Stren's Titan Water Block Roundup

[stren]

Finally got the full write up and video done:

write up: http://www.xtremerigs.net/reviews/water-cooling/nvidia-titan-water-block-roundup-coming-soon/

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDyYliSo-Hw

Card became unstable at the operating point after 20ish mounts so I couldn't run as many data points as I'd like.

Bitspower, Alphacool and Phobya agreed to send blocks but I gave up on waiting.

The review contains AquaComptuer, EK, EVGA/Swiftech, Koolance, Watercool, XSPC :)

[LeoAndrade]

That's nice. Looking foward to see the results, specially koolance and aquacomputer blocks

[mbreslin]

Anecdotal but after many hours of benching/game playing with my max oc (1202mhz@1.212v) during the hottest day we've had so far with the ek blocks I got max 42c on 2 cards in parallel. Titan seems to run very cool and I can't wait to see just how low the best block in your review's temp is.

[stren]

Anecdotal but after many hours of benching/game playing with my max oc (1202mhz@1.212v) during the hottest day we've had so far with the ek blocks I got max 42c on 2 cards in parallel. Titan seems to run very cool and I can't wait to see just how low the best block in your review's temp is.

Yup I'm expecting most blocks will perform very well with good flow. We'll see though, I want to try some low flow testing too for those who run many gpus in parallel. I'll also try and compare as best I can vs air and an AIO cooler too.

[paulbagz]

Honestly didn't know half those manufactures were making Titty (lol) blocks

-PB

[tiborrr]

Alright! EK's model should be in your nest already, correct? :)

[Martinm210]

Look forward to your work, I just hope it ends better than Skinnees 480 roundup which resulted in a dead 480. Unlike a CPU it seems all the testing abuse on GPUs is less tolerated. The word "Loan" would bother me but hopefully the GPU's have gotten better since the 480 days. That has been my hesitation with trying it, have seen too many issues with GPU blocks having little issues here and there and just feel it's a bit risky to put a card through the ringer like that unless someone was going to sponsor potentially losing the card. I've killed enough motherboards on my own by now just with CPU testing, 2011 is the first to seem durable enough to handle it with the build in back plate. GPU i would be very cautious with. Maybe do some visual TIM and thermal pad contact checks before hard benching or something and also ensure standoffs avoid bending the pcb at all and verify backplates do not make any circuit contact somehow...etc.

Would be awesome to see some low flow data. With the AIO units and with triple parallel, I don't think it is unusual to see really low flow rates down in the .3gpm range.v With most DIY CPU blocks falling off at .5gpm with their more dense fin structure, I would think GPU blocks suffer more rapidly and the practice of triple parallel is something that should be questioned more. Not much GPU flow sensitivy data out there right now, so it would be a huge hole filled.

[.::NeO::.]

Awesome news Stren :up:

Can't wait to see what Watercool wb will look and perform like.

Again, a big thank-you for all your hard work. You rock! :up:

[stren]

Alright! EK's model should be in your nest already, correct? :)

It's on it's way, but it hasn't arrived yet :) I have a feeling Koolance might beat you to my door just because they have a 6000 mile advantage lol. Also Aquacomputer's is already in the country so that might show up today. I hadn't seen a picture of it here but a quick google gave me this:

http://content.hwigroup.net/images/news/aquacomputer_kryographics_gtx_titan_01.jpg

I have to give it to aqua and watercool they really pull off the two tone metal look well. No one else has shipped yet though and it doesn't sound like most will be ready for another few weeks.


Honestly didn't know half those manufactures were making Titty (lol) blocks

-PB

Neither did I until I asked them, most of them have been pretty quiet about their blocks! Liquid Extasy would have participated too but they need a loaned Titan themselves to design it in the first place.


Look forward to your work, I just hope it ends better than Skinnees 480 roundup which resulted in a dead 480. Unlike a CPU it seems all the testing abuse on GPUs is less tolerated. The word "Loan" would bother me but hopefully the GPU's have gotten better since the 480 days. That has been my hesitation with trying it, have seen too many issues with GPU blocks having little issues here and there and just feel it's a bit risky to put a card through the ringer like that unless someone was going to sponsor potentially losing the card. I've killed enough motherboards on my own by now just with CPU testing, 2011 is the first to seem durable enough to handle it with the build in back plate. GPU i would be very cautious with. Maybe do some visual TIM and thermal pad contact checks before hard benching or something and also ensure standoffs avoid bending the pcb at all and verify backplates do not make any circuit contact somehow...etc.

Would be awesome to see some low flow data. With the AIO units and with triple parallel, I don't think it is unusual to see really low flow rates down in the .3gpm range.v With most DIY CPU blocks falling off at .5gpm with their more dense fin structure, I would think GPU blocks suffer more rapidly and the practice of triple parallel is something that should be questioned more. Not much GPU flow sensitivy data out there right now, so it would be a huge hole filled.

Yes I hope I don't break the card too - these are not cheap cards lol. I myself run triple parallel on my 580s and it has been on my mind when I was thinking about adding a fourth card. Now I've been thinking about splitting my cpu and gpu loop so it's also caused me to reevaluate the decision to go parallel. Before I valued my cpu temps more so I chose higher flow even if it compromised the GPU temps. Now I don't have to compomise so it'll be fun to find out what I should be doing ;) Parallel seems to be way more common these days than the past and I've seen plenty of 4 way parallel setups with weaker pumps that worried me so that was definitely the inspiration behind the super low flow testing.

I may have to pick your brain on the best way to test these too as this is my first GPU roundup :)


Awesome news Stren :up:

Can't wait to see what Watercool wb will look and perform like.

Again, a big thank-you for all your hard work. You rock! :up:

Me too - I have something else coming from Watercool soon too that will be interesting too :D I haven't done any real work apart from lots of emails yet though!

[bds71]

...particularly EVGA who are loaning a Titan

i've always had really high opinion on EVGA. had a couple issues with some of their cards, and their customer service was absolutely great. good on 'em!! glad someone was able to get a card like this for testing - should be interesting to see what this thing can really do under water....

[Yaka]

heh cant wiat for the round up

[Church]

stren: slight offtopic, but for 4-way it's best to have semi-hybrid (2parallel-serial-2parallel) = you get both not too high pressure drop and more reasonable 1/2 of flow per card instead of 1/4. IIRC EK thought about this as well and has released such bridge (http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-fc-terminal-quad-semi-parallel.html). Well, can be done simply using fittings too.

[stren]

i've always had really high opinion on EVGA. had a couple issues with some of their cards, and their customer service was absolutely great. good on 'em!! glad someone was able to get a card like this for testing - should be interesting to see what this thing can really do under water....

+1 :)


heh cant wiat for the round up

+1 :)


stren: slight offtopic, but for 4-way it's best to have semi-hybrid (2parallel-serial-2parallel) = you get both not too high pressure drop and more reasonable 1/2 of flow per card instead of 1/4. IIRC EK thought about this as well and has released such bridge (http://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-fc-terminal-quad-semi-parallel.html). Well, can be done simply using fittings too.

Yup I agree but for my older cards they didn't have the option it was parallel or serial I believe. Or use SLI adapters and do it yourself. I'm glad EK finally did it though. So I guess triple is probably the worst case now.

Also the Aquacomputer box just arrived, so expect photos tonight :)

[Church]

But old ones probably had that beautiful old EK bridge design :). Still sad about them not being usable on new cards <sniff>
Still, it's good thing that you will test at lower pump settings too. For most vendor many-ways bridges it might be important nfo. BTW, if you will test only at 2 preset pump or flow settings, maybe it's worth one of blocks of pin design, one of microchannels design, and one of big channels design test at more flow testpoints, so that line chart can be drawn for estimation, and for different types of designs to see which designs are more low flow agnostic. Probably can be done once per one mount, as imho relative temp drop because of flow changes should be same for all mounts? I'm somewhat interested in what lowest flow might be for gpu blocks without overly temp worsening because of low flow exactly because too-many-ways parallelizing issue. I've heard that untill 0.25gpm you should be good, but it would be nice to see full very wide flow range even below that to draw up some generalised conclusions.

[Shoggy]

By the way: on your website you wrote "Aquacomputer aquagraFX Titan Full Cover Full Cover Block" which is wrong. It must be kryographics and I also think a full cover block which is fully covered again is just a bit over the top ;)

edit: ahhh, even worse - please link to www.aquacomputer.de :)

[stren]

By the way: on your website you wrote "Aquacomputer aquagraFX Titan Full Cover Full Cover Block" which is wrong. It must be kryographics and I also think a full cover block which is fully covered again is just a bit over the top ;)

edit: ahhh, even worse - please link to www.aquacomputer.de :)

Fixed :)

[musicfan]

Thanks stren. Subscribed.

[stren]

Alright I took some quick pics though I didn't unseal the block yet as there seemed little point until I have the card from EVGA!

Aqua also sent some parts for the pump/top/reservoir roundup (http://www.xtremerigs.net/reviews/water-cooling/2012-pump-roundup/) that I'm also working on concurrently. I won't show you the rest of the pics of those parts here because I want to stay on topic, however while we're briefly off topic, I will post the pump/top/res stuff on XS in some form, I just haven't worked out exactly how I want to do it yet!

http://i.imgur.com/3pg96Sfh.jpg

Yum! Big box seems fitting for a "titan" of a card!

http://i.imgur.com/ZZQ5aorh.jpg


Proof:

http://i.imgur.com/n5oZXdFh.jpg

More proof:

http://i.imgur.com/I8jTrGPh.jpg

What you get in the box:

http://i.imgur.com/7reHLqjh.jpg

Underneath of the vacuum sealed block:

http://i.imgur.com/PfcPxj9h.jpg

TITAN:

http://i.imgur.com/yalVv2vh.jpg

The kryographics logo doesn't come out well in the photos, I think it's because of the bag that the block is in. It looks better in person:

http://i.imgur.com/BfhCxeDh.jpg

[Elmy]

That block is fn sexy!

[Martinm210]

Been a while since I have done any GPU testing too. I know skinnee did some installing of dallas probes on the card itself to get good VRM temps. Not sure what the titan has onboard. I would tend to probably stick to using the kit contents TIM and pads as that is probably how most will use them, but I'm not sure about mounting numbers etc. You might only get one shot at it depending on what comes with he block. Haven't a clue on the stress test these days.

Still have my 570gtx on air. Last GPU I had on water was an 8800 and my son stil has one running.

As far as pump/loop. A separate loop might help isolate heat and you could certainly dial down pump speeds and even install a valve if need to really dial down flow rates, but there is always a desire to see actual CPU + GPU loop testing too. Obviously you cant test Quad SLI parallel on all the blocks though so flow rate testing will have to do.

If you could test down to .3GPM that would be close. I would start with one and find a pump power that matches something close to .3gpm, .9gpm, 1.5gpm and let the restriction vary actual flow a little. Performance at like pumping power and restriction is what I like to see, then the blocks restriction is automatically factored in a bit.

[stren]

Been a while since I have done any GPU testing too. I know skinnee did some installing of dallas probes on the card itself to get good VRM temps. Not sure what the titan has onboard. I would tend to probably stick to using the kit contents TIM and pads as that is probably how most will use them, but I'm not sure about mounting numbers etc. You might only get one shot at it depending on what comes with he block. Haven't a clue on the stress test these days.

Still have my 570gtx on air. Last GPU I had on water was an 8800 and my son stil has one running.

As far as pump/loop. A separate loop might help isolate heat and you could certainly dial down pump speeds and even install a valve if need to really dial down flow rates, but there is always a desire to see actual CPU + GPU loop testing too. Obviously you cant test Quad SLI parallel on all the blocks though so flow rate testing will have to do.

If you could test down to .3GPM that would be close. I would start with one and find a pump power that matches something close to .3gpm, .9gpm, 1.5gpm and let the restriction vary actual flow a little. Performance at like pumping power and restriction is what I like to see, then the blocks restriction is automatically factored in a bit.

Interesting. Yes my flow meter only goes down to ~0.3gpm anyway, so below that people will have to infer. My original plan was to keep it similar to the CPU test i.e. multiple mounts with MX2. You've scared me away from the multiple mounts a bit though lol. I'd do a gpu and cpu loop with my usual 560 rad with 2150rpm Gentle Typhoons. I'll unpower one of the MCP35x2 pumps in order to reduce flow. I'll use the dallas probes to measure the water temp and log with wintest. The GPU temps I'm not sure how I'll be logging yet, I guess I'll play around with titan and see what options I have. I've heard a lot about it throttling unless you use a modified bios, so that's one concern. The other issue is the best way to stress test. Back in the day it was always furmark but that's gone out of favor it seems. I could loop a benchmark like unigene valley constantly and average the temps over a decent window after letting the system warm up for long enough. I'll have to poke around in the titan threads to find out more I suspect.

[stren]

Koolance Titan:

http://i.imgur.com/dntXfTCh.jpg

Mini back plate included:

http://i.imgur.com/4I1ny7Wh.jpg

Accessories

http://i.imgur.com/lxGqD1oh.jpg

Block:

http://i.imgur.com/Bn0UPeMh.jpg

Butt:

http://i.imgur.com/2EE0W5qh.jpg

Butt with backplate:

http://i.imgur.com/Fdf41xOh.jpg

Inside of backplate with marked areas for thermal pads for memory:

http://i.imgur.com/xptkH3Uh.jpg

Details:

http://i.imgur.com/WrIdphkh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/T4W7Rz4h.jpg

[stren]

EK Titan:

http://i.imgur.com/h6wYnk1h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/j6Aebf4h.jpg

Accesorize it:

http://i.imgur.com/XTro9Irh.jpg

Explosion:

http://i.imgur.com/vOo5XjXh.jpg

Nickel Plexi:

http://i.imgur.com/HHb44bMh.jpg

Butt:

http://i.imgur.com/qUugoH2h.jpg

Details:

http://i.imgur.com/9rPAYJqh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ss8cIxCh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sXdyXNOh.jpg

Backplate:

http://i.imgur.com/29oWnySh.jpg

Very simple and very few scews:

http://i.imgur.com/Wp8PRtPh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8KjlMwXh.jpg

How they would sit:

http://i.imgur.com/Y2MdENWh.jpg

With EK Blood Red coolant in it:

http://i.imgur.com/XW2h7QAh.jpg

[Church]

Stren: btw, there is one big minus to choosing titan (apart from high cost if it gets damaged during extensive testing) for roundup. It simply is not the hottest card around, unlike 480 back then at skinneelab test time :). It's 250W TDP is rather reasonable even among top cards, less the heat load = imho probably less temp difference among blocks, and even worst ones will cool good enough, no? gtx480 was nice worst case scenario (especially for testing universal gpu blocks. as in - if they are able to cool THAT, they will do for everything else thrown at them :)).

