08-19-2005, 10:58 AM
Hi,

What chipset drive do you recommend for this mobo?
Right now I use 5.03

Lestat
08-19-2005, 11:02 AM
chipset drive lol i was like huh? you meant DRIVER...

for me,, i recommend the 4.27 or the 5.10 or whatever it is right off nvidia's website.
If you use the 7.x those are designed for nforce4 boards and some people make them work good but i have had issues if i install them.
the 5.x drivers have an IDE bug that causes the system not to boot when you have certain DVD-CD roms installed,, you have to unplug them for windows to boot. If you dont have that issue then dont worry but my Lite-On dvd burner is one of the drives with issues with these drivers.

frankly if your happy with the drivers now your not really going to get any increase by going to a newer driver. the 5.10 were the last official nforce 3 driver if i remember correctly.

kta
08-19-2005, 11:10 AM
ok first

1)
whats your CPU ? what voltages are you using ?
1:1 your not gunna get that high of an HTT value. if you can get 300mhz 1:1 then bro you are lucky. Thats personal experience and also research talking. The neo2 just dont go that high 1:1
run the ram on a 166 divier and drop your cpu down to 8x and run the HTT @ 2.5x see what happens, then try the same but change to 133mhz ram.
TCCD ram needs 2.85 or 2.9 or 2.95v on this board to go that high. 1:1 and most of the time you wont get that high anyways.
2)
what ram do you have ? what voltages and what timings are you using.
3)
i personally recommend and the other guys will probably agree. use the NFM bios's 1.8 rev 3 or 1.36 rev 4. i am using the 1.36 rev 4 and its great. i get slight better overclock on BH5 and TCCD. plus it allows up to 1.8v cpu incase you have a cpu you want to fry ;)

i can run 370mhz HTT 7x cpu multi and ram @ 133mhz. (for me 8x multi is the sweet spot but 7x is perfect also)
cas timings are totally dependant on your ram. tccd start with 2.3-3-10 and then 2.5-4-3-10 then 2.5-4-4-10 then 3-4-4-10 until you find the spot that works best. btw the way there is absolutely no speed difference in 2.5-4 and 2.5-3 none i did a bunch of tests last night and the only thing it does is cause the ram to be a little tighter and cause errors if you have a high mhz ram like 265mhz+ switch to 2.5-4-3-10 you wont loose speed but it relaxes the ram and should let you go higher HTT



1) I have a crapy 3000+ venice LBBLE 0519 DPIW @ 2610mhz 1.65v
2)I have G.Skill pc4400 (chip 440) @ 166 2.5-3-3-6 2.7v
So where can i find the 1.36 rev 4 bios?
I have tryed out now 4 or 5 diffrents cpus and i have big trubbles too get up to 300htt or more i have tryed 300x8or9 and i have tryed with x3ht lowest...if i go lower and my comp will not boot more:(
So i shuld try 1.36 rev 4bios?
//kTa

Vega
08-19-2005, 11:10 AM
Thanks Lestat,

I do actually have oc problem. I pass memtest fsb255 (2-2-2-8, 3.4V) but in windows i can only hit 237fsb stable!
Singelchannel is 260fsb (2-2-2-8, 3.4V)in Windows no problem!?
The CPU is not the problem.....

waiho2k1
08-19-2005, 01:25 PM
Anyone here using A64x2 in your NEO2? How's the o/c result? My 3800+ reached 2650MHz but any thing higher will leadd to unstable system.

Lestat
08-19-2005, 01:30 PM
Vega if your ram wont do 250mhz in windows RMA it.
or reload windows there could be a hardware issue caused by a driver thats doing it.

and go to 3.5v and try it the ram will hold 3.6v just fine.

waiho are you the one who posted the thread about the poopy oc'ing San Diego ? i saw someone had almost identicle results.

Sideeffect has a san diego and runs it at 3ghz no issues he says. so.
you must have got a bad overclocker.

i mean frankly guys the higher the chip number the worse it overclocks is what i have seen thats the same for winchesters, clawhammers, venice's, newcastles... they all seem to overclock bettter the lower the stock cpu is. maybe thats jsut me but i see that everywhere.

My 3200+ is a total turd, only hits 2.7 and its now unstable at 2.7 so the chip is dieing.

sideeffect
08-19-2005, 05:16 PM
heh no issues u say. Well i wouldnt say that i have issues all the time. To many issues to moan about them all day on forum ussually they can be solved.

Was reading over at msi german forum that maybe they found a way to unlock the 150 and 183 dividers in the 1.A4 bios. ALthough i think that those options are coming soon anyway in a future msi bios.

Im still using 1.8 at the moment will do until maybe 1.A5 is out i havnt tried any of the 1.A versions but ive heard some good things so am looking forward to testing it out.

Lestat
08-19-2005, 06:20 PM
well i didnt mean NO issues lol
more like no BIG issues that's keeping you from running your SD chip @ 3ghz lol.

bah i just dont trust MSI to make a bios anymore. i'm not sure who's coding them but they suck.

sideeffect
08-19-2005, 10:09 PM
What speed did you get the redline up to Lestat?

Im getting into my burning in. Seems to work :woot: im using windows memtest and i set voltage to the max so thats 2.85 volts then i run a ram setting that didnt work before leave memtest running even though it detects errors for a few hundred percent. Then i reboot at 2.8 volts and run test again and i swear the errors are gone.

Im still using this 166 divider and burning it in has i think made it usable. Cpu wont really do more than 3ghz it starts rebooting at 3070 + and errors like crazy over 3020 or so in super pi etc. So im focusing on tightning up the memory timings now.

Lestat
08-19-2005, 10:55 PM
not sure your runnig a divider on that ram. the DFI nf4 boards dont even let this ram run on a divider very well. the redline just doesnt work with dividers , even the Mushkin forums are filled with people upset that the ram doesnt like a divider. maybe they changed it in later rev's of the ram

The guy i got the ram from had it runnig at 265mhz @ 3.65v on an Ultra-D which is pretty much on par.

for your burn in Side Effect you need to run the ram at 250mhz 3.4v as thats the stock setting and voltage for the pc4000 redline. i dont know what the stock voltage is for the pc3500.
you arent going to get very far at all with only 2.85v you'll need a volt modded board or the ddr booster.

anyways run 250mhz 3.4v run prime overnight or set it and go to work. then raise the ram up 5 and leave the same voltages, and prime again. if it fails go to 3.45v and just keep raising the mhz until it fails then raise the voltages.

seriously though if you have mushkin that runs a divider good then i think you got a good set but i cant say if it will run a divider past 250mhz..

My mushkin died... 1 stick is dead and the other is failing with only a max setting of 260mhz 3.6v and prime failed right away so i rebooted and the stick was dead...
yanked that bad stick out and it booted up,, then ran 255 3.6v and it was ok went up to 260 and it seems solid for a while then the 2nd stick started dieing.

so basiclly i have 2 dead sticks. The guy i got them from has been a real champ about it and is taking this ram back and sending me some super Corsair PC3500 original BH5. he had that running 270mhz 2-2-2-5 at i think like 3.7v or something close to that.. but its original bh5 she will take anything you give it.

im done messing with this neo2 though,,, my PC4800 TCC5 dont run right and i think its bad too. but Sean at OCZ has yet to respond to me with OCZ's settings for a neo 2 and this ram but i cant even run 265 2.85v 2.5-4-4-10 without errors and without a doubt this ram should be pulling 2.5-3-3-10 280mhz minimum or around 275mhz before loosening it up more.

Im a little upset at OCZ ram right now but i wont let it go further until i get an Ultra-D board...

sideeffect
08-19-2005, 11:04 PM
I dont have redline Lestat i have crucial ballistix and 3.4 volts would kill it for sure . Maybe thats not such a bad thing though.

I was refering to your redline but looks like you replaced that now.

Lestat
08-20-2005, 12:05 AM
oh sorry hahahah sorry
im a bit screwy today my mind just isnt right.

but yeah the redline died so im back on this TCC5 PC4800.


Burn in only works for UTT and BH5 other ram it doesnt help.

I dont recommend people immediately go out and massively overclock their ram but burn in only really works for bh5 and utt.
tccd and tcc5 it definately doesnt work from the threads here and other forums and my own testing.

ElAguila
08-20-2005, 10:05 AM
I just got this board up and running and so far I have had much better luck than with the dfi nf3 ultra board. I had a couple of questions that I have been reading through to find so hopefully I didn't just overlook them. What is the mtrr mapping mode in the dram config? Also are there any modded bioses that will give you access to write to read delay and read to write delay? I am currently using 1.A4 murdok modbios. These settings are too aggressive. I am currently oc'd at 10x250 but I had to loosen up on some of the ram settings. After looking with A64 tweaker I can see these 2 timings are too tight for my oc.

Lestat
08-20-2005, 11:32 AM
yeah i agree i think they are too agressive also. which may link to why i have such bad overclocks...
i wish they would make those settings visible for us to use. Since you can change them inside th ebios hack tool then you can make them visible inside the bios itself for us to change.

i would really like to see a totally hacked bios that shows everything... there has got to be more stuff there.

have you tried the 1.36 Rev 4 or the 1.8 rev 3 ?

what cpu and ram do you have? that will help us help you.

ElAguila
08-20-2005, 01:21 PM
I just updated my sig. I have an x2 3800 so I have to stay with 1.9 and higher. I am using 2x1024 patriot pc3200 LL 2-3-2-5 ram. If I loosen the ram timings to 2.5-3-9-3 I can get better oc's. I was hoping there was a modbios that would open up all of the settings including bank interleave and one for the chipset voltage.

sideeffect
08-20-2005, 01:56 PM
No there is no chipset voltage linked. Only way to adjust it would be to Solder a resistor. Also i very much doupt it needs doing anyway with your setup. The ram will never go high enough to need the extra chipset voltage.

People run 300+ HTT fine with the current voltage.

