LN2 Guys all Over the Place

[OPPAINTER]

Must be some kind of LN2 war, they never use to publish there 3D scores, The LN2 guys are all over the First Page. I'll show them how it's done Next week:D

OPP

[Klosterbruder]

I'm waiting for it.

[Sampsa]

I already posted to another thread but anyway.

We did first LN2-test with Kamu today and the result was R300 GPU running at 455MHz and memory running at 365MHz.

We were able to push the P4 2,4GHz CPU to 3917MHz.

The next step is to modify Vgpu and Vmem mods and add LN2 cooling to DDR-memory.

I think we might push the CPU a little bit further > 3970MHz.

Stay tuned ... :)

Some pics:

http://www.muropaketti.com/bench/r300_ln2/

ORB:

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4532128

For some reason Powerstrip refused to go above 457MHz (GPU). And the Rage3D Tweaker limit was 420MHz. Any suggestions? :)


Oppainter, good luck with your LN2-tests.

[Klosterbruder]

I'm curios if Holichos will topped this weekend.

[PiLsY]

Sampsa,

Check the powerstrip sticky at the top of the forum.

Id suggest setting rage3d tweak to 420mhz, then upping further with powerstrip.

method...

Do NOT have powerstrip loaded.
Load up rage overclocker, set core only to 420mhz.
Load up powerstrip.
Set core to 460 say and memory to your stable max.

You should then be able to bump the core up using powerstrip until you hit your limit.

PiLsY.

[OPPAINTER]

Sampsa,

Great Idea about the LN on the memory, these cards get great score improvements with higher memory.
Like Philsy said check the Sticky to get PS to go further.

OPP

[Creative]

Originally posted by OPPAINTER
I'll show them how it's done Next week:D

OPP

YOU GO GIRL :D

Also with what you said about the memory OPP, I agree cos I was getting 127fps in Nature with it at 365 on the memory but I cranked it up to 370, got minor tearing, but the fps went up to 130. Unfortunantly anything above 365 tears seariously after 5-10mins of 3dmark.

Yer the core helps as well but for those last few points upping the memory helped most, whereas upping the core just froze 3dmark.

Good luck you crazy hardcore LN2 guys :banana:

[Sampsa]

A small article of R9700 Pro and Ln2 cooling can be found here:

http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cooling/r300_ln2/

Lots of pictures and a small English Summary. Take a look.

:)

[OPPAINTER]

Great stuff there Sampsa!!

OPP

[fredperry]

Originally posted by Sampsa
A small article of R9700 Pro and Ln2 cooling can be found here:

http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cooling/r300_ln2/

Lots of pictures and a small English Summary. Take a look.

:)
Nice article :)

[OPPAINTER]

Almost had you Sampsa:D

The bugger froze on me when I went to save it.

OPP

[JCviggen]

heh, that sucks almost as hard as getting kicked to the desktop in the final seconds of the last test when you can see you're on a killer run ;)

at least you had a digicam near

[Sampsa]

Nice Oppainter :)

What did you improve to gain few extra marks?

I'll let you fool around a little bit and then I'll take Holicho down :)

[Sampsa]

BTW, nice graphics erros on the screen :D

[MrIcee]

OPP:)

Nice effort on that lost bench...keep up your as always excellent benching prowess and I'm certain you'll even surpass that excellent effort soon...hats off to you my man !:toast:

Randi:D

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Sampsa
BTW, nice graphics erros on the screen :D

From my dig camara then when I put the pic in hyper snap to crop it to fit the forums it gets mess up, I think it is the Hyper Snap proggy, the original picture looks good.

I don't no why I was getting better scores, I hadn't been in my benching OS in a while, i was geting 280 plus in low Car all day yesterday, the system needed a rest so I desided to Defrag and have it ready for the next session, when I fired her up later after the defrag the damn scores are worse, defrag killed my OS.
O'Well, I got a 20367 published out of her before the OS was shot:D

OPP

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Sampsa
BTW, nice graphics erros on the screen :D

Fixed:D

[Sampsa]

uhhuh :)

Team Japan just let me know that from now on they will be #1 in ORB. They'll hunt down everyone who surpasses Holicho :)

Here is the msg:

Hello Sampsa
>>Next we are aiming to 21500 (^_^)
Mr. Holicho said that he would look forward to catching up the record. Team Japan strives aiming at a further record day and night. The team in Japan is Holicho,Son,Omega,Tamo, and JA0HXV.

