AMD HD 7970 To Get Price Reduction

[SKYMTL]

With the GTX 680 stock situation finally improving in small steps and the possibility of new NVIDIA cards on the horizon, it looks like AMD is finally cutting some prices. :) :)

READ MORE HERE. (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/video/breaking-news-amd-hd-7970-price-drop-incoming/)



Last month, we reported that AMD was sticking to their guns by retaining the HD 7970′s SRP at $549 regardless of NVIDIA’s higher performing and lower priced GTX 680. The reasoning behind this seemed to be quite simple: capitalize upon high end sales since NVIDIA’s production was struggling to keep up with demand.


The whispers we have heard from a number of sources peg the HD 7970′s new price at some point between $470 and $490 within the next few days. In our books, this would put AMD’s Tahiti XT in a favorable position against the GTX 680, particularly when the board partners’ numerous overclocked and custom cooled versions are taken into account.


Edit @ 3PM

More price drops:

HD 7950 = $449 -> $399
HD 7870 = Remains same
HD 7850 = Remains same
HD 7770 = $159 --> $139

[TheBreezyBB]

If i can get the 7950 for less than $400 i'll be happy.

[tbone8ty]

i hope this will effect every other tier and create a waterfall of downward prices

i want gtx 580's and 7870's for ~$300

[SKYMTL]

My contacts didn't say anything about lower end cards but I would assume so. But maybe not initially.

[AliG]

Any word on the 7990? I think it's awfully strange that we're starting to hear about the gtx 690 release now and still AMD has no true answer to the gtx 680

[tbone8ty]

My contacts didn't say anything about lower end cards but I would assume so. But maybe not initially.

yah i figure once the 6870 and 6850 go away that segment will have more leway and help prices fall for the rest of the line.

GTX680's r still out of stock every time i look lol

[tbone8ty]

Any word on the 7990? I think it's awfully strange that we're starting to hear about the gtx 690 release now and still AMD has no true answer to the gtx 680

probably using the chips for 7970/7950 while they can, since manuf process is so expensive. no need for the 7990 yet really probably just waiting

[tbone8ty]

hey skymtl....be interesting to see how many sites pick up your story tomorrow... just curious

[jjj]

470-490$ doesn't sound like enough of a cut,lowest price would be ref design,custom designs and OC cards would cost more.If you look at your own numbers (Hardware Canucks) comparing the overall perf for the 7970 and 680,450$ would be more of a reasonable price.For other cards,even if Nvidia doesn't have a new one, at least the 7950 should go down a bit,how much will depend on how low the 7970 goes.

[The Jesus]

470-490$ doesn't sound like enough of a cut,lowest price would be ref design,custom designs and OC cards would cost more.If you look at your own numbers (Hardware Canucks) comparing the overall perf for the 7970 and 680,450$ would be more of a reasonable price.For other cards,even if Nvidia doesn't have a new one, at least the 7950 should go down a bit,how much will depend on how low the 7970 goes.

What? The 680 and 7970 are two different cards in many respects. The 7970 still has the 680 in GPGPU performance. Not to mention, most of the benchmarks are pretty close. Overclocking, neck and neck performance.

The price cuts are exactly what AMD should do. Price the reference 7970 at $479 and line up the 7970 Lightning at $529/539. That's how AMD always does it, undercut Nvidia with similar performance. This time Nvidia skipped GPGPU to win out on temp/noise/power consumption. Whenever they release the "real" 680 that has GPGPU levels similar to Fermi, we'll see what they cut out.

[ColonelCain]

And now I wish I had money...

[Craftyman.]

And now I wish I had money...

Same here bro :(

[AffenJack]

Are they really costing still 550 in US? In europe they are 490$ since 2 months (tax excluded like us price).

[Levish]

Hopefully nvidia will respond with a similar cut, being such a smaller chip, I'm guessing they have plenty of margin to eat atis lunch

[raghu78]

470-490$ doesn't sound like enough of a cut,lowest price would be ref design,custom designs and OC cards would cost more.If you look at your own numbers (Hardware Canucks) comparing the overall perf for the 7970 and 680,450$ would be more of a reasonable price.For other cards,even if Nvidia doesn't have a new one, at least the 7950 should go down a bit,how much will depend on how low the 7970 goes.

Are you kidding. The HD 7970 is a fantastic overclocker. At stock voltage 1.1 Ghz is easy. Even at stock speeds there are quite a few demanding games which HD 7970 wins like crysis, crysis warhead, metro 2033, alan wake, stalker COP. When OCed the scenario is even more favourable. And this is without voltage OC in the picture. With voltage OC 1.2+ Ghz clocks are easy. check out this review

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/7

the OC'd HD 7970 at 2560 x 1600 Ultra 4X MSAA rocks at avg 50.7 fps. The stock GTX 680 with Turbo upto 1.1 Ghz does 42.9 fps. The GTX 680 needs to scale at 100% to 1.3 Ghz (42.9 x 1.3 / 1.1 = 50.7) to reach the same perf . The GTX 680 does not scale as well as HD 7970 at high clocks and a 100% scaling is not going to happen. For all those people who tell Nvidia runs better on BF3 this is a rebuttal.

All that needs to happen is price parity of ref HD 7970 with ref GTX 680. considering the compute benefits, larger framebuffer, higher bandwidth which is already helping in bandwidth hungry games like crysis warhead, metro 2033, alan wake and will do more so in future the HD 7970 will be a no brainer at price parity. People who spend USD 500 on a graphics card are definitely going to check out OC and then settle at stable OCs. So the stock speed arguments don't hold merit. Wait till the custom HD 7970 models like Sapphire TOXIC HD 7970 are pitted against the custom GTX 680 designs from EVGA. Then you will understand what I said.

[Pantsu]

OCUK said they'll drop 7970 to 360£ and 7950 to 300£ or thereabouts in a few days.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18392298

[cold2010]

Are you kidding. The HD 7970 is a fantastic overclocker. At stock voltage 1.1 Ghz is easy. Even at stock speeds there are quite a few demanding games which HD 7970 wins like crysis, crysis warhead, metro 2033, alan wake, stalker COP. When OCed the scenario is even more favourable. And this is without voltage OC in the picture. With voltage OC 1.2+ Ghz clocks are easy. check out this review

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/04/10/sapphire_hd_7970_oc_edition_video_card_review/7

the OC'd HD 7970 at 2560 x 1600 Ultra 4X MSAA rocks at avg 50.7 fps. The stock GTX 680 with Turbo upto 1.1 Ghz does 42.9 fps. The GTX 680 needs to scale at 100% to 1.3 Ghz (42.9 x 1.3 / 1.1 = 50.7) to reach the same perf . The GTX 680 does not scale as well as HD 7970 at high clocks and a 100% scaling is not going to happen. For all those people who tell Nvidia runs better on BF3 this is a rebuttal.

All that needs to happen is price parity of ref HD 7970 with ref GTX 680. considering the compute benefits, larger framebuffer, higher bandwidth which is already helping in bandwidth hungry games like crysis warhead, metro 2033, alan wake and will do more so in future the HD 7970 will be a no brainer at price parity. People who spend USD 500 on a graphics card are definitely going to check out OC and then settle at stable OCs. So the stock speed arguments don't hold merit. Wait till the custom HD 7970 models like Sapphire TOXIC HD 7970 are pitted against the custom GTX 680 designs from EVGA. Then you will understand what I said.

:rofl:

from hardocp

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?280096-Sapphire-HD-7970-Toxic-6Gb&p=5079059&viewfull=1#post5079059

[raghu78]

:rofl:

from hardocp

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?280096-Sapphire-HD-7970-Toxic-6Gb&p=5079059&viewfull=1#post5079059

The multiplayer performance could be a driver issue. Also I wonder why a fraps graph of multiplayer with similar settings was not shown to give us a better picture. The same page has 5760 X 1200 single player ultra 4X MSAA with fraps graph.

HD 7970 CrossfireX avg 45.7 fps min 34 fps
GTX 680 SLI avg 40.1 fps min 14 fps

The number of times the fps dips below 30 for GTX 680 SLI is not once or twice (rare) but more than a dozen times. The number of times it hits 20 fps or below is 5 times. If u look to OC the HD 7970 to 1.1 Ghz that gap with GTX 680 SLI will widen to avg 10+fps difference and far superior min fps as HD 7970 scales beautifully with clock speed. That means the GTX 680 SLI cannot provide a smooth playable experience while the HD 7970 CrossfireX can. Isn't this a good example of the benefits of a larger framebuffer ? Why is it when HD 7970 does better u chose to ignore and when GTX 680 is shown to do better u highlight that.

[SKYMTL]

hey skymtl....be interesting to see how many sites pick up your story tomorrow... just curious

We will see. I was hoping that everyone would spread the word regardless of linking back to HWC. Anyone that is thinking of buying a HD 7970 needs to hold off for a few days more so getting this message out will seriously benefit them.

[LordEC911]

It took two weeks to change your tune.

Look what I said last month... I mean two weeks ago.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1632888&postcount=3207

[sergiojr]

Anyone that is thinking of buying a HD 7970 needs to hold off for a few days more so getting this message out will seriously benefit them.
Only a week ago prices for HD7970 went to $529. I doubt there will be a significant price correction earlier than next month.

[labs23]

This is good, expected yet late, but its better a bit late than never. =D
I hope it'll be a major domino effect not just on ATI's current pricing but with the 680 too.

KitGuru has $489 - 7970, $394 - 7950 figures also.

[Motiv]

If this is true, it may be wise for anyone considering to buy the 680, to hold off until the price drop.

