View Full Version : 2 new containers
LardArse
09-20-2004, 11:06 AM
Finishing up 2 containers for LN2
The GPU container:
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/gpucontainer1.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/gpucontainer2.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/gpucontainer4.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/gpucontainer3.JPG
Unfortunately, the immense mass of the container made it very difficult for every part to be hot enough for the filler metal to flow evenly, especially so since brazing on the stove is not very possible. I just discovered a very slight leak. Will patch up with silicone and have a catch below so that if any LN2 trickles down it should evaporate pretty quickly on the catch.
The CPU container...
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/cpucontainer1.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/cpucontainer2.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/cpucontainer3.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/containers1.JPG
Need to catch a good source for LN2 then its party time! :banana:
pythagoras
09-20-2004, 11:44 AM
Nice containers :) Slightly OT but how much water can the cpu tube hold? And would you fancy carrying out a little experiment whilst your waiting for the LN2 to arrive :devil:
Regards
John.
SwimmerBoy
09-20-2004, 02:49 PM
Looking good.... keep the good work..
[[]]
|-jokker-|
09-20-2004, 03:02 PM
We want marks :D
Good job Shamino
JacobHansen
09-21-2004, 07:12 AM
Hey Shamino
Nice containers, .. What are the measurements for the big tube and that are the inside measurements for the GPU Container.. ?
Im planing on something similiar although my Containers will be DANISH aswell as the records :)) *kidding*
LardArse
09-21-2004, 08:33 AM
The cpu container is huge, never really measured how big but its BIG :D It will be mounted like this:
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/cpucontainer4.JPG
I just need to mill a groove to clear some caps... and cut off a bit of the NB HSF :)
The gpu containeris this long
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/gpucontainer5.JPG
I can get LN2 quite cheap it seems, $1.50/L, but I have to get 50L minimum at one go :eek:
LardArse
09-23-2004, 07:59 AM
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/cpucontainer5.JPG
Just about good to go :D
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2a.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2b.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2c.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2d.JPG
cold_ice
09-23-2004, 08:16 AM
Awesome pics, these containers are really huge!
good luck with the LN2
Nice! Can sell the containers to me after you're done playing with em'? :D
My current container ain't that great. The base is very thin, can't hold the temp very well. I've got my FX to 3Ghz but can't bench at all, even at stock speed! Dunno whether it's because of the container or something else.....
LardArse
09-24-2004, 03:45 PM
VR-Zone Team met up at VR office last night for a midnight LN2 session. Didn't manage to break any records, CPU and especially GFX card went way mad at the temps...
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2cold6.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2cold5.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2cold3.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/gpucold2.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/ln2cold3.JPG
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/mobocold1.JPG
The CPU goes a lil mad being detected as 1.7G
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/5183.JPG
Now we know why so little people bench 3D with LN2... its just really tough and a tad too cold to control on the GFX...
Another tank of LN2 to go once we tighten up insulation
Man if that's a 3.4ee at those speeds i would love to see a 3d01 run.
Looks like it's a pain but has to be loads of fun!
GL and be safe
gkiing
09-24-2004, 11:31 PM
Looks like you got yourself a little bit of condensation :hehe:
cold_ice
09-25-2004, 01:31 AM
Lol nice pics
A little bit frost on the card, and mobo :D
koensa
09-25-2004, 02:28 AM
isnt al that condensation ( even water!) bad for the elekriek components?
cuz water is conductive!?
DarkManX_BG
09-25-2004, 07:33 AM
isnt al that condensation ( even water!) bad for the elekriek components?
cuz water is conductive!?
This is ice, which is just frozen pure H20, which is NOT conductive.
It's insulated anyway ;)
Unknown_road
09-25-2004, 09:32 AM
well think you're the first one to put a 1.7Ghz cpu @ 5.2 ghz lol! nice job!