BTW only looks wise i'm glad for EK's vote/thinkcell movement result, transparent clear block brings back FC bling many liked EK for. From presented blocks theirs looks best in my eyes. Pitty it can be well seen only in inverted atx cases.

[LeoAndrade]

Show us the internals of both koolance and aquacomputer blocks :)

[Shoggy]

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_3.jpg

:D

[tiborrr]

Very nice work, Shoggy! :up:

[Church]

Hmm, i wonder if some of fins are made thicker for specific purpose (extra rigidity with thinner base?).

[LeoAndrade]

love those fins... awesome block

[stren]

Stren: btw, there is one big minus to choosing titan (apart from high cost if it gets damaged during extensive testing) for roundup. It simply is not the hottest card around, unlike 480 back then at skinneelab test time :). It's 250W TDP is rather reasonable even among top cards, less the heat load = imho probably less temp difference among blocks, and even worst ones will cool good enough, no? gtx480 was nice worst case scenario (especially for testing universal gpu blocks. as in - if they are able to cool THAT, they will do for everything else thrown at them :)).

BTW only looks wise i'm glad for EK's vote/thinkcell movement result, transparent clear block brings back FC bling many liked EK for. From presented blocks theirs looks best in my eyes. Pitty it can be well seen only in inverted atx cases.

Agreed it's not as hot as the 480, however it uses more power than the 680 and the power limit can be boosted to 280W so far and soon probably more. Different chips potentially have different heat signatures and designs have changed since the 480 so it's useful to know what the difference is on cards that people would buy now even if the end result is that they all the same within 1C. I believe that there is a reason to test things people are going to buy.


Show us the internals of both koolance and aquacomputer blocks :)

I will - I generally do this after testing so that I can't screw anything up and influence the test results in anyway :)

[musicfan]

If you get time, please do pressure drop/restriction on each block if it is not too much of a headache. http://skinneelabs.com/gtx480-full-cover-block-roundup/3/. This value seems more helpful in pump planning than relative flow rates. Thanks stren. :)

[stren]

If you get time, please do pressure drop/restriction on each block if it is not too much of a headache. http://skinneelabs.com/gtx480-full-cover-block-roundup/3/. This value seems more helpful in pump planning than relative flow rates. Thanks stren. :)

Yup it's planned , I'm getting a 2nd flow meter this week so that I can have a dedicated station just for doing pressure drop vs flow. Right now I have to take my thermal testing station apart just for that.

[subzero 1979]

and temp comparision?

[stren]

of course, that's the primary focus :)

[Shoggy]

Unfortunately this beauty was not yet available when you asked for a sample...

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_1.jpg

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_2.jpg

[.::NeO::.]

Unfortunately this beauty was not yet available when you asked for a sample...

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_1.jpg

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_2.jpg

OMFG that is f*cking awesome :eek:

[stren]

:drool: I'm a sucker for plexi/nickel

[Church]

Shoggy: may i say that this is most beautiful block by AC? :)

[stren]

I love the 3D bevelled edge effect on the plexi too. Very nice.

After getting confidence in the restriction/pressure/flow testing setup, I took some data:

http://i.imgur.com/DrzDiUB.png

I included the raystorm cpu block for reference. The AC block is pretty restrictive as expected given the narrow channels.

XSPC's block is ready according to their facebook, so I'll be emailing them tomorrow I expect to see if they shipped yet :)

[Raul-7]

Unfortunately this beauty was not yet available when you asked for a sample...

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_1.jpg

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_2.jpg

WOW! :shocked:

Brings a whole new meaning to the term 'waterblock :banana::banana::banana::banana:'. :clap:

[Callsign_Vega]

That Aquacomputer block is pretty sweet looking! Although, I'd never buy one as I don't like clear covers and light entering by liquid loop. Bravo for a cool design though.

Overall, I think XSPC as the nicest looking opaque Titan block:

http://www.xs-pc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/titan1.jpg

[.::NeO::.]

Watercool TITAN waterblocks are out

LT, Hole Edition and Ni-Bl Hole Edition (no pictures of it though)

http://shop.watercool.de/epages/WatercooleK.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/WatercooleK/Categories/Wasserkuehler/GPU_Kuehler/%22Geforce%20GTX%20TITAN%22

@stren: I can't wait to see your pictures! how are your temperature tests going? :)

[stren]

Watercool TITAN waterblocks are out

LT, Hole Edition and Ni-Bl Hole Edition (no pictures of it though)

http://shop.watercool.de/epages/WatercooleK.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/WatercooleK/Categories/Wasserkuehler/GPU_Kuehler/%22Geforce%20GTX%20TITAN%22

@stren: I can't wait to see your pictures! how are your temperature tests going? :)

Guess I'll have to follow up with them too :)

Temperature tests haven't started. EVGA haven't sent the card yet as the hydrocopper block has been slipping. Early april was the last thing I heard.

[Callsign_Vega]

Stren, I look forward to your testing. I think this will be the best modern water block test in quite a while. :clap:

Actually, the last roundup I remember what what, GTX580's?

[m_jones_]

Stren, I look forward to your testing. I think this will be the best modern water block test in quite a while. :clap:

Actually, the last roundup I remember what what, GTX580's?
Most likely the GTX480 waterblockroundup done by skinnee.

[stren]

Bundy did a 580 and a 7970 review I think.

[LeoAndrade]

Shoggy, what can you tell us about that awesome titan backplate? :)

[stren]

Yeah I saw a picture of that in the ocn titan thread looks pretty cool!

[Kvickstick]

Unfortunately this beauty was not yet available when you asked for a sample...

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_1.jpg

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_plexiglas_vernickelt_web_2.jpg

Well done! Seriously... It is amazing looking! :shocked:

[Martinm210]

Nice looking blocks. Would be nice to see a visual comparison mounted to the card when it comes too. I see some are choosing to cover up the pcb length which might make them look cleaner once installed. Kudos on the pressure drop work, looks like several are rubbing elbows to be low restriction king..very good!

[Shoggy]

Shoggy, what can you tell us about that awesome titan backplate? :)We will offer the backplate in two variants: passive and active. The active variant uses a heatpipe which transfers the heat from the packplate to the connection terminal on the side of the block where it has direct contact to the water. The so called anti gravity heatpipe works in any direction so it does not matter how the card is installed in a PC.

The passive variant will cost 29.90 Euro and active variant 39.90 Euro. Both should be available in around 10 days. So far I have only two renderings of the active version.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_backplate.jpg

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_backplate2.jpg

This will not be the last thing that we offer for the Titan ;-)

[Church]

Hmm, this, and new transparent block. Work of art bling wise. You guys outdid yourselves.
I wonder though how such active backplates will be usable with SLI water bridges, or for later ones specific version will be needed.

[Shoggy]

Right, you will need a special connector that works with the heatpipes.

[lowfat]

Honestly that block swayed my decision. Ordered a Titan. Need one of those blocks and backplates stat.

[zalbard]

Honestly that block swayed my decision. Ordered a Titan. Need one of those blocks and backplates stat.
Agreed, really amazing block. :up:

[paulbagz]

THAT is what a back plate for a $1000 GPU should be.

Take note other companies.

-PB

[.::NeO::.]

We will offer the backplate in two variants: passive and active. The active variant uses a heatpipe which transfers the heat from the packplate to the connection terminal on the side of the block where it has direct contact to the water. The so called anti gravity heatpipe works in any direction so it does not matter how the card is installed in a PC.

The passive variant will cost 29.90 Euro and active variant 39.90 Euro. Both should be available in around 10 days. So far I have only two renderings of the active version.

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_backplate.jpg

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_titan_backplate2.jpg

This will not be the last thing that we offer for the Titan ;-)

@Shoggy I think I'm gonna grab a couple of Titan and order your nickel + plexy waterblock and your active backplates.

Just a question, a bit off topic but when I'm doing a loop I always try to grab waterblocks of the same brand, and since I think that I'll go with Aquacomputer also for the CPU, please tell me, what's the difference between Kryos HF and Kryos XT? Who is better?

Also, Kryos Derlin (listed on your shop at 39,90€) is the HF or the XT version?

PM me if you prefer. Sorry stren for the OT.

[chispy]

Really looking forward for this article since I have a Titan inbound arriving next week , this will be very useful for the choice of GPU Block that I will install on it. Cannot wait for the full article :up:

[stren]

love the new backplate :):)

Can anyone tell me what temperature sensors are available on the titan card itself? Still waiting for mine...

Also here's the unboxing vid of the first three cards:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NEKlr7NoTQ

[Callsign_Vega]

Can't wait for the results. Hopefully EK fairs well. :yepp:

[stren]

XSPC shipped, Watercool should ship next week. Waiting to hear back on an update from alphacool. Need to chase up BP, EVGA and Phobya again.

Did some testing of the MPS 400 flow sensor today instead. Hopefully I'll get that published this week while we're waiting.

[musicfan]

In case there is any chance to read VRM temps, I wanted to share this freeware utility HWiNFO64 (http://www.hwinfo.com/download64.html) that was on an ATI/AMD HD7970 readout at the bottom of this post. (http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039315351&postcount=173) The readme says the utility works on a Titan but don't know if Titan tells us VRM temps like that model of HD7970. If it would easy for you, the numbers may be helpful to those who OC VGA cards. It might also help those of us scratching our head over active versus passive water-cooling of VRM. I haven't seen a roundup with VRM monitoring since Skinnee put the probes in the GTX 480. Sorry to pile on...just like Martin said would happen. So forget it if too much hassle. But I only learned today that some VGA cards have sensors for VRM temps. Thanks.

[stren]

In case there is any chance to read VRM temps, I wanted to share this freeware utility HWiNFO64 (http://www.hwinfo.com/download64.html) that was on an ATI/AMD HD7970 readout at the bottom of this post. (http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1039315351&postcount=173) The readme says the utility works on a Titan but don't know if Titan tells us VRM temps like that model of HD7970. If it would easy for you, the numbers may be helpful to those who OC VGA cards. It might also help those of us scratching our head over active versus passive water-cooling of VRM. I haven't seen a roundup with VRM monitoring since Skinnee put the probes in the GTX 480. Sorry to pile on...just like Martin said would happen. So forget it if too much hassle. But I only learned today that some VGA cards have sensors for VRM temps. Thanks.

Yeah I can try this when the card comes in. As long as it logs the data then it's just one more number to process. I should really setup scripts to parse the data for me lol.

[Kenjiwing]

Can we get some pics of the plexi/nickel aqua block installed? It looks awesome but as a render kind of looks off to me for some reason

[tiborrr]

@Kenji: Stren is still waiting on the card.

[rge]

Yeah I can try this when the card comes in. As long as it logs the data then it's just one more number to process. I should really setup scripts to parse the data for me lol.

VRM temps would be nice, but only gpu temps are available, using gpuz/precision tune, even tried HWutil from musicfan, but no gpu vrm temps, just gpu.

Also many OCing titans are using custom bioses. My original bios stated (using kepler bios editor to look) that my core boost was 1202, but my core constantly varied under load and never higher than 1050 with any benchmarking program or games, even though I was on water and gpu never above 38C. All the consumer cards bioses were gimped with heavy throttling from too low power limits. Playing around, I ended up flashing mine about 17x, trying to figure out how the bios power limits were causing throttling.

The hard limit is 300W total 265W from gpu, cant go passed those without hard mods. hard limit on vcore is 1.21, cant go past that without hard mods. So card is pretty protected...even if you change bios.

My card now will do 1150 rock stable at 1.18 v (stock v is 1.16), or 1202 rock stable with 1.2v. No throttling.

Just to warn you if your card throttles, and it will unless a rarity (always check a loading program/log and look for throttling, part of my norm after any benchmark now), just trying to save you some time in case you get varying load screwing up results.

Here is rest of my post on bios:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=727364&page=9

[musicfan]

Thanks rge for post & links. Perhaps VRM temp readings may only be HD7970 type cards then? Have to wait on VRM temps. Thanks again stren for taking on VGA block testing.

[mbreslin]

I will be adding a third titan when ib-e launches. I normally prefer the plain acetal covered rectangles (ek) but I will be switching to those aqua computer blocks for sure due to passive vram cooling. My chips get so insanely hot I can't help but think it's hurting the memory oc potential. Also it seems like the block/heatpipe will match nicely with corsair extreme dimms?

Looks great.

[stren]

Some pics of the XSPC Titan Block - the boxes were not the usual XSPC grey/black style:

http://i.imgur.com/wN2CaKJh.jpg

One for block, one for backplate:

http://i.imgur.com/RUdn9wLh.jpg

Included accessories with the block:

http://i.imgur.com/4OKKDJ5h.jpg

Almost time to unwrap:

http://i.imgur.com/r5JoQnzh.jpg

The wrapping left some sticky on the bridge. No big deal, but it makes the photo look bad:

http://i.imgur.com/95HqNGth.jpg

A complex block - thin copper base sealed with a stainless steel top and then topped off with acrylic and brushed aluminum to flesh out to the size of the card:

http://i.imgur.com/CYg6HCNh.jpg

Unlike the EK XXL block the copper doesn't run to the end of the card. This doesn't affect performance, but does mean that the side view of the card isn't consistent:

http://i.imgur.com/ddhy6yHh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DqYCG97h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uzk1mGGh.jpg

BTW Vega the XSPC backplate is not brushed unlike the front, it's a plain powdercoated style instead!

http://i.imgur.com/4qcbDcSh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2EOCTSUh.jpg

[Callsign_Vega]

Very sexy, but ya I prefer the EK backplate.

[.::NeO::.]

Firendly bump :)

just received my 2 titans today, can't wait to see stren roundup!

[Equinediver]

EVGA Titan finally ordered tonight, Shoggy any ETA when that backplate will be available?

[Shoggy]

Shoggy any ETA when that backplate will be available?Around the end of this month.

[Martinm210]

Hopefully EVGA actually pulls through. When I asked about sponsoring a watercooled 680 card, they pretty much told me to get lost...

Don't think they care about science or performance much, but if you build a piece of artwork..that's probably where they may have interest.

