TEC + Chiller, disappointing temps

[BermudaTriad]

Hey guys,
fuxor from icronticforums here, but i think this topic is better suited for you guys...

I've put together a little chiller + swiftech MCW462-UHT loop for my AROIA 1600+ on a KX7-333R. I'm using a swiftech relay to turn the TEC on and off with the computer. The coolant in the chiller is a mix of 3 gallons of distilled water and about 1-2 liters of skyy vodka.

The coolant temp is hovering around freezing, but for some reason, my cpu temp is disappointing

When i first boot up, my temp in the bios is 15C or less. By the time i get to windows, it's 22C. within a couple minutes, it's 37C. Load temps are in the mid 40s. I've already tightened the bolts as far as i could (after which i saw a considerable temp drop, but i'm still not satisfied).
Gary at www.sidewindercomputers.com said the diode under the socket isn't very accurate, and can be up to 30C off the actual die temp. He pointed me to swiftech's troubleshooting page (http://www.swiftnets.com/troubleshooting.htm).
I am almost certain the diode is bent down slightly, and isn't making contact with the bottom of the cpu, which could be throwing off the reading, but still, the temp starts off cold, then climbs up.

The area around the socket doesn't feel cold at all, in fact, it tends to the warm side. I really wish i could feel the cold plate, but in my fear of condensation, I've encased everything in closed cell foam and 20mil PVC tape.

do you think it's possible the peltier is facing the wrong way? i mean, it would explain the rise in temps, though i dunno if the block could cool the hot side of the TEC from the other side of the plate, even though the coolant is hovering just below 0C. I'd like to test switching the wires on the pelt psu (currently red to +V, black to -V. the wires come out of the pelt on the side closest to the rear of the case, with the black on the bottom) but i'm also very afraid to do so.
I'm also hesitant to take it apart and retest it all, until i've exhausted all other options.

thanks

ps, the 1600+ is oced to 1.8ghz (180x10)

[Torinalth]

the TEC is NOT upside down..... you would never have made it into windows if it was upside down and the AXP would b in flames. the 226 pelt gets very very hot, very very fast.

couple questions.... did you apply thermal paste first? also if you did apply paste, did you set the cooler down, and bring it back up after tightening it down to make sure it made solid flat contact? did you glue down the neoprene so that it did not get in the way of the pelt? is the water returning to the chiller warm, or is it still cool? is the water going in the correct direction? maybe it is reversed? is the water getting cold?

so many things can go wrong..... let us know.

Torinalth

[OPPAINTER]

Ecxellent points Torinalth,

Also, what are you useing to power the pelt with??

OPP

[Torinalth]

also a good call..... improper power will eat it just the same. not giving it enough power will cause it not to cool propperly.

Torinalth

[BermudaTriad]

samlex 320w switching psu, recommended by swiftech for their pelts. I used as3 on both sides of the pelt, and on the cpu die. it should be making good contact with the cpu. I didn't glue the neoprene, but the swiftech blocks come with pre-cut gaskets that shouldn't interfere with it. I guess i'll take it apart in the next couple days and do some more testing.

when i was leak testing, the bottom of the cold plate was around -30C...

[Torinalth]

thats pretty good

the only thing I can think of is possibly incorrect seating of te TEC.... like, maybe it is not all the way down or something.

Torinalth

[Bushboy]

I think Torinalth is right, I can't see another problem if the bottom of the cold plate is that cold! I had the same problem with my 2200+ and 226W pelt. It took me about 5 tried to seat it properly, because I kept feeling I was gonna crack the core with more pressure, but it turned out more pressure is what I needed. Did you make sure that it is making good contact, as in did you look at the bottom of the cold plate for a perfect thin square or triangle of thermal paste? I know you said it should be making good contact, but I reckon that's what's wrong.

[BermudaTriad]

i tightened the mounting screws as far as possible. I haven't checked it yet (i will within the next day or so) but it should be pretty tight on the core.

I don't remember tightening the cold plate to the waterblock very much, maybe that's what the problem is...