Regard JA0HXV.

:-)

[PiLsY]

Hmm I hope it doesnt head this way.

Ive got no intention of benching my heart out on phase change (had to get that due to tweaking hell out of my system and still only hitting page 2) just to be stuck down on page 2 or 3 again due to loads of LN2 scores.

Its getting ridiculous now. LN2 is going too far. While, like everyone else I can respect the balls it takes to pour LN2 onto your cpu, you cant fail but admit its an "easy" route out. Theres no tweaking involved, just pour, play and pray. Not a particularly skilled route imho.

Im not trying to offend anyone here, but the point in my eyes (and those of many others) is to take a day to day use pc, hammer the crap out of it and stick up a huge score. The speeds I bench at are within 2fsb and about 10mhz gpu/memory on the gfx of my day to day settings.

Its going far too extreme now - 3D Mark has always been more like touring car racing than formula 1, but now that seems to be changing. PCs only suitable for short sprints of 5 minutes or so before falling over.

If team japan already has 5 people benching on LN2, then you add in finland and the soon to be other teams no doubt youre looking at the top 10 - 20 places filled by LN2 guys. I dont think theres much room left for the likes of Team Xtreme where we run day to day PCs.

Im also not suggesting these guys shouldnt bench - by all means they should!. Madonion needs to come up with some sort of division based thing for all the teams out there so we can split off the "sprinter" from the "long-distance" user. Otherwise there willbe little point in the likes of myself bothering to bench for a team. Never in a million years will I be playing with LN2 or anything along those lines, so never in a million years will I be able to compete with the simplest tom, :banana::banana::banana::banana: or harry who can get their mitts on a cylinder of LN2. I could spend literally hours tweaking and still not get within a thousand points of holicho's score as is. If this turns into an LN2/Dry Ice competition those scores can only go up.

Apologies if ive offended anyone by this, its certainly not my intention. For the record i'll state again that I have nothing but respect for anyone who has the balls to stick a cup of LN2 on their cpu/gfx card and run 3dmark - thats pure commitment. However, I can only see it being to the detriment of us "semi-xtremers".

PiLsY.

[majormav]

Originally posted by PiLsY
Hmm I hope it doesnt head this way.

Ive got no intention of benching my heart out on phase change (had to get that due to tweaking hell out of my system and still only hitting page 2) just to be stuck down on page 2 or 3 again due to loads of LN2 scores.

Its getting ridiculous now. LN2 is going too far. While, like everyone else I can respect the balls it takes to pour LN2 onto your cpu, you cant fail but admit its an "easy" route out. Theres no tweaking involved, just pour, play and pray. Not a particularly skilled route imho.

Im not trying to offend anyone here, but the point in my eyes (and those of many others) is to take a day to day use pc, hammer the crap out of it and stick up a huge score. The speeds I bench at are within 2fsb and about 10mhz gpu/memory on the gfx of my day to day settings.

Its going far too extreme now - 3D Mark has always been more like touring car racing than formula 1, but now that seems to be changing. PCs only suitable for short sprints of 5 minutes or so before falling over.

If team japan already has 5 people benching on LN2, then you add in finland and the soon to be other teams no doubt youre looking at the top 10 - 20 places filled by LN2 guys. I dont think theres much room left for the likes of Team Xtreme where we run day to day PCs.

Im also not suggesting these guys shouldnt bench - by all means they should!. Madonion needs to come up with some sort of division based thing for all the teams out there so we can split off the "sprinter" from the "long-distance" user. Otherwise there willbe little point in the likes of myself bothering to bench for a team. Never in a million years will I be playing with LN2 or anything along those lines, so never in a million years will I be able to compete with the simplest tom, :banana::banana::banana::banana: or harry who can get their mitts on a cylinder of LN2. I could spend literally hours tweaking and still not get within a thousand points of holicho's score as is. If this turns into an LN2/Dry Ice competition those scores can only go up.

