Tubing and Coolant Choices

[bluedragon9r]

I'm planning on upgrading an older SB machine with a single 680 GTX to a new Haswell with a second 680 GTX in the upcoming 2 weeks.

Until this point I've been using clear Danger Den tubing (3/4"x1/2") and Feser One blue coolant. It's held up fairly well for a year or more, with only a little clouding of the tubing.

Anything new and improved come out in this area since a year ago? Danger Den is out of business, so I'm not sure which tubing to use. Performance PCs lists "ModMyToys" as selling the same tubing packs, but I'm not sure if it's the same stuff or not.

And I've always liked the Feser One coolant, but I don't see a lot of people using it. Is there something better out there?

Any advice you have is appreciated. I haven't dug into these topics too much in the past year, so I'm a little out of date.

[stren]

DD is out of business, but the tube was made by monsoon I think, who now supply the same stuff to PPCs as their ModMyToys line I believe. Not a particular fan of that tube though. I'll be trying primochill advanced, I've been dissatisfied with most tubing I've bought and their old pro line was decent, but this is supposedly better.

Most people don't bother with coolant to be honest. If you're looking for dyes, then mayhems' seems popular, although plenty of brands seem to have their horror stories. I'm trying EK's blood red stuff right now, we'll see how it goes....

[DarthBeavis]

DD is out of business, but the tube was made by monsoon I think, who now supply the same stuff to PPCs as their ModMyToys line I believe. Not a particular fan of that tube though. I'll be trying primochill advanced, I've been dissatisfied with most tubing I've bought and their old pro line was decent, but this is supposedly better.

Most people don't bother with coolant to be honest. If you're looking for dyes, then mayhems' seems popular, although plenty of brands seem to have their horror stories. I'm trying EK's blood red stuff right now, we'll see how it goes....Most people based on what source of statistics?

[bluedragon9r]

DD is out of business, but the tube was made by monsoon I think, who now supply the same stuff to PPCs as their ModMyToys line I believe. Not a particular fan of that tube though. I'll be trying primochill advanced, I've been dissatisfied with most tubing I've bought and their old pro line was decent, but this is supposedly better.

Most people don't bother with coolant to be honest. If you're looking for dyes, then mayhems' seems popular, although plenty of brands seem to have their horror stories. I'm trying EK's blood red stuff right now, we'll see how it goes....

If it's the same tubing (and it appears to be), then I'd recommend it. It's still in great shape after a year, it's not crystal-clear like brand new, but it's still in good shape. Just a little clouded. I just figured I'd replace it when I take everything apart anyway.

Almost every build I've seen has SOME sort of colored coolant. If you're going to have to add some antibacterial or anticorrosive anyway, you might as well add a non-conductive dye too..Or just go with a solid colored opaque tubing. That solution makes me nervous though..I like to know the tubes are full and there's no air bubbles.

[stren]

Most people based on what source of statistics?

Numbers I made up :P Just a general sense from builds in the forums that distilled plus either silver or a biocide still seems to be the most popular choice. Maybe I'm wrong though :P


If it's the same tubing (and it appears to be), then I'd recommend it. It's still in great shape after a year, it's not crystal-clear like brand new, but it's still in good shape. Just a little clouded. I just figured I'd replace it when I take everything apart anyway.

Almost every build I've seen has SOME sort of colored coolant. If you're going to have to add some antibacterial or anticorrosive anyway, you might as well add a non-conductive dye too..Or just go with a solid colored opaque tubing. That solution makes me nervous though..I like to know the tubes are full and there's no air bubbles.

Maybe I look at the wrong builds, I have seen a lot of colored coolant too, I just didn't think it was the majority yet. The old DD red tube was a bit too orange to me, I also didn't like how sticky and uber flexible it was.

Yeah I hear you, I always stick with things that work lol, I just like clear tube to stay clear and not go brown or cloudy or whatever. After I had no luck finding that I went to opaque tube but I too like to see bubbles or lack thereof. So yeah I'm venturing back to clear tube and hoping the primochill advanced will stay the way I want it to.

[lowfat]

Promochill LRT Advanced has been getting good reviews lately.

As for coolant and dye you generally can't go wrong with Mayhems.