Bennah
09-25-2004, 10:41 AM
Get your self one of them 3.6 P4's and go after the team akiba's 6GHz record :D
charlie
09-25-2004, 12:18 PM
No, it actually IS the water making the board/Graphics freak out... it's happened to me 100x.... just insulate better! And I don't care what ANYONE says.... when frost melts to water and slides under capacitors, it's conductive! Maybe it picks up impurities off the pcb or whatever, but it DOES>
C
DarkManX_BG
09-25-2004, 11:00 PM
when frost melts to water and slides under capacitors, it's conductive! Maybe it picks up impurities off the pcb or whatever, but it DOES>
Yeah, I've heard about that. But, judging by the pictures, this frost isn't going to melt anytime soon :D
LardArse
09-26-2004, 12:27 AM
Well just couldn't get 3D to work right, quite a nightmare using LN2 on the GPU
All the insulation on the card seems to be futile, even the vmod wires are frosted
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/toocold1.JPG
Even the DVI conector area is frosted
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/toocold2.JPG
Lowest the GPU overdrive will go is -128C it seems
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/minus128.JPG
Lowest I got a picture of the container is -192C
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/minus191.JPG
Have a 5277Mhz screenie on the office Hard disk, no impressive numbers, but we still had a lot of fun using the LN2 on a lot of "other stuff" :)
Think I'll stick with cascade cooling for now, at least on the GPU.
LardArse
09-26-2004, 01:12 AM
I think the caps get too cold.
JacobHansen
09-26-2004, 03:43 AM
If id do something like that ( which i will in the following weeks ) then id Insulate the motherboard so bad, that you only can se the CPU and the mods. Its IMO ( no offense LardArse ) very riski just to run without haveing insulated the GFX at all it seems.
But Its sure´s Hell nice to watch ;)
LardArse
09-26-2004, 04:35 AM
I have, the uninsulated card is just to try out the clamping. The frost is actually on top of the insulative seal string
JacobHansen
09-26-2004, 04:58 AM
ohh - My bad, I just cant see it on the pictures. Sorry m8 :)
saaya
09-26-2004, 05:05 AM
hmmm maybe you should try it in a sealed box with no air humidity... maybe that helps.
there are may ways to reduce the air humidity to 0 easily. then just make two holes in the box so the container heads look out of it so you can refill them.
and you need a 3.6ghz prescott to make use of the ln2 :D you need the multi! :D
still very nice, and the pics are really funny! hahahah all the ice and the ati driver shot at -128C gpu temp are hilarious! :lol:
good work! :toast:
LardArse
09-26-2004, 06:30 PM
I think we are being too greedy. I think if we are going to do it next we will try to maintain the container at -120C, -190C is certainly not that good for benching.
Hilppa
10-09-2004, 11:38 PM
In my opinion you made those containers way too big for LN2 (doensn't really matter), but since LN2 boils at ~ -196 Celcius, and your processor shuts down at ~ -130 C and as you said your graphics card at ~ -128 C, you really cant pour the tube full :D I have a 0,7L tube for my processor, and it takes a 5,5Ghz CO-prescott at 1,82 volts to be able to fill the tube with LN2. It keeps the base of the tube at -145 celcius and the processor at something like ~ -130 ... -120 celcius.
Also you need to seriously enhance your insulation, with IC7-G your voltage starts fluctating seriously if your caps get cold, and that's it.
Also, with that amount of condensation I hope you have used some plastic spray on your mobo, I really recommend doing so, makes you feel a lot safer
:p:
By the way, charlie is right. Pure water is non-conductive, but your mobo is so full of impurities (dust for example) that it makes the water conductive. Ice doesn't conduct, but it isn't a good thing whatsoever.
detonator
10-10-2004, 05:29 AM
think those tube are a bit big for nl2...
gabbax
10-11-2004, 12:11 AM
Well just couldn't get 3D to work right, quite a nightmare using LN2 on the GPU
All the insulation on the card seems to be futile, even the vmod wires are frosted
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/toocold1.JPG
Even the DVI conector area is frosted
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/toocold2.JPG
Lowest the GPU overdrive will go is -128C it seems
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/minus128.JPG
Lowest I got a picture of the container is -192C
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/Shamino/ln2/minus191.JPG
Have a 5277Mhz screenie on the office Hard disk, no impressive numbers, but we still had a lot of fun using the LN2 on a lot of "other stuff" :)
Think I'll stick with cascade cooling for now, at least on the GPU.