[SKYMTL]

It took two weeks to change your tune.

No tune was changed. AMD has a pretty good idea what would have been in store for them had their price stayed the same for another two weeks....


FYI: final price is $479 it seems. :)

[labs23]

....SNIP....
FYI: final price is $479 it seems. :)
Now its looking good a little bit more..

[AliG]

No tune was changed. AMD has a pretty good idea what would have been in store for them had their price stayed the same for another two weeks....


FYI: final price is $479 it seems. :)

That seems pretty good by all means. Do you think that the gtx 680 will be released at the proclaimed $300 price point as the gtx 760 next year? I don't mind waiting a while if I can save $200 considering I don't game all that much

[Jamesrt2004]

If this is true, it may be wise for anyone considering to buy the 680, to hold off until the price drop.

680 most likely wont drop due to the fact the last 3 years amd's held the perf/£ crown

Sure nvidia are happy where they are proced etc and generally being more popular they will most likely get more sales anyway (:

[Manicdan]

680 most likely wont drop due to the fact the last 3 years amd's held the perf/£ crown

Sure nvidia are happy where they are proced etc and generally being more popular they will most likely get more sales anyway (:

if they drop their price it means they are going for massive increases in market share. might aswell stay at 500$, and be right around the same perf/$ as the 480$ 7970, but taking in better profits.

i expect a 500$ 680 until something stronger comes out, excluding dual gpus.

[SKYMTL]

Another update:

More info has been posted on our site. I'll repeat it below for you guys:

HD 7950 = $449 -> $399
HD 7870 = Remains same
HD 7850 = Remains same
HD 7770 = $159 --> $139

[RPGWiZaRD]

Just wait til GTX 670 arrives and they'll be forced to lower that HD 78xx pricing as well for sure, nice that the pricing is FINALLY starting to move towards the better, still a way to go though.

[Macadamia]

I spent all my GPU money on Coachella so meh.

@RPG: I'm pretty sure by then there'll be 1.5GB 7950s to take care of that. The 800Mhz base clock would make a lot of partners happy, too, with 3rd party versions.

[SKYMTL]

For those of you wondering, AMD just officially confirmed the price cut. :)

[Sailindawg]

Let the price wars begin!! I'm still holding onto my gpu mad money!! Not sure which way to go, AMD or nvidia, the reference 680's are hardware voltage locked, AMD, not so, but both cards (7970 / 680) are pretty even. It will come down to cost, 3 monitor single card performance. Where are the voltage unlocked non-reference 680's?

[SKYMTL]

Official info, including AMD's new game promo "Three for Free" can be found HERE (http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/news/video/amd-confirms-price-drop-on-hd-7970-hd-7950-hd-7770-adds-3-for-free-game-promo/)

[m4gg0t]

I will never buy a AMD card, NEVER!!!

[tbone8ty]

seems like the 7870 will come down a bit too....it has to... the 7950 is to close in price....better off getting a 7950 than a 7870.

i guess once more nvidia cards come out it will even things out some more

regardless i happy they are starting to fall ;)

[nascasho]

Wow.... now I'm tempted to get the card, sell the games, have a 7970 for ~$440.

I was waiting for the non-ref 680's, but now this has me thinking...

[Sailindawg]

Wow.... now I'm tempted to get the card, sell the games, have a 7970 for ~$440.

I was waiting for the non-ref 680's, but now this has me thinking...

Check out the games first before your pennies. Depending on your tastes, only the DIRT game seemed worth anything.

[tbone8ty]

Check out the games first before your pennies. Depending on your tastes, only the DIRT game seemed worth anything.

yur smoking crack right?

dues ex was a hugely deep involved game and won game of the year

[SKYMTL]

Yup, Deus Ex is amazing and the DLC isn't too shabby either. The only lackluster title there looks to be Nexiuz which will retail for under 10 bucks.

[tbone8ty]

i expect the 7970/7950 to be OOS by the end of the week

[SKYMTL]

Maybe, maybe not. There's still a ton of inventory out there.

[eXa]

Is the Three for free deal worldwide?

[SKYMTL]

Is the Three for free deal worldwide?

As far as I know, it is like their original Dirt 2 / Dirt 3 promos. IE: Worldwide unless your region has some oddball laws against bundling.

[Russian]

I actually would've advocated for $449 as that seems like a much more reasonable price point for the HD 7970, but they couldn't justify a $100 cut plus the fact that they're including three games is also pretty attractive.

Overall, a nice price cut but its not anything I would necessarily consider a big deal when you consider how overpriced it was once the GTX 680 launched

[TheBreezyBB]

So, tomorrow i'll be able to order a 7950 from anywhere for around $400?

[Olivon]

yur smoking crack right?

dues ex was a hugely deep involved game and won game of the year

No.

http://nexus404.com/Blog/2012/03/08/gdc-2012-skyrim-wins-game-of-the-year-at-game-developers-choice-awards-portal-2-battlefield-3-bastion-also-take-home-awards-during-gdc-2012/

The game is good but graphics aren't impressive at all, no details, too empty and way too short experience.

[Pantsu]

I certainly wouldn't call DX:HR short or empty by any means. Of course it's no Skyrim, but it actually has a plot to it. :rolleyes: Graphics engine is a bit dated, but even that has something going for it with DX11, Eyefinity and HD3D+3DVision support. That's a helluvalot more PC support than with most games these days.

[tajoh111]

yur smoking crack right?

dues ex was a hugely deep involved game and won game of the year

It is not that it isn't a good game, it just that most people that want the game already, probably have it.

It is one of the reasons why they were offering it for 10 bucks at the end of last year through some download sites like steam or amazon. Usually when software can start selling for under 10 bucks, demand for the game is completely gone. Considering that most people would rather buy through a more reputable website than some online stranger, you might get 10 bucks but your more likely to get 5 bucks.

You get top dollar for new software, not year old stuff. Especially if it is a download code. The original post was in context of selling the code for money.

[LordEC911]

seems like the 7870 will come down a bit too....it has to... the 7950 is to close in price....better off getting a 7950 than a 7870.

i guess once more nvidia cards come out it will even things out some more

regardless i happy they are starting to fall ;)

7870 should come down slightly once there is enough pressure.
Overclocked/custom versions should be around $340-$350 and reference/stock versions will probably see some rebates to $320-$330, though they could go a little lower.

Unfortunately there is no timeline for the said price drops. It will be whenever Nvidia puts something into the ~$350 market.
Right now the 7850 handles the GTX570 and the 7870 is pretty even with a GTX580 while being a good ~$40 cheaper.

[Sailindawg]

To the Poster calling me an idiot for questioning the "three for free", I missed DX and saw the other two, clicked their links which brought me to Steam. One game was $10 based upon crysis, the other a DIRT sequel. I guess some will like that. I had hoped for something slightly more motivating. Prices still haven't fallen nor is the three for free on Newegg. We will have to wait n see.

[SKYMTL]

So, tomorrow i'll be able to order a 7950 from anywhere for around $400?

Yes.....maybe. Supposedly the retailers were only sent out the advisement email over the weekend so it may take a few hours / days for them to update prices.


One game was $10 based upon crysis, the other a DIRT sequel. I guess some will like that. I had hoped for something slightly more motivating.

I'll play devil's advocate here for a second.

Were there any real "motivating" games released in the last few months that also carried AMD's "Gaming Evolved" logo? All three of those are Gaming Evolved titles. ;)

[TheBreezyBB]

Yes.....maybe. Supposedly the retailers were only sent out the advisement email over the weekend so it may take a few hours / days for them to update prices.



I'll play devil's advocate here for a second.

Were there any real "motivating" games released in the last few months that also carried AMD's "Gaming Evolved" logo? All three of those are Gaming Evolved titles. ;)

I just saw a Diamond 7970 on amazon for $479 Probably i'll end up picking that. One new Happy customer to be!!

[Lanek]

Price drop confirmed here for 7770, 7950 -7970 ... Both 7950-7970 have a 50Euros reduction, and 15Euros for the 7770. Nothing yet for the 7800..

- 7970 = 439 Euros ( all Tax included )
- 7950 = 369 Euros ( all Tax included )
- 7770 = 129 Euros ( all tax Included )
( price can ofc vary in function of shops, Brand and models )


Yes.....maybe. Supposedly the retailers were only sent out the advisement email over the weekend so it may take a few hours / days for them to update prices.



I'll play devil's advocate here for a second.

Were there any real "motivating" games released in the last few months that also carried AMD's "Gaming Evolved" logo? All three of those are Gaming Evolved titles. ;)

For be honest, there is not so many "motivating games" who have been released lately ( Gaming evolved or not ).. ( ME3, Batman... I search.. ).. I believe AMD was to offer Dirt Showdown, but as it is not out yet, they have just give an old one ( DeusEx ) at the same time. + Initially Brand have decided to pack the cards with all the cable needed for Eyefinity who cost nearly 30-40$ each...

[RPGWiZaRD]

Looks better, cheapest GTX 680 in Germany for example sells for like 470~475€ or so so now it's quite "in-line" with GTX 680 pricing.

[Lanek]

Looks better, cheapest GTX 680 in Germany for example sells for like 470~475€ or so so now it's quite "in-line" with GTX 680 pricing.

Differ a lot by country too, a GTX680 in France ( where thoses price is coming ) is more in the 500-550Euros . ( the cheapest is 500euros ( its an special offer ), the other are in the 529-559euros.

So let say 500 vs 439Euros...

I still wait a RMA from Sapphire, .. let see if it is a new one who come back or an old without games included.

