Radeon 9800Pro 2 9800 XT Flash

[Ravilj]

I'm sure most of u know bout the bios's from 3dmaxx that does this? well this interested me so i set out 2 try myself...i suceeded! So if ur interested on how it was done or how 2 edit bios's or get an idea hav a look! And mayb u can help solve the problem with my bios and that from 3dmaxx!

Radeon 9800 Pro bios reflash to Radeon 9800 XT (http://www.planetmars.co.za/forums/index.php?showtopic=11723&st=0)

[spaceman]

Very interesting stuff, just a bit over my head. I grabbed the BIOS that keeps the 9800 Pro IDs, Thanx much. :toast: I'll look back and see what progress you make on unraveling the drivers. BTW, what utility do you use for flashing it? Thanx. :)

[Ravilj]

flashrom can get it from the w1zzards OCfaq! (http://softmod.ocfaq.com/bios.php)

[Gothic]

is this worthwhile? 'cause i'm thinking that just editing my 9800p bios to Xt speeds would be so much safe and easy...

[spaceman]

Please pardon my ignorance, but exactly what do I need to type in once I'm in the flash utility? I've always been a little lost in the DOS environment. :confused: Thanx much. :)

[Ravilj]

ok pretty much you should have your boot disk and than another disk with flashrom (my preference) and the bios you want to use. Boot using the disk and than place the flash disk in.

Type
"Dir /w /p" - This will than show you whats on the disk and you can see what the name of the bios file is.

Type
"flashrom -i" - This will display all the adapter numbers, use this to check which adapter your radeon is, usually 0. (all instructions from now on use 0 as the adapter number).

Type
"flashrom -s 0 bios file.bin" - This will save your existing bios to the file name you specify. Good to keep a backup of it.

Type
"flashrom -p 0 bios file.bin" - This is where you specify the name of the bios you wish to flash your card with. From here the program will flash the card.

After it says xxx bytes verified than press CTRL+ALT+DEL to reset, dont use your reset button.

If for some reason there is a error message about not being able to flash the card or whatever you can force flash it.

Type
"flashrom -p 0 bios file.bin -f" - This will force flash the card with the bios. And again wait for xxx bytes to be verified and than use CTRL+ALT+DEL to reset.

[neokenzo]

Originally posted by Ravilj

After it says xxx bytes verified than press CTRL+ALT+DEL to reset, dont use your reset button.

What happens if you use the reset button?

[Ravilj]

not actually sure, when started reading up on it, all the sites gave warnings bout that...never tried...

[Ravilj]

Originally posted by Gothic
is this worthwhile? 'cause i'm thinking that just editing my 9800p bios to Xt speeds would be so much safe and easy...

No its not worth while its better to use a pro bios with editted clocks!

[neokenzo]

I must have missed the rest button thing big time. No wonder none of my flash works. Could that be the reason why?

[Ravilj]

quite possibly, there is a big difference between a warm boot (CTRL+ALT+DEL) and a cold reboot (reset key). Give it a go.

[Karnivore]

We've already proven a while back that this procedure is questionable at best, the slight gains a few folks saw could be marked off to any numbers of things.. If you do a bit of searching I believe you'll come acrossed 2 or 3 fairly indepth threads regarding this..:toast:

[Ket]

Pro to XT flash does work, most ppl gain 200pts or so - and thats constant, to be honest I wouldnt really bother unless your a performance freak, just edit the Pro BIOS to XT speeds, you wont see THAT much difference from the XT BIOS.

and for reference;

once flasrom has loaded type; Flashrom -p 0 filename.rom
and to save ur original BIOS first; Flashrom -s 0 original.rom

[neokenzo]

If I am not mistaken the 200 points is the only difference when flashing to XT. Nothing else changed much.

[glock19owner]

The 256 with DDR2 and using the XT PCB...those are real XT's just using a flashed Pro BIOS...these are the only cards that the Pro to XT flash mod actually works on...after the flash you would have a TRUE XT...

