PC Power & Cooling 510W ATX-Deluxe

[The Virus]

Guys I have 3 days to make a decision for the best psu available.

I need a psu that can hold a huge amount of load. I had to

downclock my 2.6ghz barton so my games dont crash to desktop

anymore with a geforce 6800gt 430/1150. Is there anything out

in the market that is better then PC power & Cooling or is this

one of a kind psu. I have 300 bucks to spend for a psu so i want

the best thing out there. Thank you.

[bh2k]

That'll do it. :up:

[G|-|oST]

Originally posted by The Virus
Is there anything out in the market that is better then PC power & Cooling

No.

[Mongoose420]

buy a ocz powerstream 520 and take the oh 170$ left over in your budget and stick it under the matress or in your GF's panty drawer or something untill you can add about $200 more to it and get yourself a a64/mobo to go with that card of yours.

but if you want to do it on the cheap jump on this (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120732&Category_Code=AMD64) chips as they are gett'n pretty scarce. Add a DFI nf3 ultra in about a month and your golden.


And if your worrie'n about how these ocz units hold a load mines held down a 2.7ghz 1.7vcore a64 3500+ and a 600/600 x800xt and the rails didnt even wiggle. More impressivly i think macci's use'n it on his monster that definitly eats up more power than mine.

[The Virus]

Originally posted by Mongoose420
buy a ocz powerstream 520 and take the oh 170$ left over in your budget and stick it under the matress or in your GF's panty drawer or something untill you can add about $200 more to it and get yourself a a64/mobo to go with that card of yours.

but if you want to do it on the cheap jump on this (http://www.monarchcomputer.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=M&Product_Code=120732&Category_Code=AMD64) chips as they are gett'n pretty scarce. Add a DFI nf3 ultra in about a month and your golden.


And if your worrie'n about how these ocz units hold a load mines held down a 2.7ghz 1.7vcore a64 3500+ and a 600/600 x800xt and the rails didnt even wiggle. More impressivly i think macci's use'n it on his monster that definitly eats up more power than mine.

I dont know about these ocz psu's because i think they are same build as crappy vanted psu's which i had few months ago and was worse then my 400w allied psu. Here is the comparison.

[The Virus]

vantec

[aoc007]

The Turbo-Cool 510w Deluxe is the best, unless you have PC P&C custom build you a better one.

[lalPOOO]

You're probably better off with the ocz ;)

[Mongoose420]

Originally posted by The Virus
vantec

then get the PcP&C, its got a white sticker.

[The Virus]

Originally posted by lalPOOO
You're probably better off with the ocz ;)

Is that the reason why its cheaper then??

[lalPOOO]

Well atm I can't really say too much, but I don't think I really need to either. Both macci and fugger are using the ocz powersupply, if its good enough for them, its probably good enough for you too ;)

[Karnivore]

Take lalPOOO's advice, Grab the OCZ...

[bh2k]

Karnivore, did I ever tell you that I love you?

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by bh2k
Karnivore, did I ever tell you that I love you?

:eek:

I certainly hope thats Sarcasm, or at least Platonic :stick:

[Dissolved]

Originally posted by lalPOOO
Well atm I can't really say too much, but I don't think I really need to either. Both macci and fugger are using the ocz powersupply, if its good enough for them, its probably good enough for you too ;)


Trust me, he Knows the truth.


GET a OCZ if you want the best PSU (with pots & 5yr warranty) Best Bang for the buck.

[ns_ripper]

Originally posted by Karnivore
:eek:

I certainly hope thats Sarcasm, or at least Platonic :stick:

LOL :D


I would go for the pc power and cooling for sure.

[Soulburner]

One thing I noticed is that the PC P&C has a stronger 12v rail (amps wise)...

[Mongoose420]

yes, pc power and cooling because its got a diffrent color sticker than the POS vantec you had:rolleyes:

[Tony]

The Powerstream is based on a server PSU with added specs by OCZ.It has load/speed controlled fans and uprated output lines.The 520 is actually underated as its nearer a 600W than a 520.The 420 and 470 are nearer 500 etc also.

If your looking for more juice than this we have a unit due out real soon that is even larger with 45A+ on the 12V rail.

You guys ask for it and OCZ will delliver it ;)

[Soulburner]

Originally posted by bigtoe
If your looking for more juice than this we have a unit due out real soon that is even larger with 45A+ on the 12V rail.
Nice :cool:

[blinky]

id go OCZ 520w, those external pots are nice, and it looks a real strong PSU

[Arkangyl]

45a on the 12v line???

holy :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:...


whats next? replacing the 12v line with a 13 or 14v line etc..? save some time for Macci. Fugger and Opp on the PSU mods? :p

[Warden]

I still say the Fortron 530 is the best bang for the buck in a PSU. ABout $90-100 less than the OCZ and most of the big guns here use them or have used them and will tell you that it's a fantastic PSU. Mine runs my A64-3500 at 260 x 10 as well as my 6800 GT at 460/1200, DVD Rom- CD-RW, Sata Drive, etc... It has adjustable rails (although they are inside the case) but I have yet to touvh them and my rails are solid. I've built numerous systems lately and I've used a Fortron "FSP" PSU on all of them.

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-968&depa=0

Warden

[masterofpuppets]

I love my PowerStream520. They are good value and perform well, although the PCP&C is also good. I would go with the OCZ if I were you though.

[Lithan]

Fortron 530
OCZ 520
PCP&C 510
Antec 550

All of them should do fine.

I'd recommend....

Fortron: low price/performance
PCP&C: history of quality/regulation
OCZ: Features
Antec: Higher price/performance than fortron, lower than ocz. But less features than ocz, more than fortron.

I use fortron. I have used antec in the past. No personal history with ocz or PCP&C though (except my 300watt pCP&C in my dell box).

[freecableguy]

PCP&C.....where others OVERATE their PSU PCP&C actually UNDERATES theirs....the 510 is closer to 620W+ with a peak at 650W.

Ask yourself this....would you buy RAM from PCP&C? Then WHY would you buy a powersupply from OCZ? :confused:

[Mongoose420]

afaik PcP&C doesnt mfg there own units either:confused:

[OC_Newbee]

Originally posted by Lithan
Fortron 530
OCZ 520
PCP&C 510
Antec 550

All of them should do fine.

I'd recommend....

Fortron: low price/performance
PCP&C: history of quality/regulation
OCZ: Features
Antec: Higher price/performance than fortron, lower than ocz. But less features than ocz, more than fortron.



You'll probably can't go wrong with either of these.

How loud is the PCP&C 510w PSU? I use to own the turbo-cool 450w and sold it because IMO it is the loudest out of the power supply unit that I've own. At the time I didn't feel like switching out the fan, but yeah mine were pretty loud.

So I would probably go with the OCZ if I ever needed a new PSU.

[chunkylover77]

Originally posted by bigtoe
The Powerstream is based on a server PSU with added specs by OCZ.It has load/speed controlled fans and uprated output lines.The 520 is actually underated as its nearer a 600W than a 520.The 420 and 470 are nearer 500 etc also.

If your looking for more juice than this we have a unit due out real soon that is even larger with 45A+ on the 12V rail.

You guys ask for it and OCZ will delliver it ;)
Bigtoe when is this new PSU coming out?

[LightSpeed]

i used the fortron 550W EPS with a 24-20 pin converter and a 8-4 pin converter on my friends a64 at 2.65 w/6800ultra at 465/1220, and it really is fantastic.

i went for the EPS version because it has the newer spec 24pin atx power adapter which newer mobos use, and it has stronger rails over the fortron 530W. old 20pin PSU's may have problems with newer mobos, like this:

20 pin problems (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjQwLDM=)

so i suggest the 24pin 550W fortron over the 20pin one if u decide to get the fortron..

and if its between these 3(ocz, pcp and fortron) then i suggest that the PCP&C is the best, with a 650W peak load. Or else the Fortron 550W, as i think that one is better than the OCZ, really.

However i think, as u have $300 to burn, go with the PCP&C custom cunfigurator and build ur own. that would be the best.

hope this hepls:)

[The Virus]

Originally posted by bigtoe
The Powerstream is based on a server PSU with added specs by OCZ.It has load/speed controlled fans and uprated output lines.The 520 is actually underated as its nearer a 600W than a 520.The 420 and 470 are nearer 500 etc also.

If your looking for more juice than this we have a unit due out real soon that is even larger with 45A+ on the 12V rail.

You guys ask for it and OCZ will delliver it ;)

Do you think you can send out one of these psu to me so i can try it before i buy??? I will do my personal review and post it here compared to my Enermax 460w. What you say?