:stick: Mr L, i think u chilled it down wayyyy to much m8 :D , idid have some of that probbs to , we didnt even bothe rto use a "FLUKE", just feeling, damn hard, but it working well. We did say a 10-12 details in 2001, witj a regular cheap PC 9800Pro, @ 616 mhz, since Mr M, wanted higer we even did 632, but when u are so **** exaited, u just pouring the damn LN2 in the Container, turnd black....way tooo cold. We didnt ever let the card went deep frozen, just "easy.frosty" :cool: , and asu u said, its hard, but damn fun, it owns the most..
http://gabbax-projects.com/9800pro.jpg
//Gabbax
Kunaak
10-11-2004, 11:35 AM
you should try and make a air tight box before using LN2 on the videocard. that would eliminate the condensation, and maybe allow you to use the LN2 on the videocard ;)
I always though this would be a good idea to make an air tight case, but have the 2 containers poking out the top and then air proof them and just poor the ln2 in and see how that works. I assume condensation would only for outside the box and that wouldn't be a prob ;)
The idea of making an air-tight case isn't really as easy as you guys say.
The easiest thing that comes to mind is a plexi box "case", obviously with holes in a removable "top" so that the LN2 tubes stick out. Add to that one outlet that you can attach a pump to suck the air out of the plexi at all times! We use pumps in the university for drying stuff under vaccuum. They are pretty expensive but your air pumping needs shouldn't be this great and it would allow you for a cheap model. You DON'T need great "horsepower", just something to constantly suck the humidity away. The thing is that vacuum creates additional "cold"... I have to think this idea through...
Just something that came to mind while reading your posts
GREAT JOB LardArse!!!!!
Usually 2 compressors working with the suction line will do fine to put an entire case in to vaccum. I know I read about an idea where they used compressors to suck out the extra nitrogen that was created from LN2 boiling inside and air tight case. The idea I came up with I think would be better because you wouldnt have to worry about the escaping nitrogen for the pressure, just the basic air inside.
Why would you want to suck air nitrogen out of a case?
It doesn't do any harm. It will not condensate to create additional problems.
Your main concern is to suck humidity out of the case!! Not even air. Maybe you didn't understand my idea... The two LN tubes will "stick out"of the case to allow for pouring in the nitrogen.
stayfrosty
10-12-2004, 06:16 AM
I dont know about createing a strong vaccum correct me if im wrong but if there was a very strong vaccum wouldnt the heat produced by caps and fets have no where to go, as in the heat would just build up on them because it wouldnt be able to transfer itself to the surrounding air cause there is none. Sure there wouldnt be any condensation and the gpu/proc would be cold but everything else would overheat, it would be better to build an airtight case and just take the humidity out of the air inside somehow it some how. I jester created a case like this for a chilled water cool setup http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41154
Nice point stayfrosty. It sounds logical.....
So basically pump the drawn air into something that retains water, and then lead the same air (water free) into the case again (instead of out in the environment, thus creating vacuum) seems more appropriate.
The water retainer can be any number of things (Magnesiun sulfate white powder -not very dangerous unless you want to swallow it :P - among other things) and it seems fairly easy to incorporate it into the whole cirquit... Simply "stuff" part of the tubing with some drying substance (those small silicon bags that come with electronic equipment should work also...) and let the air "dehydrate"....
enzoR
10-12-2004, 08:14 AM
I dont know about createing a strong vaccum correct me if im wrong but if there was a very strong vaccum wouldnt the heat produced by caps and fets have no where to go, as in the heat would just build up on them because it wouldnt be able to transfer itself to the surrounding air cause there is none. Sure there wouldnt be any condensation and the gpu/proc would be cold but everything else would overheat, it would be better to build an airtight case and just take the humidity out of the air inside somehow it some how. I jester created a case like this for a chilled water cool setup http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=41154
you forgot about heat transfer as radiation... and also the cold will travel through the pcb on the mobo cooling out the mosfets and other heat producers.