ElAguila
08-20-2005, 02:09 PM
I have had the ram as high as 240htt but if I use a divider I shouldn't need it to go past 235. I had the chip up to 2.65ghz in another board but the board had a lot of issues so i dumped it. I would be happy with a bios that had access to the other memory settings. I did notice a setting that the current modbios made available and I have no idea what it does. Maybe someone here knows. It is called MTRR Mapping Mode.

sideeffect
08-20-2005, 02:28 PM
Im looking in the bios code now. Extra memory settings just are not in there. They will have to be added after in the lan rom or on windows boot.

I did find the 183 divider though and i enabled that still looking and seeing what else is turned off.

Think ill turn off the 216 233 and 250 settings as they dont work anyway.

Also found +13 and +18 percent cpu voltage settings. Now i dont quite get why they are in there because if msi wanted them gone why add them to a new bios. Going to enable them and see what happens.

edit - im talking about 1.A4 bios here
edit - maybe max async can be added can see the code for it im not sure if its in 1.A4 bios or not by default someone let me know.

desolator
08-20-2005, 02:41 PM
n00b OCer back again

so 2 days i had lots of tyme...went thru quite alot of this thread

finally today managed to boot at 250htt 1:1 2.5-3-3-8 tho i had to lower the multi to 9 tho it wudnt prime more then like 10 mins but thts cuz of the low volts which is cuz of crappy coolin n psu

and i also managed to get 2420 prime stable on default heatsink, nuthin to be proud of but atleast its a move in the right dir

for some reason 240 stil wnt boot even tho 250 wud, a bad figure maybe?

and btw im on 1.8 and in my bios ram divider options r quite limited, i have 100, 133 (i think not sure), 166, and 200
how do i enable othe options? or do i need a diff bios?

also from wht i can gather sideeffect, my ram is 505

Lastly hnx to lestat and sideeffect for all the info...will post screenies if i hit anything to be proud off tho i have take 250 htt screenie, and am savin up for psu n cooling, a hyper 6 maybe so hopefully ill get 2.6 prime stable, thnx `1nce again

ali

ElAguila
08-20-2005, 04:51 PM
Thanks for taking a look at it.

Lestat
08-20-2005, 05:51 PM
aguila -

that ram thats 2-3-2 is only good for 2-3-2 up to about 210mhz(correct me if im wrong but thats only tccd ram) plus your using 2 1 gig sticks which is harder to overclock on this board or any board really. it takes more power to run a gig stick.
so anything above 230mhz you will have to run 2.5-3-3-10. and since its one gigi sticks your probably gunna have to run 3-4-4-10. just play around. But you also have ram and cpu voltages to think about also.

you also have a 3800 X2 now no one said they are good overclockers. as you read around you'll probably start seeing that many of the X2's arent very good oc'ers. but that could be cuz of the bios or the mobo.

I've said it before and i'll say it again. The NEO2 is old,, too old to be running an X2 on, i dont care what MSI thinks or does with this board or bios isnt designed for a dual core processor.
Go get yourself a DFI or ASUS pci-e board.

now i would say yank 1 stick of ram out and see how far you can get. dont forget 2.5-3-3-10 or looser.


sideeffect if your comfortable with what you've done to that bios let me have it. i'd like to see what she does with this venice.

ElAguila
08-20-2005, 06:03 PM
I am sitting at 10x260 right now with a 166 divider at 2.5-3-3-9 at 1T. My experience with this cpu so far has been pretty good. I use my system primarily for video/audio encoding/conversion so the x2 and extra gig of ram made a heck of a difference. As far as the board, I had a dfi and I will not own another dfi nf3 ultra board. It has some major problems. I ended up sending it back for this neo2. I will stick with the neo2 until I get ready to get rid of my 6800gt agp card and go pci. Then I will go with dfi again for their nf4 lan party board. I had one of the dfi lp nf3 250 boards and it was great but as I said the nf3 ultra by dfi was a big snafu.

sideeffect
08-20-2005, 06:06 PM
Well so far

enabled 183 divider (dunno what it will do)
enabled +13 +15 +18 (same dunno if it works)

enabled Acpi function in power management
enabled power manage
enabled video off
enabled hdd power down
enabled WOR wake up event
enabled cpu internal external cache on or off
enabled Hdd block mode
enabled all available memory settings

disabled temps in bios
disabled full screen logo
disabled-12 volt
disabled ATI/nvidia speedup
disabled 213 233 and 250 dividers
disabled small logo

Basically all those things i enabled are to keep things from being hidden you still get to choose what to select. The things i disabled wont show for various reason either they dont work or are annoying.

Im not done with this bios yet im going to hax in some better timings for the memory in all the dividers. I also have the acpi tables all the roms etc.

Lestat
08-20-2005, 07:10 PM
sideeffect when you get a sec. list what memory options MSI was so kind to hide from us ;) id be interested to see whats really hidden inside that bios.

Lestat
08-20-2005, 07:13 PM
Aquila -

yeah i had the UT 250GB ith my clawhammer system and it honestly was the 2nd bet mobo i ever owned. the 1st was an MSI 865PE NEO2 FIS2R. that motherboard was just impressive to say the least.


but yes what your doing that 2 gigs of ram is necessary i simply wanted to get you to play around with things.
drop 1 stick and see what it does 1:1 then run 166 and see.
frankly right now i'd drop the ram down to 133 and see how much further you can take it.

I dont know im just not ready to fork over more for a cpu that the only thing that uses both those cores is Windows itself and video editing, cuz games really dont use it yet, although i imagine if the game is coded for Intel HT then it should work better with the X2 but i cant confirm that.

well play around let us know.. Also what are your temps at ? your on air ?

ElAguila
08-20-2005, 08:25 PM
I am on air. Right now the idle is 39c and load with both cores priming is 47c. I am going to save up and fork out the dough for one of the new zalman 9500's when they are available. I do some messing around with the memory tomorrow and let you know what I find out. One of the memory settings that it sets too aggressive is the write to read delay time. It sets this to 1. When I change it to 2 I can push my ram a little further.

sideeffect
08-20-2005, 08:47 PM
Well by default msi hides all the settings for memory more or less but the mod bios files already have them showing or u can unhide them yourself like with ati speed. The only new memory timing that i found that isnt in the bios is max async latency and read preamble. It has all the options but its not linked to the bios yet.

Going to try and add that in. The other timings have to be added like nfm did.

Lestat do you have a bios saviour/ Spare chip?

Edit the 150 divider may also be available. wtf is this hmm seems there is a setting under cas 2 that can be enabled also but i doupt cas 1.5 works on nforce3 so why did msi add the setting. Well who knows.

ElAguila
08-20-2005, 09:13 PM
I guess I should read up some on bios editing myself and see what I can do.

Lestat
08-20-2005, 09:15 PM
if you set CAS 1.5 with A64 tweeker CPU-Z shows a blank entry i did that with the Mushkin and then did Sandra and there was no speed difference so i doubt its enabled.

Now, programming wise, mose the sweet settings are all set as reserved. So setting then as not reserved would, or should be possible by removing the reserved "flag". but i would also assume that they are linked alse where to so that you may have to enable those settings in more than 1 place in order for then to fully be available.

Sideeffect - so your saying that all the memory settings that we have seen so far is all that MSI incudes ? wow thats pretty crappy. i was really hoping that we would see all the DFI settings in the MSI bios but just hidden.

Again speaking from a limited programming point of view, would it be possible to take the DFI bios and set it side by side with the MSI and simply add in the values from the DFI into the MSI ?

All in all in the end im pretty sure it would take someone with the money to call Award and have them create a custom bios for this board. Which its my understanding i THINK they can infact do. but MSI may have a binding contract that they can not do that for anyone but MSI.

I personally think its time we add in some extra stuff and get rid of others.

All the comport and LPT port and IR port stuff,, get rid of it,, delete it.
ATI/NV speed up. Remove it
Auto overclocking, all items related to AUTO overclocking remove it.
i mean frankly look at all the stuff if you dont use it get rid of it. totally delete it out. or hide it.

I want Memtest put in there,, lol.

now this is a total longshot.... BUT... what about integrating some sort of bios level A64tweaker. ?
If A64tweaker can control all of those settings then frankly all of those settings can be manually added into the bios. A64 tweaker doesnt talk to a driver or the regestry or anything it shoots a bullet right into the core, the memory controller itself and possible sections of the bios itself. It's more or less nothing more than adding those address ranges and hex values into the bios. Which brings me back to comparing a DFI award bios and an MSI award bios and stripping the DFI and adding them to the MSI.

just all food for thought andi wish i had the knowledge and programming skills to do it.

Side effect no i dont have a spare flash chip. i frankly am almost done with this board and moving on to a DFI Ultra-D NF4 but while i have it ill try not to fry it lol.
I simply meant when your comfortable that your hacked bios is usable and wont instantly cause a bad flash throw it to me ill test it out.

sideeffect
08-20-2005, 10:00 PM
I tried to add lines of code to the bios and it just messes it all up. So i cant add the DFI timings for example. But some things are already in here that just arent linked up which i think i can do something about them.

Yes i was also thinking along your lines of a slimed down version of the bios with all the junk removed like auto overclocking junk ati speedup junk and power savings.

Id also like to reorganise it a bit to make it more user friendly and have default settings that dont plain suck :p:.

The settings from athlon 64 can be kind of added but not the variables. Like i can add a setting not a choice of settings. Adding memtest is possible ill ask around about it i dont know how to do it personally.

As soon as i have a good bios ill test it out and if my pc doesnt implode/explode and things work ok ill release it.

The cas 1.5 setting in athlon 64 tweaker has a star next to it because its deactivated so wont work. But if i activate the setting it might work. But do what? Who knows gonna activate it anyway cause im curious.