[DarthBeavis]

Numbers I made up :P Just a general sense from builds in the forums that distilled plus either silver or a biocide still seems to be the most popular choice. Maybe I'm wrong though :P

Most water-cooled builds are probably not even posted on forums. Heck, most water-cooled builds are all-in-one units. I am not disagreeing on your suggestions I just think neither you or I or anything here can make sweeping statements. Now you can, with authority, say that most of the build logs you have seen use DI.

On a related note: I wonder what we will find now that so many of us are using acrylic hard lines with colored coolant. Do you think the hard lines will be stained? Since you are Mr Testy Testerson, you should hook up a test with different brands of coolants and have side-by-side comparisons of clear tube and hard-lines.

[Martinm210]

Most water-cooled builds are probably not even posted on forums. Heck, most water-cooled builds are all-in-one units. I am not disagreeing on your suggestions I just think neither you or I or anything here can make sweeping statements. Now you can, with authority, say that most of the build logs you have seen use DI.

On a related note: I wonder what we will find now that so many of us are using acrylic hard lines with colored coolant. Do you think the hard lines will be stained? Since you are Mr Testy Testerson, you should hook up a test with different brands of coolants and have side-by-side comparisons of clear tube and hard-lines.

We can make any sweeping statements we want..because we can...:)

If someone is looking for advice give them something that will help. Encouraging the use of dyes is not one I will do. Yes, that is based on my own personal testing experience over several years trying different things. All dyes require more loop maintenance and all stain some amount and all fade over time. I have run distilled + nuke water loops for 2+ years with nothing more than topping off and blowing out the dust bunnies every few months. Running dyes required that I replace stained tubing on 3 month intervals.

If you want to recommend dyes or use them in your system for blings sake, why don't you test it yourself..:)

No need to test something that is unnecessarily high maintenance. With the introduction of UV colored tubing, colored acrylic and colored reservoir lighting...I have a hard time seeing any reason you couldn't build just about anything and still avoid colored fluids and get the same or better colored effect. I have some UV colored tubing I've used in systems and test rigs now that has been in use for over 4 years now and looks practically new still. I'm sure some colored acrylic tubing would be better IMHO.

That's not to say there isn't a place for them, just not something I run long term due to the extra maintenance involved.

[DarthBeavis]

We can make any sweeping statements we want..because we can...:)



Not a good choice if you want to keep credibility ;) In your line of work I would think being factual would be of the highest importance bit then I build systems verses testing.

[Martinm210]

Technically, we are in an enthusiast water cooling forum. Extreme systems with a majority of users interested in custom watercooling and maximum performance. You do not see masses of AIO or CLC users here. The audience is therefore one that wants peak performance, minimal maintenance, and visually extreme that average AIO or CLC kits can't provide.

With that I feel very comfortable supporting the statement 100%. Most extreme users with years of experience have found that your lowest maintenance and highest performance comes from cooling with a distilled water based coolant and tend to steer clear of colored coolants. The specific heat value and thermal conductivity of distilled water is practically as good as it gets. Less can be more when it comes to coolant.

Showcase building and testing are the same in that they are both making a recommendation. People will assume because you used it in your build that it is good. If it turns out that it works poorly, you can loose credibility much the same. You too are just as responsible to build with good solutions as it says a message much the same. Actually I would say even more so. Testing discusses and quantifies the good and bad and spells it out, where builds for the most part simply say look at this, this is the best stuff you can buy, you need this. It recommends the parts and pieces included in the build as being one that you personally recommend as good.

Specific heat, thermal conductivity, and a naturally occuring solution that can not break down seems to support water as the king. Furthermore we have years of testing to show this to be true. Distilled water plus a biocide is without a doubt the best performing and lowest maintenance solution for custom cooling users that have higher levels of experience.

Physical properties backed by extensive testing to provide a solid recommendation.

That is more that credible, it is simply good sound advice. Something that will typically yield a better long term result that is ideally tailored to the predominant audience in this forum.

Reviewers speak in numbers and quantitative/qualitative analysis.
System builders use art as their method of communicating.
Both speak a message, and both make many statements in their own format.

With all that said, when did you become "Mr Sweeping Statement Cop"? :D

[Conumdrum]

Darth, your builds are not normal and outside the usual builds. Yes, you are the 1% when it comes to watercooling/modding PC's.

