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gabbax
05-17-2004, 04:44 AM
Air, water, compressors , dry ice and liquid nitrogen.

This is some well-known conceptions in cooling for processors today.
Todays processors are getting faster and thus producing more heat
and requires better cooling.

In this article/guide I will try to show some pictures and text that will describe
how to use dry ice or as the right name is CO 2.

I will point out that neither I will not take any responsibility
for any injuries that can occur to persons/hardware.
At -70 degrees Celsius the ice transforms to gas when it melts. As we all
know carbon dioxide is not healthy in vast amounts, so when you use this
method to cool down GPU/CPU make sure that ventilation is sufficent at all times.

The main purpose of this article is to give you overclockers out there some clue how to use dry ice, and what is called to be "extreme cooling" . In this category I will name a few: dry ice, cascade and liquid nitrogen. Using dry ice or as I call it DICE ( Dry Ice) requries some finess and timing.

What you will need first is a receptacle which is to be placed on the CPU/GPU. Preferable in copper because it conducts heat/cold quite good. I will not make any claims for measurements on the receptacle, but what you will be using is the bottom of the container. On that you hardsolder a copper-pipe in sufficent dimensons/length. It should have similar design as a waterblock , aka " fins" which gives broader contactarea which in turn gives better cooling.
Next step is giving right liquid because it will transfer cooling better than pouring DICE directly into the pipe.

At -78 degrees water is out of the question, the same goes for acetone and glycol. I have experience of two liquids, those can be easily purchased at closest gasstation. T-Red or Red ethanol freezes around -85c , the same goes for T-Blue. These shall be concentrated, otherwise they are useless.
Next are T -99.5 which is 99.5 ethanol. I have personally verified these temperatures directly at the manufacturer, sure it can be some minor differences but the temperatures should be correct. The first time I used T-Red which gave good temperatures but not as good as I thought. The reason could be the 5 % water in the T-Red which is reducing the performance, but probably they all are the same. In this particular test I used T- 99.5 which in use will need good ventilation.

If the receptacle has the dimension of 2 " or 50 mm you count 2 " of liquid in the pipe, it is a bit hard to know exactly but count 5-8 cm from the bottom to the edge of the liquid. These numbers are not stated and will need testing.
It will need some feelings when using dry ice, too much liquid leads to less cooling and the same goes for dry ice. Then the cold has nowhere to go, it shall all be measured so it will be a perfect combination of liquid and dry ice.

CPU-Container

http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509108/DIcpu.JPG

http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509108/DIcpu2.JPG

http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509108/DIcpu3.JPG

GFX-Container

http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509108/DIGfx2.JPG

http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509108/DIGfx.JPG

Where do i buy dry ice ?

I do know that AGA in Sweden sells dry ice in " pellets" and in pulleys. The best are pellets because we want a big contact-area. Pulleys are ok but requires crossing.

So what is the price ?

I can not know what your receptacles/containers will cost to produce. If you are skilled then perhaps you will make them yourself and saving some cash. The dry ice here in Sweden is in my opinion cheap in comparison price/performance. I will point out that different stores have different prices so watch out. I personally puchasing no less than 10 kgs of dry ice pellets that is packed in a big box that contains 5kgs of pellets. An aprox price here in Sweden are 400 Sek inc VAT for 10kgs.
http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509112/12.jpg

Performance/Temperature then ?

Because I doesn`t have any external thermometer I was forced to use the BIOS instead. After a while the temperature begins to decrease at the same time I pour down the DI pellets. I archived -35c and that is quite good, but I must point out that the BIOS figures is not to trust. With a compressor I archived -19c so the difference is quite big. The biggest advantage except from the extreme cooling dry ice gives is that it resist the heat from GPU/CPU.
I would say that Dry Ice cooling is way ahead of the compressor cooling in terms of overclocking/benchmarking. I lost just 1c in 32 secs of benching, a compressor looses 5 times of that. This could be the thing that gives you the edge in terms of benching/overclocking.

But what then ? I can`t run Dry Ice 24/7 ??

No that`s right, how would it look with a big truck standing outside your flat constantly ? In that the compressor/air/water cooling wins a big victory. Nah I see Dry Ice as a fun and different way of cooling and cost a fraction of a compressor. And is better for short times of benchmarking/overclocking. The advantage of a compressor is that you will have constant cooling power 24/7.

Consumption ?