I can also activate the tras settings lower than 5 also. I think ive read somewhere that the cas 1.5 is a chipset limitation so i really dont think it will work. Same with trcd 1 and trp 1

Lestat
08-20-2005, 11:03 PM
yeah as far as i know the NF4 are the only ones that can do 1.5

hhmm odd that it cant have added entries.... only changed values of exsisting entries.
I would say kick out everything that you dont use and unhide everything that should be.
the whole memtest thing i think is only available for 4meg romchips.not sure if ours is but i dont think it is , is it ? im probably wrong on that whole thing but i think there actually has to be room in the rom to add a huge chunck like memtest.
then there is actually getting it to work it didnt even work 90% of the time on the DFI board.

sideeffect
08-20-2005, 11:17 PM
Yes it is 4mb. Yes adding text to the bios throws it all out of alignment. So i enabled 150 and 183 divider only 183 shows in text 150 is blank but selectable. When i added the 150mhz text it messed everything up

Ill keep trying to see if theres anything that can be done. Im getting some more tools also to help me do things.

I enabled 1.5 cas but its still unselectable so i guess its not really there after all. Still trying to get Async and read preamble to show dont know why it isnt and the other memory timings are showing.

syar2003
08-21-2005, 07:54 AM
Version 1A has gone final

1A has gone final Aug.16 and is availible on MSI USA .
MSI though has again forgotten to enable USB 1.1+2.0 as selectable
and the enhanced memory timings and the usual stuff is hidden .

Modded versions that gives you full control is availible
Follow this thread
http://forum.msi.com.tw/index.php?topic=59711.0

Lestat
08-21-2005, 08:13 AM
syar did they notify Murdock so he can tell the msi coders ? and have them pull it from the website and fix the stupid bios ?

They told Murdock to create bug reports and submit them but are they listening ?
sounds more like a "we will let them think they are helping but in reality we dont care what problems they have"


2. This BIOS fixes the following problem of the previous version:
- Update CPU ID for AMD E6 CPU.

wow thanks MSI for listening to us and ACTUALLY FIXING THIS GOD DAMN PIECE OF SH|TE FVCKING BIOS/MOBO YOU GIVE US!!!

How bout fixing the tmep bug
how bout fixing Cold boot issues when OC'd
how bout fixing voltages
how bout fixing -12v readout
how bout fixing the thing so its actually a respectable bios.
every bios you release you do nothing but lose customers to other motherboard makers.


Sideeffect -

just a thought, if your adding text instead of changing whats already there is it messing with the CRC/Signature of the rom ? almost sounds like it is. do you bios tools resign the bios ?

frankly everytime i flash with one of the modded bios's i get a Bios CRC error, Defaults Loaded error when i reboot. this hasnt seemed to cause any issues, but if its programmed to see a certain CRC value and its not seeing it.... well....

syar2003
08-21-2005, 08:41 AM
What kind of agreement murdok have i'm not sure about.
If it's codename 1A0 it's final , nothing can change that.
Further work must be done with a new 1Bx version.

-I'm not aware of any temp bug , unless you are adressing negative temps .
-Fixing the -12v readout ?
Why , it's not used to anything and thats the reason it's hidden .

As for the crc error it's because your flash method keeps the old cmos checksum
Flash properly with shutdown and sby-power removed .

Other than that I agree that their BIOSes needs more work .

Lestat
08-21-2005, 09:46 AM
Flash properly with shutdown and sby-power removed .

i have no idea what your talking about


-Fixing the -12v readout ?

the -12v WAS reading at -7v


-I'm not aware of any temp bug , unless you are adressing negative temps

the temp bug was bad temp readings. like 5-8 deg too high. but i see now its fixed.


Murdock reports to MSI bios issues. I never said he has an agreement but he talks to them and he has said many times that MSI wants us to be more specific about errors that he reports. Maybe HE is saying that but i might be german but i dont speak german so babelfish may be translating it wrong.

Overall fellas i now think i am chaning my recommended bios.

This bios STILL does not allow me to use my Promise TX2 IDE card if i have power plugged into the hard drive thats hooked to the IDE card the system will not boot to any hd or cdrom or floppy. I need this drive but i dont like using onboard ide as its slower and uses more resources and CPU cycles.

Anyways, i am now at 285mhz 2.5-4-4-10 1T with the OCZ PC4800 Plat. no other bios lets me go this high. I was stuck at 2.5-4-3-10 @ 270mhz before so this is a nice increase, but just like the other guy said im pretty sure its cuz NFM and murdock forced memory settings on us that were to tight. but i cant verify that so its only a guess.

It also totally rearranged my IRQ's which i am NOT happy about. My 6800 Ultra now shares the same IRQ as the SMBus which for those of you who dont know what that is, thats the PCI bus controller which having a 6800 Ultra and the SMBus on the same IRQ, well lets say thats a bad thing. But ill have to run some benches to find out.

so.. inshort, if this bios stays this good then i am definately liking it. But i wont use it for very long because i cant use my IDE controller card... if they can get that fixed then i would start recommending this bios.

syar2003
08-21-2005, 10:08 AM
Bios modders open the -12v to be visible .
To open it is useless as the -12v isn't used in modern systems to anything.
-5v and -12v is only provided on PSUs for backwards compablity to atx boards.
And i'm aware that it shows -7v , but i don't believe this is an issue
worth adressing over the other important ones.

To have a clean cmos after flash turn the system off + remove power
to the PSU instead of letting it restart .
This followed by a bootup to bios and load optimized defaults and
letting it boot again to build dmi pool is proved to be the best method.

I also have a pci sata SIL addon card to be able to use four disks without using sata1/2 .
For me it's impossible to boot from any drives connected to it with nvraid enabled .
If i disable nvraid the disks will show in hd boot order , if not
only nvraid is listed .


I've not tried any high overclocks with it yet .

Lestat
08-21-2005, 11:46 AM
well mines an IDE card not SATA. but yes the issue seems to be that the add-on card might be interfering with the onboard ide or for you SATA.

i do not use the nvraid only sata. its always disabled.

ill disable the SATA in the bios and only use my promise TX2 card and see if it boots.

ill report back.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 06:03 PM
You gotta love those changelogs that msi provides. Apparantly the only thing they did was

- Update CPU ID for AMD E6 CPU

Now this took them about 6 weeks and 4 betas to accomplish :rolleyes:

Lestat
08-21-2005, 06:19 PM
no fair i already said that lol.
yeah real nice to know what was supposedly fixed cuz i dont think they've ever really fixed anything have they ? they've only made other things broken or they remove an import feature like PRESS INSERT TO GO INTO SAFE MODE WHEN YOUR OVERCLOCK FAILS!!! AARRGG I HATE YOU MSI FOR REMOVING THAT YOU BLOOMING IDIOTS!!!!!!

1/2 CPU Multipliers,, again my hatred runs deep towards you MSI


hows your testing going SE ?

i also disabled the primary IDE and the SATA 1 2 3 4 and it still wont let me use my Promise U133 TX2 IDE card,, that pisses me off ya know....

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 06:47 PM
Havnt tested it yet. Im going to mod it first then test it. Im a little scared to though i havnt had very good luck with any bios since 1.8. But seeing as how it improved your overclock i can only guess that the updated cpuid helps newer cpus.

The memory timings wernt that tight in nfm modded bios so i dont think that explains your performance increase.

If you can get stable at 285 are you still going to go to DFI Lestat because imo thats not a bad overclock.

ElAguila
08-21-2005, 06:59 PM
I was told that the half multi's didn't work with a64's. SideEffect let me know when you get your mod bios ready for testing. That 150 divider would be great for my system.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 07:23 PM
The .5 multis work just fine with athlon 64 all the bios versions before 1.9. They removed them from the 1.9 and over bios's.

The values are completely gone so cant be enabled.

ElAguila
08-21-2005, 07:24 PM
I was told in another forum the .5 multis actually used the next highest whole number for all of the settings.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 08:11 PM
Yes i think it did. But that made a big difference because it made options unavailable available.

Some combinations of cpu ram speed cant be got with the 166 133 divider unless you use .5 multis so the motherboard must be setting 150 or 183 divider to keep the spec.

As 183/150 dividers aren't available to be set the .5 dividers are a kinda hack to allow it. I guess msi thought that they would just enable the 183/150 divider and do away with the .5 multis. But they did away with the multis but didnt add the dividers. I hope that i can enable the divider again.

For example 310 x 10.5 = 3150 mhz cpu speed with a 166 divider ram = 242.3
286 x 11 = 3146 mhz cpu speed with a 183 divider ram = 242

So if the multi is raising from 10.5 to 11 then the neo2 must be using the 183 divider to keep the ram in spec.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 09:26 PM
Ok im running my modded bios now. The extra voltage settings dont work. Shame that.

However the 183 divider hack does work and im now running in a 183 divider set with bios :p:

Going to test 150 divider now.

Going to make a few changes then ill post bios.

Lestat
08-21-2005, 09:27 PM
yes all the 1/2 multiplier does is use the 183 divider.

thats what all the amd64 boards do. all 1.2 cpu multipliers use a 183 divider.

technically its not even a 183 divider its more than that i believe.

but anyways they are absolute fools for removing the 1/2 multiplier.. it is and dont say im synical its fvcking retarded same as its retarded to remove the "press insert for safe mode" that is a fvcking life savor and they took it away cuz they are bloody retards.

And now they have made it so you cant even use a PCI SATA or IDE card,,, what kind of b.s. is that i mean really.
the NVRaid is crap, its slow and poop compared the the Sil, Promise, Highpoint and other SATA controllers.


BUT i wll say this..... whatever they did i can get better ram freq. but like i said earlier i think it was never MSI i think it was NFM and Murdock locking those 2 and 3 ram settings so we couldnt change them in the bios. it was too tight.. expecially for TCCD ram.

but so far so good.

Lastly im not happy with the NVraid rom thats in this bios. its definately has some speed and cache issues compared to the others. The hard drive isnt pulling up apps and windows as fast as before. not sure what it is as ive never seen an nvraid rom but something is definately not right with my Raptor performance now.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 09:36 PM
OK 150 and 183 dividers now work in my modded bios. Going to make a few changes then ill post bios.

Lestat if you want another nvraid rom in a custom bios that can be done easily. However it might just be a problem with the latancy. Use powerstrip to set latency and use hdtach or atto diskbench to record differences.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 10:03 PM
Murdock never released a bios with modified memory timings and NFM did his mods with a ISA hack and the timings were looser than msi's in all the dividers.