You get stuff free, build all day and night. The other 99% build a WC PC and use it.

So your worry about Martins sweeping statement is just Noise from the 1%, has no use in real life PC usage. Have a nice day.

Distilled water and a biocide for the 99%. You use whatever you like in your awesome builds.

[DarthBeavis]

Technically, we are in an enthusiast water cooling forum. Extreme systems with a majority of users interested in custom watercooling and maximum performance. You do not see masses of AIO or CLC users here. The audience is therefore one that wants peak performance, minimal maintenance, and visually extreme that average AIO or CLC kits can't provide.

With that I feel very comfortable supporting the statement 100%. Most extreme users with years of experience have found that your lowest maintenance and highest performance comes from cooling with a distilled water based coolant and tend to steer clear of colored coolants. The specific heat value and thermal conductivity of distilled water is practically as good as it gets. Less can be more when it comes to coolant.

Showcase building and testing are the same in that they are both making a recommendation. People will assume because you used it in your build that it is good. If it turns out that it works poorly, you can loose credibility much the same. You too are just as responsible to build with good solutions as it says a message much the same. Actually I would say even more so. Testing discusses and quantifies the good and bad and spells it out, where builds for the most part simply say look at this, this is the best stuff you can buy, you need this. It recommends the parts and pieces included in the build as being one that you personally recommend as good.

Specific heat, thermal conductivity, and a naturally occuring solution that can not break down seems to support water as the king. Furthermore we have years of testing to show this to be true. Distilled water plus a biocide is without a doubt the best performing and lowest maintenance solution for custom cooling users that have higher levels of experience.

Physical properties backed by extensive testing to provide a solid recommendation.

That is more that credible, it is simply good sound advice. Something that will typically yield a better long term result that is ideally tailored to the predominant audience in this forum.

Reviewers speak in numbers and quantitative/qualitative analysis.
System builders use art as their method of communicating.
Both speak a message, and both make many statements in their own format.

With all that said, when did you become "Mr Sweeping Statement Cop"? :D


I am very careful with my verbiage as I am a college instructor (and yes, water-cooling is included in my curriculum). Add to that the fact that I (as well as Stren and you) work with vendors and system integrators. If you sit in one of my
lectures of watch one of my media interviews you will see I am careful about what I recommend and am clear about using colored coolants with specific intent. Again, my point is that when Stren says "Most people don't bother with coolant to be honest" That is saying 51% or higher of all builders who use ala cart water-cooling do not use a coolant product. I also have taken graduate level statistics so I really listen when claims are made to ascertain their accuracy. I am sorry if I am getting hung up on the specific wording but words have specific meaning.

You guys know I, of all people, will take a hardcore stand and will pay the price (hence my ban from here over the EK blocks). Overtime I have learned to chill a bit and to not think in terms of black and white. I am even friends with the guys from Thermaltake now.

[DarthBeavis]

Darth, your builds are not normal and outside the usual builds. Yes, you are the 1% when it comes to watercooling/modding PC's.

You get stuff free, build all day and night. The other 99% build a WC PC and use it.

So your worry about Martins sweeping statement is just Noise from the 1%, has no use in real life PC usage. Have a nice day.

Distilled water and a biocide for the 99%. You use whatever you like in your awesome builds.

http://usaction.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/man-with-99-sign-marching-for-occupy-wall-street-in-nyc.jpg

[stren]

I am very careful with my verbiage as I am a college instructor (and yes, water-cooling is included in my curriculum). Add to that the fact that I (as well as Stren and you) work with vendors and system integrators. If you sit in one of my
lectures of watch one of my media interviews you will see I am careful about what I recommend and am clear about using colored coolants with specific intent. Again, my point is that when Stren says "Most people don't bother with coolant to be honest" That is saying 51% or higher of all builders who use ala cart water-cooling do not use a coolant product. I also have taken graduate level statistics so I really listen when claims are made to ascertain their accuracy. I am sorry if I am getting hung up on the specific wording but words have specific meaning.

You guys know I, of all people, will take a hardcore stand and will pay the price (hence my ban from here over the EK blocks). Overtime I have learned to chill a bit and to not think in terms of black and white. I am even friends with the guys from Thermaltake now.

I guess I just assumed that people knew this was a generalization with no statistics to back it up, afterall how would I have statistics on this? I don't think that such a statement affects my credibility, I'm not endorsing a particular product or manufacturer or specifying that something is unsafe or safe. I thought it was clear that it was a "on my travels this is what I've seen and YMMV". I try to be very clear and scientific when I can about my experiences, but this was a question that I interpreted to be about "where does the community stand in general" and each of us has a different interaction with different parts of the community.

Testing dyes and coolants is something I'd like to do at some point, but it's an expensive task, particularly if things go wrong. You need a lot of equipment running for a long period of time, and if things get gunked up or stained then you might not be able to even reuse that hardware. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to get unlimited amounts of HW to do this kind of testing yet :p

[DarthBeavis]

I guess I just assumed that people knew this was a generalization with no statistics to back it up, afterall how would I have statistics on this? I don't think that such a statement affects my credibility, I'm not endorsing a particular product or manufacturer or specifying that something is unsafe or safe. I thought it was clear that it was a "on my travels this is what I've seen and YMMV". I try to be very clear and scientific when I can about my experiences, but this was a question that I interpreted to be about "where does the community stand in general" and each of us has a different interaction with different parts of the community.

Testing dyes and coolants is something I'd like to do at some point, but it's an expensive task, particularly if things go wrong. You need a lot of equipment running for a long period of time, and if things get gunked up or stained then you might not be able to even reuse that hardware. Unfortunately I'm not in a position to get unlimited amounts of HW to do this kind of testing yet :p

I have a bunch of coolants even from back in the day (Fluid XP) so if you decide to do it I will donate my stock. I also have some clear acrylic hard lines I can send you as well.

[Conumdrum]

Most water-cooled builds are probably not even posted on forums. Heck, most water-cooled builds are all-in-one units. I am not disagreeing on your suggestions I just think neither you or I or anything here can make sweeping statements. Now you can, with authority, say that most of the build logs you have seen use DI.

On a related note: I wonder what we will find now that so many of us are using acrylic hard lines with colored coolant. Do you think the hard lines will be stained? Since you are Mr Testy Testerson, you should hook up a test with different brands of coolants and have side-by-side comparisons of clear tube and hard-lines.

I colored the important parts for you Darth to prove a point. Your making blanket assumptions within your current level of what you read and care about. Which is world class building.

And a blanket statement comes forth. 'So many of us'. Us is who? Us is again the 1%. And your giving Martin a hard time? He helps folks like me and many others in the trenches who need to learn. All you do, and do very well is show the very top of the skill, like the $1,000,000 IPhone for Paris Hilton. You don't need to get yourself involved in these lowly discussions of the best stuff for the common watercooling Joe Blow. You moved past that 5++ years ago.

Your assuming that the general populace due to your position in the modding world thinks everyone is going to it. That's very common. It's how the brain works and what you are exposed to. When is the last time you spent hours on a normal WC forum with regular watercoolers, Joe Blow types? Your past that and I applaud you for your skills etc.

You even pay attention to the lowly first time watercooler who brings a lame assed rig to a event anymore? Or just do the interview?

Buddy your outta touch with the masses, the normal watercoolers. And that comes with success, and I have no issue with that. Keep making beautiful rigs.

[Martinm210]

I was just poking back and having a little fun...thought DB might bite..:)

Hasn't changed my opinion on dyes though, I use good old grocery store distilled wate and my PTnuke for all my long term builds. I see a place for coolants to retain warranty on nickel plated products but generally forgo warranty and run distilled anyway. It just works best for me.

Speaking of tubing/colors, have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1397988/new-primochill-rigid-tubing

Primochill is now coming out with a new colored hard acrylic system that looks really promising.

Check it out..:)

[Conumdrum]

Tubing isn't the issue. It's blocks clogging etc, long term staining.......

Thanks Martin, you do so well in diffusing issues.

It's more a human thing this time and how we think, not the science issues. I can't, you can't as well as Darth discount the science of what works the best for normal real world watercooling usage or what is used in otherworldly builds. Outside my experience for sure.

All about the perceptions within each of our small worlds and how we express our experience envelopes with other envelopes. What we perceive as normal vs the reality.

[paulbagz]

Speaking of tubing/colors, have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1397988/new-primochill-rigid-tubing

Primochill is now coming out with a new colored hard acrylic system that looks really promising.

Check it out..:)

Horry :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: that looks awesome!

Hard tube for the masses, bout time!

-PB

[DarthBeavis]

I was just poking back and having a little fun...thought DB might bite..:)

Hasn't changed my opinion on dyes though, I use good old grocery store distilled wate and my PTnuke for all my long term builds. I see a place for coolants to retain warranty on nickel plated products but generally forgo warranty and run distilled anyway. It just works best for me.

Speaking of tubing/colors, have you guys seen this yet?
http://www.overclock.net/t/1397988/new-primochill-rigid-tubing

Primochill is now coming out with a new colored hard acrylic system that looks really promising.

Check it out..:)

I am gonna use their new stuff for finishing my Queen of Blades build. Fittings and hard lines should be on their way

[DarthBeavis]

I colored the important parts for you Darth to prove a point. Your making blanket assumptions within your current level of what you read and care about. Which is world class building.

And a blanket statement comes forth. 'So many of us'. Us is who? Us is again the 1%. And your giving Martin a hard time? He helps folks like me and many others in the trenches who need to learn. All you do, and do very well is show the very top of the skill, like the $1,000,000 IPhone for Paris Hilton. You don't need to get yourself involved in these lowly discussions of the best stuff for the common watercooling Joe Blow. You moved past that 5++ years ago.

Your assuming that the general populace due to your position in the modding world thinks everyone is going to it. That's very common. It's how the brain works and what you are exposed to. When is the last time you spent hours on a normal WC forum with regular watercoolers, Joe Blow types? Your past that and I applaud you for your skills etc.

You even pay attention to the lowly first time watercooler who brings a lame assed rig to a event anymore? Or just do the interview?

Buddy your outta touch with the masses, the normal watercoolers. And that comes with success, and I have no issue with that. Keep making beautiful rigs.

There is a huge difference when a person says 'many' and when a person says 'most'. Many is vague and can mean any number. Most is specific and means a majority ;)

Also, I am not out of touch with the masses. I am better in touch than most of you because I actually get to meet MANY of them face-to-face and discuss water-cooling when I work events (and I help MANY people via pm and emails). You guys do not even have a clue as to what I have done during my XS hiatus. I have one build on Youtube with around 348k views ;) I am not the one in a bubble.

[Martinm210]

IMHO, you are not a real man until you've raised kids and changed at least 1,000 poopy diapers all while working 50+ hour weeks at a day to day job. Do all that while getting up at 3am to mix a bottle to relieve your better half so she can get a few hours of rest. now get up at 5am so you can go to a REAL job to support paying for the roof you put over their heads and putting food on the table. Unfortunately the poopy diaper count is not digital, but by the number of grey hairs on my head, I think I have met the quota...:)

Let's get busy building something all I hear is talk with no show..;)

Speaking of real world, I have a build going now I'd like to share. It's called gutting my bathroom down to the subfloor and suds due to a poorly designed shower step. New tub and surround along with 1-1/2" ABS drain pipe and soldered 1/2" copper supply lines to the new mixing valve. Putting in sheetrock, new tile floors, new vanity, all new plumbin. No contractors, all done with my own two hands..a REAL water piping build. Perhaps not for PC cooling but a REAL project for sure that serves REAL practical daily use.

I call it "the bathroom" build..;) I get at least a dozen "in person" views per day(mostly just my kids or wife as they check on progress or hand me a tool when I'm down in the crawl space and need something), but in the end our new renters starting July 1st and their new baby boy will cherish many life memories in this new build of mine. It will be used daily and will serve practical daily use by not only thier family but also their friends and guests for many years to come. It will serve REAL practical use for many for many years to come.

It may not get a million youtube views, but ask yourself is youtube really a measure of life success or is it failure?

I personally find it sad when people start considering facebook friends count or internet hits some sort of success. It is more of a "goofing off" measure than anything for me.