Crossing my fingers for you..hate to see you spend $1G on a card to do all that work and end up like Skinnee with a dead card.

[Church]

Martin: imho the more modern card is, the more it has circuitry and firmware features related to more advanced throttling and less chance to kill card. It's only temp wise though, and does nothing for many many remounts of cooling sys/it's durability, plus also limits overclock for those more insane (xtreme!) from us :)

[Conumdrum]

Skinnee had many coolers to test on one GPU, like Stren. The stress of mounting and remounting coolers finally killed the card. That's what Martin is saying.

Skinnee did EIGHT blocks with a minimum of 3 mounts for each block. Poor card........

http://skinneelabs.com/gtx480-full-cover-block-roundup/

[stren]

Hopefully EVGA actually pulls through. When I asked about sponsoring a watercooled 680 card, they pretty much told me to get lost...

Don't think they care about science or performance much, but if you build a piece of artwork..that's probably where they may have interest.

Crossing my fingers for you..hate to see you spend $1G on a card to do all that work and end up like Skinnee with a dead card.


Martin: imho the more modern card is, the more it has circuitry and firmware features related to more advanced throttling and less chance to kill card. It's only temp wise though, and does nothing for many many remounts of cooling sys/it's durability, plus also limits overclock for those more insane (xtreme!) from us :)


Skinnee had many coolers to test on one GPU, like Stren. The stress of mounting and remounting coolers finally killed the card. That's what Martin is saying.

Skinnee did EIGHT blocks with a minimum of 3 mounts for each block. Poor card........

http://skinneelabs.com/gtx480-full-cover-block-roundup/

Yeah we'll have to see - the 480 was a high power card. If I do end up buying one I'll be buying an EVGA card with warranty so that mounting a waterblock doesn't invalidate the warranty. Hopefully that will protect me. Eitherway if I buy one or if I loan one it's still bad if it dies. I'd like the EVGA thing to be a long term relationship, which I doubt it will be if I kill a 1K GPU lol. Watercool is shipping out on monday, EVGA were supposed to ship the block on wednesday but I haven't had any confirmation yet. They're sounding a bit wishy washy as to when the card will ship. Hopefully they don't flake out on me. Eitherway this review will happen because sponsor's have already trusted me with blocks, but I wouldn't have proceeded if EVGA hadn't agreed to the loaner :/ Hopefully they pull through, it's worth waiting a bit longer to find out.

[stren]

Hydrocopper block arrived last night. Work's crazy busy right now so I probably won't have time to post pics and make an unboxing video for a little while.

[Shoggy]

For those who wait for the backplate. First real live photos:

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_1_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_1.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_2_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_2.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_3_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_3.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_4_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_4.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_5_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_5.jpg)

Will be available in the shop very soon :)

[Church]

Shoggy: do you have plans of releasing future card backplates to which heatpipe module of this can be bolted to or it's one off and will be incompatible with future backplates?

[Shoggy]

We are not able to tell since that will also depend on the graphics card.

[Church]

Shouldn't it require just 4 extra threaded holes at specific locations relative to inlets for all the next backplates, not relative to distance from card's end? About the only reason that might strike out this option imho is making inlets spaced at different distance from each other, then for these blocks, but i'm guessing there is nothing to gain so probably there won't be such problem.

[Equinediver]

It looks awesome, Titan arrived yesterday so just waiting for the backplate to be up on your store.

[Martinm210]

For those who wait for the backplate. First real live photos:

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_1_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_1.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_2_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_2.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_3_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_3.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_4_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_4.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_5_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_5.jpg)

Will be available in the shop very soon :)

Looks killer.

Any test numbers to suggest how much the backplate actually cools?

[Shoggy]

Any test numbers to suggest how much the backplate actually cools?I have no numbers available. So far we only did a quick test to check if the heatpipe transports heat and it does :D

Today the card have met his new friends:

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_01_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_01.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_02_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_02.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_03_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_03.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_04_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_04.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_05_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_05.jpg) http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_06_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_06.jpg)

http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_07_thumb.jpg (http://forum.aquacomputer.de/images-ac/kryographics_gtx_titan_backplate_07.jpg)

[Goatsongoats]

Drool...

Is this backplate/style of block going to continue for high end cards Shoggy?

[Shoggy]

Yes, that should also be available for other high end cards in the future.

[stren]

Nice. Maybe I should get one of those "laser" temperature guns to see if I can measure it. I do wish I had this block rather than the copper version, it's really pretty.

[stren]

I gave up on EVGA loaning me a card so I sold my 580s and bought a titan:

http://i.imgur.com/XlkWsvZh.jpg

I upgraded the bios to avoid throttling and increased the power limit of the card so that I could try and seperate the results from the error as much as possible. I'm running Naennon's 145% Max Power bios. My max clocks were around 1150-1175 @1.212V (not the best card), so I downclocked to 1123MHz and tried a few benchmarks/stress tests to see what power levels I could get. Furmark was giving me a nice solid 120% level so I decided to go with that. I'm logging card temps with precision-x and the water/ambient temps with WinTest. I took some baseline measurements on air, with the fan at max (85%) the card was running about 50C over ambient which is not bad at all even if the fan is super noisy. First block on the testing rig is EK:

http://i.imgur.com/PjBi23mh.jpg

I also had time to unbox the hydrocopper card. The packaging is much less fancy than the Titan:

http://i.imgur.com/gG0yHfah.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/pMa0KESh.jpg

The only block to include the metal bracket to go around the gpu processor.

http://i.imgur.com/FWnVLM5h.jpg

Accessories:

http://i.imgur.com/SqkQr7oh.jpg

2 Pairs of compressions and 2 stop fittings:

http://i.imgur.com/4WvA2DBh.jpg

The matt block contrasts with the shine of the EVGA insert:

http://i.imgur.com/X3MUayRh.jpg

I feel like the shiny insert takes away from the classyness. I would have preferred it to be cut out of the plastic just like the swiftech logo is:

http://i.imgur.com/dsIgdyUh.jpg

Maybe even make it consistent with the style of the top that lights up some text there too:

http://i.imgur.com/X7DSyAih.jpg

The base is chrome (not nickel) plated:

http://i.imgur.com/O1YFl8ah.jpg

And it's kind of nice that they preattach the thermal pads for you:

http://i.imgur.com/9xomrbih.jpg

That's it for now, hopefully I'll have some of the first few results soon

[Martinm210]

Glad you hooked yourself up with the card, she's a beauty! My 570 is jealous...:)

[naennon]

waiting for results ;)

also check pn stren

[shazza]

Wow - what a contribution to make to your testing - thank you, that was very generous of you.

[stren]

First result from EK, one run only with MX2:

http://i.imgur.com/nMG8TB3.png

Trendline is set to log style, not sure if this is the right choice, but it seems that higher flow would give exponentially less gains. ~7C at high flow seems pretty darn impressive. I don't think anyone really runs there though and I think most will be interested in ~1gpm for single card owners ~0.5gpm for two card owners and ~0.35gpm for three card owners. Although I could push lower than 0.35GPM, that's where my flow meter limits.

Also some more pics of mounted blocks:

http://i.imgur.com/WuuU6yKh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xls2soTh.jpg

Instructions were lacking so I used the plastic washers on the screws rather than between the board and the block/backplate.

http://i.imgur.com/uki9xKVh.jpg

Backplate has some cutouts for fittings:

http://i.imgur.com/Q1dlPy0h.jpg

[LeoAndrade]

That's a very nice result... waiting for the others!

[Martinm210]

Nice!

Might also do a "pumping power" on the x-axis, that way you account for restriction in the result. I like seeing both formats, but if you do have highly varying restriction between different blocks the higher restriction blocks "appear" to do better in a "flow rate" x-axis variable chart.

Awesome work as usual. Is there anything on the VRM temps you can capture too? I don't know too much about the card, but I know some blocks are better at VRM cooling than others independently of GPU temp.

[stren]

Nice!

Might also do a "pumping power" on the x-axis, that way you account for restriction in the result. I like seeing both formats, but if you do have highly varying restriction between different blocks the higher restriction blocks "appear" to do better in a "flow rate" x-axis variable chart.

Awesome work as usual. Is there anything on the VRM temps you can capture too? I don't know too much about the card, but I know some blocks are better at VRM cooling than others independently of GPU temp.

Yup I'll be doing that as soon as I have a second block done to compare :) That one becomes less important once you start talking about 3 cards in parallel I think because the restriction might be low enough that every block has similar flow. Possibly. Lol. Eitherway I'll plot both and people can make up their minds how to read it.

I took a look at the VRMs, I could have squeezed in a sensor right at the edge of the block but the sensor would have been almost touching the block and basically measuring the board/resistors near the VRM. It seemed more likely that I'd end up measuring the block so I figured maybe I should just measure the temps of the back of the board manually with the IR meter.

For anyone concerned about memory temps the hottest VRAM on the back of the board with no backplate is ~20C over ambient.

[LeoAndrade]

only 20C? Any chance of you testing a universal block on this card?

[Martinm210]

wow, only 20c. Seems like they run cool enough that you wouldn't need a heat spreader or anything back there. IR should work..look forward to your additional results..:)

[dernettemann]

wo looks nice

[Vetalar]

Nice results here! As an ati fan i'm not going to buy titan but good wb testing is my soft spot :-) also any universal block would be nice...

send from Deathstar via HAL9000

[stren]

wow, only 20c. Seems like they run cool enough that you wouldn't need a heat spreader or anything back there. IR should work..look forward to your additional results..:)

Yeah they do get hotter when you run an air cooler as they would roughly track the GPU temps, i.e. ~70C when the gpu was at 75C on air.


wo looks nice


only 20C? Any chance of you testing a universal block on this card?


Nice results here! As an ati fan i'm not going to buy titan but good wb testing is my soft spot :-) also any universal block would be nice...

send from Deathstar via HAL9000

Yeah we'll see how time goes, with multiple blocks and multiple runs and the extra time to let MX2 cure then I might want to be selling this card before I get to that point. Plus I'm off on vacation for 10 days on wednesday so I'm trying to get out what data I can before I leave...

[stren]

Alright then. I got done with the first run on the Koolance block which is a real puzzler. I'm definitely going to have to run this block again to make sure this is legit:

http://i.imgur.com/OKH12ZZ.png

>> edit after removing the koolance block I noticed the TIM wasn't spread as well as it could have been and was still quite thick. This either means that I didn't tighten the block enough (unlikely but always possible) or that the contact area for the GPU is actually too high and isn't making good contact with the IHS.

[avabaska]

stren
>This either means that I didn't tighten the block enough (unlikely but always possible) or that the contact area for the GPU is actually too high and isn't making good contact with the IHS.
Will be new results?

And question about EK. This thing got like baffle before VRM zone. Sure it's made to reduce the resistance. But is that good for VRM cooling? Titan can take from PSU 330+ W (with modded BIOS) just under 3DMark11. Don't know about VRM's margin of safety on this card, but I never heard about deaths of these cards even under air cooling. So maybe nothing worry about.

Ordered simple EKs + backplates. But Aquacomp's blocks are most beautiful, as usual. I think they must make XXL Edition, like EK did!

[stren]

stren
>This either means that I didn't tighten the block enough (unlikely but always possible) or that the contact area for the GPU is actually too high and isn't making good contact with the IHS.
Will be new results?

And question about EK. This thing got like baffle before VRM zone. Sure it's made to reduce the resistance. But is that good for VRM cooling? Titan can take from PSU 330+ W (with modded BIOS) just under 3DMark11. Don't know about VRM's margin of safety on this card, but I never heard about deaths of these cards even under air cooling. So maybe nothing worry about.

Ordered simple EKs + backplates. But Aquacomp's the most beautiful, as usual.

Yeah I'll be retesting all the blocks, I'm trying to run every block once first in case something dies.

I did forget VRM and memory temps on the EK block, and Koolance had a backplate so I couldn't measure that one, but I have those temps on the AquaComputer block that I'm running now. Yeah we'll see about the VRM's. I'm measuring about 50C over ambient on the VRM's right now with the AC block. I think adding MX2 to both sides of the thermal pad really helps (which this run doesn't have), but I need to get firm data on that to be honest. I also noted that a thermal pad on the VRM sense resistor really helps to stabilize the card's power measurements over temperature. That resistor does not have a zero temp co and could be causing people to power limit unnecessarily.

[naennon]

for the koolance vid titan

do NOT use pads on vram chips
block will not get enough contact to the gpu
simply use thermal grease on vram chips - much better :)

thats what i meant with koolance temperatur problems - just figured out

[stren]

for the koolance vid titan

do NOT use pads on vram chips
block will not get enough contact to the gpu
simply use thermal grease on vram chips - much better :)

thats what i meant with koolance temperatur problems - just figured out

Cool I'll try this next - did that help your temps?

[Martinm210]

Interesting flow behavior on the Koolance. Perhaps there is some block expansion happening as flow and internal pressure increases causing that. I know I have seen some odd things in pressure drop curves flattening out like the GTX radiator series that was presumably due to the very thin tubes expanding under pressure.

Love the work and think the one mount concept first is very wise. Take care of that card and take your time. Enjoy the Vaca.. much deserved break!!

[avabaska]

stren
>...but I have those temps on the AquaComputer block that I'm running now. Yeah we'll see about the VRM's. I'm measuring about 50C over ambient on the VRM's right now with the AC block.
+50C from ambient directly on one of the transistors? And I guess it at stock clocks (with boost only)? I think it's a good idea to use a backplate with pads (need to pick up thickness) for VRM zone + slow fan for cooling that backplate. Did it with GTX 580s and will repeat with Titans.

>I think adding MX2 to both sides of the thermal pad really helps (which this run doesn't have), but I need to get firm data on that to be honest.
EK wrote about this in manual. But is that OK if I have MX3? And is there any benefit? If it's only 1-2-3 degrees...

>I also noted that a thermal pad on the VRM sense resistor really helps to stabilize the card's power measurements over temperature. That resistor does not have a zero temp co and could be causing people to power limit unnecessarily./i]
Sorry, I don`t understand - resistor on Titan`s PCB?
I only OC`ed this card under air (stock) in open case, fan was at 5000+ RPM and + two 120 mm side Slip Streams (1600 and 1900 RPM). Card consumption was up to 330W and back side of PCB (on the opposite side of VRM) was about 65-70C (infrared thermometer). Ambient ~24C.

naennon
>[i]do NOT use pads on vram chips
block will not get enough contact to the gpu
But according Koolance manual, we must use them. That's strange. But also they wrote:

Multiple types of heat transfer pads are included with some Koolance blocks.
You might not require both (check the pad diagram). This is done because card
manufactures change the component height tolerance from time to time.