The pre 1.9 bios files didnt have any memory timings for the modders to change so it was all msi's fault that they were to tight.

However the 1.9 / 1.A timings are a touch looser than the 1.8. However i think your performance gain is due to the improved venice support in the newer bios.

Lestat
08-21-2005, 10:34 PM
the gain is 100% memory i didnt gain anything on my cpu.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 10:38 PM
No Lestat the memory controller is on the cpu so any improvements to the cpuid will effect support for the venice hence support of the memory controller hence better ram speed.

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 10:39 PM
My bios is ready to be used by anyone who may wish to use it. Its been tested by me and works fine but as always the risk is yours to take.

In my knowledge this is the first neo 2 bios to allow 183 and 150 dividers to be set in the bios.

Hope you enjoy it get it from here Download (http://www.swjka.com/neo2/view_thread.php?fid=39&tid=40)

ElAguila
08-21-2005, 11:30 PM
I just downloaded it. I will give a try tomorrow. Great work getting the 2 new dividers added in. On another note, what exactly does the ati/nvidia speedup do that fastwrites doesn't do?

sideeffect
08-21-2005, 11:35 PM
ATI/Nvidia speed up overclocks the video card by about 5 percent over stock values. The problem is if you have already found your maximum gpu overclock which most people have then this setting will push the card over the edge and you will get graphics errors.

Fast writes is a setting which allows faster access to the graphics card ram. However in the real world the performance effect is 0 and you can lose stability its widely accepted to disable fast writes on all graphics cards.

I set the default to off for fast writes but you can turn it back on in bios.

peterle
08-22-2005, 02:44 AM
Does the memdivider 150+183 really work??? Murdock tried it also but they did not work, u just could select it at the bios but 150 gone 166 and 183 gone 200 ??

desolator
08-22-2005, 06:19 AM
Great Work Side effect...

any other specefic features u made for this bios?

and which original bios did u modify?

Sonic9
08-22-2005, 06:27 AM
Great ! I can re-test my overclock ... it's possible to tune SideEffect's bios (I think NFM can :) no ? ) these values :) :

Read Write Queue Bypass to 16x
Bypass Max to 7x
Idle Cycle Counter to 256clks

and why not Read Preamble to 5.5ns ... or leave default, what you think ?

Lestat
08-22-2005, 08:22 AM
ok check this

10x cpu
183 = 188

9x cpu
183 = 185

thats kind of a rough estimate as im still trying to figure out what its doing.

10x cpu 275HTT = 250mhz ram
9x cpu 275 HTT = 248mhz ram
8x cou 275 HTT = 245mhz ram

the cpu multiplier is changing the memory frequency. which MAY be why they never enabled it. They cant get it to hold the freq like 200 166 and 133

so far i dont see anything different with this bios and the original. other than the obvious removal of a few items. (thanks btw for that!!)

SE i thought you had enabled some more memory settings ? or did you say you tried but it wouldnt work.?

and as for my comment about overclocking. I know the memcontroller is ondie i simply meant that this bios is giving me more memory overclock. i havent gained or lost any overclock on the cpu. Other than now im stuck back at 1.65v being the max vcore.

Lestat
08-22-2005, 09:25 AM
hhmm ive lost about ohh 300+ on sandra running the same settings as murdocks.

SE is there some setting that you have in the memory that is pretty loose ?

i was running 2.5-4-4-10 @ 275mhz and getting 71XX in sandra
now im getting 6800~6900 give or take.

take a look at my A64 tweaker and tell me what i can do to either keep the same HTT and get more performance orrrr.... get a higher HTT/Mem without running 2T... i just wont run 2T lol.

i can adjust the 2.5 to 3 and the other 3 values ( 4-4-10 ) and not really get alot more, i didnt know if there was something in the bios right now that i can adjust or something with A64 tweaker that i can adjust. to get it higher than 275 2.5-4-4-10

I just havent had a need to know about those other values before thats why i never really learned what adjusting them does or i'd do it myself lol.

syar2003
08-22-2005, 09:55 AM
Nice work :) Sideeffect , been missing the 183 for a long time !

Lestat !
Multiplier 8 gives the following 183 divider : 9
Multiplier 9 gives the following 183 divider : 10
Multiplier 10 gives the following 183 divider : 11

Actual ramspeed is cpufreq/divider
8*275 =2200mhz , ram freq= 2200/9 ~ 244.44mhz
9*275 =2475mhz , ram freq= 2475/10 ~ 247.5mhz
10*275 =2750mhz , ram freq= 2750/11 ~ 250mhz
So it looks like it's okay

Divider tables here :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41595

Lestat
08-22-2005, 10:54 AM
hhmm i dont recall my DFI dropping the ram Freq when you dropped the cpu multiplier but then again i probably didnt pay THAT much attention to 3mhz.

i simply commented on that as a curiosity not an issue. but its good to know thats the way its suppose to be.

i need to do more testing BUT....

i lost 1000 points in 3dmark 05
i lost 2000 points in 3dmark 03
i didnt lose anything in Aquamark really maybe 1500 from a high 75k to a low 74k. but thats minimal.
I did install the new nvidia 78.11 drivers which has an insane Image Quality setting and color saturation even when the Nvisia control panel is set the total performance.
Also Triple buffering does not work on the drivers so that maybe causing abig hit.

last i did try 512 meg 256meg and 128meg AGP aperture and it didnt change.
512meg aperture used to increase 3dmark 05 scores but it didnt help.

again it may just be the drivers but i benched yesterday and i was getting my usually crappy score of 57xx with 3dmark 05.
I say crappy cuz with my old 754 3200 clawhammer and a 6800 GT i used to get over 6100 in 3dmark '05.
but anyways.

no issues so far other than wanting to squeeze some more hz out of my ram..

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 11:05 AM
Yes ill work on memory timings next.

Yes the 183 150 dividers really do work. They dont show the correct changes in the bios. Load windows with the 183 divider set and load athlon 64 tweaker and you will see it has set the 183 divider. It has no problem holding the frequancy and is exactly the memory frequancy you would expect from the 183 divider if you dont believe me use This tool (http://www.swjka.com/k8nneo2bios//A64MemFreq.exe) it will show you what frequancy you will get in a certain motherboard with a certain memory clock set. Tick DFI to allow it to show the 183 and 150 dividers. The speeds it sets corolate perfectly with what the bios sets.

Lestat the memory timings are all available to be changed in bios theres no reason why another 1.A would be faster with the same timings.

Losing 1000 marks in 2005 is loads are you talking about 1.8 vs 1.A or are you talking about my bios vs murdoks.

Or is it because your IRQ is sharing the graphics card with the smbus like you were saying before.

Im going to benchmark now and test this.

Edit - I get about the same results with 3dmark 2003 as i did with the 1.8 bios. If you get lower i think its due to the IRQ. My graphics card is still on its own IRQ in 1.A bios.

ElAguila
08-22-2005, 11:44 AM
I won't get to do anything until this afternoon but I will flash it then and see how the dividers are doing for me. Thanks for the work on this!

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 12:26 PM
The 150 divider boots with quite tight timings like the 166 im going to try my best to fix that today and release a rev 2 bios.

the 183 divider boots with lovely timings the same as 200.

Ok im going to try to force

write to Read delay (Twtr) = 2
Read/Write Qued Bypass = 16
Bypass Max = 7
Maximum Async Latency = 8
idle cycle limit = 256

In all dividers. Does that sound ok to everyone?

syar2003
08-22-2005, 02:37 PM
Whats with everyone and this 256 idle cycle limit myth .

There are trade-offs if the counter is set too high since it may interfere with DRAM refresh. Empirically, we have found that a value between 16 and 64 cycles will give the highest performance in e.g. gaming applications .
(lostcircuits)

I would like to have it left on 16clks .

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 02:47 PM
Ill leave that at default then. From what i heard it helps stability in tccd ram at higher clocks. In my experiance it makes no difference in stability on my Crucial ballistix.

The main settings that i really want to change are max async because 7ns can be to tight if you want to run high mhz ram speeds. And Write to read delay (Twtr) because it defaults to 1 in 166 150 divider and that can limit the overclock. The other settings i have seen no benifit or deficit in changing.

Edit - ok i have hacked the new memory timings in going to test bios then release rev2

2virgule5
08-22-2005, 03:57 PM
Just had a try of last sideffect modded bios : 150 option is not listed (only 100, 133, 166, 183 and 200), but 183 option did work well, I'm now running my X2-4200+ at 240 x 11, RAM is at 203.1 Mhz. I'll try higher HTT @ x10 later. CPU voltage (as read in bios and with CPU-Z) dropped by 0.05 to 0.1 v when I select 1.55 vcore +10% (it is at 1.55, was about 1.6 to 1.63 with 1.A3 with the same settings).

Another good news : it also seems that the cold bug disappeared, as I now can cold boot without problem at those settings (I had to reset CMOS at those with crappy 1.9 and 1.Ax).

Thanks for the work !

Lestat
08-22-2005, 04:09 PM
SE my benchmark issue wasnt addressed at memory timings it was address at something MSI MAY HAVE changed with the AGP. again its a guess cuz ill swear i benched yesterday with the new graphics driver and i got around my usual 5700 in 05 and today i get 4700 and the only thing i changed was the bios.

now another thing that ahppened video wise is 3dmark is showing alot of skipping. or studdering. where as before it never did it.

I got no problem uninstalling the driver and going back to the one i had prior to this to test. Im just busy with my new toy right now :) :) :)

http://gateway.com/products/GConfig/proddetails.asp?system_id=m680xl&seg=hm

Ares323
08-22-2005, 04:31 PM
Hello again,

I just flashed to 1A oficial bios, all good at default settings but :mad: my system is stable with 1.8 oficial at 2.7 Ghz @ 10x270, Ram 2.5-3-3-7 and it goes to 2.8 Ghz CPu:RAM 1:1 perfectly stable @1.5 volts and max frequency is 2.95 Ghz @1.7 volts. With this 1A bios I cant get to post if I overclock to 10X270, not even at 10x250, lower I didn`t tried.
Funny thing is that if I boot at 12x200, 3x and 2.5-3-3-7, I can raise with clockgen to 2.9 Ghz @ 1,65 volts so I tried to relax my MEM timmings to 3-4-4-8 and boot at 270x10, 3x but that was a no go :( , my system cant get over post, my monitor led goes red and it stays that way until I reset CMOS.