I know I spend way too much time on the net, but I certainly am not going to consider post count or website hits or youtube views anything good. It's a hobby, nothing more and certainly not what I use to define success. My 2c

Ok enough measuring our insecurity. Tubing and colors right... I want to try some of the primochill hard acrylic. Colored too so I can use a REAL man's coolant..clear water..;)

[stren]

:eek: It appears that I'm not a real man.... yet....must track down that wife and impregnate! BRB!



I have a bunch of coolants even from back in the day (Fluid XP) so if you decide to do it I will donate my stock. I also have some clear acrylic hard lines I can send you as well.

Thanks yeah I have such a backlog of stuff to do right now that I'm probably full for the rest of the year at my current pace :rolleyes:

[bluedragon9r]

Well, while I appear to have ignited more controversy than intended, I went with some XSPC FLX tubing (because I've had good luck with XSPC stuff in the past) and my old standby of Feser One blue fluid...

I will say the original DangerDen "Dreamflex" was pretty good with the blue coolant. It's only a little clouded, and I think some of that may be on the outside. These tubes were a bit "tacky", and they have picked up some dust over the past year or more. When I do this rebuild next week, I'll wipe the outsides with some rubbing alcohol and see how much is inside and how much is outside.

I do disagree with stren's comment that most people don't bother with coolant..Seems that every shop sells a whole lot of dyes, additives and premixes. Someone must be buying it or they wouldn't have such variety. While I doubt any of it is better performing than pure DI water, it's always good to have the anti-corrosives and biocides in the mix. And if you're going to have LED lighting, clear tubes and reservoirs, why not add a little dye for color?

[Martinm210]

Lol..just kidding!!!

My beef has mostly been due to certain places marketing and selling overpriced coolant. I could care less if it's water or coolant but there has been a history of marketing snake oils that were reportedly better than water and super-nano-soda-ultra-quadruple-distilled water that was being sold for $20/L. I completely understand shipping of heavy fluid is expensive, but there is no reason to rob people and charge $20/bottle for colored water.

It wasn't until Skinnee did his fluid tests
http://skinneelabs.com/coolantfluid-roundup-thermal-performance/

before people finally came around and based decisions on real scientific data. Too many flashy builds with Koolaide in them made people misunderstand fluids and coolants and they generally believed it was better.

Anyhow, I'll get off my soap box now but distilled water + PTnuke or alternative copper sulfate biocide is all I will ever use long term.

Too many awesome colored UV tubing and now colored hard acrylic options too.

[stren]

Lol..just kidding!!!

My beef has mostly been due to certain places marketing and selling overpriced coolant. I could care less if it's water or coolant but there has been a history of marketing snake oils that were reportedly better than water and super-nano-soda-ultra-quadruple-distilled water that was being sold for $20/L. I completely understand shipping of heavy fluid is expensive, but there is no reason to rob people and charge $20/bottle for colored water.

It wasn't until Skinnee did his fluid tests
http://skinneelabs.com/coolantfluid-roundup-thermal-performance/

before people finally came around and based decisions on real scientific data. Too many flashy builds with Koolaide in them made people misunderstand fluids and coolants and they generally believed it was better.

Anyhow, I'll get off my soap box now but distilled water + PTnuke or alternative copper sulfate biocide is all I will ever use long term.

Too many awesome colored UV tubing and now colored hard acrylic options too.

Yeah I hear you, and I applaud those companies who sell cheaper concentrates for dilution. I too use DI in my long term low maintenance loops because that's what I trust. I'm also switching out any high FPI rads for low FPI rads because I don't want to clean dust as often either lulz. I'm experimenting with dyes really as an experiment, but I'm not yet willing to commit to anything serious until I've tried it on "disposable parts" for a while ;)


Well, while I appear to have ignited more controversy than intended, I went with some XSPC FLX tubing (because I've had good luck with XSPC stuff in the past) and my old standby of Feser One blue fluid...

I will say the original DangerDen "Dreamflex" was pretty good with the blue coolant. It's only a little clouded, and I think some of that may be on the outside. These tubes were a bit "tacky", and they have picked up some dust over the past year or more. When I do this rebuild next week, I'll wipe the outsides with some rubbing alcohol and see how much is inside and how much is outside.

