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PiLsY
09-16-2002, 03:24 AM
Well, reformatted to go with the vgpu mod. And ive hit a problem...

I seem to have lost about 50fps from my car low detail test. No idea why. Nothing is setup differently, identical settings all around. Every other test is fine, just the car low detail.

I formatted again thinking a bad windows install, but the same thing again. Reinstalled 3dmark god knows how many times, but its no help. The other tests are all down a couple of fps, but Im assuming its tied in to the huge loss on the car test. The car low detail is cpu dependant, the gfx card has never really helped up the scores much. For some reason tho my cpu now seems vastly underpowered. All cpu dependant benchmarks have gone up (in time - down in score) by a huge degree. Bios setup is identical (all I changed was to boot from cd to reinstall), clock speed and voltage identical.

Im at a loss here - anyone got any ideas? Its costing me around 600 points at the moment...

PiLsY.

KnightElite
09-17-2002, 01:55 AM
Is it possible that the hardware acceleration slider is set differently than it was before? That's about all I can think of.....

Hiwayman
09-17-2002, 02:08 AM
Sorry my brain was in neutral.........

DDTUNG
09-17-2002, 02:15 AM
Hey Hiwayman, want to help us fold for a couple of days?

We could use some help from our friends right now.:D

DDTUNG:cool:

Hiwayman
09-17-2002, 02:44 AM
Yeah ok, I will.......:D

DDTUNG
09-17-2002, 02:49 AM
Thanks man.

Much appreciated by the entire Xtreme Folding Team.
:banana: :banana:

If you need help setting up, just let me know. The team number is 3365.

DDTUNG:cool:

Creative
09-17-2002, 03:19 AM
Yep I found Nature was about 15fps slower then realised I hadnt make the slider to performance in the display settings....:p

hehehehe
me = ATi noob :D

PiLsY
09-17-2002, 11:00 AM
Nope everything is identical. And I do mean absolutely everything.

I ghosted my previous install back on and the 50fps is back, so its definitely windows. Rechecked EVERY setting, reinstalled and boom, 50fps down again.

The strange thing is its ONLY the car test. The others are only about 1 or 2 fps astray from normal, slowly getting better as the time increases. IE nature is bang on (little higher actually ;)), lobby hitgh is the same, lobby low slightly less (0.5fps), dragothics both 1fps less and car high 1.5fps low. It seems like the cpu isnt coming straight up off idle. Im gonna try running a quick super pi 1m run to get the cpu up to notch first then launch straight into 3dmark.

PiLsY.

KnightElite
09-17-2002, 03:42 PM
Hmm.... just switch between installs to maximize your score, lol :D.

Run nature on your new one, and the rest on the old one, and get a better score than you used to get :D.

JCviggen
09-18-2002, 06:24 PM
Well I seem I sort of share Pilsy's problem. Right now i'm getting about 220/225 FPS in car low... at more than 3.5 frikking GHz ... I swear I had more than 250 earlier... where did my 30 frames go? :(
Also dissapeared after a fresh install...

Creative
09-18-2002, 07:51 PM
JC, thats definantly wrong cos I get that approx with my 3080mhz....usually between 225 and 235 so if your at 3.5 gig then something is way way off...

Is the cpu maybe throttling?

JCviggen
09-19-2002, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Creative
JC, thats definantly wrong cos I get that approx with my 3080mhz....usually between 225 and 235 so if your at 3.5 gig then something is way way off...

Is the cpu maybe throttling?


at -2°C, I very much doubt it.

PiLsY
09-19-2002, 03:15 AM
Thats exactly the FPS I was getting JC. Around 224.5fps @ 3.2ghz / 187 mem maxed timings and Radeon at 437/340.

To compare on my first install with same settings above (Except core @ 407mhz) I got 254 or so.

Bloody radeons. Anyway, its dead now so no more playing the game for a while.

PiLsY.

JCviggen
09-19-2002, 04:15 AM
Another dead one ?? Boy I better start prepping this one for RMA already :rolleyes:

Hiwayman
09-19-2002, 05:24 AM
Yep I alrerady have with my new one. DOA, well almost......
Hmmm....... it's still running?

Well 21 days to get it back. :rolleyes:

Creative
12-16-2002, 10:38 PM
Heya guys,

Im having this problem now too. I got my new vapo, put everything in, have tweaked the same as usual, and now car is 30fps slower than my old best score, and its about 40-50fps slower than I should be getting for my cpu speed

Specs
Epox 4PEA (lastest bios)
2.8 @ 3.5 (0idle and 5load)
9700 @ 375/380 (non vmod)
208mhz 2-7-2-2

Heres a link for my current 3dmark with the above specs.....18500 (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5353901). Pretty §§§§ if you ask me.

Here is my current high score of 18689 here (http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5168216) and as you can see *everything* is 3-5fps higher in the new score, even Lobby Low is 14fps higher, but that damn stupid car low is dragging me down.

I have reinstalled windows XP and tried diff ATi drivers, same windows tweaks.....my last resort is to try a friend copy of XP and see how it goes....

Would it be worth trying Win2k to see how that goes?

Cheers and thanks in advance guys :)

charlie
12-16-2002, 11:03 PM
Hmmm....
You know, I don't want to sound paranoid here, but earlier tonight I was doing some hardcore 3dmk'ing doing the one test at a time and allowing cooling and tweaking between runs thing.
And I came up with excellent (for me)
Lobby Low 253, Lobby Hi 108
Dragothic Low 349, Dragothic Hi 185
Nature 128
So, I wait and do Car chase last (cuz I can usually crank that test up big time) and VOILA! no matter what I can't even reach my OLD Car chase fps scores....
AND YES! I reinstalled WindowsXP on Saturday...
Hmmmm....
So, I got p*ssed off and just reset defaults and am sulking...
stuck at 18.5 and change:upset:
C BTW, what is cpu throttling?????????
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5345038

GreenBeret
12-17-2002, 01:14 AM
So, I wait and do Car chase last (cuz I can usually crank that test up big time) and VOILA! no matter what I can't even reach my OLD Car chase fps scores....

No surprize there. Running Car or Lobby last wiill result in a big loss in fps.

JCviggen
12-17-2002, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by Niko
No surprize there. Running Car or Lobby last wiill result in a big loss in fps.

yes, traditionally the test you run first will have a big boost, and will suffer if you run it last. The Nature test for example used to be run first on Ti4600 cards because you'd lose like 20 FPS running it last. Funny enough, I can now run the nature last with this radeon and hardly suffer at all ;)
Well ok to be honest the nature isnt the test I run last, but I cant give away everything ;)

Creative
12-17-2002, 05:04 AM
Can yuo give away the fix to this problem pls though JC? :p

Its stopping me from hitting 19K...:(

Cheers

JCviggen
12-17-2002, 06:26 AM
there is no "fix" .... you will always have a good first test and a less good last/later one ... running the tests in such an order that you score optimally is the key to the maximum score. But this is different with each system, and you can consider 100-200 pts about the maximum you can really get from this... and it all comes down to testing & trying... takes a lot of time. There's no shortcut

GreenBeret
12-17-2002, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by JCviggen
there is no "fix" .... you will always have a good first test and a less good last/later one ... running the tests in such an order that you score optimally is the key to the maximum score. But this is different with each system, and you can consider 100-200 pts about the maximum you can really get from this... and it all comes down to testing & trying... takes a lot of time. There's no shortcut

What he said.

I've tried all possible Windows tweaks to "fix" that but haven't been successful. It's just trials and errors.

Creative
12-17-2002, 07:30 AM
Originally posted by JCviggen
Well I seem I sort of share Pilsy's problem. Right now i'm getting about 220/225 FPS in car low... at more than 3.5 frikking GHz ... I swear I had more than 250 earlier... where did my 30 frames go? :(
Also dissapeared after a fresh install...
It has nothing to do with good runs and bad runs, im getting cosistent higher in every score yet my car low is 30fps lower than my record and 40-50 frames lower than what I should be getting.

In both a tweaked OS environment, and a non tweaked environment it happens. With SP1 installed it happens. Usiing 6218 and 6193 drivers it happens......I usually see 340-350 when the truck goes round that first bend after being shot at by the ship.....im barely pushing 290 atm....every single time i run it....293 i think is the highest ive seen....in about 50 runs of 3dmark....I even reinstalled windows.


here are my scores for the latest run of 18500 at 3.5ghz where Car Low is way too low;
Game 1 Car Chase - Low Detail 218.6 FPS
Game 1 Car Chase - High Detail 92.1 FPS
Game 2 Dragothic - Low Detail 345.5 FPS
Game 2 Dragothic - High Detail 181.8 FPS
Game 3 Lobby - Low Detail 260.5 FPS
Game 3 Lobby - High Detail 111.2 FPS
Game 4 Nature 128.0 FPS


and here are my frames of my 18.689 run at 3.3ghz
Game 1 Car Chase - Low Detail 246.2 FPS
Game 1 Car Chase - High Detail 92.3 FPS
Game 2 Dragothic - Low Detail 341.1 FPS
Game 2 Dragothic - High Detail 180.5 FPS
Game 3 Lobby - Low Detail 246.7 FPS
Game 3 Lobby - High Detail 107.4 FPS
Game 4 Nature 137.3 FPS

Im at 3.5gig and getting 220fps for car low.....I dont think so that is very corect, as you said JC....:)

Its got me bummed :(

JCviggen
12-17-2002, 07:32 AM
Creative

one piece of advice ... try running the car low a few times until you get a better run. It goes up and down like crazy, 20-30 FPS differences are common at the same clocks. To try and get a better car low, just run it a few times and try to change something each time... like the card clocks a tad up or down, put 3Dmark at higher or lower priorities in task manager... etc

or, if you are running the car low as FIRST test, just run it and see if its good, if its not, close 3Dmark and try again.

Colin
12-17-2002, 07:33 AM
Creative, I asked the same question here (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5963) and like the others said it's pretty much random... My fluctuations aren't as bad as yours are, but I get those probs too and I'm running the Car Chase first! :(

Question for you though, why is your nature ith the 3.3 GHz system so high? Was it artifacting badly? Did you keep the videocard clocks the same?

Creative
12-17-2002, 07:35 AM
Rogerthat JC :)

Just been editing the post abit and saw ure reply.
heehhe

Ill try the rerunning of it and see how it goes. DId you see this bit of the post i edited in


In both a tweaked OS environment, and a non tweaked environment it happens. With SP1 installed it happens. Usiing 6218 and 6193 drivers it happens......I usually see 340-350 when the truck goes round that first bend after being shot at by the ship.....im barely pushing 290 atm....every single time i run it....293 i think is the highest ive seen....in about 50 runs of 3dmark....I even reinstalled windows.

real time comes under tweaked OS. Non tweaked would be normal time etc plus various other things like services off vs no servies off etc.

Anyways, 2:30am, im off to bed now, ill try your advice in the morn....Im also taking the card over to Niko tomorrow or the next day to test it on his pc....3 days ago or so it was getting 246fps on his machine at 2990...appreaicte your advice dood..:)

Creative
12-17-2002, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by Colin
Question for you though, why is your nature ith the 3.3 GHz system so high? Was it artifacting badly? Did you keep the videocard clocks the same?

Very artifacting, kinda like the turbo nture that some people speak of :D

It was a sweet spot in the card that tore to a certain point that the screen was showing better fps and stuff.

Kinda lame but at the same time, and Ive clarified this here with some senior members via PM and that is that we use everything to get ahead ;)

Unfortunantly this 3.5ghz rig now is using a diff vid card. The 3.3 score card was clocked at 383/375 and bumped up to 383/380ish for its sweet nature spot iirc and the new one is at 375/380. I can get it up to 380/385 in nature for a better score but it cant find the sweet spot on it yet :p

JCviggen
12-17-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Creative
Anyways, 2:30am, im off to bed now, ill try your advice in the morn....Im also taking the card over to Niko tomorrow or the next day to test it on his pc....3 days ago or so it was getting 246fps on his machine at 2990...appreaicte your advice dood..:) [/B]


changing 1 MHz FSB up or down often helps too... just a tip :)

Colin
12-17-2002, 07:49 AM
Kewl thanks Creative...