My components are : Venice 3800+. Adata DDR600, Asetek Waterchill Antarctica, OCZ PowerStream 520 in a Stacker case.

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 04:54 PM
Just had a try of last sideffect modded bios : 150 option is not listed (only 100, 133, 166, 183 and 200), but 183 option did work well, I'm now running my X2-4200+ at 240 x 11, RAM is at 203.1 Mhz. I'll try higher HTT @ x10 later. CPU voltage (as read in bios and with CPU-Z) dropped by 0.05 to 0.1 v when I select 1.55 vcore +10% (it is at 1.55, was about 1.6 to 1.63 with 1.A3 with the same settings).

Another good news : it also seems that the cold bug disappeared, as I now can cold boot without problem at those settings (I had to reset CMOS at those with crappy 1.9 and 1.Ax).

Thanks for the work !

Yep because i have vapochill too i fixed the cold bug issue for myself and others. The other modded bios files even though they remove the settings for showing temp in the modbin they dont actually disable the bios from getting the temps. I disabled the bios from even trying to get them so its solved that issue nicely.

The 150 divider doesnt show because i cant add text in there. But it is selectable still. Just click enter in the memory divider screen and you will see a blank option in between the 133 and 166 dividers. Select that and the 150 divider works.

I have made a revision 2 of my bios. Im very sorry but i couldnt change Write to read delay default in this revision. The hacked code doesnt work for this setting. NFM also had this issue I will contact the maker of the code and see if the variable is wrong.

I did however force
- Max Async = 8
- Read Write Queue bypass = 16
- Bypass max = 7
in all dividers. I've left revision 1 on site to for those that dont want these memory tweaks.

Edit - removed rev 2 for the time being because i have actually forced a write to read time but its set the variable to 1 instead of 2. Will fix this issue and repost bios.

Sonic9
08-22-2005, 05:22 PM
Great work SideEffect ! I don't know why MSI has professionnals developpers, nowadays the final client must program his motherboard's bios :(

@LeStat: Studdering ? hmmm, What nvidia's drivers use ? (video & gart too, plz), have you tested FEAR's demo ? It's the only game where the lags appears fastest for me ...

For Idle Cycles, I follow guides to o/c my ram on a friend's dfi's board and I havn't all tested (not enough time), but I know my sticks run @ 290mhz DC/Sync/2.5/4/3/8 - 16x/7x/8ns/256clks/5/5ns (not tested rock stable but windows boot, mini occt/streeprime okay ...)

Goodbye. I flash my motherboard again :)

edit: I wait you SE ;)

Ares323
08-22-2005, 05:43 PM
I flashed 1A rev 2 and my system died :), won`t boot at default . I went back to 1.8 official. To bad that I can`t get an official Venice bios to work with this crappy board, this board days are numbered for sure, I have enough of it.

Sonic9
08-22-2005, 06:01 PM
I have tested rev1 (waiting rev2 fixed timings) ... 183 divider works okay ... I will happy for that too :) :) :) :
- Cleaned interface (some settings hidden due to unnecassery ...)
- Logos disabled & Fullscreen too
- Disabled LAN & FireWire ...
- SMART Enabled
- HTT 3x

You can Disabled Port COM no ? Parrallel no ? What you opinion about that ? (I'm order my customized bios lol)

Now just wait for really Quick Boot (no long ram tester ...)

Argh, it's 01h00 AM here ... and my hollydays are at the end ... grrr ...

Goodbye & Good night.

Xyus89
08-22-2005, 06:09 PM
Hiya,

Whenever I try 250 divider is doesn't work at all.. anything above 200 doesn't work.
in cpu-z it says it's says that my ram is running at 150mhz when I use 250 divider :s

another thing, the temp sensors on the board.
yesterday it reported 41 stressed with toast and 28 idle
today it reports 34stressd and 28 idle.
I've been Priming/burning in my cpu allot so has it taken effect or is there something wrong with the temp sensors?

and whenever I hit 300 HTT in windows it instantly freezes/reboots :( I think HT frequency (instead of 3x , 2x)

xyus

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 06:22 PM
Ok rev 2 is fixed and up and up for download. It modifies a few memory timings from default settings to allow higher boot speeds.

Ares323 the version you got of revision 2 had a write to read time that didnt set properly and forced it to be tighter. The bios booted fine on my pc so i didnt notice it at first. It could have caused your no boot. Sorry if it did.

The new rev2 is fully tested. Download rev1 if you dont want modified ram timings.

dividers above 200 dont work, they havent worked in any bios they have been in thats why i removed them from my bios.

Yes i can disable anything from showing in bios. Yes i also set firewire and lan off by default sry if that bothers you it can be enabled easy enough. Was kind of modding my ideal bios why i was doing this so your lucky sata isnt disabled by default :p:

Ill disable parallel port by default in m next revision but i use the serial port for my vapochill so that stays. Ill add lan back to auto in next revision to because it makes sence to have that on most people use a lan socket. Wasnt really thinking there.

msimax
08-22-2005, 06:25 PM
hey sideeffect does ur bios support dual core chips as i just brought a x2 3800 and some gskill bh5

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 06:30 PM
Its based on 1.A official so yes it should support dual core cpus no problem or lots of problems depending on how well msi added the support :p:

Ares323
08-22-2005, 06:41 PM
Ok rev 2 is fixed and up and up for download. It modifies a few memory timings from default settings to allow higher boot speeds.

Ares323 the version you got of revision 2 had a write to read time that didnt set properly and forced it to be tighter. The bios booted fine on my pc so i didnt notice it at first. It could have caused your no boot. Sorry if it did.

The new rev2 is fully tested. Download rev1 if you dont want modified ram timings.

.

I am mad like hell, I just cant understand why with 1.8 official I can overclock and starting with 1.9 official and all the beta`s and modded bioses, also with 1A official I can`t overclock my system , I have reinstaled my OS, I gave up the Raid 0 and went to a straight setup on Sata Drive, nothing has changed.

msimax
08-22-2005, 06:45 PM
also i was playing around with my ga-k8ns when i went to reboot it let up like a roman candle i stood there in amazement all i had was my booster hooked up bu i want to know what does this area control. this was a refurb only 56 bucks but i was having a good time. got my bh5 to 275 all stable :) so i want to playwith it again




http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8340/imga00305od.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

msimax
08-22-2005, 06:47 PM
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/4316/imga00283fs.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 06:48 PM
Ares323 Post all your hardware specifications in here and maybe someone can help you.


msimax you do realise this isnt the Gigabyte forum dont you? :p:

ElAguila
08-22-2005, 06:52 PM
It does support dual core. I am running one. I just flashed and I am testing the 150 divider and it is purring like a kitten. The bios looks less cluttered now. You did a great job with it. If you decide to make any other changes I have a non-priority request. It would be nice if the sata1 and 2 were disabled by default as you have to use 3 and 4 when oc'ing. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this.

Ares323
08-22-2005, 06:56 PM
MSI Neo2 Platinum 54g
Venice 3800+
1 Gb Adata DDR600
Sapphire X800Xt PE
2X Maxtor 120 GB Sata on Sata 3&4
WD 400JB on IDE 1
Pioneer 108D
Yamaha CRW f1E
SBlive
3COM ethernet card
Asetek Waterchill Antarctica CPU and VGA.
PSU OCZ PowerStream 520
CoolerMaster Stacker case.

I guess that`s all.

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 07:10 PM
MSI Neo2 Platinum 54g
Venice 3800+
1 Gb Adata DDR600
Sapphire X800Xt PE
2X Maxtor 120 GB Sata on Sata 3&4
WD 400JB on IDE 1
Pioneer 108D
Yamaha CRW f1E
SBlive
3COM ethernet card
Asetek Waterchill Antarctica CPU and VGA.
PSU OCZ PowerStream 520
CoolerMaster Stacker case.

I guess that`s all.


Ok i have a suggestion from reading the german forum and seeing peoples issues with the newer bios files. I havnt personally experianced this problem but ive heard it can happen and it may be affecting you.

Flash to the 1.A official bios but dont restart pc turn it off. Then pull out the psu cable. Move the pin to clear the cmos pull out all the IDE cables and power cables to the drives. Put the pin back in place for the cmos plug power cable back in and start pc.

It should boot the bios then. Turn off the things you dont use but leave cpu ram settings at default for the moment. save changes then turn pc off again reconect the ide cables and power plugs to the drives and start pc again.

Hopefully it will boot again. Then try and overclock.

If that doesnt work i suggest trial and error with your pci cards remove the network card and the soundcard and see what happens. Maybe you will have to use different slots. The irq for all the slots has changed in the newer bios.

If you can get to windows look in system information to see if any of the irqs are sharing a slot with another device. Sharing irqs can make some devices not work properly.

ElAguila
08-22-2005, 07:17 PM
I don't know if this is possible or not but if you have a chance sideeffect could you look and see if Refresh Rate(Tref) is a setting that can be unhidden? I can set it manually usign A64 Tweaker but it would be nice if it could be set in the bios.

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 07:27 PM
I don't know if this is possible or not but if you have a chance sideeffect could you look and see if Refresh Rate(Tref) is a setting that can be unhidden? I can set it manually usign A64 Tweaker but it would be nice if it could be set in the bios.

It cant be unhiden im afraid not yet. Hopefully MSI will add it in the next bios.

The settings that dont show in the memory options in the bios arent actually hidden they arent even in the bios code. I cant add code in there so it just uses defaults.

The exception to this is max async and read preamble they are in the bios code with all the variables and im working on a way to add them into the bios menu.

I can force Tref values the same way i forced async and bypass max. The problem is different values work better for different people in different dividers. I think its best to leave it alone for now on the bios level.