TO Lightspeed: According to the link you posted just above here how's it possible for the people who did that review to use a 24pin connecter directly into a 20pin mobo? If you read carefully u will notice this:

"With the adapter in place, and this being the only change to the system and OS, the 3DMark2001 test almost immediately failed and did so repeatedly. Removing the adapter and using the 24-pin power plug, we saw our system once again return to rock solid stability clocked at 255MHz FSB with a 1:1 memory bus ratio".

I don't get it. Don't you have to use the adapter in order to power a 20pin mobo since its impossible to force 24 pins into a 20 pin mobo. lol....im lost.. And oh yeahh.. did i mention they were using the "vantec stealth 520" lol.... No wonder it sucked on my Abit NF7-s and i bet Ocz wont be any better since its the same psu just with a ocz label and adj. pots... Both are rated at 520w-620w peak, both come with 24pin-20 pin adapter. Look at the pics i posted on the first page and u will see what i mean.

[snowwie]

Originally posted by freecableguy
PCP&C.....where others OVERATE their PSU PCP&C actually UNDERATES theirs....the 510 is closer to 620W+ with a peak at 650W.

Ask yourself this....would you buy RAM from PCP&C? Then WHY would you buy a powersupply from OCZ? :confused:

well, while PCP&C specialize in PSUs, OCZ doesn't just specialize in ram

they have kinda expanded into ENTHUSIAST products, even their ram is solely enthusiast, designed for overclocking

does OCZ even have mainstream RAM products? valueOCZ?

That's why the OCZ psus are designed for overclocking, adjustable pots, etc.

I would trust their psu just as I would PCP&C's

that said, I would buy PC P&C, always wanted one

[longshot]

Originally posted by bigtoe
If your looking for more juice than this we have a unit due out real soon that is even larger with 45A+ on the 12V rail.

You guys ask for it and OCZ will delliver it ;)

For god sakes make it modular like the newest antec so we can remove all the damn clutter in our cases!!!!

[longshot]

Originally posted by OC_Newbee
How loud is the PCP&C 510w PSU? I use to own the turbo-cool 450w and sold it because IMO it is the loudest out of the power supply unit that I've own. At the time I didn't feel like switching out the fan, but yeah mine were pretty loud.



One word LOUD!!! thats the only thing i dislike about my 510-DLX is it is damn loud when the fan kicks up in speed.

[chunkylover77]

Originally posted by longshot
For god sakes make it modular like the newest antec so we can remove all the damn clutter in our cases!!!!

I would pay top dollar for that.

[freecableguy]

Originally posted by snowwie
well, while PCP&C specialize in PSUs, OCZ doesn't just specialize in ram

they have kinda expanded into ENTHUSIAST products, even their ram is solely enthusiast, designed for overclocking

does OCZ even have mainstream RAM products? valueOCZ?

That's why the OCZ psus are designed for overclocking, adjustable pots, etc.

I would trust their psu just as I would PCP&C's

that said, I would buy PC P&C, always wanted one

So, PCP&C, which has been making PSU's for how many years? vs. OCZ who started in this market a couple months ago....probably had nothing to do with design and outsources their manufacturing to someone else? I would bet they just paid for production and slap their label on it. And you trust that as much as PCP&C. Suit yourself. Seems farked up to me. Get some PCP&C DDR400 while you're at it. I hear it's awesome!

-Kris

[longshot]

Kris,
These OCZ Units are no joke they have been battle tested by some serious overclockers here at xs.org and pushed harder than 99% of the other people here could possibly push them.

If Macci and Fugger sing the praise to them then that should be more than good enough for others who wont push them as hard as those 2 guys!

[Mongoose420]

ignorance is bliss i guess. It is funny how people will broadly condemn a product they have never used/seen/given a second thought to.

Thats okay, enjoy you $220 or $230 powersupply that sounds like the radiator fan of a '57 buick. I'll hang on to my rock sold silent $120 powersupply that consistantly and steadily overvolts all rails at least .26v:rolleyes:

[spaceman]

PCP&C, without a doubt. :cool: I really don't understand why folks complain about the noise of the fan. Mine doesn't bother me at all. If your ears are THAT sensitive, just swap out the fan. Besides, why overclock your rig, and expect it to be silent? That's like saying a race car is too loud. ;)

[snowwie]

Originally posted by freecableguy
So, PCP&C, which has been making PSU's for how many years? vs. OCZ who started in this market a couple months ago....probably had nothing to do with design and outsources their manufacturing to someone else? I would bet they just paid for production and slap their label on it. And you trust that as much as PCP&C. Suit yourself. Seems farked up to me. Get some PCP&C DDR400 while you're at it. I hear it's awesome!

-Kris

as if it hasn't become apparent enough by now, OCZ has been spending a lot of time researching and developing tools and hardware for overclockers. Of course they are outsourcing the PSUs, they don't specialize in PSUs. But it has become clear they do their homework. They have been in the enthusiast market for much more than a couple months. They are by no means "entering" the PSU market. their clients aren't changing.

[longshot]

Originally posted by spaceman
PCP&C, without a doubt. :cool: I really don't understand why folks complain about the noise of the fan. Mine doesn't bother me at all. If your ears are THAT sensitive, just swap out the fan. Besides, why overclock your rig, and expect it to be silent? That's like saying a race car is too loud. ;)

Yours must have a diffrent fan in yours than mine cause when mine spins up it is LOUD and i mean LOUD it makes me think from the other posts i have read maybee my fan is defective.

[PowerK]

What's wrong with the size of OCZ PowerStream PSU ??

It doesn't fit in Lian Li PC-V1000 case! Look! (http://www.anandtech.com/showimage.html?u=http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/cases/lianli/pcv1000/largepsu.jpg)
EDIT : Doesn't OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU follow ATX standard size ?

[The Virus]

OMG i was hoping i dont get mix opinions. I have 2 days left before i push the buy button and i honestly cant make a choice.

I did some internet research and read alot in forums about pcPower&cooling and i found out that nobody else uses king size capacitors like pcpower and that is the reason why its rated among the best if not The best.....I know ocz psu is new and doesnt have as much as feedback as pcpower but from what ive read so far on internet its one hell of a psu too......It actually beat a 600w Enermax in comparison at some site... I hope i make the right choice by thursday...

[freecableguy]

PCP&C is the right choice. You can buy now and be completely confident in that.

[Techmasta]

Originally posted by snowwie
does OCZ even have mainstream RAM products? valueOCZ?

Yes they do, it's called OCZ Value. http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/memory/OCZ_DDR_PC-3200_Value_Series

:with:

[longshot]

Virus,

If this makes your decision any easier I have both a 510-Dlx and a Powerstream 520wADJ and from using both I say buy the 520wADJ but no matter what you buy feel confident that you wont be making a wrong decision.

LonG

[The Virus]

I think my choice is made. PCpower&cooling is going in my system by next week. 20/20 review sites consider this psu to be the king of the load. The quality of this psu is like no other and its a great future investment. I'm amazed to see the rails so accurate even on a fully loaded overclocked P4 tested on this site...Scrool down and see it for yourself......

http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/reviews/madshrimps/index.html

[longshot]

oh trust me i have seen the reviews the only reason there arent reviews just like that for the OCZ is its still too new.

Like i said i have both and they are both awesome! Good luck on your new system build!

[freecableguy]

It's also been the MaximumPC (if anyone cares) Dream Machine PSU pick for God knows how many years. I have used many power supplies, this one just FEELS like quality. The rails are perfect, I can't get even close to making it hiccup. PCP&C guarantees that it will power any system that you use it with. It come with a 5 year warranty and it is fully customizable from the shop (which is why I am reasonably assured that yes, they do make these and don't outsource to another company). If you want extra amps on one or more rails...just ask for it and it will be done. Want 45A on the 12V rail? Ask.

-Kris

[NoX]

From my personal experience I would buy the OCZ Powerstream. The voltages on the rails are rock stable with a max oscillation of 0.01V under any load and with very hot room temps. Furthermore, since I replaced my old Allied 500W PS with the OCZ unit, my P4 became suddenly Prime stable at 3.75Ghz with 1.55v, while before it couldn't run any benchmark without further increasing the vcore. Above all, all this goodness came for just $120. ;)
I don't agree with Freecableguy prejudices. Why the fact that OCZ is mainly a memory manufacturer should discourage me from buying a power supply from it? I think that overall OCZ had demonstrated to produce high quality memory products and I don't see why the company shouldn't apply the same manufacturing standards when building PS. If Ferrari starts building motorcycles, would u buy them or just ignore them because Ferrari has never produced that product? Before expressing my opinion, I would at least give it a try.