Well it all depends, but we are not talking about a mere 10 mins and it is all over. At this try I had 10kgs of Dry Ice and a bottle of T-99.5 and I finished off 6-7kgs in aprox 7 hours of benchmarking and in effective benching ca 4-5 hours. So 10 kgs is enough for a weekend of benchmarking. The thing about Dry Ice is that it vapours by fuming. You will need to use it instantly because the volume is constantly decreasing. If it is cold it will last longer.

Condensation/Isolation

Hehe do I really need to say anything ? :-) If you are going to isolate do it properly. It is probably a no-ending job. I have only isolated the graphics-cards receptacle because of the frost wich in turn can drop onto the motherboard and then.... well do I really need to say ?? I used a black garbagebag, cut out holes for the AGP-slot and the CPU socket. It can " sputter " a bit if you pour too much of Dry Ice, so begin with little and increase slowly. After finished benching/overclocking turn it all off and dismantle the receptacles and canistors from the GPU/CPU, ( be careful because the CPU has a nasty habit of sitting too thight with the receptacle). Loosen all cables etc.... in with the stuff into the OVEN and turn it to 50c and wait ca 1-2hours to avoid any short circuiting.

Ex....of how u can do it

http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509112/2.jpg
http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509112/4.jpg
http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509112/7.jpg
http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509112/8.jpg
http://w1.825.telia.com/~u82509112/9.jpg

Final Words

Well what shall I say ? I´ve tried aircooling, watercooling and TEC/peltier. But Dry Ice is something extra because it requires something extra from you when using it and of-course it is very good cooling-method. It also gives the user a clue how to use the most xtreme ways of cooling todays CPU/GPU:s , i.e LN2/Liquid nitrogen etc...

I just say that if you have the possibility of trying, do it don`t hesitate for a second !!

Some Pics are coming up later this weekend, enjoy!

charlie
05-17-2004, 06:31 AM
nice, well done.

Kunaak
05-18-2004, 02:10 AM
to buy dry ice around the world, heres a huge listing of them.
mainly for america and canada, but it claims a world listing too.
it's helped me many times.

http://www.dryicedirectory.com/

boshi
05-19-2004, 05:37 PM
this method should also work the same for those wanting to try LN2

Evil_Spork
05-19-2004, 09:48 PM
nice setup, though i would consider finding a way to lose the black bag, that would kill your airflow on the mobo and limit your OC.

blinky
05-19-2004, 09:49 PM
hey gabbax, how did u join the copper pipes to the baseplate?

also, how thick is the baseplate on the GPU container?

gabbax
05-20-2004, 10:03 AM
Evil: na, that wont happen, cuz i do have 2 80mm standing just blowing fresh air under Bench session:D (under the Bag;))

Blinky: they are custom made in mashine, a friend did this. the Base @ GFX container are approx:15mm thick, and just over the core it is approx 17mm.

I dont know the word insted of joining

Endre
05-20-2004, 02:11 PM
Nice guide Gabbax :toast:

Join = sette sammen ;)

blinky
05-20-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by gabbax
Evil: na, that wont happen, cuz i do have 2 80mm standing just blowing fresh air under Bench session:D (under the Bag;))

Blinky: they are custom made in mashine, a friend did this. the Base @ GFX container are approx:15mm thick, and just over the core it is approx 17mm.

I dont know the word insted of joining i mean did u glue it or braze/solder it or weld it?

cold_ice
05-21-2004, 01:13 AM
It looks like he brazed it together
@gabbax: helpful guide :)

gabbax
05-21-2004, 02:55 AM
Endre thx m8 im doing my job:D

Blinky Brazed it[/b]

Cold_ice Thx:D

Jos
05-22-2004, 09:14 PM
Nice guide gabbax :)

But can you explain to newbie like me how to prevent condentation on cpu/mobo. Should i use dialectrical grease on cpu/mobo socket ? And about frost, is that conductive ??

Thanks and sorry about my newbie question :)

gabbax
05-23-2004, 07:22 AM
The 2´nd Qs answer is...Na, it ist that when it gets hotter so it becomes "water"(Bad english)

Well, if u do realy care about your rig u should get some Grease/Isolation, but that can be tricky...I dont use it at all...

Jos
05-23-2004, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by gabbax
The 2´nd Qs answer is...Na, it ist that when it gets hotter so it becomes "water"(Bad english)

Well, if u do realy care about your rig u should get some Grease/Isolation, but that can be tricky...I dont use it at all...