ElAguila
08-22-2005, 07:34 PM
Thanks for looking. I noticed that when I use the 150 divider and then start a64 tweaker it shows the tref as 133 3.9us. I set it back to 200 3.9us. I tried using the a64 tweaker to set the setting at startup but when I do that it sets it to 100 3.9us

msimax
08-22-2005, 07:41 PM
i just wanted to know if anyone knew what part of the board it affected or what could have caused it

sideeffect
08-22-2005, 09:04 PM
Thanks for looking. I noticed that when I use the 150 divider and then start a64 tweaker it shows the tref as 133 3.9us. I set it back to 200 3.9us. I tried using the a64 tweaker to set the setting at startup but when I do that it sets it to 100 3.9us

133 should be looser than 200 and maybe more stable. Its actually not 3.9 us its 7.8 us athlon 64 tweaker reads that value wrongly. You cant actually set 3.9us. Setting 1.95 and 3.9 defaults to 7.8 setting 7.8us defaults to 15.6us.

ElAguila
08-23-2005, 08:41 AM
With the 150 divider working I can get my system at 293x9 with the memory running at 220ht 2.5-3-3-9@1t which isn't bad for 2x1024 sticks. I need to wait for my other heatsink though to keep it at that speed.

sideeffect
08-23-2005, 05:07 PM
Thats a nice overclock ElAguila. Im really quite happy with this 1.A bios i think i might keep it. Running at 270 x 11 with a 183 divider atm with tight memory timings.

Its almost identical performance to 300 x 10 with 166 divider. I lose 20 mhz of ram speed but with 2.5-2-2-8 instead of 2.5-3-3-8 i get same bandwidth in sisoft sandra and same pifast scores :)

7200 mb/s sisoft

ElAguila
08-23-2005, 05:16 PM
My heatsink is fubarred right now for some reason. I am waiting for my scythe ninja to come in. It should be here by Thursday. If I can keep a handle on the heat, I have had this cpu running at 2.75ghz before.

sideeffect
08-23-2005, 05:33 PM
ElAguila check out this thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=71044&page=1&pp=25) it has a program that measures your tcase temperature which is to do with how well the cpu casing is applied on your cpu.

The higher the tcase the higher the overclock.

Sonic9
08-23-2005, 06:10 PM
SideEffect, What chips are on your crucial ballistix ?
Prime again during the night ... argh it's too slow to testing the stability :(

++

ElAguila
08-23-2005, 06:39 PM
That is an interesting thread. I ran the program and my max tcase was 63C. I was paranoid about it hitting 50C. When my new heatsink comes in I may be able to try the 2.8GHz with your latest bios.

FlyingHamster
08-23-2005, 07:49 PM
sideeffect I sent u a PM ;)

sideeffect
08-23-2005, 08:15 PM
sideeffect I sent u a PM ;)

And i answered it about 10 mins after you sent it. Was yesterday i think didnt you get it?

sideeffect
08-23-2005, 09:03 PM
SideEffect, What chips are on your crucial ballistix ?
Prime again during the night ... argh it's too slow to testing the stability :(

++

My chips are 505 double sided 512mb sticks. I havnt taken the heat spreaders off to take a closer look.

msimax
08-23-2005, 09:04 PM
well my stuff finaly came go start testing


http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/3822/imga00312ar.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

msimax
08-23-2005, 09:13 PM
a pic of modded booster a must in my book if ur using winbond with neo2 cause to much heat is in that confined area .plus with that my bh5 finally hit 275




http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/5820/imga00330hq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/8755/imga00347eh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

iMAX
08-23-2005, 11:30 PM
I have a cold bug problem with my systems

MSI Neo2
Sandy 3500+ 512KB L2
Gskill TCCD 4400 LE
CoolerMaster RP450W

My system can stable at @300*10 on watercooling,

I've tried a lot of 1.36b, 1.37b, 1.9, A.1, sideeffect bios, but everytime when I set HTT over 240Mhz in bios (ex @280*10), if I turn off PC and turn on agian, it'll not boot. I have to clear bios and setting bios agian

Anyone Please help me. Thank for informations.

Lestat
08-23-2005, 11:40 PM
with every bios under 1.9 all you have to do is hit Insert then go into the bios and hit save changes

anything over 1.8 then yes you have to reset the bios.

Lestat
08-23-2005, 11:43 PM
dear god dude who modded that booster ?

i mean no offense but does that thing even run ?

what did they solder it with a torch ?

msimax
08-23-2005, 11:59 PM
it runs

msimax
08-24-2005, 12:03 AM
just finished the ram im in win testing now 250mgz ram



http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9260/imga00394ke.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 12:11 AM
Fixes to Rev1 and 2

- Now all options available in bios will show.
- Full logo and small logo can now be enabled but are disabled by default
- Memory voltage default set to Auto
- Nvidia lan is now on by default.

Many people didnt like the hidden options so i re-enabled it all. Ill probably make a Lite Edition for those who like a cleaner looking bios with all the junk removed.

Any more suggestions on memory timings? Or shall i leave it alone now.

@ iMAX the 1.A4 is supposed to be better at dealing with the cold boot problem than the 1.A official did you try this bios to see if thats true?

Thats just what i have heard i dont experiance the cold boot issue with either versions but i did with the 1.9 bios.

D3kMatrix
08-24-2005, 12:11 AM
LOL
No offence,, but man thats a mess :P

Is that hot glue?1?!

On that 1 pic of the booster it looks like theres a 1/4" of glue between the ram sink and the metal its mounted to? :P
If anything that HOLDS heat :P

And yeah crazy solder job :P

msimax
08-24-2005, 12:14 AM
thanks :) :)

msimax
08-24-2005, 12:16 AM
how do u run prime95 twice to test the cores

D3kMatrix
08-24-2005, 12:18 AM
how do u run prime95 twice to test the cores

You have to run 2 instances of prime at a time to max both cores at once.

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 12:18 AM
D3kMatrix You need to update your bios list with the 1.A official and *cough* my bios :)

D3kMatrix
08-24-2005, 12:20 AM
D3kMatrix You need to update your bios list with the 1.A official and *cough* my bios :)

Yeah I know I have them all downloaded and on the server, but I need to get to bed, work at 6am =(
So tomorrow it will be updated :D

msimax
08-24-2005, 12:31 AM
when i click on the icon twice it doesnt give me two windows

iMAX
08-24-2005, 12:36 AM
@ iMAX the 1.A4 is supposed to be better at dealing with the cold boot problem than the 1.A official did you try this bios to see if thats true?

Thats just what i have heard i dont experiance the cold boot issue with either versions but i did with the 1.9 bios.

Thank a lot , but where can I download 1.A4? :p:

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 12:43 AM
Well you can get it from Here (http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl=en&u=http://msi.designlab.info/thread.php%3Fthreadid%3D18383%26sid%3Dc4b485f0b554 8bc6b39b93e6ef6b869c)

Thats the Murdok version.

I just modded a version with the 183, 150 dividers but its not ready yet. Murdok is going to mod it with defaults.

iMAX
08-24-2005, 12:48 AM
Thank man, I'll try it ^_^.

msimax
08-24-2005, 01:02 AM
this thing sucks cant do 2.6 on any voltage or any core

msimax
08-24-2005, 02:12 AM
wonder if i should rma it and see if i get a better one or take the 15% refund hit :(

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 02:19 AM
wonder if i should rma it and see if i get a better one or take the 15% refund hit :(

Try and burn the cpu in with toast it can increase the overclock. X2 processers will rarely overclock as well as X1 cpu's.

msimax
08-24-2005, 03:45 AM
anything higher than 2.595 it just bsod then reboots now matter what volts .i have a winnie that does the samething so i dont think burn will work

ElAguila
08-24-2005, 04:20 AM
when i click on the icon twice it doesnt give me two windows

Create 2 shortcuts and name them Prime0 and Prime1. Go to the properties and one one put -A0 after the prime95.exe and on the other put -A1. This tells each one to use a different core. So the target of the shortcuts would look something like this:
C:\tools\Prime95\Prime95.exe -A0
C:\tools\Prime95\Prime95.exe -A1

Launch the Prime0 and go to Options > Torture Test and Select Custom. If you only have 1GB or RAM then use 400 in the Memory to Use box(if you have 2GB RAM then select 800). Now launch the Prime1 shortcut and follow the same procedure. Now when you go to the task manager your should see both cpu's being used. I read these instructions somewhere but I cannot remember where I got them. I will post it if I remember.

ElAguila
08-24-2005, 05:10 AM
anything higher than 2.595 it just bsod then reboots now matter what volts .i have a winnie that does the samething so i dont think burn will work

What voltage are you using? I am currently at 290*9 with 1.46v and sideeffects rev 2 bios. With this board I have the voltage at 1.425+5%. Also what revision are you using? My x2 3800 is the BH-E4 chip.

DrJay
08-24-2005, 06:48 AM
LOL
No offence,, but man thats a mess :P

Is that hot glue?1?!

On that 1 pic of the booster it looks like theres a 1/4" of glue between the ram sink and the metal its mounted to? :P
If anything that HOLDS heat :P

And yeah crazy solder job :P
Yeah, that looks like glue on the booster and ram. I'm sure that helps heat transfer... :rolleyes:

msimax
08-24-2005, 08:36 AM
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/8339/best22tb.jpg

msimax
08-24-2005, 08:37 AM
the glue doesnt hurt :) :)

Xyus89
08-24-2005, 10:20 AM
sorry for repeating this.

yesterday Speedfan reported 41 stressed with toast and 28 idle
today it reports 34stressd and 28 idle.
I've been Priming/burning in my cpu allot so has it taken effect or is there something wrong with the temp sensors?

xyus
(with computers nothing happens by it's self so that's why I'm asking)

Publ!k En3my
08-24-2005, 11:07 AM
Dear all,

I have flashed the BIOS 1.A (downloaded at MSI Global site (http://66.96.84.4/support/bos_exe/mbd_bios/7025v1A.zip)) using WinFlash 1.76 to my MSI nForce 3 Ultra (MS-7025 revision 1). After flashing, I rebooted the machine. My computer didnt POST but a "long beep" happens.

