Xtreme Liquid

[JWB]

Alot of people ask what liquid is the best to use in their chillers, especially for -40 and below. Well I came across an article in Custom PC (UK Only). It was a review of an Amari T800-LQX with koolance cooling. The liquid it uses is called 3M Flurinert PF5080 and is a perdluracarbon which is used in super computers (The Cray T90 for one ($39million)). What is good about this liquid is that it freezes at -180C, yes celsius! An even better thing is that it is not electrically conductive and Custom PC actually got one of their old pc's and poured this stuff on it and it was still working with it on! They rebooted and check and it was fine:eek:

Armari is considering selling this stuff in 500ml bottles. But the bad thing is it will cost £54 (around $98 US, $128.6 Canadian):(

The review is on page 32 to 33 ans is in issue 8.

I will try and find an internet link for you guys:D

EDIT:

Armari system link

http://www.armari.com/system.asp?SysID=173

[Miles_Teg]

JWB,

Most waterchilling guys that visit these forums regularly know about the Fluorinert line of coolants from 3M. Sure, the stuff rocks, but at a price pretty much no one is willing to pay. Waterchillers often contain several liters (or gallons) of coolant, and some types of fluorinert cost up to $3000 / L.

To speak for myself; I messed around with different common (mixed) coolants, and found that differences in thermal conductivity barely make any difference in real life. So I'm working with 100% concentrated windshield wiper fluid now. Goes down to -70°C, and doesn't create foam (no soapy additive).

[JWB]

Originally posted by Miles_Teg


To speak for myself; I messed around with different common (mixed) coolants, and found that differences in thermal conductivity barely make any difference in real life.

I'm not saying it will, but would windscreen wiper fluid damage your comp if it sprung a leak? or is that non conductive (electrically)?

[Keeper]

I just got off the phone with Rob at 3-M and the PF5050 is $14.80 a lb, reclaimed PF5050 can be had for $11 and some change a lb. You got to remember this stuff is heavy, so were looking at 11 lbs. a gallon so if you have a 3 gallon reservoir your looking at $522 for virgin PF. In the Southwest U.S. you can go direct to the source call 1-800-772-8179 ask for Rob and tell him Keeper sent you.

[JWB]

Cheers keeper:D but there is two slight snags, one I do not live in the US, two I do not have the $$$:mad: Thanks anyway;) Is anti-freeze or ethonol (spelling?) electrically conductive, or will it be ok if some goes on my mobo for instance?

Thanks

[Keeper]

I don't recommend anti-freeze, you can get pure Methanol or Denatured alcohol at any paint shop, pure Ethanol can be found at a boat shop or drag-racing shops. Anti-freeze is way too thick when it gets cold.

I don't know the conductivity of these liquids, but do recommend an absolutely leak free setup. I have never had a drop escape any of my liquid setups.

[Gary Lloyd]

You got to remember this stuff is heavy, so were looking at 11 lbs. a gallon so if you have a 3 gallon reservoir your looking at $522 for virgin PF.

My little compact chiller evaps may provide an answer. They hold ounces, not gallons.

[JWB]

I heard they cool well Gary, So even with a evap that small with not so much liquid will cool alot better than a larger evap with more liquid (methonol for instance:D )? If so are you going to start to sell them?

EDIT: good idea about the fluorinert btw:D the would be cool (pun intended, lol)

EDIT again: Keeper which of the two do you use and what temp have yoy got it at?

[Keeper]

I use Denatured Alcohol; my block maintains -20C + or - 1degree depending on weather, CPU -1C @3006MHz under load (folding).

[JWB]

I cannot wait, this weekend I break up from college and then I'm gonna try and buy a 3000 a64 and I think a K8N-Pro and try and find a cooler and when I have time in the six weeks holidays buy it build it, which I could not quite get my head round what everything was until Gary added a link to refrigeration basics (thanks Gary :D ) and it seems quite simple now, apart from the tuning, but I will have to see about that.