But it HAS to be a 256MB, 256 bit DDR2 (hynix) Pro using the XT PCB....they do make the 256MB 256bit Pro that uses DDR but still uses the XT PCB...these will NOT work when flashing to a XT...

And if using any other card besides the 256MB , DDR 2 w/XT PCB...then the 200 makrs is from the card running at 412/365...not from the actual BIOS...

I did this flash when it was first known on my 128...I actually get better scores when I reflashed to a Pro BIOS with the settings set at 412/365...

So if not runing the 256MB, 256 bit card with DDR2 Hynix and the XT PCB...its a total waste to flash to a XT BIOS...

[sobol]

glock19owner i wont agree with you.
I got Radeon 9800 NP and im using orginal bios but mod to 411/317 and im getting 5860 points in 3Dmark03 . After hex editing my current bios and changeing id values and names ( to R360 ) my card is recognized as Radeon 9800 XT. Then i bench and i get 6220 points in 3Dmark03 , so about 360 points gain. The problem is i get with XT bios strange artifacts in 3Dmark03 , theyre look like black window frames i get them in test 2 and 3. 3Dmark01 and games are artifacts free. My idea is that when drivers recognize card as xt it launch some features that are supported only by r360 core, ie z-buffer new version or something like this, and this feature also make i get more points in 3Dmark03.

Ravilj im interested in your opinion i used your post to edit my current bios.

Greetz

[Ravilj]

Its as you mentioned there, the drivers read the bios and see it as a R360 core and hence implement the procedures relating to the R360 core, the only way to correct this error is by hex editting the drivers but by doing this you would be shooting yourself in the foot since the only way I can see is to fool the drivers into treating the supposed R360 core (that it thinks it sees) as a R350 core. In this case the 200-300 points increase people see is lost.

When I have some free time, I will mod a stock pro bios to that with an 'XT' id and bench it and than do the same for a stock bios. I'll post the results here, than we can see since the clock speeds will be the same.

[sobol]

Okey , thx for replay.
For me PRO bios and same bios moded to XT ( changed ids ) give me 360 points incrase.

[sobol]

Okey ive worked it out , done with this puzzles.

Thats my theory based on facts:

When you change bios id to XT ,drivers recognize card as Radeon 9800 XT, they enable support for never version of Hierarchical Z ( R360 support it ).
When you run 3Dmark03 you get some missdisplaying coz R350 core is useing older implementation of Hierarchical Z, but you gains extra points. To get rid of missdisplaying with R350 to 360 mod you must disable Hierarchical Z.

3Dmark2003 ofcoz use Hierarchical Z ,and bench gains frames/points from its ussage.

When you total disable Hierachical Z 3Dmark2003 get lowest score.

And why only 3Dmark2003 have missdisplaying and other vid progz not ? coz probably only 3dmark2003 useing those Hierarchical Z procedures.


Now how ive found that all.
Radeon 9800 411/317 ( PRO BIOS ) - 5860 points
Radeon 9800 411/317 ( XT CHANGED ID IN BIOS ) - 6220 points
Radeon 9800 411/317 ( XT CHANGED ID IN BIOS ) with disabled Hierarchical Z ( used rTool ) - 5740 points
Radeon 9800 411/317 ( PRO BIOS ) with disabled Hierarchical Z ( used rTool ) - 5735 points

Conclusion. There is no sense to mod R350 to 360 to gains extra 300 points in 3Dmark03 , you will get your points but you will have missdisplaying. And another thing , nothing in real world will use Hierarchical Z procedures so you will have same fps. Only owners of Radeon 9800 PRO 256 MB with PCB same as XT will benefit with proper display.

[M4D]

Good post's guys, Most of it i understand, :D .

But,

I have a sapphire 9800 pro 128mb and i've tried loads of XT bios files but
none give me any improvement at all in any way to be honest and since all
the messing around with bios's XT and Pro i decided to just make a copy of the
original pro bios and change the clock's to XT speeds and flash that and it
seems to be running fine, :D .