But it looks confusing, I prefer EK way :)

[stren]

Interesting flow behavior on the Koolance. Perhaps there is some block expansion happening as flow and internal pressure increases causing that. I know I have seen some odd things in pressure drop curves flattening out like the GTX radiator series that was presumably due to the very thin tubes expanding under pressure.

Love the work and think the one mount concept first is very wise. Take care of that card and take your time. Enjoy the Vaca.. much deserved break!!

Thanks Martin - interesting - yes it reminded me of a laminar to turbulent transition plot from back in the day. But I thought we always had turbulent flow these days so your explanation might be better!


stren
>...but I have those temps on the AquaComputer block that I'm running now. Yeah we'll see about the VRM's. I'm measuring about 50C over ambient on the VRM's right now with the AC block.
+50C from ambient directly on one of the transistors? And I guess it at stock clocks (with boost only)? I think it's a good idea to use a backplate with pads (need to pick up thickness) for VRM zone + slow fan for cooling that backplate. Did it with GTX 580s and will repeat with Titans.


+50C above ambient measured on the back of the board underneath where the VRMs are. This was the worst spot of the 6 phases, others were cooler. This raised to ~57C at very low flow. This is without TIM on the thermal pads though so I bet it could be improved.



>I think adding MX2 to both sides of the thermal pad really helps (which this run doesn't have), but I need to get firm data on that to be honest.
EK wrote about this in manual. But is that OK if I have MX3? And is there any benefit? If it's only 1-2-3 degrees...


Any non conductive TIM should be fine. I don't have a definitive numerical answer for you, but the EK block (where I did use TIM on the vram pads) was about 15C better on the VRAM chips on the back of the card than the AC block (where I didn't use TIM on the pads). Now that could be block differences but it might be the TIM.



>I also noted that a thermal pad on the VRM sense resistor really helps to stabilize the card's power measurements over temperature. That resistor does not have a zero temp co and could be causing people to power limit unnecessarily./i]
Sorry, I don`t understand - resistor on Titan`s PCB?
I only OC`ed this card under air (stock) in open case, fan was at 5000+ RPM and + two 120 mm side Slip Streams (1600 and 1900 RPM). Card consumption was up to 330W and back side of PCB (on the opposite side of VRM) was about 65-70C (infrared thermometer). Ambient ~24C.


There is a resistor (or at least I assume it's a resistor) for each phase next to the regulator labelled R22. I assume this means it's a high power 0.22 ohm resistor used to measure the output current of the regulator. But this is a guess. Most instructions tell you to not put a thermal pad on it, but when I didn't on the Koolance block the power measurements were very sensitive to block temperature and would raise 5% over the test. Given that with a stock bios you can easily hit the power limit when overclocking then adding a thermal pad to that resistor might help extend your ability to overclock it.



naennon
>[i]do NOT use pads on vram chips
block will not get enough contact to the gpu
But according Koolance manual, we must use them. That's strange. But also they wrote:

Multiple types of heat transfer pads are included with some Koolance blocks.
You might not require both (check the pad diagram). This is done because card
manufactures change the component height tolerance from time to time.

But it looks confusing, I prefer EK way :)

Yeah I saw this yesterday too (I didn't have a manual shipped with the block as it was shipped so quickly). So they kind of agree except Koolance should have specified that you may not even have to use a pad at all if the spread is still too thick.

Compiled the AquaComputer GPU core results - it's a bunch more restrictive as we knew from the earlier plots. In a single CPU, GPU, Rad, 4xQDC loop it could drop flow from ~1.05GPM (for EK and Koolance) to 0.85GPM. At higher flows it does about the same as the EK block, however at lower flows it does better. Between the two I'd recommend the AC for multiple cards in parallel and the EK for a single card, or cards in series.

Note the lowest pump setting for the AC block is off the scale of my flow meter. The float was not pegged so I made an estimate of 0.28GPM, but this number will be far from exact.

http://i.imgur.com/sXNiFTU.png

That's about all I'll have time for before I leave for vacation. I'll be back by the end of the month and will run the XSPC and then the EVGA. Hopefully the other blocks will arrive shortly after I get back.

[Martinm210]

Sweetness...finally some good data to understand lower flow rate performance too. I had always assumed the larger fin designs of GPU block would be more sensetive to lower flow rate. That AC block clear down to .25GPM is still doing extremely well. Just another reason not to get overly worked up about thinking we need high flow rates.

[frank anderson]

Thx Stren, and Hello Martin :)

Those blocks are absolutely beautiful, loving the AC back plate.. definitely ordering a couple titan's this year (maybe 3 if it scales well in surround :D ), water blocks will definitely be used so keeping a eye on this thread.

Looks like EK's and AC's are going toe to toe this round while Koolance is trailing just a step behind, so in the end it may just boil down to aesthetics and which company you prefer, those nickel plated AC blocks just brings another meaning to the word "Sexy".... ummmmm :p:

@shoggy, is there a SLI and Tri SLI block available that is compatible with the heat pipe or this is still in the works?

[naennon]

sure it helped me out with my temps @ stren

do it my way ;)

[tiborrr]

Love your work, keep it up! :up: Have a nice vacation, recharge your batteries.

[avabaska]

+50C above ambient measured on the back of the board underneath where the VRMs are. This was the worst spot of the 6 phases, others were cooler. This raised to ~57C at very low flow. This is without TIM on the thermal pads though so I bet it could be improved.
Thanks for the answer and I'm very sorry for meddling in your topic :)
Unfortunately, I can measure only the back side of PCB (so it can be + up to 10C to this temp = transistors temp) and there was up to 68C under heavy load (300+W) with water temp 33C:

http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/17/irgun.jpg

Also there was a faint air cooling (92 mm, 1000 rpm):

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/8896/fanyz.jpg

And I did not succeed with pads for the back side of PCB, because had only hard pads from Phobya and a backplate began to deform when tightening the screws. So I decided not to install backplates, instead of this I used heatsinks for memory and just a fan for VRM zone. Not so effective, ugly but it works.



Any non conductive TIM should be fine. I don't have a definitive numerical answer for you, but the EK block (where I did use TIM on the vram pads) was about 15C better on the VRAM chips on the back of the card than the AC block (where I didn't use TIM on the pads). Now that could be block differences but it might be the TIM.
It possible, but 15C on VRAM chips :confused: I thought if we have a strong pressing, like this (GTX 680):

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9554/vrmpads.jpg

with a pretty hard pads (like EK's), there is no need of any other thermal interface. But if it will be a copper or aluminium plate, sure we need something like MX2 or 4.
But look how squeezed they are... Maybe thermal paste it's a good idea. I'm starting to think, that I need to reinstall blocks (laziness...) or wait for the next upgrade :eh:



There is a resistor (or at least I assume it's a resistor) for each phase next to the regulator labelled R22. I assume this means it's a high power 0.22 ohm resistor used to measure the output current of the regulator. But this is a guess. Most instructions tell you to not put a thermal pad on it, but when I didn't on the Koolance block the power measurements were very sensitive to block temperature and would raise 5% over the test. Given that with a stock bios you can easily hit the power limit when overclocking then adding a thermal pad to that resistor might help extend your ability to overclock it.
That's really strange :confused:



Between the two I'd recommend the AC for multiple cards in parallel and the EK for a single card, or cards in series.
But our temps will be higher. BTW, I have not noticed any appreciable difference between three GPUs at ~230 l/h. Even at 175 l/h the difference was very small. Maybe even at 150 l/h it's better to use a series connection? In parallel, temp of all cards = last card in series connection. But if we have sufficient (or minium) flow only with one card and want to add two cards more, maybe we need use parallel.

[Martinm210]

AC block seems to be leading both aesthetics and performance so far although it does appear to be a tiny bit more restrictive. Have a great vacation, look forward to more later.:)

[juthoss]

Titan's block from Bitspower
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8206/dsc03482f.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/dsc03482f.jpg/)

[.::NeO::.]

Titan's block from Bitspower
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/8206/dsc03482f.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/dsc03482f.jpg/)

Fugly.

wtf were they thinking with those huge black screw at the top?

also, the internals seems a bit too simple and poor

[avabaska]

Cooling that memory chips on the back side - useless :) Max temp (55C) got chips near to VRM zone. But 55C it's nothing. So backplate it's only for aesthetics :(

[frank anderson]

I have owned bitspower blocks (580 GTX models) in the past, they are surprisingly well built, I put those things through torture, literally... Remove / Installed about 5 times, ran coolants, mayhem dyes, flushed with tap water then distilled uncountable times, in the end I use distilled and silver coil only for long use, the quality of the nickel never budged and it never leaked, they are pure eye candy if you pop some LED's in them..

Performance wise is a bit lacking, but beats stock air cooling by far,if you are after pure aesthetics, picture below is a old shot of mine.

http://www.frankandersonblog.com/upload/12292012/2.jpg

http://www.frankandersonblog.com/upload/12292012/8.jpg

http://www.frankandersonblog.com/upload/12292012/9.jpg

for my new cards, I have ordered some AC blocks with the passive back plates :)

I wouldn't say back plates are purely aesthetics, for the temps it may not help much or be negligible as far as performance is concerned, but for the stability of the card, it really does help a lot, going tri or quad graphic cards + blocks + bridge, it weighs quite a bit.

[stren]

Stren is back! XSPC is on the bench then followed by the hydrcopper. So hopefully those results will be in by the end of the week. I'm following up with BP, alphacool and watercool to make sure I get sent the blocks soon now that they are all ready it seems. Phobya should be ready next month.

[paulbagz]

Snip

Ouchies, most expensive SLI bridging ever! (Looks awesome as though :up:)

-PB

[Koolance]

Hey Stren,

I think you have a faulty block from us (warped or otherwise not flat), so we'll ship out another one. You mentioned a less than desirable paste spread. Do the standoffs sit flush when placed onto a flat surface, or does the block rock a little? In our tests on both Titan and GTX 780, the GPU was noticeably cooler with VID-NXTTN than with EK's. This "should" be expected since we're using denser and thinner fins, so I think this certainly sounds like a contact issue.

A little off-topic, but our Titan block will be the first to use our new upcoming acetal SLI bridge connectors (as opposed to our usual sliding pipes). That's the reason the fitting area can be removed from the main block and has its own o-ring seal.

Tim

[stren]

Hey Stren,

I think you have a faulty block from us (warped or otherwise not flat), so we'll ship out another one. You mentioned a less than desirable paste spread. Do the standoffs sit flush when placed onto a flat surface, or does the block rock a little? In our tests on both Titan and GTX 780, the GPU was noticeably cooler with VID-NXTTN than with EK's. This "should" be expected since we're using denser and thinner fins, so I think this certainly sounds like a contact issue.

A little off-topic, but our Titan block will be the first to use our new upcoming acetal SLI bridge connectors (as opposed to our usual sliding pipes). That's the reason the fitting area can be removed from the main block and has its own o-ring seal.

Tim

Hey Tim - Yes there's a very slight wobble when I put it on a flat surface only in one direction though. And I love that you're doing bridge connectors too! If you decide to send a new one can you also send the short screws so that I don't have to use the backplate? That way I can measure the back of the board VRM/VRAM temps :) Otherwise once I'm done with the first test on all the blocks I have I'll go back and run without thermal pads to get some better data.

[Koolance]

Ok, we'll ship today with two GTX 780 hardware packs (shorter screws).

Thanks,
Tim

[stren]

Thanks Tim

For now I've removed the Koolance block off the chart until the new block gets here. I completed the XSPC run. It's less restrictive than the AquaComputer (though not as much as the EK) but performs the best so far. Now that we've zoomed in we can see that the data is a bit noisy. This is partly because this is a single run with ambients moving (my garage is not climate controlled) and because I'm using MX2 which although it has a short curing time still has some small curing effects despite doing an overnight pre run burn-in.

http://i.imgur.com/oAWcBiG.png

[tiborrr]

http://www.hardwaremax.net/wasserkuehlung/wasser-kuehler/656-test-nvidia-gtx-titan-wasserkuehler.html?showall=&start=8 :shrug:

[stren]

http://www.hardwaremax.net/wasserkuehlung/wasser-kuehler/656-test-nvidia-gtx-titan-wasserkuehler.html?showall=&start=8 :shrug:

Hey Niko - yeah I hear you, I was surprised too. Here are some differences between the two setups:

1. Load - hardwaremaxx used a small 15% overclock and ran heaven. Neither the benchmark or overclock is as power intensive as my setup where I overclock to 1123MHz (34% increase) and run furmark in extreme burn mode which produces a consistent 124% power load, far above what a card with an unmodified bios could do (106% max). I used a fixed voltage and frequency and did not allow the card to deviate from these settings like it normally would.

2. Throttling Fix - I see no mention of logging gpu frequency and voltage or an upgraded bios to ensure that there was no throttling going on. Throttling is a well known and big issue on many (though not all) Titans.

3. Fixed flow vs variable - the hardwaremaxx data is run at a single pump setting - I calculated it out and my nearest data point is the "129" pump setting. Here I also see EK and Aquacomputer much closer together than HardwareMaxx did. Possibly because of number 4.

4. TIM - It's not clear to me whether HardwareMaxx used the supplied TIM or MX2. MX2 is specified under the hardware system setup though that could be in regard to the CPU, it's never specified that this was used for the test. It's perfectly possible that XSPC's supplied TIM was used and is pretty crappy or has a long curing time.

5. Multiple mounts vs One - My data is only one mount so far, hardwaremaxx completed three mounts and took the best result. Maybe EK had a bad first mount although the TIM spread looked decent?

6. Temperature sensor location - from the picture of the setup the temperature sensor is not located close to the EK titan. I mount my coolant temperature sensor immediately next to the inlet of the GPU to ensure accurate coolant readings.