I do disagree with stren's comment that most people don't bother with coolant..Seems that every shop sells a whole lot of dyes, additives and premixes. Someone must be buying it or they wouldn't have such variety. While I doubt any of it is better performing than pure DI water, it's always good to have the anti-corrosives and biocides in the mix. And if you're going to have LED lighting, clear tubes and reservoirs, why not add a little dye for color?

I agree that there is plenty of coolant out there, and I think it has been growing a lot in the past few years, mainly spurred by mayhem's success. However there have also been new biocides and silver products (e.g. Monsoon's Silver Bullet) too which implies that there's still a market for those. You can't prove anything based on items that a store sells without any quantities. Plus silver or a bottle of biocide can normally be used multiple times, so quantities sold wouldn't even prove anything either.

The fact is none of us have any statistics to back up our gut feelings. It should be obvious to all that these are no more than gut feelings and as usual the answer most likely lies somewhere in the middle between the "extremes" of our views :P I also apologize if my statement of most should have been many :P I'll be more careful with my words next time!


http://youtu.be/68BrauMLt_0

[DarthBeavis]

Reading comprehension issues abound. I was not even defending the use of coolants I just took issue with how the statement was worded. Martin, you may not have the direct reach some of us have but your work reaches everyone I ever communicate with as you have had a heavy impact on water-cooling. I was merely pointing out I am in touch with the community beyond this forum. I have a deep respect for what you have done for us.

[DarthBeavis]

Yeah I hear you, and I applaud those companies who sell cheaper concentrates for dilution. I too use DI in my long term low maintenance loops because that's what I trust. I'm also switching out any high FPI rads for low FPI rads because I don't want to clean dust as often either lulz. I'm experimenting with dyes really as an experiment, but I'm not yet willing to commit to anything serious until I've tried it on "disposable parts" for a while ;)



I agree that there is plenty of coolant out there, and I think it has been growing a lot in the past few years, mainly spurred by mayhem's success. However there have also been new biocides and silver products (e.g. Monsoon's Silver Bullet) too which implies that there's still a market for those. You can't prove anything based on items that a store sells without any quantities. Plus silver or a bottle of biocide can normally be used multiple times, so quantities sold wouldn't even prove anything either.

The fact is none of us have any statistics to back up our gut feelings. It should be obvious to all that these are no more than gut feelings and as usual the answer most likely lies somewhere in the middle between the "extremes" of our views :P I also apologize if my statement of most should have been many :P I'll be more careful with my words next time!


http://youtu.be/68BrauMLt_0its all good and I appreciate the countless hours you put in to keep the hobby moving forward. There is no one right way or wrong way to watercool just different best practices depending on your goals and limitations.

[Martinm210]

Fair enough, I misunderstood. Carry on with the extreme building!! :)

I seriously have to try some of that hard acrylic line stuff. That looks too much fun and could see someone with enogh creative talent (which I have very little) taking that to new levels. Heck, you could even create neon like art with hard lines and do much more than just connect up the loop.

[Conumdrum]

Thanks Darth, I'll take the 'your in touch with the guy who spends $500 on a CPU/Single GPU loop and works 12 hours a day and has weekends off to work on the PC'.:shrug:

I think we really are not that far apart. Don't forget the market for WC, and your not in it yet?

And please build a normal rig with top stuff that will be cool and comfortable for two years. No rebuild, no drain, been perfect. You can ask me more. I have one.

[Conumdrum]

Reading comprehension issues abound. I was not even defending the use of coolants I just took issue with how the statement was worded. Martin, you may not have the direct reach some of us have but your work reaches everyone I ever communicate with as you have had a heavy impact on water-cooling. I was merely pointing out I am in touch with the community beyond this forum. I have a deep respect for what you have done for us.

To fix: "Martin, you may not have the direct reach some of us have". To who? Direct to the .5% master builders? Community meaning the few who do extreme builds? Few. Worldwide. Few. Most of us look at your pics and go wow. And get back to normal daily life and budgets.

[DarthBeavis]

Thanks Darth, I'll take the 'your in touch with the guy who spends $500 on a CPU/Single GPU loop and works 12 hours a day and has weekends off to work on the PC'.:shrug:

I think we really are not that far apart. Don't forget the market for WC, and your not in it yet?

And please build a normal rig with top stuff that will be cool and comfortable for two years. No rebuild, no drain, been perfect. You can ask me more. I have one.