Regards

[chunkylover77]

You could get this one.

Link (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_166&products_id=1735&osCsid=f7cca8912722fe291e86c2f4a672daf5)

[The Virus]

Originally posted by NoX
From my personal experience I would buy the OCZ Powerstream. The voltages on the rails are rock stable with a max oscillation of 0.01V under any load and with very hot room temps. Furthermore, since I replaced my old Allied 500W PS with the OCZ unit, my P4 became suddenly Prime stable at 3.75Ghz with 1.55v, while before it couldn't run any benchmark without further increasing the vcore. Above all, all this goodness came for just $120. ;)
I don't agree with Freecableguy prejudices. Why the fact that OCZ is mainly a memory manufacturer should discourage me from buying a power supply from it? I think that overall OCZ had demonstrated to produce high quality memory products and I don't see why the company shouldn't apply the same manufacturing standards when building PS. If Ferrari starts building motorcycles, would u buy them or just ignore them because Ferrari has never produced that product? Before expressing my opinion, I would at least give it a try.

Regards

I would give the ocz a try but i already know it will suck for my MOBO. Last year i tried the Vantec stealth 520w and my railes were really really bad. My +12 rail was down to 11.67 using a digital mulitimeter while running prime95. This is because it's a 24pin psu and if you use a 24pin to 20pin adapter it will degrade down to a 200w psu. The OCZ psu is the same exact psu like Stealth except it comes with adj. pots and has re-calibrated watts per line.

I think i have a great idea. I will purchase both ocz an pcpower and i will choose which is better and the loser goes back. I think i might just do that.

[The Virus]

Originally posted by chunkylover77
You could get this one.

Link (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_166&products_id=1735&osCsid=f7cca8912722fe291e86c2f4a672daf5)

I just ordered the ocz 520w from Newgg.com for $125.50 bucks.
And PC Power & Cooling 510W ATX-Deluxe from Frozencpu.com for 219 bucks. I can't wait, i may have them both here by Friday. Loser goes back home.

Lets all bet via pay pal which psu will be the winner, lol

My money is on the PCpower but i do hope Ocz winns so i save 95 bucks .

[longshot]

Originally posted by chunkylover77
You could get this one.

Link (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_166&products_id=1735&osCsid=f7cca8912722fe291e86c2f4a672daf5)


Hehe thats the one i got!

[longshot]

Originally posted by The Virus
I would give the ocz a try but i already know it will suck for my MOBO. Last year i tried the Vantec stealth 520w and my railes were really really bad. My +12 rail was down to 11.67 using a digital mulitimeter while running prime95. This is because it's a 24pin psu and if you use a 24pin to 20pin adapter it will degrade down to a 200w psu. The OCZ psu is the same exact psu like Stealth except it comes with adj. pots and has re-calibrated watts per line.

I think i have a great idea. I will purchase both ocz an pcpower and i will choose which is better and the loser goes back. I think i might just do that.

Just so you are aware the OCZ is not made by Vantec nor is it based on the same unit.

I believe the OCZ is made for OCZ to their specifications by Tagan (bigtoe feel free to coment if you like)

[craig588]

Test both of them with a oscilloscope! Thats one of the most important tests almost everyone leaves out.

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by craig588
Test both of them with a oscilloscope! Thats one of the most important tests almost everyone leaves out.


Spot on :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[freecableguy]

$10 says PCP&C is the better PSU...the one you keep. I will PP the money to you if you keep the OCZ one. Now, you could always cheat and keep the OCZ one regardless but then you would be the real loser because the PCP&C unit is the best.

Anyone else wanna play? Bet him $10 he will keep the OCZ? "The Virus" should be up for that. He would get $10 either way. Win-Win. :toast:

[mluckey]

Tagan is reportedly the manufacturer of OCZ PSU. The Tagan PSU's are waaaay cheaper, and if true that they make the OCZ, why not but the Tagan unit? I fthat flips your coolkie.

PC Power and Cooling now make their own, so there isn't a generic version.

Fortron is made by FSP, and they also make MANY others that are less expensive, though they share the same component.

After all this, I still support the FSP units without a hesitation. Numbers mean little if you don't measure your performance by the your maximum wattages, but the absolute minimum supplied at the rated temperature range. Other PSU manufacturers rate theirs by maximum output. That's comparing apples to oranges.

FWIW PC Power and Cooling rate theirs similarly.

[craig588]

Originally posted by Karnivore
Spot on :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

There is a reason I'm not using a PCPNP 510 deluxe PSU right now. The scope reported evil secrets a multimeter could never detect. (It might have only have been mine, thats why I want a few more people to test theirs)

Mine moved up and down 1.25V every .9 milliseconds. The multimeter still showed it as spot on never fluxuating voltages. And it sort of worked fine with my computers except that I got better temps and overclocks with my enermax "851" even though its rails were shown on the multimeter as a little lower, but the scope showed them completely stable.

[Tony]

Originally posted by longshot
Just so you are aware the OCZ is not made by Vantec nor is it based on the same unit.

I believe the OCZ is made for OCZ to their specifications by Tagan (bigtoe feel free to coment if you like)

Its not Tagan

[fareastgq]

hrm, addressing the noise issue of a pcp&c psu, well, I can tell ya, it is quieter than my antec true control 550. The guy that posted that his psu was loud, ship it back and have them fix it man, seriously, I don't even notice my psu noise at all and I'm on watercooling. btw, I only got my psu for 197 ship include, hehe, ordered it when they had 10% off special :P I was gonn have them put external adjust. pots in, but damn, that costs alot. If I had 300 bucks to spend on a psu like u Virus, I would have them do that, as that's what it damn near costed for that. ;) I got this psu cause it bugged me that I didn't have the absolute best psu, it'll prob bug you too if your alrdy wondering about it, hehe.
forgot to note, I have the 510 del.

[The Virus]

Originally posted by mluckey
Tagan is reportedly the manufacturer of OCZ PSU. The Tagan PSU's are waaaay cheaper, and if true that they make the OCZ, why not but the Tagan unit? I fthat flips your coolkie.

PC Power and Cooling now make their own, so there isn't a generic version.

Fortron is made by FSP, and they also make MANY others that are less expensive, though they share the same component.

After all this, I still support the FSP units without a hesitation. Numbers mean little if you don't measure your performance by the your maximum wattages, but the absolute minimum supplied at the rated temperature range. Other PSU manufacturers rate theirs by maximum output. That's comparing apples to oranges.

FWIW PC Power and Cooling rate theirs similarly.

I will not cheat , believe me . Like i said i have 300 bucks to burn so the loser goes back if its the ocz or pcpower. I dont care. I only want the best. I will post winbond pics for both and you can see the diff. yourself and i will also do a manual test by using a digital multimeter...... I can't wait......this is fun.....

[The Virus]

Originally posted by bigtoe
Its not Tagan

lol Longshot. Owned.

Funny, u tried to prove me wrong but it backfired at you...Sigh.. next time just shhhh if u are not 100% sure of something.. lol....peace

[craig588]

Originally posted by fareastgq
hrm, addressing the noise issue of a pcp&c psu, well, I can tell ya, it is quieter than my antec true control 550. The guy that posted that his psu was loud, ship it back and have them fix it man, seriously, I don't even notice my psu noise at all and I'm on watercooling. btw, I only got my psu for 197 ship include, hehe, ordered it when they had 10% off special :P I was gonn have them put external adjust. pots in, but damn, that costs alot. If I had 300 bucks to spend on a psu like u Virus, I would have them do that, as that's what it damn near costed for that. ;) I got this psu cause it bugged me that I didn't have the absolute best psu, it'll prob bug you too if your alrdy wondering about it, hehe.
forgot to note, I have the 510 del.

Test it with a scope! I wanna find out if its just mine or if it affects the whole line.

[longshot]

I said I believe it was I didn't say I was forsure! In any event maybee i should send mine back cause mine is damn loud when i run anything 3D.

And if i was to bet you are probally wrong cause its not made by Vantec either (bigtoe care to comment again?)

Also for the record i wasnt trying to prove you wrong just stating what i believed.

LonG

[aoc007]

Originally posted by craig588
Test it with a scope! I wanna find out if its just mine or if it affects the whole line.

Yeah please test with the oscilloscope.

And the PCP&C can get very noisy when its hotter and under more load as the fan adjusts its self so I plan on getting added cooling for it and maybe making the fan manually adjustable.