Hmm, I should try that out myself! :D

Creative
12-17-2002, 05:43 PM
Cheers JC and Colin...:)

JC, the 1mhz fsb up or down didnt help. Up froze the pc, down lowered the score.....Im getting a new copy of XP today and also taking the card over to a friends.

It better not be dead :(

Cheers guys

ps
What I am really asking for here and i thought it was obvious, but what did *YOU* guys do to fix this error? :)

charlie
12-17-2002, 07:40 PM
Well,
I lucked out a bit tonight and hit the numbers right. I CAN"T run Car chase last...From a cold boot, CAr Chase runs best for me.
Interestingly enough, this is with 3360mhz, 40mhz lower than my 18,5xx. ALSO, followed Xtreme guru's tips and switched WINXP Performance profile to "best performance" which made my desktop look like win2k...
Hmmm...........
C
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5361863

Creative
12-17-2002, 11:32 PM
Nice score :banana:

I took my card over to nikos house today and it worked fine so it is my setup.

I got his copy of Winxp and are installing as i type this and then tonight we will see if 19K is doable or not :p
heheheh

Ill be pretty pissed if it happens again :mad: :D
hahahaha

charlie
12-18-2002, 06:37 PM
Creative,
We have very similar setups, but your Lobby and Nature KILL mine...
Any ideas?? ;)
C
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5361863
Creative, Hey I didn't notice, your rig is a 2.8 at 157fsb. MAN, with that thing at 160+, and card at the same levels as mine or higher, then you'll REALLY KILL mine!!! I think 19k is more attainable for you than for me...

Creative
12-18-2002, 08:17 PM
Heya Charlie :)

I think for this bench I may have run Lobby first. I cant remember 100% but it loosk like it. If I run Lobby first I get more fps in it and less in Car and if I run car first I get less in lobby. They are the 2 cpu tests so run them first before drag and nature..:)

Nature is probably high cos I have had this run with the nature bug. Probably actually not a good thing to do cos now im chasing scores with a new card and cant find the nature sweet spot yet.

Im retired from 3dmark for now which is quite depressing. I cant solve this Car problem :( We tried a new WinXP cd and still no go. Car Low wont go over 220fps which is pathetic....while all other tests are about 3-4fps higher...lobby was even 15fps higher when I ran that first and even car 2nd was 3-4 fps higher than my 18.6 score.

Its so depressing cos I have 100% confimred 19K rig here and even maybe 19.5K and after volt mods on the 9700, maybe 20K.....but not atm while my car low is §§§§.

IMO its either the mobo, cpu, or the ram. Niko is coming over tomorrow with his 1.8A and memory to do some testing...:)

Creative
12-20-2002, 12:09 AM
Niko and myself, well mainly Niko, have come up with the solution to this problem. Maybe not the whole problem, but definantly *MY* problem :D

We had been sitting here for ages trying to figure it out trying new things and stuff and then we decided to use his WinXP ghost image thinking I was just a bad windows tweaker :p
hehehehe

After ghosting, the pc wouldnt boot up and so we went into the bios and Niko was looking for anything that was different in my bios that could be stopping the machine from booting and then it hit him like a brick :D

In the EPOX bios, for some reason the APIC is set to DISABLED. Its something he always enables for some reason, havnt found out why yet, but ill ask him soon. Anyways, we set to ENABLED and then the pc booted up straight away. :)

We then were feeling a bit excited so installed 3dmark and vid card drivers and opened up 3dmark and ran some Car Chase Low and guess what.........Everything is back to normal :banana:

So now we are playing with his 1.8A that is benching 3dmark at 3100mhz in the vapo and will put my 2.8 back in soon and try for 19K again. I also picked up a new 2.4b SL6EF 28/11/02 Phillipines today so we will play with that if we have time also.

Im sooooo happy now guys and I hope that this info will benefit some of you that are having this problem or come into this problem down the track.

Cheers

:)