[Motiv]

looking at the prices in the uk, I wouldn't be touching a 680 until Nvidia do a price drop. I can't tell if AMDs cards are already under the new price, if not it seems price gouging is still going on with Nvidia (that's if you can get one you want).

[SKYMTL]

NVIDIA's SRP hasn't budged. What you see is retailer gouging in order to capitalize upon limited supplies.

[SKYMTL]

Whelp.....here they are:

http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Radeon-GDDR5-Graphics-7970PE53G/dp/B006UACSZ4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1334617210&sr=8-8

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=69073&vpn=900491&manufacture=VISIONTEK&promoid=1259

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=70111&vpn=AX7970%203GBD5-2DHV3&manufacture=PowerColor&promoid=1259

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=67294&vpn=GV-R797D5-3GD-B&manufacture=Gigabyte&promoid=1259

Oddly, most products / retailers are still towing the $549 line....

[AliG]

Whelp.....here they are:

http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Radeon-GDDR5-Graphics-7970PE53G/dp/B006UACSZ4/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1334617210&sr=8-8

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=69073&vpn=900491&manufacture=VISIONTEK&promoid=1259

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=70111&vpn=AX7970%203GBD5-2DHV3&manufacture=PowerColor&promoid=1259

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=67294&vpn=GV-R797D5-3GD-B&manufacture=Gigabyte&promoid=1259

Oddly, most products / retailers are still towing the $549 line....

Newegg has been kinda weird about that the past few years. It seems that they are one of the worst gougers just after launch, but considerably after they're usually the cheapest. That might actually be their business model though, undercut the competition when the demand is low and take a premium for customer service when supply is low.

[thematrixhazune]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814103201 469.99

Is there a reason Diamond has been the cheapest first on most sites now?

[SKYMTL]

Diamond is very much tied at the hip to AMD. They're usually the first.

[tajoh111]

With diamond, they used to only have a two year or 1 year warranty. If you get a diamond card, make sure to register it within 30 days or the warranty is only 1 year. They have extended it to 5 years if you register within 30 days of purchase. Also the warranty is non transferable.

http://www.diamondmm.com/warranty.php

I wouldn't get a diamond as the resale value would be poor.

[SKYMTL]

Actually, a five year warranty is pretty much top of the pile other than the few lifetime warranties that are offered....

[tajoh111]

Actually, a five year warranty is pretty much top of the pile other than the few lifetime warranties that are offered....

I would rather have 3 years and transferable, than 5 years none transferable.

[SKYMTL]

Which AMD board partner has a 3 year transferable warranty? XFX did away with theirs...

[tajoh111]

Which AMD board partner has a 3 year transferable warranty? XFX did away with theirs...

Doesn't asus have a transferable warranty. I think MSI does too and maybe gigabyte.

[SKYMTL]

Doesn't asus have a transferable warranty. I think MSI does too and maybe gigabyte.

Nope. Not that I know of anyways.

[Sailindawg]

Diamond & Gigabyte with the lowest prices on Newegg. MSI Lightning, 539, but still out of stock. Now, that's getting motivating!

[TheBreezyBB]

Only the 7970 Diamond that is available through Amazon with the new price!

[eric66]

Only the 7970 Diamond that is available through Amazon with the new price!
right now even 7870 got reduced to 329 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131467

[labs23]

6 7970 on the egg is below the $500 mark now, even the Asus DC2.. a good sign.;)

[eXa]

Strangely enough, usually the DCII cards are among the cheapest, atleast in Norway. Thats why my HD6950 is a DCII even tho i never planned to use it with aircooling (i just put a MCW60 on it)

[Sailindawg]

I'm not surprised regarding the price of the DC2's. The 7970 got slammed for having cooler issues. ASUS had stated that they would only utilize the DC2 tops and forego the reference coolers. Maybe some cost savings there.

[TheBreezyBB]

Got my self an Asus DCII 7950, should be here Saturday/Sunday. :D

[tbone8ty]

right now even 7870 got reduced to 329 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131467

this is the problem the 7870 will run into....

powercooler 7950 for $379

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131457

7950 looks to be the golden buy here...alittle OC and bam keeps up with the 7970


edit: HIS 7970 for $449 niiice ;)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161399

[Rollo]

Smart shoppers will look beyond this desparate marketing ploy at the following:

1. Two of the three games cost less than $9.00 (yes, $9.00):

http://store.steampowered.com/app/96800/

Nexuiz $8.99 retail at pre-launch prices. (they only get cheaper from there)

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DEHR/deus-ex-human-revolution-

Deus Ex Human Revolution $7.49 retail. For most people buying $400+ video cards, $16.48 worth of games is not a factor.

2. The market for used 7970s is quickly getting soft because everyone on the planet knows the 680 is the better card. I just checked Ebay and used 3GB 7970s have gone for as cheap as $400. recently. The couple bucks you save up front will be the big loss you take on resale when it's time to upgrade. (for perspective, the cheapest GTX680 was an open box at $519- still above MSRP)

3. The marketing ploy itself is an admission from AMD their product can't compete at NVIDIA's MSRP and that they need to be cheaper with added incentives to have a hope of selling. If you're spending over $450 on a video card anyway, do you really want the one they have to use price cuts and gimmicky give aways to sell? When the part everyone wants, that will hold it's value far better, is just a few dollars more?

Food for thought.

[LordEC911]

The GTX680 that you cannot purchase?

[cegras]

Smart shoppers will look beyond this desparate marketing ploy at the following:

1. Two of the three games cost less than $9.00 (yes, $9.00):

http://store.steampowered.com/app/96800/

Nexuiz $8.99 retail at pre-launch prices. (they only get cheaper from there)

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DEHR/deus-ex-human-revolution-

Deus Ex Human Revolution $7.49 retail. For most people buying $400+ video cards, $16.48 worth of games is not a factor.

2. The market for used 7970s is quickly getting soft because everyone on the planet knows the 680 is the better card. I just checked Ebay and used 3GB 7970s have gone for as cheap as $400. recently. The couple bucks you save up front will be the big loss you take on resale when it's time to upgrade. (for perspective, the cheapest GTX680 was an open box at $519- still above MSRP)

3. The marketing ploy itself is an admission from AMD their product can't compete at NVIDIA's MSRP and that they need to be cheaper with added incentives to have a hope of selling. If you're spending over $450 on a video card anyway, do you really want the one they have to use price cuts and gimmicky give aways to sell? When the part everyone wants, that will hold it's value far better, is just a few dollars more?

Food for thought.

Food for thought, the 680 has, according to techpowerup, only about 6% better performance and perf / watt on all resolutions.

Also, techreport, which uses a superior method of benchmarking (frame times, 99th percentile frames) pins the 7970 as the superior card.

[Manicdan]

The GTX680 that you cannot purchase?

i had to RMA mine and once newegg notified me that they could not ship out a replacement and refunded me, i put a notify on the few i cared about, zotac, evga and asus.
the asus came into stock for about 5 minutes. enough time for me to get to the shopping cart and question if i still wanted a basic referances (i was researching the signature series wondering if they could get more volts out of a still referance design). well in 2 minutes my cart was empty and it was sold out. about 5 minute later i got an email from the auto notify

a few hours later that day zotac boards came into stock. long enough that i got the email, bought one, and there were still some left about 20-30 minutes later. this was mid afternoon, but from a CA warehouse. so probably around 11-noon

total time from when i tried to buy one, until i could buy one, 3 hours. its not that tough guys.

[El Mano]

Smart shoppers will look beyond this desparate marketing ploy at the following:

1. Two of the three games cost less than $9.00 (yes, $9.00):

http://store.steampowered.com/app/96800/

Nexuiz $8.99 retail at pre-launch prices. (they only get cheaper from there)

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DEHR/deus-ex-human-revolution-

Deus Ex Human Revolution $7.49 retail. For most people buying $400+ video cards, $16.48 worth of games is not a factor.

2. The market for used 7970s is quickly getting soft because everyone on the planet knows the 680 is the better card. I just checked Ebay and used 3GB 7970s have gone for as cheap as $400. recently. The couple bucks you save up front will be the big loss you take on resale when it's time to upgrade. (for perspective, the cheapest GTX680 was an open box at $519- still above MSRP)

3. The marketing ploy itself is an admission from AMD their product can't compete at NVIDIA's MSRP and that they need to be cheaper with added incentives to have a hope of selling. If you're spending over $450 on a video card anyway, do you really want the one they have to use price cuts and gimmicky give aways to sell? When the part everyone wants, that will hold it's value far better, is just a few dollars more?

Food for thought.

Ths cheapest 7970 you can buy in Spain is about 419€. The cheapest 680 is about 500€. That's a 80€ difference for a performance difference of around 10% in some games.
And sorry about the resale factor, I don't really pretend to start smuggling cards or something. When I buy a card I do it for a minimum of two years, I know for sure its second hand price will have dropped quite a lot.
Resale prices don't really bother me :)

[Rollo]

Food for thought, the 680 has, according to techpowerup, only about 6% better performance and perf / watt on all resolutions.

Also, techreport, which uses a superior method of benchmarking (frame times, 99th percentile frames) pins the 7970 as the superior card.

I think Tech Report invented that method of benchmarking so they could be the only site on the web where the 7970 won a benchmark.

The Tech Report "pins the 7970 as the superior card"?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/15


All of those considerations lead us, almost inescapably, to one conclusion: the GeForce GTX 680 has earned itself an Editor's Choice award for being the most desirable video card in its class.

I could have sworn The Tech Report said the GTX680 was superior like every other review site.

