Liquid cooling upgrade advice needed

[dpajur]

Hi folks,

I have an old liquid cooled system that I've built a few years back based on TJ-07 and I'd like to upgrade it. I also think it's high time to disassemble everything and clean it up :)

My current system is a Xeon X5550 (i7 920 equivalent) and ATI Radeon 5870, in a single loop cooled by DDC-1T and triple 140mm rad (Thermochill), fillport on the top of the case and an EK reservoir next to the motherboard, fans are 600rpm fractal designs running at full speed.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1392/4608873749_5b32ac670b_b.jpg

During the life of the PC I've had to replace the pump three times, which makes me wonder if there is a design flaw in my setup. The pumps would run flawlessly, but they don't seem to survive being shut down much. I wonder if the pressure in the loop is too high, and the pump somehow dies when the system is switched off. Just to note, the loop is full and bled, there is no air in the system.

Now here are my questions where I need some expert advice :)

1) Is the 3x140mm rad enough to cool down an ivy bridge i7 moderately overclocked (around 4.3-4.5 Ghz) + GTX 670 with the fans I have?

2) I have spare DDC pumps lying around, should I get a dual DDC top and have two pumps in the series? I was mainly thinking of this from the redundancy point of view, since I have to drain and disassemble the whole system whenever a pump dies.

3) If I add another radiator, then the most logical place is at the top of the case where there are 2 120mm fan openings, but this would make the rad the highest point in the system - does this effectively make it an airtrap or should I not worry about this?

4) Should I expand or add another reservoir? I have plenty of unused 5.25" spaces and I could pop in a bay reservoir.

Now that I have the opportunity, is there anything else I should change?

The system will be single GPU and mostly used as a server, for development, but I do like to play the occasional Diablo 3 / Starcraft 2 and there might be some more interesting games out :)

Thanks!

[bds71]

1) Is the 3x140mm rad enough to cool down an ivy bridge i7 moderately overclocked (around 4.3-4.5 Ghz) + GTX 670 with the fans I have?

the question of "is it enough" is always open to debate; ultimately, only you can really decide that answer. but, for what it's worth, here is my (non-expert) opinion: yes and no. yes, i think the triple 140 is "enough" rad to cool your OCed Ivy Bridge i7 and a GTX670; but no, the fans would have to be upgraded to faster versions ---- or you can simply live with higher temps. i think it *might* work, but most folks in the WC community would not consider the temps that you might get at those RPMs as suitable. a solution might be to simply add two more fans (of the same type) in push/pull at the same RPM. that would bring the temps down (probably/maybe?) at least a few degrees (?)


2) I have spare DDC pumps lying around, should I get a dual DDC top and have two pumps in the series? I was mainly thinking of this from the redundancy point of view, since I have to drain and disassemble the whole system whenever a pump dies.

again, that is an objective question - many folks just have a single pump and have had no issues. others enjoy the redundancy. maybe, they're just over cautios or have had bad experiences in the past - or maybe they like the flow offered by two pumps in series. i think one pump would be enough for your system (flow-wise), but the choice for redundancy or for more flow is not necessarily a performance question, but rather a matter of individual taste.


3) If I add another radiator, then the most logical place is at the top of the case where there are 2 120mm fan openings, but this would make the rad the highest point in the system - does this effectively make it an airtrap or should I not worry about this?

as long as you are careful, you can get the air out. that should not be a problem. once you have no more bubbles in your reservoire (making sure to tilt the case and move it around sufficiently to "untrap" those air pockets) just seal the loop and you should be OK.


4) Should I expand or add another reservoir? I have plenty of unused 5.25" spaces and I could pop in a bay reservoir.

as with question 2 i think this is a matter of personal opinion. adding a reservoire or expanding your reservoire will not cause a gain or loss of performance. adding to your reservoire will mean that it simply takes longer for your loop to reach its highest temps (because there is a higher volume of water to heat up). ultimately, it will not affect your highest temps - just the amount of time it takes to reach them.

[zanzabar]

1) you should have way more than enough, the IB use very little power and the 670 is about the same wattage as the 5870, it seams like a waste to get the 670 then spend $100+ for a block and not just get the 680 though.

2) you do not have anything restrictive so you will most likely just dump an extra 18W into the loop for nothing performance wise, it will give you redundancy if you want that.

[bds71]

note: the Xeon X5550 is only a 95W TDP part (the 920/930 were actually 130W TDP parts so ran a bit hotter than the 5550) the mainstream ivy bridge processers are 77W TDP. this means that they "might" (even with overclocking) run cooler than your X5550 Xeon (?)

[zanzabar]

note: the Xeon X5550 is only a 95W TDP part (the 920/930 were actually 130W TDP parts so ran a bit hotter than the 5550) the mainstream ivy bridge processers are 77W TDP. this means that they "might" (even with overclocking) run cooler than your X5550 Xeon (?)

it wont run cooler, the IB chips have that :banana::banana::banana::banana: TIM isntead of solder connecting the IHS to the core, it will put less heat in the loop, and he is only looking for a 400-600mhz over stock.

those xeons also put the same wattage out as the 920 they are just rated per part instead of the whole platform.

[Avathar77]

I always wondered if a 3x140mm RAD would fit inside a TJ07!
But if you can get it there then I would say it is enough for an i7 and a GTX670 - even OCed.

Where do you have your DDC? I have used a DDC and a D5, and I would say DDC's will need some air flow over the base as it gets hot there.

I have seen mods with 2 x 120mm RAD in the front drive bay area of the case. I think it is easier to mount the RAD there but if you have HDDs then that will be a problem!

No point in adding another RES.

[dpajur]

I always wondered if a 3x140mm RAD would fit inside a TJ07!
But if you can get it there then I would say it is enough for an i7 and a GTX670 - even OCed.

Where do you have your DDC? I have used a DDC and a D5, and I would say DDC's will need some air flow over the base as it gets hot there.

I have seen mods with 2 x 120mm RAD in the front drive bay area of the case. I think it is easier to mount the RAD there but if you have HDDs then that will be a problem!

No point in adding another RES.

Thanks mate!

The 3x140 fits perfectly and looks pretty good (but that's my opinion). I have the DDC positioned in the bottom area behind the rad, and I have noticed that the little thing gets pretty hot.

Since the last replacement I bought a koolance heatsink for the DDC but I never got around to using it, since the last pump hasn't died yet :)

It gets airfrom from the rad but all the components are at the bottom and that's probably the main issue, I have it mounted with velcro and the bottom is stuck to a carpet tile that I've used to line the bottom of the case.

The only way I can improve the cooling here is by adding another pump or by adding another res, and I believe that moving the pump to the main case area (where the drives are) would introduce vibrations, but I could do it with the new Swiftech Maelstrom dual bay res with two pump mounts, and then I could add a 2x120mm rad to the top of the case. If it's overkill for one CPU and one GPU then I'd rather keep it simple :D

[dpajur]

This is where I put the pump at the bottom, it would be a tight fit with fans in push/pull configuration. I could add two fairly easily, the third would probably be hitting the power supply.

A better idea might be to replace the 600rpm fractals with something a little bit more powerful, but I need ideas. I don't want a noisy system, I don't mind if the temps are higher as long as it's quiet and stable :)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4582044079_5ef1f0a920_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1297/4599344690_883cfc5f4e_b.jpg

[Avathar77]

I ones had my DDC "floating"!
Used the tubes from the RES and RAD to hold the pump in mid air (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?277409-Project-Evolution-TJ07-By-Avathar77&p=5021570&viewfull=1#post5021570).
This helped with the noise and vibrations as well.

Having higher RPM/Static Pressure fans would help to have some air over it.

[dpajur]

Is higher static pressure really neccesary for a 10 fpi rad?

Would you have any quiet 140mm fans to recommend? I was thinking of trying the new aluminium fans from Prolimatech, they're a bit expensive but I wouldn't care about a few extra euros if they perform.

[bds71]

they're certainly no Gentle Typhoon, but Noctua makes a pretty decent (and quiet) fan that comes with built in resistors to lower voltage (and, thereby RPM) without the need for an additional device. and one of their top-rated fans is a 140mm fan which comes with their top of the line air cooler (still?). i think its designed to actually work on 120 rads, but may still fit a 140 rad as well (?)

[zanzabar]

those new swiftec ones look like the best ones.

[dpajur]

You mean this fella here (NF-P14 FLX) ?
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p632609_140x140x25-Noctua-NF-P14-FLX-1200U-m-19-6dB-A--Braun.html

I could give it a shot, I have to say I hate the look of them (colours I mean), but thankfully I won't be looking at them all that much, sitting at the bottom of the case :)

I was going to try these, with overlapping aluminium blades they should be lighter than plastic and have more static pressure:
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/info/p776214_140x140x25-Prolimatech-Aluminium-Vortex-Silver-Wings--rote-LED.html

[zanzabar]

this one, http://www.swiftech.com/Helix140mmfan.aspx

the 120mm version matches the GT so the 140mm looked really nice. i have not seen any numbers on the 140mm though other than swiftechs.