DudeMiester
10-12-2004, 05:48 PM
Why don't you just couple the LN2 with immersion cooling. Since there is no water in contact with the board then you can't get condensation, plus you get very good cooling on the rest of the MB increasing stability somewhat. Only issue might be if the fluid you use for the immersion might solidify cause of the extreme cold. Not sure if this would really cause a problem though.
Beacuse SLN when LN2 evaporates back in to nitrogen gas it obtains 1000x more volume. If the containers are inside then you need to suck the gas nitrogen out because it will build pressure up and go kaboom.
Charles Wirth
10-12-2004, 06:59 PM
You can use nitrogen with positive pressure and have the enclosure leak to dissipate pressure. What kind of venting do you guys use durring the runs? Please dont tell me you huys do that in a small room with doors closed.
charlie
10-12-2004, 07:54 PM
nitrogen = good, something like 90% of the atmosphere, lol....
no but really, I just open the windows to the house...
Atmosphere wants to be at equilibrium, so a smothering cloud of nitrogen won't really happen, unless you bench in a broom closet, lol... with time, the % of N in the air would simply go UP, I'm actually much MORE irritated by DI + Alk vapors.....I have a sore throat EVERY TIME the day after benching!
C
Beacuse SLN when LN2 evaporates back in to nitrogen gas it obtains 1000x more volume. If the containers are inside then you need to suck the gas nitrogen out because it will build pressure up and go kaboom.
That's why the tubes will stick out of the case!! nitrogen will evaporate outside of the case!
I thought I stated the "LN2 tubes sticking out of the ...humidity-sealed case"- thingie more than once. You NEED them to be sticking out of the case in order to be able to fill and refill them without opening the case! Sorry if I lead you to believe that my idea invoved LN2 tubes fully enclosed inside the case.
you can feed LN2 into an evap like chilly1 and fugger or you could do it like that spanish site, (forgot the name) who did a case and fed the ln2.
blah, SLN, stupid day, but if you were to have them inside the case you'd need the compressors, lol.
iboomalot
10-17-2004, 08:45 PM
Iam a newbie but here is my suggestion.
Use argon inside the box and since its heavy it will push the humid air out the top then seal the box once its full of argon.
To eliminate water condensation can't you just do it when the ambient temperature is below zero? Winter is coming..... (Or borrow a walk-in fridge from a meat shop)
blinky
11-16-2004, 12:26 AM
i say u should air condition a semi-airtight box, and have massive airflow flowing through it. so that condensation is hard to condense
or... u could just submerge it all in a dielectric fluid :D
Juicy629
11-16-2004, 10:30 AM
haha...you guys mis the concept of closing evertyhing cept the tops of the tubes...put some of that silicone crap you get with your shoes to remove and humidity in the box..but once you close that thing nothing is getting in...no need for a vacum.....the box is air tight...humidity travels in teh air...see what im saying?
blinky
11-17-2004, 08:42 AM
ohhhhh u guys should get lots of those moisture absorbing packets they put in beef jerky packages :D
I think the caps get too cold.
Hmmm...that could be it, or it could be that the entire damn thing is frozen solid! :slobber:
You guys are nuts....has anyone ever been badly damaged during this stuff? I look at those pics and know I couldn't resist sticking my tongue on one of those tubes.
Seriously...I would never come out of that situation with 5 and 5.
Revv23
11-23-2004, 06:58 PM
yeah that argon idea is solid, hell, you could just put the rig in a big glass bowl, and fill it with argon, itll be like filling a tub with water, only the argon will force the air out :)
no need to seal the box or get any crazy other expensive stuff :)
How long can you run on 50L of Ln2?
I am not sure but will the argon force the humidity out? It's not the air that hurts you, it's the humidity. Nah, never mind, Argon is heavier than H2O so I don't think there will be any problems. The idea should work...
FYI a big "bottle" of Argon (like the 6 feet metal ones in the hospitals that contain oxygen), filled with Argon 200bar pressure will set you back 150euros for the high purity one (99.999%). The normal one will be a lot cheaper, provided of course you return the metal canister, and you dont buy that too.