Radiator Fans - Panaflo L1BX push only vs Corsair SP120 Push / Pull?

[Justintoxicated]

Hey guys, I have a bunch of panaflo L1BX / L1As that have been up and running for many years (since 2005). I have replaced all other fans in the system since then, possibly multiple times or replaced the parts they are attached to for upgrades. They seem to be working just the same as the day I got them.

I'm going to use 4 of them for one of the radiators in my 900D build simply to keep their legacy going. I'm thinking to pickup another Radiator an Alphacool UT60 quad for the bottom of the case. I found pictures of someones 900D with a black ice 54mm thick radiator that has SP120s in push pull. Clearance near the PSU was tight, perhaps the Panaflows would be a good fit there to give a little extra clearance.

Anyways since I still need to buy fans for the second radiator, would I be better off getting 8 SP120 quiets? According to specs 2 SP120's should be quieter than 1 L1BX when run at max. But which will work better when attached to a radiator? Also 8 SP120's are significantly more expensive than 3 L1BX (I have an extra one so I would only need 3) or even 4 L1BX.
Looking at $120 for SP120s vs $45 for the Panaflows which for me have a nice track record. I do not run my Panaflos at max, but they don't make an annoying noise when they are anyways.

Yes the Panaflo has that basic industrial look it it, the SP120's look much cooler, but lets say I don't care about the way things look.Of course Seeing Panaflos installed in person actually looks quite Heavy Duty due to their thick 38mm bodies.

[Conumdrum]

You still need SP (pressure) fans on a rad. Quiet is easy, but buying quiet non pressure fans isn't good for a rad.. Quiet fans are great for a media PC, where the CPU and GPU is just enuff to make movie magic.

Do the research on fans. My AP-15's at 900 RPM is quiet, silent I'd say. They have good pressure ratings, see my sig.

[Justintoxicated]

I'll look into them, but I know the 38mm thick panaflos have VERY decent static pressure, and SP120's are the high pressure version too. http://www.frozencpu.com/products/19641/fan-1237/Corsair_Air_Series_SP120_Quiet_Edition_High_Static _Pressure_120mm_PWM_Fan_-_2_Pack_CO-9050012-WW.html

Panaflos used to be king, but that was back in the day, and they have always been hard to find wired. Maybe not the most absolute quiet, but they do produce a soothing noise and AFAIK they are rated very high for static pressure.

Now the SP120's are high static pressure too, but obviously there probably some limitations since they are not 38mm thick, however the limitations might go away if I were to double up on them if you pay the price?

AP-15's are probably indeed silent but I don't mind a slight noise, plus I have a fan controller than can handle 8 panaflos.

[Justintoxicated]

I'm considering getting 1 XSPC RX 480 and 1 Blackice GTX 480 rad now because the price is right. I'm hesitant on the Black Ice though, although I generally run my fans around 1200RPM so it should be ok, and if I'm gaming or otherwise have no problems cranking the L1BX's up to 1800 RPMs. Would it make sense to get one of each type though?

[stren]

I'm considering getting 1 XSPC RX 480 and 1 Blackice GTX 480 rad now because the price is right. I'm hesitant on the Black Ice though, although I generally run my fans around 1200RPM so it should be ok, and if I'm gaming or otherwise have no problems cranking the L1BX's up to 1800 RPMs. Would it make sense to get one of each type though?

The RX480 will be decent at 1200-1800rpm, the BI not so much, though it's starting to improve at the higher end. If you're happy with the panaflos then keep them. I wouldn't bother changing them unless you're moving to something with better noise to radiator airflow ratio. But bear in mind type of noise too. Make sure to listen to some of Martin's fan videos because some 42dBA of whine might be more annoying than 42dBA of drone or vice versa depending on your ears. Martin has excellent data on all of this, with this perhaps being the most useful plot:

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/1977/ra7sstreamhvvsall.png

[Justintoxicated]

Oh I'm definitely keeping the Panaflos I already have, I don't care if they are a forgotten fan of yesteryear. Is my best bet to buy the same fans for a second radiator though? The downside to the panaflos is there is not enough space to run them in push/pull, though they probably don't need it as much as most other fans.

Basically I was thinking something like Panaflos on the Black Ice, with more L1BX on the XSPC or Sp120's in push pull. Or just forget about the Black Ice all together since I don't like noisy fans.