So as long it frosty i dont need isolation/grease on my cpu / socket hole (coz frost not conductive) ?
The problem when the frost becomes water ??

DarkManX_BG
05-24-2004, 01:14 AM
Thanks for the tips. Yesterday I found out how cheap dry ice actually is, so now I'm seriously looking for some more info on it... thx again :)

kommando
05-24-2004, 01:49 AM
niicceee, bye bye watercooling im coolign with dry ice when i bench :)

Orak
06-07-2004, 06:38 AM
well done :)

saaya
10-03-2004, 11:41 PM
very nice guide :toast:

Unknown_road
10-04-2004, 02:55 AM
why do you say acetone isn't a good liquid to use?

Epsilon
10-07-2004, 05:30 AM
We had a test with Aceton and ethanol

Aceton has a far better pulldown and thus a better load temp than ethanol.

The exact reason is yet unknown. But the much lower viscosity could be one of the reasons. There will be a test with Ether. Ether has an even lower viscosity than aceton.

Aceton is PERFECTLY useable !!!

gabbax
10-13-2004, 12:54 AM
sorting out the "best" liquid between this 2? on "paper"..in RW its diff, but can someone help me "reading this"? wich one are the better?

http://www.gabbax.org/diverse/etanol.jpg http://www.gabbax.org/diverse/aceton.jpg

MailmaN87
11-02-2004, 06:01 AM
Beutiful guide, just what I needed.
But to put the mobo, gf card and cpu in the oven souned a little scary.

I will soon try to use dry ice at a old gforce mx 420, but I must find a idea to make the container....

Druigard
12-22-2004, 07:02 AM
its not easy
good job friend

chefnr1
12-31-2004, 12:03 AM
Beutiful guide, just what I needed.
But to put the mobo, gf card and cpu in the oven souned a little scary.

I will soon try to use dry ice at a old gforce mx 420, but I must find a idea to make the container....
i can give you an idea! sorry Gabbax that i borrow you're thread :stick:
first of all find a good piece of copper plate and a copper pipe that is not to big for the plate. the plate can be between 10mm to 20mm thick and then you cut out so that the plate is free from surounding components ,check where you have to drill hole for monting screews and macke sure the plate is flat and shiny then take a pipe of copper i use 54mm in diameter and 350mm long and braze it to the cold plate an then insulate it eighter with neopren o armaflex i use armaflex it's easier to work with, for the coldplate inside against to the cpu it's only you'r imaginaton that stops you! here's some pics how i made my tubes :p:
http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=77

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=78

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=80

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=73

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=79

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=101

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=74

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=75

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=76

sorry the text is in swedish but you can se how's it's done anyway :)

Klosti
01-10-2005, 03:32 AM
my setup pics: http://klosterbruder.nitrofusion.de/fotos_von_aktuellen_projekt_phot.htm

Franky 4 Finger
03-09-2005, 09:30 AM
nice guide

Qkjhfhaiguihfma
03-20-2005, 08:52 AM
Hey guys, I noticed some questions about acetone being used. I was always under the impression that this was best. An acetone/dry ice mixture, when stirred to combine forms a "slush" which is apparently 2nd to only something called trichloro-trifluoro-ethylene, or Freon TF. And since apparently you will not be able to get the TF anywhere, acetone should be #1. However note that the fumes still contain acetone, which now adds flamability to your list of dangers, although the cold should reduce your danger level. Here's an article that discusses some of the things I mentioned:

http://yarchive.net/metal/dry_ice.html

For the lazy: Use LN2, it's better in every way..

ChongL
04-27-2005, 04:27 PM
when we want to DIY the container...can we just get a copper block and some piping from home depot and weld it together? I'm just getting started so if this works, I plan to go from here

Thanks!

chefnr1
04-27-2005, 06:43 PM
when we want to DIY the container...can we just get a copper block and some piping from home depot and weld it together? I'm just getting started so if this works, I plan to go from here

Thanks!
yes it's good start make sure the bottom copper block is realy plan so it has a god contact with the core and try to insulate the tube with neopren or armaflex like this for an example..
http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=78

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=79

http://groups.msn.com/chefnr1segenalstersida/torrisochln2tuber.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=74

FireDragon
04-29-2005, 05:07 AM
Nice job I made one last night and tested it with ice and water got 6deg c not to bad for about 10 min worth of work...tonight I am getting some dry ice given my freinds system a run with it. it has been at my house for over 2 mounths and mine is down so I need some fun right?