Yeah Keeper real good temps -1 at 3GHz:) . I have been in the minuses before but that involved sitting next to my wide open window at night and chilling my self too, lol. It got me -5 board and -3 cpu though ( Ileft it off for two hours next to the window and then turned it on):D .

[Gary Lloyd]

I heard they cool well Gary, So even with a evap that small with not so much liquid will cool alot better than a larger evap with more liquid (methonol for instance )? If so are you going to start to sell them?


Hopefully soon. The problem is that I keep thinking of improvements. That can be a neverending thing... LOL

[JWB]

lol, I know what you mean it happens alot on hardware, someone has something that is more than fast enough but want something faster just to bench with, it mad. so what is it down to now, or any improvements? or is it still erm what was it 5" x 5" x 1.25"? Oh yeah you have made a chiller to test it right that is at -51C (no load), have you flattend the cap tube or anything? Oh and one last thing lol, was that temp with a better outer jacket?

[Gary Lloyd]

Actually that temp was with the first version of the chiller evap. It's huge by comparison, 10" x 15" x 2". I'm debating whether or not to sell it as is, and then get a new window A/C for testing each new version of the chiller evap. What do you think? That way I could make a few bucks while continuing the improvements.

Anyone want to buy a -51C window A/C chiller? PM me. :D

Flatten the cap tube? No, I replaced it, and converted it to R408A.

[JWB]

How much would it be for, isn't that a really good temp as it is? I may want it but I really need a smaller one.

[Gary Lloyd]

Yes, that's a very good temp. I'm not sure I trust shipping across the pond, and a window A/C is pretty heavy, too. I'm hoping someone local will buy it and drive over and pick it up.

Sooner or later I will build a mini-chiller. I've been thinking of ways to shrink everything. While everyone has been focussing on the big picture, I've been thinking small. :D

BTW, I don't think we are allowed to mention prices in here. Anyone interested should PM me.

[JWB]

Ok, it will be more fun making my own and will make me learn from my own mistakes too:D Yea I really want a smaller one so that I can use that stuff above. I just hope I pick a good chiller with long pipes that cools really well.

[Gary Lloyd]

Shipping just the chiller evap would be no problem, then. :D

[JWB]

lol, wont an evap be hard to connect? because if you sell them I will prob buy one, hopefully get good temps and with little liquid needed compared to normal evaps :D

[Gary Lloyd]

No harder than any other evap to connect. :D

[JWB]

So does that involve brazing? or is there a simpler way you can connect them? It would be an excuse to regas the system with something better too.

[Gary Lloyd]

Brazing is best.

[kingsack]

Originally posted by JWB
I'm not saying it will, but would windscreen wiper fluid damage your comp if it sprung a leak? or is that non conductive (electrically)?

It fried my A7N8X-D when I sprang a leak.
On the other hand it gave mean an excuse to switch to a DFI LanParty NF2 Ultra B :banana: so it wasn't all bad. LOL

[kingsack]

Originally posted by Keeper
I don't recommend anti-freeze, you can get pure Methanol or Denatured alcohol at any paint shop, pure Ethanol can be found at a boat shop or drag-racing shops. Anti-freeze is way too thick when it gets cold.

I don't know the conductivity of these liquids, but do recommend an absolutely leak free setup. I have never had a drop escape any of my liquid setups.

The only problems with pure alcohols is the VERY low Flashpoint.
If you normally leave your system running 24/7/365 even when unattended you may come home to find you don't have one LOL. :explode:

FYI - the compressor in your chiller will provide an excellent ignition source for the alcohol vapors!

[lucid]

Originally posted by JWB
I'm not saying it will, but would windscreen wiper fluid damage your comp if it sprung a leak? or is that non conductive (electrically)?

Just ordered gallon of the stuff. We will see what happens :P

[OCme]

Is anyone using dynalene or the orange oil "d-Limonene" as heat transfer liquid in their chillers? If so, please share your likes and /or dislikes of the liquid you are using as well as the temps you are using it at.

[snowwie]

i thought fluorinert gets viscious at low temps too, just like antifreeze

i may be wrong

for below -40c temps ethanol is probably best, i guess

[Slickthellama]

yeah it does get viscous.