[stren]

Oh I'm definitely keeping the Panaflos I already have, I don't care if they are a forgotten fan of yesteryear. Is my best bet to buy the same fans for a second radiator though? The downside to the panaflos is there is not enough space to run them in push/pull, though they probably don't need it as much as most other fans.

Basically I was thinking something like Panaflos on the Black Ice, with more L1BX on the XSPC or Sp120's in push pull. Or just forget about the Black Ice all together since I don't like noisy fans.

If you have the money and space and need to buy fans anyway I would get AP15s, if you can get a better rad than the BI then do, if not, it's not horrible at 1800rpm :)

There's many ways to skin a cat :)

[Justintoxicated]

Yea I might get it and just hook the panaflos to it, even at 1200 rpm it isn't too bad.

I can see why the AP-15's are popular. In particular I'd probably look into getting this model?
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10323/

They almost have as much air/noise ratio as the Panaflo L1BX, but of course, you can use them in push / pull unlike the L1BXs in the 900D (they are way to big). I would imagine their static pressure would be less too, but probably still flow way more air in push / pull than a single L1BX. The only issue with push / pull is there might not be enough room on the bottom of the case, or the closeness of fans to the PSU might negate some of the gain. However Black Ice GTX + Panaflos down at the bottom and XSPC RX + AP-15's in push / pull at the top seems like it would work well enough if I can swing the extra cost of those fans by getting those 2 radiators used. AP-15 solution costs twice as much as L1BXs due to doubeling them up :P

I'm quickly realizing I need to cut some of my planned costs so I can buy actual Motherboards Cpu's and video cards I plan to cool lol.

[stren]

Yea I might get it and just hook the panaflos to it, even at 1200 rpm it isn't too bad.

I can see why the AP-15's are popular. In particular I'd probably look into getting this model?
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/10323/

They almost have as much air/noise ratio as the Panaflo L1BX, but of course, you can use them in push / pull unlike the L1BXs in the 900D (they are way to big). I would imagine their static pressure would be less too, but probably still flow way more air in push / pull than a single L1BX. The only issue with push / pull is there might not be enough room on the bottom of the case, or the closeness of fans to the PSU might negate some of the gain. However Black Ice GTX + Panaflos down at the bottom and XSPC RX + AP-15's in push / pull at the top seems like it would work well enough if I can swing the extra cost of those fans by getting those 2 radiators used. AP-15 solution costs twice as much as L1BXs due to doubeling them up :P

I'm quickly realizing I need to cut some of my planned costs so I can buy actual Motherboards Cpu's and video cards I plan to cool lol.

If you're looking at that plot of Martin's its nice because any static pressure measurements or rpm can be ignored, all you really care about is airflow through the radiator vs noise. AP15s are lil bit cheaper at PPCs and even cheaper at xoxide than at FCPU :)

[Justintoxicated]

If you're looking at that plot of Martin's its nice because any static pressure measurements or rpm can be ignored, all you really care about is airflow through the radiator vs noise. AP15s are lil bit cheaper at PPCs and even cheaper at xoxide than at FCPU :)

Nah I couldn't use that graph because the L1BX wasn't listed. The only Panaflo listed was a much louder version.

[Justintoxicated]

Whew I found a second RX480 :) So it looks like AP15's in push pull on the top, and the Panaflo L1BX in push only on the bottom. I think this will be very close to optimal setup. Still much more expensive though. $16x8 = $128 vs 3x17 = $68. Will the AP15's generate $60 worth of better performance? I mean I know they are quieter but I'm not sure if it will be worth the cash.

I realize the UT60 is a better radiator, but I'm not finding these popping up used. I'm looking at $125 for 2 RX480's shipped, vs $260 for new UT60s....

[lowfat]

I really don't think you'll need push pull. If you are running the GTs @ the stock 1800 rpm will be sufficient. The GT's are also enterprise level when it comes to quality. They have some of the best bearings I've seen in a fan.

[Justintoxicated]

I see so your suggesting GT's over the panaflos for noise reasons then? I mean, on top I have space to do push/pull GTs or push panaflos

[stren]

Whew I found a second RX480 :) So it looks like AP15's in push pull on the top, and the Panaflo L1BX in push only on the bottom. I think this will be very close to optimal setup. Still much more expensive though. $16x8 = $128 vs 3x17 = $68. Will the AP15's generate $60 worth of better performance? I mean I know they are quieter but I'm not sure if it will be worth the cash.