I have the R360 core and samsung 8E "2.8ns ? I believe ?" memory which both run fine overclocked .
The highest i've had stable with various tools is 425.25 - 378.00 Which is ok but
i wanted more and so i've just volt modded the gpu and mem for a little extra juice,
i've got tweakmonster sinks and a vga silencer on the card and loads of 120mm fans
blowing in that direction, :D and it's seems ok "Cool enough" for now at 1.8 gpu and 2.8 mem
but before i change anything else i decided i want to get my hands on someone who is willing
to help me edit my original bios so that it shows up as an xt !!
I don't want to flash another xt bios i just want windows to detect it as an xt but i dont know
how to edit the bios properly to do that ? Any ideas ? or can someone do this for me ? .

Im not scamming someone or selling the card off as an xt or anything like that im not selling this for a long
time hopefully, :D I just want it like that, :D if you can understand .
It might even give me a nice big head when someone askes me if it's really an xt, ;) . Come on you know what i mean, It's all bragging rights yes, ;) :D !! ...

[sobol]

I can change it for you without problems.
Pm on private for place where to send your bios.

[Ravilj]

Yup agreed sobol.

[M4D]

Originally posted by sobol
I can change it for you without problems.
Pm on private for place where to send your bios.


Nice one mate, And thank you, You should also have a pm .

And heres my original bios i want editing ...

[sobol]

Okey modding done. Ive changed names and ids in bios. Also ive changed core/mem speed to 411/365.

About your bios, it had structure ( positions of values ) exacly same as XT bios but walues was from PRO/NP.

Greetz

[Ravilj]

I've created a monster... heh heh heh! sobol nicely done, glad people are benefitting from this!

[M4D]

Nice one mate im not at home till tomorrow but i will have a go with this bios
as soon as i get back, And thanks again mate !! You've been a great help, :D ...

[M4D]

unfortunately i blew a hard drive and havent had time to test the bios out but
i will get around to it asap, :D I promice . Just as soon as maxtor rma my drive, :D .

Has anyone got any ideas how long an advanced rma takes off maxtor ? Ireland to Uk ? ...

[Tedinde]

Im going to test your theory's. I just got a ati 9800 pro and hour ago that has a true 360 core. and shows as a 9800 pro. It a REAL ATI card not the sapphire.

And also i have my Other 9800 pro that has a 350 core. Lets see if this does make a difference.

It didnt do squat when i did it on a 9800 pro that in my vapo.

yeah i have too many cards.!!!

[Tedinde]

Anyone seen a XT Bios for a True ATI card 9800 pro with a 360 core and Hynix 2.8 memory

[Dekal]

Tedinde: There is a BIOS for ATI RADEON 9800PRO with R360 core + Hynix 2.8 memory (like my Saphire Atlantis 9809PRO has).
I'm using the Club3D 9800XT BIOS for a long time and it works best for me. I think it is the only one on the net which supports Hynix memory. But i think you can use some BIOS with Samsung or other memory too.

[Dekal]

Sobol, can you help me to find my mistake? I tried to transform my original Sapphire Atlantis 9800Pro BIOS to a 9800XT but if i flash it, graphics card is shown as 9800Pro in windows.

That's my original non edited BIOS:

http://dekal.kalytta.com/sonstiges/ORIGINAL.rom

And this one is my edited with a mistake in it:

http://dekal.kalytta.com/sonstiges/Edit.rom

What's wrong there??

[Dekal]

My plan is to use my own ATI 9800Pro BIOS instead of the edited Club3D one. Can anyone help me find out whats wrong with my self edited BIOS file please?

[Snowman89]

i got a GeCube 9800pro 128mb with hynix 2.8ns memoryies that i can run at 440/780 so i want to flash it to an 9800XT can i use the Club3d 9800xt 128mb hynix memories?
and yes i have a r360

[M4D]

Originally posted by sobol
Okey modding done. Ive changed names and ids in bios. Also ive changed core/mem speed to 411/365.

About your bios, it had structure ( positions of values ) exacly same as XT bios but walues was from PRO/NP.

Greetz


Sorry i took so long but been busy and then testing things out etc, :D .

Have to report it's working sound as a pound mate ! More or less exactly same results in
3dMark2001SE and 3dMark2003 And Aquamark scores are a little higher but i think thats
just down to the latest format etc.


Good job mate you've done me a BIG favour there ! If you ever need anything and i can help you
with it just ask mate and i'll jump at a chance to return the favour, :D ...
:toast:

[Dekal]

Originally posted by Snowman89
i got a GeCube 9800pro 128mb with hynix 2.8ns memoryies that i can run at 440/780 so i want to flash it to an 9800XT can i use the Club3d 9800xt 128mb hynix memories?
and yes i have a r360

Yes, for sure you can do that.

[Snowman89]

Originally posted by Dekal
Yes, for sure you can do that.
okey thank you, do you know if it is secure to flash the bios from windows using WINFLASH?

[Dekal]

Originally posted by Snowman89
okey thank you, do you know if it is secure to flash the bios from windows using WINFLASH?

Yes, at least for me it is secure. I just have tested it twice to flash BIOS with my system with WinFlash.v1.0.0.17 and it suceeded twice.

[Snowman89]

Originally posted by Dekal
Yes, at least for me it is secure. I just have tested it twice to flash BIOS with my system with WinFlash.v1.0.0.17 and it suceeded twice.
okey but how do i save the current bios in winflash?
when i press save i ust get like a .exe file on my desktop, should it be like that?
should i not get a .rom file?

[Dekal]

Originally posted by Snowman89
okey but how do i save the current bios in winflash?
when i press save i ust get like a .exe file on my desktop, should it be like that?
should i not get a .rom file?

Just make a new name and save it to disk. The important thing is the code in that file, not its filename. I advice you to name the file as ORIGINAL.BIN so that you know it is your original saved graphics BIOS ROM file.

[Massive]

What's the worst thing could happened when flashing vid card BIOS...I have one here BBA Radeon 9800PRO 128 Samsung 2A memory...Is there 100% guaranteed it will work
I don' t want to kill my card...at least for now :D...kinda broke now :D
FYI I used Vantec Iceberg4 for the cooling...it only do 390/365 max vwithout artifact (I'm using ATITOOL)...
FIrst of all I think the Vantec is worse then the original because there're 2 resistor ( I think) blocking its way, so it doesn't have full contact with the core...but if not using ATITOOL its still work fine on 3Dmark2001SE on 401/370...never tried above that..

[Dekal]

Originally posted by Massive
What's the worst thing could happened when flashing vid card BIOS...

The worst thing is that your video card won't show you anything if you turn on your computer. But this isn't bad as long as you know how to flash blind, or have an old pci graphics adapter. That are my worst flashing experiences that i have challanged. :)

[Dekal]

Originally posted by Massive

FYI I used Vantec Iceberg4 for the cooling...it only do 390/365 max vwithout artifact (I'm using ATITOOL)...
FIrst of all I think the Vantec is worse then the original because there're 2 resistor ( I think) blocking its way, so it doesn't have full contact with the core...but if not using ATITOOL its still work fine on 3Dmark2001SE on 401/370...never tried above that..

I read your post again and must warn you about that. If core hasn't full contact, then it is far more dangerous that you destroy your video card then flashing it! It's very important that you cool down the core. I advice you to recheck it. Maybe you can buy a new cooler like the Artic Cooling Silencer. That cooler isn't expensive and cools down very good.

[Massive]

Originally posted by Dekal
The worst thing is that your video card won't show you anything if you turn on your computer. But this isn't bad as long as you know how to flash blind, or have an old pci graphics adapter. That are my worst flashing experiences that i have challanged. :)

Ok..you've got my interest here :) ....You mean there's NO WAY I could destroy my card permanantly if I only flash the BIOS??

HOw is it this "Flash Blind" ?...

What do I need to flash it...is PCI card is a must?

Ok I try to change it again with default HSF...darn that Vantec...I thought it fully compatible with all Radeon 9800PRO...I looked at it again...and there's no way I could push it more hard since 2 very tiny resistor is on the way...gotta find a way to hardmod the vantec :mad: ...

[Dekal]

Originally posted by Massive
Ok..you've got my interest here :) ....You mean there's NO WAY I could destroy my card permanantly if I only flash the BIOS??

