Radiator advice needed...

[Warden]

My current system consists of an AMD64-3500 running at 2.6ghz and 1.675 volts as well as my 6800 GT running at 460.1200 at 1.4 volts. I'm using a Dangerden TDX block and Dangerden 6800 Block. I have a large heatercore (about 12" x 5 1/2") with a pair of 120mm fans "pushing" air out of the case. My pump is a Blueline HD-30 (Iwaki engineer's new company, very similar to the Iwaki pump). The setup is currently Res-Pump-CPU-GPU-Radiator.

It's setup the way it is due to space limitations with my case but my new case will be here next week and I plan on changing some things around.

My plan is to change it to Res-Pump-Radiator-CPU-GPU to remove the heat from the system just prior to hitting the CPU. I am also going to switch the fans to "Pull" fresh air from the outside of the case, through the radiator.

Now, I have another radiator that is about 6" x 7" and I was considering adding that to the end of the loop, prior to the res with a 120mm fan on it. I would install this at the top of the case and have it pulling air out of the case, through the radiator.

I'm curious what you think of the changes I plan on making as well as the idea of adding the second radiator to the loop.

Thanks!

Warden

[a0chicken]

Would this second Radiator be prior the the 6800? If so, that should do you good. However, it's better to have a fan pulling air through the radiators, rather than pushing in most cases. Otherwise you get more resistance with air hitting the fins and coming backtoward the fan.

[nikhsub1]

The order of components does NOT matter. There is maybe .1C yes, 1/10th of a degree difference between pump > block and pump > rad > block. Go with the route that uses less bends and tubing. I think the 2nd radiator will be useless since you already have a fairly large one.

[a0chicken]

Originally posted by nikhsub1
The order of components does NOT matter. There is maybe .1C yes, 1/10th of a degree difference between pump > block and pump > rad > block. Go with the route that uses less bends and tubing. I think the 2nd radiator will be useless since you already have a fairly large one.
In a single block loop, a second Rad would be useless. He said he has a 6800 GT in the loop too, I'd rather have cooler water for both blocks than just one.

[Warden]

Thanks for the advice so far. I do plan on setting the fans up to "pull" when I redo it as I knew pushing wasn't the best way to go but was my only option for a short time. The Bluline pump is an inline pump but it does raise the water temp by a few degrees so I was thinking if I put the first radiator inline immediately after the pump and before the CPU I might get some benefit.

Warden

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by Warden
The Bluline pump is an inline pump but it does raise the water temp by a few degrees so I was thinking if I put the first radiator inline immediately after the pump and before the CPU I might get some benefit.

Warden
This is what you need to understand. Yes the pump puts heat into the water, they all do. But, the difference in temps between the hottest and coolest water in the loop is in the realm of .5C, 1/2 degree. You won't even be able to detect the difference.

[a0chicken]

Pump -> Rad -> GPU -> Rad -> CPU -> Res -> Pump
Depending on where the components are posistioned, that may work.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by a0chicken
Pump -> Rad -> GPU -> Rad -> CPU -> Res -> Pump
Depending on where the components are posistioned, that may work.
You are not listening... :rolleyes:

[a0chicken]

How much do you think the Processor is going to heat up the water? :confused:

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by a0chicken
How much do you think the Processor is going to heat up the water? :confused:
Do I think or do I KNOW? Here is your answer, follow closely;

Assuming the CPU dumps about 100w of heat into the water, and flow rate is 1GPM (very reasonable):

Water has a thermal capacity of 4186J/Kg-C at 22C, and a density of about 1g/mL

With a flowrate of 1GPM, that’s ~3.75LitersPM.

3.75LPM/60 seconds= 0.0625Liters or Kilograms through the waterblocks per second.

4186*0.0625=261.625W/C

So that's 1C warmer for every 261W

But only 100 watts of heat are present, so: 100/261.625=.38C

Less than 1/2 a degree difference from inlet water temp to outlet water temp from the block. And that is assuming just 1GPM... with higher GPM that temp difference goes DOWN.

[a0chicken]

OK, you're right I'm wrong.
I'm sorry for giving incorrect advice, Warden.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by a0chicken
OK, you're right I'm wrong.
I'm sorry for giving incorrect advice, Warden.
No, it is not about who is right, (although in this case I am) it is about providing you with the equation which will allow you to understand WHY it is so. IMO there is too much 'theory' that is just wrong.

So in conclusion, even if he went ;

pump > CPU > GPU > rad - there would be less than a 1C difference than going;

pump > rad > CPU > GPU. Obviously the second way is preferred, all things being equal, meaning there is no increased tubing or bends in either setup.

[Warden]

Sheesh... thanks for the lesson in thermodynamics :D

Seriously, thanks for all the advice guys. While I haven't measured the flow, I can say that it seems significantly greater than it was with my old Maze-4/Eheim system.

Warden

[Craig]

A Blueline HD30 is much like the Iwaki's, just not sure exactly which Iwaki it matches up to. Could you post the flow/head figures for your Blueline? There are 3 versions of the Iwaki MD30, each with very differant flow/head rates, even though they all share the same motor, the impellor is differant in each.

Thanks

[pauldenton]

there is a table of comparisons here....
http://www.aquadirect.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=496&cat=224&page=1

[freecableguy]

That's why I went with the Blueline Velocity T1....8W more for 10 extra feet of head. Plus it's smaller, looks a hell of a lot better and is damn quiet.

All of the stickers are removed, of course, and it matches the color of my Swiftech block too....BONUS!

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/images/velocitypump.jpg

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by freecableguy
That's why I went with the Blueline Velocity T1....8W more for 10 extra feet of head. Plus it's smaller, looks a hell of a lot better and is damn quiet.

All of the stickers are removed, of course, and it matches the color of my Swiftech block too....BONUS!

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/images/velocitypump.jpg
More than what? The MD-30RZ has 37 feet head (12 more than the T1) and consumes 90w (8w less)

[freecableguy]

More than what? The MD-30RZ has 37 feet head (12 more than the T1) and consumes 90w (8w less)

Than the Blueline HD 30...

The MD-30RZ is an amazing pump but is just too damn big.

[saaya]

90w???

[Gogeta]

90w???
In other words, a :banana4: load... :)

[trans am]

I did that 2 rad setup before and the flow rate went to hell. My suggestion is get a swiftech radbox and hang your dual heatercore upside down behind the case. The cables will have plenty of clearance. This way your rad is outside and you won't need to worry about blowing hot air into the case or pulling hot air into your rad and out of the case. you can still have a fan blowing hot air out of the case and you'll be fine. just remove the bottom PCI slot for the tubes 5/8 tubes and you're all set! No mods to your case. Just shorten those tubes. I have my gpu first in line to cut down on tube length. rad-gpu-cpu-res-pump-rad. Like the man said, there is minimal difference in temps due to the high flow rate. :toast: