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CodeRed
06-19-2004, 05:49 AM
Gents,

I've just found a way to really boost your A64 performance using WPCREDIT.

The A64 mem controller registers can be accessed using WPCREDIT using Bus #0, Device #24, Function #2. There are 4 main registers that I have been playing with:

0x88 DRAM Timing Low
0x8C DRAM Timing High
0x90 DRAM Configuration Low
0x94 DRAM Configuration High

The timings registers set all the DRAM timings params (as you'd expect), but there are many more than most BIOSes will show you. The best performance is obtained using:

Column Address Strobe # (CAS) = 2.0
Row Cycle Time (Trc) = 8
Row Refresh Cycle Time (Trfc) = 12
RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) = 2
Row to Row delay (Trrd) = 2
Min RAS Active Time (Tras) = 5
Row Precharge Time (Trp) = 2
Write Recovery Time (Twr) = 2
Write to Read Delay (Twtr) = 1
Read to Write Delay (Trtw) = 1

I normally write this as 2-8-12-2-2-5-2-2-1-1 for convenience ... not that rememering all those values is easy.

To set the mem timings to the above values change the registers as follows:
reg 0x88 to 0x02522311
reg 0x8C to 0x00000B00
(use 32 bit mode in WPCREDIT)

I have only begun to experiment with the Config registers but some of the things I have tried are setting the Asynchronous Latency Value (controlled by reg 0x94). Normally my BIOS sets this to 7ns, but when I dropped it to 4ns there was a healthy boost to my memory performance. To do this set bits 0-3 of reg 0x94 to 0100 (binary) (4 for those who cant read binary).

Just to make things more interesting, bits 22-20 of reg 0x94 control the DRAM speed (200, 166, 133, 100 Mhz). There are several reserved values, and I decided to try 110. Surprisingly this gave me a mem speed somewhere inbetween 200 and 166 MHz. This may be a 183 Mhz mem option I need to test some more to confirm these results.

Oh, 2T is also easy to disable :D

We no longer have to worry about BIOS updates, its all there in the DRAM registers. Over time I may write a simple windows app to set all this up in a user friendly fashion ... just need to find the time.

Only thing I cant do is set the bank interleave. Doing so would reorder the physical memory locations ... not something I think windoze would be happy with :p:

Try it and compare your before and after benchies with something like pifast or superpi and you'll see the boost.

============================================

V0.31 of A64 tweaker is now ready (win 64 bit compatible now)
jump to this post
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=505345#post505345

or just download :a64tweaker_V031.zip (http://home.exetel.com.au/codered/A64Tweaker/A64Tweaker_V031.zip) * linked fixed now *

heres another dl link for those who have problems downloading the app: v0.50 XT beta (http://www.cranox.com/Software/A64-Tweaker/A64Tweaker.exe) or v0.31 final (http://www.cranox.com/Software/A64-Tweaker/a64tweaker_V031.exe)

v0.60 Beta is up! (http://www.cranox.com/Software/A64-Tweaker/A64Tweaker_V0.6beta.zip)

_

Kunaak
06-19-2004, 05:54 AM
Excellent Finds there :D

LORD
06-19-2004, 06:52 AM
Nice find. Did you discover all these your self?

Ragnarok
06-19-2004, 06:58 AM
of course he did , he's worth his salt :D

CodeRed
06-19-2004, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by LORD
Nice find. Did you discover all these your self?

I woudlnt call it discover ... just read the write AMD tech docs.
This info has been right under our noses since day 1 of the A64 release.


For those who want to disable 2T and dont have the option in the BIOs, just set bit 28 of register 0x90 to 0.


looks like there may also be ways to improve the memory overclocks, not just the aggressiveness of the settings ... I'll get back on this one.

blinky
06-19-2004, 07:09 PM
Awesome find bro!!!!!!!

:thumbsup:

HKPolice
06-19-2004, 09:01 PM
I get about 30MB/s faster in Sandra, not bad, but every bit helps I guess

CodeRed
06-19-2004, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by HKPolice
I get about 30MB/s faster in Sandra, not bad, but every bit helps I guess

Sandra doesnt really reflect the gains .. try SuperPi, Pifast or check your 3dmark01 lobby scores

pik-ard v1.1
06-19-2004, 09:20 PM
sticky? something like this deserves it, or atleast to be combined in some a64 guide.

Mariachi
06-19-2004, 09:32 PM
Sticky :)

HKPolice
06-19-2004, 11:56 PM
I can only change these settings while running CPU/12, freezes while in 1:1, and the 183Mhz as well as the 4ns settings freeze as well... I guess I'm already at the limit of my chips/mobo

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by HKPolice
I can only change these settings while running CPU/12, freezes while in 1:1, and the 183Mhz as well as the 4ns settings freeze as well... I guess I'm already at the limit of my chips/mobo

Only set the DRAM timings registers then, 0x88 and 0x8C. The 4ns setting is bloody hard on your RAM. Above 250 MHz I have to use 6ns and thats with some fast BH5 at 3.6V.

HKPolice
06-20-2004, 02:25 AM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Only set the DRAM timings registers then, 0x88 and 0x8C. The 4ns setting is bloody hard on your RAM. Above 250 MHz I have to use 6ns and thats with some fast BH5 at 3.6V.

Yes, I tried adjusting the timings @ 1:1 but no go.... only works when running with slow ram. Probably just the mobo or maybe the mem controller in the CPU.

What board are u testing it on

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 02:35 AM
Mines an AN50R

what mobo u running?


Just a note:
Some of the 'better' boards (eg K8N Pro with the right BIOS) allow you to change most of the timing values rom the BIOS. The only thing they dont (may not) change is the max latency and read preamble values. People with these boards dont need to change registers 0x88 and 0x8C. Just play around with register 0x94.


Another note:
read the "BIOS and Kernel Developers Guide For the Athlon 64" from .AMD (http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/26094.PDF). Its a damn good read and sheds the light on a lot of settings, not just for the memory controller. There may be a whole host of other tweaks that are possible ... just gotta start looking and testing.

macci
06-20-2004, 03:04 AM
Its funny how I got the 0x94 ram divider tweak to work only once (on GA-K8N F4, 166mode from BIOS)!? Now it just reboots or gives bluescreen.

When it worked Sandra unbuffered went from 1620MB/s to 1725MB/s after I set the 20-22 bits from 101 to 110
So it seems that this setting indeed adjusts the RAM divider.
101 = 1620MB/s = 2310/14 = 165MHz
110 = 1725MB/s = 2310/13 = 178MHz
111 = 2050MB/s = 2310/11 = 210MHz

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by macci
Its funny how I got the 0x94 ram divider tweak to work only once (on GA-K8N F4, 166mode from BIOS)!? Now it just reboots or gives bluescreen.

When it worked Sandra unbuffered went from 1620MB/s to 1725MB/s after I set the 20-22 bits from 101 to 110
So it seems that this setting indeed adjusts the RAM divider.
101 = 1620MB/s = 2310/14 = 165MHz
110 = 1725MB/s = 2310/13 = 178MHz
111 = 2050MB/s = 2310/11 = 210MHz

works every time on my board. I cant really see the usefullness of it ... unless your stuck between some odd HTT limit, CPU limit and mem limit.

Shame it doesnt enable those 0.5x multis :(

bias_hjorth
06-20-2004, 03:11 AM
uhh crasy nice.. glad someone toke their time to do the effort! very nice find codered :)

r3b0rN
06-20-2004, 04:28 AM
nice job

Jeff
06-20-2004, 05:03 AM
Great work! :toast:

Shroomalistic
06-20-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by CodeRed
works every time on my board. I cant really see the usefullness of it ... unless your stuck between some odd HTT limit, CPU limit and mem limit.

Shame it doesnt enable those 0.5x multis :(

Have you tried crystal cpuid, it works great with the .5 multies for me.

Shroomalistic
06-20-2004, 09:24 AM
can one of you guys post a pic of your wpcredit, I cant seem to find what or where to change this value.

EDIT: never mind, I figured it out. I had to change the device, never really used wpcredit before. so far its getting me stable at 230x10 but im not sure what the mem is at now. before I used to have to run it at a 166 to go to 230. I set what I think the mem divider is to 110 in wpcredit 0x94. So iguess thats the 183 divider or whatever.

Thanks for the tips guys

Shroomy

Boogotop
06-20-2004, 10:45 AM
really good find here Codered!!! :D

cowpuppy
06-20-2004, 10:56 AM
Ok I've tried getting through this but I'm just not understanding how to work wpcredit. I get the devices set up using Bus #0, Device #24, Function #2. and 32 bit but I get lost after this not being able to find the registers reg 0x88 and the others. If someone would help me out with a rundown of what I'm doing wrong and a screenie would be great.

Shroomalistic
06-20-2004, 11:12 AM
ill try to help

heres a little walk through, I just had to figure it out my self too.
this is how I change my ram divider from 166 to 180 or something close to 180.

Start wpcredit
go to the edit tab and select device or press (ctrl+d)
http://home.comcast.net/~shrmytoon/ScreenHunter_004.gif
scroll down to pci bus : 0, device : 24, function :2 and double click on it.
http://home.comcast.net/~shrmytoon/ScreenHunter_001.gif
go to the veiw tab and select bit mod or 32 bits
http://home.comcast.net/~shrmytoon/ScreenHunter_005.gif
now look at the data it shows you, you will see the 90 on the left and the 00000004 on the top, that will equal 0x94 in the settings.
click on the value where they meet and double click on it.
http://home.comcast.net/~shrmytoon/ScreenHunter_002.gif
on the bottom you will see a hex and a bin value. Each number in the bin value is a different bit. so in this case I was trying to change the bit 22-20 settings from 101 to 110. (22=1,21=0,20=1) so I change the 21 value to 1 from 0 and the 20 value from 0 to 1.
http://home.comcast.net/~shrmytoon/ScreenHunter_006.gif
Dont forget to hit set when your done.

I hope this helps, I will look for the setting you are trying to change and post a couple of pics for ya.

Shroomalistic
06-20-2004, 12:10 PM
Well for me, it does change the ram divider but it changes to a 200 not a 180. Not sure if there really is a 180 in there or not.

EDIT: scratch that last coment, it does seem to be working. I was just able to bench at 240x10 with 22-20 set to 110.

Shroomalistic
06-20-2004, 02:10 PM
do changeing any of them memtimings listed change the ras to cas timing? I just want to know wich ones would be safe cause my ram wont do a ras to cas 2 only 3.

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Shroomalistic
Have you tried crystal cpuid, it works great with the .5 multies for me.

The A64 uses whole values (integers) for the memory divider. If you set your CPU multi to say 10.5x and the mem 1:1, then the memory will actually be running with the 11x divider. CPU-Z reports it incorrectly.

cpulloverclock
06-20-2004, 03:23 PM
0x88 = 0x02522310 = 8-12 cas1.5
0x02522311 = 8-12 cas2
0x02522301 = 7-12 cas2
0x02522300 = 7-12 cas1.5

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
0x88 = 0x02522310 = 8-12 cas1.5
0x02522311 = 8-12 cas2
0x02522301 = 7-12 cas2
0x02522300 = 7-12 cas1.5


Oops better edit my first post

0x02522311 is what I have been using :eek:

cpulloverclock
06-20-2004, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Oops better edit my first post

0x02522311 is what I have been using :eek: I'm using 0x02522200 and 800 for 0x8C

BSOD and rtlnicxp.sys (realtek) problem with 0x02522000 :D

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
I'm using 0x02522200 and A00 for 0x8C

BSOD and rtlnicxp.sys (realtek) problem with 0x02522000 :D

my mem wont run stable below 2-8-12-... although I copuld probably do 2-7-13...


A00 is just different refresh values ... didnt make any performance gain for me

Try the RdWrQByp and BypassMax values in the config resgister. Set these values to the maximum ... it helped a little bit more in SuperPi and Pifast.

cpulloverclock
06-20-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
my mem wont run stable below 2-8-12-... although I copuld probably do 2-7-13...


A00 is just different refresh values ... didnt make any performance gain for me

Try the RdWrQByp and BypassMax values in the config resgister. Set these values to the maximum ... it helped a little bit more in SuperPi and Pifast. the japanese use wcpredit or wpcrset to have a better time at superpi???

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
the japanese use wcpredit or wpcrset to have a better time at superpi???

I can almost match cal930 28 sec result at 11x270 ... very close now, just gotta work on my Win2003 tweaks. At 29.232 sec right now with only minor 2003 tweaks.

I noticed that he used 128MB ram (as reported by SuperPi). Maybe its an old dual sided stick and gets some boost due to interleave ... or he setup a 128MB RAM disk :D

These guys are hard to catch.

Shroomalistic
06-20-2004, 04:27 PM
my 0x88 value is 12423401 and it took my timings to 2,3,2,5,7,16.

what do i have to change to get that 16 down to 13 or what ever is best.

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by Shroomalistic
my 0x88 value is 12423401 and it took my timings to 2,3,2,5,7,16.

what do i have to change to get that 16 down to 13 or what ever is best.

Are you talking about the bank cycle time (Trc) or the DRAM idle timer value?

Shroomalistic
06-20-2004, 04:55 PM
No Actually i was talking about my DRAM idle timer. Sorry bout that.


so far from testing i was able to change my RAS# to CAS# delay by changin bit 15-12 of 0x88 and my Bank cycle time (trc) by changing bit 7-4. My CAS setting will only run at Cas 2 nothing lower or higher so im stuck there. Is there any program that will telling me what my full timings are. Cpu-z doesnt show much.

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 05:01 PM
The DRAM Idle timer has two controls

an dynamic/static enable flag and a counter value

Ive tested all combos and leave it where its at. This is the fastest.

Disabling the dynamic counter load is absolute crap ... very slow. And changing the counter value (with dynamic mode enabled) doesnt seems to affect either superpi or pifast.

tictac
06-20-2004, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Gents,

I've just found a way to really boost your A64 performance using WPCREDIT.

The A64 mem controller registers can be accessed using WPCREDIT using Bus #0, Device #24, Function #2. There are 4 main registers that I have been playing with:

0x88 DRAM Timing Low
0x8C DRAM Timing High
0x90 DRAM Configuration Low
0x94 DRAM Configuration High

The timings registers set all the DRAM timings params (as you'd expect), but there are many more than most BIOSes will show you. The best performance is obtained using:

Column Address Strobe # (CAS) = 2.0
Row Cycle Time (Trc) = 8
Row Refresh Cycle Time (Trfc) = 12
RAS# to CAS# delay (Trcd) = 2
Row to Row delay (Trrd) = 2
Min RAS Active Time (Tras) = 5
Row Precharge Time (Trp) = 2
Write Recovery Time (Twr) = 2
Write to Read Delay (Twtr) = 1
Read to Write Delay (Trtw) = 1

I normally write this as 2-8-12-2-2-5-2-2-1-1 for convenience ... not that rememering all those values is easy.

To set the mem timings to the above values change the registers as follows:
reg 0x88 to 0x02522311
reg 0x8C to 0x00000B00
(use 32 bit mode in WPCREDIT)

I have only begun to experiment with the Config registers but some of the things I have tried are setting the Asynchronous Latency Value (controlled by reg 0x94). Normally my BIOS sets this to 7ns, but when I dropped it to 4ns there was a healthy boost to my memory performance. To do this set bits 0-3 of reg 0x94 to 0100 (binary) (4 for those who cant read binary).

Just to make things more interesting, bits 22-20 of reg 0x94 control the DRAM speed (200, 166, 133, 100 Mhz). There are several reserved values, and I decided to try 110. Surprisingly this gave me a mem speed somewhere inbetween 200 and 166 MHz. This may be a 183 Mhz mem option I need to test some more to confirm these results.

Oh, 2T is also easy to disable :D

We no longer have to worry about BIOS updates, its all there in the DRAM registers. Over time I may write a simple windows app to set all this up in a user friendly fashion ... just need to find the time.

Only thing I cant do is set the bank interleave. Doing so would reorder the physical memory locations ... not something I think windoze would be happy with :p:

Try it and compare your before and after benchies with something like pifast or superpi and you'll see the boost.

If u dont want to use WPCREDIT u can built isa rom and embended it into biosfilewith cbrom... build a rom with:

header: 55 AA ; Boot Able rom
jmp init ; jump to code intialization
retf ; return far to system bios file

INIT
pushad
push eax
push edx
mov eax,0x80002184; eax=Bus0Dev2Func1,Offset 84,85,86,87
mov dx,0cf8 ; set dx as adress port
out dx,eax ; send the address to IO Space throgh dx port
mov dx,0cfc ; set dx as data port
in eax,dx ;Receive the data into eax for the address we sent through dx port
and eax,XXXXXX ; Change the data
or eax,XXXXXX ; Change the data
out eax,dx ; Send back the modded data through dx port
pop edx,
pop eax
popad
ret ; return to header

last bit; use 8 bit checksum

then install it with cbrom
cbrombiosname.bun /isa filename.bin

cheers :toast:

CodeRed
06-20-2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by tictac
If u dont want to use WPCREDIT u can built isa rom and embended it into biosfilewith cbrom... build a rom with:

header: 55 AA ; Boot Able rom
jmp init ; jump to code intialization
retf ; return far to system bios file

INIT
pushad
push eax
push edx
mov eax,0x80002184; eax=Bus0Dev2Func1,Offset 84,85,86,87
mov dx,0cf8 ; set dx as adress port
out dx,eax ; send the address to IO Space throgh dx port
mov dx,0cfc ; set dx as data port
in eax,dx ;Receive the data into eax for the address we sent through dx port
and eax,XXXXXX ; Change the data
or eax,XXXXXX ; Change the data
out eax,dx ; Send back the modded data through dx port
pop edx,
pop eax
popad
ret ; return to header

last bit; use 8 bit checksum

then install it with cbrom
cbrombiosname.bun /isa filename.bin

cheers :toast:

cheers, thats good info.

I want to be able to access the PCI config space from within windoze ... I assume the permissions dont allow me to use the in/out instructions. Is there an easy way .. like a nice library?

cpulloverclock
06-21-2004, 01:15 AM
weird, wpcrset doesnt apply this timings!!!!

CodeRed
06-21-2004, 03:00 AM
I think wpcrset aint working becuase it performs 8 bit accesses instead of 32 bit.

EDIT: I just borked my win2k partition with wpcrset ... grrrr


how do I boot up and bypass the wpcrset settings?

EDIT2: never mind, I worked it out :)

CodeRed
06-21-2004, 03:13 AM
Now for some good news...

I found a port driver that will allow me to access the I/O ports and subsequently the PCI config space registers from within windoze. So give me a few days and I'll have a windoze app that allows you to change all these timings on the fly.

I was thinking of limiting the controls to the 4 main DRAM registers listed in my first post. If anyone wants anymore registers let me know, and I'll see what I can do.

I may also add some controls for the DRAM/cache scrubber ... just gotta test these values and see if they help with performance first.

Tony
06-21-2004, 03:31 AM
Now this sounds VERY interseting...Awesome work CodeRed :)

CodeRed
06-21-2004, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by bigtoe
Now this sounds VERY interseting...Awesome work CodeRed :)

Well I shouldnt have jumped the gun. The library that I found only supports 8 bit port access. I have the source code but it relies on the NT DDK (which I dont have).


This confirms that 8 bit accesses (like WPCRSET does) wont work, and after re-reading the manual its pretty obviuos that only 32 bit accesses to the I/O ports will result in PCI config space transactions (page 28).


Anyone got the NT DDK or a port I/O library?

Tony
06-21-2004, 04:06 AM
Talk to Samuel at x-86secret.com im sure he will help.

CodeRed
06-21-2004, 04:21 AM
Originally posted by bigtoe
Talk to Samuel at x-86secret.com im sure he will help.

No probs, I found one that actually works anyway

http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone15/cat610/22947.htm

it has a few bugs eg doesnt start service on first time its executed, but the 2nd time is fine. I have the source to the service routine startup, so I'll fix it :)

this time I tested it before posting :D
http://users.tpg.com.au/spark69/iotest.jpg

cpulloverclock
06-21-2004, 10:29 AM
my best timings for the best score : http://membres.lycos.fr/cpulloverclock79/tweaks.JPG

CodeRed
06-21-2004, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
my best timings for the best score :

thats savage :D

try dropping Max Aysnc Latency to 6ns or even 5ns

HKPolice
06-21-2004, 02:52 PM
Can someone please post a guide to what each bit modifies? I seem to be getting different readings @ register 88 and 8C even if I leave the BIOS timings alone, and just switch between 1:1 and CPU/12

CodeRed
06-21-2004, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by HKPolice
Can someone please post a guide to what each bit modifies? I seem to be getting different readings @ register 88 and 8C even if I leave the BIOS timings alone, and just switch between 1:1 and CPU/12

An app will be redy some time tonight ... in beta form.

Shroomalistic
06-21-2004, 06:56 PM
Sweet, cant wait

cpulloverclock
06-21-2004, 09:36 PM
up

CodeRed
06-21-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
up

Give me a few more hours ... its written but untested, and I am still at work :(

cpulloverclock
06-21-2004, 09:58 PM
then good afternoon

I'm sleeping

CodeRed
06-22-2004, 04:01 AM
At last, I have finished the first beta version of A64Tweaker.

Heres a sample screen shot:
http://users.tpg.com.au/spark69/A64Tweaker/a64tweaker_V01.jpg


This is Version 0.1 and is still quite rough, but it works :D
I have only tested this on an AN50R + C0 stepping 3400+ (S754), but it should still work on any S939, S940 or CG stepping chip.

Download a64tweaker_V01.zip (http://members.iinet.net.au/~zzhang/a64tweaker_V01.zip) (Thanks to ragnarok for hosting this for me)

This first cut displays all the bit field values, including the reserved ones. At some point I would like to work out sensible names for each of these reserved settings so feel free to work out what they do.

Just remember this is a beta release, so I will be fixing up the know bugs and adding any features/setting that people feel are good. Just PM me or drop a note in this thread.

The above screen shot shows some good settings, but I am sure people will work out better ones.

Happy experimenting.

==============================================

Installation
--------------

1. Unzip the a64tweaker_V01.zip file to a directory.
2. Run a64tweaker.exe ... thats it

On the first run the proggie will setup the legacy IO drivers. This sometimes fails, but dont worry, just execute the program a second time.

Known Bugs
----------------

1. First execution may fail to load the IO driver.
Workaround: Run a second time.

2. Doesnt always load the registers values upon startup.
Workaround: Hit the refresh button.

3. No error checking what so ever.

Boogotop
06-22-2004, 04:05 AM
thx Codered!!!

work fine here :D

//mAr
06-22-2004, 04:54 AM
On Chaintech ZNF-250 works fine.
Thx...
/edit
3400+ CG MPMW @2,6ghz (1,7 volt)
S754

Shroomalistic
06-22-2004, 05:04 AM
Been testing it on my ga-k8n pro and A64 3000 C0, works great so far.

Thanks very much Codered


EDIT: You definitly dersevered your sticky man, right on..............wrote this down here cause I didnt want to mess this thread up too much. Remeber people, dont mess up a sticky with a lots of spam.

CodeRed
06-22-2004, 05:09 AM
Glad to hear its working on other rigs

Could you guys edit your posts with the type of CPu you have

C0/CG stepping
S754/S940/S939

Just want to make sure it work on all revisions of the A64. If it doesnt work on all revisions then I'll have to query the CPU ID and adjust some of the options.

Duronbird
06-22-2004, 05:19 AM
a64 3200+(CG, L2 512)@2.66G
ADA3200AEP4AX_CBASC0411WPBW
K8N

Work excellently :D :banana:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/macoo/duronbird/a64/3200/3200CG_test_K8N_5m58s.PNG

cpulloverclock
06-22-2004, 05:56 AM
excellent

what are the best timings and settings for

max asynch latency
read preamble
idle cycle limit
dynamic idle cycle counter

cpulloverclock
06-22-2004, 05:59 AM
it works perfectly with a CG core

pik-ard v1.1
06-22-2004, 06:35 AM
duronbird, what could you get before you used this?

by that, i mean max OC, ram timings, and super pi.

i just wanna know exactly how much this helps.

Boogotop
06-22-2004, 07:53 AM
3400+ CG here
Gigabyte K8N

cpulloverclock
06-22-2004, 08:09 AM
200 a 205 with 2*BH-5 =

1.5 ----------------- 16x
7 ----------------- 64bit
9 ----------------- disable
2 ----------------- enable
2 ----------------- disable
5 ----------------- 7x
2 ----------------- 4ns
2 ----------------- 4.0ns
1 ----------------- 16clks or 64
1 ----------------- disable
133MHz 7.8µs---- 200
1


230 and more :

1.5 --------------- 16x
7 --------------- 64bit
12 --------------- disable
2 --------------- enable
2 --------------- disable
5 --------------- 7x
2 --------------- 5ns
2 --------------- 5.0ns
1 --------------- 16clks or 64
1 --------------- disable
133MHz 7.8µs--- 200
1

HKPolice
06-22-2004, 08:29 AM
Wow this program kicks ass!!!!! Now it only needs an option to apply these settings every bootup :D

cpulloverclock
06-22-2004, 09:06 AM
edit

ras to ras delay = reserved 001b = 1T
min ras active time = 0011b = 3T

I would like to save my settings with this prog..

tictac
06-22-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by HKPolice
Wow this program kicks ass!!!!! Now it only needs an option to apply these settings every bootup :D

lol... that is to much to ask for i think...
coz we need to save it on CMOS

CodeRed... excellent job.... congrats :toast:

CodeRed... try read the cmos data.. u can access it with 8 bit mechanism...

Address Port: 70h
Data Port: 71h

CodeRed
06-22-2004, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by HKPolice
Wow this program kicks ass!!!!! Now it only needs an option to apply these settings every bootup :D


Yes, I was thinking about that too.

Next version will have a save/restore settings option. I will also make a simple console application that can restore settings at startup.


I will wait about a week before releasing the next version. That way all requests can be incorporated.

@tictac
What can I expect to find in the CMOS data .. will the contents be BIOS specific?

tictac
06-22-2004, 01:59 PM
not sure either.... but i'm pretty sure they save the data in there
when we power off...

I tried tweak my cmos but ended with CMOS Checksum error... :(

Anyway if u can load it when windows boot up that will be nice to :) GL

cpulloverclock
06-22-2004, 02:05 PM
cordered, u can do the same think for the I875/I865 chip?

CodeRed
06-22-2004, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
cordered, u can do the same think for the I875/I865 chip?

I am not familiar with the 875/865 chipset registers. If you can supply me with the info then I can write another proggie for that ... testing might be a bit hard though since I dont own an intel board.

I could test on this :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:ty DELL box that I have at work ... it needs some tweaking ... 2.4GHz that does superpi 1M in 1min13sec:p:

cpulloverclock
06-22-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
I am not familiar with the 875/865 chipset registers. If you can supply me with the info then I can write another proggie for that ... testing might be a bit hard though since I dont own an intel board.

I could test on this :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:ty DELL box that I have at work ... it needs some tweaking ... 2.4GHz that does superpi 1M in 1min13sec:p: what do u want exactly? I dont know any tweak :(

HKPolice
06-22-2004, 05:38 PM
I doubt these kind of tweaks would yield much for a P4 setup since the northbridge is a bottleneck between the CPU and ram, therefore slightly tighter ram timings would barely even show up in benches.

Add to that the fact that P4's netburst architecture doesn't benefit from low latency ram as much as A64, and the overall gains will be next to nothing.

Of course, no one can be certain until they try

HKPolice
06-22-2004, 05:41 PM
BTW, the 2T command rate doesn't seem to work with my C0 stepping A64... I try to enable it, and it just goes back to disable after pressing set. I don't think this is a bug with your program though since I tried modifying it with wcpredit before, and it did the same thing. Any reason for this? :confused:

CodeRed
06-22-2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by HKPolice
BTW, the 2T command rate doesn't seem to work with my C0 stepping A64... I try to enable it, and it just goes back to disable after pressing set. I don't think this is a bug with your program though since I tried modifying it with wcpredit before, and it did the same thing. Any reason for this? :confused:

2T is only supported by CG stepping and above

Drisler
06-22-2004, 06:11 PM
Nice Job.

Works with my setup. :toast:

CodeRed
06-22-2004, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
excellent

what are the best timings and settings for

max asynch latency
read preamble
idle cycle limit
dynamic idle cycle counter

max async latency .. the lower the better, but I cant run below 6ns at max FSB

read preamble ... doesnt seem to do much, 4ns is good
idle cycle limit ... 16 clocks (irrelevant with dynamic enabled)
dynamic ... enabled

also set read write queue bypass & bypass max to their max values

Ragnarok
06-22-2004, 07:57 PM
what about the tref? which is the most aggressive timing? i assume lower the ns the aggressive it is?

CodeRed
06-22-2004, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Ragnarok
what about the tref? which is the most aggressive timing? i assume lower the ns the aggressive it is?

Tref is the DRAM refresh rate. Refresh doesnt happen that often so it doesnt affect performance to badly. The less frequency refresh rates are best for performance, but it wont make any noticeable difference

blass
06-22-2004, 09:29 PM
nice!!! JOB!! CODERED question though what would be the best settings for a A64 3000 newcastle and a K8N PRO. with OCZ EB pc3500 ?? Shroomalistic what settings u using since we seem to have the same set-up :)

cpulloverclock
06-23-2004, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by CodeRed
max async latency .. the lower the better, but I cant run below 6ns at max FSB

read preamble ... doesnt seem to do much, 4ns is good
idle cycle limit ... 16 clocks (irrelevant with dynamic enabled)
dynamic ... enabled

also set read write queue bypass & bypass max to their max values I'm running at 5ns

CodeRed
06-23-2004, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
I'm running at 5ns

Wow, I expect to see some great superpi and pifast scores then.

Have you tried 3dmark .. it would be interesting to see what are the best timings for that. Maybe it will be different for car, lobby & drago. Even can change mem ratio for each test :)

HKPolice
06-23-2004, 05:01 AM
Just tried using the 183Mhz setting, and it works, but CPU-Z doesn't show the actual clock of the ram... Is there another prog that will?

LORD
06-23-2004, 05:59 AM
Nice Tweaker, CodeRed. :D

cpulloverclock
06-23-2004, 10:02 AM
there is a black screen when I move the write cas latency timing, and you?

beta cpu-z 1.23 special S775
http://membres.lycos.fr/cpulloverclock79/cpuz123.JPG

Duronbird
06-23-2004, 10:45 AM
where 1 can download that

cpulloverclock
06-23-2004, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Duronbird
where 1 can download that nowhere

CodeRed
06-23-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
there is a black screen when I move the write cas latency timing, and you?

beta cpu-z 1.23 special S775


Yes, same for me.

Will the newest CPU-Z report all the tiiming values?

I can give the author the info he will need to do this if required.

cpulloverclock
06-23-2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Yes, same for me.

Will the newest CPU-Z report all the tiiming values?

I can give the author the info he will need to do this if required. yes you can for the trcd, trDRAM

Franck has some problems with this version and the I925, 915 about the frequency memory, he doesnt know how to recover it

if somebody can help us saving a dump with different ratios and to send that to franck : cpuz@cpuid.org

example of this problem :

http://219.113.251.125/c-board/file/SetFSB-P5GD1_CPU-Z-beta.png
http://219.113.251.125/c-board/file/36s_251.67x14.png

fxr91
06-23-2004, 04:56 PM
The app you provided CR works fine on my 8KDA3+ and C0 3400+ :) Full stepping info is somewhere in a thread over on OCAU :banana:

One thing I noticed though, it kills MBM5 if you have it running at the same time. Nothing to be worried about though :)

//mAr
06-23-2004, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by fxr91
[B]

One thing I noticed though, it kills MBM5 if you have it running at the same time.
speedfan also.

cpulloverclock
06-24-2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Yes, same for me.

Will the newest CPU-Z report all the tiiming values?

I can give the author the info he will need to do this if required. and for the 32 byte granularity? a freeze when I put disable (enable by default) :mad:

CodeRed
06-24-2004, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
and for the 32 byte granularity? a freeze when I put disable (enable by default) :mad:

Same again for me too.

I might remove the options that cause freezes in the next release. No point in having them if they dont work.

tRCD is obtained from bits 14-12 of the DRAM Timing Register (Low). Bus 0, Device 24, Function 2. It's encoded as follows:

000b = reserved (probably 0 clocks :o )
001b = reserved (probably 1 clock)
010b = 2 clocks
011b = 3 clocks
100b = 4 clocks
101b = 5 clocks
110b = 6 clocks
111b = reserved (probably 7 clocks)

Thats straight from the AMD specs.


tDRAM? Whats this, its not in the AMD specs? Does it go by another name perhaps?

EDIT: never mind about tDRAM I misread it .. tRDRAM :)

cpulloverclock
06-24-2004, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Same again for me too.

I might remove the options that cause freezes in the next release. No point in having them if they dont work.

tRCD is obtained from bits 14-12 of the DRAM Timing Register (Low). Bus 0, Device 24, Function 2. It's encoded as follows:

000b = reserved (probably 0 clocks :o )
001b = reserved (probably 1 clock)
010b = 2 clocks
011b = 3 clocks
100b = 4 clocks
101b = 5 clocks
110b = 6 clocks
111b = reserved (probably 7 clocks)

Thats straight from the AMD specs.


tDRAM? Whats this, its not in the AMD specs? Does it go by another name perhaps?

EDIT: never mind about tDRAM I misread it .. tRDRAM :) ok I'm blind

CodeRed
06-24-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by fxr91
The app you provided CR works fine on my 8KDA3+ and C0 3400+ :) Full stepping info is somewhere in a thread over on OCAU :banana:

One thing I noticed though, it kills MBM5 if you have it running at the same time. Nothing to be worried about though :)

Does it crash when A64Tweaker starts up or when you hit the "Set" button?

@//mAr, same question


My suspicion is that the io.dll module I use to access the PCI config space registers is doing something weird with the I/O Permission Map .. probably doing something stupid like setting exclusive access. This dll doesnt have the facility to customise the permission map, I might drop the author a line on this one.

krampak
06-25-2004, 09:15 AM
Works fine on mi 3400+ C0 CAAOC

Wich are the best Tras, Trc and idle timer for A64? I'm actually running at 284 1:1 3-4-4-10-10-16 2'8V (CPUZ Info)

CodeRed
06-25-2004, 01:37 PM
My BH5 likes
Tras = 5
Trc=8
Idle Timer = 16

But considering your current timings I doubt your mem will take it ... try it anyway.

HKPolice
06-25-2004, 06:09 PM
For all settings, the lower the better, except for Tras, anandtech did an article about it, and they say a setting of 10 is best for A64 platforms. In Sisandra, I notice no difference between 5 and 10, but in memtest86, 10 does yield about a 30MB/s increase.

blass
06-26-2004, 01:22 AM
ohh my god this proggy makes my computers a lot faster !!!! runs smooth like butter keep working on the new version guys!!! :banana:

cpulloverclock
06-26-2004, 05:38 AM
franck delattre is preparing an universal tweaker

Ragnarok
06-28-2004, 05:14 AM
I had another play with it last night, after turning off mem slot 3 and 4 and tweaked a few mem timing, my HTT significantly went up?? Tried to replicate the results without tweaking and it BSOD'ed straight away... and then worked again when I tweaked it again

Gone from unstable @ 300 to stable @ 315.., so anyone else on AN50R might wanna try that

Ragnarok
06-28-2004, 06:49 AM
Tried again, same as before. Narrowed it down to TRC, TRFC, or disabling the mem slots.

Before 280 HTT BSOD, now 330 HTT @ default HTT voltage...

krampak
06-28-2004, 07:38 AM
What did you do??? Can you paste a screenshot? Amazing increase... I'm stuck at 285HTT...

CodeRed
06-28-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Ragnarok
Tried again, same as before. Narrowed it down to TRC, TRFC, or disabling the mem slots.

Before 280 HTT BSOD, now 330 HTT @ default HTT voltage...

Thats great news man, no need to get a new mobo ;)

BTW: new version with save/restore and startup settings will be available in about a week.

HKPolice
06-28-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Thats great news man, no need to get a new mobo ;)

BTW: new version with save/restore and startup settings will be available in about a week.

I can't wait :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:

IvanAndreevich
06-28-2004, 08:13 PM
CodeRed
You're doing an awesome job. Thank you!

krampak
06-29-2004, 07:14 AM
I've just bought 2x256 OCZ PC3500EB... and can't pass 230HTT! :( Tried Cas 2'5-3-3 and nothing... can't pass that without a BSOD :confused:
Can you OCZ EB users post your A64 tweaker values? FSB/values...
I'm really :( ...

All voltages at +0'3V, plus Vdimm at 2'9V.
It does 225HTT at cas 2-2-2 estable :confused: :confused: (1:1)
At 228 (2'5Ghz) (always with 11X multiplier), it says not exact in round at superpi (at any timing), with 1'8Vcore.. before was stable at 2'7Ghz with 1'75V fsb280... something is going wrong!!! It should be a memory problem, because with an HTT divider I can pass 275HTT.. but memory stills failing at >225
Any ideas? Bad memory? bad luck? Should I try diferents slots?

PD: rig in da firm + win2k3.

krampak
06-29-2004, 11:31 PM
I thought that memory was like the PC3700 one... just read a review from pcstats:


We started to slowly raise the clock speed of the motherboard a few MHz at a time, at 217 MHz we had to increase the memory voltage a bit to 2.8V, or stock voltage of the memory. To our surprise after that we were able to get the memory all the way up to 230 MHz while using memory timings of 2.5-2-2-5! Loosening the timings did not allow us to get any higher but still this is pretty impressive for high speed DDR!

If I've known it before buy them....

Duronbird
06-30-2004, 06:18 PM
Works fine Epox 8HDA3+ (via)

CodeRed
07-01-2004, 03:19 AM
Good news, version 0.2 is now ready for testing :banana:

Download: a64tweaker_V02.zip (http://users.tpg.com.au/spark69/a64tweaker/a64tweaker_V02.zip)

New Features
[list=1] Added save/restore of the register setting to a text file.
Added option to apply the settings at startup.
This feature uses the HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run registry keys.
Added a silent command line mode so that you can set your register settings using desktop links etc etc.
Usage: a64tweaker.exe [filename][/list=1]

Register File Format

The register files are written in the standard windows INI file format. This makes it easy to read and edit by hand. A typical register file is shown below:


[DRAM]
Tcl=1
Trc=1
Trfc=3
Trcd=2
Trrd=2
Tras=5
Trp=2
Twr=0
Twtr=0
Trtw=0
Tref=11
ReadWriteQueueBypass=3
ControllerMode=0
ECCMode=0
BypassMax=7
TwoTTiming=0
MaxAsyncLatency=6
ReadPreamble=4
IdleCycleLimit=3
DynamicIdleCycleCounter=1
MEMCLKFrequency=7
MEMCLK0=1
MEMCLK1=0
MEMCLK2=0
MEMCLK3=0

Each field is optional, so if you only want to change certain fields (and leave the rest up to the BIOS) then just comment out or delete what you dont want changed. The following is an example of a register file that will only set the Tcl (CAS Latency) value to 2.0. All other parameters will be unchanged.


[DRAM]
Tcl=1


The values in the register file correspond to the actual bit field values. In the future I will make it simpler so that you can have stuff like the following but I just ran out of time:


[DRAM]
Tcl = 2.0 ; sets CAS Latency to 2.0


Things to do
[list=1] Find out what the reserved CAS latency fields correspond too.
Add some error checking and reporting. An error in the register file is silently ignored :)
Learn how to format a post nicely :D
[/list=1]


Enjoy, and please report any bugs via PM.

cpulloverclock
07-01-2004, 05:27 AM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Good news, version 0.2 is now ready for testing :banana:

Download: a64tweaker_V02.zip (http://users.tpg.com.au/spark69/a64tweaker/a64tweaker_V02.zip)

New Features
[list=1] Added save/restore of the register setting to a text file.
Added option to apply the settings at startup.
This feature uses the HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run registry keys.
Added a silent command line mode so that you can set your register settings using desktop links etc etc.
Usage: a64tweaker.exe [filename][/list=1]

Register File Format

The register files are written in the standard windows INI file format. This makes it easy to read and edit by hand. A typical register file is shown below:


[DRAM]
Tcl=1
Trc=1
Trfc=3
Trcd=2
Trrd=2
Tras=5
Trp=2
Twr=0
Twtr=0
Trtw=0
Tref=11
ReadWriteQueueBypass=3
ControllerMode=0
ECCMode=0
BypassMax=7
TwoTTiming=0
MaxAsyncLatency=6
ReadPreamble=4
IdleCycleLimit=3
DynamicIdleCycleCounter=1
MEMCLKFrequency=7
MEMCLK0=1
MEMCLK1=0
MEMCLK2=0
MEMCLK3=0

Each field is optional, so if you only want to change certain fields (and leave the rest up to the BIOS) then just comment out or delete what you dont want changed. The following is an example of a register file that will only set the Tcl (CAS Latency) value to 2.0. All other parameters will be unchanged.


[DRAM]
Tcl=1


The values in the register file correspond to the actual bit field values. In the future I will make it simpler so that you can have stuff like the following but I just ran out of time:


[DRAM]
Tcl = 2.0 ; sets CAS Latency to 2.0


Things to do
[list=1] Find out what the reserved CAS latency fields correspond too.
Add some error checking and reporting. An error in the register file is silently ignored :)
Learn how to format a post nicely :D
[/list=1]


Enjoy, and please report any bugs via PM. Thx :toast:

saaya
07-01-2004, 05:31 AM
wow amazing! :toast:

HKPolice
07-01-2004, 05:50 PM
CodeRed, I love you, will you marry me? :D :smileysex

stasiu
07-01-2004, 05:54 PM
Anyone played with this on the 939 FX's yet? This is absolutely incredible. TY very much.:toast:

CodeRed
07-01-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by HKPolice
CodeRed, I love you, will you marry me? :D :smileysex

Now you're freaking me out :eek:

HKPolice
07-01-2004, 07:13 PM
Umm, what do those mem clk 0 - 3 settings do?!? I'm surprised no one asked yet

CodeRed
07-01-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by HKPolice
Umm, what do those mem clk 0 - 3 settings do?!? I'm surprised no one asked yet

They enable/disable the four memory banks supported by the A64.

Most BIOSes will correctly set these values ... except for the AN50R which enables all four memory slots irrespective of how many memory sticks are actually present.

Ragnarok, got a nice speed bump by setting these values correctly (using AN50R).

HKPolice
07-01-2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
They enable/disable the four memory banks supported by the A64.

Most BIOSes will correctly set these values ... except for the AN50R which enables all four memory slots irrespective of how many memory sticks are actually present.

Ragnarok, got a nice speed bump by setting these values correctly (using AN50R).

Cool THANKS :D

Also, would increasing the Tref (using 200Mhz 3.9us instead of 133Mhz 7.8us) help stabilize the ram since it refreshes more often?

What's the difference between a 200Mhz and 133Mhz setting anyways? I thought the 3.9us or 7.8us was the milisecond refresh rate and not the Mhz?

HKPolice
07-01-2004, 09:56 PM
Ok I'm having probs every reboot. It says something somethin "cannot connect to device". I think it's cuz windows is still loading all the devices 'n stuff, is there anyway to delay the startup of this prog for 10, 15sec so it loads after the devices are loaded?

HKPolice
07-01-2004, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
max async latency .. the lower the better, but I cant run below 6ns at max FSB

read preamble ... doesnt seem to do much, 4ns is good
idle cycle limit ... 16 clocks (irrelevant with dynamic enabled)
dynamic ... enabled

also set read write queue bypass & bypass max to their max values

I get about 10MB/s more in sandra with dynamic idle timer DISABLED :confused:

the.m
07-01-2004, 10:55 PM
Came across this and must say its excellent :toast:

I have one small problem, when changing the cas lat setting windows just freezes, I tried 3 sets of ram and still the same, CO stepping cpu.

EmineM
07-02-2004, 02:13 AM
could someone code one of these for the P4 S478 or does it already work?

CodeRed
07-02-2004, 02:43 AM
@HKPolice,

I see a couple of problem with using the sandra mem banchmark as a reference.

Firstly, 10MB/sec is only a small gain and possibly due to the variantion between runs.

Secondly, the sandra mem benchmark has a very sequential memory referencing pattern. It is very localised and greatly benefits from in-page access cycles. By enabling the dynamic idle cycle counter the mem conroller is probably prematurely invalidating pages and thus inccurring a performance hit. If this is truely the case then try disabling the dynamic idle cycle counter (the mem controller will then use a static counter algorithm) and set the Idle Cycle Counter to its max value (256 clocks). This should ensure that mem pages remain valid for as long as possible. Test it and let me know how it goes.

Thirdly, sandra sucks as a benchmarking tool :D It really measures the burst speed of your memory. Try it unbuffered and I am sure the results will be different.

@the.m,
Most memory with the A64 only works at either CAS2.0 or CAS2.5/3.0. Not many sticks work with both cas2.0 and cas2.5 (XMS3500C2 may be an exception here). My kingston sticks wont run anything but cas2.0 or 1.5. CAS2.5/3.0 just freezes. There may be a combination of parameters that helps out, but I dont know what that is (yet).

@EmineM,
cpulloverclock is working on a universal tweaker, so drop him a line.

saaya
07-02-2004, 03:25 AM
amazing work! keep it up!

HKPolice
07-02-2004, 07:05 AM
What benchmark program would you recommend in windows? I would use Cachemem, but it's only accurate while in DOS only mode.. :(

Nope, I did A LOT of runs, and variations between runs were a max of 2MB/s. (I turned everything off for each run, including LAN connections) So a 10MB/s difference is not a glitch, you should test it :)

I'll try the unbuffered bench right now, as well as 256 Idle


Originally posted by CodeRed
@HKPolice,

I see a couple of problem with using the sandra mem banchmark as a reference.

Firstly, 10MB/sec is only a small gain and possibly due to the variantion between runs.

Secondly, the sandra mem benchmark has a very sequential memory referencing pattern. It is very localised and greatly benefits from in-page access cycles. By enabling the dynamic idle cycle counter the mem conroller is probably prematurely invalidating pages and thus inccurring a performance hit. If this is truely the case then try disabling the dynamic idle cycle counter (the mem controller will then use a static counter algorithm) and set the Idle Cycle Counter to its max value (256 clocks). This should ensure that mem pages remain valid for as long as possible. Test it and let me know how it goes.

Thirdly, sandra sucks as a benchmarking tool :D It really measures the burst speed of your memory. Try it unbuffered and I am sure the results will be different.

@the.m,
Most memory with the A64 only works at either CAS2.0 or CAS2.5/3.0. Not many sticks work with both cas2.0 and cas2.5 (XMS3500C2 may be an exception here). My kingston sticks wont run anything but cas2.0 or 1.5. CAS2.5/3.0 just freezes. There may be a combination of parameters that helps out, but I dont know what that is (yet).

@EmineM,
cpulloverclock is working on a universal tweaker, so drop him a line.

cpulloverclock
07-02-2004, 03:04 PM
try streamD

jess1313
07-02-2004, 06:32 PM
Hey guys this is a pretty good quick mem tester & it seems to show changes real easy. It doesnt give high #s like sandra but it is very quick & responds good.

By the way code red the prog runs flawless on my rig I am on now. Shuttle SN85G4 - 3200 CG mobil. Kicked my 3D mark score up 250 points. Muskin 222.

CodeRed
07-03-2004, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by jess1313
Hey guys this is a pretty good quick mem tester & it seems to show changes real easy. It doesnt give high #s like sandra but it is very quick & responds good.

By the way code red the prog runs flawless on my rig I am on now. Shuttle SN85G4 - 3200 CG mobil. Kicked my 3D mark score up 250 points. Muskin 222.

Thanks for the heads up on the test prog :toast:

Also good to hear that your 3dmark score is getting a boost ... thats what I wrote it for :)

krampak
07-03-2004, 08:34 AM
I can't make it run in Win-64bits edition... says:
Unable to start IO.sys service. Error code = 1275
Eprivilege

dmon
07-03-2004, 05:49 PM
Works great for me, Thanks. Since moving to a GB of ram I've had to run a 5:3 devider I used the 183 Memclk freq. and went from a sandra score of 2800 to 3200. (230 HTT) I gained about 500 points on my 3dmark 01. Does anyone know what devider the 183 uses? From my sandra score I'm guessing my ram is at about 210. I can't find anything to show me my ram speed.

jayl
07-03-2004, 06:18 PM
use CPU-Z to show your RAM speed....

dmon
07-03-2004, 06:22 PM
It blanks out the memory speed in CPU-Z when you use the tweaker.

CodeRed
07-03-2004, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by dmon
Works great for me, Thanks. Since moving to a GB of ram I've had to run a 5:3 devider I used the 183 Memclk freq. and went from a sandra score of 2800 to 3200. (230 HTT) I gained about 500 points on my 3dmark 01. Does anyone know what devider the 183 uses? From my sandra score I'm guessing my ram is at about 210. I can't find anything to show me my ram speed.

Tha memory divider is given by:

mem divider = ceil(CPU Multi x 200 / mem freq)

where mem freq = 200, 183.333, 166.666, 150, or 133.333

and ceil() rounds up to the next integer value

dmon
07-05-2004, 03:34 PM
Codered, You went over my head with your explanation. I figured it out a few days ago. 183/200*230 puts me at 211. Thanks again the tweaker helps my setup run noticably faster.

cpulloverclock
07-06-2004, 08:57 AM
codered, look at the last post :D

http://219.113.251.125/c-board/c-board.cgi?cmd=ntr;tree=2703;id=

Learn
07-06-2004, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by cpulloverclock
codered, look at the last post :D

http://219.113.251.125/c-board/c-board.cgi?cmd=ntr;tree=2703;id=

and this

http://www012.upp.so-net.ne.jp/ohij2/

CodeRed
07-06-2004, 02:09 PM
I cant read japanese but I can see that the Japs have now picked up A64 Tweaker. Also saw references to A64 Tweaker on a lot of french sites :)

Damn, now I'll never catch them :D


BTW: Anyone know of a japanese to english translator?

cpulloverclock
07-06-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
I cant read japanese but I can see that the Japs have now picked up A64 Tweaker. Also saw references to A64 Tweaker on a lot of french sites :)

Damn, now I'll never catch them :D


BTW: Anyone know of a japanese to english translator? http://world.altavista.com/

kyosen
07-06-2004, 08:43 PM
Did you call me?;)

Many thanks to CodeRed, your tool improved my ABIT AV8
extremingly:D

AV8's BIOS has a problem... Trc setting in BIOS is neglected.
...If we set Trc as 7, the system wake up at 12:mad:
A64Tweaker can fix it, so now we can enjoy AV8 performance!

I strongly appreciate you, CodeRed!!!

CodeRed
07-06-2004, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by kyosen
Did you call me?;)

Many thanks to CodeRed, your tool improved my ABIT AV8
extremingly:D

AV8's BIOS has a problem... Trc setting in BIOS is neglected.
...If we set Trc as 7, the system wake up at 12:mad:
A64Tweaker can fix it, so now we can enjoy AV8 performance!

I strongly appreciate you, CodeRed!!!


Glad to hear its working for you :)

LikwidKool
07-07-2004, 10:30 AM
quick question. Alot of the timings that are in A64 tweaker seem to be in the bios of the K8NSpro. Is there any difference in using the tweaker than the bios? Guess it is just like using clockgen instead of the bios. Also is there anywhere that explains all the different timings and what they do exactly?

I am not on my A64 rig right now, but I am excited to try this app out. Thanks for the hard work!!

CodeRed
07-07-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by LikwidKool
quick question. Alot of the timings that are in A64 tweaker seem to be in the bios of the K8NSpro. Is there any difference in using the tweaker than the bios? Guess it is just like using clockgen instead of the bios. Also is there anywhere that explains all the different timings and what they do exactly?

I am not on my A64 rig right now, but I am excited to try this app out. Thanks for the hard work!!

There is no difference between setting the values in the BIOS or A64 tweaker. Most BIOSes arent as good as the K8Nxxxx series and dont allow for setting of all the memory parameters.

There are some extra settings that the BIOS doesnt give you control over, in particular all those under the Configuration Parameters section. Try setting the following and you will get a slight improvement over what the BIOS can give you:

Read Write Q Bypass 16x
Bypass Max 7x
Max Async Latenecy 5ns or 6ns (depends onwhat you mem can take ... lower the better)
Read preamble 4ns


A good exaplaination for all the memory timings parameters is hard to find (I am still looking). Try downloading the BIOS & kernel developers guide for the A64 (26094.pdf) from AMD. This explains some apsects of the parameters.

LikwidKool
07-08-2004, 08:26 AM
thanks for responding Code Red. Tell you what. You A64Tweaker is awesome. Finally was able to try it out, and lowered my Super Pi by a second so far!!! Now at 35 sec with my 3200 at 2.5ghz.

Also while the settings might be similar to the bios, being able to tweak and test on the fly is indespensible. You are my hero!

BTW will try thos settings you suggest tonight when I get home from work.

blass
07-17-2004, 07:41 PM
on CG cpu is it better if I disable T2?? make it 1T?

CodeRed
07-17-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by blass
on CG cpu is it better if I disable T2?? make it 1T?

yes that is correct. Disabling 2T command rate will give a noticeable gain is performance.

LikwidKool
07-17-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by krampak
I can't make it run in Win-64bits edition... says:
Unable to start IO.sys service. Error code = 1275
Eprivilege

I just loaded WinXP 64 and get the same error message. Tried starting it multiple times and it's a no go. This is dissapointing as I love the tweaker and want to give this 64bit XP some testing.

CodeRed
07-17-2004, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by LikwidKool
I just loaded WinXP 64 and get the same error message. Tried starting it multiple times and it's a no go. This is dissapointing as I love the tweaker and want to give this 64bit XP some testing.

I'll have a look at that when I get WinXp-64 installed.

Have to wait for in the next revision .. sorry guys.

BMORIN
07-17-2004, 11:13 PM
You're a genius CodeRed. I could never get passed 34sec and I used your exact bh-5 tweaks and I dropped to 33sec on my stock air cooled 3400+ @ 2.515GHZ (1.7v - mobo limit).

Has anyone fiddled with the Tweaker & 3700eb ram? Just interested to know what settings are working for you.

Kamerat
07-18-2004, 05:24 AM
Is there any way to choose the RAM divider directly (/10, /11, /12... of CPU speed) with software?

jess1313
07-18-2004, 08:52 AM
Originally posted by LikwidKool
I just loaded WinXP 64 and get the same error message. Tried starting it multiple times and it's a no go. This is dissapointing as I love the tweaker and want to give this 64bit XP some testing. Hey I have tried to load 64b XP & I cant get it to load, Am I doing something wrong. Maybe you know the reason. Thanx

swaaye
07-18-2004, 01:17 PM
CodeRed,

Thanks for dumping your time into creating this tweaker! I was wondering if something like this was possible.....

I'm using your A64Tweak on my eMachines 6805 notebook. Your tweaker lets me set the RAM clock to 200Mhz from 166, and it's stable just by upping the RAStoCAS a notch. Absolutely amazing.

I'm having a couple of problems. First, when I set A64Tweak to apply on startup, I get a bunch of errors with the IO.sys driver. It says something about not having priveleges. I have no problems with it once Windows is fully logged in. This is XP Home edition 32bit

Secondly, A64Tweak will completely hardlock my system if I don't use SpeedswitchXP to set my CPU to Dynamic clock adjust. It my CPU is in Max Performance mode, it locks. You have any idea what's up here?

CodeRed
07-18-2004, 01:47 PM
@Kamerat,
The A64 doesnt allow you to directly choose the multiplier. You only get divider options and the mem controller calculates the multi to use.

@jess1313,
This is a known problem .. I am working on it. May need to write my own I/O port driver as the one I use isnt compatible with 64 bit windoze. I have also emailed the author of this driver, maybe he will update it. I also did a bit of a search last night, there may be some alternative freeware drivers that I can use, there are many, but most require a lisence fee.

@swaaye,
Try running A64 Tweaker from your Startup menu instead of from the registry, just place a link under Programs->Startup. It should work.

As for the hard lock problem, I have no idea. I havent tested this proggie on a mobile CPU and am not familiar with the SpeedswitchXP options. Try disabling this stuff completely.

swaaye
07-18-2004, 01:49 PM
Actually I have it in the Startup folder. I tried both....

Regarding the mobile CPU issues, I'll mess around with the power management stuff and get back to you.

jess1313
07-18-2004, 03:11 PM
Im sorry what I ment was I cant get the 64bit OS to load on my rig. Havnt tried the tweaker on a 64 bit OS yet.

Kamerat
07-18-2004, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by CodeRed
@Kamerat,
The A64 doesnt allow you to directly choose the multiplier. You only get divider options and the mem controller calculates the multi to use.
Thank you for clearing that up. Great program BTW... :)

LikwidKool
07-18-2004, 04:32 PM
thanks for replying code red. I actually just dumped XP 64 in favor of plain ol XP again. XP 64 is very rough, and the 3D benches are horrible. Plus none of my favorite tweakers like A64 tweak and ATI Tool work. Still though it's a good look of things to come!

jess pm me and I'll see if I can help. Parts of XP64 need some finagling to load such as the ethernet drivers.

swaaye
07-19-2004, 12:04 AM
Well I reinstalled Windows XP. It was time to do it anyway.

But, I was sorta hoping it would fix the IO.DLL problem I'm having. It still gives me the odd priveliges error. This is when running the program manually well after windows has started up.

Is there something we have to do to register the file with windows?? This error seems almost random....

The error windows I get in sequence are:
----------
"Unable to extract IO.SYS. Log in as a user who has such permission"

"EPrivlege."
----------

I'm logging in as a user with administrative privileges. And what does it mean by extract??

I also get another error with the IO.dll sometimes saying it can not be connected to.

I was thinking. CPUCool, for example, installs a DLL for itself and makes you reboot. What does it do with that and is that what you need to do here?

cpuz
07-19-2004, 10:35 AM
Codered,
I can provide you a C++ library and drivers, that will allow your program to work with Win XP 64, and if you need, access the A64 MSR.
Just drop me a mail if you are interested.
BR.

CodeRed
07-19-2004, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by cpuz
Codered,
I can provide you a C++ library and drivers, that will allow your program to work with Win XP 64, and if you need, access the A64 MSR.
Just drop me a mail if you are interested.
BR.

