sky
03-13-2004, 08:41 AM
yea topic says it all.
what do you guys think of electronic driving aids in your car like asr (slip control), esp (stability control), abs (anti blocking) and other stuff, maybe power steering and the likes?
i know they are a godsend for most, but what about potential dangers?
as far as i understand it, most of these systems are designed to make your ride a little safer. to achieve this, a set of chips checks your every move, reads a bunch of probes and sensor, analyzes their values and adjusts certain things in your car. while this generally makes driving a lot safer, there's plenty people out there who neglect that they (as the driver) are still the most dangerous part in the(ir) car. now with all these electronical gizmos, they can get by making errors without even knowing it, where they would probably have ran out of road without those aids enabled - maybe resulting in a nice wreckage.
to give you an example, let's say we have a curve that's designed for 50 mph. with your average car without gizmos, you might be able to pass through it with 55-60 mph without much of a problem. at, say 65 mph, you would have your car push over the frontwheels or start sliding... so you lift of the throttle and might just make it - or with a rwd car start spinning ;). if you have a good feel for your car and know how to drive, you could get away with ~65 mph in that car, but probably not joe average.
so now - with his brandspanking new toy with mr electrogizmo under the hood - he would probably be able to pass through that curve at ~65 mph without noticing that his car is actually working pretty hard to make it through there without impact, like slowing individual wheels to decelerate and stabilize the car. this could give mr joe average the idea to maybe try a little faster next time.. 70 mph. the result would probably be obvious. electronics can't outwit / outperform the laws of physic, so at a certain velocity all his little electronic friends can try and do everything they are programmed to do, but they won't be able to get the car through that corner (driving) - instead they will make it even harder for mr average in the car since on entering the corner they will work hard to make the car feel normal to its driver, while it is already traveling very close or past its limits. so once the limit is surpassed the driver is faced with a car going out of control in the blink of an eye - there is not much in the way of noticing something is going wrong for the driver until it is too late and by then he is (as niki lauda put it) only a passenger - nothing more.
so what i want to point out with this is that some people suddenly feel safe with all these electronical bits and pieces controlling their every move, neglecting the dangers that lurks in the next corner because their cars don't "talk" to them as before, where you would notice that your car starts sliding - it will do this, but you won't notice it as early as with a "naked" car. it's like the car thinks for the driver - and that is what i fear. i'm not really opposed to those gadgets - though it might seem that way. i just want people to realize that these gimmicks can't save you from yourself forever.
oh well, another point here that needs to be considered is that electronics can fail - and sometimes will fail. as i wrote in the 206cc riced-thread, a friend of mine has a 206 whose electronics - so far only the diagnostics displayed on the dash - partially failed. what if it continues and some vital electronic part fails in a situation where you actually need it? i've been driving in a beemer 540 4years ago returning from a new years party (around 4am, dark night) when suddenly all the lights of the car failed. we were lucky this happened in the city and not on some curvy cross country road a +80 mph in complete darkness - we surely would've ended in the dirt. or with the 750il beemer of a business friend. that car was brandnew, 2 weeks tops when it just shut down the engine in middriving! - and it happened again after being at the shop for inspection - same with his replacement 750. so he returned those 2 and got a smaller beemer (530d) whose series had been built for some time by then and was already realiable (which the other one should have been when it was released to the public).
just imagine any of your gizmos failing in a critical situation... ;)
i've head the brakes on my first car fail the day i got my driving license - my first ever drive outside driving school. that was on scary moment, driving into town, slowly easing of the throttle coming up to some red lights, hitting the brakes and ... well nothing happened. since i had a car behind me, i stayed on the brakes to show him my brake lights and pulled the handbrake plus forcing the car down the gears to use the engine brake. i made it without impact - but not by far. right after the lights i pulled over, trembling and all... i don't need an experience like that - ever again.
i don't want to panic people, just think a little bit about it and drive accordingly. remeber jackass? safety first ;)
now i'm curious to hear your opinions. (would have made it a poll, if i'd understood how to do that.. :D .. "yes, post as a poll!" sounded great, but the preview didn't look like on so i made it a normal post.)