[freecableguy]

aoc007 - you sure you can't run that BH-5 1:1 at 245FSB 2-2-2-5? Have you tried 3.2 - 3.4V?

[Shaman]

I'd go for a Fortron unit..Can't beat their price/performance ratio.

[The Virus]

Originally posted by aoc007
Yeah please test with the oscilloscope.

And the PCP&C can get very noisy when its hotter and under more load as the fan adjusts its self so I plan on getting added cooling for it and maybe making the fan manually adjustable.

Rofl u have 5 tornados in your pc and you're complaning about the psu's fan???

[aoc007]

Originally posted by freecableguy
aoc007 - you sure you can't run that BH-5 1:1 at 245FSB 2-2-2-5? Have you tried 3.2 - 3.4V?

Id love to but no vmods :( I was thinking about getting the 939 Lanparty UT and a FX-55 when they come out, hopefully that will track VTT unlike my IC7 and then I can just get a DDR Booster, if I dont get the Athlon at all then I'll send my parts to Hell-Fire and maybe get a Vapo LS.

[Warden]

Well it's true about the ratings. Fortron is known for under rating their PSU's as well. A lot of people have pointed at the fact that Fortron rates their 12v rail at 18A but what they don't understand is that they have two 12v rails and they are each rated at 18a :)

Still the best PSU for under $100 and very likely the best for under $175-200 if you ask me.

Warden

[spaceman]

Yeah, I've never owned a Sparkle/Fortron myself, but they have a great reputation, & come highly recommended. If I wanted to build someone a decent rig on a budget, that'd be in it. :)

[The Virus]

Here they are. Ocz 520 vs PCpowerCooling 510 results.

The rails with OCZ are exactly the same like with Vantec Stealth 520w i rma's last year. The +12 rail is mostly at 11.80 and sometimes it would drop down to 11.78v. Not cool. With PCpower cooling , my +12 rail is for the first time above 12 , even my Enermax couldnt keep it above 12. Its obvious who's the winner is here. And did i mention the popower&cooling feels alot heavier then ocz......I can't believe how heavy it is..probably 2x times more then my enermax.....Amazing............I tested the pc Power with a digital multimeter and there is 0% diff. from idle and Load..amazing...The OCZ was pretty steady too but again the rails read 3.28, 4.96, 11.90. ,,,,,,,,,,PC power read 3.36, 5.13.12.21 using a multimeter...................Anyway......Im not really that surprised....PC power looks and feels like a Monster.


PCPower&cooling

[The Virus]

And this is OCZ .....

[LightSpeed]

knew it was gonna win, how much did the ocz differ when tested with a multimeter?

thanx

[Susquehannock]

If you want the best there is no substitute for
the PCP&C units.

They have a 1% load regulation (not line reg.) where others
have only 5%. Then there's the rated ripple.
Every brand I've seen has the ripple rated at 50mv
where the PCP&C is rated at only 10mv. Furthermore, the
PCP&C output are rated at 50c instead of 25c as
other PSU. Some cheap generic PSU are rated 600w
at 25c but drop below 250w once the unit reaches operating temp.

Couple that dedication to stability with the FIVE year warranty
and you get a lot for your money. We've all seen
the PCP&C 510w comparrison page right?
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/pdf/Turbo-Cool_510_vs.pdf

Also, the PCP&C units allow pot adjustments from
outside the unit. Though they likely wouldn't need it.
My 425 deluxe is more than enough. I honestly don't see any need
for the 510w, unless you are powering a small city of course. ;)

[freecableguy]

The Virus - satisfied now? Send the OCZ back. Keep the PCP&C. I can't believe that you thought that a memory manufacturer was going to make a similar product to PC Power and Cooling. Next time listen to me! :D

[Arkangyl]

FYI those Windbond readings are complete bullsheit.. My generic was 11.6, 4.7, 3.16 with Windbond but a mutlimeter on the rails said 12.1, 5.06, 3.36..

who do you thinks right? the Windbond or the Multimeter?

[aoc007]

Originally posted by The Virus
Here they are. Ocz 520 vs PCpowerCooling 510 results.

The rails with OCZ are exactly the same like with Vantec Stealth 520w i rma's last year. The +12 rail is mostly at 1.80 and sometimes it would drop down to 1.78v. Not cool. With PCpower cooling , my +12 rail is for the first time above 12 , even my Enermax couldnt keep it above 12. Its obvious who's the winner is here. And did i mention the popower&cooling feels alot heavier then ocz......I can't believe how heavy it is..probably 2x times more then my enermax.....Amazing............I tested the pc Power with a digital multimeter and there is 0% diff. from idle and Load..amazing...The OCZ was pretty steady too but again the rails read 3.28, 4.96, 11.90. ,,,,,,,,,,PC power read 3.36, 5.13.12.21 using a multimeter...................Anyway......Im not really that surprised....PC power looks and feels like a Monster.


PCPower&cooling

PLEASE TEST WITH A OSCILLOSCOPE!!

[freecableguy]

FYI those Windbond readings are complete bullsheit..

If A > B and B > C then A > C. Relative differences is all that matters when checking for magnitude differences.

[Arkangyl]

oops :p, just noticed that he did test with a mutlimeter...


I'm really loosing it these days... wth?

[craig588]

Originally posted by aoc007
PLEASE TEST WITH A OSCILLOSCOPE!!

Quoted for importance. You need to test it with a scope!

[Mongoose420]

3.36 5.13 12.21 MM pcp&c
3.34 5.00 12.11 Bios " "


3.28 4.96 11.9 MM OCZ
3.28 4.95 11.8 Bios " "

really quite amazing that given the same board the 5v rail is a full .1v higher than bios for the pcp&c where the ocz is spot on. you really would figure the differnce would be the same, and it was with my nf7 with diffrent powersupplies...

You really must have gotten a bunk ocz power supply or left them at factory settings because i can overvolt all the rails a full .2v at least steady under full load at 247x11 on my a64 1.7vcore and my x800xtpe with full fans/hdd/optical ect.

12.74
3.67
5.24

and it will hold those values under load with less than .01 variation and all rails checked with a MM. Oh well enjoy your pcp&c.:toast:

[The Virus]

I'm really happy right now. I played BF Vietnam for about 1hr now and no blue screen crash. I'm amazed. Now i can use my GT at full settings 440/1200 and Barton at 2.6ghz ..I also noticed that my case fans no longer change speeds at full load.. This is one amazing PSU>>> I LUV IT> Thanks guys....to those who told me to get PC POWER colling.........Anyone living in NYC area ?? I'll sell u the ocz for 15% discount. PM if u interested......peace

Sorry, but what is a OSCILLOSCOPE?? lol , never heard of it..

[Susquehannock]

Yeah, an $800 O-scope is something every amateur modder should have. :rolleyes:
Right up there with a dual stage air compressor and Plasma cutter. :p:


OSCILLOSCOPE =
An electronic instrument that produces an instantaneous trace on the screen of a cathode-ray tube corresponding to oscillations of voltage and current.


http://wearepsls.com/images/Tek_465_Oscilloscope.jpg

Oooo ... here's a PC based O-scope that uses your computer
and monitor for the display. Only $400!! :D

http://www.apogeekits.com/images/pc_oscilloscope_2.jpg

http://www.apogeekits.com/pc_oscilloscope.htm

[aoc007]

Originally posted by Susquehannock
Yeah, an $800 O-scope is something every amateur modder should have. :rolleyes:
Right up there with a dual stage air compressor and Plasma cutter. :p:


OSCILLOSCOPE =
An electronic instrument that produces an instantaneous trace on the screen of a cathode-ray tube corresponding to oscillations of voltage and current.


http://wearepsls.com/images/Tek_465_Oscilloscope.jpg

Oooo ... here's a PC based O-scope that uses your computer
and monitor for the display. Only $400!! :D

http://www.apogeekits.com/images/pc_oscilloscope_2.jpg

http://www.apogeekits.com/pc_oscilloscope.htm

Yes but if he had access to one wouldnt it be nice to see the results?

[Boyne7]

Did you even adjust the pots on the OCZ?????
there is NO way that the ocz couldn't stay above spec. ive had mine running with 3 cdroms, 4 hard drives, 11 fans 4 cathodes and my complete system a64 3200+@2.45ghz, radeon 9800pro, 1gb mushkin level 2 BH-5...... and so on. i find it VERY hard to believe that it couldnt keep above spec at full load.... mine can go far above spec even under full load...