Apologies if ive offended anyone by this, its certainly not my intention. For the record i'll state again that I have nothing but respect for anyone who has the balls to stick a cup of LN2 on their cpu/gfx card and run 3dmark - thats pure commitment. However, I can only see it being to the detriment of us "semi-xtremers".

PiLsY. i came back from honeymoon and saw what happened to the first page and i must admit i wanted to post a similar one to the one you posted pilsy but it was finding the correct words to do it without offending anyone ... I agree with what you have said and i admire the guys for doing it and would love to see the bench in action but it is way out of the normal benchers reach ..... even the ones with pelts and water wont get near LN2 congrats you guys .... any links to a videoed bench so we can all see it ?....

[JCviggen]

yeah I cant say I am very happy with this evolution either. Before they always had the sort of "common decency" to only save screenshots rather than publish their scores on the ORB. But if they want war, they can get it :D
Team Xtreme is what the name says, and if extreme is what they want, its what they will get.... I do have access to LN2 ... and I believe when it comes to gfx card overclocking and windows tweaking we can have a few aces up our sleeves.

[bmg]

Pilsy I tend to agree with you, but I don't know of any workable solution. There's really no way to have different categories (LN2, normal phase change, etc), since 3DMark has no way of determining that type of information. A possibility is to make the 3DMark score that's actually submitted something that takes at least 20-30 minutes to run and must be done with no pauses between tests. That might eliminate some "gimmicky" systems. I personally like that possibility. Of course while we consider things like phase change as "normal", others might not agree, much as some of us dislike competing against LN2 systems. If normal phase change (I say normal, since LN2 could be considered as an extreme form of phase change) is eventually only good enough to get someone to page two or lower, is it really worth the cost and effort for that extra 10% or so of cpu performance? I can hit 3400+ mhz just by chilling my normal water cooling setup to only +10C. Normal phase change like the Prometeia will get me to around 3700 if I'm lucky. Is phase change really worth it if it still gives you no chance of getting to page one even with extreme cooling and mods on the video card? Getting to the top has always meant pushing beyond what most people are willing or able to do. Now that normal phase change systems are becoming mainstream, it looks like LN2 is now taking over the role that normal phase change once filled.

This is sure to be a somewhat controversial topic.

[Sampsa]

Heh heh, I knew this had to come sooner or later. Try to guess how many times I've heard using LN2 is not fair?

Well, I've started serious overclocking about 4 years ago at the same time I started http://www.muropaketti.com which is at the moment largest hardware & overclocking site in Finland

First was of course air cooling. I can tell you 4 years ago there wasn't very good air cooling solutions for Slot 1 Celeron so I ordered Alpha P125C from Japan. I paid to them and they shipped one for me to Finland. Maybe after a year Alpha products came more popular.

Second step was water cooling with peltier and back then I was able to push my Celeron 366MHz to 550MHz. I played with this cooling solution some time after I deciced to test dry ice (-79C degrees) and the results were quite impressive.

The next step was of course LN2 and now I'm using it because it's definitely the most powerful cooling method available.

---

I think Vapochill or Prometeia are actually alot easier to use in 3DMark than LN2. It's a very short period of time you can do the actual tests. Very often the system gets too cold and you have to stop the tests and dry the components.

With compressor based cooling you have all day to test and tweak the highest frequencies and settings. With LN2 you have to tweak them but you have very little time to do that.

Pilsy said cooling with LN2 is just to pour, play and pray. I have to disagree. Please try to cool your system with LN2 and actually make a high score.. it's not that easy. We have now a couple of years experience from LN2 and every time we learn something new about the components and their limits.

---

the CEO of Madonion is actually very good friend of mine and we have talked many times about LN2 cooling and 3DMark2001.

Where does it say what cooling methods are "legal" to use? Or where does it say that the system has to be up 24/7.

I'm quite sure for example that OPPAINTER isn't using the settings 24/7 that scored 20369 for him... right?

After all, it's just a benchmark to test your system's performance. Why to race with bicycle when you can use ferrari? If you want to be in TOP10, you MUST have the best equipment. With LN2 this is possible.

:)

[Charles Wirth]

At the moment there are not too many LN2 machines, they do not bother me at all.

Xtremesystems holds almost half the page 1 entries.

[OPPAINTER]

Originally posted by Sampsa
I'm quite sure for example that OPPAINTER isn't using the settings 24/7 that scored 20369 for him... right?