[cegras]

I think Tech Report invented that method of benchmarking so they could be the only site on the web where the 7970 won a benchmark.

Then you don't understand the significant of the benchmarks tech report runs.


The GeForce GTX 680 is slightly faster and 50 bucks less expensive than the Radeon HD 7970, so it lands in a better position on this first plot. However, if we switch to an arguably superior method of understanding gaming performance and smoothness, our 99th percentile frame time (converted to FPS so the plot reads the same), the results change a bit.

The GTX 680's few instances of higher frame latencies, such as that apparent GPU Boost issue in Arkham City, move it just a couple of ticks below the Radeon HD 7970 in overall performance. Then again, the GTX 680 costs $50 less, so it's still a comparable value.

The truth is that, either way you look at it, there is very little performance difference between these two cards, and any difference is probably imperceptible to the average person.

Averages, even min. FPS, blur out how a card performs over a testing sequence. The key to really understanding GPU performance is measuring how long it takes to make each frame over a sequence. Techreport gives important metrics such as the frame time the GPU spends 99% of its time under, and how much time it spends beyond a certain threshold that causes hitching. Nevermind the difference between 90 and 100 FPS, this is where you can really separate out different GPUs.

[jaredpace]

Smart shoppers will look beyond this desparate marketing ploy at the following:

1. Two of the three games cost less than $9.00 (yes, $9.00):

http://store.steampowered.com/app/96800/

Nexuiz $8.99 retail at pre-launch prices. (they only get cheaper from there)

http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-DEHR/de...an-revolution-

Deus Ex Human Revolution $7.49 retail. For most people buying $400+ video cards, $16.48 worth of games is not a factor.

2. The market for used 7970s is quickly getting soft because everyone on the planet knows the 680 is the better card. I just checked Ebay and used 3GB 7970s have gone for as cheap as $400. recently. The couple bucks you save up front will be the big loss you take on resale when it's time to upgrade. (for perspective, the cheapest GTX680 was an open box at $519- still above MSRP)

3. The marketing ploy itself is an admission from AMD their product can't compete at NVIDIA's MSRP and that they need to be cheaper with added incentives to have a hope of selling. If you're spending over $450 on a video card anyway, do you really want the one they have to use price cuts and gimmicky give aways to sell? When the part everyone wants, that will hold it's value far better, is just a few dollars more?

Food for thought.

I think Tech Report invented that method of benchmarking so they could be the only site on the web where the 7970 won a benchmark.

The Tech Report "pins the 7970 as the superior card"?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/15



I could have sworn The Tech Report said the GTX680 was superior like every other review site.



The <1175mv GTX680's (get it?:ROTF:) are great cards, and even though they lose/tie HD 7970 in high end benchmarks, high resolution testing, multi-gpu, overvolting, overclocking, more stressful games like crysis, warhead & metro, multi-gpu world records, and all the 3dMark benches on hardware bot, it still wins the majority of farcry 1, pokemon and hawx 2 testing in devastating fashion: 110 versus 190 FPS. That's great (Nvidia has always been good at low resolution / low settings framerates).

Who desperately needs shills like Wreckage/Rollo to patrol forums and spout junk about the 680 being the "best video card in the world" because they have no fab and no console contracts? Nvidia - thats who. Now that they're being accosted by TSMC with nowhere to go and nothing to do, except take it, Nvidia concentrates money in forum marketing to promote Geforce. Skilled newbs like "Rollo" who are banned at almost every traditional PC forum on the interwebs (like Anandtech & Techpowerup) are given Nvidia Pc gear and agree to spout junk in return at any outlet they access. Once their junk and BS quota is accounted for, they safely return to underneath their bridges at Nvidia/Evga forums.

At least NV is doing something about it -that doesn't say much for AMD not giving a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: about Radeon customers. Maybe instead of hyping the midrange Gk104 show as Mohammad Ali, Rollo might have more success just pointing out the deficiencies in Radeon's recent history (no sarcasm here). It would be easier just showing how much AMD/ATI don't give a damn about stuff like 3d, drivers, and TXAA, that will highlight the benefits of going with Nvidia. Then you don't seem like such an idiot praising a midrange video card as the next coming of Christ.

Since Newegg has recently sold maybe, Oh I dunno, 10,000 - 20,000 PC video cards from NV (correspondingly 5,000-10,000 AMD parts) and AMD/ATI is making the Playstation 4, Xbox 360, Xbox 720, and Wii U which will sell hundreds of millions of units combined (999,999,999) ATI is going to where the money is with their investments. NV has nowhere to go, no console contracts, and just has to accept the price TSMC demands, while doing entertaining ploys like having Rollo post crud to help sell NV cards, while they hold back GK110 as their Ace of Spades, attempt to sell their wonderful Kepler uArch and watch their King of the Castle (GK104) get trounced by a 7950 in Crysis Warhead (per Anandtech Review). 5000 Radeon parts/quarter is not AMD's #1 cash cow, Just like NV's big money isn't the Geforce, but alternate consumer/HPC.

Regardless, Kepler arrived just in time (if you're an AMD fan) or too little to late (for Nvidia fans); too bad Sony, Nintendo & Microsoft didn't get a glimpse of Kepler divinity sooner, Nvidia would have a surplus of revenue and could afford to end its relationship with Rollo sooner than later. Can't say Good-bye without first saying, "Guys, make sure to get a GTX680. It is the best video card of all time, in the world, that the world has ever seen, in the history of teh Universe." Don't believe me that GTX 680 is the best of all time? Ask Rollo - he'll back me up 100%, or read a favorable HardwareCanucks review.

[thegoatman]

I am so confused... were you degrading nVidia and the GTX 680, or promoting it?

[Rollo]

I am so confused... were you degrading nVidia and the GTX 680, or promoting it?

That post was all over the place, if you're talking about Jarredpace's rant.

From it I gathered NVIDIA is bad, but really good, and that I'm probably bad, and some assertions the 680 is a midrange card even though it's the current performance leader. (shrugs)

[Dimitriman]

The 7970 and 680 are very similar products in performance, dont know why people feel more epen about 5pct performnce differences. The only deciding factor for purchase of either card is the price and right now the Gtx680 is going for 500+ wih nearly zero availability and I was not able to get one while in my stay at the US. So I instead went and purchased a 1ghz oc Sapphire 7970 for 479Usd and I am happy with it because I paid less than the cheapest gtx 680 and it has custom cooling.

[The Jesus]

People who quote reviews before price cuts are kind of missing the point. The 680 was the champion because it was cheaper, but now that 7970s can be had for $449-479 new, it loses (especially in price/perf).

The 680 at this point only provides one thing: e-peen.

[tbone8ty]

The 7979 needs some turbo E peen

[tajoh111]

People who quote reviews before price cuts are kind of missing the point. The 680 was the champion because it was cheaper, but now that 7970s can be had for $449-479 new, it loses (especially in price/perf).

The 680 at this point only provides one thing: e-peen.

I would say they are pretty much equal for price and performance at 480 or even 470. Remember at stock, the gtx 680 is about 5-15% faster on average. It loses some but more often than not, wins, especially in the more popular games. $20 bucks is hardly e-penis material nor is 50 dollars. I would also rather pay the 30 dollars more for a non His or power color card because if I was going to get a 7970, I would certainly overclock it and I would like to get good support if something goes wrong down the line. His and especially power color are kind of known for worse service and neither of these companies offer transferable warranties, so selling it would be annoying.

Other reasons to get a gtx 680 is that it is more power efficient especially when both are overclocked(while offering similar overclocked performance to a 7970), quieter and has alot of nvidia centric features like the new vsync feature, txaa, physX and a more well supported 3d implementation. AMD only has 1 real feature over the gtx 680 and that is its GPU compute performance. So if you want compute GPU compute performance, get a 7970. But at 480, the biggest thing it offers for most people is availability(which is huge). However, price/performance is pretty similar and it isn't really about e-peen at all.

I would say something like buying an MSI lightning at 600 dollars(the original price, worse considering the card didn't really overclock better than normal editions) vs a gtx 680 at 500 is way more about e peen, than a gtx 680 at 500 vs a 7970 at 479.


Snip.. watch their King of the Castle (GK104) get trounced by a 7950 in Crysis Warhead (per Anandtech Review). 5000 Radeon parts/quarter is not AMD's #1 cash cow, Just like NV's big money isn't the Geforce, but alternate consumer/HPC.



If I was a videocard company, I would rather lose in an old game like crysis warhead as in the anandtech review you used than lose by 28 percent in a far more relevant game like Battlefield 3.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/13

Shogun 2(which like battlefield 3 is a stressful game) and batman Arkham City are also games where the gtx 680 typically leads.

I think rollo is completely overhyping the gtx 680, but the only reason why this is being allowed to happen is because honestly, the 7970 was so mediocre for a next gen high end card on a new process which carried a price of 550. If you gave positive reviews or positive comments for the 7970, by virtue of its merits, the gtx 680 deserved more positive reviews, as it was better in performance/efficiency/noise and price upon release. The biggest strike as a product against the gtx 680 is availability. But as a videocards, the gtx 680 is simply the better card. Every single review said this and every single review said that for the 7970 to be competitive it needed a price drop. With the new price drop from 7970, the 7970 becomes a viable option, rather than being a complete rip off(for gamers in particular).

[cegras]

Actually, techreport pegs them as nearly indistinguishable 99% of the time. In the 1% of the time, the 680 stutters more than the 7970, which is why at the end of the day they give it the nod in their 99th percentile / $. In fact, now that the 7970 is price dropped ...