HOw is it this "Flash Blind" ?...

What do I need to flash it...is PCI card is a must?

I'm 99,99% sure you can't destroy your vid card permanantly with flashing. For example i have flashed a GeForce3 with a GeForce4 BIOS. After that, i had to flash blind because of display distortions. I have flashed a 3Dfx Voodoo 5 about 100times or even more to tweak BIOS with best memory timings/memory refresh cycles/pci wait state cycles/pci fifo treshholds and many many more.... and no damage to my vid cards. ;)
If you have flashed your vid card and the display won't show you anything or show you distortions, you have to know blindly how to flash back your original BIOS. That's blind flash. For blind flash you have to prepare a floppy disk as a MS-DOS Boot Disk, add all files you need, like the original UNEDITED BIOS of you video card, the EDITED/Overclocked BIOS you want to flash and the flash tool for your video card. Then you have to know what command to use to save the original BIOS and what command to use to flash new BIOS. If you prefer it not to flash blind, you can use an old pci graphics adapter to see all you are doing during flash process. But first you have to set one BIOS setting that lets you boot from pci graphics adapter instead of the agp one.
If you know all that, then it is very easy.

[Massive]

Originally posted by Dekal
I'm 99,99% sure you can't destroy your vid card permanantly with flashing. For example i have flashed a GeForce3 with a GeForce4 BIOS. After that, i had to flash blind because of display distortions. I have flashed a 3Dfx Voodoo 5 about 100times or even more to tweak BIOS with best memory timings/memory refresh cycles/pci wait state cycles/pci fifo treshholds and many many more.... and no damage to my vid cards. ;)
If you have flashed your vid card and the display won't show you anything or show you distortions, you have to know blindly how to flash back your original BIOS. That's blind flash. For blind flash you have to prepare a floppy disk as a MS-DOS Boot Disk, add all files you need, like the original UNEDITED BIOS of you video card, the EDITED/Overclocked BIOS you want to flash and the flash tool for your video card. Then you have to know what command to use to save the original BIOS and what command to use to flash new BIOS. If you prefer it not to flash blind, you can use an old pci graphics adapter to see all you are doing during flash process. But first you have to set one BIOS setting that lets you boot from pci graphics adapter instead of the agp one.
If you know all that, then it is very easy.

Ok...I think I'll start flashing :)..I'll get my self a PCI vid card first...the PCI vid card doesn't have to be certain amount of memory or memory chip right?...does Riva TNT PCI 16mb is ok too?..

I see you rig using 9800PRO from sapphire...where can i get the overclocked BIOS of 9800PRO to XT...FYI...mine is BBA woth Samsung 2A...
Please link me to website for all tools needed for flashing...

[Dekal]

First look into BIOS for the option "Init Display First" and set it to "PCI Slot" temporarily instead of "AGP". Then open this link to download "BIOS Flash Kit".

http://infoprosjoint.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=6

Read the Readme file that is in the Kit. For more BIOSes except the one in this Kit, see this link:

http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/bios.php
or
http://koti.mbnet.fi/elixir/Radeon/

The BIOS in the Kit isn't very good because it is an ATI reference BIOS.
I would advice you use your original BIOS which i can transform to XT for you. You can PM it to me if you want. With the command "flashrom -s 0 original.bin" you save your original BIOS. But anyway, first save the original one to disk before flashing new one!
If you don't want it transformed by me, choose one that suites best for your video card at the sites i have linked to you or use the ATI reference.
If all goes wrong and your card doesn't like the BIOS you flashed, then plug in your PCI Adapter together with the AGP video adapter and flash back to original state.
But keep in mind, there is a minimum risk, that you damage your card inrepairable. (that are not my experiences, but the words of many people).
For more questions, PM me.
Good luck.

[skinnie]

ppl sorry to put this thread up..but I have a Gecube 9800pro 128mb r360 Platinum CS CZ Edition with samsung mems..currently it has a hinyx bios but it is giving me lots of artifacts in 3dmark..wich bios do I flash?