What do you think of this pump?

[freecableguy]

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/products/water_pump/velocity.html

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/images/velocity_chart.jpg


Model: Blueline Velocity T2
In: MPT 3/4"
Out: MPT 3/4"
Max Total Head (FT): 18
Max Discharge (GPH) @ 0ft: 700
Input (w): 98
Length(in): 7.25
Width(in): 4.25
Height(in): 5

-kris

EDIT: Mistype for Total Head...corrected from 28 to 18.

[The_Dark_Hacker]

nice pump. quite powerful. i would get one if i were you. by the way either the link doesnt work or the server is down.

[freecableguy]

Updated to new link. I think I will get one...a little expensive at $145 but they obviously can run with the big boys...look at those dimensions thought! Small! Great color too...

[The_Dark_Hacker]

go for it. i have a felling it will be worth it. i am guessing you were being sarcastic when you said small because it really is quite big compared to normal pumps. as for the color i would have to have a black one but everyone has there own tastes.
:banana: :banana: :banana: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[freecableguy]

Well...small compared to other pumps in it's class. Really I meant that I would be able to mount it in the same place as my current Ehiem 1250. I like the blue though because it will match my Swiftech TEC WB well.

Just for comparision....my Eheim 1250 has a maximum pump head of 6' 7"....meaning that, well, lets say I had 5' of head loss in my system (giving very bad flow rates!) that the MINIMUM flow I will get with this pump will be 10 GPM! WOW!!!!1111

[The_Dark_Hacker]

also what kind of pump do you have now :confused: :confused: :confused: sorry we posted at the some time question aswered

[freecableguy]

BTW, ordering now...should be here Tuesday.

Update: Done. Looking forward to this. I have new 1/2" ID (3/4" OD) Tygon tubing and my 3/4" FPT x 1/2" HB adapters (black) ready to go. This is going to be one sweet setup. I HATE rebuilding everything though. Oh well. Between this and a couple of addition fans on my Thermochill HE120.2 (pulling....right now I am pushing only) I should see some REAL nice temps.

[The_Dark_Hacker]

i wonder how quiet it REALLY is. report back to me when you get it. i am also in the market for a new pump but i want to keep my system quiet. i was looking at the laing d4 pump which the new ones are quite but now i may change my mind :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[freecableguy]

You bet. I should have results Tuesday night. Right now I need to find somekind of mounting sound isolator for this...maybe just a couple of teflon washers.

[freecableguy]

Ugh...how can you even think about the D4....it's not going to move ANY water....I really hate this Eheim 1250 too. People say they are powerful but they are NOT.

[The_Dark_Hacker]

dont forget you also have to get 3/4in to 1/2in adapter for the inlet and outlet. it may sound stupid of me to tell you but alot of people forget

[freecableguy]

Read about 4 posts up in this thread. I already have them...and, YES, they were a :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: to find. Anyway, thanks but I'm way ahead of you!

[The_Dark_Hacker]

o i see. sorry for my mistake. i am just going to go into my closet and sob uncontrollably. anywho i wonder how hard that thing is to take apart. if i were to get one i would be forced to take it apart and paint it black. that is just how it has to be. blue world disrupt how my knight rider case mod is going to look

[freecableguy]

I doubt it comes with dismantling instructions....anyway, results on Tuesday! System goes down for buildup on Tuesday! Well, depending on how slow I am I might have results later on Wednesday night....

[The_Dark_Hacker]

i have searched everywhere for this pump and was wondering where you bought it.

[freecableguy]

http://www.toofishy.com/product.php?productid=18894&cat=580&page=1

[The_Dark_Hacker]

never mind i found it. i think I am going with either the t3 or t4 though. maybe. they put more heat into the water but you know what the hell. my thermochilll 120.3 can take it. you think that if i get the t4 and put the 1in to 1/2in barbs that it would add too much restriction to hwere t would be about the same as a t3

[freecableguy]

If you're going to go for the T3 you might as well get the T4 as they have the same power rating. Where have you found the T4 though?

[The_Dark_Hacker]

here http://www.toofishy.com/product.php?productid=18896&cat=580&page=2

if you go to the bottom of this page there is a button where you can go to page 2. it doesnt really stand out well.
at the bottom of this page
http://www.toofishy.com/home.php?cat=580

[freecableguy]

Ahh! Look at that, they have them all. I thouht they just had the T2 and T3. That's alright though, the T3/T4 is too much heat...T1/T2 is pushing it as it is. I think I made a good choice.