Dragon

chefnr1
04-29-2005, 09:22 AM
Nice job I made one last night and tested it with ice and water got 6deg c not to bad for about 10 min worth of work...tonight I am getting some dry ice given my freinds system a run with it. it has been at my house for over 2 mounths and mine is down so I need some fun right?

Dragon
cool then you get about -60c instead of +6c big difference and more fun good luck with your DI bench hope you do a good OC :toast:

Jort
04-29-2005, 11:33 AM
Nice job I made one last night and tested it with ice and water got 6deg c not to bad for about 10 min worth of work...tonight I am getting some dry ice given my freinds system a run with it. it has been at my house for over 2 mounths and mine is down so I need some fun right?

Dragon


WATER :stick:

should use alcohol or aceton instead :slapass:

MeltedDuron
07-09-2005, 06:56 PM
jort he was just using normal ice and water to test the blocks conductivity like conrad did when he reviewed a Chilly1 DICE/LN2 container(i want one :D)

mnewxcv
08-17-2005, 09:11 PM
question: what about using dry ice on a chipset?

zub
08-29-2005, 10:21 AM
i was just wondering about that last bit, when you have to dismantle it all and put the cpu into the oven, do you have to do that with phase change cooling aswell?

Waus-mod
08-29-2005, 10:46 AM
why should you put in a oven... it can warm up aswell on youre table etc..

justwOo
08-29-2005, 12:03 PM
Yeah, you definetly need to give acetone more credit in your guide
It's pretty much the cheapest, best, and easily accessable partner to dry ice in the overclocking enviroment
You should also mention that the dry ice/acetone mix bubbles and raises quit a bit under load, not just "randomly does it"

Also, most conventional ovens dont go below -100, so a hair dryer tends to work better, I even made up a little oven turkey roasting pan, that has foam on the bottom, and just a hole for a hair dryer nozzle
Heats up just like an oven, saves alot of power and time though :)

cupra
09-15-2005, 11:32 AM
very nice guide Gabbax , a lot of good info you put there, well done :toast:

eBoy0
09-15-2005, 11:47 AM
I buy DI from my local baskin robbins.

Grave
12-02-2005, 04:46 AM
Was interesting to read. Good job.

PlatoonSgtElias
02-27-2006, 03:35 AM
Here is my first dryice action in January
http://www.zone.ee/wrc2006/1/DryIce_event_2006_January6-7

All that I did was block the air getting to the motherboard and around the CPU and all went ok... Thats like the main thing... if u block the air reaching the mobo and cpu where the dryice is then all shall be fine. If there is a air spot where it can come into then its condensation :P shiznit, Opty had coldbug :P But Venice did not :)

djjcun
03-18-2006, 06:44 PM
Thanks for the tips

C_B
03-24-2006, 10:33 AM
interesting guide
thanx ;)

g0dM@n
05-26-2006, 06:57 AM
this may come in handy for me really soon... great work!

littleowl
06-30-2006, 01:02 PM
Great guide!! I have the chance to play with DICE and I plan to in the next week!! Thanks a million for the great guide!!

Asazman
12-08-2006, 07:35 PM
excellent info, thanks man

vampire338
07-29-2007, 01:39 PM
for some reason the pics aint showing up on my comp. other then that good guide.

skullfcuk
11-30-2007, 03:58 AM
It is an old thread./ However, some good info, as im planning my first journey into the realms of Subzero benching, and i need as much info as i can get. Good guide, thanks;)

TheKarmakazi
02-25-2008, 07:32 AM
I too am planning the subzer0 jump soon...

foR
08-18-2008, 02:56 AM
RE up pics?

bluto
09-22-2008, 08:54 PM
Are all dry ice the same ?Cause I bought some from local grocery and it seemed less dense than how I remember it and now I see on Praxair site they advertise "high density" dice.

HDCHOPPER
10-11-2008, 01:14 PM
wondering that myself my local fry's grocery store has dry ice for sale just a few blocks away
would it be wourth the time and gas to drive 20 miles to downtown to the industrial ice house ??

yokomo
10-22-2008, 12:18 PM
mna you guys are soo lucky ! no way could you just walk in to supermarket over here and by DI !
and if you can please tell me where ive never seen it forsale !