Thanks, you're a champ :toast:

StonedOne
07-19-2004, 07:43 PM
hi nice program m8 !

but im having trouble changin the MEMCLK Frequency, when ever i change it, as soon as i hit set my compter freezes and i have to restart :( i would really really like to use the 183mhz divider thing as it would help me greatly.

btw im on a 3200 clawhammer C0 and a Abit Kv8 max-3 v1.2

728mb of bh-5.

can u help ?


(all the other options work fine) :)

CodeRed
07-19-2004, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by StonedOne
hi nice program m8 !

but im having trouble changin the MEMCLK Frequency, when ever i change it, as soon as i hit set my compter freezes and i have to restart :( i would really really like to use the 183mhz divider thing as it would help me greatly.

btw im on a 3200 clawhammer C0 and a Abit Kv8 max-3 v1.2

728mb of bh-5.

can u help ?


(all the other options work fine) :)

Have you tried the 166 MHz option?


The 183MHz option using a 10x CPU multi will result in a 11x memory multi. You may be better off using 9x on the CPU and 166 MHz on the mem ... this will still result in a 11x memory multiplier.

StonedOne
07-19-2004, 07:52 PM
yes even if i have it set to 200 in bios, then i change it to 166 it crashes. and viserversa. :(

if i went to a 9x multi i would have to clock the fsb very high to get a large mem mhz wouldent i ? its just my hardrives corrupts at anything over 245 HTT cos of no locks :(

StonedOne
07-19-2004, 07:56 PM
hmm

CodeRed
07-19-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by StonedOne
yes even if i have it set to 200 in bios, then i change it to 166 it crashes. and viserversa. :(

if i went to a 9x multi i would have to clock the fsb very high to get a large mem mhz wouldent i ? its just my hardrives corrupts at anything over 245 HTT cos of no locks :(

OK 9.5x will give a lower HTT bus speed ... maybe low enough

Alternatively try with only one stick of memory, it may be the 768 MB causing problems.

StonedOne
07-19-2004, 08:01 PM
can a64s run .5 multiplayers ?

ok ill try with one stick of ram :) aswell

CodeRed
07-19-2004, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by StonedOne
can a64s run .5 multiplayers ?

ok ill try with one stick of ram :) aswell

9.5x cpu multi with 166 or 183 MHz mem option will result in 11x memory multi

jess1313
07-20-2004, 04:29 AM
Dont you have to set refesh rate TREF to go along with the mem divisor. When I use the divisors I have to set this to go with the divisor or it crashes. Then on 183 I use the 166us.

yuri
07-20-2004, 06:57 AM
Thank you CodeRed, i just got a new high score for myself using you program : )

http://24.158.154.102/images/41.97x600.jpg

swaaye
07-20-2004, 09:26 PM
I'm wondering if anyone else is having the problems with the IO.DLL file not being found, or lacking privileges, or whatever.

I don't understand the errors. It's horribly annoying. I can't run A64Tweak on startup because it never works when the computer is still loading things. It works 50% of the time when windows is fully booted.

IvanAndreevich
07-20-2004, 09:52 PM
swaaye
You are the Admin, right? Do you have any antivirus software or stuff like that?

swaaye
07-20-2004, 10:43 PM
Yeah the account has admin privileges. I do have AVG running. I'll try shutting it down.

IvanAndreevich
07-21-2004, 01:12 AM
swaaye
Yeah the 1st thing I thought is that the prog is unregistered and stuff so antiviruses have no idea what it is. Maybe they try to "protect" your comp from the tweaker? :banana:

tictac
07-21-2004, 09:15 AM
if u know which register to set.... build an isa rom and install it to the bios... so it will load the setting before windows bootup

or ... mod the epa procedure and make a call to our new injected code.... :toast:

swaaye
07-21-2004, 12:47 PM
Yup, it was AVG that was messing with IO.dll.

Unfortunately I still can't set A64Tweak to run on startup because unless I have my system set to Dynamic Clock Switching with SpeedswitchXP (I'm on a A64 laptop) my system will instantly lockup with any change in A64Tweak.

SpeedswitchXP doesn't seem to apply its settings fast enough on startup to be done before A64Tweak hits, even with A64Tweak starting up after SpeedswitchXP.

So, I just have a icon on my desktop that automatically has A64Tweak apply my custom settings.

BTW, by having A64Tweak put my RAM at 200Mhz I get another 500MB/s of RAM bandwidth according to Sandra and Everest. Now that is improvement :)

The only thing I had to change to get it stable was RAStoCAS from 3 to 4. I have yet to find any instability after Prime95 testing, KOTOR, and Total Annihilation gaming.

CodeRed
07-21-2004, 02:16 PM
Glad to hear its working (at least partially) :toast:

The IO.DLL problems will all go away when I replace this module with a better one ... hopefully XP64 compliant too :)

cpulloverclock
07-22-2004, 10:39 AM
NF2 tweaker

http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?threadid=57468

blass
07-22-2004, 08:00 PM
how do you guys make the settings stay after reboot.?

CodeRed
07-23-2004, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by blass
how do you guys make the settings stay after reboot.?

File -> Apply Settings at Startup


or save the settings top a file and run from Programs->Startup

a64tweaker filename

blass
07-23-2004, 01:04 AM
ohh geesh! I didnt see that option lol!! sorry about that nice job code red!!:banana:

blass
07-23-2004, 11:41 PM
weird I get this message now==> Unable to extract IO.SYS.log in as a user who has such permission

CodeRed
07-24-2004, 03:00 AM
Gents,
All your driver problems are about to go away. Franck Delattre (the author of CPU-Z) has kindly provided me with a Windows 64 compatible version of his I/O utiltities (which is way more than just an I/O driver).

Normally these utilities are sold commercially, but Franck has waived any fees for the use with A64 Tweaker. We all owe Franck and his company, http://www.panopsys.com/ , many thanks for this.

V0.3 of A64 Tweaker using Franck's drivers will be available in about a week or so ... just depends on my workload.

@Franck, Ive looked at about 30+ I/O drivers so far (both free and commercial ones) and yours is easily the best. Programming with them will be a pleasure :)

:toast: :toast:

ojdr2001
07-24-2004, 03:05 AM
:toast: :toast:

blass
07-24-2004, 07:42 PM
CODERED IS THA MAN!!!!!!!!!:banana: :owned:lots of THANKS TO Franck too for sharing he knowledge !! :banana3:

jess1313
07-25-2004, 05:36 AM
THANX FRANCK

Gokou
07-26-2004, 07:59 AM
So whats the procedure with all this?
normal settings... find max overclock etc then alter the settings with this program to find the most performance / see if it allows higher overclock?

CodeRed
07-26-2004, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Gokou
So whats the procedure with all this?
normal settings... find max overclock etc then alter the settings with this program to find the most performance / see if it allows higher overclock?

Thats how I tuned my rig.

Firstly I found the max stable mem speed using BIOS setting .. 276 MHz.

Then I backed off to a safe speed of 270 MHz and started tweaking the mem timings. Try
2-7-13-2-2-5-2-2-1-1 or 2-8-12-2-2-5-2-2-1-1
Read Write Q Bypass = 16x
Max Async Latency = 6ns
Read Preamble = 5 ns
Bypass Max = 7x


Then I increased the mem speed again to see what it can hit with the more aggressive timings and re-tested. I only lost 1-2 MHz with the more aggressive timings, but gained a lot in performance.

PlatinumX
07-27-2004, 06:47 AM
Nice work very nice program. You may have said it already but it I make changes with the 64tweaker does that take affect immediately? Or do you generally have to reboot and add the file to startup to have this work. Also, I'm sort of new to this so please bare with me. If I'm running 1:1 better then 2:1 dividers and if so how can I change the clock ratio to match my memory speed. ie 2:1 ddr 400 under A8V bios settings. 1:1 equals ddr 200. Thanks.

CodeRed
07-27-2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by PlatinumX
Nice work very nice program. You may have said it already but it I make changes with the 64tweaker does that take affect immediately? Or do you generally have to reboot and add the file to startup to have this work. Also, I'm sort of new to this so please bare with me. If I'm running 1:1 better then 2:1 dividers and if so how can I change the clock ratio to match my memory speed. ie 2:1 ddr 400 under A8V bios settings. 1:1 equals ddr 200. Thanks.

The changes are applied when you click the "Set" button.

LilGator
07-27-2004, 02:47 PM
CodeRed, doesn't a Bank Cycle Time (trc) of 10 give you better performance than 5 ?

IE: 2-8-12-2-2-10-2-2-1-1 ?

CodeRed
07-27-2004, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by LilGator
CodeRed, doesn't a Bank Cycle Time (trc) of 10 give you better performance than 5 ?

IE: 2-8-12-2-2-10-2-2-1-1 ?

Not in my experience.

Most of my performance testing has been using SuperPi and PiFast. For these programs Trc = 5 (or lower) is best.

Havent done any detailed 3DMark testing yet .. too busy. But Trc=5 looks good here.

Maybe for Sandra Mem benching Trc=10 is best, but I havent checked this.

swaaye
07-27-2004, 04:08 PM
There's a thing with NForce2 chipsets that causes higher tRAS to have a positive impact on performance. It's odd, but has been proven in many benchmarks.

I doubt any other chipsets would display that, but I could be wrong.....

CodeRed
07-28-2004, 02:34 AM
Gents, V0.31 of A64 Tweaker is now available thanks to Franck Delattre's contribution of the Windows 64 bit drivers (from CPU-Z).

Download: A64 Tweaker V031.zip (http://home.exetel.com.au/CodeRed/A64Tweaker/a64tweaker_V031.zip)

Change Log New 64 bit Windows I/O drivers - now works with Win 2003 Server 64 bit :D
Added AMD64 processor ID check
Corrected compatibility issues with MBM5
Improved startup directory handling
The new drivers are far more robust than the driver I was previously using. I dont expect any more compatibility issues with other software packages incluing Anti Virus S/W, but I havent been able to verify this completely.

Enjoy !!

jess1313
07-28-2004, 03:16 AM
NO PROBS here, I am not using 64OS tho.

bias_hjorth
07-28-2004, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by CodeRed
Gents, V0.31 of A64 Tweaker is now available thanks to Franck Delattre's contribution of the Windows 64 bit drivers (from CPU-Z).

Download: A64 Tweaker V031.zip (http://users.tpg.com.au/spark69/A64Tweaker/a64tweaker_V031.zip)

Change Log [list=1] New 64 bit Windows I/O drivers - now works with Win 2003 Server 64 bit :D
Added AMD64 processor ID check
Corrected compatibility issues with MBM5
Improved startup directory handling
[/list=1] The new drivers are far more robust than the driver I was previously using. I dont expect any more compatibility issues with other software packages incluing Anti Virus S/W, but I havent been able to verify this completely.

Enjoy !!



Uhh I´ve been waiting for that number 4 answer !! :toast: Will try it ASAP!!:up:

swaaye
07-28-2004, 11:23 AM
I'm having a problem here with 3.1. It's not reading the initial settings when I load the program, nor is it applying things when I change them.....

These two screenshots are of both versions on initial loadup with my default bootup settings for the notebook. 0.2 SEEMS to be getting the proper initial settings (though I can't verify anything other than CL, tRCD, tRP, tRAS, and tRC).

LilGator
07-28-2004, 01:00 PM
the program indicates the 183* divider to be a reserved value, does it work ?

Clockgen shows the memory being -200MHz when set to that. As HTT goes up, memory goes negative even further :D

swaaye
07-28-2004, 01:04 PM
When I used the 183 with .2, it worked. To verify it I had to use a RAM benchmark, like Everest's. It's odd how everything seems to report a horribly wrong value. In Clockgen I was seeing -200Mhz.....

But, it seems to work.

LilGator
07-28-2004, 01:24 PM
Well, does this look normal for 244Mhz (267*183/200) 2-2-2-10 ?

http://upload.richfool.com/uploaded/267.jpg

CodeRed
07-28-2004, 02:08 PM
183 MHz DRAM setting does NOT mean that you mem is running at 183/200 of your FSB. It is just another method that the core uses to select the memory divider.