[craig588]

Originally posted by Susquehannock
Yeah, an $800 O-scope is something every amateur modder should have. :rolleyes:
Right up there with a dual stage air compressor and Plasma cutter. :p:



I almost have all 3 of those things, and I havn't spent more than 500$ for all of it. My air compressor is only a single stage unit, I have no idea how you could need 2 air compression stages.

You just need to shop around looking for used stuff. It took me about 6 years to find a reasonably priced O-scope. I spent about 3 years looking for a good air compressor. I got the plasma cutter from a neighbor who broke it, gave it to me and it cost me ~400$ to repair it and I got to keep it. I paid 20$ for the O-scope, and 45$ for the air compressor. If you shop around long enough, you can find anything for your price.

[Karnivore]

Half way decent Oscilloscope can be had well under $100, If you shop wisely, a "Hobby" grade scope can be had under $50.

Call me the sceptic here, but your testing seems lacking at best. How about some pictures? Rails measured at minimum, and maximum on the OCZ, with a shot of your DMM.

Or at least some minimum/maximum rail readings with DMM, and PSU..

Did you try the OCZ and it wasn't capable of running your PC stable?

[Mongoose420]

i think it has more to do with the fact that he wanted the pcp&c to perform better than the ocz. He resisted ocz from the off and so beit. there are at least 3 posts on this forum alone on the ocz unit all posting heavily overvolted rails and fuggers review with a system that will pop a powersupply on boot up. i honestly dont see this thread hurting the powersupplies reputation any in the haphazard way the comparason was done. He's happy with his pcp&c unit, thats really all that matters.

[freecableguy]

In any case the PCP&C vs. OCZ weight test was undeniable. Quality can OFTEN be felt in the weight and the OCZ feels cheap when held in the right hand while the PCP&C 510 is held in the right.

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by freecableguy
In any case the PCP&C vs. OCZ weight test was undeniable. Quality can OFTEN be felt in the weight and the OCZ feels cheap when held in the right hand while the PCP&C 510 is held in the right.

beside the very scientific method of holding the two supplies in one hand :confused: , which I'm pretty sure you meant one in each... Exactly what is the weight of these supplies?

Using Google, I found one weight listed for the OCZ, six pounds.. Nothing on the PCP&C though..

How about it Virus? you have the weights on the shipping labels? or maybe some kind of scale so we can get an idea just what the weight difference is?

[freecableguy]

PCP&C > OCZ....other than that, a bathroom scale would work...

[Mongoose420]

LMAO, this thread is gett'n rather funny. Pretty soon i feel like the pcp&c police will block my IP for being a heretic.

[Tony]

Guys

First off I need to set the record straight here on a few Items.

The powerstream is made by the same manufacturer who makes the Tagan, that doesn't mean Tagan make it though.If you look at ANY review where they open up the PSU you will see who makes em..so go LOOK :P

Next...NO ONE from OCZ has said the Powerstream is better than PC Power and Cooling ... if you want to spend $200+ on a PSU then fine, go do it... please don't diss the powerstream though, its the best PSU on the market for the price, as the PC P+C is for its price.

We looked at adding the same features on a PSU to compete with PC P+C and it would have just cost to much, and been WAY to noisey...so we went with the Powerstream you see and can buy now. We are constantly looking to upgrade specs etc but we have to remain competetive.We are finalising specs on a 600W SUSTAINED model and looking at building a 700W+ model also....the 600W will have a peak output closer to 750W and the 700 model will probably peak at close to 850 or higher.Remember the competition mostly quotes peak and not sustained...so look careful on the box.

Please also remeber OCZ back the powerstream with a 5 yr warranty..3 yrs unlimited and 2 yrs limited there after...that alone is pretty awesome.

Final note to all those who measure voltages with the bios monitor IC...don't..it is NOT accurate.Use a calibrated multimeter or scope.I have seen bios reporting 3.1V on the 3.3V line and im pumping 3.5V on the 3.3V line on the board....

[aoc007]

Originally posted by bigtoe
Guys

First off I need to set the record straight here on a few Items.

The powerstream is made by the same manufacturer who makes the Tagan, that doesn't mean Tagan make it though.If you look at ANY review where they open up the PSU you will see who makes em..so go LOOK :P

Next...NO ONE from OCZ has said the Powerstream is better than PC Power and Cooling ... if you want to spend $200+ on a PSU then fine, go do it... please don't diss the powerstream though, its the best PSU on the market for the price, as the PC P+C is for its price.

We looked at adding the same features on a PSU to compete with PC P+C and it would have just cost to much, and been WAY to noisey...so we went with the Powerstream you see and can buy now. We are constantly looking to upgrade specs etc but we have to remain competetive.We are finalising specs on a 600W SUSTAINED model and looking at building a 700W+ model also....the 600W will have a peak output closer to 750W and the 700 model will probably peak at close to 850 or higher.Remember the competition mostly quotes peak and not sustained...so look careful on the box.

Please also remeber OCZ back the powerstream with a 5 yr warranty..3 yrs unlimited and 2 yrs limited there after...that alone is pretty awesome.

Final note to all those who measure voltages with the bios monitor IC...don't..it is NOT accurate.Use a calibrated multimeter or scope.I have seen bios reporting 3.1V on the 3.3V line and im pumping 3.5V on the 3.3V line on the board....

I agree OCZ is making a great product with the powerstream, and 850 would be amazing :eek: whats the peak of the PC P&C 510w? I think they said 750? If OCZ makes a 850w then they may very well take the crown from PC P&C.

[enzoR]

no cuz pcp&c only has 10mv ripple....

[mluckey]

aoc007,

It is very difficult to compare the FSP and PC Power and Cooling (PC P&P) peak power since they are rated very differently.

One is very brief peak at ideal temps, the other is peak hold at maximum temperatures, and for a far longer duration.

Also, I see people that are laughing about the weight comparison. It's not the most important feature, but it does matter. Most Audiophiles can explain it better, but in a nutshell, there are distinct advantages to massive heatsinks, and overall mass. One is the resistance to rapid ftemperature fluctuations. Another is that the resonant frequencies are higher in the spectrum. That's not saying that putting a brick in the PSU case is worthwhile, because it's not, but adding a more massive HS is beneficial regardless of the temperatures of operation, and/or cooling used. Of course, the thermodynamics gurus out there can paint a better picture, because it's not so terribly simple as I paint it.

[Karnivore]

Originally posted by mluckey
Also, I see people that are laughing about the weight comparison.

Funny how some interpret words..

I never found the weight comparison funny, I DID find the mistake, referencing two right hands mildly amusing, as well as the scientific method of comparison. Asking for actual weight differences instead of guessing, or estimation, is hardly laughing at it.
The basis for my NOT recommending the PCP&C has barely been touched upon. The general population should have more facts soon.

[RoydRage]

Guys,

Below is a section of my article on the Power Supply. I had a Prototype PC Power & Cooling 510 for this system 2 1/2 years ago. I was also the first to have the external pots...

We had done full testing on this & other units in my friends electronic lab, *WITH* an osilliscope.

It's the same now as then, the performance & built quality of the PC Power units is without comarision...

I'll say as I've always said... If you want the best, spend the Money, and get the 510. It's as simple as that.

Best Regards,

Royd.

Parts Selection

Power Supply:
Starting at the beginning, the first and most important choice you can make is the power supply unit. Anything you do after that means nothing if you have an unstable or poor PSU. I had used Enermax, and the popular TTGI units, and had good success with each. But for this, my ultimate build, I wanted something of even higher quality. I contacted Mick Keily, a tech at PC Power & Cooling, Inc. This is a company that is more than happy to spend the time with you, and make sure you're getting exactly what you need. I originally asked him about their 600 watt unit, after sending him a profile of the project he assured me that their 475 watt unit would be more than enough to handle my needs and would save me a lot of money. Now that's putting the customer first! As we got to know each other and he became more familiar with what I wanted to accomplish, he told me that they had a prototype unit coming out called the Turbo Cool 510. This PSU and the 475w unit had higher current capability on the 12v line which he felt I would need with all my drives. The unit does not come with a switch, but at my request they customized one for me! They really do offer many options to tailor their units to each customers needs.

Upon getting the unit I immediately opened it, and having a pretty strong electronics background from being a Hi-Fi nut for years I instantly recognized that the build quality and parts selection were superior to other brands. This unit also employs power conditioning, and voltage fluctuation is noticeably less than with other unit's I have tested. It also has separate pots for each line, and voltages were 12.1V on the +12V line, 3.4V on the 3.3+ line, and 5.1v on the +5V line out of the box! Yes this unit is expensive, but the old adage holds true. You get what you pay for.