[The_Dark_Hacker]

yes to........many........choices...........decisions. .....
decsions

[freecableguy]

T2 is the best bet. And I can show you where to get the adapters too...they are black, of course...

http://www.amindustries.com/online.htm

Click on "FPT x Hose Barb" on the left...then all the way down at the bottom of the page: "TAF10 128 PP" in the right-hand column. You have to phone in orders though. Not a big deal. Took me about 3 minutes to order.

[The_Dark_Hacker]

i think i am just going to go with the t2. the extra heat in the water is just not worth the extra flow i might get.



but on the other hand, where am i going to mount this thing? the back is already taken with my res, top with rad, floor with a sheet of plexi to hide wires. pondering, pondering :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[freecableguy]

good choice. thats what i ordered too

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by freecableguy
http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/products/water_pump/velocity.html

http://www.bluelineaquatics.com/images/velocity_chart.jpg


Model: Blueline Velocity T2
In: MPT 3/4"
Out: MPT 3/4"
Max Total Head (FT): 28
Max Discharge (GPH) @ 0ft: 700
Input (w): 98
Length(in): 7.25
Width(in): 4.25
Height(in): 5

-kris
Umm, the T2 is a BAD choice... did you look at the P/Q curve? At all? Do you know how to read the P/Q curve? Max head ot the T2 is 18 Ft, don't know where you got 28 Ft?. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the T1 is the best choice, best pressure for the wattage. Maybe you can exchange it?

[Gogeta]

Originally posted by nikhsub1
Umm, the T2 is a BAD choice... did you look at the P/Q curve? At all? Do you know how to read the P/Q curve? Max head ot the T2 is 18 Ft, don't know where you got 28 Ft?. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the T1 is the best choice, best pressure for the wattage. Maybe you can exchange it?

He's right. You wont be pushing more than 2-3gpm through your loop, and at that flow rate, either the T1 or the T3 is the best choice.

[freecableguy]

Thanks for all of your concern. Yes, I know how to read the graph. The first post was a typo and has been fixed.

Gogeta....you think my loop has 16+ feet of head loss?? Are you MAD?! If that were true my Eheim 1250 (which provides a maximum of 6 feet 7 inches of head) would be running at shutoff head and there would be NO flow in the loop. Which mean....yep, I have LESS than that number for head loss in my loop. So, increase it somewhat (because my pump has 3/4" outlets and I will be necking down to 1/2" barbs) and call it....ahh, I don't know....8 feet, up from 4 feet.

Now take that number....read across from the horizontal, total head (ft) until you intersect the curve....T1 yields a little over 8GPM...T2 yields almost 10 GPM.

DISCLAIMER/NOTE: This solution is HIGHLY simplified as the real way to determine flow is to find the intersect of system resistance (as a function of system flow) and the pump curve.

So, why is the T2 better than the T1? Because I don't have an EXTEMELY high system resistance...which is what the T1 and T3 are for. As a result of the design of these pumps the T2/T4 are better at producing flow at lower heads while the T1/T3 are better at high heads.

So I guess my answer is YES. I understand. Do you?

-kris

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by freecableguy

So I guess my answer is YES. I understand. Do you?

-kris
Yep, I still think you'll get more GPH out of the T1 though.

[freecableguy]

BTW, did you just "decide" that my flow rate was going to be 2-3 gallons and then read up to the curve to find total head??? You need to go study pumps if thats what you did. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of on this board. Seriously, please...if you don't know what you are talking about DO NOT give technical advice on the subject. I am being totally serious.

-kris

[freecableguy]

nikhsub1 - you may be right as the crossover point for this pumps is 10 ft. I am very confident that my head loss will be less than 10 feet though, so therefore the T2 would be a better choice.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by freecableguy
nikhsub1 - you may be right as the crossover point for this pumps is 10 ft. I am very confident that my head loss will be less than 10 feet though, so therefore the T2 would be a better choice.
OK, your comments tell me that you do not know much about head loss... head loss is tied to pressure of the pump, not exclusively of your components. Example is in YOUR system, and Eheim 1250 will experience 'xy' head loss due to it's pressure. A velocity T1 for example will experience much more resistance in the same loop. Bottom line is that your head loss with the SAME components is DIFFERENT with different pumps. T1 is a better choice. You will never see the higher free flowrates the T2 offers, the T2 is designed for low pressure circulation requiring little head.