After all, it's just a benchmark to test your system's performance. Why to race with bicycle when you can use ferrari? If you want to be in TOP10, you MUST have the best equipment. With LN2 this is possible.

:)

As far as 24/7 I have to turn down my FSB by 1Mhz, 172, this is stable all day. The card on the other had only gets overclocked when Benching.

Theres not much we can do about the LN2 guys publishing their scores so the only thing to do would be to Join them and go Xtreme/Xtreme.
I picked up some Cpu mounting base plates from Swiftech Thursday, this week I will have a container mounted on them then it's all about taking down the Japanese in the name of Xtreme,,,, hopefully:D if you can't beat them join them.:D

OPP

[DDTUNG]

My comment on LN2, which I made some time ago before this debate started, is that it's lab stuff.

But that's just my 2 cents.:)

If someone could come up with a mini system to regenerate the LN2, it's a different story.

DDTUNG:cool:

[MrIcee]

You go OPP:)

My feelings are the same as Pilsys, bmg, majormav and others. The Prometeia will be the most xtreme I'll be going with my system. I don't have the desire to procure the licensing, the fee's and construct a safe room away from my family to play with the stuff. I said this on another thread and I'll say it again...with the upcoming AMD cpu's coming..I believe I can play in the top 10 or better with the LN2 runners...and I'll be doing my best in the future to do so:D

OPP...good luck in your benching...the team awaits your LN2 experiments:)

Randi:D

Heres another thought...when did the top guys stop running the whole bench?? It had always been MO etiquette for a legit score to be the complete bench. I've had my balls busted for not running the whole bench when I was in test mode. I just combed thru the top 10 scores and no one except FUGGER and I completed the bench(nor quite a few below me). It had always been said that running the whole bench separated the stable from the pretenders...lets set a team precedent here and have our team members complete the bench from now on....I think we need to lead by example here. macci and Gibbo and all the top benchers over the years ALWAYS ran the whole bench...and why?? It not only shows your ultimate performance but also your system to be stable and worthy of the spot you attained in the standings. Lets get back to it....most of us use our everyday systems for benching...lets set the standard once again.:)

[Creative]

First of all I will agree with MrIcee about the tests being run. I am guilty of just running the first 4 lately too. Its a MUST that you run all tests to be a member of the OCAU 3dmark team and here I am, the captain, not leading by example :( From now on you have my word that I will get the score, save it, and then run the last few tests. Offcourse there is then the temptation to save the record score, drop your vid card OC speeds, and then run the last few tests.....but we wouldnt do that now would we ;)

LN2 cooling imo is in another class. I have also commented about this in another thread too. I pride myself on being able to pull these scores from an everyday running machine, not some machine that gets turned on for 10 mins then must be shutdown for 4 hours before it can be run again.

Vapochill is the most extreme I will go. Id get Prometia but we cant get it in Australia so Vapo it will be. But after the Vapo, where to then? Nowhere probably cos the Vapo will last for ages and ages probably.....:)


Thats my opinion and dont get me wrong, I respect you LN2 guys for what you do, but how can you even compare your scores to ours when you have that HUGE advantage by using LN2. :)

BENCH ON SUCKAS :banana:

[dmitriyaz]

LN2, eh?
have fun.
i, myself, will never use LN2 or dry ice because IMHO, its pointless to go through that much trouble to have a computer that is not even good for checking your email every morning.
i dont think it even falls into "PC" category any more.
but than again, who am i to say this? :slap:

[Hiwayman]

So team Japan are throwing down the gauntlet then, to all of us I guess, even semi-indpendents like myself.

Damn, it's sooo tempting to try and do something about that :D

Have you noticed that LN2 benches never get the same clock/point ratio as more conventional methods of cooling.

With a better mobo and 9700 I'm sure I can get by son's 20,285. Opp is already ahead with 150MHz less and running DDR *only* at 231.

And also they'll not want to run full benches including all the tests because of the difficulties involving handling LN2 and the much shorter life of components inlolved.

Maybe we can dent their pride enough to make them go away. :D

BTW if MO maintain a MHz limit on ORB this could be away of applying a handicap on LN2 Benches.