[Spec3]

Originally posted by freecableguy
In any case the PCP&C vs. OCZ weight test was undeniable. Quality can OFTEN be felt in the weight and the OCZ feels cheap when held in the right hand while the PCP&C 510 is held in the right.

HAHAHAHA are you joking? My 420W OCZ unit is about double the weight of my 651W Enermax PSU. I don't think your going to try and tell us the Enermax is a crappy unit as well are you? I love my enermax a whole lot but with adjustable rails the OCZ just tooks its place. So unless the PC P&C is using lead in there somewhere your nuts man.

:toast:

[aoc007]

Ah yes I didnt think about the other things that affect a powersupply, I dont really know much about them although I should learn. But even though the PC P&C delivers the stabilest voltages wouldnt this new OCZ 850w PSU deliver more power?

The only thing I really have to get on PC P&Cs case about is that the Turbo-Cool does get very noisy and hot, with all those high end components I guess it would, but still, it should be quieter and I disagree with them when they say the extra fans in other powersupplys dont help, Im going to try modding mine with and extra fan/fans and see if I can make that auto controlled 80mm on the back manually controlled.

[freecableguy]

Spec3 - have you held a PCP&C 510 or are just just SPECulating?

[Susquehannock]

Nice post RoydRage. :thup:

Wouldn't this 425 deluxe be of the same build quality as the
510w. Just with lower max amp ratings?

[Susquehannock]

Originally posted by aoc007
Ah yes I didnt think about the other things that affect a powersupply, I dont really know much about them although I should learn. But even though the PC P&C delivers power wouldnt this new OCZ 850w PSU deliver more power?

The only thing I really have to get on PC P&Cs case about is that the Turbo-Cool does get very noisy and hot, with all those high end components I guess it would, but still, it should be quieter and I disagree with them when they say the extra fans in other powersupplys dont help, Im going to try modding mine with and extra fan/fans and see if I can make that auto controlled 80mm on the back manually controlled.


Not necessarily. Lets not forget that stability is more
important than high amp/watt specs. The OCZ 850w may be able
to put out more total amps. But what if the the PCP&C 510 holds
a tighter range at the same load?
Also, at what temp is that 850w OCZ rated?
it may be able to put out 850w at 25c, but drop significantly
at 50c. Many cheap generic 550w PSU put out 550w at
25c but drop over 50% at 50c.

About the fans ...

This issue came up in one of our gaming sessions
a few weeks back.
A friend of mine who works as an HVAC tech explained it to
me this way.
Let's say for instance you have two 100cfm intake fans
and one 100cfm exhaust fan in your case. Will the cfm rating of
the single exhaust be automatically doubled because you
have doubled the intake? Not likely. More likely you'll create
more turbulance below the exhaust fan because the intakes
are trying to push out more air than the single exhaust is capable of.
This is all assuming your case is sealed tight of course. :)

[Spec3]

Originally posted by freecableguy
Spec3 - have you held a PCP&C 510 or are just just SPECulating?

Hey bud I'm not bashing the PC P&C unit because I know the thing is a beast. I'm just saying you can't say the OCZ unit is a flake because you think it doesn't weigh as much as the PC P&C one.

If you want to spend your money on a $200 PSU go right ahead.

[aoc007]

Originally posted by Susquehannock
Not necessarily. Lets not forget that stability is more
important than high amp/watt specs. The OCZ 850w may be able
to put out more total amps. But what if the the PCP&C 510 holds
a tighter range at the same load?
Also, at what temp is that 850w OCZ rated?
it may be able to put out 850w at 25c, but drop significantly
at 50c. Many cheap generic 550w PSU put out 550w at
25c but drop over 50% at 50c.

About the fans ...

This issue came up in one of our gaming sessions
a few weeks back.
A friend of mine who works as an HVAC tech explained it to
me this way.
Let's say for instance you have two 100cfm intake fans
and one 100cfm exhaust fan in your case. Will the cfm rating of
the single exhaust be automatically doubled because you
have doubled the intake? Not likely. More likely you'll create
more turbulance below the exhaust fan because the intakes
are trying to push out more air than the single exhaust is capable of.
This is all assuming your case is sealed tight of course. :)

Im sure the PC P&C will have tighter ranges than the new OCZ but the OCZ will probably be tight enough, and Im sure they wont overrate their powersupply like most manufacturers (they didnt with the powerstream) so maybe the new OCZ would be better for those of us running dual processors with lots of fans and drives? This would only be for a few people that need the higher load capacity, for everyone else (myself included) the PC P&C is still the best, I'm sure I wont need a new powersupply for many years now that I have my Turbo-Cool.

I agree with you exhaust should be > or = to intake, but I want to find some way to make this psu quieter!

[RoydRage]

Originally posted by Susquehannock
Nice post RoydRage. :thup:

Wouldn't this 425 deluxe be of the same build quality as the
510w. Just with lower max amp ratings?

Susquehannock,

Thx... Absolutely... All their units are built with the same quality of components, and workmanship. The 510 is going to have the beefier parts to accomodate the higher rating obviously.

People have written on this thread that If you want to spend another $80 or so on a PSU go ahead but they think that other units are better for the money....

I disagree! Look at it this way... You buy video cards, and motherboards, and CPU's Constantly! You change RAM, etc, etc.

You usually use the same PSU, while changing all these componants right? So why not spend a little more, and get the best one you can... It's only going to make all these other components work better!

I think it's money well spent.

Best,

RoydRage

[TysonM]

In a nutshell, both powersupplies rock and everyone gets to decide which one they want to buy.

No need at all for any of that superior/inferior dichotomy.

[freecableguy]

-1, blue team, use of needless word like "dichotomy"

[The Virus]

Originally posted by The Virus


That is exactly why i choose PCpower&cooling, its a long term investment. I doubt if i would need anything more powerfull then this psu considering all future cpu's, gpu's , etc will operate with much less power and low volts. I also want to point out that i cant even hear the fan from back of the case. This is because im using 6 total case fans and one of them is Thermaltake smartfan running at full blast 75.70cfm at 48db....honestly,,it doesent bother me one bit....im so used to it...i dont even notice the noise anymore...... I dont know why some people in here are being girlyboys complaning about the noise.........damn, isn't this "EXTREME forums""" if i was the moderator here i'd ban all cry babies , lol.....j/k.......anyway,,,im totally satisfied with this psu.

[saaya]

Originally posted by The Virus
I doubt if i would need anything more powerfull then this psu considering all future cpu's, gpu's , etc will operate with much less power what makes you think future cpus and gpus will consume less power?

[The Virus]

Originally posted by saaya
what makes you think future cpus and gpus will consume less power?

Why not? Technology, architecture changes fast. I gurantee you that the new generation gpu's from ATI and Nvidia will consume less power then the current 6800 ultra. Time will tell.

[Susquehannock]

Many newer technologies are coming fourth that will require
less power.

MRAM (Magnetic Random Access Memory) for instance requires
less power because it uses magnetism instead of electrical power
to store data.

Can you say INSTANT boot up?! :rocker:

:2cents:

[computerpro3]

Originally posted by Spec3
HAHAHAHA are you joking? My 420W OCZ unit is about double the weight of my 651W Enermax PSU. I don't think your going to try and tell us the Enermax is a crappy unit as well are you? I love my enermax a whole lot but with adjustable rails the OCZ just tooks its place. So unless the PC P&C is using lead in there somewhere your nuts man.

:toast:

The ocz is a tagan unit. Tagan > enermax. I have a turbocool 510 deluxe and I can tell you right now it probably weighs 7-10 pounds. I am not exaggerating. My friends could not believe how heavy it was. Especialy when compared to my antec 430 which was heavier than anything they had felt before. The 510 delux absolutley killse your enermax unit as well as your ocz. Period.

[aoc007]

Originally posted by Susquehannock
Many newer technologies are coming fourth that will require
less power.

MRAM (Magnetic Random Access Memory) for instance requires
less power because it uses magnetism instead of electrical power
to store data.

Can you say INSTANT boot up?! :rocker:

:2cents:

Have you heard when this will be released? Ive read about MRAM before and it sounds awesome.

[freecableguy]

The 510 delux absolutley killse your enermax unit as well as your ocz. Period.

Boyah! I'm with this boy.

[PanaBob]

Ok for under $100 I got these choices:

E-POWER "Tagan" Series 480W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-101-509&depa=0) $80

OCZ Powerstream 420W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-150&depa=0) $85

Fortron 530W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-968&depa=0) $75

ZIPPY 460W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-707&depa=0) $99

$150 PSUs are out of my league :rolleyes:
I'm thinking the OCZ would be the best choice? External pots are a plus as well

[LightSpeed]

get that fortron 530W out of there, and put the fortron 550W EPS in, and a 24 - 20 pin adapter.

id say that would be the best within your range. u can adjust the pots too, but hafta open the psu.