I'll let you guys know what's up by the end of the weekend. if you have any other ideas/suggestions, please keep em coming :)

[mdzcpa]

Stick with the basics and do what has been recommended and remove the block and check for a good seating...it's the only way to be sure you have that issue covered. In fact, every seating of a new waterblock should be checked by lifting it off. Should be standard operating procedure.

[dmitriyaz]

fuxor!
nice to see ya here, i hope you stay :)
heres what i came up with:

- there must be PLENTY of pressure on both sides of the pelt in order for it to function effectively. if you go to manufacturer's site and look through detailed specs, you'll see. so the cold plate has to be tightened to the block as much as possible.

- try taking the whole assembly off the CPU, and putting it back on. there may have been a slight tilt or something. sh|t happns.

thats about it, as far as what can go wrong with the pelt/block assembly; i am suspecting the problem somewhere else. but before i can say anything with any certainty, please provide the following info:

1) what kind of barbs are there on your Swifty?
2) what pump are you using?
1) what is the liquid temperature at full load?

[BermudaTriad]

the 1/2" nylon barbs that came with the block

via aqua 1300

if the chiller is on, the temp stays at or below 0C

I guess I'll take it apart now, it's not even midnight...

[dmitriyaz]

hmm... :brick:

with a 370 gph pump, and no major restrictions in the loop,
0*C water should do wonders to that 226w pelt :eek:

disassemble it;
remove the coldplate, and turn on the pelt while it is attached to the waterblock, and so that you can see the cold side.
if your pelt is f|cked, there will be an area on it that doesn't freeze up, while everything else does.
they do that sometimes.

if not--if your pelt is fine--definetly do this:
tighten the cold plate to the block;
then get a bigass screwdriver, and tighten it some more :)
if you have it, use this thingy:

-0======C <--- screwdriver head
-||
-||
-/ \
|--|
|--| <--- handle
|--|
-\ /
--''
just make sure when its already really tight, you don't tighten one screw considerably more than others.
that will create a tilt and may snap your peltier.
you make sure that doesn't happen by tightening every screw about 1/4 of the full turn, or even less, and move on the next one.
untill its physically not possible to tighten it any more without deforming the peltier.

another thing i'd suggest you consider, is hard-bolting the pelt/block assembly to the CPU.
without any springs, that is.
in order to safely do that, you will need some sort of mechanism to hold the assemply FLAT against the core, while you are slowly tightening the bolts, 1/8 of a full turn at a time, and move on the next one.
its really dangearous, if you are not 100% postive you won't crush the core, you WILL crush the core.

i hope this helps, lemme know how it goes :) -

[BermudaTriad]

thx for the help, but you don't have to walk me through it like a n00b :rolleyes:
turns out the diode wasn't making contact with the bottom of the cpu, and the cold plate wasn't tightened enough on the waterblock...

unfortunately, when i was remounting the block, the TEC wire (that i had to resolder back on earlier) snapped off again. I don't understand why they don't make them with plugs for the wires, it would make transportation as well as use so much easier!

I'm just going to take the TEC out of the system, a chiller will be more than sufficient to get the maximum overclock out of this 1600+ (with my nifty solderless volt-mods :))

I've currently got an offer on the table, for a 9700 in exchange for my 320w pelt psu (http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/samam32inpsu.html), and gainward geforce3, should i go fer it? :D

[dmitriyaz]

Originally posted by BermudaTriad
thx for the help, but you don't have to walk me through it like a n00b :rolleyes:
:hehe: sorry, but its for your own good :hehe:
the last thing i wanted is to fux0rz your stuff :)

as for the deal, you are ripping him off!
the PSU and the ti200 would be AT MOST $240,
i dare you to find a r9700 at that price!
go for it :toast:

[BermudaTriad]

well, i paid $300 for the gf3, and $120 for the power supply...
but I couldn't get more than $100 for it these days, so it is a pretty good deal.

ps, it's quackers, so it's not a bad deal for him either

[dmitriyaz]

Originally posted by BermudaTriad
ps, it's quackers,
that makes it all better!
go ahead with ripping off that asshat, and i'll never say a word! :cool:
don't worry, he'll never see this post, :hehe:
being on XS is making him feel stupid, so he avoids it as much as possible.