[tajoh111]

Actually, techreport pegs them as nearly indistinguishable 99% of the time. In the 1% of the time, the 680 stutters more than the 7970, which is why at the end of the day they give it the nod in their 99th percentile / $. In fact, now that the 7970 is price dropped ...

I think if we go for another review style which can be somewhat similar, Hardocp, which test from from a gameplay perspective, said games for the gtx 680 were smoother.

I would give give Nvidia time with the 99th percentile if we want to see better results, which screws a lot more than driver performance than usual.

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22192/9

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1509/batman99th.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/215/batman99th.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1895/bf399th.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/163/bf399th.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3411/crysis299th.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/crysis299th.gif/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/3100/skyrim99th.gif (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/skyrim99th.gif/)

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If you look at the old 7970 review, if we go by 99th percentile, the 7970 isn't even really a better value than the gtx 580. It ties the 580 in three games more or less where it is tested and only beats the gtx 580 in battlefield 3 by 11 percent. Not only does this highlight why drivers changes much more with 99th percentile, hence why people experience smoother gameplay without the huge bump in fps but I am wondering...

Why is it now that this 99th percentile is incredibly important but no one talked about it when the 7970 launched and was only overall less than 3 percent faster than a gtx 580? Is it because by far, considering all 30+ reviews out there, this paints the most positive light of the 7970 compared to the gtx 680. Where as compared to before, the tech report style review painted the most negative light of the 7970?

[cegras]

Uh,


Our next goal is to find out about worst-case scenarios—places where the GPU's performance limitations may be contributing to less-than-fluid animation, occasional stuttering, or worse. For that, we add up all of the time each GPU spends working on really long frame times, those above 50 milliseconds or (put another way) below about 20 FPS. We've explained our rationale behind this one in more detail right here, if you're curious or just confused.

All cards were shown - except the GTX280 - to be adequate. However, that's not the entire story ...


I'll admit, I had to stare at the frame time plots above for a little while in order to understand why those two GeForces would have a lower 99th percentile frame latency than the Radeon HD 7970, which looks so good. The culprit, I think, is those first 150 or so frames where all of the cards are slowest. That section of the test run comprises more than 1% of the frames for each card, and in it, the GeForces deliver somewhat lower frame latencies.

As for your assertion:


Why is it now that this 99th percentile is incredibly important but no one talked about it when the 7970 launched and was only overall less than 3 percent faster than a gtx 580? Is it because by far, considering all 30+ reviews out there, this paints the most positive light of the 7970 compared to the gtx 680. Where as compared to before, the tech report style review painted the most negative light of the 7970?

I chalk that entirely up to long established benchmarking practice. It's a big, big shame that techreport's method has not immediately caught on. HardOCP does not exactly do it this way.


Hardocp, which test from from a gameplay perspective, said games for the gtx 680 were smoother.

That's subjective. Techreport nails it down with hard numbers. There is no room for contesting.

[tajoh111]

"I'll admit, I had to stare at the frame time plots above for a little while in order to understand why those two GeForces would have a lower 99th percentile frame latency than the Radeon HD 7970, which looks so good. The culprit, I think, is those first 150 or so frames where all of the cards are slowest. That section of the test run comprises more than 1% of the frames for each card, and in it, the GeForces deliver somewhat lower frame latencies. "

Hence why I said most of the games, they were equal for the most part considering 99th percentile. I didn't equate it to a victory for either card in skyrim which this is quoted from(plus the small percentage). And said they were the same. The main point I wanted to point out that if we want to see better 99th percentile performance from the gtx 680 give it time. The 7970 used to be incredibly close to the gtx 580 for performance for 99th percentile, now that lead has widened significantly, the same will happen to the gtx 680. I think this has probably happened with the gtx 680 already with the latest driver revision.

Also if your saying all the cards except the gtx 280 to be adequate, why paint 99th percentile as the see all and be all for bench marking?

[Manicdan]

look at the other charts in their review
its a few games where 99th looks bad for the 680, but 95th looks great.

a hiccup generated less than 5% of the time is not that bad. they use to show 1% increments when they first started this test (99th, 98th, 97th, etc) and i liked 98th the most because it reflected closely what the card is capable of, since just 1% of the game time could have been skewed by the HDD loading a texture.

look at crysis 2 Frame Latencies by Percentile.
at 99th the 680 looks worse than a 580
look at the first line chart where the 680 is compared to the 580. its the first 500 frames that the 680 is spiky. the entire rest of the chart shows it killing the 580 by 20% or so.

they even have to mention how that game shows things bad but is not really that bad
"The GTX 680 just trails the 7970 in the FPS average, but its 99th percentile frame time falls behind a couple of other cards, including the Radeon HD 7870. ...
its 99th percentile frame time is 32 milliseconds—or, translated, roughly 30 FPS—and therefore nothing to worry about in the grand scheme. ...
and its performance is quite acceptable here—just not quite as good as the 7970's during those opening moments of the test sequence. "

you have to read everything in the review to see whats really going on
i like their testing method, but not the 99% part. make it 98% and it should clean up almost all the outliers

[Rollo]

The 7970 and 680 are very similar products in performance, dont know why people feel more epen about 5pct performnce differences. The only deciding factor for purchase of either card is the price

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/13

Battlefield 3 at 25 X 16 the 680 is at 65fps and the 7970 is at 51fps, not similar performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/14

StarCraftII at 25 X 16 the 680 is at 82fps and the 7970 is at 72fps, not similar performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/15

Skyrim at 19 X 12 the 680 is at 97fps and the 7970 is at 84fps, not similar performance. (and it still leads 87 to 79 at 25 X 16)

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/9

Batman AC at 19 X 12 the 680 is at 55fps and the 7970 is at 47fps, not similar performance.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_680_SLI/7.html

Call of Duty 4 at 25 X 16 the 680 is at 131fps and the 7970 is at 104fps, not similar performance. Note:
Later installments of the Call of Duty Series use the same game engine, so this test is also representative of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 performance.

So in the last round of big selling games the GTX680 is performing much better than the 7970.

Then there's the feature set:

http://www.gearboxity.com/content/view/852/33/

Upcoming titles like Borderlands 2 with PhysX and TXAA that 7970 owners will just not have.

http://www.ngohq.com/news/20747-amd-recommends-using-nvidias-fxaa-in-battlefield-3-a.html

The ability to use FXAA in all games, not just ones where it's built in. ATi recommends FXAA in the link above:



Luckily DICE implemented a new technique as well called FXAA (Fast Approximate Anti-Aliasing), which is a process that works pretty much on all objects. Another significant difference between the two is that while FXAA has a very small impact on performance, however using MSAA can essentially cut your framerate in half.

I could go on with the feature set differences, or link to cooler/quieter/less power, but the reason 680s cost more is they're worth more. AMD wishes 7970s were equivalent, but NVIDIA has beaten them in all their traditional focus areas and expanded it's feature set and performance lead.

[OutSider]

Sorry but "wishes" sounds too strong as if they have 30% difference in performance/watt while maintaining little difference in price

[BeepBeep2]

NVIDIA FOCUS GROUP


NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.
Oh wait, there was a post above that...

Why are you trying so hard to prove that the GTX680 is substantially faster than 7970? Most of us already know it is, and even if it isn't, it seems to be obviously more power efficient.

[Rollo]

Oh wait, there was a post above that...

Why are you trying so hard to prove that the GTX680 is substantially faster than 7970? Most of us already know it is, and even if it isn't, it seems to be obviously more power efficient.

What I posted was worth saying. People who buy high end cards often read forums like this.

If long time users of the forums are posting "There's no real difference in 7970s and 680s except price, and ATi wins there!" and no one "calls shenanigans" the disinformation becomes part of the mindshare.

[Utnorris]

Nope. Not that I know of anyways.

Asus, MSI and Gigabyte have warranties based on serial numbers and therefore do not have to be registered and can be sold multiple times with the original warranty in tact. This is why EVGA moved to a serial based warranty so they could be more competitive.

[SKYMTL]

Asus, MSI and Gigabyte have warranties based on serial numbers and therefore do not have to be registered and can be sold multiple times with the original warranty in tact. This is why EVGA moved to a serial based warranty so they could be more competitive.

Actually, the last time I RMA'd something to Gigabyte, they asked for an original purchase receipt.

[ichime]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/13

Battlefield 3 at 25 X 16 the 680 is at 65fps and the 7970 is at 51fps, not similar performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/14

StarCraftII at 25 X 16 the 680 is at 82fps and the 7970 is at 72fps, not similar performance.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/15

Skyrim at 19 X 12 the 680 is at 97fps and the 7970 is at 84fps, not similar performance. (and it still leads 87 to 79 at 25 X 16)

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/9

Batman AC at 19 X 12 the 680 is at 55fps and the 7970 is at 47fps, not similar performance.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_680_SLI/7.html

Call of Duty 4 at 25 X 16 the 680 is at 131fps and the 7970 is at 104fps, not similar performance. Note:

So in the last round of big selling games the GTX680 is performing much better than the 7970.

Then there's the feature set:

http://www.gearboxity.com/content/view/852/33/

Upcoming titles like Borderlands 2 with PhysX and TXAA that 7970 owners will just not have.

http://www.ngohq.com/news/20747-amd-recommends-using-nvidias-fxaa-in-battlefield-3-a.html

The ability to use FXAA in all games, not just ones where it's built in. ATi recommends FXAA in the link above:



I could go on with the feature set differences, or link to cooler/quieter/less power, but the reason 680s cost more is they're worth more. AMD wishes 7970s were equivalent, but NVIDIA has beaten them in all their traditional focus areas and expanded it's feature set and performance lead.

