Self-contained water chiller design - with pics

[LuckMan212]

I've been casually researching water chillers over the past few days, as it gets quite hot here in the summer (>105F easily) and my basic W/C setup will not likely be able to keep my CPU <45C in that heat.

Most of the stuff I have seen here involves large/messy setups with lots of exposed pipe and A/C power or just in general setups that take up too much room. While these are very impressive performance wise, they are not really suited to my apartment w/ wife+small kids. I was trying to design something that was somewhat attractive and self-contained, and came up with the following design.

Since I am new to chilling, I would appreciate any comments on this (flaws, problems, etc):

http://www.f2systems.com/files/self_contained_chiller.gif
note: not pictured here are the on/off switches (3 switches: for fan, pump, and compressor)

basically the goal of this is to have a quiet, easy to hide solution that allows simply hooking up normal 1/2" ID Tygon to those inlet/outlet barbs and routing them through some holes drilled in the back of my case.

A few questions:

1) I am not really interested in sub-zero temps-- I don't want to have to deal with a lot of bulky insulation and condensation problems. I am looking for temps in the 10-20C range. Is this possible using chillers or do they always go sub-zero?

2) is the methanol necessary since I am not planning to go sub-zero? (see#1)

3) are any of the aquarium chillers listed HERE (http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_chillers__index.asp?CartId=) up to this task? they are expensive but it would be worth it for the size and eliminating the hassle of ripping apart a fridge or air conditioner in my apartment :p:

4) Could something like this be used to cool multiple computers in a daisy chain?

5) How maintenance free do you think something like this would be? Do you think there would be too much evaporation, and how often would the refrigerant need to be changed? I am looking for something that can be run continuously for 6 months or more without maintenance.

comments?:rolleyes:

[Blergo]

1/ you dont have a condensor in that pic?

2/ not 100% sure but i think lexan will become britle at low temps?

3/ if you want to cool multiple pc's u will need a fairly large condensor.
owen

[LuckMan212]

ok sorry I am a noob obviously... where does the condensor fit into the above pic? and do I need a radiator in there too?

as for the lexan becoming brittle, I am not planning to go much below +10C so I am pretty sure the lexan could be fine up to -20 or -30C right?

[Gary Lloyd]

Check this out:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33056

I can build a similar unit which will maintain near ambient to near 0C temps, or anywhere in between, if that's what you want.

[LuckMan212]

wow!! :banana: amazing, how did I miss that...

yeah, um please sign me up for one of those!! how can I order one? how would a unit that operates at near-ambient temps differ from the "standard" ones that you were making for -50C temps? Is there some way I could later modify my unit to go sub-zero, or is there some thermostat I could adjust, etc?

thanks!

[Çhrist0ph]

Gary to the rescue!

:toast:

[Gary Lloyd]

yeah, um please sign me up for one of those!! how can I order one? how would a unit that operates at near-ambient temps differ from the "standard" ones that you were making for -50C temps? Is there some way I could later modify my unit to go sub-zero, or is there some thermostat I could adjust, etc?


I modify these for best performance at a specific heat load and temperature. If you later want a much lower temp, it would take further mods, but can be done. However, the unit will not handle multiple computers (heavy heat loads) at lower temps. At higher temps, such as you currently want, it can handle very high heat loads. These little beauties have a 1/2 HP compressor.

PM me for ordering info.

[LuckMan212]

PM me for ordering info
ok, you got it, thanks!:D

P.S.- couple of more quick questions that I thought I should ask publicly:

1) I was thinking of using THIS (http://tinyurl.com/2j34t) Tubing (Tygon R1000 Peristaltic pump tubing) -- because of its max low temp of -103F. This is way more than normal Tygon R3603 which I think becomes brittle at -57F or around there. Would this be good stuff to use?

edit: you may have to click the link a couple of times--- usplastics website is a little weird...

2) I assume some people mount these right in their windows, but due to the distance of my window from the computer, I don't think this is practical because of the added strain on the pump with ~20' of tubing. Do you think I could just sit this thing on the floor?:rolleyes:

[Gary Lloyd]

Sitting it on the floor is no problem at all, but there are advantages to putting it in a window.

For as powerful as it is, it is relatively quiet, but in the window the compressor and fan are outdoors, so it is virtually silent.