BTW will the SE block have any different performance? If anyone has any further ideas or information then please let me know, I'm all about making the best test possible. I'm not trying to discredit hardwaremaxx's review but merely to try and understand why the data might be different. If anything I'm surprised their data spread was so large - in their testing the AquaComputer block cooled twice as well as the XSPC, while in mine it performed ~15% worse. Given what we've seen in CPU block testing a performance change of 15% seems a lot more reasonable than 100%. I can change the way I test if there is a better way, but I can't change the numbers that I get back from the testing ;) Well I could, but I don't :p

I also got done with taking the "VRM"/"VRAM" temperature measurements on two blocks. These are measured with an uncalibrated IR temperature sensor vs ambient temps. Measuring vs ambient is far from ideal. Also taking measurements at one point in time is also far from ideal as is measuring the back of the board underneath the components. Essentially take these numbers with a grain of salt, and look for big differences only:

http://i.imgur.com/AWd5kQ2.png

Here we can see VRAM temps are essentially the same for the quality of the test. However we see a decent improvement on the VRMs with the XSPC block. I need to take the EK measurements also as I didn't have the IR thermometer for that point in time. Given that this seems like a reasonable way to measure things even if the method is far from the best, I'll be investing in some more temperature probes to stick to the back of the board for more accurate measurements.

I also took some photos of the xspc block on the card after testing. My normal photo editing rig is down as the PSU died, so the border etc isn't consistent :mad:

http://i.imgur.com/JFhNLYSh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/j8YY0dDh.jpg

I then attached the HydroCopper block. There were 5 different types of screws of which the instructions mentioned 2 different types... The screws are also horribly small and easily strippable. By far the worst block install so far. Leak testing going on now. Results most likely on saturday unless I get busy on the weekend in which case monday :)

[tiborrr]

Today I quickly ran our GTX Titan card and the highest delta I saw was about 8.5-9?C (D5 on setting 1) or about 6.5-7?C (D5 on setting 5). The loops consists of a single 360 rad and a D5 X-RES system. Even if the block contact was less than perfect one would suspect the higher mass flow cannot solve this. Therefore, a delta of 2K should be expected but not the delta of 10K.

Because the BIOS is still the stock one I could overclock it by +150 / +450 / 106% (GPU/RAM/Power limit respectively). If you send it to me (via email) I can try to replicate the results on Monday.

What I find odd is:
1. EK-FC Titan scaling so well with high flow rates. Usually, low-restriction water blocks like ours do not gain much with higher flow rates. On the contrary, blocks with exceptionally narrow micro-channel structure (e.g. Koolance, Aquacomputer) react positively performance-wise to higher flow rates. It is simple logic really - the more surface area, the bigger the effect. I believe there is a problem with (consistent) throttling of your GTX Titan or maybe with the thread lenght on your fittings? The fitting thread lenght should NOT be longer than 5mm. See this picture: http://i.imgur.com/PjBi23mh.jpg
2. XSPC block is way off the charts. It has the smallest cooling engine of them all therefore it should perform even worse with larger heat loads (given the contact is okay with all of the tested water blocks).
3. Every block you test it performs better. 10?C on a VRM is a too big of a margin given the fact both XSPC & Aquacomputer blocks have direct contact with VRMs. Where and by using what methodology (IR, wire sensor, foil sensor) is that measurement taken?- NEVERMIND I RE-READ YOUR POST. Do you think there is a chance your temperature measuring equipment might be the case as well?

Talk to you soon,
Niko :)

[stren]

Today I quickly ran our GTX Titan card and the highest delta I saw was about 8.5-9?C (D5 on setting 1) or about 6.5-7?C (D5 on setting 5). The loops consists of a single 360 rad and a D5 X-RES system. Even if the block contact was less than perfect one would suspect the higher mass flow cannot solve this. Therefore, a delta of 2K should be expected but not the delta of 10K.

Yeah my pump range is far wider than a D5 vario can handle though. What flow rates were you getting? If you look at 0.6GPM to 1.3GPM range which is probably similar to your D5 then my block also varies ~3C, the difference is at the very low and very high flow rates. Bear in mind I use a MCP35x2 pump. My lowest flow rate is with PWM at 23% (RPM range is pretty linear from ~19%-51%) and only powering one pump, max flow is with both pumps running at max.



Because the BIOS is still the stock one I could overclock it by +150 / +450 / 106% (GPU/RAM/Power limit respectively). If you send it to me (via email) I can try to replicate the results on Monday.


Yeah I don't trust the stock bios at all. The rig I flashed on is down right now, but here's the link:

http://1pcent.com/files/nvidia/121nv150.zip

I didn't overclock the memory at all, but I ran 1.212/1123 with the option to lock voltages and frequencies. I forget what it's called in precision-x to do that, but I couldn't find the same thing in afterburner so I gave up on afterburner.



What I find odd is:
1. EK-FC Titan scaling so well with high flow rates. Usually, low-restriction water blocks like ours do not gain much with higher flow rates. On the contrary, blocks with exceptionally narrow micro-channel structure (e.g. Koolance, Aquacomputer) react positively performance-wise to higher flow rates. It is simple logic really - the more surface area, the bigger the effect. I believe there is a problem with (consistent) throttling of your GTX Titan or maybe with the thread lenght on your fittings? The fitting thread lenght should NOT be longer than 5mm. See this picture: http://i.imgur.com/PjBi23mh.jpg


Yup this was very strange to me too, we've seen some blocks in the cpu roundup that scaled a bit better than others but this much scaling was very unprecedented. The fittings I use are the bitspower Q fitting on the inlet side, and the koolance g1/4 to g3/8 adapter on the outlet port (on the thicker side of the bridge). I'll double check the length but I think they are pretty short. Bear in mind the flow rates were still the best out of any block so this is unlikely to be the cause.



2. XSPC block is way off the charts. It has the smallest cooling engine of them all therefore it should perform even worse with larger heat loads (given the contact is okay with all of the tested water blocks).


Yeah I haven't opened up the block to measure the fin area and size so I can't confirm this, but like I said it was a surprise.




3. Every block you test it performs better.


Yeah the retests will show if there's some kind of "burn in" process for the card that might be causing performance to shift with time.



10?C on a VRM is a too big of a margin given the fact both XSPC & Aquacomputer blocks have direct contact with VRMs. Where and by using what methodology (IR, wire sensor, foil sensor) is that measurement taken? Do you think there is a chance your temperature measuring equipment might be the case as well?

Talk to you soon,
Niko :)

Like I said this is measured on the back of the board directly below where the VRMs are using an IR "laser" thermometer. This is the first time that I've used this tool, and will be switching over to real probes soon for hopefully better measurements. There's a high degree of error, however I doubt it's 10 degrees big. Thermal pads used are different thicknesses and materials and so some difference would be expected. I'm surprised the VRM area gets this hot under any full cover block to be honest. If the board is this hot, presumably the junction temp of the VRM itself is hotter unless the board is actually getting heated by a nearby device that isn't cooled by the block.

[tiborrr]

Love your replies, thanks for a quick response! :)

[stren]

Love your replies, thanks for a quick response! :)

NP - I love to see correlation too, but at the same time I think most manufacturer's expect their block to be top because they've designed it for their setup and not my setup. At the same time I like my testing to be representative of an end user's setup which means trying to correlate as best I can, so this kind of discussion is healthy and helps towards that goal.

Looking through the data, the only other thing is that the EK block's ambients during testing were in general lower than the others and this may have some small second order effect due to possibly poor linearity of temperature sensors in the card. So when I retest I'll try and make sure the garage gets nice and toasty.

[paulbagz]

Hey stren, will you be able to get your hands on the Swiftech Komodo?

-PB

[tiborrr]

Hey stren, will you be able to get your hands on the Swiftech Komodo?

-PB
Swiftech Komodo = EVGA Hydrocopper.

[stren]

Swiftech Komodo = EVGA Hydrocopper.

This is true. First data point on the block (high flow only) is pretty standard, all blocks so far (excluding Koolance) have been between 7.3 and 7.9C delta at max flow. We'll have to see how it responds to lower flows though. It's also seems to be equaling EK for the least restrictive block. As for PCB temps under the VRMs it's the worst yet: ~60C above ambient!

[paulbagz]

Swiftech Komodo = EVGA Hydrocopper.

Indeed, hence the desire to see results to see if the price tag warrants it or not.

-PB

[cr1t1cal]

Hydrocopper GTX 680 160$ waterblock structure. :ROTF:

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/12-03-31/307f.jpg

Hope to see the Titan model.

[stren]

Indeed, hence the desire to see results to see if the price tag warrants it or not.

-PB

Hopefully hydrocopper testing will be done tomorrow, but i may not get done with analyzing it until monday. Swiftech are sending a Komodo too though the results should of course be identical. I may run that one last because of that.

[dengyong]

I have no numbers available. So far we only did a quick test to check if the heatpipe transports heat and it does :D

Today the card have met his new friends:



That's some beautiful work !.. Will your nickle/plexi support distilled water with a small trace of copper sulfate as a biocide ?

[lowfat]

Hmm. With previous generation cards, Swiftech never sold Komodos (for Nvidia) under their own brand. It was just the Hydrocopper. That is IMO by far the best looking Swiftech block in years. Even the backplate looks good.

[Vetalar]

@lowfat
what 'bout ATI fullcovers - they were branded as comodo and AFAIR sold only separately

[lowfat]

@lowfat
what 'bout ATI fullcovers - they were branded as comodo and AFAIR sold only separately

Sorry I meant to say for Nvidia cards.

[stren]

Hmm. With previous generation cards, Swiftech never sold Komodos (for Nvidia) under their own brand. It was just the Hydrocopper. That is IMO by far the best looking Swiftech block in years. Even the backplate looks good.

Yeah this has been the case in the past, but with the H220 success there is more demand for swiftech branded blocks and of course EVGA still want their own branded blocks too. The only differences should be the logos and the LED color. However the Swiftech backplate is different to the EVGA backplate, each one is manufactured by their respective company. Gabe was saying that their backplate is hella beefy 6mm aluminum. I'll see how it compares when it comes in.

[Martinm210]

Today I quickly ran our GTX Titan card and the highest delta I saw was about 8.5-9?C (D5 on setting 1) or about 6.5-7?C (D5 on setting 5). The loops consists of a single 360 rad and a D5 X-RES system. Even if the block contact was less than perfect one would suspect the higher mass flow cannot solve this. Therefore, a delta of 2K should be expected but not the delta of 10K.

Because the BIOS is still the stock one I could overclock it by +150 / +450 / 106% (GPU/RAM/Power limit respectively). If you send it to me (via email) I can try to replicate the results on Monday.

What I find odd is:
1. EK-FC Titan scaling so well with high flow rates. Usually, low-restriction water blocks like ours do not gain much with higher flow rates. On the contrary, blocks with exceptionally narrow micro-channel structure (e.g. Koolance, Aquacomputer) react positively performance-wise to higher flow rates. It is simple logic really - the more surface area, the bigger the effect. I believe there is a problem with (consistent) throttling of your GTX Titan or maybe with the thread lenght on your fittings? The fitting thread lenght should NOT be longer than 5mm. See this picture: http://i.imgur.com/PjBi23mh.jpg
2. XSPC block is way off the charts. It has the smallest cooling engine of them all therefore it should perform even worse with larger heat loads (given the contact is okay with all of the tested water blocks).
3. Every block you test it performs better. 10?C on a VRM is a too big of a margin given the fact both XSPC & Aquacomputer blocks have direct contact with VRMs. Where and by using what methodology (IR, wire sensor, foil sensor) is that measurement taken?- NEVERMIND I RE-READ YOUR POST. Do you think there is a chance your temperature measuring equipment might be the case as well?

Talk to you soon,
Niko :)

I disagree. I have typically seen blocks that are higher in restriction has less sensitivity to flow rate changes and generally perform better at low flow rates. The more micro pin/fin whatever the smaller the net total cross section which will net higher velocity. Of coarse it is a balancing act with loss in overall net flow rate loss due to the restriction loss.

Take a look at the DT5noz in Strens awesome CPU block work. Vey much an extremely low restriction block with it's parallel nozzle design and also the most gained with increased pumping power.

http://i.imgur.com/rYOEhBH.png

That has been fairly typical of restriction vs flow sensitivity. Not always but generally what I have seen.

As always I would encourage manufactures to share their own. The more data and the more test benches/conditions the better. :)

Thanks for all your hard work Stren!

IMHO it seems GPU performance is so darn close here that perhaps VRM cooling is the more important performance differentiator. I know nothing about the card, but I have heard some others GPUs being more sensitive to VRM cooling

[stren]

IMHO it seems GPU performance is so darn close here that perhaps VRM cooling is the more important performance differentiator. I know nothing about the card, but I have heard some others GPUs being more sensitive to VRM cooling

Very good points on the 5Noz Martin, although the MIPS block was also massively parallel and didn't see the same effect. Whenever I try and read patterns in my data I always just end up confused lol.

Yeah at some point you feel like whether the core is 9C or 10C above coolant doesn't make a big deal of difference, but 40C vs 60C above ambient on VRMs might.

I actually got done with the hydrocopper on saturday morning, but my workstation pump died yesterday so I had to strip down my TX10 and built a quick bench rig to replace it (I wish I had another of spotswood's tech benches, but the CL motherboard tray doubles decently). Here's some data on the evga/swiftech block:

http://i.imgur.com/zJgLe38h.jpg

Decently performing block on the core, very low restriction:

http://i.imgur.com/OoaVpSP.png

Pretty horrible VRM temps, VRAM temps seems all about the same:

http://i.imgur.com/M708D5K.png

[stren]

So I ran the 2nd Koolance block without the backplate using the "GTX780 Screw Kit". I used the suggested thermal pads and the TIM spread looked a lot better this time. I did end up with what I would consider unacceptable warping in the card however, so I'd like to re run to see if I can maintain the performance without putting stress on the card. This run at least shows the best possible performance and then we can back off a bit. Luckily the warp did not kill the card (yet). Next up is the EK re run. EK's TIM spread while better than the original Koolance still looked a little thick. I'm going to try and tighten it as best I can without bending the card. Results below:

http://i.imgur.com/AioJKOK.png

Again VRM/VRAM temps have a much higher degree of error:

http://i.imgur.com/Ze4U0k2.png

[paulbagz]

Go XSPC! :clap:

-PB

[Martinm210]

Nice work! Looks like VRM is the key differentiator. XSPC looking like the better performer.

Don't like hearing about card warpage on the koolance block. I wouldn't push it, that card is worth way to much to kill for some additional numbers. I doubt anyone in regular use would purposely warp their brand new titan either just to get an extra half a degree.

[stren]

Nice work! Looks like VRM is the key differentiator. XSPC looking like the better performer.

Don't like hearing about card warpage on the koolance block. I wouldn't push it, that card is worth way to much to kill for some additional numbers. I doubt anyone in regular use would purposely warp their brand new titan either just to get an extra half a degree.

I agree - the warp was disconcerting but I wanted to see if with good contact that the block itself was good, which it is. I'm certainly not trying that again lol. Next up will be seeing how this 2nd block performs without warping. My gut feel is that the EK and Koolance blocks don't have quite the right height of the gpu core, EK is off a tiny bit so gets decent but not great TIM spread, and that the Koolance is off by a lot. Naennon solved this by removing the thermal pads, but the real solution maybe to alter the block design a bit.

But yes the core temps are so similar that the VRM temps seem to be the biggest factor. I also think that the biggest factor in my measurement of the VRM temps is the heatsinking on what I think are the "current sense resistors" next to the VRMs themselves. This is because I measure the back of the PCB under the VRMs. Take the Hydrocopper block for example even when I added thermal pads to those resistors they still didnt even make contact with the block which is I think why it's results were so bad. Even though I'm not so much measuring the VRM temp as the board temp, a hotter board will mean the VRM itself runs hotter too. Eitherway if I'm using a full cover waterblock my expectation would be that the board doesn't hit 96C!

[Razor Time]

Thank you Stren for taking the time to test and report on these blocks, always great to see info like this when buying gear. :)

I can't seem to get my head around these vrms temps and the vast difference in results. Surely if contact is being made with the vrms then we shouldn't be seeing high temps like we are with some of these blocks?

[stren]

Thank you Stren for taking the time to test and report on these blocks, always great to see info like this when buying gear. :)

I can't seem to get my head around these vrms temps and the vast difference in results. Surely if contact is being made with the vrms then we shouldn't be seeing high temps like we are with some of these blocks?

I honestly think it's more to do with contact on the resistors next to the VRMs and not all blocks do make good contact with those. I also think EK uses unusually thin thermal pads which explains it's results below. For example the swiftech didn't make contact with the resistors even though I added extra thermal pads on those resistors. Which leads me to the next question? My new probes came in so I can measure and log tons of points on the back of the board now. So far I have always added thermal pads to the resistors regardless of the installation instructions. Should I continue this method or follow the manufacturer's instructions. I.E. Do what I think is best, or punish those manufacturer's who aren't as smart as me (jk jk)?

Here's EK's VRM and VRAM temps. Very surprising.

http://i.imgur.com/NX1TkFP.png

[cr1t1cal]

Stren, when you gonna test Heatkiller waterblock?:(

[stren]

Stren, when you gonna test Heatkiller waterblock?:(

It was supposed to definitely ship on wednesday, I pinged them again to see if it did in fact ship :)

EDIT: It did in fact ship so hopefully numbers by the weekend :)

[cpachris]

So far I have always added thermal pads to the resistors regardless of the installation instructions. Should I continue this method or follow the manufacturer's instructions. I.E. Do what I think is best, or punish those manufacturer's who aren't as smart as me (jk jk)?



Both. :)

All you time and temperature data are belong to us!

[leopr]

Amazing work, i guess the safest bet is the XSPC Razor TITAN/780 + Backplate right ? I was about to pick two for my 2-Way SLI GTX 780 but now that i see the EK results i'm not really sure :confused:.

[stren]

Amazing work, i guess the safest bet is the XSPC Razor TITAN/780 + Backplate right ? I was about to pick two for my 2-Way SLI GTX 780 but now that i see the EK results i'm not really sure :confused:.

Yeah it all depends if you want better core temps or VRM/VRAM temps. The XSPC is a good choice, bear in mind my testing was done without backplate. Presumably the backplate helps the VRAM temps. You could even get some extra thermal pads and hit up the back of the VRM section too for extra cooling there.

[leopr]

Yeah it all depends if you want better core temps or VRM/VRAM temps. The XSPC is a good choice, bear in mind my testing was done without backplate. Presumably the backplate helps the VRAM temps. You could even get some extra thermal pads and hit up the back of the VRM section too for extra cooling there.

Thank you for answering, I guess the priority is the VRM cooling because i won't push the memory past 7000Mhz, do you think it is possible to re use the default thermal pads to cool the back of the VRM section ?.

[Vetalar]

it's a bit OT here, but i like idea to meet titan and chiller (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Colorful-Titan-GTX-780-Kudan,22950.html). they claim up to -50*C on core. or this is dedicated SS?

[techguy2k5]

I'm using the XSPC Titan block on my 780 and the results are fantastic! Full load (Furmark, Heaven 4.0, 3dmark 11, anything I can throw at it) never budges from 38 degrees C with boost clocks as high as 1293/6608 and 1.212V.

[stren]

I'm using the XSPC Titan block on my 780 and the results are fantastic! Full load (Furmark, Heaven 4.0, 3dmark 11, anything I can throw at it) never budges from 38 degrees C with boost clocks as high as 1293/6608 and 1.212V.

1293! Can we trade cards??? ;)

[stren]

it's a bit OT here, but i like idea to meet titan and chiller (http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Colorful-Titan-GTX-780-Kudan,22950.html). they claim up to -50*C on core. or this is dedicated SS?

Yeah that's a dedicated SS not a chiller I believe :) Pretty sweet though for benching

[tiborrr]

Well, Titan is fairly easy to manage, heat wise. There's a rotary compressor in there, but at -50?C it will pretty much run in vacuum which will essentially kill the compressor. Plus all that cold on the memory will most likely coldbug the hell out of it. You will loose more with cold on the Vmems than you will gain with the cold on the GPU. This is why we normally run GPU only direct-die evaporators.

Better off building one by yourself or picking up pre-made unit by a renown builder.

[Mobsters]

Would it be a bad to add card original air cooler results too? just to see how much better water cooling is :D

[stren]

Would it be a bad to add card original air cooler results too? just to see how much better water cooling is :D

The problem is you're comparing core to ambient vs core to coolant. In an earlier post I said "I took some baseline measurements on air, with the fan at max (85%) the card was running about 50C over ambient which is not bad at all even if the fan is super noisy. " So you have to add on some amount to the liquid cooled results depending on how good your radiator/fan setup is at cooling vs the heat load you have. However most people wouldn't run at max fan rpm on the air cooler because it really is loud. So let's say your best air cooling is 75C with a 25C ambient, but your best water cooling with say a 7C gpu performance + a 3C delta for the loop would be 35C with a 25C ambient. On the other hand your worst water cooling loop might be 20C worse and your worst air cooling would be a lot worse of course as the card would overheat if you turned the fan too low. It's impossible to do a real apples to apples but those are your boundaries of best and worst case.

Does that make sense?

[Mobsters]

Does it make sense? yes and no. I wasnt really looking apples to apples, more like a baseline. Here is air cooler, here are water blocks.

What i am interested is vrm and vram temps mainly. Again this brings point what speed the fan is running etc. Lets just go with full fan 85% for best case and forget worst case as its just for start point :D

We all know that titan will slow down when core temp hits limit or power limit is reach. So core temp will be 80c or below in stock card depending on load as nvidia wants to keep things silent and people happy. So you could just add vrm and vram temps. There is no point adding core temps.

Interesting note, running fan at 85% will increase gpu power usage by 8% when compared to 30% fan speed. So theres 8% more power to overclock when in water :yepp:

Awesome job with these results anyway :clap:

[Razor Time]

I honestly think it's more to do with contact on the resistors next to the VRMs and not all blocks do make good contact with those. I also think EK uses unusually thin thermal pads which explains it's results below. For example the swiftech didn't make contact with the resistors even though I added extra thermal pads on those resistors. Which leads me to the next question? My new probes came in so I can measure and log tons of points on the back of the board now. So far I have always added thermal pads to the resistors regardless of the installation instructions. Should I continue this method or follow the manufacturer's instructions. I.E. Do what I think is best, or punish those manufacturer's who aren't as smart as me (jk jk)?

Here's EK's VRM and VRAM temps. Very surprising.

http://i.imgur.com/NX1TkFP.png

Damn, I didn't realise you had replied. I think you could be right about the contact with the resistors as I have looked at the install pics for each of these blocks and its the only thing that makes sense. Your new results for the EK block look very impressive and it has kinda thrown a spanner in the works for me as I have already bought the Aqua block. Even though I have the Aqua block I haven't installed it yet so I could still return it if I so wish, but time is running out. I went for the Aqua block over the XSPC block as I wasn't totally convinced with the XSPC block after reading the other review which pegged it last, add to this I have always wanted to try out Aqua.

You mention that you placed thermal pads to the resistors regardless of the instructions. Did you place any pads on the Aqua block as I see they are the only block which doesn't use as much thermal pads compared to EK and XSPC? If you didn't place any pads here do you have any plans to do so in a future test?

You mention that you have a new probe, was the new EK reading done using this probe?

So if you were going to buy a block today for your own use which one would it be?

Sorry for the many questions but I want to make sure I buy and fit the best block I can.

[stren]

Damn, I didn't realise you had replied. I think you could be right about the contact with the resistors as I have looked at the install pics for each of these blocks and its the only thing that makes sense. Your new results for the EK block look very impressive and it has kinda thrown a spanner in the world for me as I have already bought the Aqua block. Even though I have the Aqua block I haven't installed it yet so I could still return it if I so wish, but time is running out. I went for the Aqua block over the XSPC block as I wasn't totally convinced with the XSPC block after reading the other review which pegged it last, add to this I have always wanted to try out Aqua.


Well the aquacomputer is still a good block, sure the VRMs are on the higher end, but VRMS are also generally expected to run hotter. So while cooler is better, I'm not sure how much additional life you would generally expect to get because it's very design dependent and time to failure on ICs while generally decreasing exponential with temperature, still has some average lifetime that is very design dependent. I design ICs myself so I can design a chip that can live at 110C for a long time, or I can design one that I know will die at 70C after a year. I suppose we might be able to find a datasheet if we really wanted to dig into that, but not many companies even give that data.



You mention that you placed thermal pads to the resistors regardless of the instructions. Did you place any pads on the Aqua block as I see they are the only block which doesn't use as much thermal pads compared to EK and XSPC? If you didn't place any pads here do you have any plans to do so in a future test?


Yes, every block so far has had them so that it was a "fair" test. If that is indeed fair lol.



You mention that you have a new probe, was the new EK reading done using this probe?


I haven't started using them. I didn't do any testing this week because I thought the watercool block would be here any day now as it shipped 12 days ago. Stupid DHL. Anyway I wanted to run the watercool with the same setup before I glue a mass of good thermal probes to the back of the board.



So if you were going to buy a block today for your own use which one would it be?


Honestly it's hard to say. Core temps are so close that it's tempting to ignore and choose on VRM temps and aesthetics. However if I were running 3 in parallel I probably would avoid the EK and run the XSPC due to EK's poor core temps at low flow. Not many of us can afford three titans though lol. I'd wait on Koolance until I can do a 2nd run to confirm good performance without warping the card. I also don't like just how hot the VRMs are on the Swiftech/EVGA block. On the other hand if I were choosing purely on aesthetics I think I'd buy the aquacomputer nickel plexi to be honest. Bear in mind we still have four blocks still to arrive though so everything could change yet...



Sorry for the many questions but I want to make sure I buy and fit the best block I can.

There will usually be a trade off in any decision and you have to weigh up what's best for you and there may not be a definitive block that sweeps every performance category. All of them will be an improvement over the stock air cooler. Even the swiftech VRM temps are still lower than the air cooler :)

[Razor Time]

Stren

Thank you for the detailed reply, its much appreciated.

When you say you used thermal pads for all the blocks I am assuming you placed extra pads as shown here in red on the Aqua block or have I miss understood you? If so what thickness of pads did you use? Do you think the temps would of been higher if you didn't place the pads here?

http://i42.tinypic.com/ab5wxv.jpg


One thing I have noticed is that Aqua is the only block not to provide pads for this area and from memory every other gpu block I have used has always had pads in this area.

With regards to VRM temps I am not really concerned about the shelf life of the card but more of limiting my overclocking headroom if the VRMS are running hot. If this has no real effect on my overclocking headroom then I am not too concerned if the VRMs run 10-20c hotter than another block as they should be allot cooler than what they would be if I was running stock air cooling. It has been this thought that has been running constantly through my mind and one reason why I haven't added the block to my card. I actually have a GTX 780 and I want to get the best possible overclock out of it.

Thanks in advance. :)

[stren]

Stren

Thank you for the detailed reply, its much appreciated.

When you say you used thermal pads for all the blocks I am assuming you placed extra pads as shown here in red on the Aqua block or have I miss understood you? If so what thickness of pads did you use? Do you think the temps would of been higher if you didn't place the pads here?

http://i42.tinypic.com/ab5wxv.jpg


One thing I have noticed is that Aqua is the only block not to provide pads for this area and from memory every other gpu block I have used has always had pads in this area.

With regards to VRM temps I am not really concerned about the shelf life of the card but more of limiting my overclocking headroom if the VRMS are running hot. If this has no real effect on my overclocking headroom then I am not too concerned if the VRMs run 10-20c hotter than another block as they should be allot cooler than what they would be if I was running stock air cooling. It has been this thought that has been running constantly through my mind and one reason why I haven't added the block to my card. I actually have a GTX 780 and I want to get the best possible overclock out of it.

Thanks in advance. :)

Yes that's correct.

I think it does affect overclocking headroom because I believe that the resistor is used to sense current and doesn't have zero tempco. I noticed a 4-5% change in the reported "power usage" when I didn't fit the thermal pads there even though the load was the same. Of course this doesn't matter if you have modified bios. In games I never saw any throttling with a 145% bios, but then my card is not capable of meaty overclocks anyway.

The required thickness of thermal pad varies from block to block. Generally I used the spares from that manufacturer's kit. The only exception was the hydrocopper where there weren't extras supplied. For the hydrocopper I used the koolance 0.7mm pads I think, but really I needed something thicker (or a double stack) as these didn't make a good connection to the block.

[Razor Time]

Stren,

That's interesting and partly what I have been concerned about. 4-5% is fairly high when there isn't much to play with in the first place. I hadn't planned on using a custom bios for my card as I can get over 1200mhz on air with a small voltage bump, but I may change my mind once the card is blocked. I am starting to think I might of been better off with a different block as decent overclocks are one of my main goals and I am now having second thoughts about my choice of block.

Can I ask if you used thermal pads or paste for the Aqua block memory chips?


Edit: After doing some reading it seems there are few reports of vrm temps effecting overall clock speeds on Titans. Very good info to know and thank you for pointing that out. :)

[Shoggy]

Can I ask if you used thermal pads or paste for the Aqua block memory chips?
Just in case you would use thermal pads on the RAM there is a good chance that the GPU will have no more proper contact to the block.

[Razor Time]

Just in case you would use thermal pads on the RAM there is a good chance that the GPU will have no more proper contact to the block.

Hi Shoggy,

The reason why I was asking Stren if he used thermal pads on the memory chips is that I am still trying to get my head around why the vrm temps are a fair bit higher compared to EK and XSPC considering all these blocks have a similar setup and all have direct contact. If thermal pads were used on the memory chips then this might possibly explain the difference in vrm temps???

Stren has already said he used extra thermal pads as per the picture I posted above which I know is not what you the manufacturer recommends in your install instructions. Would adding extra thermal pads to red circled area (resistors) effect anything? Stren has already mentioned that by adding thermal pads to this area he saw a reduction of temps on the vrms and less power usage on the card which sounds like without the thermal pads direct contact is not being made in this area. I am assuming the block was designed to make direct contact to this area?

Basically shoggy I love your block but it seems that vrm temps are fairly important when it comes to overclocking the GK110 chip which is what is concerning me. :)

[Shoggy]

The block was designed to have no contact to these inductors. I can not tell how much space is left between them and the hollow in the block but it should not be that much. Of course with an additional pad (which is too thick) it might be possible that the other parts in this area will have a lower contact pressure. Since the voltage regulators are next to the inductors it could have a negative effect.

[Razor Time]

The block was designed to have no contact to these inductors. I can not tell how much space is left between them and the hollow in the block but it should not be that much. Of course with an additional pad (which is too thick) it might be possible that the other parts in this area will have a lower contact pressure. Since the voltage regulators are next to the inductors it could have a negative effect.

Thank you so much for the reply Shoggy, it is much appreciated and helps explains Strens results. :)

[stren]

Stren,

That's interesting and partly what I have been concerned about. 4-5% is fairly high when there isn't much to play with in the first place. I hadn't planned on using a custom bios for my card as I can get over 1200mhz on air with a small voltage bump, but I may change my mind once the card is blocked. I am starting to think I might of been better off with a different block as decent overclocks are one of my main goals and I am now having second thoughts about my choice of block.

Can I ask if you used thermal pads or paste for the Aqua block memory chips?


Edit: After doing some reading it seems there are few reports of vrm temps effecting overall clock speeds on Titans. Very good info to know and thank you for pointing that out. :)

I did not use thermal pads only some paste on the aqua block wrt the memory chips. I could have used a bit more TIM on the memory chips to be honest as I would have thought the aqua block should have the best VRAM temps. On the retests I'll make sure to add a bit more.


Just in case you would use thermal pads on the RAM there is a good chance that the GPU will have no more proper contact to the block.

This is correct. I follow manufacturer's guidelines exactly on these.


The block was designed to have no contact to these inductors. I can not tell how much space is left between them and the hollow in the block but it should not be that much. Of course with an additional pad (which is too thick) it might be possible that the other parts in this area will have a lower contact pressure. Since the voltage regulators are next to the inductors it could have a negative effect.

Yup - if you add too much you're going to screw the VRMs. I would suggest some testing of the pad impression after fitting e.g. trial and error. I'll try and take photos of my pads after fitting on the next go through! The swiftech block may improve with thicker thermal pads for example. This is why I wonder if I should just leave the blocks as the manufacturer intended in which case the winners will be whoever said to put thermal pads on those components.

[Razor Time]

I did not use thermal pads only some paste on the aqua block wrt the memory chips. I could have used a bit more TIM on the memory chips to be honest as I would have thought the aqua block should have the best VRAM temps. On the retests I'll make sure to add a bit more.


Thank you for confirming Stren. Your time on this is much appreciated and has been very helpful. Keep up the good work. :)

[stren]

Heatkiller block finally arrived yesterday though the box is pretty beaten up. Hopefully the block isn't damaged. 2.5 Weeks in the hands of DHL will do that I guess. Results coming this week.

[LeoAndrade]

Stren, sorry if I missed that at some point, or if that it is kind of an off-topic, but... have you ever tested the difference in performance (flow restriction and deltaT) between changing the flow direction inside of the waterblock?

[stren]

Stren, sorry if I missed that at some point, or if that it is kind of an off-topic, but... have you ever tested the difference in performance (flow restriction and deltaT) between changing the flow direction inside of the waterblock?

Hey Leo - I'm not planning on it because I don't expect any noticeable change. Much of the restriction should be from the core itself which is symmetrical. The only slight difference is the order. Either the cooler water hits the core first or the VRMs first. Either way the VRMs will make little difference to coolant temperature I would have thought. For testing purposes I always have the cooler water hitting the core first.

Again this is all speculation and not backed up by any testing :)

[stren]

Well I got the Swiftech block in:

http://i.imgur.com/XWsO7yxh.jpg

Internals are the same as the hydrocopper, but externals are classier:

http://i.imgur.com/v0mycF8h.jpg

Accessories

http://i.imgur.com/G3g3LGqh.jpg

The insert plate has a brushed aluminum style finish and looks way better than the tacky hydrocopper insert:

http://i.imgur.com/6GPcOTIh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/40DNaXeh.jpg

I'd still prefer a one piece top, but this is definitely an improvement over the hydrocopper. The base is chrome plated (not nickel):

http://i.imgur.com/ktOtU99h.jpg

The bridge no longer says evga and the swiftech logo glows green instead of red

http://i.imgur.com/1Yi28kfh.jpg

The edge also has stripes. Overall quite an improvement and $20 less for the swiftech version compared to the hydrocopper. You also get a backplate, but don't get included compression fittings:

http://i.imgur.com/gZiZJe0h.jpg

I do think the logo is too big though, and would have looked better if it was etched out of the Aluminum

http://i.imgur.com/HTJXHK5h.jpg

It is pretty meaty though.

I also got a package from watercool:

http://i.imgur.com/Jm2cNT7h.jpg

DHL took nearly 3 weeks to deliver and it arrived in perfect condition lulz

http://i.imgur.com/gQ0WV06h.jpg

Luckily it was packaged well so everything survived:

http://i.imgur.com/OhcLPfSh.jpg

The block was in a protective bag, but I removed it for the unboxing video:

http://i.imgur.com/kYo63eth.jpg

Pre cut thermal pads and socket cap screws:

http://i.imgur.com/rRPfCqsh.jpg

Hole edition:

http://i.imgur.com/nCHxyZ5h.jpg

Plastic standoffs, actual thread is in the copper though:

http://i.imgur.com/22AsBD5h.jpg

bridge:

http://i.imgur.com/3O8bzgph.jpg

[musicfan]

Thanks Stren. Great story-telling with excellent photos. Glad Watercool packages their contents well - that DHL photo made me cringe.

[stren]

Thanks musicfan :) Got the first heatkiller run done - performs solidly in the middle. I think the vram temps are good because the vram pads were so thin - the VRM pads on the other hand are thicker.

http://i.imgur.com/MHB0tWc.png

http://i.imgur.com/OiaHYxF.png

I added Koolance 0.7mm thick pads for the inductors/sense resistor type things as these weren't included. Now that I've completed all the blocks that have been shipped, I think I'll start on the 2nd/3rd runs. For the 2nd run I will keep the thermal pads on the inductors, but add on my new temp sensors to the back of the board for more accurate vrm/vram measurements. For the 3rd run I will remove the pads if they weren't instructed to be there. This way we get three good core runs to average, one good run of vrm/vram data with extra thermal pads and one good run of vrm/vram data with thermal pads as instructed ;)

[LeoAndrade]

Congrats for the hard work Stren! Much appreciated.

I've just bought myself a aquacomputer block, and it looks fantastic! Will be installing it next week, I'll share the results here.

[stren]

Got some time to do the restriction plots:

http://i.imgur.com/aExEGFzh.png

I'm surprised by two things:

1. Why is the swiftech block so different to the EVGA? I wonder if this is a bad block - I haven't done thermals on it yet. Internals should be the same as the EVGA.

2. Why is the AC block pressure seemingly tailoring off at high flow? I've never seen that happen in any restriction plot?

For reference here are curves from other blocks and rads plotted on the same scale axis:

http://i.imgur.com/PjKydDCh.png

http://i.imgur.com/6aAX4j0.png

So in other words for restriction rads are generally the least restrictive, and some of the GPU blocks are similar in restriction to some of the cpu blocks

[LeoAndrade]

The problem with the AC graphic should be only measurement/equipament error. The curve varys with the flow squared (constant*Q^2), and simply there's no way for that to happen... probably if you get more data the graphic will show as it is expected to be.

[stren]

The problem with the AC graphic should be only measurement/equipament error. The curve varys with the flow squared (constant*Q^2), and simply there's no way for that to happen... probably if you get more data the graphic will show as it is expected to be.

Yeah agreed, shouldn't be the manometer going weird because it was fine afterwards, maybe a hose was working loose and was starting to leak. I'll retest when I get a chance. I'll take the komodo apart to see whats going on, Gabe confirmed it should be the same as the hydrocopper.

[Martinm210]

Got some time to do the restriction plots:

http://i.imgur.com/aExEGFzh.png

I'm surprised by two things:

1. Why is the swiftech block so different to the EVGA? I wonder if this is a bad block - I haven't done thermals on it yet. Internals should be the same as the EVGA.

2. Why is the AC block pressure seemingly tailoring off at high flow? I've never seen that happen in any restriction plot?

For reference here are curves from other blocks and rads plotted on the same scale axis:

http://i.imgur.com/PjKydDCh.png

http://i.imgur.com/6aAX4j0.png

So in other words for restriction rads are generally the least restrictive, and some of the GPU blocks are similar in restriction to some of the cpu blocks

#2 Likely due to "flex" in the block. I have seen this in rads like the HWlabs GTX series and a few others. As pressure increases the chambers/tubes whatever expands causing the normal curve to flatten. GTX rads use very thin and flat and restrictive internal tubes. Som block tops probably just don't have as much bolt restraint or the thin copper base could be flexing. It happens..:)

Great work as usual. Hope be done moving in the next month so I can do more playing as well. Now the proud owner of three mortgages..:)

[Mobsters]

Anyone knows what the difference is with EK FC Titan and EK FC Titan SE blocks? Are they same with performance?

[stren]

Anyone knows what the difference is with EK FC Titan and EK FC Titan SE blocks? Are they same with performance?

Should be similar, my SE is arriving soon so first results should be in a few days after it arrives

[Razor Time]

Anyone knows what the difference is with EK FC Titan and EK FC Titan SE blocks? Are they same with performance?

The internals are slightly different around the VRM area and the fins are meant to be finer. I have an EK SE block on my GTX780 and so far I am pleased with the results. :)

[stren]

The internals are slightly different around the VRM area and the fins are meant to be finer. I have an EK SE block on my GTX780 and so far I am pleased with the results. :)

This, despite the finer fins restriction looks similar, though I don't have the plot yet. Here are some pics:

SE vs Vanilla:

http://i.imgur.com/zViWkjrh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/28ZDMlnh.jpg

SE in nickel plexi covers the entire pcb much like the vanilla XXL did

http://i.imgur.com/ytsQDPSh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Y5jZkWXh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Q0vJxxsh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/weTYEdjh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PFAeU2Wh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6uhONMJh.jpg

[m_jones_]

Keep up all of the hard work, not the biggest fan of the plexi overhang on the EK block.

[stren]

Keep up all of the hard work, not the biggest fan of the plexi overhang on the EK block.

Thanks :) It does look better in real life than the photos, and it has LED holes too, so it might look better when lit up. I do miss the fish though ;)

[mojododo]

hi stren, great write-up!

Silly me grabbed a swiftech block before searching the net for comparisons! Someone might have an answer for me, i went from 2 ek gtx580 blocks in paralell @ 4.2 L/min and now have one swiftech titan block @ 2.6 L/min. I didnt think the swiftech block would be that restrictive! Anyone got any thoughts?

[Church]

Hmm, somehow i dig looks of new EK block. AC's still best look wise, but this is unexpectedly close. Damn, how i wish old EK waterbridges back though.

[stren]

hi stren, great write-up!

Silly me grabbed a swiftech block before searching the net for comparisons! Someone might have an answer for me, i went from 2 ek gtx580 blocks in paralell @ 4.2 L/min and now have one swiftech titan block @ 2.6 L/min. I didnt think the swiftech block would be that restrictive! Anyone got any thoughts?

The swiftech should be very low restriction, similar to the hydrocopper restriction data I took earlier in the thread. I'd expect it to be similar to the old GTX580 blocks, but because you had 2 in parallel vs one now therefore you should see restriction increase. However that sounds like a bigger change than I would expect, having said that, it does depend what else you have in your loop. I wonder if your swiftech block is running at much higher restriction like my sample is. I just took mine apart and I don't see anything wrong with it, but I'll send Gabe some photos to see if he can see anything wrong. If not I'll take the hydrocopper apart to compare.


Hmm, somehow i dig looks of new EK block. AC's still best look wise, but this is unexpectedly close. Damn, how i wish old EK waterbridges back though.

I know those old bridges were much sexier, still I feel like they're on a upward trend in terms of style :)

EK SE (second edition) data:

The finer fins in the cooling engine did not alter the poorer performance at low flow. However I was able to get a better TIM spread and at very high flows the block now performs at the top alongside the XSPC:

http://i.imgur.com/ZghYlr0.png

This time I didn't apply TIM to the VRMs/VRAMs which may explain the slightly poorer performance. However the VRM section design did change.

http://i.imgur.com/qeZqtFU.png

Still to do:

- verify Koolance performance when you don't warp the card
- stick my new temperature probes to the back of the card to log VRM/VRAM temps more accurately
- run the EK SE vs flow (expected to be similar to the older EK block based on flow numbers)

Still waiting for
- Bitspower sample (Redesigning I think)
- Alphacool sample (OOS)
- Phobya sample (Not even sure if this is still happening)

[Jhors2]

Stren,
This is outstanding work, solidified my choice in an EK block for some GTX 780s. Any chance you can post pictures of the setup? Of the EK block with some LEDs? I know this is a performance thread but I'm just curious.
Thanks!