I prefer using one source, consumer based, one setting (maxxed out), apples to apples, current drivers to current drivers...like here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?280109-Single-7970-OC-VS-Single-680-OC-VS-6950-CF-VS-580-SLI

[iboomalot]

when comparing GPU turbo clocks of 1100+ mhz vs 925 mhz of course the 680 wins hand down.

The 680 also has less computing power and is more game driven which helps.

But CLOCK for CLOCK both cards overall are very close on most games within +/- 2%

I think either card is a good buy and buy what you like.

[SMTB1963]

Smart shoppers will look beyond this desparate marketing ploy at the following:

[SNIP]


I fell for AMD's desperate marketing ploy and bought a 7970 last Thursday for $479. And I didn't get a single free game with it...not one! I guess I'm not as smart a shopper as I used to be, like when I bought a couple of GTX275s and got free games. Or when I bought 2 GTX460s and got free games. Or when I bought 2 GTX570s and got free games.

mmm...now that I think about it, I've gotten free games EVERY TIME I've bought nVidia cards following a drop in their pricing. Wow, I had no idea how desperate nVidia has been all this time with their price cuts & gimmicky giveaways.

And what a fool I was by not checking used 7970 prices on eBay. Estimating future resale value should be a major factor when deciding on the purchase of a new high end video card - especially one in the $450-500 range that's fairly new to the market. Plus, had I known I could have gotten a used 7970 for $400 from some guy on the internet, I would have never gone to Fry's and paid 20% more for a new one! Oh well.

Thanks for posting. Your unassailable logic and objective, unbiased language has laid bare many errors in my thinking/behavior with the purchase of my new [inferior] 7970. So instead of using it for OpenCL computing on World Community Grid, I guess I'll just stick it on eBay. Do you think I can still get $400 for it, or has the used 7970 market softened even further?

:rolleyes:

[cegras]

I can do $390.

[Mad Pistol]

I think the fact that TRollo is trying so hard to prove a point about the GTX 680 shows how desparate he is to woo buyers, which is pretty ironic because even if you want one, you can't find one anywhere at the moment. However, the HD 7970, which is cheaper and actually performs better as the resolution gets higher (seriously Rollo, I find it ironic that you don't post multi-screen benchmarks where the HD 7970 is essentially tied with the GTX 680, and in half the cases, the 7970 wins.) is a very very good card for the money right now and it's abundantly available.

That's just stating the facts though. The fact that he is a self-proclaimed Nvidia focus group member and banned from most of the big tech sites on the net really says something about him. If it were just about being an nvidia fanboy, he wouldn't go to such lengths to try and prove something which isn't worth proving. Yet to him, it's personal. Isn't that sad in an ironic half-hearted way? I mean, I wouldn't want to devote my life to painting myself the color green and pissing most people off... that's really sad.

But what do I know. I'm just a simple consumer that reads reviews and draws reasonable conclusions that seem to elude him. What I do know is that if I was after a good 3 monitor setup, the HD 7970 makes the most sense right now. So if you want a single-monitor setup, the GTX 680 is really nice. Add a couple more monitors into the fray, and the GTX 680 starts losing its curb appeal.


So which card REALLY controls the uber-highend sector of the market right now? :rolleyes:



Actually, I digress. This thread isn't about the GTX 680. It's about the HD 7970, but Rollo showed up, so now it is about the GTX 680 because he made it about the GTX 680. Way to go little green buddy.

[SMTB1963]

I can do $390.

LOL, is that CAD?

390*1.0071 = 392.77 USD. Man, this used 7970 market is getting softer by the minute. I better sell that damn thing quick!

:ROTF:

[Evantaur]

i'm currently planning on upgrading my graphics card for 3 monitor setup but the fact that these cards are so close to each other makes this decision really freaking hard

[Rollo]

i'm currently planning on upgrading my graphics card for 3 monitor setup but the fact that these cards are so close to each other makes this decision really freaking hard

It's actually not hard at all:

Both: 3 monitor performance gaming, cards trade bench marks, slight edge to 680, but for the most part fairly even on the 57X12 or 57X10.

AMD advantages:
1. GPGPU
2. More VRAM should you ever inherit $3000 to buy three big panels.
3. Can run 6 panels off one card if you decide you want to know what the world looks like to bees (viewed through a grid)

NVIDIA advantages:
1. 3d Vision Surround
2. PhysX
3. TXAA
4. FXAA in CP, not with Jimmy the Basement Coder's driver of teh excellence
5. Adaptive vsynch
6. Auto OCing
7. Forced ambient occlusion
8. Games launch with CF profiles, you don't wait for AMD to get around to them
9. Less heat in your case
10. Less power to buy
11. Less noise to anger your family and neighbors
12. NVIDIA specific features like CUDA enhanced water in Just Cause 2, anti aliasing in Batman AA, etc.

[solofly]

You forgot drivers, night and day apart...lol

[Sparky]

Just a friendly reminder to check Rollo's signature - naturally he's always going to list a billion pros to nvidia cards :p:

Also noted that he mentions nvidia 3D Vision surround but ignores AMD Eyefinity ;)

10 and 11 make me chuckle a little because it wasn't that long ago that nvidia was the flamethrower. Thankfully they fixed that.

Personally I've not had too many issues with drivers from either camp. Both have had some really craptastic releases but generally I've had no major issues.

[h0bbes]

Some people could try to be appear less biased but then again why bother when you openly admit your allegiance

[STEvil]

What I posted was worth saying. People who buy high end cards often read forums like this.

If long time users of the forums are posting "There's no real difference in 7970s and 680s except price, and ATi wins there!" and no one "calls shenanigans" the disinformation becomes part of the mindshare.

thats the problem

performance at stock is within a few percentage points for the most part, and when you equal the clock speeds its basically a wash, if not a nod to the 7970 due to the limits of the 680. If we were all basic users i'd say the 680 is probably "faster" but this is xtremesystems, not stocksystems. If you're not overclocking you're in the slow lane :) .. or maybe one of those people who drives slow in the fast/passing lane all the time.

[cegras]

Furthermore, the 7970 has lower *idle* consumption, which is personally quite important to me.

[thegoatman]

Source?

[cegras]

Techpowerup. They do measurements of slot / plug measurements, not total system consumption.

Xbitlabs used to do that, but not anymore, it seems.

[Rollo]

You forgot drivers, night and day apart...lol

"who has better drivers" is a path I don't usually go down.

I've never had any problem with ATi/AMD drivers beyond some missing detail due to an optimization, and those issues were fixed promptly. All graphics companies for all tine have had issues with games, it's part of the nature of computer gaming.

For what I do, I think the only advantage I would see in drivers is TWIMTBP makes sure there are multi GPU profiles when games launch and AMD users sometimes wait.

You throw the driver card and war ensues. Fan X will yell "Oh yeah?! Well AMD drivers never killed any cards in 1997!!!" and Fan Y will yell "ATi cannot write a linux driver to save their lives!!" and sooner or later someone will start tossing out car analogies and we'll be expected to figure out why a 680 is like a Porsche 911 turbo and a 7970 is like a Corvette ZR with a tow package. :confused:

[Rollo]

Just a friendly reminder to check Rollo's signature - naturally he's always going to list a billion pros to nvidia cards :p:

Also noted that he mentions nvidia 3D Vision surround but ignores AMD Eyefinity ;)

10 and 11 make me chuckle a little because it wasn't that long ago that nvidia was the flamethrower. Thankfully they fixed that.

Personally I've not had too many issues with drivers from either camp. Both have had some really craptastic releases but generally I've had no major issues.

You didn't really refute me though?

I did mention AMD's Eyefinity advantage- they can drive 6 monitors on one GPU vs 4 monitors for NVIDIA.

As I mentioned that, is there anything about my post you feel is inaccurate?

If not, "NVIDIA Focus Group- we get right to the point". :D

[BeepBeep2]

Again

NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products.
I read the above as "shill"...

[jaredpace]

Again

I read the above as "shill"...

Yup, he's banned everywhere. Still pushing his limits though. *Wild 7900 Price cut thread appears* - ATTACK FAST! 'must attack more, need new sli motherboard and new set of earbuds'.:eek:

[cegras]

You didn't really refute me though?

I did mention AMD's Eyefinity advantage- they can drive 6 monitors on one GPU vs 4 monitors for NVIDIA.

As I mentioned that, is there anything about my post you feel is inaccurate?

If not, "NVIDIA Focus Group- we get right to the point". :D

Look, the point in actuality is that the 7970 and 680 are quite equivalent, *especially* with the price drop. Almost every advantage one card has is counterbalanced by something else on the other card. Discounting how futureproof each architecture is, the end choice is largely up to preference.

[Rollo]

Look, the point in actuality is that the 7970 and 680 are quite equivalent, *especially* with the price drop. Almost every advantage one card has is counterbalanced by something else on the other card. Discounting how futureproof each architecture is, the end choice is largely up to preference.

I listed three advantages I see the 7970 having, and 12 I see the 680 having.

Can you list 9 more advantages the the 7970 has that makes it "quite equivalent"? To me it looks "quite inequivalent", but I'd gladly retract if you can show me this equivalence.

I mean a Bulldozer and an i7 2600K are both CPUs, but there are reasons all the reviews favor the i7. Eerily familar reasons...faster, cooler, quieter, uses less power......

;)

[Manicdan]

I listed three advantages I see the 7970 having, and 12 I see the 680 having.