Finally Sampsa and my other Finnish friends please don't take this personally I think that you guys do a great job:)

[Marci]

Is it worth suggesting to Madonion to add an optional filter so that you can select cooling method from a list... eg:

Air
Air & Pelt
Water
Water & Pelt
Phase-Change
LN2 / DryIce

Perhaps handy for l8r versions of 3DMark... then at least we have the option of temporarily removing them from the orb...

[KAIN]

Madonion make their major money from the Analyser aspect of 3dmark. Adding something extra for people to fill in isn't really needed.

[PiLsY]

Sampsa - dont get me wrong m8, I never said it wasnt "fair" in the sense you seem to be implying at all. I am merely saying that there is no possiblity at all of anyone who isnt on LN2 or dry Ice competeing with you. I am also DEFINITELY not saying that your benches arent legal.

The only thing I was proposing was for madonion to start "divisions" for want of a better word based on either overall score . It would give people like myself and pretty much anyone else here to still get some sort of sense of achievement which we dont get now from spending hours to simply get on page 2. Something like using cut offs on scores. Sub 10k as div 3, Sub 15k as div 2, Sub 20k as div 1 and over 20k as premier league. This would still give us alls omething to aim for, you gus for the top places in premier division and everyone else gunning for top spots in division 1 or even "promotion" to premier league. I think this sort of thing would be a fantastic development for MO - itd certainly promote the Teams more than ever before. You could of course still maintain the standard ORB as well for everyone not in a team. Some sort of registration for your team via project manager. This could lead onto all sorts of bigger and better things such as stat pages for teams and an overall standings table team wise (much the same as the fastest webmasters chart), where the entire teams scores get added together for each division and an average taken to compare with every other team.

I am certainly not saying LN2 "isnt fair" or "illegal". Its just different, but different in such a way that it precludes anyone not on identical cooling to compete really.

I am also guilty of only running the game tests - although for a different reason. I tweak my system like hell improving the score all along the way, but dont bother running a full bench until im maxed out :). As soon as my score wont be going any higher due to hardware then a full bench goes up. I dont see the point in taking the extra 5 - 10 minutes ot run a full bench when youll only pass that score the next day or earlier.

PiLsY.

[fredperry]

It seems to me LN2 is just the next step. Like phase-change is the next step when you've done playing with watercooling and peltiers.

You need LN2 (unless your name is OPPAINTER, Macci, JC or MrIcee) to be @ the top, but if you want to be on the first page, you need phase-change, so for people who aircool, phase-change is too extreme and makes it impossible to rank higher.

3DMark won't be able to recognize the type of cooling you use, but maybe they can build something in that analyses the temperature. And with the temps you can form divisions by temp

-60°C and below is extreme division/league (dry ice and LN2)
-10°C till -60°C is another division (phase-change)
...

(just a thought)

[PiLsY]

Possible on the temp sensor.

Anyway, I dont believe LN2 is the next step at all. Phase change is still 24/7 use, LN2 is not.

Its like comparing a dragster with a touring car. One is designed to go for a mile as fast as possible, the other for several hundred miles without huge running costs or major maintenance. I fully admit the way we push our systems shortens the life expectancy, but only down to a couple of years or so. LN2 rigs are simply incapable of running for day to day use. Theyre not a PC anymore really. Its a case of having a system designed to do one thing and one thing only, and even then only for 10 minutes at a time. It takes a lot of preparation and a lot of hard work to get that super quick 10 minutes, but 10 minutes is still 10 minutes.

Now the way to look at things is every other "competitive" system out there has rankings to take things like this into account - the ORB does not. Its a case of either madonion need to change it a little to improve things or a hell of a lot of team members from various different tems will up and quit. Afterall its just not worth benching for days on end to get to page 2 or lower really is it?

PiLsY.

[fredperry]

If you'd look at my sig, you'd know what I prefer ;)

Idd, for every day use phase-change is the most extreme.
And I'd like a sort of seperate division for LN2 too.

And to use your comparison to the autoworld, for some people it isn't anymore about the car, but about the points.
3DMark isn't anymore about the benchmark, but about the points.
(3DMark is, as far as I know, a bench tot test the 3D performance of your system, now tell me how many 3DMarkers use their benchsystem for gaming or 3DMax studio?)
Is this a bad thing? no, not really, not for me.