[ronnie0738]

PCPC is a keeper. Used mine for 3 yrs, no problems. :)

[Tony]

Ok for under $100 I got these choices:

E-POWER "Tagan" Series 480W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-101-509&depa=0) $80

OCZ Powerstream 420W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-150&depa=0) $85

Fortron 530W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-968&depa=0) $75

ZIPPY 460W (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-103-707&depa=0) $99

$150 PSUs are out of my league :rolleyes:
I'm thinking the OCZ would be the best choice? External pots are a plus as well

3 of these PSU's are all made by the same company...can you guess the 3?

[aoc007]

I'm guessing all except the Fortron :rolleyes:

[saaya]

Why not? Technology, architecture changes fast. I gurantee you that the new generation gpu's from ATI and Nvidia will consume less power then the current 6800 ultra. Time will tell.

you guarantee that? LOL :lol:
the next videocards and cpus will consume AT LEAST as much energy as current videocards and cpus.


Many newer technologies are coming fourth that will require
less power.

MRAM (Magnetic Random Access Memory) for instance requires
less power because it uses magnetism instead of electrical power
to store data.

Can you say INSTANT boot up?! :rocker:

:2cents:

system memory consumes around 10-20W in a system nowadays, thats less than 10% of the system power consumption, so lets say that new memory consumes half of the energy or less... doesnt matter at all... :P

and about the psus... i think you guys should listen to the people who tried all of them or at least some of them.

[Susquehannock]

>>>>>>>>>


system memory consumes around 10-20W in a system nowadays, thats less than 10% of the system power consumption, so lets say that new memory consumes half of the energy or less... doesnt matter at all... :P

>>>>>>>>

Very true. :)

My only intention was to present a contrary view to the assertion
that all newer PC tech. would require more power.

[fareastgq]

hrm, I haven't read this thread in a while, to the guy that asked for osili testing, don't have one, hehe. Really guys, the pcpc units and the ocz units are very nice, if you wanna go all out, get a pcpc, if you want to spend a bit less money, go for the ocz, that's not a diss to the ocz unit, as it's an excellent unit, NO one who has had that unit and has ran it has said anything bad about it, real users, I think that says somthing for the credit, everyone alrdy knows pcpc is the best atm and they still hold true to that. Both units come with excellent warranties and options.

p.s. told ya the 510 unit was quiet huh Virus? hehe.

[aoc007]

hrm, I haven't read this thread in a while, to the guy that asked for osili testing, don't have one, hehe. Really guys, the pcpc units and the ocz units are very nice, if you wanna go all out, get a pcpc, if you want to spend a bit less money, go for the ocz, that's not a diss to the ocz unit, as it's an excellent unit, NO one who has had that unit and has ran it has said anything bad about it, real users, I think that says somthing for the credit, everyone alrdy knows pcpc is the best atm and they still hold true to that. Both units come with excellent warranties and options.

p.s. told ya the 510 unit was quiet huh Virus? hehe.

Yeah, really they run damn hot I'm trying to figure out a way to cool mine better.

[computerpro3]

3 of these PSU's are all made by the same company...can you guess the 3?

They are? I thought tagan was tagan, the ocz was tagan, the fortron was FSP group, and the zippy was zippy/emacs...am I wrong?

[PanaBob]

I know this thread is a little stale now, but I got convinced and got the PCP&C 510W


I need a psu that can hold a huge amount of load.

I hooked up my 320Wat TEC that pulls around 21A at 12.5v w/ my A64 3200+ at 2.6Ghz and the 12v rail moves by .01v under load. Guess it really is worth the $200 bones. tested with meter of course

:banana4: :banana4:

[aoc007]

I know this thread is a little stale now, but I got convinced and got the PCP&C 510W



I hooked up my 320Wat TEC that pulls around 21A at 12.5v w/ my A64 3200+ at 2.6Ghz and the 12v rail moves by .01v under load. Guess it really is worth the $200 bones. tested with meter of course

:banana4: :banana4:

Can you tell us your full system specs? I was thinking of maybe one day hooking up a TEC to my PCP&C.

[goreblast]

how many amps would you need on the 5V line to power 10 Hard drives, 2 Optical Drives - also got 9800XT, 3 fans.

Just tried it - got Antec Truecontrol 550 - with 6 hard drives running- added in 2 more and system became very unstable and locked up many times - back to 6. Just have to put them in a different PC.

[Craig]

The one thing I think PCP&C could learn from the OCZ PSU is to put the pots on the rear of the PSU so you can change them with ease. The 510's are on the top, which is a pain to get to, no adjusting it on the fly.

But once you have your settings the way you want them they are forever stable.

I own a PCP&C Delux 510 and it's a great PSU. But in the future I may well try the OCZ 520, I like the fact of having the posts in back and the lower noise rating.

[computerpro3]

and decreased power rating. Why would you downgrade psu's when you have the best normal consumer one (I know some jackass is going to say something about a $500 zippy or something, puh-leez)?

[BALDY]

I agree, why would want to downgrade your power supply to a lesser unit? PC Power and Cooling is rated the #1 power supply period. It also comes with a five year warranty to boot. I have two pc power and cooling power supplies one in each system and for several years now I had not experienced any problems with the psu’s.

Since then, I have changed many components in my system but the only pieces of hardware that I haven’t changed are my power supplies. Many of my friends thought I was crazy to spend so much on a psu but they had all replaced their psu since then, some more then once. When they finally purchased a pc power and company power supply, all three of them couldn’t believe how a lot of their problems went away.

They were all able to get higher overclocks and were also stable running prime95 at higher overclocks. They all had some of the psu mentioned in this forum but they all agreed that a good psu makes all the difference. I’m not bashing other power supply companies, that’s why I didn’t mention them by name.

Look at the comparison HERE (http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pdf/insidestory.pdf)

Speaking about the pc power and cooling 510

Despite the jokes.........To be honest.........I took a good look at it's circuit and I MUST confess that it's one of the BEST PSU out there.......VERY well sophisticated - very well designed - GOOD components on it :banana:happens all the time - as for the one that came in my hands ) - and VERY intelligent design too......All I have to say about it is that this PSU rocks big time......I wish I have a 700 watts unit of it if ever made...... ;) :banana:

Purchase what you like, whatever works for you is your choice. I'm just happy with what I have.

[BALDY]

There is a reason I'm not using a PCPNP 510 deluxe PSU right now. The scope reported evil secrets a multimeter could never detect. (It might have only have been mine, thats why I want a few more people to test theirs)

Mine moved up and down 1.25V every .9 milliseconds. The multimeter still showed it as spot on never fluxuating voltages. And it sort of worked fine with my computers except that I got better temps and overclocks with my enermax "851" even though its rails were shown on the multimeter as a little lower, but the scope showed them completely stable.


I actually emailed PC Power and Cooling about this very same issue and here is their reply:

Dan:

We run into this sort of unintentional misinformation once in a while. It is the result of a little knowledge put forth without having all of the facts straight!

First of all lets reiteriate the definition of Output Ripple and Noise.
Output Ripple and Noise (sometimes referred to as PARD or "Periodic and Random Deviations") can be defined as unwanted variations in the output voltage of a power supply. In switching power supplies this output noise is seen as a series of pulses with a high frequency content and is therefore measured as a peak value (i.e. specified as "peak-to-peak"). In the case of the 510 series -- 120mv maximum.

How do you test for Output Ripple and Noise? To do this you must use a 10 Hz to 25 MHz bandwidth oscilloscope. The ATX 12V version 2.0 power supply guide suggests a range of 10 Hz to 20 MHz. Measurements taken by a scope set at higher frequencies (i.e. 300 MHz) may produce significantly different results due to noise coupling on to the probe from sources other than the power supply***.

How do you setup and interpret the results from the scope? By ATX12V ver 1.3 thru 2.0 definition** the Output Ripple/Noise shall be checked with a 10 Hz to 20 MHz bandwidth oscilloscope. Outputs are to be bypassed at the connector with a 0.1uF ceramic disk capacitor and a 10uF electrolytic capacitor to simulate system loading. When this is not done according to specifications then your results will be off by, at least, a factor of six!
When the typical 510 power supply is correctly tested the results will similar to the following:

http://www.amdmb.com/image.php?IMGURL=http://www.amdmb.com/images/psuroundup
/FinalSumm_table_big.jpg

PCPC has been in the power supply business for over 20 years and provides supplies to AMD, Alienware, Intel, Sun Microsystems plus numerous other industry icons. If we did not provide one of the very best power supplies available then Intel would not use our supplies for Chipset and CPU margin testing worldwide, nor would Alienware use our 510 in there state-of-the-art dual processor dual video ALX system. Do we build the perfect supply? Of course not! However, we do have a 5 warranty (the 425 & 510 series) to cover problems that occasionally occur due to shipping, manufacturing and normal customer use. If a customer believes he has a problem with a supply, all they need do is contact us for an RMA and we will check, repair or replace it.