Can you list 9 more advantages the the 7970 has that makes it "quite equivalent"? To me it looks "quite inequivalent", but I'd gladly retract if you can show me this equivalence.


i would remove the auto OC feature from 680. i hate it because it made stock look faster than what 1006mhz really does, and it limits overclocking thanks to the horrible voltage limit.

its not 9 things, but it is 1.

[tbone8ty]

wow this thread went to sheet.....umm this thread is about the 7000 series price reduction. no where does it say anything about gtx680 and how much you know about it

that fact is gtx680 is still out of stock... and im not gonna waste 3-4hrs trying to auto notify every card at every website, when by the time i get the email saying its in stock, its out of stock.

therefore all points on recommending the GTX 680 are moot until its readily available.

[Rollo]

wow this thread went to sheet.....umm this thread is about the 7000 series price reduction. no where does it say anything about gtx680 and how much you know about it

that fact is gtx680 is still out of stock... and im not gonna waste 3-4hrs trying to auto notify every card at every website, when by the time i get the email saying its in stock, its out of stock.

therefore all points on recommending the GTX 680 are moot until its readily available.

(shrugs)
The 7970s price reduction is only meaningful in terms of it's new positioning against comparable products.

Apparently it wasn't a good deal at $550 MSRP, how would you discuss whether or not it's worth the new MSRP?

As far as 680 stock goes, lots of people buying them every day, all over the world. I just went to Ebay and Amazon and in less than 1 minute found several I could buy. (if I were a person who didn't like auto notify)

[SMTB1963]

AMD advantages:
1. GPGPU
2. More VRAM should you ever inherit $3000 to buy three big panels.
3. Can run 6 panels off one card if you decide you want to know what the world looks like to bees (viewed through a grid)
4. Price if $20 means that much to you
5. Availability for the time being


FTFY. I even added some passive/aggressive qualifiers like you did on nos. 2 & 3! :up:


NVIDIA advantages:

[...]
11. Less noise to anger your family and neighbors


:rotf::rofl::ROTF::clap: wait...were you serious?
__________________________

I've purchased 8 nVidia cards in the past 2.5 years, 6 of which I still own. I couldn't be happier with their products. You want to promote nVidia, fine. But if you're looking for "mindshare" (promo-speak), you might at least try having some semblance of objectivity. Claiming that AMD is desperate because they dropped prices and handed out a few free games doesn't qualify as objective, it qualifies as BS - and I doubt anyone around here is fooled by it.


Look, the point in actuality is that the 7970 and 680 are quite equivalent, *especially* with the price drop. Almost every advantage one card has is counterbalanced by something else on the other card. Discounting how futureproof each architecture is, the end choice is largely up to preference.

Well said. If I was more of a gamer, I might've gone with a 680 for the Adaptive VSync. But my preference for OpenCL performance outweighed pretty much everything else for this purchase, so AMD got my money. I probably would've bought a 7970 even without the price drop. :yepp:

[BababooeyHTJ]

i would remove the auto OC feature from 680. i hate it because it made stock look faster than what 1006mhz really does, and it limits overclocking thanks to the horrible voltage limit.

its not 9 things, but it is 1.

I know that my card never actually runs at 1006mhz unless there is just no load on the gpu. I would hesitate to say that 1006mhz is the stock speed.

I do agree that the voltage limits suck but thankfully most chips have some overclocking headroom and seem to benefit from memory clocks as well.

[tbone8ty]

As far as 680 stock goes, lots of people buying them every day, all over the world. I just went to Ebay and Amazon and in less than 1 minute found several I could buy. (if I were a person who didn't like auto notify)

yah for $200+ the MSRP....

that just makes the 7970 that much of a better deal

[cegras]

I listed three advantages I see the 7970 having, and 12 I see the 680 having.

Can you list 9 more advantages the the 7970 has that makes it "quite equivalent"? To me it looks "quite inequivalent", but I'd gladly retract if you can show me this equivalence.

I mean a Bulldozer and an i7 2600K are both CPUs, but there are reasons all the reviews favor the i7. Eerily familar reasons...faster, cooler, quieter, uses less power......

;)

On a perf/watt and perf/$ curve, the 7970 (at the new adjusted price) and 680 are almost *linearly* related. Spend more, get more in a pretty good ratio. See techpowerup's graphs and techreport, pretty much the only two publications I trust (and for good reason).

Personally, I value idle power consumption a lot. My next card will most likely be an ATI.


Apparently it wasn't a good deal at $550 MSRP, how would you discuss whether or not it's worth the new MSRP?.

It was a good deal before the 680, bad after, and is now acceptable after the price drop.

[nascasho]

I would jump on this card asap if BF3 performance wasn't such a huge gap, and sadly I play a lot of BF3.

I have yet to find any comparisons of like a 1250Mhz 680 vs a 1250Mhz 7970 though, and I'm not talking about dumb single player benches. I'm surprised A few review sites didn't go to stress spots on like Gulf of Oman and Sharqi Peninsula.

[Rollo]

On a perf/watt and perf/$ curve, the 7970 (at the new adjusted price) and 680 are almost *linearly* related. Spend more, get more in a pretty good ratio. See techpowerup's graphs and techreport, pretty much the only two publications I trust (and for good reason).

Personally, I value idle power consumption a lot. My next card will most likely be an ATI.

.

The problem is that even if price performance is in line, or even better for the 7970, the price/features ratio is way off. AMD keeps selling the same card.

Why do you value idle power a lot?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/13

1 watt difference in idle power for the GTX680. This is not enough to make a measurable difference in case heat. With electricity at $.09/KWh where I live, that works out to less than eighty one cents a year operating cost difference.

So you'll give up higher performance, all the features, and lower load power consumption to save less than a dollar a year if you left your PC in idle all year? When every hour you run it at load reverses 39 hours savings at idle?

I don't get it.

[thegoatman]

He leaves his machine on a lot, probably for more hours/day than he games/renders on it. Thus the idle power usage is a higher percentage of his total card usage than load usaage.

[Andrew LB]

which is pretty ironic because even if you want one, you can't find one anywhere at the moment.

Retailers should be receiving shipments of GTX 680 cards TODAY (23rd).


However, the HD 7970, which is cheaper and actually performs better as the resolution gets higher (seriously Rollo, I find it ironic that you don't post multi-screen benchmarks where the HD 7970 is essentially tied with the GTX 680, and in half the cases, the 7970 wins.)

really? It seems your devotion to AMD is causing adverse effects on your honesty. ;)

[Mad Pistol]

Retailers should be receiving shipments of GTX 680 cards TODAY (23rd).



really? It seems your devotion to AMD is causing adverse effects on your honesty. ;)

You've not seen Rollo in action for a long period of time. He's driven Nvnews.net 's forum traffic down to almost 0 during the time he was there. Other forums have been smarter and gotten rid of him before he caused permanent damage, but people get so tired of reading his anti-ATI/AMD BS that they just stop coming. Any thread that is about an AMD card is where he has his party (like this one), and he uses it as a soapbox to preach about the almighty nvidia and their CUDA, Physx, and 3D Surround. What's really funny is that those 3 features account for about 5-10% of actual usage in Nvidia card owners. They really are very useless "features." It's not enough for the GTX 680 to be a great gaming card (and it is. I have no problems admitting and recommending the GTX 680 for gaming.) He has to go a step further and degrade every AMD/ATI user on the market. Most people view him as a troll, but some don't, and that's the reason why forums die because of him.

Now look at the thread title. It says "AMD HD 7970 To Get Price Reduction." It doesn't say "AMD HD 7970 to Get Price Reduction but Nvidia is still better because of CUDA, Physx, and 3D Surround." That second example is how Rollo sees this thread, so here he is... spouting his green drivel about how the GTX 680 performs twice as good at the HD 7970 and costs the same. If that's not enough to convince you of what his agenda is, check out his personal AMD vs. Nvidia list earlier in this thread.



I'm not part of some "AMD Focus Group" BS. I have a stack of Nvidia cards sitting in my closet from years past, my most recent one being a 9800 GTX+. The issue is not me here. It's Rollo. Don't try and turn it back around on me when I'm just a consumer that buys cards that I want to buy when I can afford them. I have no allegiance. I simply get what is best at the time of purchase, and at this very moment in time, the HD 7970 is looking mighty appealing since it is such a great performer, less expensive, and has more vram and a larger memory bus. That's my personal opinion. Yours is probably different.

[Manicdan]

i think its fine for people to debate over if the new price is still good enough.
some value features like physx and cuda, others value the overclockability of amd card and see it worth 500$
and some think all new cards are still overpriced.

[Levish]

physx is just not implemented more or less, only a handful of games use full physx
overclockability so far seems to be high for both cards
biggest strike against the GTX 680 is availability

I've been watching for one and if you don't buy just as newegg stocks them, you'll not be able to get them a hour or two later

[Manicdan]

overclockability so far seems to be high for both cards


in what sense? on air or water the reference 680 are pretty lackluster. because stock clocks are actually close to 1100, and the max people can get is around 1250, some much lower, others a little higher, its only getting 12-15% of an OC. 7970 users are seeing 20% and thats why they catch right up to any lead the 680 had.

if you spend an extra 50$ and get a evga superoverclock+ signature edition, you got 20% more VRM, and 8+6pin, but you still get limited to the same 1.175v that the rest of the world got. which is a huge slap in the face for overclockers spending extra on a gpu built specifically for more overclocking.