I so do not understand where you are going or what your point is.

[Rinaun]

If someone is looking for advice give them something that will help. Encouraging the use of dyes is not one I will do. Yes, that is based on my own personal testing experience over several years trying different things. All dyes require more loop maintenance and all stain some amount and all fade over time. I have run distilled + nuke water loops for 2+ years with nothing more than topping off and blowing out the dust bunnies every few months. Running dyes required that I replace stained tubing on 3 month intervals.

If you want to recommend dyes or use them in your system for blings sake, why don't you test it yourself..:)


I see no issue with the dyes discoloring/staining the tubing. I knew my glycol based coolant was going to stain my tubing when I first put it in, but it doesn't stain anything else. Tubing is also incredibly cheap compared to the rest of the rig and most if not all dyes will stain if used long term at high heats. On running water+ptnuke: I've had luck with distilled water+ptnuke......and I've also had horrid results with distilled water and ptnuke. Watercooling parts aren't manufactured in cleanrooms, and most of them sit in damp dark warehouses for long periods until sale. I also like to know 4-5 years from now if I keep it topped I'll have no issues, even if it IS exposed somehow to bacteria/spores/algae. I use a Glycol based additive (a few tablespoons of Mercedes Benz Orange Antifreeze) and I've had no issues with any part of my loop sans very slight tube staining in the 3-4 years I've owned the blocks and pump. I've seen dyes for watercooling go bad and solidify, but I've never seen car antifreeze do that, even after 20-30 years sitting in a container. Yes, the more glycol you add, the less thermal dissipation the water has.


No need to test something that is unnecessarily high maintenance. With the introduction of UV colored tubing, colored acrylic and colored reservoir lighting...I have a hard time seeing any reason you couldn't build just about anything and still avoid colored fluids and get the same or better colored effect. I have some UV colored tubing I've used in systems and test rigs now that has been in use for over 4 years now and looks practically new still. I'm sure some colored acrylic tubing would be better IMHO.

That's not to say there isn't a place for them, just not something I run long term due to the extra maintenance involved.

I have to disagree. It's really really hard to keep the same look if you are using uv colored tubing and acrylic, compared to me buying all transparent acrylic/windowed parts and using my own dyes. Antifreeze is also made in almost every color, so dyes for me is as simple as going to the gas station and asking the attendant which brand is which color.

[Conumdrum]

You can disagree it's the 'Internet'.

You continue with your way, we'll go ours.

[Kougar]

Well, while I appear to have ignited more controversy than intended, I went with some XSPC FLX tubing (because I've had good luck with XSPC stuff in the past) and my old standby of Feser One blue fluid...

I will say the original DangerDen "Dreamflex" was pretty good with the blue coolant. It's only a little clouded, and I think some of that may be on the outside. These tubes were a bit "tacky", and they have picked up some dust over the past year or more. When I do this rebuild next week, I'll wipe the outsides with some rubbing alcohol and see how much is inside and how much is outside.

I do disagree with stren's comment that most people don't bother with coolant..Seems that every shop sells a whole lot of dyes, additives and premixes. Someone must be buying it or they wouldn't have such variety. While I doubt any of it is better performing than pure DI water, it's always good to have the anti-corrosives and biocides in the mix. And if you're going to have LED lighting, clear tubes and reservoirs, why not add a little dye for color?

Just did a new build and first time I've used anything other than common vinyl tubing or cheap stuff that came with my first radiator.... and holy mother of watercooling, that DD Dreamflex tubing is like gold to work with. I can't imagine how tubing could get any better, but I didn't exactly realize people reviewed just tubing either... :eek: If your XSPC tubing is the same quality of that dreamflex stuff then ya should be just fine!

So can anyone else confirm, Monsoon makes the Dreamflex tubing and sells their own?

[DarthBeavis]

To fix: "Martin, you may not have the direct reach some of us have". To who? Direct to the .5% master builders? Community meaning the few who do extreme builds? Few. Worldwide. Few. Most of us look at your pics and go wow. And get back to normal daily life and budgets.

Reach starts on page 47 (July issue). Let's end the snarkyness bro . . .you know you and I will be getting drunk together next CES.
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