[Hiwayman]

Hey Pilsy M8,

If the Finns declare war on you lot it's gonna be all your fault.:banana: :lol:

[AndrOvr]

ITs very unlikely that MAD. will ever put a "temp" filter...
There's mobos that wont read temps lower than 0 others lower than -40c I think...

[majormav]

Originally posted by MrIcee
You go OPP:)

Heres another thought...when did the top guys stop running the whole bench?? It had always been MO etiquette for a legit score to be the complete bench. I've had my balls busted for not running the whole bench when I was in test mode. I just combed thru the top 10 scores and no one except FUGGER and I completed the bench(nor quite a few below me). It had always been said that running the whole bench separated the stable from the pretenders...lets set a team precedent here and have our team members complete the bench from now on....I think we need to lead by example here. macci and Gibbo and all the top benchers over the years ALWAYS ran the whole bench...and why?? It not only shows your ultimate performance but also your system to be stable and worthy of the spot you attained in the standings. Lets get back to it....most of us use our everyday systems for benching...lets set the standard once again.:) as you requested from us Randi .. im back from getting married and honeymoon and doing my first benching session

http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4562219

hopefully some more points tonight

[Sampsa]

FYI,

I have a different computer for checking my e-mail and playing games. It's not even overclocked since I'm doing my work with it. P4 2,53GHz and Ti4600 is pretty much enough for todays games. Schumacher isn't driving around with F1 Ferrari when he isn't racing.. I think he has normal ferrari for that ;)

3DMark isn't a game, it's just a silly benchmark. Why on earth someone would spend 2 days tweaking system just to run all tests and aim for a high score. Especially when only the game tests have effect to final score :)

Maybe some of you guys are just TOO MUCH into this benchmark, eh? No offence :)

[PiLsY]

Sampsa,

You must realise that to some of us this is as much a part of the whole overclocking hobby as anything else. I am not laying blame on you for beating anyones score - far from it, my congrats on a frankly amazing score. However, you must realise that with the cooling you use it is simply pour and pray.

Your final comment about "too much into the benchmark" is somewhat self contradictory when you have spent the money to have an entire separate pc you can pour LN2 onto just to get a higher cpu clock. I would ask you now - who takes what too seriously :)?

I certainly have no thoughts in my head along the lines of "hes taking it too seriously" as I can fully respect that some people out there are more into getting max mhz for minimum time simply to get the fastest cpu on the planet. This is just as worthy a pursuit as the one we follow here. each is differnt, but both are motivated exactly the same. The only difference is your target compared to ours. I do firmly believe that the way you guys bench compared to the way everyone else benches 3dmark is totally incompatible. By submitting scores like that, that you freely admit you dont really care about then you are simply crapping on the hobby for the rest of us. I have spent many a spare moment looking over maccis or holichos site simply in awe at what you can achieve, but I really do not believe its compatible with the ORB.

Afterall, if somebody else came along with a totally ridiculous cooling system that somehow blitzed yours, and there was no way in hell you could ever compete with them how would you feel? I know it cant happen as LN2 is as far as you can go, but the comparison is valid. We as a team have worked away at 3dmark for almost 12 months now, and the fruits of our labour are starting to show (we had 8 of 10 top 10 spots at one point), but all of a sudden along comes a group of people who dont care abot the ORB team mentality using a type of cooling that is so radically "ghetto" that you cant use that pc for more than about 30 minutes if that, simply to crap on all our hard work. This is not the way things have been done at MO before, I have no idea why holicho chose now to publish that score and start this whole rukus off, but he did. I cant blame you all for now competing with him, but you must understand that youre competing at a whole different ball game than anyone else out there.

This is whats caused the problem, and as ive said before I have no intention of claiming its "illegal" or "cheating" or any of that crap, I just think it should be in a separate catagory. It was always blatantly obvious that nobody could compete with holicho and co if he decided to submit scores, and on this basis he never did. Tweaks and hard work arent worth a piss in tidal wave compared to the pure speed advantage LN2 and dry ice brings. Theres no way to compete except to match. This is something you wont really find anyone doing. The guys who use LN2 now are some serious benchers. If everyday overclockers try and do that to compete on the orb well end up with a whole lot of overclockers missing fingers :p.