Even I cleared the CMOS, the problem still occured. I unplugged all the power cable and waited for a while. I booted my machine up again, it can get into the window again. I have restarted the Window for serveral times and it were fine.

Anyway, I had decided to track this problem and it does still exist. Do you guys know what is my problem? Will the previous BIOS will help in this situation?

ElAguila
08-24-2005, 01:31 PM
I think the furarred cpu temps are a product of the nf3 chipset in general. I had the same problem on the nf3 250 regardless of what board I used. I am currently running my 2x1024 sticks in slots 1 and 2. Has anyone determined whether slots 1 and 2 are any better or more stable at oc'ing that slots 3 and 4 or visa versa?

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 01:52 PM
I only have problems with the temperatures when i dont have a cpu fan and a NB fan installed. Even though i dont use the cpu fan on my cpu just pluging a fan in there sorts it out.

Arkangyl
08-24-2005, 02:11 PM
I havent seen this mentioned before so just FYIish

with my UTT timings of

2-2-2-8
2-2-2-5

default to a 2T command rate, kills bandwith. Just a headsup

2-3-3-8 stays T1, I'm gonna do some more testing now, if anyone knows a fix to this issue, please let me know

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 02:51 PM
What bios you using Arkangyl. It defaults to 2T with a san diego or venice E6 cpu when in bios versions before 1.9. But you have a winchester so hmm.

there are 2 bios versions made by NFM that force 1T command maybe give them a try.

Arkangyl
08-24-2005, 03:17 PM
I've tried 1.36 and 1.37 mod's (forget whose mod)

I'm 99% sure 1T has worked before because when borrowing some Micron 5B -G ram I had it at 3-3-3-8 265mhz and I was get 7500 mb/s bandwith which seems 1T to me.

Also Sandra says I'm running 1 channel

current setup

HTT :: 200mhz
2-2-2-5 1T
vDIMM = 3.3v rail mod
LTD = 5x
CPU = 9x
vCore = 1.5
vDIMM = auto (ought be 3.3v rail)
vAGP = 1.65
Spread Spec = off
PCI auto detect = on

Here's the Sandra output

SiSoftware Sandra

Benchmark Results
RAM Bandwidth Int Buff'd iSSE2 : 5344 MB/s
RAM Bandwidth Float Buff'd iSSE2 : 5277 MB/s

Int Buff'd iSSE2 (Integer STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 5361MB/s
Scaling : 5367MB/s
Addition : 5329MB/s
Triad : 5321MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 84% (estimated)

Float Buff'd iSSE2 (Float STREAM) Results Breakdown
Assignment : 5361MB/s
Scaling : 5366MB/s
Addition : 5210MB/s
Triad : 5171MB/s
Data Item Size : 16 byte(s)
Buffering Used : Yes
Offset Displacement Used : Yes
Bandwidth Efficiency : 82% (estimated)

Performance Test Status
Run ID : MATT64 on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 at 4:15:22 AM
Memory Used by Test : 512MB
NUMA Support : No
SMP Test : No
Total Test Threads : 1
SMT Test : No
Dynamic MP/MT Load Balance : No
Processor Affinity : P0
Page Size : 4kB
Use Large Memory Pages : No

Chipset 1
Model : Micro-Star International Co Ltd (MSI) ??? (00E1)
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 1005MHz (2010MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 16-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 8040MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 1 Memory Banks

Chipset 2
Model : Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) Athlon 64 / Opteron HyperTransport Technology Configuration
Front Side Bus Speed : 2x 1005MHz (2010MHz data rate)
In/Out Width : 16-bit / 16-bit
Maximum Bus Bandwidth : 8040MB/s (estimated)

Logical/Chipset 2 Memory Banks
Bank 0 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.0-2-2-2CL 2CMD
Bank 1 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.0-2-2-2CL 2CMD
Channels : 1
Bank Interleave : 2-way
Speed : 2x 200MHz (400MHz data rate)
Width : 128-bit
Maximum Memory Bus Bandwidth : 6400MB/s (estimated)

Features
(W)MMX Technology : Yes
SSE Technology : Yes
SSE2 Technology : Yes
SSE3 Technology : No
EMMX - Extended MMX Technology : Yes
HTT - Hyper-Threading Technology : No

Performance Tips
Notice 5008 : To change benchmarks, click Options.
Notice 5004 : Synthetic benchmark. May not tally with 'real-life' performance.
Notice 5006 : Only compare the results with ones obtained using the same version!
Tip 233 : Consider using the Win64 x64 version of SiSoftware Sandra.
Tip 2 : Double-click tip or press Enter while a tip is selected for more information about the tip.

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 03:41 PM
Bank 0 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.0-2-2-2CL 2CMD
Bank 1 : 512MB DDR-SDRAM 2.0-2-2-2CL 2CMD

When sisoft sandra reports 2cmd its not refering to 1T or 2T. If you want to see if your in 1T or 2T use athlon 64 tweaker and it will say 2t timing disabled if your in 1t.

Also you can use everest or rmma to show your timing.

FlyingHamster
08-24-2005, 05:57 PM
And i answered it about 10 mins after you sent it. Was yesterday i think didnt you get it?

Strange, I never got it. :( Could u PLZ resend it?

sideeffect
08-24-2005, 06:28 PM
FlyingHamster - Theres a good guide in the readme that comes with the bios files on the msi website.

Lestat
08-24-2005, 10:55 PM
sideeffect and syar -

I have now confirmed tha thte bios's you hacked is hat casued my video performance to go down the toilet.

after trying 3 different set of drivers. Sideeffects bios, Syars bios and the .36 Rev4 by NFM.... well guess what the 1.36 and 1.8 bios are the only bios's that allow my 6800 Ultra to get SOMEWHAT close to where it should be.
syar and SE bios = 4600-4800 in 3dmark 05
1.36 and 1.8 = 5700~5800 in 3dmark 05.

so maybe your not changing anything , maybe its MSI i dont know but i may get better memory overclocks but fellas i cant use this bios.

1)
i STILL cant use any add in IDE or SATA PCI card. it refuses to boot if i have a drive hooked to it.
2)
AGP bus is totally fubar'd very poor performance.
3)
and it just overall feels really slow compared to the others. maybe timings on something maybe sata rom ? whatever,,


so thanks again for you rwicked mods...

SE anychance you could take the 1.36 Rev 4 and give it the same memory timings you have for the 1.a0 bios ? the ones that give me nice clocks. ?

id like to see if THAT is whats causing it or if i can keep good agp performance and get better memory performance with your 1.0A bios timings.

It's worth a shot and maybe we can send MSI an email letting them know something isnt right with their bios.

msimax
08-24-2005, 11:39 PM
well it looks like those gkills were holding me back i think there faulty put my trusty 5 year old bh5 im test at 2.808 at 1.47v with my x2 3800

msimax
08-24-2005, 11:45 PM
i have up to 3.0ghz and my mb is starting to sing is that safe. i dont want a repeat of my gigabyte board

sideeffect
08-25-2005, 01:41 AM
Lestat I really think those graphics card issues are either just you or quite rare. I sufferend no performance loss when going to 1.A bios.

I havnt made any changes to anything related to the AGP either so its a 1.A thing for you.

Also i havnt seen anyone else using 1.A bios complaining about graphics issues/slowdowns.

Now im not saying that the bios isnt causing the issues because it obviously is but its got to be something that doesnt effect everybody like IRQ placement, temperarture related slowdowns or bad settings.

Im using a 6800GT with the bios. 3dmark 2003 and 2005 scores are almost identical for me.

One thing i have noticed is that its slightly less aggresive on the agp bus but that means i can overclock the graphics card more. Like i was 410 mhz core on 1.8 bios and now im 425 mhz core on 1.A bios.

Draxx
08-25-2005, 06:21 AM
Hey guys, how can I increase the chipset voltage on this board? I hear that raising AGP voltage from 1.5v ups the chipset voltage.

If this is the case, how much does it raise it by? Also whats a safe limit for the AGP card over 1.5v? (I have a 6800GT 128Mb version).

Thanks

ElAguila
08-25-2005, 08:26 AM
What type of ide/sata card are you trying to use. I have 2 sil680 pci ide/raid cards and they run fine for me.

sideeffect
08-25-2005, 01:27 PM
Made a ballistix version of my 1.A mod bios that should work best with Crucial Ballistix. It works better than any other bios with my ballistix so i hope its a common trate.

Working on a TCCD version next with help from CD1986 and his TCCD chips.

Edit - TCCD version is out and seems to be more stable than default settings by quite a bit :toast:

CD 1986
08-25-2005, 01:43 PM
Yeh, anyone with TCCD memory should try out the new 1.Amod for TCCD when it's out...works great on my system. :)

Xyus89
08-25-2005, 02:48 PM
Hi,

the newest bios really sucks,

I got to 294HTT on the first bios from msi (overclocked very briefly) now I can't hit 289, 288 is rockstable but as soon as it touches 289 htt , instant freeze.

time to go to 1.A.
anyone else experiencing a problem with the official msi bios and what was helped with an unofficial bios?

xyus

msimax
08-25-2005, 03:09 PM
i was just doin some testing in sandra with my x23800 and it showed my clock speed at 2.3 but im at 2.9 score is low also. pcmark04 shows 6500 pcmark05 shows like 1900 marks .online this score sucks hard and this is with redline at 263 and a x800xt just seems weird cpuz shows my overclock as does core center my bios is 1.a0r3..

sideeffect
08-25-2005, 03:40 PM
Hi,

the newest bios really sucks,

I got to 294HTT on the first bios from msi (overclocked very briefly) now I can't hit 289, 288 is rockstable but as soon as it touches 289 htt , instant freeze.

time to go to 1.A.
anyone else experiencing a problem with the official msi bios and what was helped with an unofficial bios?

xyus
Dont understand what bios is the first bios and what bios you using now that cant hit what you had before.

And you say the newest bios really sucks then later you say "time to go to 1.A" 1.A is the newest bios ....