When you remove heat from your computer, it is dumped into your computer room. In the window, it is dumped outdoors. This gives you a noticeably cooler computer room.

In the window, when the weather is cool, mother nature gives the chiller a substantial performance boost.

[LuckMan212]

Yes I would really like to put it in the window.... but how are other people overcoming the limitations of tube length/pump flow? I thought most pumps kind of "maxed out" at around 10ft. of tubing. There is about 4ft of tubing just inside my computer case. Mounting this thing in the nearest window would add at least another 25-30ft to that loop. Don't think there are too many pumps that can move that much liquid.

[chilly1]

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=USPlastic&category%5Fname=Clearance+Tubing+and+Fittings&product%5Fid=PFA+Teflon%AE+Tubing

Same company check this our 5/16 id though rated at -268°C to + 260°C

[LuckMan212]

yeah but looks like they only have 50' of it left?? and, it is much less flexible than the Tygon. Besides... there's no way I am getting down below -103F, the pump would fail way before the tubing at those temps...

[KennethChong]

Originally posted by LuckMan212



1) I am not really interested in sub-zero temps-- I don't want to have to deal with a lot of bulky insulation and condensation problems. I am looking for temps in the 10-20C range. Is this possible using chillers or do they always go sub-zero?



You would still have to insulate if your running at that range, and probly the same ammount as if you were getting sub zero temps, so it might be the best to just go for the lower temps.

[Gary Lloyd]

Yes I would really like to put it in the window.... but how are other people overcoming the limitations of tube length/pump flow? I thought most pumps kind of "maxed out" at around 10ft. of tubing. There is about 4ft of tubing just inside my computer case. Mounting this thing in the nearest window would add at least another 25-30ft to that loop. Don't think there are too many pumps that can move that much liquid.


Finding a pump for long distance is no problem at all. There are pumps designed for heating/cooling your house with hot/chilled water that can easily do the job. It is when we get into pumping subzero liquids that this becomes more complex. Nonetheless there are very powerful (and expensive) pumps available for this, too. Its a matter of what liquid, how far, how high, and how cold.

[Çhrist0ph]

Originally posted by KennethChong
You would still have to insulate if your running at that range, and probly the same ammount as if you were getting sub zero temps, so it might be the best to just go for the lower temps.

KC is right. The second you go below ambient, you're gonna have to insulate everything. In your position, id go balls to the walls and get one of gary's coldest chillers, a beefy pump, and insulate it all. But of course, that is a more expensive route.

[Gary Lloyd]

Yep, anything below ambient should have at least light insulation. The next magic line is subzero, where things start to get complicated. Then there is below -40C, where they really get complicated. Cold ain't easy, or cheap.

If you want to chill two computers at once, we can tune for a higher heat load at a higher temp, or kick it up to a 1 HP compressor, and go balls to the wall on both computers.

[LuckMan212]

so does anyone have any links to threads/sites about how to properly insulate around the CPU/northbridge when using such a setup? (i.e, what sort of foam/dielectric to use, how much & where to put it, what to watch out for, etc...) sorry if these are dumb questions.:rolleyes:

also if anyone has any specific suggestions as to models or manufacturers of pumps that can run pumping glycol or methanol at -40C through about 40feet of 1/2" ID tubing for continuous operation, please let me know. Someone suggested an Iwaki but I am not sure those are up to this challenge.

I also considered a VapoLS as an alternative but I think Gary's chiller offers more flexibility:

* Gary's mounts in window so it can take advantage of cold outside temps to assist cooling
* Gary's uses less power (I think)
* Gary's can be used to cool multiple machines and/or blocks where the Vapo can only cool a single CPU
* Gary's is more "future proof" in that all you have to replace is your waterblocks in the event of new CPU die sizes, mounting mechanisms,etc, with Vapo who knows if they will have new "heads"
* Vapo is almost $1000

[kayl]

ever though of using tec system
another option if you hant to go around room temps, and not worry about going below 0deg, if setup correctly

[LuckMan212]

condensation is still a problem with TECs, no? would I be able to add a TEC to my existing W/C loop (see sig) -- or what would I need to add to handle the additional heat?

[kayl]

arr no you have the dangerden RBX and i dont think have holes for cold plate.

a choice of a lower powered tec and adjusted o/c to keep idle temperature to a desired level

a dual radioator with good flow should be ok