I realize the UT60 is a better radiator, but I'm not finding these popping up used. I'm looking at $125 for 2 RX480's shipped, vs $260 for new UT60s....


I see so your suggesting GT's over the panaflos for noise reasons then? I mean, on top I have space to do push/pull GTs or push panaflos

Yeah for that price I would take those RX480s. The primary thing is just getting more surface area, the difference between the radiators will be smaller. The extra money could be used for more fans.

You can run P/P or not, it depends on your budget. You can always run push now and add pull later. P/P always helps, but it costs more so its up to you. Push/Pull with AP15s an an RX4800 will be tight in the top of a 900D. I just mounted a RX360 up top with P/P low speed yates and while it fits with my R3E some boards may have clearance issues.

[lowfat]

I see so your suggesting GT's over the panaflos for noise reasons then? I mean, on top I have space to do push/pull GTs or push panaflos

I didn't mean replace the Panaflows. I was under the impression you would keep the panaflows for the old radiator and use the GTs for the new one.

[LeoAndrade]

I have 6 Sp-120 performance installed on my Black ICE GTX360 (high airflow restriction radiator) and I do get fairly good airflow with them running at 7v, absolutely no noise. Cooling performance is good. With the fans running at full speed the noise is not that loud, but you can definately hear the fans. In the other hand, cooling performance and airflow are exceptional. My gtx titan running at 1100mhz in the core peaks at 33?C (ambient temp around 19?C) running valley bench.

What I'm trying to say here is that yes, there are better fans on the market today, but the SP-120 performance is pretty good, even at speeds comparable with the SP-120 quiet. The reason that I picked them was just for the looks :D

[Justintoxicated]

You know, your probably right there, this system is completely absolutely overkill until I get my video cards, and probably even after that, pull fans can be added later. Maybe later I'll sell my Thermochill PA 120.3 and pickup more fans and just keep the extra L1BX fan I have for a spare because the fans are bound to wear out one day, especially with 7+ years on them of daily use lol. I have a feeling the fans will wear out much faster in a side mounted orientation than a flat orientation. SP120 quiets do indeed look quite nice but Looks always come second for me in cooling, In fact I think I like the look of Plain Jane 38mm thick black fans myself, gives it that heavy duty look :)

Its just hard convincing myself, that AP-15's will push almost as much air at the 38mm thick panaflows that were designed for high static pressure too.

[stren]

Here's the 900D I threw together for my workstation this weekend. The silver rad at the top is a painted RX360 in P/P with 25mm fans, it ends a few mm below the top of the motherboard which is why I was advising being cautious about clearance issues depending on motherboard layout:

http://i.imgur.com/EWZ6GQqh.jpg

[Justintoxicated]

Here's the 900D I threw together for my workstation this weekend. The silver rad at the top is a painted RX360 in P/P with 25mm fans, it ends a few mm below the top of the motherboard which is why I was advising being cautious about clearance issues depending on motherboard layout:



Is there room for push/pull on the bottom?

BTW that looks great!

Nothing wrong with being so close as long as it fits, that's exactly how I fit the Panalos + thermochill PA 120.3 in my existing build, only clears by a few mm's.

I'm probably going to get the ASUS Formula VI when it is released so there shouldn't be an issue looking at the board layout, but I'll probably just go with push only for now to save some bucks since it's so overkill already.

The hard part will be figuring out what screws to use to attach the radiator RX480 to the top.

[stren]

Is there room for push/pull on the bottom?

BTW that looks great!

Nothing wrong with being so close as long as it fits, that's exactly how I fit the Panalos + thermochill PA 120.3 in my existing build, only clears by a few mm's.

I'm probably going to get the ASUS Formula VI when it is released so there shouldn't be an issue looking at the board layout, but I'll probably just go with push only for now to save some bucks since it's so overkill already.

The hard part will be figuring out what screws to use to attach the radiator RX480 to the top.

I believe there would be with a RX480 because I think its 63mm thick? It might be close with the PSU but I think you'll have a few mm to spare.