Please feel free to pass this along.

Regards,


Larry W. Aldridge
PC Power & Cooling, Inc.


** Intel ATX12V ver2.0 Power Supply Design Guide page 19 Section 3.2.6.

*** Martek Power Abbott, Inc
Los Angeles, CA.
http://abbottelectronics.com/engineer/ripple.htm

Intel Corp.
Santa Clara, CA.
ATX12V v2.0 P/S design Guide

************************************************** ********

This is very convincing to me. However you guys are free to take whatever you want from this as I was given the permission to pass this on.

I would like to thank Larry W. Aldridge from PC Power & Cooling, Inc. for getting this information to me quickly.

[masterofpuppets]

Good thing about PCP&C: If it blows (which is rare) it doesnt take your whole damn rig with it.

[enzoR]

Good thing about PCP&C: If it blows (which is rare) it doesnt take your whole damn rig with it.

U can never guarantee that.... :(

[computerpro3]

I actually emailed PC Power and Cooling about this very same issue and here is their reply:

Dan:

We run into this sort of unintentional misinformation once in a while. It is the result of a little knowledge put forth without having all of the facts straight!

First of all lets reiteriate the definition of Output Ripple and Noise.
Output Ripple and Noise (sometimes referred to as PARD or "Periodic and Random Deviations") can be defined as unwanted variations in the output voltage of a power supply. In switching power supplies this output noise is seen as a series of pulses with a high frequency content and is therefore measured as a peak value (i.e. specified as "peak-to-peak"). In the case of the 510 series -- 120mv maximum.

How do you test for Output Ripple and Noise? To do this you must use a 10 Hz to 25 MHz bandwidth oscilloscope. The ATX 12V version 2.0 power supply guide suggests a range of 10 Hz to 20 MHz. Measurements taken by a scope set at higher frequencies (i.e. 300 MHz) may produce significantly different results due to noise coupling on to the probe from sources other than the power supply***.

How do you setup and interpret the results from the scope? By ATX12V ver 1.3 thru 2.0 definition** the Output Ripple/Noise shall be checked with a 10 Hz to 20 MHz bandwidth oscilloscope. Outputs are to be bypassed at the connector with a 0.1uF ceramic disk capacitor and a 10uF electrolytic capacitor to simulate system loading. When this is not done according to specifications then your results will be off by, at least, a factor of six!
When the typical 510 power supply is correctly tested the results will similar to the following:

http://www.amdmb.com/image.php?IMGURL=http://www.amdmb.com/images/psuroundup
/FinalSumm_table_big.jpg

PCPC has been in the power supply business for over 20 years and provides supplies to AMD, Alienware, Intel, Sun Microsystems plus numerous other industry icons. If we did not provide one of the very best power supplies available then Intel would not use our supplies for Chipset and CPU margin testing worldwide, nor would Alienware use our 510 in there state-of-the-art dual processor dual video ALX system. Do we build the perfect supply? Of course not! However, we do have a 5 warranty (the 425 & 510 series) to cover problems that occasionally occur due to shipping, manufacturing and normal customer use. If a customer believes he has a problem with a supply, all they need do is contact us for an RMA and we will check, repair or replace it.

Please feel free to pass this along.

Regards,


Larry W. Aldridge
PC Power & Cooling, Inc.


** Intel ATX12V ver2.0 Power Supply Design Guide page 19 Section 3.2.6.

*** Martek Power Abbott, Inc
Los Angeles, CA.
http://abbottelectronics.com/engineer/ripple.htm

Intel Corp.
Santa Clara, CA.
ATX12V v2.0 P/S design Guide

************************************************** ********

This is very convincing to me. However you guys are free to take whatever you want from this as I was given the permission to pass this on.

I would like to thank Larry W. Aldridge from PC Power & Cooling, Inc. for getting this information to me quickly.


See this is why pcp&c rocks so much...you think Antec woulda responded like that? I think not, well, not unless it was in Japanese and sent from a .tw address with automated reply label on the top....

[billycat]

Not to be picky but craig888 did say that the noise happnes every .9 ms which is like 1.1 kHz.. I would think that this WOULD be in the noise band of the PSU. His may be a one off, but it does seem like PSU can be a potential cultprit in this case. There can be a "down mixed" image of a noise at a higher frequency but at 1V+ I dont really think that is the case.


I actually emailed PC Power and Cooling about this very same issue and here is their reply:

Dan:

We run into this sort of unintentional misinformation once in a while. It is the result of a little knowledge put forth without having all of the facts straight!

First of all lets reiteriate the definition of Output Ripple and Noise.
Output Ripple and Noise (sometimes referred to as PARD or "Periodic and Random Deviations") can be defined as unwanted variations in the output voltage of a power supply. In switching power supplies this output noise is seen as a series of pulses with a high frequency content and is therefore measured as a peak value (i.e. specified as "peak-to-peak"). In the case of the 510 series -- 120mv maximum.

How do you test for Output Ripple and Noise? To do this you must use a 10 Hz to 25 MHz bandwidth oscilloscope. The ATX 12V version 2.0 power supply guide suggests a range of 10 Hz to 20 MHz. Measurements taken by a scope set at higher frequencies (i.e. 300 MHz) may produce significantly different results due to noise coupling on to the probe from sources other than the power supply***.

How do you setup and interpret the results from the scope? By ATX12V ver 1.3 thru 2.0 definition** the Output Ripple/Noise shall be checked with a 10 Hz to 20 MHz bandwidth oscilloscope. Outputs are to be bypassed at the connector with a 0.1uF ceramic disk capacitor and a 10uF electrolytic capacitor to simulate system loading. When this is not done according to specifications then your results will be off by, at least, a factor of six!
When the typical 510 power supply is correctly tested the results will similar to the following:

http://www.amdmb.com/image.php?IMGURL=http://www.amdmb.com/images/psuroundup
/FinalSumm_table_big.jpg

PCPC has been in the power supply business for over 20 years and provides supplies to AMD, Alienware, Intel, Sun Microsystems plus numerous other industry icons. If we did not provide one of the very best power supplies available then Intel would not use our supplies for Chipset and CPU margin testing worldwide, nor would Alienware use our 510 in there state-of-the-art dual processor dual video ALX system. Do we build the perfect supply? Of course not! However, we do have a 5 warranty (the 425 & 510 series) to cover problems that occasionally occur due to shipping, manufacturing and normal customer use. If a customer believes he has a problem with a supply, all they need do is contact us for an RMA and we will check, repair or replace it.

Please feel free to pass this along.

Regards,


Larry W. Aldridge
PC Power & Cooling, Inc.


** Intel ATX12V ver2.0 Power Supply Design Guide page 19 Section 3.2.6.

*** Martek Power Abbott, Inc
Los Angeles, CA.
http://abbottelectronics.com/engineer/ripple.htm

Intel Corp.
Santa Clara, CA.
ATX12V v2.0 P/S design Guide

************************************************** ********

This is very convincing to me. However you guys are free to take whatever you want from this as I was given the permission to pass this on.

I would like to thank Larry W. Aldridge from PC Power & Cooling, Inc. for getting this information to me quickly.

[aoc007]

Not to be picky but craig888 did say that the noise happnes every .9 ms which is like 1.1 kHz.. I would think that this WOULD be in the noise band of the PSU. His may be a one off, but it does seem like PSU can be a potential cultprit in this case. There can be a "down mixed" image of a noise at a higher frequency but at 1V+ I dont really think that is the case.

I dont think your being picky at all, with regards to a $200+ psu thats supposed to be the best on the market we have a right to be picky, I hope this gets resolved sometime and either the tests done were incorrect or pcp&c has some design changes to make...

btw welcome to xs :toast:

[Susquehannock]

Good thing about PCP&C: If it blows (which is rare) it doesnt take your whole damn rig with it.


U can never guarantee that.... :(

True ... however, some cheap PSU don't even have
overvoltage/overcurrent protection. If the unit fails they just pass the
power spikes along to the rest of the system. :(