[stren]

Stren,
This is outstanding work, solidified my choice in an EK block for some GTX 780s. Any chance you can post pictures of the setup? Of the EK block with some LEDs? I know this is a performance thread but I'm just curious.
Thanks!

Hey - I've actually taken the block off already in order to check the TIM spread was good. I'll take some when it's on again for the next run. I have some of the XSPC blue LEDs as well as some red ones from Monsoon that I can try.

[Razor Time]

Thank you for posting the EK-SE results Stren. Makes me pleased I went for one. :)

[Church]

stren: BTW, what do you think of testing out something like this (http://www.aquatuning.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=microsw&)? I liked a lot idea of universal block that fixes most of cons keeping pros (still universal, as cooling plates are exchangeable and cuttable as needed, bridge-edition style enables usage of water bridges enhancing looks, and users get also vrm liquid cooling unlike with other universal blocks). I don't like that i was unable to persuade other vendors with potential of such product though :)

[stren]

Thank you for posting the EK-SE results Stren. Makes me pleased I went for one. :)

Anytime :)


stren: BTW, what do you think of testing out something like this (http://www.aquatuning.de/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=microsw&)? I liked a lot idea of universal block that fixes most of cons keeping pros (still universal, as cooling plates are exchangeable and cuttable as needed, bridge-edition style enables usage of water bridges enhancing looks, and users get also vrm liquid cooling unlike with other universal blocks). I don't like that i was unable to persuade other vendors with potential of such product though :)

Yeah it's a good idea, do they have a titan/780 version though I didn't see one? I'm willing to test whatever the manufacturers are willing to send ;) I do think those mini tubes are a bit ugly, but it's a nice idea over just a universal block.

[Church]

stren: i guess that precut/predrilled is only block in 660's kit, one has to cut/drill bottom plates by himself in 40/60 DIY miniblock bases. Imho it would be nice if for such product type community started sharing needed cut/drill dimensions for different gpu-s. Here (http://shop.watercool.de/epages/WatercooleK.sf/en_GB/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=1424688&PageSize=20) a bit more offerings related to that, including spare baseplates.

[stren]

So as Alphacool, Bitspower and Phobya are being super super super slow I decided to change up the testing by adding actual data logged temperature sensors to the back of the card. Previously I was measuring the VRM/VRAM temps with an IR sensor gun. It was inaccurate by nature and prone to error on my part. So I bought some more probes and taped them down, used some MX2 to get a good contact to two spots on the board under the VRMs and then two more on two of the VRAMS:

http://i.imgur.com/2Jos5wIl.jpg

Yes my workbench is a just a teensy bit untidy.

http://i.imgur.com/CYr7Wzpl.jpg

Then I applied liquid tape to secure the probes. It should isolate the probe a bit from the ambient air temperatures too hopefully. Wet liquid tape:

http://i.imgur.com/s8stIq2l.jpg

Dry liquid tape:

http://i.imgur.com/0ZyDcs8l.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8XYFCbul.jpg

There she is in action:

http://i.imgur.com/FwEG2PHl.jpg

The idea is to do three runs on each of the blocks that I have. With good time management I can do one run per day (each run has 8 hours worth data logging if I'm on top of it). Given that I have two VRM probes and two VRAM probes, I'm not sure whether to do a maximum VRAM or VRM temperature, or average the two probes. Either way the VRM/VRAM data should be more accurate than before, even if it's still not measuring the actual chips themselves.

Earlier I had been a bit flip-floppy in methodology for thermal pads and extra TIM and stuff. Koolance didn't like the extra TIM I had added, and it turns out that that was causing the bowing issues on the card. So a big apology to them. So all the testing from here on out will be done by the letter of the instructions even if I think I can improve it ;) However despite this I'm not expecting data to be particularly different from the earlier runs. We'll see though! I should be done with all three Koolance runs tonight. Then because of all the data doubters I'll be running the XSPC next :)

I'm not sure how much value all of this work really is over what I've already done, but there's something to be said for doing the testing as well as you can even if it's another 4-5 weeks of work lol.

[Vetalar]

IMHO probes should be insulated from ambient air...

[stren]

IMHO probes should be insulated from ambient air...

While I agree, I think the liquid tape will do a "good enough" job, it's not like I'm measuring the VRAM on the cooled side, or the VRM body itself. This testing also misrepresents those blocks that come with backplates so it's far from perfect. At some point I'd like to get an accurate temperature logger that can use thin probes to slide in between the block and the VRM/VRAMs. The previous more inaccurate method was enough to see differences between blocks, and this should further clarify the difference.

Here's the data on the Koolance block - first round test vs the new average. Very similar which is good.

http://i.imgur.com/LgXkXoq.png

And the data from the new probes:

http://i.imgur.com/HU3gztF.png

Much less noisy than the old method. There are significant differences between VRAM modules, primarily I think because furmark uses so little memory. VRAM 1 I had seen to be consistently the hottest when I would use my IR Probe. VRAM2 was selected as just another VRAM being on the far side from VRAM1.

[tiborrr]

EK SE (second edition) data:

The finer fins in the cooling engine did not alter the poorer performance at low flow.
The cooling engine is exactly the same (EK-FC Titan vs. EK-FC Titan SE). :cheer2:

[stren]

The cooling engine is exactly the same (EK-FC Titan vs. EK-FC Titan SE). :cheer2:

Then your press release (http://www.ekwb.com/news/350/19/Existing-EK-FC-Titan-compatible-with-GeForce-GTX-780/) should be edited better :rofl:


About EK-FC Titan SE:
EK-FC Titan SE is a high performance full-cover water block for nVidia reference design GeForce GTX Titan as well as -GTX 780 series graphics cards. This water block directly cools the GPU, RAM as well as VRM (voltage regulation module) as water flows directly over these critical areas thus allowing the graphics card and it's VRM to remain stable under high overclocks. EK-FC Titan water block also features a very high flow design therefore it can be easily used in liquid cooling systems using weaker water pumps. The cooling engine now uses refined, more narrow microchannel structure to even further improve the heat transfer.

Good to know the results are similar then lol

[tiborrr]

Narrower (0.8mm) compared to older generation (1.0mm; GeForce GTX 600 series, Radeon HD 7000 series).

[stren]

So it seems like this might be all the data I'll get from this card. I'm getting artifacts now on any display output after the last two mounts I've done (total is now at 20 mounts or so). It's frustrating because a combo of precision-x not logging one run, and my usb drive dying meant that I lost data on 2/4 XSPC runs, and the third XSPC run would immediately crash under load so I had to discard the partial data from that run. So of the last 4 runs I only got one good set of data. That run does at least answer the biggest question thrown up by the first set which was is my data on the XSPC block repeatable. It still beats the Koolance on the new testing runs and is even better than the original run so I stand by the original data that suggested XSPC was the best on the core. Sadly we won't get the extra detail of averaged temps and better VRM and VRAM temps. So I'm going to call this one a day and write up the review as best I can with what I have.

edit -> spoke too soon, seems like it's actually the monitor that's artifacting and not the card... which I guess is good news. The monitor is 7 years old now so I guess these things are expected.

[Callsign_Vega]

Wow, glad I went with EK blocks as I am running the 1.3v softmod on my Titan's now which really stress the VRM's. EK destroys other cards cooling the power area. Is the EVGA/Swiftech block even contacting the VRM's? lol

[stren]

Wow, glad I went with EK blocks as I am running the 1.3v softmod on my Titan's now which really stress the VRM's. EK destroys other cards cooling the power area. Is the EVGA/Swiftech block even contacting the VRM's? lol

The EK does so well (I think) because it includes thermal pads for the inductors next to the VRMs which do get hot too. The thermal pads are also very thin. I agree though the VRM could be cooled better on quite a few cards and given that Nvidia have yet again given us such a weak VRM design for the power that serious overclockers inevitably try to run (given that no lightnings/classies were allowed for the hardcore). During this test I'm only running 123% power, guys like you running 1.3V are running much higher power from what I've heard (170% was a number I heard thrown around).

[Callsign_Vega]

Ah, only the EK block contacts the inductors? Good to know. I guess the other block manufacturers have to step up their game. ;)

[stren]

Ah, only the EK block contacts the inductors? Good to know. I guess the other block manufacturers have to step up their game. ;)

Well for those who don't have EK, if you're conservative with your thermal pads you can fit some spare pieces on them still. The only exception that I could see is the swiftech block where the cutout for the inductors is super high so you'd need to buy *thick* pads. I noticed that the air cooler has a cutout above the inductor so that the fan will actually blow some air over the inductors even though they aren't attached to a heatsink.

After the 20+ mounts I've done my card is now crashing after a little while of being under load regardless of waterblock and clock frequency that I try.

[Callsign_Vega]

That stinks, maybe one of the traces or something got damaged. Well thanks for the great roundup, hopefully it doesn't cost you a Titan in the end.

[theseeker]

Thanks for removing the guesswork Stren!

[m_jones_]

Thank you for all of this hard work, really hope your titan hasn't died. :(

[musicfan]

Stren, thank you so much for the countless hours of donated time and effort. So sorry, your Titan seems to be dying. It has been sacrificed for a good cause because you have taught us much. We are still digesting the data.

For XS members who would like to help Stren replace his Titan, we can donate to Stren's efforts at his site (http://www.xtremerigs.net/contact/), particularly since EVGA never came through.

[stren]

Stren, thank you so much for the countless hours of donated time and effort. So sorry, your Titan seems to be dying. It has been sacrificed for a good cause because you have taught us much. We are still digesting the data.

For XS members who would like to help Stren replace his Titan, we can donate to Stren's efforts at his site (http://www.xtremerigs.net/contact/), particularly since EVGA never came through.

Thanks musicfan - don't donate for a replacement yet though (I'll refund your donation). Although EVGA didn't come through with the loaner they may still come through with a warranty replacement. Of course this testing work might count as too much abuse to be under warranty also. But yes donations always help to fund the site, testing equipment and keeping everything advert free :)

[stren]

Alright I know some of you had requested pics of the internals on the cards:

AquaComputer

http://i.imgur.com/8AeM5zMh.png

http://i.imgur.com/sfkvE8Gh.png


EK

First Edition:

Somewhat stained by the EK red coolant:

http://i.imgur.com/MAKsIECh.png

I had to up the contrast hugely to try and show the detail on the plexi block - still hard to see:

http://i.imgur.com/Yk5hsZCh.png

Second Edition:

http://i.imgur.com/tXSe1vvh.png

http://i.imgur.com/HQculach.png


Koolance:

http://i.imgur.com/nBhuVj5h.png

Huge surface area there on both the main core and the VRM area. Seems like some staining that reminds me of the EK nickel flake issue going on...

http://i.imgur.com/p1C1eQch.png

Surprised given all of cooling surface area that it didn't top the charts!


Watercool Heatkiller GPU-X

http://i.imgur.com/oWcE85Rh.png

http://i.imgur.com/iBd0o8Oh.png


Swiftech Komodo/EVGA Hydrocopper

http://i.imgur.com/fff3rdT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nhFqMs4.jpg


XSPC

First remove the two layer aesthetic cover:

http://i.imgur.com/KbKMrrhh.png

Internals look tiny now:

http://i.imgur.com/5pcEUYHh.png

Remove the bridge connector

http://i.imgur.com/jnagYPAh.png

http://i.imgur.com/VLL7V83h.png

http://i.imgur.com/ZvVwfwCh.png

[Martinm210]

Awesome work as usual, sorry to hear the card troubles. After Skinnee and now you having cards fail, I don't think I will ever try a full cover VGA round. I have even managed to kill a couple of motherboards myself too. Hardware death seems to go hand in hand with significant remounting and VGA seems especially prone to it.

Anyhow, glad to see the data. I can't justify a titan let alone a waterblock, but it's nice to see the competitive efforts and relatively close results indicating all have been busy with block improvements.

Thanks!
Martin

[stren]

Awesome work as usual, sorry to hear the card troubles. After Skinnee and now you having cards fail, I don't think I will ever try a full cover VGA round. I have even managed to kill a couple of motherboards myself too. Hardware death seems to go hand in hand with significant remounting and VGA seems especially prone to it.

Anyhow, glad to see the data. I can't justify a titan let alone a waterblock, but it's nice to see the competitive efforts and relatively close results indicating all have been busy with block improvements.

Thanks!
Martin

Thanks Martin - turns out the card no longer crashes once I revert to the stock bios. I had to flash a new bios because the stock bios throttles so much as standard, but that throttling means that which ever solder joint is flakey never gets hot enough to break anything. The other possibility is that the bios somehow got corrupted so I can try flashing back to a "good" bios again. Bottom line is the card is alive for now :)

Finally got the full write up and video done:

write up: http://www.xtremerigs.net/reviews/water-cooling/nvidia-titan-water-block-roundup-coming-soon/

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDyYliSo-Hw

[m_jones_]

Thanks as always for this round up, it's a joke how Swiftech feel they can charge $150 for that block.

[leghmoh]

Stren, thank you very much for this review. You are the best :up:

[musicfan]

Thanks stren. The text presentation is excellent as usual but the adding the video presentation hits it out the park. That's the best hour of video technology, I ever watched. I now subscribe to your YouTube channel and recommend that to others. You are a natural in front of the lens. :)

[stren]

Thanks stren. The text video presentation is excellent as usual but the adding the video presentation hits it out the park. That's the best hour of video technology, I ever watched. I now subscribe to your YouTube channel and recommend that to others. You are a natural in front of the lens. :)

Glad you liked it, this was my first "more professional" video, and also my first one in a long time, so I was a bit stumbly and waffley. I wasn't sure how many people prefer video over the written stuff so it's good to get feedback that it's useful, I'll try and do more in future then :)

[stren]

Just an extra note - since my review sample shipped (back in april?) AquaComputer updated the design a few weeks later to be higher flow, so essentially my AquaComputer results are now out of date by 4 months... I would retest if I could trust that titan, as it is we'll have to move on and reconvene on the next GPU :)

[Zipelgas]

Its nice to see that people put so much time and effort into such niche products, I just loved the video review and as someone noted you are a natural infront of the lens.
So i hope theres more coming, ordered the EK-FC titan SE after I read all of this and watched your video so thank you for your review.

[stren]

Thanks :) All this is encouraging me to finish up the videos I have in the pipe still unedited :D

[Justintoxicated]

Keep up the good work man!