To calculate your actual mem frequency using 183 setting use this

mem divider = ceil(CPU Multi * 200/183.3)
mem freq = CPU Freq / mem divider

CPU-Z and clockgen wont recognise the 183 MHz DRAM setting so they will probably report unusual values. This is a reserved setting and is NOT specified by AMD ... thats why it has a * next to the selection.

@swaaye,
I have seen that effect before, it happens when the driver doesnt correctly load. Are you running V0.2 and V0.31 simultaneously? If it continues then you'll have to uninstall the driver by deleting the registry keys

HKLM/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Service/cpuz
and
HKLM/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Service/io.sys <--- old driver

then run A64Tweaker and it will reinstall the CPU-Z driver in the correct directory.

Let me know how it goes.

swaaye
07-28-2004, 02:08 PM
Yeah I'd say so. I compared 200Mhz at stock CPU to 200Mhz at 1.977 GHz on the 183 so I saw similar scores for both and new it was working.

So, PC3200 you get like 3.1GB/s. You just gotta scale your rating up with your clock. PC4000 is 250MHz, so yeah you look like you're scoring about right. The crazy efficency of the A64 memory controller lets you almost directly compare PCxxxx ratings to your test results.

LilGator
07-28-2004, 05:38 PM
mem divider = ceil(CPU Multi * 200/183.3)
mem freq = CPU Freq / mem divider

What does 'ceil' mean ?

CodeRed
07-28-2004, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by LilGator
mem divider = ceil(CPU Multi * 200/183.3)
mem freq = CPU Freq / mem divider

What does 'ceil' mean ?

ceil(x) means the next integer value >= x

its a standard C function ... it rounds up.

LilGator
07-28-2004, 06:14 PM
Ah, makes sense :) Thx... so with a 9x multi the mem divider is 10x, perfect :p:

aschrate
07-30-2004, 01:52 AM
@CodeRed

thank you for this cool tool.

could you please give me a hint to the amd-documentation you read,
to find maybe the registers that are usefull to improve stability for
C0-stepping and 2xDS 512mb sticks. this combination gives a lot of
headace to me, because i can not run higher fsb then 230mhz
without freeze or other kind of crashing pc.

best regards

CodeRed
07-30-2004, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by aschrate
@CodeRed

thank you for this cool tool.

could you please give me a hint to the amd-documentation you read,
to find maybe the registers that are usefull to improve stability for
C0-stepping and 2xDS 512mb sticks. this combination gives a lot of
headace to me, because i can not run higher fsb then 230mhz
without freeze or other kind of crashing pc.

best regards

This is a good guide to the register settings

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/26094.PDFF

aschrate
07-30-2004, 03:45 AM
thanks for the link,
something to read for the weekend ;)

Arnar
07-31-2004, 05:47 AM
Where do I get WPCREDIT?

bias_hjorth
07-31-2004, 05:53 AM
Originally posted by Arnar
Where do I get WPCREDIT?


that was a joke right...
try look around 2 posts above you ;)

Iontach
08-01-2004, 03:07 AM
Hi Everyone,

I am having a problem with the RAM config on my new machine.

Cutting a long story short, I bought a Tyan Tiger K8W (AMD 8151 chipset) a single Opteron 250 and 1Gb of Corsair Registered CAS2 RAM (2x 512Mb DIMMS). The problem is that the RAM advertises that it can do 2-3-3-6 timings but it has 3-3-3-8 written into it's SPD. The BIOS on my mobo has no RAM timing adjustments at all so I cannot make the RAM run at the speed it is supposed to.

I posted about it on the Overclockers Australia forums and someone there suggested that I try using A64 Tweaker to solve my problem.

So I downloaded A64 Tweaker and fired it up but unfortunately whenever I try to adjust the RAM timings to what they should be my machine locks up as soon as I hit the "Set" button.

I can set CAS latency from 3 down to 2.5 and TRAS from 8 down to 7, but anything beyond that is no go.

So after all this I came over to these forums and read this whole thread and registered here so I could post this.

I don't really know much about this stuff at all and I have certainly never used anything like WPCREDIT before. But all the same I had a look through that AMD BIOS & Kernel Dev Guide PDF and I couldn't see anything in there that suggests that setting the RAM timings should be different for Opterons than other A64 chips. But then again maybe I just don't know what I am supposed to be looking for.

Should this work for me or is it a no go for Opterons or AMD 8151 chipsets? I really want to set CAS to 2 and TRAS to 6 since I paid a premium for this RAM expecting it to do those timings out of the box.

Are there other settings in A64 Tweaker that I could adjust that will allow me to set those timings and not lock-up my machine?

I know I may be grasping at straws here but I am desperate to get the performance I paid for out of my new rig.

You have my gratitude in advance for any light you can shed on this situation.

CodeRed
08-01-2004, 03:56 AM
Iontach,

A64 tweaker will work will all the A64 family including opterons.

Looks like your mem just cant handle more aggresive timings. Try turning off ECC for a start and then up the mem voltage (if your board supports it).

Iontach
08-01-2004, 04:17 AM
Heres an interesting thing. I looked in A64 Twekaer and the ECC Mode was set to "Disable". But when I reboot and check the BIOS it says that all ECC options were turned on. Which one is correct?

Anyway I turned all ECC options off in the BIOS. Rebooted, started up A64 Tweaker, set CAS to 2 and TRAS to 6 and hit Set and it locked up again. When I rebooted I got a CMOS checksum error and had to reset the BIOS. :( This is not the first time it has done this after rebooting from a lockup caused by A64 tweaker.

Anyway, with ECC off I can now set TRAS to 6 but I still cannot set CAS to 2.

You say it looks like my mem can't handle agressive timings, but I am not trying to overclock the memory at all, merely to achieve it's standard speed so these timings are not "agressive" at all when compared to the RAMS advertised spec. This memory is supposedly garunteed by Corsair to run at CAS 2.

Should I start thinking about asking for a refund?

---edit---

Sorry I forgot to mention that my BIOS has no RAM voltage options at all. Are there 3rd party utils for tweaking that too?

CodeRed
08-01-2004, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by Iontach
Heres an interesting thing. I looked in A64 Twekaer and the ECC Mode was set to "Disable". But when I reboot and check the BIOS it says that all ECC options were turned on. Which one is correct?

Anyway I turned all ECC options off in the BIOS. Rebooted, started up A64 Tweaker, set CAS to 2 and TRAS to 6 and hit Set and it locked up again. When I rebooted I got a CMOS checksum error and had to reset the BIOS. :( This is not the first time it has done this after rebooting from a lockup caused by A64 tweaker.

Anyway, with ECC off I can now set TRAS to 6 but I still cannot set CAS to 2.

You say it looks like my mem can't handle agressive timings, but I am not trying to overclock the memory at all, merely to achieve it's standard speed so these timings are not "agressive" at all when compared to the RAMS advertised spec. This memory is supposedly garunteed by Corsair to run at CAS 2.

Should I start thinking about asking for a refund?

---edit---

Sorry I forgot to mention that my BIOS has no RAM voltage options at all. Are there 3rd party utils for tweaking that too?

Doesnt sound like you having much fun with that board :(

re ECC setting: A64 Tweaker is correct of course ;) It reads the ECC enable bit directly from the DRAM controller registers

Another thing to remember is that if you apply settings that your system cant handle then expect a lock up.

what voltage is the RAM rated at?
tried different DIMM slots?

Also I just checked an old opteron data sheet and they only list 100, 133 and 166 MHz memory speeds with registered/ECC memory. Maybe this data sheet is too old (April 2003) or just maybe the opterons arent guaranteed by AMD to run 200 Mhz mem.

Iontach
08-01-2004, 05:28 AM
When I bought this board I knew tweaking options would be minimal but I didn't intend to overclock anything so I thought it wasn't an issue.

Little did I know that tweaking is required in order to run Corsair XMS modules at their advertised speeds. :rolleyes: Of course now that I am having troubles with the memory I have gone to the Corsair website and found all the fine print that says that the SPD will be JEDEC standard timings and the memory is only actually garunteed to run at the advertised speed on an ASUS SK8V motherboard. :rolleyes:

I cannot find any indication as to what voltage the RAM is running at now nor what it should be run at. The BIOS does not tell me what voltage the RAM is running at, are their any 3rd party programs that can do this? I looked all over the corsair website and the product broschure PDF makes no mention of voltages at all.

FYI the memory I have is called Corsair TWINX1024R-3200C2 (http://www.corsairmicro.com/corsair/products/specs/twinx1024r-3200c2.pdf) .

My motherboard manual says that I should always populate the RAM slots start from slot 1. I currently have DIMMS in slots 1 and 2 (there are four slots in total) which are the closest slots to the CPU. I can't see how moving the DIMMS to slots that are physically further away from the CPU could help to improve timing issues.

Originaly Opterons only used 333Mhz DDR RAM, but Opteron 246 and up will support 400Mhz DDR. My motherboard manual states that it supports 400Mhz registered DDR for Opteron 246 and up as well. (I have an Opteron 250).

jess1313
08-01-2004, 06:24 AM
I am having problems with it starting on bootup. Its always worked before. Any sugestions, do I need to put it in the start menu or reinstall the prog. I installed the new one & let it wright over the other. Works perfect tho just want boot wih settings, & like I siad the other loaded on boot no prob.

OK I got it working, but this was strange. I uninstalled & put it in the start menu. When I booted it went crazy & loaded the wierdest bunch of settings. Turning ecc on & 2t on & all the dimm slots & set stuff to like 28 & crazy #s. It had 128 controller mode & other crazy stuff. Then it just striatened out & is working perfect & loading my settings on boot & everything. Dont ask me I have no idlea but its fine now.

Thanks CODE-RED

zyx
08-02-2004, 11:07 AM
Nice Tweaker man

CodeRed
08-02-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by jess1313
I am having problems with it starting on bootup. Its always worked before. Any sugestions, do I need to put it in the start menu or reinstall the prog. I installed the new one & let it wright over the other. Works perfect tho just want boot wih settings, & like I siad the other loaded on boot no prob.

OK I got it working, but this was strange. I uninstalled & put it in the start menu. When I booted it went crazy & loaded the wierdest bunch of settings. Turning ecc on & 2t on & all the dimm slots & set stuff to like 28 & crazy #s. It had 128 controller mode & other crazy stuff. Then it just striatened out & is working perfect & loading my settings on boot & everything. Dont ask me I have no idlea but its fine now.

Thanks CODE-RED

I should probably re-iterate how to install V0.31 ... this will fix the startup type problems that some people are experiencing:

1. Remove A64 tweaker startup settings if it was installed before
2. Delete the following registry keys

HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\io.sys
HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\cpuz

3. Reboot
4. Install V0.31 and run it. The new driver and service will now be installed correctly ... with the correct file paths.

IvanAndreevich
08-03-2004, 10:05 AM
There's this K8V SE Deluxe board Rev. 1.12 I'm playing around with and it's one of those boards that has a problem running DDR333 memory as 2:1 (ie DDR400). So if you set it to 2:1 in the bios it will still run as 5:3 to the HT speed. If I set MEMCLK frequency to "200 MHz", it freezes instantly.

Is this ASUS problem or K8T800 problem? :stick:

CodeRed
08-03-2004, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by IvanAndreevich
There's this K8V SE Deluxe board Rev. 1.12 I'm playing around with and it's one of those boards that has a problem running DDR333 memory as 2:1 (ie DDR400). So if you set it to 2:1 in the bios it will still run as 5:3 to the HT speed. If I set MEMCLK frequency to "200 MHz", it freezes instantly.

Is this ASUS problem or K8T800 problem? :stick:

I dont know, since I havent used the K8T800 chipset or that particular ASUS board.