Lestat
08-25-2005, 03:50 PM
side effect the irq placements dont have anything to do with it like i initially thought.. the irq's are all the same and it still get way better performance with the older bios's.

like is iad your not touching the AGP but something within that bios is wrong. i just wish i knew what.

latencies are all the same i already checked latencies with the latency config tool.


anyways,, there is something there that is directly related to the agp performance


again any chance of having you alter the 1.36 rev 4 with the same memory timings you have for the 1.a bios ? i liked the 1.a cuz it gave me better memory clocks. Memory performance was NOT better though,, identicle settings i still got higher sandra marks ..

anyways if you get a chance and wanna play around, throw those timings on the 1.36 rev 4 and let me have it. im curious to see how it works.

sideeffect
08-25-2005, 03:55 PM
:slap: 1.36 cant be modded with dividers sry lestat.

Did you try overclocking the video card Lestat? because i can overclock mine much more than before with the new bios.

Lestat
08-25-2005, 07:28 PM
mine is already overclocked .. so no i never tried..

but performance was just crap,,,lol ugh maybe ill try it this weekend and see what happens..


and i never said divider guy i said all the extra memory timings.

like opening up all the hidden memory settings and also you changed the settings that we complained about that MAY have been holding back the memory you loosened them up a little but by default i think..

anyways i dont care about the divider lol just all the memory cas timings.

msimax
08-25-2005, 07:31 PM
anyone notice when u use the 166 div sandra and all benchs are really low when using x2 3800 with bh5 this is with 1.aor3 bios

D3kMatrix
08-25-2005, 11:52 PM
Sideeffect, I updated my BIOS page, let me know if any of the information for you BIOS's is incorrect. =)

BTW thanks for doing all of these MODs, I'm guna have to try out the TCCD rev when I get home from work tomorrow =)

aphelion
08-26-2005, 01:55 AM
Hey guys,

Hopefully you can help me out. I recently flashed (succesfully) to sideeffect's 1.A Official revision 1 BIOS with the following string:

/py/sn/wb/cd/cp/f

I purposely left out the /cc (clear cmos) switch because my Gigaram sticks won't let me boot unless I have VDIMM at 2.85v and the settings at 2-3-2-5. After flashing, I rebooted the computer, and it POSTed. I went into the BIOS and reset everything except for the VDIMM and timings. I saved and rebooted, and system POSTed again. Next, I proceeded to power-off my system. Once I powered on, however, the system would not POST.

I tried the following:

1. Clear CMOS through jumper
2. Clear CMOS through battery removal
3. Tried working Corsair Valuselect RAM
4. Removed Soundcard, hard drive, floppy, etc.
5. Took motherboard out of case, with only video, connected

...and still nothing. I read that bad ram can destroy a system, and that's what I think I did. I tried using the two sticks of Gigaram (see signature) in another system and it would not post. Then I tried the valueselect stick, and now I have another non-posting system...

Additional symptoms include:

1. System turns on once I switch the power supply on. I don't even touch the power button on the front of the case and the system powers on. So to be articulate, all fans come on (system and cpu), hard drives power up, CD-ROMs power on and have steady power light on. If hard drive is connected, LED for HDD activity is steadily lit on the front of the case. Also, the motherboard doesn't respond to the power button when I hold it for 4-seconds or longer. It won't turn off. I have to use the same switch on the PSU to turn it off.

If any of you have suggestions, I am ready and willing to do anything, even RMA the ram. I just hope I can do something else about this motherboard. I hope it isn't dead.

Xyus89
08-26-2005, 02:30 AM
with the first bios I was able to hit +295HTT with 1.9 and sideeffect his bios I can't hit 289, 288 goes perfect bus as soon as it touches 289 it instantly freezes.
my HT frequency is set to 2x & ram divider on 166 mhz so... dunno what's wrong.


and how do I install the first bios from the msi site with winflash? it doesn't contain a .BIN file?


xyus

sideeffect
08-26-2005, 04:58 AM
The bios files after 1.8 often wont go as high in HTT as the the ones before. Its a common trait across all the newer bios files. My bios files should allow better memory overclocks than the official 1.A but it wont allow a higher HTT than the 1.A official because its exactly the same cpu, divider tables.

sideeffect
08-26-2005, 05:08 AM
If any of you have suggestions, I am ready and willing to do anything, even RMA the ram. I just hope I can do something else about this motherboard. I hope it isn't dead.

Problem is that The newer bios really needs a clean start. So you need to clear cmos right away as soon as you flash start it and ussually remove the power supply lead and sometimes even remove the ide leads.

Your issue is strange though sounds like a cold boot problem but that should go away after you clear the cmos and start again. I guess the memory not booting unless its 2.85 volts could be a problem.

If you have the ability to hot flash the bios chip i think that would be worth a try. Its possible the bios is corrupted and so wont boot.

If you get the board running again i can make you a newer bios that has a memory voltage of 2.85v on boot so you dont have to worry about clearing cmos.

Xyus89
08-26-2005, 05:12 AM
Hi,
I found my problem.
HT frequency, if I put it to x2 I can't hit 289 put If I put it to x3 I can.

I've reached 2850mhz ;)
http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/844/2826mhz6kx.jpg

I have got higher with 200mhz but didn't take a screenie.
(when I just installed xp I got a superpi of 33.5s @ 2690mhz @ 2.5-3-3-6, now I get a superpi of 33.800 @ 2720mhz :( , time for a format )

how do you like my suicide ?
the cpu love's the vcore.
Xyus

CD 1986
08-26-2005, 05:33 AM
Just tested the 3D performance of the 1.A mod (TCCD version) after seeing Lestat having problems with benchmarks.

Using exactly the same settings as with the 1.8mod bios, my 3dmark03 increased by around 150 points using the new bios, so i don't think it should be a problem for most users.

Lestat, maybe reflash the bios once more, using the TCCD version of 1.A and try 3d benchmarks again...might just have been a bad flash. I always use winflash myself without problems, but always clear the CMOS for a few minutes after flashing.

sideeffect
08-26-2005, 06:00 AM
Yes i also beat my best score with 3dmark 2003 on the 1.A bios now over 14000 points.

Dr.Leary
08-26-2005, 06:51 AM
Sideeffect: What revision would you recommend for Mushkin Redline?

jmcgee_jr
08-26-2005, 07:06 AM
hey guys been followng this postfor a while now about once a week I come here and recently iahve been on the 1.5 bios (it works for me) Well I decided to try sideffects bios to see if it would give me anything and LOW and behold no .5 multipliers in it :( I tried 1.9 and all that too. so im back at 1.5 why is there no .5 multis anymore. that is the sweet spot for me with my 3000+ venice im at 312x8.6 thats 2650 at 1.6V with my ram at 208 its corsair pc3200c2. its CH6 memory IIRC.

jmcgee_jr
08-26-2005, 07:14 AM
Also is there any chance of getting the 143mhz mem option on our boards?

sideeffect
08-26-2005, 07:21 AM
If mushkin Redline is BH5 or UTT then probably revision 1 is right for you because stock timings are already tight. The revisions mostly relax timings to get higher HTT.

The .5 mulits arent in the bios files after 1.8. They didnt set a .5 multi anyway they set a 183 divider. Because the new bios files have 183 divider or they should have done you dont need the .5 multi anymore.

And no there is no 143 divider for neo2 yet.

ElAguila
08-26-2005, 07:31 AM
Anyone tried the tccd bios yet? I think I will give that a try this evening. I got my scythe ninja installed and my temps are lower under load than with the xp90c so when I get home this evening I am looking to oc a little differently using the tccd bios. I am going to see how the memory does in slots 3 and 4 versus 1 and 2.

jmcgee_jr
08-26-2005, 07:36 AM
If mushkin Redline is BH5 or UTT then probably revision 1 is right for you because stock timings are already tight. The revisions mostly relax timings to get higher HTT.

The .5 mulits arent in the bios files after 1.8. They didnt set a .5 multi anyway they set a 183 divider. Because the new bios files have 183 divider or they should have done you dont need the .5 multi anymore.

And no there is no 143 divider for neo2 yet.


Umm come again :) RIght now im at 8.5x312 cpu-z says im at 2650mhz and ram is at 204mhz. So am i really not at 2650? or what im lost HAHAH. in more ways then one.

sideeffect
08-26-2005, 08:18 AM
Yes you really are at 2650mhz and yes the ram is what cpu-z says to its just that there are no .5 multipliers on athlon 64 so its a complex series of dividers going on there.

jmcgee_jr
08-26-2005, 09:23 AM
Yes you really are at 2650mhz and yes the ram is what cpu-z says to its just that there are no .5 multipliers on athlon 64 so its a complex series of dividers going on there.


So if i want to stay at where im at I have to keep this bios? That really sucks. Thanks for the help...arggh.

Lestat
08-26-2005, 10:05 AM
Just tested the 3D performance of the 1.A mod (TCCD version) after seeing Lestat having problems with benchmarks.

Using exactly the same settings as with the 1.8mod bios, my 3dmark03 increased by around 150 points using the new bios, so i don't think it should be a problem for most users.

Lestat, maybe reflash the bios once more, using the TCCD version of 1.A and try 3d benchmarks again...might just have been a bad flash. I always use winflash myself without problems, but always clear the CMOS for a few minutes after flashing.


CD,

i initially thought that when i flashed so in actuallity i have flashed like 4-5 times hen going back and forth between syars and SE's bios. so after that many flashes nah its not a bad flash.

i dont know... just frustrating ya know..

but if SE can implement the same ram cas settings he used in 1.a that got me higher ram into the 1.,36 rev 4 bios id be happy to flash and take a spin with it. 1.36 has 4 ram timings. just open up the other ones so i can use them... plz guy :toast:

just whatever MSI did with the 1.a bios's i cant use them cuz it refuses to let me use my promise IDE controller card so no matter if i got a billion points in 3dmark i wouldnt use it i have too many hard drives that i need daily and i cant use them if i use the 1.A bios.

ggrrr MSI you need a spankin