A simple CPU speed based division catagory for anyone in a team, as well as a team registration database would solve tis problem once and for all. This is work that madonion would have to spend time doing for no monetary gain, but it would be very simple (as prooved by the fastest webmasters table). A separate orb for 3d mark team members, split into divisions which due to running on cpu speed (or even 3dmark score) would adequately separate out the LN2 and dry ice benchers from the "normal overclcokers" and restore the ORB to how it used to be. Everyone happy. Everyone has their own division to compete in where they can still achieve "number 1 status". As of now there is no point in my running any more benches. The best I could possibly do is around 15 - 20th. This would only decrease with time as your teams attracted more members. 5 finnish members and 5 japanese members takes up the entire top 10 unnopposed. You would have your own little competition between yourselves. The thing I suppose I have to ask of you based on that (which is the point ive been trying to make all along) is why bother even publishing? You can compete just as easily amongst yourselves like that by simply posting screenshots. Its a case of 10 peoples fun spoiling it for hundreds of others.

PiLsY.

[Creative]

Originally posted by fredperry
now tell me how many 3DMarkers use their benchsystem for gaming or 3DMax studio?)


Well to be honest, I do....:) I format my drive, install windows and 3dmark, hammer it for a few days, and then after finishing my benching stages, I start installing my usual programs...:)

Thats what I pride myself on being able to do; Use my everyday system, heck even the SAME PARTITION, to achieve the highest result that I can get......Not a machine that runs for 10 mins....:)

To be honest I think I have one of the weakest cooling setup on this forum. I use straight water cooling with a cyclone 5 block and a 2x120mm fan Radiator with an ehiem 1250 pump. My water sits at 25 degrees and my cpu temps sit at around 40-50. Nothing spectacular, but then you see my ORB scores and then I amd happy knowing I did this on the above setup....not with Vapochill, not with Prometia and certainly not with LN2 :)

Sampsa, dont think for one second I dont respect what you do, cos I do, enormously, its just that me trying to catch you with my Water cooling is like the analogy that PiLsY used.....im the touring car.....and your the drag car......it just isnt possible for me to catch you....:)

[Bravo]

A score is a score. I doubt many people complained when the evolution from water/pelt to phase change happened. I think its a good idea, it will push people to their limits to do more software tweaking then FSB overclocking. To make matters better, it is quite respectable to gain a huge percentage of a LN2 guy's score aircooled/watercooled.

I like team japan, modesty never goes astray.

[bmg]

Originally posted by fredperry
now tell me how many 3DMarkers use their benchsystem for gaming or 3DMax studio?) Is this a bad thing? no, not really, not for me.

Actually I use the same system for benching and gaming. Makes a lot of sense if you're a hardcore (or Xtreme) gamer.

Obviously 3DMark doesn't care what a system is like as long as it can make it through the benchmarks. I think the only thing that's reasonable to ask is that we make note of the type of cooling we're using so it's at least possible to compare our scores to others that are similar. It's inevitable that the folks pushing the cooling limits with LN2 are going to take over the top spots and probably page one. There really isn't anything that can or should be done about it. Some member the the XtremeSystems team have already expressed a willingness to compete on that level. If the LN2 benches and normal phase change benches make note of the cooling used, that's really all that can be asked. How about it? That seems to typically be standard proceedure already.

[Sampsa]

ok ppl one thing about LN2.

It's not so dangerous what you think it is. You can actually dip your fingers to it. It feels like fog or something :)

I remember our first test with LN2. It was about 1,5 years ago. We did it together with Kamu (from ORB) and we were very excited.

We used gloves and had some other safety precautions available. We were very careful and everything went fine. A good plan is the key to success.

You don't have to be a hero to use it, just know what you are doing. I think everyone of you guys can get LN2 if you want to.

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Here in Finland getting 10 liters of LN2 goes like this:

I call to my friend who owns the welding store > "Hi, I would like to order 10 liters of LN2, it'll come Wednesday, right?"

When I go and pick it up, I load it to my car (Peugeot 405) like this:

http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cooling/ln2/2.jpg

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BTW, I already know some details about the structure of new 3DMark's game demos.. but that's a different story... :)

[Bravo]

Is that container pressurized? I would assume so?