[freecableguy]

Yes, I do understand head loss. Did you read my note:


DISCLAIMER/NOTE: This solution is HIGHLY simplified as the real way to determine flow is to find the intersect of system resistance (as a function of system flow) and the pump curve.

I agree with everything you have said EXCEPT that I will be operating in the lower portion of that graph. I will make a graph illustration my point and will post it here soon.

[pauldenton]

Originally posted by freecableguy
nikhsub1 - you may be right as the crossover point for this pumps is 10 ft. I am very confident that my head loss will be less than 10 feet though, so therefore the T2 would be a better choice.

freecableguy the "headloss" for your system is not constant over different flow rates, it varies with flow squared..... so resistance at 2gpm is 4 times that at 1gpm etc...

looks to me like the T1 and T2 both pump 8GPM at 12ft.... but NO concievable loop would have a resistance that low at 8GPM(64 times the resistance at 1gpm :eek: ) (equivalent to less than 3 inches of head at 1GPM - less than a Maze 4 on it's own with no tubing, rad etc...)

the only thing that would contribute to the headloss and would be constant over flow would be actually raising the water a distance in an OPEN system (eg a "bong")... a 3ft bong adds 3ft of resistance whatever the flow....

bottom line is that a T1 would beat a T2 flowwise in ANY closed loop - our components aren't freeflowing enough for the T2 to win.... but whether you'd actually notice any benefit is debateable as the T1 is still likely to get a high enough flow rate that we're well into diminishing returns :cool:

[freecableguy]

After a few rough calculations, I have determine that the better pump is.....is doesn't matter. pauldenton is correct on this account, we are into diminishing returns with the T1 over the T2 with high system resistances. The T1 buy nothing over the T2 except for a higher system pressure....flow rates are going to be almost identical. But since systems pressure has NOTHING to do with heat transfer (unless we want to start talking about nucleat boiling situations) I am satisfied with the choice I have made. In any case this pump should at least double what my Eheim 1250 is flowing, I am shooting for triple.

[Gogeta]

Originally posted by freecableguy
BTW, did you just "decide" that my flow rate was going to be 2-3 gallons and then read up to the curve to find total head??? You need to go study pumps if thats what you did. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of on this board. Seriously, please...if you don't know what you are talking about DO NOT give technical advice on the subject. I am being totally serious.

-kris

Dude...chill the :banana: out. I'm not even going to respond to this, or your previous, slanderous post.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by freecableguy
In any case this pump should at least double what my Eheim 1250 is flowing, I am shooting for triple.
No it won't not even close. To double the flow in a closed loop like we use, you need to roughly quadruple the pressure (as pauldenton suggested earlier). So the 1250 has a max head of 2M, you need 4x that to double your flow, so you need a pump with an 8M head. The T2 has about a 5.5M head, so you won't double the 1250's flow. Now (as i have been saying for the last 3 posts) the T1 would have just about given you double the flow of the 1250 with an 8M head (25ft.).

Like with my 3 D4's, I don't get 3x the flowrate of 1 D4... I would need 4 D4's to double the flowrate of 1 D4. I do have about a 30 foot head with the 3 of them though.

[freecableguy]

The "4x the head to 2x the flow" argument only applies if the same pump curve (i.e. same pump) is applied. This is a new pump so things change as the PQ curve is different and the BEF point moves.

[nikhsub1]

Originally posted by freecableguy
The "4x the head to 2x the flow" argument only applies if the same pump curve (i.e. same pump) is applied. This is a new pump so things change as the PQ curve is different and the BEF point moves.
Not really although 4x pressure = 2x flow is a rough guide and not exact.

[freecableguy]

nikhsub1 - I just ordered a T1....I'll run both and let you know idle and full load temperature with each setup. I won't change anything but the pump, I won't break any other connections including the waterblock. We'll just see which one is better. The loser pump will make it's way to eBay.

[pelikan]

The Iwaki 20 RZ has 22' of head and uses only 60W.