what do you guys think of electronic driving aids in your car like asr (slip control), esp (stability control), abs (anti blocking) and other stuff, maybe power steering and the likes?
i know they are a godsend for most, but what about potential dangers?
as far as i understand it, most of these systems are designed to make your ride a little safer. to achieve this, a set of chips checks your every move, reads a bunch of probes and sensor, analyzes their values and adjusts certain things in your car. while this generally makes driving a lot safer, there's plenty people out there who neglect that they (as the driver) are still the most dangerous part in the(ir) car. now with all these electronical gizmos, they can get by making errors without even knowing it, where they would probably have ran out of road without those aids enabled - maybe resulting in a nice wreckage.
to give you an example, let's say we have a curve that's designed for 50 mph. with your average car without gizmos, you might be able to pass through it with 55-60 mph without much of a problem. at, say 65 mph, you would have your car push over the frontwheels or start sliding... so you lift of the throttle and might just make it - or with a rwd car start spinning ;). if you have a good feel for your car and know how to drive, you could get away with ~65 mph in that car, but probably not joe average.
so now - with his brandspanking new toy with mr electrogizmo under the hood - he would probably be able to pass through that curve at ~65 mph without noticing that his car is actually working pretty hard to make it through there without impact, like slowing individual wheels to decelerate and stabilize the car. this could give mr joe average the idea to maybe try a little faster next time.. 70 mph. the result would probably be obvious. electronics can't outwit / outperform the laws of physic, so at a certain velocity all his little electronic friends can try and do everything they are programmed to do, but they won't be able to get the car through that corner (driving) - instead they will make it even harder for mr average in the car since on entering the corner they will work hard to make the car feel normal to its driver, while it is already traveling very close or past its limits. so once the limit is surpassed the driver is faced with a car going out of control in the blink of an eye - there is not much in the way of noticing something is going wrong for the driver until it is too late and by then he is (as niki lauda put it) only a passenger - nothing more.
so what i want to point out with this is that some people suddenly feel safe with all these electronical bits and pieces controlling their every move, neglecting the dangers that lurks in the next corner because their cars don't "talk" to them as before, where you would notice that your car starts sliding - it will do this, but you won't notice it as early as with a "naked" car. it's like the car thinks for the driver - and that is what i fear. i'm not really opposed to those gadgets - though it might seem that way. i just want people to realize that these gimmicks can't save you from yourself forever.
oh well, another point here that needs to be considered is that electronics can fail - and sometimes will fail. as i wrote in the 206cc riced-thread, a friend of mine has a 206 whose electronics - so far only the diagnostics displayed on the dash - partially failed. what if it continues and some vital electronic part fails in a situation where you actually need it? i've been driving in a beemer 540 4years ago returning from a new years party (around 4am, dark night) when suddenly all the lights of the car failed. we were lucky this happened in the city and not on some curvy cross country road a +80 mph in complete darkness - we surely would've ended in the dirt. or with the 750il beemer of a business friend. that car was brandnew, 2 weeks tops when it just shut down the engine in middriving! - and it happened again after being at the shop for inspection - same with his replacement 750. so he returned those 2 and got a smaller beemer (530d) whose series had been built for some time by then and was already realiable (which the other one should have been when it was released to the public).
just imagine any of your gizmos failing in a critical situation... ;)
i've head the brakes on my first car fail the day i got my driving license - my first ever drive outside driving school. that was on scary moment, driving into town, slowly easing of the throttle coming up to some red lights, hitting the brakes and ... well nothing happened. since i had a car behind me, i stayed on the brakes to show him my brake lights and pulled the handbrake plus forcing the car down the gears to use the engine brake. i made it without impact - but not by far. right after the lights i pulled over, trembling and all... i don't need an experience like that - ever again.
i don't want to panic people, just think a little bit about it and drive accordingly. remeber jackass? safety first ;)
now i'm curious to hear your opinions. (would have made it a poll, if i'd understood how to do that.. :D .. "yes, post as a poll!" sounded great, but the preview didn't look like on so i made it a normal post.)