Id put my money on the ASUS board though as being the problem.

jess1313
08-04-2004, 08:05 PM
Tryed this, same thing. Sometimes it would work & then it would go crazy. I dont no, I went back to the earlier version & all is well.
I run w2k if that has anything to do with. But like I said it works perfect now. Thanx

IvanAndreevich
08-05-2004, 11:42 PM
CodeRed
Is there anything you could try to resolve that? I could beta-test on the K8V SE Dlx. It's just so damn annoying - having a DDR333 stick that can do DDR480 running @ 189 Mhz..

GenTarkin
08-06-2004, 12:23 AM
I have a 3400+ CG @ 2.5ghz
I am running 1GB of PC3200 Samsung cheap ol memory...what settings can you use in this program to get good speed and latency out of this memory?
currently I am at...
Tcl=2.5
Trc=11
Trfc=14
Trcd=3
Trrd=2
Tras=10
Trp=3
Twr=3
Twtr=2
Trtw=4
Tref=200 3.9
ReadWriteQueueBypass=8
ControllerMode=64
ECCMode=disable
BypassMax=4
TwoTTiming=disable
MaxAsyncLatency=6
ReadPreamble=6
IdleCycleLimit=5.0
DynamicIdleCycleCounter=enable
MEMCLKFrequency=200
MEMCLK0=1
MEMCLK1=1
MEMCLK2=0
MEMCLK3=0
225mhz

any recommendations? Thanks

CodeRed
08-06-2004, 02:40 AM
Originally posted by IvanAndreevich
CodeRed
Is there anything you could try to resolve that? I could beta-test on the K8V SE Dlx. It's just so damn annoying - having a DDR333 stick that can do DDR480 running @ 189 Mhz..

Id just like to confirm that this is a BIOS problem. The ASUS BIOS wont allow you to set DDR333 memory to 200 MHz. Is this correct?

Does your board also freeze when you set the mem clock frequency to 200 MHz ?

CodeRed
08-06-2004, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by GenTarkin
I have a 3400+ CG @ 2.5ghz
I am running 1GB of PC3200 Samsung cheap ol memory...what settings can you use in this program to get good speed and latency out of this memory?
currently I am at...



Try this:
Tcl=2.5
Trc=11 ---> 7 or 8 (not so important)
Trfc=14
Trcd=3 ---> 2 (most important)
Trrd=2
Tras=10 --> 5 (important)
Trp=3
Twr=3
Twtr=2
Trtw=4
Tref=200 3.9
ReadWriteQueueBypass=8 ----> 16
ControllerMode=64
ECCMode=disable
BypassMax=4 ----> 7
TwoTTiming=disable
MaxAsyncLatency=6
ReadPreamble=6
IdleCycleLimit=5.0 ---> 16 clocks
DynamicIdleCycleCounter=enable
MEMCLKFrequency=200
MEMCLK0=1
MEMCLK1=1
MEMCLK2=0
MEMCLK3=0

Those settings will help but then again your memory may not run with these timings.

If you can get away with the above settings then take it the next step and set these:
Trp=2
Twr=2
Twtr=1
Trtw=1

blass
08-06-2004, 10:50 AM
version V0.31 works on my system now!! no more error messages. and the settings stay everytime I reboot!!!:banana: CODERED!! CODERED!!

IvanAndreevich
08-06-2004, 09:23 PM
CodeRed
Well, I can set it to DDR400 in the bios but CPUZ still shows that it's running @ DDR333. When I change the mem setting from 166 -> 200 Mhz in the tweaker = instantly freezes.

CodeRed
08-06-2004, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by IvanAndreevich
CodeRed
Well, I can set it to DDR400 in the bios but CPUZ still shows that it's running @ DDR333. When I change the mem setting from 166 -> 200 Mhz in the tweaker = instantly freezes.

Can you run the memory at 200 MHz using the 166 MHz ratio by upping the FSB to 240 Mhz using clockgen?

IvanAndreevich
08-06-2004, 10:20 PM
CodeRed
Yes, but no 3d-stability because AGP becomes too much for the poor 9800PRO. Prime with large FFT size is ok, though.

CodeRed
08-07-2004, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by IvanAndreevich
CodeRed
Yes, but no 3d-stability because AGP becomes too much for the poor 9800PRO. Prime with large FFT size is ok, though.

Bugger, I thought it may have been a mem limit on that board.

OK, try 183 Mhz mem frequency. With a 10x CPU multi that will give 11x memory multi (a little better than 12x with 6:5 ratio).

Failing that can you send me a WPCREDIT shot of PCI bus 0, device 24, function 2 (in 32 bit mode). They may have set something wierd in the CPU registers, but really I suspect some hardware limitation.

IvanAndreevich
08-07-2004, 09:49 AM
OK will do tonight!

IvanAndreevich
08-09-2004, 01:31 PM
Ah haven't tried the 183 ratio on the K8V - got rid of my K8V SE Deluxe for a K8N-E. Tweaker works perfectly on K8N-E.

aldamon
08-15-2004, 03:36 AM
Any settings suggestions for a gig of OCZ 3700EB on an Epox 8KDA3J?

CodeRed
08-15-2004, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by aldamon
Any settings suggestions for a gig of OCZ 3700EB on an Epox 8KDA3J?

Well a gig is going to be hard to hit high MHz with.

First try with 2T command rate set to enabled (need a CG stepping for this to work) and see how it goes.

aldamon
08-15-2004, 04:10 AM
I'm Prime and Memtest stable at 10 x 235 @ 3-3-2-8-1T with the normal settings. I'm actually Memtest stable much higher, but my CPU won't cooperate. I guess I'll have to experiment. The system locks when I get it wrong though, so I was just looking for suggestions with the 3700EB. The problem I see with this program is that you can't run Memtest in Windows, so how do you know the settings are truly stable?

IvanAndreevich
08-15-2004, 11:41 AM
aldamon
>>The problem I see with this program is that you can't run Memtest in Windows, so how do you know the settings are truly stable?

Run prime95 with FFT sizes of 2048->4096 so only RAM is tested.

>> I'm actually Memtest stable much higher, but my CPU won't cooperate.

Drop the multi and use a super-high HTT and higher memory divider.

yuri
08-16-2004, 06:01 AM
Well this program just keeps getting bettter. with version 3 it loads on startup and runs great on my SK8V / FX53

it also allowed me a #16 spot on pifast challenge.

CodeRed rocks :toast:

overanxious
08-16-2004, 08:16 AM
This program rocks, but if you are new to this:
WHATEVER YOU DO:
do not put on "load at startup" until you have everything just as you want it. If you do this and use clockgen, you're golden Jerry!Golden!

blass
08-16-2004, 09:34 AM
can you translate this please?? -->
do not put on "load at startup" until you have everything just as you want it. If you do this and use clockgen, you're golden Jerry!Golden!

overanxious
08-16-2004, 09:57 AM
If your comp hangs up or freezes, you can reboot, go into bios, reset defaults, load windows, and BAM! The bad settings are there again. You then have to go into safe mode to fix it. If you know what you are doing, this is no prob, but a noob like me takes 45 mins (with had no "choose OS screen" to get to safe mode) and lots of worry before you correct it.

LilGator
08-16-2004, 08:38 PM
Press F8 to get to Safe Mode :D

overanxious
08-17-2004, 01:37 PM
Thanks, I knew that, but I had "choose OS" set at zero seconds, so I did not have any time allotted to push F8. I had to put in a non-system disk on startup, then eject it, THEN push F8.

OK, I've got 64Tweak, clockgen, ATITool, CPU-z all of the software.
I understand the overclocking concept and the equations, but...

Where are the $&#@ memory dividers?

Are they the ratios in Bios, and that is the only place you can change them? Or are they on 64tweak, and called something else? Is it automatic when setting frequency or refresh rate? I can't get the CPU/mem ratio lower than CPU/10, leaving me to believe I just have to set the divider to 10 now. Any help is appreciated.

3000, K8v SE, 9800pro, 1024 Mb pc3200 cas 3.[[

Samael
08-17-2004, 04:05 PM
I'd like to congrat CodeRed firstly
and...does any one know any tricks for my Hynix D5 chips(Corsair 4400 rev1.1)?
They are prety crapy on my ZNF-250,only 227error free with 2.8v 3-4-4-7....

Edit
And i have a CO stepping so no t2 for me....

Fa1con
08-17-2004, 08:32 PM
I am a bit confused on how the A64 Tweaker Works and wut its for? I really would like to tweak my A64 3000+ and id like to figure out how to change the memory timings so that i can get more overclock out of my cpu. Can u pls briefly explain to me wut this program does and how to use. I greatly appreciate it. Thank You.

CodeRed
08-18-2004, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by Falcon
I am a bit confused on how the A64 Tweaker Works and wut its for? I really would like to tweak my A64 3000+ and id like to figure out how to change the memory timings so that i can get more overclock out of my cpu. Can u pls briefly explain to me wut this program does and how to use. I greatly appreciate it. Thank You.

A64 Tweaker is used to get the most out of your A64 by allowing you full control over all the useful memory settings. Originally I wrote this because my AN50R BIOS was so lacking in memory timing options. Only the latest DFI BIOS allows such fine control over your timing options (amazing how similar the new DFI BIOS options are to those inA64 Tweaker :D ).

The ultimate goal is to have the tightest memory timings at the highest possible freq ... a good target is 2-7-12-2-2-5-2-2-1-1 (really need BH5 for this), but dont worry if you cant hit such aggressive values. Start at something like 2-10-13-2-2-6-3-3-2-2 and work your way down testing at each step.

I used SuperPi and Pifast to test the effectiveness of each change to my timings. Its best to choose a proram that really stresses memory and gives good systematic results (3DMark is a pain to tune since it varies from run to run).

I cant tell everyone what their best timings will be since it varies from RAM module to module. Some sticks work with agressive vaues others do not and you are better off with relaxed timings and higher FSB. You have to test your own sticks and see what works best for you.

Attached is a screen shot showing the values I get the best 3DMark, SuperPi and PiFast times with. My Kingston BH5 sticks run up to 274-277 MHz with these settings @ 3.6V.

PS Dont worry about the extra Link settings in V0.5XT for now ... I am still working on it ;)

Fa1con
08-18-2004, 07:04 AM
So the lower the settings are in # value in A64 Tweaker the faster the memory is running, correct? Is there a way to like lock the memory for when i do overclocking so i can get a higher HTT?

Fa1con
08-18-2004, 07:08 AM
Also i did those timings (the 2nd one) u told me today and my comp automatically restarted. Does that mean it is unstable i guess. If so is there other timings i can try?

overanxious
08-18-2004, 07:31 AM
CodeRed:
I notice that on your screenshot you have a box that says,"Link parameters." I have 64tweaker 3.1 and don't have those settings. Is THIS where you set your timing dividers? Is it because of my MB is the Asus K8V SE that it's not showing these options? I asked where the ram dividers are earlier. I'm so close to dialling this thing in, but I need to know where they are. Are they the ratios in Bios, and that is the only place you can change them? Or are they on 64tweaker, and called something else? Is it automatic when setting frequency or refresh rate? I can't get the CPU/mem ratio lower than CPU/10, leaving me to believe I just have to set the divider to 10 now. Any help is appreciated.

3000, K8v SE, 9800pro, 1024 Mb pc3200 cas 3.

Kador
08-18-2004, 11:54 AM
Just wait, the picture is from a "beta".

Thats' a damn nice prog, I got +600Mb/s at sandra memtest at first try, following codered's advices !

I have a problem with cpu-z (1.23.1), it doesn't displat the model of my cpu (which is a newcastle).

CodeRed
08-18-2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Falcon
Also i did those timings (the 2nd one) u told me today and my comp automatically restarted. Does that mean it is unstable i guess. If so is there other timings i can try?

You have to adjust each parameter at a time and test. Dont try for the tighest timings first go. What are your current timings?


@overanxious,
mem ratio is "MEM CLK Frequency".

Fa1con
08-18-2004, 02:42 PM
My current timings or (defalut) w/e are 2.5-11-14-4-2-14-4-3-1-4. And also are there anything on the Configuration Parameters that i can do to help?