[Mad Pistol]

in what sense? on air or water the reference 680 are pretty lackluster. because stock clocks are actually close to 1100, and the max people can get is around 1250, some much lower, others a little higher, its only getting 12-15% of an OC. 7970 users are seeing 20% and thats why they catch right up to any lead the 680 had.

if you spend an extra 50$ and get a evga superoverclock+ signature edition, you got 20% more VRM, and 8+6pin, but you still get limited to the same 1.175v that the rest of the world got. which is a huge slap in the face for overclockers spending extra on a gpu built specifically for more overclocking.

And that's another reason I think Nvidia dropped the ball on the GTX 680. It's cool that the card auto-overclocks itself to fit certain situations, but the problem is that it robs users of direct control over that card's clocks and voltage control. AMD still gives users the ability to tweak their cards at the voltage level, which means the sky's the limit in terms of overclocking. If you've got a viable means for cooling the card, it can go very high.

On a forum such as Xtremesystems.org, that's all that matters.

[Sparky]

You didn't really refute me though?

I did mention AMD's Eyefinity advantage- they can drive 6 monitors on one GPU vs 4 monitors for NVIDIA.

As I mentioned that, is there anything about my post you feel is inaccurate?

If not, "NVIDIA Focus Group- we get right to the point". :D

I had no intention of refuting anything as the pros you listed for nvidia are just fine (though a little funny in a couple cases). You're obviously pro-nvidia which is fine (I tend to lean towards ATI/AMD) but to be quite frank I do generally take what you say with a grain of salt at first glance simply because you're an nvidia focus group member and you've had a beat-down in some places from previously attempting to hide that (Anandtech I do believe). Don't get me wrong, If someone was an "AMD focus group member" (if such a thing exists) I'd take what they say with a grain of salt too. Comes with the territory - I hope you don't expect people to take what you say at face value, particularly regarding AMD cards ;)


i think its fine for people to debate over if the new price is still good enough.
some value features like physx and cuda, others value the overclockability of amd card and see it worth 500$
and some think all new cards are still overpriced.

That would be me :D I just got spoiled by my under $200 at release 4870 I guess :shrug:

[cegras]

The problem is that even if price performance is in line, or even better for the 7970, the price/features ratio is way off. AMD keeps selling the same card.

Why do you value idle power a lot?

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22653/13

1 watt difference in idle power for the GTX680. This is not enough to make a measurable difference in case heat. With electricity at $.09/KWh where I live, that works out to less than eighty one cents a year operating cost difference. I will probably upgrade to ivy bridge; if I choose my components wisely I could drop idle consumption from 110-120 W currently by more than half!

So you'll give up higher performance, all the features, and lower load power consumption to save less than a dollar a year if you left your PC in idle all year? When every hour you run it at load reverses 39 hours savings at idle?

I don't get it.

This is where I seriously question 'system' power measurements. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_680/25.html

Yeah, 5 watts might not sound like a big deal. But I don't see why not. Most of the time my machine is on it's for web browsing. Also, if I upgrade to a 7xxx I might go back to keeping my computer on at night in lieu of zerocore.

Keep in mind that I am also looking at the 7850 price range, to which nvidia has no competing offer yet. Although I feel manipulated by having nvidia manage to convince me to delay my purchase, the pragmatic reality is that I should wait until I see what NV has to offer.

Also, I am using MATLAB a lot, and might go for python or C in the future (scientific computing). Technically, at this point in time the 7xxx series is the better buy. Of course, if I could justify this cost I would just use my university's clusters or have my PI buy me a little crunching machine...

Also, aren't you being a bit unfair about the noise thing? I'm guessing that during the Thermi era you mostly spoke about its absolute best perf regardless of anything else ...

[Rollo]

This is where I seriously question 'system' power measurements. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_680/25.html

Yeah, 5 watts might not sound like a big deal. But I don't see why not. Most of the time my machine is on it's for web browsing. Also, if I upgrade to a 7xxx I might go back to keeping my computer on at night in lieu of zerocore.

Keep in mind that I am also looking at the 7850 price range, to which nvidia has no competing offer yet. Although I feel manipulated by having nvidia manage to convince me to delay my purchase, the pragmatic reality is that I should wait until I see what NV has to offer.

Also, I am using MATLAB a lot, and might go for python or C in the future (scientific computing). Technically, at this point in time the 7xxx series is the better buy. Of course, if I could justify this cost I would just use my university's clusters or have my PI buy me a little crunching machine...

Also, aren't you being a bit unfair about the noise thing? I'm guessing that during the Thermi era you mostly spoke about its absolute best perf regardless of anything else ...

If the 7850 suits your needs and you want one, you should just buy it if you need a card now.

I only mention the 7970 noise because it matters to some people. (it's not a buying metric to me) The only card I've ever had that bothered me was the FX5800 Ultra, which had a shrill mhine about it that was pretty noticeable.

[BababooeyHTJ]

And that's another reason I think Nvidia dropped the ball on the GTX 680. It's cool that the card auto-overclocks itself to fit certain situations, but the problem is that it robs users of direct control over that card's clocks and voltage control. AMD still gives users the ability to tweak their cards at the voltage level, which means the sky's the limit in terms of overclocking. If you've got a viable means for cooling the card, it can go very high.

On a forum such as Xtremesystems.org, that's all that matters.

At the end of the day it seems like the best that you can hope for is that 7970 with a pretty high overclock closes the gap between it and an overclocked GTX680. It also has to do that while running pretty hot or loud or with aftermarket cooling.

I think that 7950 at the $370 that I'm seeing in some places is super attractive. If it weren't for 3d vision I would consider selling my GTX680 and picking a couple up.

[Manicdan]

At the end of the day it seems like the best that you can hope for is that 7970 with a pretty high overclock closes the gap between it and an overclocked GTX680. It also has to do that while running pretty hot or loud or with aftermarket cooling.

I think that 7950 at the $370 that I'm seeing in some places is super attractive. If it weren't for 3d vision I would consider selling my GTX680 and picking a couple up.

its really case by case. some people game 2 hours a day while their PC is in long idle 14 hours. others only turn their PC on to game.
the power/heat debate is always a tough to one to really pinpoint.

the overclocking 'fun' factor alone makes the differences. i kid you not that my OC was sliding the power draw to 132%, followed by pushing the core to 150 and running 3dmark11, then increase by 10mhz until artifacts, and back it down 2 steps. then the memory i just put at 300 cause 350 crashed on me. and im done and bored with my 680 unless i pull out a soldering iron and destroy 500$ worth of hardware for an extra 10%

[Rollo]

its really case by case. some people game 2 hours a day while their PC is in long idle 14 hours. others only turn their PC on to game.
the power/heat debate is always a tough to one to really pinpoint.

the overclocking 'fun' factor alone makes the differences. i kid you not that my OC was sliding the power draw to 132%, followed by pushing the core to 150 and running 3dmark11, then increase by 10mhz until artifacts, and back it down 2 steps. then the memory i just put at 300 cause 350 crashed on me. and im done and bored with my 680 unless i pull out a soldering iron and destroy 500$ worth of hardware for an extra 10%

Even at the 5W the other guy was talking about a a 24/7 idle would result in a ONE CENT a day difference at my electric rate. If I have $500 to drop on a video card, odds are good I won't notice the thirty cent bump a month in my electric bill.

The situation is as contrived as saying "Billionaire Bill Gates buys Rockport shoes instead of Skechers because the the synthetic shoe laces Rockport uses last 9 months on average rather than 6 months the cotton Skecher laces last. Bill doesn't want to waste an extra $1.25 a year, because that adds up!".

That guy should buy his 7850 because he seems to want an ATi card, not because of a penny a day in operating costs. Some amounts are just too trivial too care about.

[Manicdan]

Even at the 5W the other guy was talking about a a 24/7 idle would result in a ONE CENT a day difference at my electric rate. If I have $500 to drop on a video card, odds are good I won't notice the thirty cent bump a month in my electric bill.

The situation is as contrived as saying "Billionaire Bill Gates buys Rockport shoes instead of Skechers because the the synthetic shoe laces Rockport uses last 9 months on average rather than 6 months the cotton Skecher laces last. Bill doesn't want to waste an extra $1.25 a year, because that adds up!".

That guy should buy his 7850 because he seems to want an ATi card, not because of a penny a day in operating costs. Some amounts are just too trivial too care about.

the difference has been much greater in the past, enough that you could see 20-50$ added to your total cost across the life of the product.
these 2 cards are close enough though that it makes a negligible difference for 99% of the users.

[cegras]

Hey, hey, don't put words in my mouth. The 7850 is compute enabled, has lower idle power, and has no nvidia match as of right now. Good thing I'm not in a hurry.


Some amounts are just too trivial too care about.

I currently idle at ~135 W with the monitor on. I am anticipating, with an ivy bridge upgrade, about half the power consumption at idle. Whether I value a decrease in wattage is my own opinion (though you are certainly free to trivialize it). Compared to my 4850, that is about 20-25 W savings at idle. Your argument is a slippery slope too; at what point is idle savings significant? By your logic I should buy a Thermi; the 30 W increase is definitely not that big of a deal in the long run, that's just 6 cents extra a day!

[Evantaur]

The situation is as contrived as saying "Billionaire Bill Gates buys Rockport shoes instead of Skechers because the the synthetic shoe laces Rockport uses last 9 months on average rather than 6 months the cotton Skecher laces last. Bill doesn't want to waste an extra $1.25 a year, because that adds up!".

but if he would replace that cord with 550 cord that would last like...forever!

[Rollo]

but if he would replace that cord with 550 cord that would last like...forever!

I'm forwarding this to Bill, he'll probably give us both big corner offices.

LOL good one